Why do men hate Sex and the City SOOOO much?

My ex boyfriend always used to accuse me of being a Samantha. Uuuhhh... no! I *wish* I was strong and sassy enough to be a Samantha. Evidence one: I am neurotic. Evidence two: I have a column where I write things about ja22 bois that get me in trouble. I am a Carrie! Wooo! I may now go and purchase another pair of the footware of my choice. Adidas or Chelsea boots, it's so hard...

bad tv is just... awful.

bad tv about sex 'issues' is um... evil.

That doesn't answer your question really. But it's not cos it's obsessed with shoes and pretty clothes - any fule can see it's about relationships, which is great fodder for comedy and observation. Seinfeld did that really well with a light hand.

<troll>One is subtle and treats the viewer with intelligence, the other is for women</troll>

Buffy rules all.

I can't get over how smugly neurotic most TV characters are - jeez, have the grace to be properly, not just tokenly (real word?), distressed by your own inadequacies as a human being! I think this is part of my problem with distinguishing reality from fiction.

Am I getting old and boring? I guess I am.

i think they're both equally shite, is that ok?

Steve (Miranda's babyfather) is a barman Marcello.

Same dreary category though. You would have thought that after 9/11 they would have had them chasing some firefighters or something. Unless that was Kyle McLachlan and I fell asleep and missed it.

And besides i resent anyone who appears not to have to work for their money. If it was set in the Bronx and featured 4 subway conductors I'd be much happier.

The trouble is men just hate fun. That is why they don't like S&TC.

We like fun which is why we watch Ant & Dec's Saturday Evening Takeaway instead of S&TC gaah! ;-)

(God, what would a British "Sex and the City" be like, eh? Set in "west London" and starring Fay Ripley and Sarah Lancashire...)

i have never knowingly watched Cold Feet, thank Gawd.

Spaced I can go along with. I've always suspected, despite the script being written by a male/female duo, that Spaced is quite "blokey". I guess cos of the geekiness.

sorry, I hate fun this morning.

Happiness was prue brilliance.

A bass solo? Betcha it was a stand-up double bass and it was boring Michael Parkinson noodling instead of fucking about with the wah-wah pedal and BLASTING OFF INTO ATONAL SPACE!!

I like Midsomer Murders and Time Team though, so I've clearly no aesthetic judgement in these matters.

NB. if my pal gets a £1mil book advance/record deal/art sale (and it's happened to half a dozen friends already) I think it's safe to say that while I'm so skint, the drinks are on them. In fact, I'm going to YoYo tonight with hardworking friend who has to go to work function before the club and has an account cab for the night, so is picking me up when that's over. She's on a huge wage but I am the one with All-Encompassing London Guestlist Powers, which I've flexed for me, her and her boyfriend. So I guess it can balance out.

As far as the series goes, I have now reached the point that when I see SJP having a Mac monent, I switch off. That's the worst thing about the series.

I admit this makes me want to cry.

Actually it's another reason I like the book better. At least there you find out that two years prior to the story taking off Carrie was sleeping on a piece of foam in a one room appartment, getting burgled and eating pizza because she couldn't afford anything else. There's also a chapter on the vaguely phsycotic experience of doing the big city/ brand new job/ no money/ drinking too much mid-twenties experience.

That apartment isn't in Midtown BTW - it looks like 9th btwn 5th and 6th aves or extremely similar.

It's *emotional* honesty that I care about in my rom-com, and I find that SATC has enough emotional honesty that I'm able to be happy and use it as aspirational lifestyle, rather than annoyance.

And yes, JA22 Boi's solo was rubbish, but it still made me giggle.

Also, Buffy is *really* popular, and that makes me think there must be something seriously wrong with it. Also, a big chunk of its viewers are computer geek boys who have bizarre 'lesbian' fantasies about it. Take it away!

SatC is quite funny sometimes. But I'm not crazy about it.

When it finished TY decided, instead of running everything he'd commissioned eg. piece from me where PJ Harvey = The Hunger Artist, he dropped everything and just ran a greatest hits of his own stuff as job-hunting aid.

The thing about the Jazz chap was his awful hat. How could you shag someone without thinking of the awful hat and cringeing? He didn't wear it on the job did he? I missed (well wasn't allowed to watch) the 2nd one.

"AH so your the Toby Young you write so much about."

Then I shall walk away.

I don't care! These people are NOT REAL!!! They are more three dimensional than JR and SueEllen, but their jobs are two dimensional aspects of their two dimensional characters. I don't want to talk about who gets what killfees in the UK vs. US. I want to talk about what character you most identify with, and boys (or girls) what character you fancy!

Oh, and scenes which could have been plucked out of your life. Comparing Carrie and Big's conversation in San Fran to my and Horton's conversation last night, it was word for word the same thing!

Him: But I've read your column now, I really understand how you saw me, and... I'm scared how much I've hurt you!
Her: I don't CARE!!! It's in the past! I just need to GET LAID!!!
Him: But do you REALLY see me this way?
Her: AAARRRGGGGHHH ::humps pillow in frustration::

And the Buffy massive is heeeeere.

Buffy = similar, except it can be a bit funny occasionally.

BtVS is the most realistic show on tv! (eg: I have never seen a relationship in a tv show as painfully idiosyncratically accurate as that between Spike/Buffy at the moment)

however I've recently discovered that my MOTHER is a big fan which kind of puts me off a bit

shouting at the telly deserves it's own thread. i can't decide if it's something i enjoy or not. probably not.

Kate, as long as you continue to drop the name 'Horton Jupiter' (and I really wish after doing so that you would KICK ITS BONY ASS TO KINGDOM COME) I don't think it terribly fair to moan about anyone else.

(Why is this stuff clogging up my brain?! I don't sit there rewatching, yet I seem to be this mine of Sex and The City trivia.)

I'm mashin the gas, she's grabbin the wheel, it's true to the heart
She rides with me - the new Bobby and Whitney
Only time we don't speak is during "Sex and the City"
She gets Carrie fever, but soon as the show is over
She's right back to being my soldier

Like, we may be ph34rsome despawadoez on the run from THE MAN but we gotta keep our priorities right and have a lil ME TIME, yo!

Now Charmed - there's a show. Gawd bless yer, Mr Spelling...

My talking about Horton is fairly equivalent to your talking about, say, Nick, or even at a stretch, Ed. There is a big difference between that and endless "Oh, but there is no way you would meet Toby Blahblah except with ME" or "Oh, and when *I* hung out with the Mary Chain..." and on and fucking on and on and on.

Forgive the private housemate explosion here, this is a point that will not be made again.

B-But the Kate and Suzy and Etak Kate's nemesis show _is_ the British Sez and the City!

doesnt anyone want to know what Mr Big's real name is? i reckon its either James, Bob, Bill or Dick...or possibly Bubba

Generally I don't think the turn-offs are particularly gender-specific.

That said though, have they bought a job lot of "Meanwhiles..." going cheap?

"Charlotte realised..."

"Miranda realised..."

"I finally realised..."

but like every series I ever see (seinfeld, larry sanders, buffy and so on) I stop watching after the first series or two.

iron rule of TV= after the first two series, american shows are virtually unwatchable.

''mark s to thread NOW! the buffy massive is less massive than i thought! buff us up!''

ha! I went to a friends house last week. he has every series of buffy on tape and he loves queen of the dammed as well (has got the book and all the other anne rice books in the series) (and bloody lord of the rings). maybe he should post here.

"I finally realised..."

.... that this show is shite.

Kate: My god, that was weird, most of the kids in that audience weren't even born when the first Mary Chain single came out
Suzy: Hah! Most of those kids were not even born when I was HANGING OUT WITH the Mary Chain.

I believe *YOU* have been name-check-checked.

i'm reading the book at the mo, and enjoying it so far. it seems to be attracting weird looks on the tube, too, which is always a bonus.

yeah. do you stare back?

Surely he is too busy reading to stare back.

Err, Kate/Suzy, please AIM/email each other or something...? Note passive-agressive questioning intonation on that plea.

Heh Sarah JP wearing bras to bed - this is very funny (peculiar and ha-ha) and will be no matter how much she attempts to invoke 'being a classy laydee'. Classy Canadian-faced bint, more like.

welcome to the 'real' world mark.

SATC is not just abt sex. miranda and carrie are always on the chase for a good (close to perfect) relationship.

.

Sorry I ever started a thread about a TV show. I knew I was out of my depth. Sigh. I'll never pretend to understand television, or jazz, ever again.

maybe I have a chance at true love after all!

"Meanwhile XXX was in the casino assing up the take, and YYY was across town taking it up the ass" S&TC

"I realised at that moment that my Dad knew exactly what I was thinking, and that he had been there with his Dad before him. From then on, nothing was ever the same again." TWY

(I made these up)

I believe this is the title of the 2005 Conservative Party election manifesto ;-)

Yeah, but you have to go out w/ME. A grim prospect.

it does have the best "i am a small child but WAIT LOOK CLOSELY i am clearly an infinitely wise alien" in the history of television

(BTW none of this is making me want to get another telly. I did used to like "Frazier" and especially "Larry Sanders". I hated "Friends" & "Ally McBeal")

Whereas Buffy TVS is a gajillion times more engaging and true to life than anything I've seen on SATC. Wordy mcword word to everything Carey said on the subject.

''Why does anyone even hang out with her and/or sleep with her? Anyone?''

I understand the 'hanging out' part. the sleeping part, however, is obvious. if you must ask then etc etc...

''haha here is a list of grebt writers who achieved grebt relationships''

the usual cliches abt 'suffering' writers.

Yeah, but in the case of a show like SATC what else does it have going for it? Most of the people I know who are into SATC say they watch it because they can relate to it, though I'm not sure I get why. Everything seems so stage-y and forced.

The "true to life" bit was probably poor phrasing on my part.

Pash, I wrote for ModRev mark one (toby young/julie burchill) but not mark two (charlotte raven/julie burchill). Charlotte wanted a hatchet job on Alan McGee and called me in for a meeting, but I really didn't want to do that to him

Already made an executive decision not to get AIM, so TOUGH. Anyway when was the last time I went around telling a non-troll what they could and couldn't write?

(My encounter with Buffy = oh, I think we all know by now. ;-))

bcz SATC can be funny sometimes. There's no way i could relate to it.

yeah fair enough

I think it's do with the complexity of metaphor and depth of engagement... Brian Eno has a v good quote about this, which I can't find right now, about how fiction offers a map/metaphor of the world, and our level of engagement/investment is to do with how much of the world's complexity the metaphor is able to incorporate. (I didn't find the quote, but I DID find Mark S's Wire interview with Eno!)

OT - SATC... I watch it when it's on because I like to see naked people pretending to do dirty things. Men hate to think that we criticize them as much as they do when they are not within earshot. I mean I've had boyfriends that I've loved but if they do extremely odd or funny things to me during sex then I will not let a comedic story be sacrificed for his feelings. I'm cruel that way.

That's it. Subject closed.

''m interested in the demands of "true to life" vs "fantasy"... thinking about Buffy which is in several obvious ways fantastic - but in lots of deep ways is rewardingly true to life. Compared to SatC which in a superficial way is kind-of-true to life - but in lots of deep ways, unsatisfactory.''

well I don't quite whether SAtC is true to life unless you happen stick around those circles. it is one person's account of itso whether its more real or not than buffy is a bit 'meh'.

Satc is not meant to be deep. I mean, come on ppl.

Did you ever respond to my answer vis a vis Far From Heaven?

And another thing, the show, for all it's daring depiction of sex [hype], it's extremely conventional. The show only ever graphically depicts Kim Cattrall or whatever her name is in flagrante delecto/delicto/espresso. The other actors are too squeamish, or maybe the audience doesn't want to see them either. SJP looks like a man in drag anyway, probably the appeal for Matthew Broderick.

It's mainly interesting in a catalog sort of way....hummmm....I wonder how much the wardrobe dept. spent this week?????

subsequent canonisation — and the drift of taste and the strength of the original screwball material — ensured that the dislikeable/unmarriagiable became beloved heroes/heroines of culture

But really when it ends I thank my lucky stars I've got myself a good man.

I know lots of guys who would make it their business to slate the show completely in front of their female friends, I think this is true of lots of programmes though, or the same way guys might slate Cosmo or something.

I don't think Sex and the City is remotely funny though, I'm not sure where the humour is really. I think it's not really possible for a man to say he thinks a show or programme is derogatory to men without sounding like a total whinger. I don't really know what a fair definition of derogatory would be in this context though, so I tend not to go down that road.

Andromeda could totally be the new Buffy, except with clever-clever halved and mysti-sap doubled.

* not true.

I like Friends too, especially the latest series, it's got better again.

This is pretty accurate. Both shows are crap.

Carrie: So I'm having difficulties with [insert sexual problem].
Charlotte: Carrie that's awful! I could never [insert sexual problem].
Samantha: Oh honey get off it! [insert sexual problem] is great! Loosen up!
Miranda: Samantha, you're loose enough as it is!

Shot of Charlotte nervously giggling. Carrie's horse-face looks off camera, perplexed.

Carrie Voiceover: And then I realized...

THIS IS EVERY FUCKING EPISODE! I watched the first two seasons sporadically, until I realized this unwavering formula.

So if SatC is the femsponse to Dream On, what's Mind of the Married Man?

But conceptually I think it's been pretty great: when I try to explain why I always wind up using the word "frothy." Clearly it's fantasy: it's a glammy high-life satire only without any of the satire. Like Thackeray if he lived in the West Village with a fashion-designer boyfriend. Maybe. It's a bit like the Hornby issue: talking about how "true" or "insightful" it is misses the mark, which is that it's a slightly more up-to-date and slightly more amusing soap. I liked it better when it was just another version of previous HBO "adult"-ish comedies (like Dream On), but whatever.

Of the Sex and the City Women Miranda is the only one I actually like. The others are interesting shorthand and occasionally funny -- I think the show is ten times better if you don't particularly emphatize with or like them at all, maybe even dislike them -- but Miranda is the only one I sort of like and vaguely care about as a character.

And Buffy is more "true to life" in its actual content than any of the shows discussed here (that I've seen).

(NB: this window, when minimized on my taskbar, reads "why do men hate sex")

I completely concur with nabisco's first graf.

WHY NOT???

Men aren't from Mars, we aren't from Venus.

Are we?

Eeek - i just phrased that like a Carrie question. I tend to try to understand and get on with males like i do with females (i.e. as people). i just find females who think men are intrinsically different have got the wrong end of the stick.. Have they?

Yeah, they need to work the shaft more.

(GOD I AM SO SORRY FOR THAT BUT IT COULDN'T BE HELPED)

.." so i found myself wondering, which is the right end of the stick...?"

Oh yeah, and sex was one of the unspoken undercurrents of the screwball genre, and bringing it out in the open and making it the focus of every single bloody exchange rather spoils the comparison. Yeah yeah, I realize that that's part of the show's point - de-mystifying sex, giving us strong female protagonists, blah blah blah - but it's got more to do with La Dolce Vita than The Awful Truth.

And it's SO FUCKING ANNOYING. Sorry. (Answer to actual question: maybe I'd like it more if everyone talked at 200 words a minute)

I am male and like SATC (though I feel it went downhill after the first season or two, with something of a return to form after the first episode of last season). I have even been on the SATC tour of New York (not of my own volition).

I also understand criticisms of it. While the appeal for me is the relationship/Carrie/writing stuff (there's not very much "sex" in it), I find that the conceit of the show - characters as illustrative types for a generic column - seems to bar the characters from actually communicating with each other like normal people. How exactly does that appeal to people?

Oh, and aren't the Friends modeled on the characters from On the Town - they both have anthropology going on, fr'instance.

Plus Buffy is actually GOOD at killing vampires whereas whoever SJP is supposed to be playing is a terrible writer.

* ???

couldn't he have explained to the producers that jazz musicians do not communicate entirely through scat singing? possibly the most irritating SATC episode i have ever seen. kind of like the other ones, but that whole stupid-caricature-of-jazz-people turned me off in a major way (ps i have no sense of humor flame me now).

I need to think much more about this.

I was conflicted between the not liking stupid jazz guy caricature in that episode, being kinda glad to hear jazz jokes on a popular tv show, and realizing that yes in fact many jazz musicians I know are quite the characters (none wear stupid jazz hats though).

And I cringe when they get together for important brunch summits about anal sex. Female friendship and sharing is great, sure, but adult women should be able to make at least some minor sexual decisions by themselves, no?

OK, OK, fantasy. I know.

ha ha. Yes - or with the help of ILX.

(I am waiting for the prices to go down far enough to pick up the lost and lonely copy of Showgirls at the shutting down Wherehouse for a pittance. Then I will be entertained with awfulness.)

'Meanwhile, samatha was debating weather to ask tom to tie her up with his scarf and invite the cybermen over....'

It should be marketed and sold, in the form of creams, jellies and plugs.

Anyway, what I particularly want to say is that this thread, in places, demonstrates the persistence of prejudice in the face of contradictory evidence. Women say they hate the show, men say they like it (and vice versa of course) and people still show up saying they don't care if all men dislike it, we women love it, and so on. My last girlfriend kept claiming that all women loved the show, and all men hated it, and she wouldn't change this view despite clear evidence to the contrary. I don't think this phenomenon is unique to talk of this show, but I think it's typical of the simpleminded Mars/Venus thinking of the show that it does attract, among others, people who do think in these terms.

Upon reflection, that's much more of a Pertwee line, isn't it?

Liz Shaw: Doctor, be quiet and pass me that speculum.

Jo Grant: DOCTOR! *giggle*

Sarah Jane Smith: Ooh, that's really nice, Duckter. You've such a way with the ladies.

Brigadier: Doctor, what in God's name are you doing down there?

Yates: DOCTOR! *giggle*

Benton: Yessir, sorry Doctor.

Ally: So (boyfriend's name here) was totally drunk and did (sexual thing/comment here)...
Mary: Oh my god that's so bad!
Murph: Oh that's nothing, you should listen...(regales with a story of one or many of her 3 boyfriends/1 girlfriend sexual escapade)
Jus: Hahaha, can't call you straight!

...(later that night)...

Ally: You know, thinking back on that conversation, I realize...

I'm not making this up and everyone here knows it and I think if you hate SATC you hate me :(

PS you don't need to make money to "afford" Manolos, that's what credit cards are for.

Payless is really only good for sandals, I think. Manolos are unattractive on the foot. I think I'm the only person in all of the Upper West Side who thinks "toe cleavage" is an abomination worthy of chopping off the offender's foot. It's just not attractive. It makes me think of old women. Every Manolo features VERY unattractive toe cleavage.

Ally, this is a cry for help, no? I mean, are we gonna see www.saveally.org soon?

I bought my boots at Payless. They're great.

I haven't seen S&TC since the first season or so, but when I did watch it I thought most of the humor verite was in the details. It is humorous that the "gay straight" pastry chef Charlotte dates recognizes and names the designer of the dress Charlotte is wearing on one level -- ("This is great. Is it Cynthia Rowley?") is funnier than ("This is a pretty pink dress. We stereotypically gay men like pink.") -- but also, on a second level, because Rowley really is kind of a prissy and conservative girly designer. So that's an in-joke that is funny if one identifies witht he lifestyle at a certain level.

I agree with the critique that the show requires suspension of disbelief regarding remedial consumer education principles (spending apparently in vast excess of income). However, as Ally points out, such lifestyles are fact for many Manhattanites and also, according to the news, Americans in general. However, people wear this much more on their sleeve in NYC than in other places -- literally. IIRC, wasn't this the theme (as alluded to by nabisco) of Thackeray's "A Shabby Genteel Story"? Thackeray punished his characters for such folly. Perhaps it is frustrating that the punishment of S&TC characters will occur off-screen, but presumably that will be because watching such punishment, which necessarily must occur in real time, will not make for good 60-minute HBO comedy. Perhaps it's pandering and people do really want to want "Sex and Chapter 7." I blame hstencil.

i thought they were 1/2 hr long

main reason to watch is that charlotte is hott

"Sex And The City? Who prefers my alternative name: 'Sex In The Title'?

It's lame WITH all that URST and RST. How tedious would it be without it...we'd be comparing it with the absolute death-throes of Murphy Brown or 90210. The fact that this time the plastic yuppies are female and 30-something and rich as a Murdoch fails to make them any more interesting or make me identify with them any better than Dallas or Dynasty, or Home and Away or Neighbours for that matter. Noisy mediocrity is a still a sure fire winner. Just call it 'cutting edge' or 'confrontational' and it's instantly critically bulletproof. The sex angle is just another layer of armor, making it easy to put any criticism in the PC or 'moral police' bin."

Never though I'd ever see myself using this kind of argument, but how far would the pilot script have penetrated the inner sanctum of the studio if Carrie and co had been men? The fact that women are allowed to be predators was progress 10 years ago but maybe the next sign of progress to look for is when this kind of naval-gazing from anybody is seen for the self-indulgent garbage it is and nobody assumes it's interesting.

SITC also suffers from the Married With Children malaise: it's hard to maintain interest in the show when you haven't a character you like enough to give a toss about what happens to him/her.

btw wasn't trying to nit-pick, just seeing if i was trippin or not

celebration of the yuppie lifestyle kind of reminds me of the 80's teen flicks (brat pack etc) and their fascination with the rich kids. the fact that i don't really connect w/ these people IRL means i don't really connect w/ SitC. but on the flip side, charlotte is hott

Oh, and I am outting Phil Two Hi. He looooooooveeeees SATC and wants to have 1000 of its babies.

no idea what this ho is talking about.

true dat -- though NYC is the epicenter of said attitude.

this makes me think i'd like SATC if only they gave it the MST3K treatment!

After I watch SATC, I read the New Yorker and New York and look at pictures of the Chrysler Building.

"You can't leave New York! You're the Chrysler Building!"

Showtime's 'edgy' competitior.

(But it has Mia Kirshner and Jennifer Beals, so it can't be too bad.)

I hated Buffy... until I actually watched it when it became syndicated. Now it's my favorite show of all time. It's a show where the humor will fly over your head if you don't appreciate irony and sarcasm.

*GNASHES TEETH IN RAGE*

Sorry. Onward.

Er, how would that be any less surprising than you and others still liking the show?

But I like the programme.

It's not surprising that you still dislike it, it's just that you still seem so annoyed by it all!

I really don't like huge chunks of SATC, I think the voice-overs are stupid, I hate the bad pun episode titles and how the point of the show is always stated in this blunt manner that treats you like an idiot, but I still watch it because about half of it is funny and the Miranda character is cool. Charlotte's eye lift annoys to no end though.

Hey, you're mean. The Buffy thread is here.

I've never actually watched it so I hate it on principle.

my gf's housemate's boyf, a nice guy, hates it. me and the girls of the house and will, her other housemate, were watching an enjoying it the other night, and he COULD NOT SIT STILL, and was getting really wound up, and kept asking how Will and I could enjoy this rubbish? but this is the same guy who, at a crowded cinema in london, stood up at the end of LOTR pt 3 and shouted, 'Nerds, you can go back to your lives now!'. I think he can be a bit of a dweeb sometimes, and the bathos of the utter lack of reaction to his declaration was kinda delicious.

That rewls -- much respect. I really like S&TC. My g/f just bought series 3 on dvd, and I'm glad we have it. What's not to like? I might buy Band of Brothers now: will she be as understanding and all-round amazingly 21st centurily metrosexual about it? It has that hott writer-guy in it, so fingers crossed.

I thought the cancer thing that just happened wasn't handled very well though. Also, it kind of annoys that it's the Samantha character that has cancer. What are we to learn? Be a slut and god will strike you down?

"Sex and the City changed huge amounts for women. Women now have a language with which to talk about their experiences and their friendships. It's almost given them permission to have female friendships that are more important than anything else."

Also, it kind of annoys that it's the Samantha character that has cancer.

I thought it was Charlotte, who then goes all Liz Taylor, no?

I wish people could just like this as a TV programme and stop trying to make it a great victory for cultural studies and humankind.

Alternatively if someone could write a plausible and great post here about what's great about it on a level above it being a good tv programme with characters they like, decent storylines.

I realise I'm being a bit myopic but I don't think I've ever seen anything on TV that I felt was really revolutionary, except perhaps Brass Eye, and even that's just sniggers for us liberals at the end of the day, with a possible effect on documentary making thrown in.

The Sex and the City are an emission on the lives and the loves of four women of New York City. The protagonist, Carrie Bradshaw, cannot include/understand the romantic actions of his new Russian boy friend, Alexsandr Petrovsky. For example, it gave him a dress made by the dressmaker celebrates Oscar of Renta simply because it saw it in the Vogue magazine. Also, he wrote to a French song entitled "the Woman with the luminés eyes to him". Moreover, it asked him to dance with him apart from the opera. It too much is drama for it, and it disappeared. She said to him that she is too American to appreciate her romantic gestures. To compromise, they sonts gone at McDonald' S instead of the opera. After, Carrie told this history with his/her friend Charlotte York, who told the history with her husband Harry Goldenblatt. Harry wanted to prove in Charlotte who it can be romantic too. Then, Charlotte and Harry went to an elegant French restaurant. It ordered their French meals. He impressed Charlotte. Unfortunately, their meals made sick for the remainder of the night. But they suffered together, and their love became more extremely.

Baryshnikov's character so far seems like Big with more money (overblown romantic gestures coupled with total self-absorption). I kind of like Big better as a character as he seems a lot more real, rather than the (so far) two-dimensional Russian. Smith has only had one good moment (when he forgave Samantha for going back to Richard), but I'm only at the cancer/wedding episode so I don't know if he'll be around for the whole thing.

I like Steve and Harry as my husband is like a cross between the two of them - Steve's relentless cheeriness and Harry's general Harry-ness.

so my boss decided to lend mrs adam the entirety of SATC on DVD. I am in for weeks, maybe months, of pain!

I recently saw this show for the first time. It was the pilot episode. I realized that one of the reasons why I don't like it (or at least, you know, my suspicions were confirmed) is the way it treats dating and relationships as this huge GAME, full of rules and schemes and oneupsmanship, which I dunno, I guess just doesn't accord with my experience at all. Maybe there's something cynical about that view that I find depressing? Although I guess it doesn't bother me when Seinfeld does that because everything on Seinfeld is so flip. Hmmm.

ARGH, I HATE "GENDER WARS" SO MUCH.

Kyle loves that comedy dog SO MUCH!

i used to think this too when I was in college and young and idealistic but now I'm old and experienced and know the truth

WE'RE NOT DIFFERENT SPECIES.

Caro Catena della Maria e del Gesu,

Non siamo specie differenti ma a volte parliamo le lingue differenti.

Season Two was pretty good. I still cross the street to avoid people like those characters (especially when they're actually gay men).

the lead characters all became better as it went on tho i think, maybe just natural development, but they all got stronger, oooh brazen even...

So true to life!

Pauline Kael rules.

physical thrill

sitting in a seat for 1 hr, 40 min?

Anjelina Jolie is admirably resolute, awesomely skilled and definitely stacked, and I was impressed by the way she hitches a ride on a shark.

http://www.digitalhit.com/isa/18/isa18-24.jpg

THAT'S NOT HIS THUMB

(i'm at a loss to understand why A. Jolie is supposedly attractive)

Ha ha, they need to explain this with a parathenical (ok, brackets, whatever) aside????

Rosemary, the reader might have thought it was a typo and someone had thrown some Milk stDuds at the screen.

This irked my gf too as it looks false and makes the actresses look vain and self-important, though Samantha is often bra-less.

er, x-post

Who was it that wrote recently about either this show, or Desperate Housewives, that if it were scripted by outright misogynists it would be hard to see how it would be any different?

it's not 'detached from reality'; it allows itself some unrealistic or fantastic elements to get at reality (like, fiction).

not funny

it's not comedy, but it's not without humor of a generally mild sort. it's banter of a kind more common to real conversations than ha-ha-funny.

so its just softcore right?

no, there's almost no sex in it. (x-post - see, it does nothing for Calum)

(x-post - Tracer otm in the first part)

It looks in the blink of an eye like
http://www.soultravel.nu/2003/031010-celebs-NDU/eric_estrada.jpg

(x-post)

it's more than one thing. it's probably more than two. and it changes its tone relatively seamlessly. so it's worthwhile on a formal level even before the substance.

sold!

You men have no idea what we're dealing with down there. Teeth placement, and jaw stress, and suction, and gag reflex, and all the while bobbing up and down, moaning and trying to breathe through our noses. Easy? Honey, they don't call it a job for nothin'.

!! xpost !!

Miranda = Dorothy
Charlotte = Rose
Samantha = Blanche
Carrie = Sophia

xpost

Golden Girls, then.

Would Blanche admit that BJs were difficult? (I have to go stab a fork in my brain)

the rapid-fire banter doesn't do much for me. i like the more dramatic parts of the show.

also, while they're not Gandolfini-Falco-Bracco quality, there's some talent here. pre-SATC Cynthia Nixon worked with Altman, Milos Forman, Sidney Lumet, and Alan J Pakula, and SJP was a Broadway star (she had also studied with ABT during its Baryshnikov years, apparently) who had appeared in Michael Apted and Tim Burton films.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-kass-14-may14,0,3973697,full.column

btw i like this show ok

i'm not clicking on that

Wonder what Kate thinks of jazz boyz nowadays...?

"So it's a show about four hookers and their mom?"

i like it cause it's a melodrama, and pretty well done, although i agree with starry sarah when she said that it's like a manual for how not to be

i talked with kim cattrall one time - she's worked with otto preminger! she's also a serious prima donna

as if that's news

And yes, JA22 Boi's solo was rubbish, but it still made me giggle.

lol, this was actually played by R1chard Dav1s

she's also a serious prima donna

She had a role in The Bonfire of the Vanities, she can't sit on a high horse.

isn't she that chick from star trek?

http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/7/79/Valeris2293.jpg

i'd blap

she talks like rebecca pidgeon in that

i said this in the other SatC thread but Steve seems like a bro

one of those "Hang On, That's..." moments watching Flight of the Navigator with the kids...

Letter in the metro this morning said something like "Why do men dislike SATC? It's encouraged us women to experiment sexually, to be more promiscuous, and to fear commitment! Men should love it!".

i dunno if u are lol joeking but i agree w/ that

From the redneck football board I partially lurk on:

There's something seriously wrong in a world where there's over 100,000 Chinamen killed in an earthquake and the lead story on the CBS morning show is the hat worn by Sarah Jessica Parker at the premier of the "Sex in the City" movie. Tongue

(The tongue comment was actually a smiley icon sticking out his tongue.)

at least meatheads are thinking of the 'chinamen'

those chinamen could've built 1,000 railroads

e which sex n the city chick would u blapp

i like c.nixon but really any of em depending on how im feelin
not feeling k.davis like most dudes shes kinda got that andie mcdowell tard stare and i can imagine it being like fucking a realdoll

She had a role in The Bonfire of the Vanities

Or Crossroads, even.

redneck football board dude otm

Or Porky's, even.

xp

Do you realise if Sarah Jessica Parker and Dave Grohl had a child, it would actually be a horse?

-- Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:16 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

lol

SOOOO MUCH

I'm glad I already submitted my opinion on SATC three years ago, because I'd get too worked up on this thread otherwise.

SEX AND TEH CITY

One reason to hate it is the awful voiceover at the beginning of each episode.

"The thing about living in New York City in the WINTER, and especially if you're in MANHATTAN, bla bla bla bla bla"

I guess fundamentally it comes down to the fact that watching Sex and the City is like being stuck with 4 arrogant women on a really long car ride and having to deal with them gradually losing their shit on each other while you sit in the middle backseat, completely ignored as they talk around and over you.

the show was funny til SJP swallowed it. every ep then: OOOOH, SHOOOOES, SHOOOOES!

ARGH, I HATE "GENDER WARS" SO MUCH.

-- jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:29 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

WE'RE NOT DIFFERENT SPECIES.

-- jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:30 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

i like this show fine.

i feel bad for SJP, ppl bust on her so bad. i don't think she's ugly at all.

xp Damn straight.

I was amused by the show enough that I considered seeing the movie in theaters at some point. "could be fun for an hour and a half" I thought, then I found out the movie was 142 MINUTES!!!!

Actually, Morbz is right on this. The first season or two (?) before she became an exec producer were more real and more fun.

i would rather see this movie than speed racer but....i am not going to see either movie hopefully ever.

this show is the worst.

all the characters are really lame and i can't stand sjp's face

she looks like a foot

It also celebrates the "new New York" (ie, Manhattan) that has utterly destroyed the artsy boho (dare I say 'populist') one

but it doesn't matter! now you can get a cosmo on every street corner!

I'll tell you what I can't stand about the show: how lots of faggots I know nickname each other "Samantha" or "Blanche" or "Rose" or whatever the fuck those characters are called. It's the worst when they order those Jello-colored martinis that taste like strawberry piss.

actually, no, it celebrates the boho new york (which is also in manhattan) too, at least in teevee form, it's just that its fans became associated with the new New York

the only time this show annoys me is when i meet chicks who describe themselves in terms of the shows characters, but thats not hbo's fault.

"oh well i like sex a lot so im obviously samantha"

why see the movie when i can just go to happy hour in the financial district and LIVE IT?

"im the preppy one so i must be charlotte"

i always hoped this and the sopranos would cross-over onto each other and copollinate, shutting up a bunch of really inane office conversations about vanity and masculinity/femininity

this show isn't bad, but the whole ostensible 'shockingness' of the show's first two seasons gave way to dull insipid crudities regarding sexual pecadillos and phony maverick fashion advice.

I don't like SATC but I don't particularly hate it either. I don't watch it of my own accord because I don't like sitcom humor; if you ignore the risque content and dramas, SATC is chock full of bland "OMG embarassing thing has happened" sitcom-style gags.

meanwhile, downtown...

see, gabbneb can be a dolt on nonpolitical threads too.

A BIG FUCKING HAT WITH VAGINAL LILIES ON IT

i always think that i hate this show, but i do watch it when i run across it on tv. i think nabisco is right upthread when he says that except for Miranda, none of the characters is meant to be a fully-realized character, and i am too naive a tv-watcher to do very well with that. samantha gets some funny lines. charlotte and carrie are so awful, though.

i would always rather be watching Girlfriends.

i always hoped this and the sopranos would cross-over onto each other and copollinate, shutting up a bunch of really inane office conversations about vanity and masculinity/femininity with all of the SatC cast violently gunned down.

this show is actually like a weak prequel to the golden girls

they dress way bad on this show

i would always rather be watching Girlfriends.

most OTM thing on this thread

also i can't believe the chicago tribune actually published some douche's get out of watching satc free lol what are we fags or somethin card.

bell labs, have you ever seen the episode of Girlfriends where Joan has been ignoring Toni and they make up at church? it is the greatest. that's a show that knows how to do one-note characters in an awesome, they're types but still kind of people, way.

they dress way bad on this show

-- max, Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:47 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

yes

yeah the girlfriends characters are much more human and seem to be actually friends. in SATC the women seem all too self-absorbed to actually care about each other.

the lead characters are so cringe-inducing, i just feel embarrassed for them, which is sometimes a good sitcom formula (like seinfeld) but this show just isn't funny.

Millions of men are sick about this movie based on a TV show about four terrifying, rich, aging, elitist women who whine about sex and men and purchase $700 pairs of shoes to feel better about themselves.

lol @ this tho, god forbid you date a woman who ages

millions of men are terrified of a movie about self-sufficient, sexually active older women

thank god i got my chicago tribune get-out-of-this-movie card!

millions of men have same reaction to movie their wives did to transformers

Millions of women are sick about this movie based on a TV show about eighty terrifying, rich, aging, elitist robots who whine about sex and men and purchase $700 pairs of shoes to feel better about themselves.

they dress way bad on this show

-- max, Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:47 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

yes

-- sleep, Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:52 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is like when somebody said they couldnt watch seinfeld because jerry wears nikes and sweatpants

I missed the episode where Megatron bitched about Starscream's Louis Vuitton purse.

(xpost)

nah tho cause one of the selling points of the show is "omg so fashionable," its hard to buy these chicks as at all hip when they wear the most bizarrely hideous outfits

except, and what, that show is not purportedly about "fashion", and is about a bunch of avaricious jewish neurotics

in all seriousness, there are few cages that could hold me back from a golden girls movie.

only jerry was jewish!

george was italian and elaine was a shiksa.

this has probably been covered upthread but there was a series of episodes where it seemed like wardrobe was going out of its way to dress Sarah Jessica Parker in clothes that exposed her bra? like she'd be wearing a backless dress and there'd be a lingering close-up on her bra's clasp. i thought that was kind of bizarrely genius; maybe it was MEANINGFUL COMMENTARY?

yeah they dress kinda bad on seinfeld
anyway that wasn't THE REASON i don't watch SATC, it's just one of the many things that falls under my "all the characters are lame" gripe above

xpost to ethan

also i can't believe the chicago tribune actually published some douche's get out of watching satc free lol what are we fags or somethin card.

I can. Kass is awful. What's worse is that he's Royko's replacement.

dennis nedry was a polack

This is quite personal, but I really hated Carrie's character in the last couple episodes, moving to Paris and being a complete and utter twat about it, foregoing an awesome opportunity so she could remain in her little parochial shell of Manhattanite certainties, pushing away Baryshnikov for Chris fucking Noth! I mean, c'mon. She lives in manhattan and do we ever see her go to a museum or to a performance or to a concert? Maybe if Charlotte drags her somehwere, but generally it's all about fancy restaurant openings and what kinds of shoes she can wear with her batshit ensemble.

I didn't hate Mirand's character arc, or Chralotte's somehwat facile beauty and the beast one or even Samantha's, but by the end of the show, I was happy for Baryshnikov's character for dodging a bullet.

Okay seriously, the writing on "Girlfirends" sucks.

jerry wears nikes and sweatpants

Not quite.

JERRY: Again with the sweatpants?
GEORGE: What? I'm comfortable.
JERRY: You know the message you're sending out to the world with these sweatpants? You're telling the world, "I give up. I can't compete in normal society. I'm miserable, so I might as well be comfortable."

Girlfriends has not been good this season, but it was in the past! i mean, it's totally sitcommy, but great.

xpost to Dan

isn't high fashion = bizarrely hideous outfits?

The purportedly Gentile characters on Seinfeld "read" as Jewish. Jason Alexander and Jerry Stiller, COME ON.

The purportedly Gentile characters on Seinfeld "read" as Jewish

otm

i only watch girlfriends now for joan + william lolz

btw jason alexander + julia louis dreyfus are jewish btw

yeah, william is never not funny.

lmbo at clowning him for being a republican

yeah but the CHARACTERS weren't jewish. everyone on tv is actually jewish.

btw sjp and are horseface are half-jewish btw

george's mom was jewish, his dad was italian

btw sjp and are horseface are half-jewish btw

-- gabbneb, Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:07 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

lol gabbnebot malfunction

maybe you should turn down the semitic dial on your set?

I remember the day I admitted to myself that I was only watching "Girlfriends" because TJill Marie Jones is smokin' hot. It was while watching the first episode after she left.

i thought the costanzas were supposed to be jewish?

Dan, i think Jill Marie Jones took some writers with her or something! the show started to suck when she left. also, Toni was totally necessary as a character and now there's too much Lynn.

i just could never understand why the male characters were attracted to carrie. she is so whiny and needy and shallow and talks like a teenager even though she is 45 or whatever.

Costanza = Italian

x-post ^^^^ Yes.

This is quite personal, but I really hated Carrie's character in the last couple episodes, moving to Paris and being a complete and utter twat about it, foregoing an awesome opportunity so she could remain in her little parochial shell of Manhattanite certainties, pushing away Baryshnikov for Chris fucking Noth! I mean, c'mon. She lives in manhattan and do we ever see her go to a museum or to a performance or to a concert? Maybe if Charlotte drags her somehwere, but generally it's all about fancy restaurant openings and what kinds of shoes she can wear with her batshit ensemble.

maybe you're right, but this demands more realism/background color than the show allows. it's a cartoon that was increasingly written for non-new yorkers, and there was little in the way of high culture about it. yes, baryshnikov's character was supposed to be more broad-minded than carrie (sort of; the implication was that he was also closed-minded in a sense), but he was also supposed to be a dick.

Carrie is Hell embodied in a walking self-involved trainwreck nightmare. Charlotte at least was pretty enough to justify being all about herself and Samantha and Miranda were successful enough to distract you from their self-involvement; Carrie was just... ugh.

xp: thats why SJP was better on Square Pegs!

Close yr eyes and listen to Jerry Stiller: "SERENITY NOW!" As Jewish as Katz's Deli.

lol if Barysh's character was supposed to be a dick, the writers were even worse than the writers for "Girlfriends".

maybe you guys who don't like sjp should go fuck christina ricci and her michael jackson nose

it's a cartoon that was increasingly written for non-new yorkers

you're getting at something here, but i'm not sure what it is.

gabb, i love ya

I like SJP a lot; I hate Carrie.

Also wtf does Christina Ricci have to do with anything?

i wasn't talking about carrie's appearance, just her shrill personality.

jaymc is right. Jerry was all about the tucked-in polo shirts, tight jeans, and white tennis shoes. He was the "normal" one in the early 90s, I guess. Kramer was supposed to look weird, but in retrospect he's the most stylish male character on the show.

which is like the taste of aluminum foil in a sandwich

(xp)

I wish that wasn't an xp.

didnt baryshnikov hit her in the last episode, or something?

yeah, but stylishly

what a fucker

sort of baffled by the dudes being like "why would she give up this guy" when the obvious answer is "because hes abusive"

uh, and annoying

MY FRIEND WHO HAD CANCER DIED

ok that's from the show i wasn't just saying that

sort of baffled by the dudes being like "why would she give up this guy" when the obvious answer is "because hes abusive"

I think it's because no one remembered that he hit her, which says a lot about how much attention people were paying to the show by that point and how irritated they were with Carrie Bradshaw to begin with. Which, you know, goes back to the writing not being that good/memorable.

i liked the writing a lot, until the 2nd half of the last season which was sappy drivel.

carrie's and miranda's fight over her decision to leave for Paris in that last run of episodes was well-written. it stood out, because i never thought that show was about the writing. that scene was well-acted, too.

yeah that was great. i've been there.

to paris?

no! in such a fight with a friend

Paris is awesome, dude; you should go sometime.

was your friend named paris?

PARIS HILTON

ramzi whatever you do dont go to paris with baryshnikov!

Paris Hilton is not awesome.

i'd leave an abusive barishnykov for paris hilton, no doubt

i won't max! ugh. i hate him

no she's not awesome, did you see that long hair thing she did recently? like LONG

I guess fundamentally it comes down to the fact that watching Sex and the City is like being stuck with 4 arrogant women on a really long car ride and having to deal with them gradually losing their shit on each other while you sit in the middle backseat, completely ignored as they talk around and over you.

SO OTM.

Sitting on the subway you can see a group of 4 girls and tell they're all thinking to themselves, "we're like, so Sex and the City"

I bet Ned and Dan feel that way too.

ladies and gentlemen, burt_stanton

this happens all the time. it even happens with me and my friends. does that make me an ugly person?

just inappropriately dressed

Where do you live mookieproof, Bumfuck USA?

ZING!

someone shop this pls thx

http://991.com/newGallery/George-Michael-Ladies--Gentlemen-350188.jpg

ladies and gentlemen, burt_stanton

Let me rephrase. They had to write that Baryshnikov's character hit her (despite it seeming out of character and forced) so that she could end up with Big and the non NYers that they were writing to (as Gabb says above) wouldn't be offended. It was cheap and it stank of bad faith to me.

also bad writing

dramaturgically speaking, forced choice =/ choice

it would be awesome in the sex in the city movie if they all are killed by vampire dinosaurs.

prada-wearing dinosaurs

ok that's kinda funny

The show sucked because Vanessa Huxtable was never invited to be part of "the gang."

http://www.yardwear.net/blog/content/binary/banksy-la1.jpg

wowww

Sitting on the subway you can see a group of 4 girls and tell they're all thinking to themselves, "we're like, so Sex and the City"

-- burt_stanton, Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:28 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I bet Ned and Dan feel that way too.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:29 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

and BIG HOOS sits on the subway with his fish named Louis Jagger, looking at strangers and thinking "you're such a Ned" and "oh you're definitely a Dan Perry".

Where do you live mookieproof, Bumfuck USA?

lol no

Bumfuck Gardens!

"I'm like Carrie cuz I leave my top on when I have sex"

"i'm like carrie because i have a lot of credit card debt"

"i'm like charlotte because I die in the movie of a UTI."

oh so it's not Big, eh?

also bad writing

dramaturgically speaking, forced choice =/ choice

And they still, after wrapping up years of back and forth about Carrie and Big, want me to shell out money to see a movie? Unless it's a bleak story of his alcohol related erectile dysfunction and her compensatory spiralling out of control in a flurry of compulsive shopping ending in them both driving off a cliff onto a TJ Maxx's in a middling suburb, it had BETTER be a 15 minute short about them all getting devoured by vampire dinosaurs or Anna Wintour as a zombie or something, and somebody had better be drowned in a butt of Malmsey wine cosmopolitans.

When cameras finally started rolling in New York City in September, the cast and crew figured they'd have to deal with the occasional group of curious passersby but nothing the production's two security guards couldn't handle. Whoops. ''On my first day, we all had to walk down the street together, and there were hundreds of people on Park Avenue, watching us,'' says Nixon, 42. ''It was daunting.'' It also wreaked havoc on the schedule. ''It took two to three times as long to shoot,'' says Parker. ''It's flattering that anybody still cares about these characters. But it's like an amoeba — ever-growing and out of control.''

hey, a movie comedy about irritating straights that's LONGER than Knocked Up!

you've been waiting months to write that, haven't you?

no, I never imagined anyone would have the chutzpah...

somehow its not surprising that sex in the city is a hot button issue with the dudes of ilx.

i know

but i am little surprised it's gone on for this long today, i feel this has been done

maybe not.

Irritating Straits

I'm flying out to London to see the premiere!!!!!!!!!!!

...which was 3 days ago

haha

getting mad about this show is zzz. its like complaining about starbucks or the suburbs or something. you are all very unique holden caulfields

it's true. complaining about starbucks is so 90s.

Oh well, you can tell how much I follow this shit. and complaining about people being holden caulfields is the most holden caulfield thing you can do.

what shows do you watch on tv?

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/6704/satcsignsac3.jpg

I'm so blasé about you guys being blasé about deej being blasé about stuff. Also max did the same thing better in that Phil Collins thread on ILM.

this show is Good