Organic Foods

Noodles, what's your beef with organic coffee?

Personally, I find the idea of some of these companies "going organic" to be a bit of a laugh, because they are going organic with the same mindset they use for conventional products, so they're still loaded down with sugar (organic or not) and other stuff that may not be all that good for you. We always shake our head when we go to our organic market and see all of these pre-processed products which manage to take a good concept like organic, and then knock 50% of the benefit out by adding garbage to it, or processing the life out of it.

"We believe the time is now right to bring the thick and rich taste of Heinz to this fast-growing segment of consumers."

It reads like an Onion article!

Man, am I stupid or what?

BOO-Yah!! seems to fit into this post somehow.

"You've got a mean one, Mr. Grinch!" or "Hey, Cindy Lou Who, I've got a present for you!"

Seriously, and back on topic -- they've got a few organic markets here, plus a genuine farmer's market during the summer (New Jersey is "the Garden State," you know). Once you get over how the organic veggies look (and the hippie vibe from the organic markets), they taste great. Then again, my parents had a veggie garden when I was growing up and I'm used to the look and taste of homegrown stuff (esp. zucchini, prob. the easiest thing to grow in the world).

also, if these large companies encourage organic farming, I do think we'll all be better off in the long run.

Ethiopian Yirgacheffe
Guatemalan Huehuetenango
Colombian Bucaramanga
Sumatra Gayo Mountain

Blanket statements about all organic coffees sucking are rooted in ignorance -- sorry to be a jerk about it, but there's really no reason for organic coffee to be tasteless. I assume that the stuff you've tried has been poorly grown, poorly selected, poorly roasted, and/or poorly prepared. I hope you come across some of these coffees I listed done right -- you're really missing out!

Psychological marketing, methinks? It all looked so farmly and good I wanted to buy it even though it cost 3 times as much!

Grinch's cock haha

Where did Hanle y go?

we've been buying almost 100% organic food for a year now and holy shit it is expensive to do this.

Really a waste of money.

for some thing yes, for lots of things I don't think so.

We got an organic food delivery and it is pretty reasonable. it also means that we end up getting all kinds of strange things and expanding our cooking repertoire. Also I swear I sleep wayyy better since we started doing this, I used to suffer from terrible cripling insomnia and I sleep like a baby now. Count me in as pro-the organic "revolution".

I don't think it's a waste of money if you consider the wider impact of your food choices. If you and a few hundred other people are keeping an organic farmer in business each week, then I think that's a really positive thing to do from an environmental POV.

Also nice buy local, espec. when you live in CA and everything is so delic.

I'm right here wondering if organic raisins are worth the extra dollar. Then again a dollar isn't wort h m uch these days

Still not worth it.

I kind of hate the way the whole organic food thing is sort of like some kind of conspiracy or something - I mean for christ's sake, is it bad for you to eat the shit they spray on normal food and if so why is it legal? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE!!

I don't really get too worked up about this stuff but I did find the following lists from the Environmental Working Group (http://www.ewg.org/) pretty interesting. Basically they recommend always buying organic versions of the 12 most contaminated and saving your money on the 12 least :

12 Most Contaminated

Peaches
Apples
Sweet Bell Peppers
Celery
Nectarines
Strawberries
Cherries
Pears
Grapes (Imported)
Spinach
Lettuce
Potatoes

12 Least Contaminated

Onions
Avocado
Sweet Corn (Frozen)
Pineapples
Mango
Asparagus
Sweet Peas (Frozen)
Kiwi Fruit
Bananas
Cabbage
Broccoli
Papaya

I have that list but I find the least contaminated also the least appealing - especially horrible KIWIS! though I like Pine-apples

kiwis are only tolerable if you leave the skin on

Just wash your foods, dudes.

The organic thing is often (though of course not always) a scam, because in the end it's just a certification that you have to pay for. Ergo, there are a lot of organic food producers who forego the stamp of approval to save money. Case in point, locally, is Intelligentsia, one of the top coffee roasters in the country. Their beans are not branded organic because they'd rather spend the (not inconsiderable) cash on the growers and product itself. But of course, as Intelligentsia points out, most boutique coffee is grown the way it's always been grown, for hundreds of years, which is to say, "organically."

Thought this revive might have been because of the ongoing E. coli situation in Europe (22 dead, major farming crisis in Spain after initial speculation by the German government that imported cucumbers were to blame). Now seems to be linked to organic bean sprouts from a German farm. Don't know how the bacteria would have entered the production - guess it's either faecal contamination of the water supply or someone with mucky fingers doing the packing?

"Pesticides can locate on the surface of foods as well as beneath the surface. The amounts that washing can remove depends on their location, the amount and temperature of the rinse water, and whether detergent is used. Most people rinse their fruits and vegetables with plain water before eating them. In fact, Consumer Reports on Health has recommended this [15].Consumer Reports stated that it did not do so because the FDA tests unwashed products. The amount of pesticide removed by simple rinsing has not been scientifically studied but is probably small. Consumer Reports missed a golden opportunity to assess this.

Do pesticides found in conventional foods pose a health threat? Does the difference in pesticide content warrant buying "organic" foods? Consumer Reports equivocates: "For consumers in general, the unsettling truth is that no one really knows what a lifetime of consuming the tiny quantities of foods might do to a person. The effect, if any, is likely to be small for most individuals—but may be significant for the population at large." But the editors also advise, "No one should avoid fruits and vegetables for fear of pesticides; the health benefits of these foods overwhelm any possible risk."

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/organic.html

the revive was due to my grocery bill being too high - i think actually sprouts are notorious for contamination

http://www.ehow.com/about_5345169_pregnancy-bean-sprouts.html

I imagine that the risk, as such, posed by food contaminated by pesticides is no greater than the risk posed by the contamination of everything: the air we breathe, the water we drink, the lead paint we eat ... oh, wait, scratch the last one. But seriously, we're eating and breathing countless artifacts that likely affect different people different ways, assuming they affect us at all. You can't prove that trace elements of pesticides pose no harm, so eventually you've got to give in or give up.

still, i dont wanna eat poison

Your loss!

I actively seek out good quality basic ingredients. I like to know where my food comes from. I care about locality and seasonality. I dislike industrial farming, especially of animals. Homogenisation of fruit/vegetable varieties saddens me.

All these concerns influence my shopping habits, but more often than not they don't lead me to buy organic. I will preferably buy organic meat, because organic certification entails better-than-free-range animal welfare standards and better-tasting meat. Otherwise it's trial and error as to whether I go for an organic product; for example, I've managed to convince myself that the organic carrots from the supermarket are better than the standard ones. If there's a choice between organic green beans imported from Kenya in the supermarket and local freshly-harvested non-organic beans from the market, I can't see any reason to pick the former.

Doubts are being cast on the organic beansprout story btw: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/06/e-coli-bean-sprouts-not-cause

not beansprouts... not spanish cucumbers.. PLEASE GOD WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT VEGETABLE I NEED TO BE AFRAID OF

killer tomatoes iirc

Green onions.

If you buy organic produce because you think it will taste better, then you probably shouldn't bother. Ditto for buying it because you think it has more nutrients.

The reason I buy organic stuff is pretty simple. I do it because, when it's done correctly, organic practises require the farmer to improve his soil rather than either depleting it or dumping loads of petro-fertilizers and petro-pesticides on it. In the long run, this seems like the only way forward and the sooner we move that direction, the less disruption there will be to the food supply as oil runs out and aquifers are pumped dry.

As usual, the "organic" certification becomes more debased the more it is adopted by large agrabusiness and Fortune 500 food-processing companies. That's why I participate in a CSA-share program, run by some local idealist-farmers, who do it the right way, but who barely eke out a profit because the CSA model of business eliminates the middle man and allows them to sell direct and recoup some of the margin.

So, the extra outlay for organic is mostly going to earnest people who are working to develop alternatives to the corporate farm model. Since I can afford it, it seems a good idea to encourage this.

The reason I buy organic stuff is pretty simple. I do it because, when it's done correctly, organic practises require the farmer to improve his soil rather than either depleting it or dumping loads of petro-fertilizers and petro-pesticides on it. In the long run, this seems like the only way forward and the sooner we move that direction, the less disruption there will be to the food supply as oil runs out and aquifers are pumped dry.

^^^this

also yeah CSA's are the way to go

"Organic" is just another stamp on the package, and frankly I imagine the risk of food-bourn illness is equal whether the food is organic or industrial.

I'm 100% pro farmers market, which I prefer to crapshoot CSAs. You can still get sick - you can always get sick! - but you know where the food is coming from, and you know exactly where your money is going.

crapshoot CSAs

We've bought into about five different CSAs over the years. Two of them were great and the rest so-so. One of the great ones went under when their lease ran out on some land that ended up with a developer. The other great CSA we participate in now, and have stuck with it for 4 years. It's run by some old hands at it, real smart people who've dialed in their methods and consistently deliver the goods. We're lucky!

we're on our third - the second one we signed up with was our favorite but yeah it went under for similar reasons. one we have now is great, have been with it for 3+ years

what is CSA?

"community-supported agriculture". You pay a flat fee for a box of vegetables that come directly from a local farm.

I think they have some sort of reimbursement for that at my work but I cant be arsed to figure out all the paperwork

Yeah, basically, you subscribe to a farm for boxes of delivered seasonal produce. Which in my experience has rarely been enough tomatoes countered by far too much kohlrabi. Personally, I'd rather spend my money at the farmers market for fruits and veggies I know I'll eat.

i hate god damn tomatoes

yeah buying from a farmer's market basically achieves the same ends

xp

More detailed explanation. The idea is that you and others each buy a share of the produce of a farm. The farmer grows a wide variety of vegetables, staggered to produce a constant stream of produce through the growing season. Once a week you get a delivery of vegetables (often you go to a distribution point and pick them up).

Atm, we're getting a mix of early greens and some holdovers from their winter crops. So, green onions, collards, garlic tops, pea shoots, lettuce and chard as examples of the early greens, and beets or cauliflower as examples of the winter vegies. Later in the summer we'll get summer squash, pea pods, turnips, potatos, more greens, with tomatos starting mid-summer and things like pumpkins and hubbard squash in October.

i love my weekly trip to the farmer's market, plus i'm too picky for a psa

I buy frozen vegetables from Trader Joe's.

We've done box delivery (non CSA I think), and just kept getting crap we didn't like. Like more kiwis than any one person should ever have. For the other stuff, it was such a chore to eat or prepare in a way that it would last longer, that stuff would end up being thrown away.

I got no beef with farmer's markets. The farmer is accepting a higher risk in that economic model, and so the prices tend to be noticably higher than CSAs.

We have split a CSA with our neighbor in the past, which was a good experiment. Though again, everyone was left with not much of the good stuff and too much of the stuff no one wanted.

we go to the farmers market on Saturdays sometimes - on one were will find a more crunchy bunch of unshaven hippies. People of the earth. Some clog dancing horribly - but last time there was a harpist - in my book any place with live harp is BONS UP!!10 out of 10 stars

Hmm...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/science/earth/study-questions-advantages-of-organic-meat-and-produce.html?src=me&ref=general

Study debunks straw benefits of organic produce

What an odd study...

Study Finds Cigarettes May Be Safer Than Previously Thought: No Link to Diabetes, Researchers Say

I actualyl never cared that much about organics until I started having children to feed and apply cosmetics to (sonscreen). I am an anxious parent you see and do not want them exposed to bad shit

NPR pretty much gave this study an uncritical toast this morning with the hosts proclaiming they feel cheated and LOL what-were-thinking. Organics are OVER, stupids!

I dont get why they dont call organic "normal" and the non-organic foods "Pesticide sprayed"

and then down all the way at the bottom of the article:

Rather, the motivation is to reduce exposure to pesticides, especially for pregnant women and their young children. Organic food advocates point to, for example, three studies published last year, by scientists at Columbia University, the University of California, Berkeley, and Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan. The studies identified pregnant women exposed to higher amounts of pesticides known as organophosphates and then followed their children for years. In elementary school, those children had, on average, I.Q.’s several points lower than those of their peers.

I mean, hardly conclusive, but gah, what a frustrating piece of journalism.

study debunks magical benefits of artisanal foods

"purple potatoes proven fancier than regular by MIT lab"

Yeah, what a weird study. "Aside from the lack of pesticides, growth hormones and other chemicals, organic foods are no different from their conventionally grown equivalents."

I think usually it is the "organic has more vitamins" that people are attacking

Did people actually claim that?

Why would they have more vitamins, or the other stuff have less vitamins?

right, exactly. I've never heard anyone make that claim.

lol that article is ridiculous

who would ever think that?

You'd be surprised.

Yeah, for a supposedly non-biased study this opening line Does an organic strawberry contain more vitamin C than a conventional one? is bogus.

hawaiian punch has more vitamin c than an organic strawberry, therefore you are better off drinking hawaiian punch than eating strawberries

I have no doubt that organics have benefitted from a certain amount of delusion and magical thinking concerning how much healthier and happier we all would be if we all got sprinkled with sufficient quantities of organic fairy-dust. Come to think, every effort at 'branding' is based on some amount of word magic and false glamorization. Why would organics be any different?

This study seems purely like an exercise in shit-throwing that could just as easily have been aimed at debunking the idea that brand-name pharmaceuticals are in any way superior to generics. Except taking on the big pharma companies is more akin to taking on the mafia, whereas organic farmers are a target that can't fight back.

Isn't much of the organic farming industry dominated by "big AG" anyway?

stuff like CSAs obviously aren't, stuff you find in Whole Foods/Trader Joe's yeah probably

Small ag pioneered organics and laid all the groundwork. Big ag got involved as soon as the market share for organics got big enough to interest them. At that point they lobbied the Department of Agriculture to set standards for the "organic" label which were signifigantly less stringent than the certification programs that small ag had developed, such as Oregon Tilth. The hard core of organics customers still favor small ag providers and still look for the certification marks of the older groups.

Hurting 2 killing it on this revive imo

I still feel like the people who grow organic things are probably nicer to be around - or maybe insufferable - so many impossibles in an infinite world

Yeah it seems to me that people buy organic produce because it tastes better, doesn't use crazy pesticides and is usually local (in the case of markets and CSAs anyway) and supports small farmers/business not big AG. The nutritive quality is part of it I guess but as if that's part of organic certification anyway? Dubious study.

I just spent a week helping out at my friends' organic vegetable farm. It's hard work but worth it. We talked a fair bit about the economics of org veg farming. It does come down to being a small, local business that people want to invest in, but also personal food politics. Which is massive and varied, obv. Like I will buy local kale all season but during winter I buy the California kale, with only a bit of guilt.

a friend of mine who has been involved in organic farming for a long time told me that the organic movement really started more out of philosophical and environmental concerns than health concerns, and that even he thinks the pesticide threat to health is probably not massive. Although that was years ago that we had that conversation, and there has actually been more research to suggest pesticide health threats (particularly since some fruits/vegetables absorb the pesticide such that it can't just be washed off) since that conversation.

>> I dont get why they dont call organic "normal" and the non-organic foods "Pesticide sprayed"

― Sweet Yin Yang ☯ (Latham Green) <<

Organic food can be pesticide sprayed, as long as it is not synthetic pesticide. Regardless. the level of pesticides in both organic and non-organic food is below EPA levels and orders of magnitude less than would be required to harm you.

unless you're a baby. or breastfeeding.

guys it's ok, middle class consumers can still overpay for vanity groceries that have no proven health benefit. this study doesn't change that

it's probably worth it to pay more to avoid any or at least far fewer chemicals in the food so i will vainly continue my pursuit of organic food. especially with a 15 month old in the house! idk i think when presented with the option it's not a bullshit choice tbqf.

Still always buy organic food if given the choice under the assumption that it's less ruinous for the environment and better for biodiversity.

Conventional fruits and vegetables did have more pesticide residue, but the levels were almost always under the allowed safety limits, the scientists said.

Hey almost always, that's close enough

Still always buy organic food if given the choice under the assumption that it's less ruinous for the environment and better for biodiversity.

This.

We humans have a tendency to stress over the dramatic consequences of the low risk.

i buy organic sometimes cause i'm too lazy to get one of those toothbrushes for scraping pesticides off fruit. and no way am I flossing corn.

We humans have a tendency to stress over the dramatic consequences of the low risk.

DDT was used for a couple of decades before the risks were known.

PCBs were manufactured in massive quantities before the risks were understood.

CFCs were used as propellents in everything from spray paint to hair spray, until the risks were discovered.

Dozens of carcinogens have been incorporated into thousands of consumer products and marketed worldwide, then removed from the market when the risks became known.

Thalidomide was thought to be harmless and was prescribed widely, until it became clear how risky it was.

Shall I go on? I think not. I have made my point.

otm, never eat or touch anything ever

You seem to have missed my point, iatee. Allow me to spell it out for you. Neither you nor Jeff can assure me or anyone else that pesticides present a "low risk" and giving such assurances constitute a false argument. Pretending to omniscience in such matters is nagl.

Pesticides, along with most products of the petrochemical industry, have a peculiar property in that the vast majority of these molecular structures did not exist when humankind evolved. In fact, the vast majority did not exist even three or four decades ago. To equate them with "anything", when the vast majority of "anything" has existed longer than our species has, is disingenuous.

Conventional fruits and vegetables did have more pesticide residue, but the levels were almost always under the allowed safety limits, the scientists said.

you can avoid these problems by sticking to 100% processed food like a normal american

almost always under the allowed safety limits

And everyone of the examples I gave above were said to be perfectly safe in how they were used, too. Further, not every risk they presented were to humans, which were the only risks studied or evaluated. Some presented risks to humans tangentially, for example, by destroying the ozone layer of the upper atmosphere.

It may be that pesticide residues fouond on supermarket produce won't do me any direct harm at all, and yet they might present grave risks in future decades, for example, as they find their way into the water table and remain there for centuries. Unintended consequences are actually quite common in life.

dnftt only feed the troll pesticide-free attention

Aaaand here we go
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/07/opinion/roger-cohen-the-organic-fable.html?src=recg

I hate to be conspiratorial, but at times like this I wonder "what big food industry organization funded and is publicizing this study"

columnists are so universally worthless

NPR reported this morning that the study was independent, funded by Standford. And also stressed that the findings do not negate any hypothesis, just that it's too early to prove any benefits, just as it's too early to prove any dangers of non-organic. The data pool is too shallow.

yeah, there's still something suspect about the way the articles on it are all taking the same line though -- maybe independently funded but being publicized by some org?

Stanford, not Standford, whoops.

The more interesting tale to me is the sheer amounts of chemicals required for organic farming. A family friend with apple orchards in Oregon mentioned the truckloads and truckloads of rotenone his organic farming neighbors had to spray to achieve marketable fruit compared to his applications. Too bad for fish in the Williamette.

I think its really important to support agriculture that focuses on preserving soil and surrounding protective ecosystems. I'm not at all sure the organic label offers any assurances there.

Read "commonly used in organic farming" rather than "required for organic farming" above. Its certainly possible to do integrated pest management etc, although to my knowledge this is rarely used for the industrial scale organic farms that supply the bulk of produce at Whole Foods.

Yeah, the corruption of the word "organic" is a whole other can of organic worms.

anyway organic is likely safer right? so why not?

I guess you could argue that people who genuinely can't afford it shouldn't be scared into thinking they have to buy organic or else they will die horrible cancerous deaths.

its not that much more

sure it is, it can be anywhere from 20% to 100% more. You can easily add 50% to your total grocery bill if you buy all organic.

Hurting is right. For anyone with a very tight budget, the premium paid for organic products amounts to real money. However, mainly due to rising oil prices, which provides the feedstock for almost all non-organic fertilizers and pesticides, the gap in price has actually been narrowing considerably. Oil prices do not seem like they will ever go back to, for example, where they were in 2000. If anything, this trend should continue with few and brief exceptions.

small price to pay FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!

just use the dirty dozen list

http://www.ewg.org/foodnews/summary/

^^ just about to post dirty 12 list

i always fuck w/grassfed beef and organic eggs. there are variables though, like it's better to acquire kerry gold butter from TJs rather than the organic butter, since the former are from grassfed cows in ireland and the latter despite the organic label are not necessarily.

"i always fuck w/grassfed beef and organic eggs."

greasy love?

Fried celery and sweet potato is nice.

Jel!? Have a s pud on me

The only thing labeled organic that I buy is milk. I do this not for any nutrition reasons but because the expiration date always seems to be longer away.

Read about Naked juices not being what they claimed to be. I think this is old news I just now stumbled upon. It made me wonder/fear if there is anything really organic and gmo free or is it all just a marketing strategy. Mostly a marketing strategy?

The I start to worry about fracking and our water supply... :(

The only thing labeled organic that I buy is milk. I do this not for any nutrition reasons but because the expiration date always seems to be longer away.

― Jeff, Friday, September 7, 2012 8:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This! Organic milk is always like a month out.

The more distant expiration date may be due to ultra-pasteurization, a process that does alter the taste somewhat more than regular pasteurization. If so, it should say so on the carton. This has nothing to do with being organic, per se.

Regardless, it works out better. Taste is secondary to convenience for me in many cases.

at least my corncakes are organic AND australian - http://www.cornthins.com/

boggling at how many people thought organic=more nutritious

THIS JUST IN: bicycle helmets will NOT make you go faster

Not even if they have speed holes!?!?!

*looks up from power drill* god DAMNIT

boggling at how many people thought organic=more nutritious

The number of journalists/news orgs that believed this is what really bums me out.

Read about Naked juices not being what they claimed to be. I think this is old news I just now stumbled upon. It made me wonder/fear if there is anything really organic and gmo free or is it all just a marketing strategy. Mostly a marketing strategy?

organic packaged food - who gives a shit

But your're right, organic is a marketing strategy brought to you by mother nature and all her life-giving splendor

I mean, who cares what weird shit gets into my drinking water, really.

the real reason to buy kerrygold is their shakesperean adverts tbf

my favorite is the Naked juices that say "No GMOs!" and if you read in the fine print they admit that none of the ingredients actually exist as GMOs

hahaa

wow thanks guys for not using GMO mangos

my first thought was to say (devil's advocate, because I don't actually know) "isn't it possible that they're just using alternative ingredients that don't have GMO versions?". but then in googling it, all i found were a bunch of links talking about class action lawsuits against Naked that allege that there actually ARE GMOs in Naked Juice, even though Naked claims there aren't.

internet user failure, -10 points for me

but anyway, to my initial reaction, one of the naked juice ingredients is "natural flavors", right?

http://thehealthyapron.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pomegranate-blueberry-nutritional-information.jpg

isn't that where normally the funny business goes on, and where naked juice could have used GMOs but chose not to? or maybe not? or maybe there are GMOs in those "natural" flavors, as the class action lawsuit alleges? or maybe the world is about to start spinning backwards and the Mayan calendar was correct oh gawwwwd*splodes*

idk, depends on what you count as modified. I think most of the Naked juices are packed full of apple juice (aka sugar water) and there are no GMO apple varieties out there right now, just one trying to get through approval iirc

btw the "natural flavor is sugar

The Veggie Berry has corn in it but don't remember if that bottle said n No GMO's. I liked how that juice tasted and it did not have apple or grape juice in it.

I once set out on a quest to find a natural juice to drink that was easy to find on the road, something without apple, pear or grape juice in it...grapefruit juice.

I wish my brain wouldn't go there but every time I devour a non-organic peach, which is often, I feel like maybe I am consuming a sponge full of carcinogenic crap. I'd really like to know how much i am, where it goes, what it harms. Hoping maybe it isn't that bad....

I love grapefruit juice so much. The unsweetened variety.

It has become my favorite while traveling.

There's pretty much no nutritional value to drinking juice vs. sweetened drinks. The fact that the sugar comes from fruit is of little consequence.

if you do drink it at all, with pulp is better, but far better than that is just eating the fruit.

^ nutrition nazi!
i agree with you, of course

i don't remember the last time i had a glass of juice. but i do eat a fair amount of fruit and vegetables (not always organic)
but i do sometimes drink coconut water...

Is there an actual difference in the vitamins and minerals and phytochemicals you're getting or is it just a matter of the juice having a much higher glycemic index? Or is it a fibre thing?

"THIS JUST IN: bicycle helmets will NOT make you go faster"

This just in - do not ride a bike in Montreal - the potholes are being used already.

SOmtimes I wonder if pesticides lead to parkinsons disease - they are neurotoxins after all - if you eat themn your whol elife you must accumulate allot

xp fibre i think. also a glass of juice has like 4 apples in it which means you get more sugar than you'd normally eat in one go.

You'd get 4 times the amount of vitamin C etc too though!

Have always thought it was weird how apples are exactly the right size. I never feel like eating two apples or just half an apple (unless it's mushy), one is just the perfect portion.

they have been bred taht way NickB - they know what you want - you are their pawn - they long to have you spread their seeds in your feces

lol believe me, there are enough potholes in Montreal to go around x10
xp

lol apples

that would make them taste funny xxp

I am eatin a mad fat orgaic Fuji apples from Chili today - its liek a pumpkin yo

Is there an actual difference in the vitamins and minerals and phytochemicals you're getting or is it just a matter of the juice having a much higher glycemic index? Or is it a fibre thing?

― mod night at the oasis (NickB), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 14:10 (27 minutes ago) Permalink

all of the above
----------------------

You'd get 4 times the amount of vitamin C etc too though!

***
― mod night at the oasis (NickB), Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:17 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No

i don't remember the last time i had a glass of juice. but i do eat a fair amount of fruit and vegetables (not always organic)
but i do sometimes drink coconut water...

― obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:08 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I drank some orange juice last night! It tastes good. I'm not telling you want to drink, man. I'm just saying it's a vain effort to go around trying to find the "pure guava juice that doesn't have any apple or pear juice in it" or w/e because it's all super-sweet "natural" punch

the real reason to eat fruits is fibre and antioxidants polyphenols flavanoids etc that do nto come in yrou mutlivitamin

No

No?

i agree with you!!
xps

It is wise to agree with me as I am all-knowing.

i always do feel like a big jerk for pointing out that juice is just a fructose delivery system, because people seem to like it so much.

xp

haha i was agreeing with hurting but sure, yes ;)

i actually do agree w you

what is wrong with fructose? It has a low glycemic index

when I am eating raisins I often think "I hope the resveratrol is present and extending my life" - we do have the Singularity coming you know

it's still sugar
xp

i guess everything is tho

eventually

I guess you have not heard my "Arguement for SUgar"

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=BC786BCBA594A7FD!1480

Fructose does not have a low glycemic index, it has a low glycemic index for sugar, and glycemic index alone, like any other single factor, doesn't give you a full picture of whether a diet is healthy.

Anyway, if you like juice, drink it in moderation, is what I say. But don't go crazy trying to find the holy grail of juices, bc it's all juice.

a grail is something you drink juice FROM

I just drink Fresca. Screw all other liquids.

what abotu people who ONLY juice like Jay Kordich and live to be 100 in full stnrigh and can make ** three tires in one day

I dislike raisins, I will not make it to the singularity, banaka is somewhere ashamed

The singularity will make it to YOU

You will learn to love raisins - in time...

never consume anything with sugar

Too late.

Just bought a bunch of non-organic veggies to juice: kale, cucumber, celery, parsley because the local grocery does not carry organic produce.
Again, feel great one minute then like I could be poisoning myself the next.
After reading this feel like throwing it out:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/health/the-dirty-dozen-and-clean-15-of-produce/616/
Depressing.

My not completely scientific guess is that it's very unlikely that you are "poisoning" yourself eating washed non-organic produce. If there's any true negative health effect, it's probably the kind of thing that builds up over years of consumption. If that weren't true, we'd all already be poisoned. I mean I assume most of us grew up eating non-organic produce, since there wasn't really such a thing as organic when I was a kid.

Pretty much OTM.

i mean 80 years of eating pesticides? surely it builds up

only if it's bioavailable and goes into your system, and stored in fat or something

you poop them out, iirc

well for me I'd rather just eat cheese and onions and be on the safe side whrn it comes to blueberries

at some point you just have to live with the endless anxiety that comes with non-intimacy with the bulk of your food supply and be grateful that we have this thing down well enough that there are rarely mass outbreaks of death from foodborne illness

or the endless anxiety of intimacy with the world

Endless Anxiety Food Corp. vs Finite Anxiety Farm

organic latex bodysuits and pure vegetables for everyone

Buy Local: At Least You'll Know Your Food Didn't Live A Life Plagued By Anxiety

Actualyl I get emails from the FDA for food recalls and there is almost never any organic listed in there - its always they sprayed food. Thats what they are doing - shitting on yoru food. Id taht what you want? Food from an animal's condemnation - orifice!?

most of the food recalls are due to bacterial contamination which is due to either wild animals or bacteria from fertilizer, both of which could happen in organics!

You also have to adjust for the fact that organics are a small fraction of conventional, so naturally they'll be outnumbered on recall lists.

You cannot convince me. I know the humble organics granma in her velvet shirt is wathcing her fileds, carefully, keepsg all bastards away. She makes it yummy for me. AS opposedd to thegreat big spikey corporate yuckers and thei fecal machine belching out chips a hoy!

This is being passed around:
http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm

what is being said about it?

at some point you just have to live with the endless anxiety that comes with non-intimacy with the bulk of your food supply

― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 16:09 (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if it grew in my garden, it probably means the cat has shat somewhere near it, AND SHE LICKS PLASTIC CARRIER BAGS.

The GM corn study has some issues - http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-gm-corn-rat-study/

I have a problem with a lot of the anti-GM stuff, actually. It's not that I trust big food to have our best interests at heart, or that I don't think we should be cautious, I just think that the movement starts from an almost superstitious premise that there is something "unnatural" and therefore frankenstein-like about genetically modifying foods.

That's entirely it.

I don't think it's entirely superstitious when we're messing with nature in unprecedented ways to be a bit hesitant about ingesting the products of it. Maybe it's perfectly safe, but it's not entirely irrational to want to let someone else be the guinea pig.

All of agriculture is messing with nature. This is just cutting out the middle man. Eat up.

I just think that the movement starts from an almost superstitious premise that there is something "unnatural" and therefore frankenstein-like about genetically modifying foods.

there is nothing superstitious about distrusting a corporation as monstrous and historically irresponsible as Monsanto

the company that brought us PCBs and DDT

I stopped nieghborcat from shitting on th garden by spreading straw/branches - they hate that , don tlike pussyfooting on it

I guess my feeling about organic food in general is that while there is something arbitrary about where the lines are drawn between what can and can't be labeled organic, a blunt instrument is still better than nothing. Overall I think it's a win for consumers that there is a label that has some objective criteria behind it that they can use to inform their purchasing decisions. This is not to say that organic is always better than non-organic, or it's worth paying the premium for it. But I think that if you don't eat much meat and you don't buy a lot of processed foods, you can eat pretty affordably buying organics.

Sounds about right.

we spend probably $500/mo to feed a family of three, I think

We're more like $700. But you know, NYC.

figured I live in the most expensive city in the world food-wise but I could be wrong

well besides Hawai'i

switching to the farmers market has made a difference in my fruit/veg budget by at least 50% (drop, not increase), and I still buy mostly organic

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/11/15/the-great-organic-food-fraud

salute to a true grifter lol