"Into the Wild" by Jon Krakauer

krakauer's book on everest — is it call "into thin air"? — is also very good

The ill-fated Chris "Alexander Supertramp" McCandless

Excellent book, and totally riveting. My wife just picked up the new one by Krakauer, and I will read it when she's done.

The movie trailer is on myspace. Looks good!
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2038412085

I loved "Into The Wild," with one reservation—the long tangent about Krakauer's own rock-climbing adventure.

this was my favorite part!

Totally classic - I once took randomly took this into a student center bathroom stall with me and wound up reading over half of it in the stall.

...so anyone seen this?

(I have to say, not having read the book but having skimmed Wikipedia, that McCandless kinda sounds like a self-important dork without common sense. Then again this might be my Eagle Scout years coming to the fore, ie, "What kind of feeb goes off to the Alaskan wilderness with almost no supplies and no planning around emergency contact fallback?" But what stance does Krakauer take?)

The book makes him out to be more of space-y idealist who just got very unlucky.

this book really spooked me. They key to the movie will be leaving open that grey area between upperclass clueless kid dies in an abandoned bus vs tragic Romantic/idealist. Not overly sympathetic, but not cynical.

Speaking of boneheads-in-nature movies, we just saw "Deep Water." Fantastic.

Yeah actually it's not clear cut at all, but Krakauer does go to pretty extensive lengths to explain that if not for a couple of appalling strokes of bad luck and a poor assumption or two that McCandless would likely have lived and far from the ignorant dolt that he was portrayed.

But there was also the stuff with the Alaska locals who thought he was basically committing suicide by going into the woods with what he had - small caliber gun, no cold weather gear, etc.

I don't know if he was an ignorant dolt, but he kind of came across as too stubborn and idealistic at the expense of practical reality. The taking a canoe to the ocean part in the book was kind of the same thing - just not realizing what the facts of the situation were and thinking he could make it if he just tried hard enough and persevered.

I just read this book in July and for some reason had never really heard of it before. Right after I finished I heard about the film. This same thing happened to me with "No Country For Old Men" earlier this year.

The movie does not seem to be the book:

Penn has followed Krakauer's telling of McCandless' life with considerable fidelity, but he's also made critical changes in organization and tone, changes that should have been fatal but end up being unexpectedly affecting on screen.

For though Krakauer was enormously sympathetic to McCandless, he is too good a reporter not to view his subject with dispassion. Penn's portrait, by contrast, is completely congratulatory. He focuses almost entirely on McCandless' sweetness and idealism, emphasizing the largeness of his spirit in an attempt to mythologize him as an avatar of advanced consciousness.

In line with this, though Krakauer tells us up front that McCandless died, Penn postpones this knowledge till the very end of the film. Even the cover text of the bestselling paperback has been changed, and a sentence talking about McCandless' demise has been deftly removed for the movie tie-in edition. Penn has written a voice-over for McCandless' devoted sister Carine (Jena Malone) to deepen our emotional connection, and he also divides his material into sections with titles such as "Manhood," "Family" and "Getting of Wisdom," all in an attempt to convince us that McCandless lived a rich, full life despite his youthful death.

Looking upthread I'm actually kinda surprised (at least given more recent posts) that nobody's raised what seems like an obvious comparison point, at least offhand -- Timothy Treadwell, the Grizzly Man guy.

Penn might view Treadwell as an example of the triumph of the human spirit.

Hallmark Hall of Fame presents...

i haven't read any of these!

im seeing this mon night

I don't know you, River Wolf, but from your posts on here I think you would really like these books.

Wait, are there more than "Into Thin Air," "Under the Banner of Heaven," and "Into the Wild"? Anyway, all 3 of those are great reads.

self-important dork without common sense

Evidently, Penn's portrayal (I haven't seen it yet) does not reflect this perception, which is a shame, as it only further deifies McCandless and clouds Krakauer's telling.

i have only read into thin air. i keep meaning to do into the wild, but i always forget!!! i absolutely loved into thin air, though. there is a book by another from that expedition that is utter bullshit and kind of hilarious reading in comparison.

Weird question, but I work in Brookline, MA and Krakauer came up as he was born here. Does anyone know if he still lives in the Boston area? I suspect not, but there were differing opinions.

... the man ... the myth ...

under the banner of heaven is really terrific

just saw the movie. I thought it was done incredibly well, there were only one or too moments when I thought Penn was getting a bit didactic;. Excellent performances all around. The narration by Sharon Olds was a wonderful treat.

Wait, are there more than "Into Thin Air," "Under the Banner of Heaven," and "Into the Wild"?

he wrote for Outside magazine for years before the books

Sounds like Penn has taken the tragic Romantic/idealist tack -- which I don't nec dismiss, but there is reportedly TONS OF EDDIE VEDDER on the soundtrack! auggghhhh!

When I saw the trailer, I thought it would be a must-see if river wolf played the lead. (tho Emile Hirsch is fetching)

well i WAS a child actor, morbs

this movie sounds terrible

I didn't know that, RW!

I don't think I'll enjoy the PennVedderoverdoneness of this, but I'm looking forward to it anyway.

I thought the book was quite good and while Krakauer was clearly sympathetic to the kid's idealism, he didn't pull any punches when it came to pointing out the stupid things he did or how he was oblivious to some of the consequences of his actions. Penn making a hero out of him sounds kinda nauseating.

it DID make me think of Grizzly Man - can't imagine Penn besting Herzog.

except Herzog's take on that screaming closet queen grizzly man verged on the heroic as well.

i got bored of the book because i'm very interested in wilderness but not in its signification as EXTREME or exploring the psychology of same. also because he just wasn't that interesting a guy, i guess. i just want to see the scenery.

I dunno about that Morbz - Herzog's whole final speech ("for me there is no world of the bears, just a tendency to violence and a vague interest in food" or something along those lines) is great and would point to the contrary, that he doesn't exactly sympathize so much with Grizzly Man as much as marvel at his general obliviousness.

(honestly, whenever I think of Herzog that "for me there is no world of the bears" line springs to mind and cracks me up)

there is reportedly TONS OF EDDIE VEDDER on the soundtrack

i think it's 100% eddie vedder. I've heard snippets. The lyrics are as painful as they come.

and yeah, i don't think herzog made too much unnecessary fuss about treadwell. He certainly left in all the bits where people were calling him a fool and saying he got what was coming to him.

herzog and treadwell and thompson are a lot more interesting than penn and supertramp and vedder, but i'll bet into the wild is going to be a lot prettier and maybe more culturally salient than grizzly man

Penn is pretty variable as a director, The Pledge being the best I've seen.

hey, he really did a pretty good job with this. well-aided and abetted by his lead and maybe even moreso the supporting cast (excepting the family) - vince vaughn was a joy, this kristen stewart girl is pretty o_O, for once (ok maybe twice) i actually really liked catherine keener, it took a long time for me to remember i was watching deep throat, and oh boy introducing brian dierker. while i wasn't always comfortable with its ecstatic truthiness choices (and cringed at dude fording river in jeans and wellies, though maybe he did), i'm not sure making him more of an explicit dick rather than an oblivious one would actually have made for a better film. and while it's got a fair amount of hollywoodism, and not exactly a light hand ('flash flood area'), there's, well, a fair amount of soul in there too, even from eddie v, who does only about one song too many. it's probably inaccurate to call it the crux here, but there's one really great song in this that's neither written nor sung by EV, and i thought it was worth the price of admission.

not that i really paid attention before, but stephanie zacharek's calling this thing "essentially humorless" officially puts me off her.

This was really great. I don't think that it completely dodged the more questionable aspects of McCandless either - he gets lots of sage advice that he basically ignores. (Also note the sharply divided critical reactions - down almost exactly the same lines as the book.)

Everyone's talking about Hal Holbrook's role, but it's Catherine Keener that really killed me - especially when you can see her tearing up behind her shades. And hey, Vince Vaughn can act!

the big problem with this off the bat was the s/t

but the la times-er, kenneth turan, who says "Penn's portrait, by contrast, is completely congratulatory" is talking out of his ass.

it's practically narrated by his sister, and it's... not congratulatory! the film is affecting even though he's a fool, but there's no way you can see it and not feel it's a stupid waste.

there is reportedly TONS OF EDDIE VEDDER on the soundtrack! auggghhhh!

i actually really like the soundtrack album...

there's no way you can see it and not feel it's a stupid waste

otm, but the intention is that you also understand and appreciate what he was after, which appears to have failed

Apparently parts of the bus are turning up on eBay
http://thehendricksreport.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/chris-mccandless-bus-142-theft-gets-deepersean-penn-chimes-in/

Penn and Krakauer visit the bus on their "Iconoclasts" episdoe and comment on stuff going missing since their last visit

Anyway, it looks like the locals are going to haul the bus out of there because they're tired of fishing McCandless pilgrims/tourists out of the wilderness.

Alaskans tired of rescuing pilgrims in the wild

i understood what he was after... but in the same way i understand why kids in teen movies act the way they do. he was able to enact an adolescent fantasy. i haven't read review one of this film, and i was surprised by it. sean penn has always struck me as an odd kind of leftist -- ie one who likes the maverick image, the lone guy up against the suits. that's the auteur-in-hollywood fantasy and his 'tood always smacked of that, and to me it's a teenage outlook on the world, or the business.

though the film sympathized with him -- growing up is hard -- i thought making it kind of about his sister balanced that. also the 'panic room' chick's character -- both were strong. the film is herzogian but i think herzog believes in the romantic BS more than penn.

His sister's narration was one of the surprising joys of the film, both for its unconventional source and usage and for its delivery.

For ages I was thinking "Catherine Keener should really win an award for this" and then Hal Holbrook turned up and overshadowed even her. They should both win.

And Jeez, that whole section on the slabs was just so wonderful. Kristen Stewart's role as Tracy just broke my heart.

(female narration about the protagonist was the first thing to remind me of Terrence Malick, before all the man in nature stuff hit me, though I don't think Penn quite has the focus on landscape Malick does)

i understood what he was afte

no you obviously didn't

ok smart guy, explain.

I haven't read the book or any articles, but I thought the film painted quite an ambiguous picture of him. Obviously he's this inspirational, romantic figure, but it also made him out to be very selfish and self-indulgent.

I wouldn't say "selfish" so much as too trusting of his reckless, rebellious instincts.

My favorite US film of the year so far along with I'm Not There.

Did Hirsch not get C Bale-style attention for wasting to a bony body just he's less of a name? Scarier was watching Holbrook walk up that hill; I hope he was acting, cuz I'd hate to see him climb the stairs at the Oscars like that.

want to see this, but i can't stand emile hirsch (in the two or three things i've seen him in, alphadog and alter boys)....

He is very good in it, and I didn't care for those movies either. It was appropriate casting, I think.

That's so weird. I just finished watching this about 30 minutes ago.

Not at all with you on it being a supergreat film, but Hal Holbrook is something to behold. What is with me this year? First Amy Ryan, now Holbrook? I'm becoming an Academy voter.

Looking upthread I'm actually kinda surprised (at least given more recent posts) that nobody's raised what seems like an obvious comparison point, at least offhand -- Timothy Treadwell, the Grizzly Man guy.

I took the weird moment where Penn has Hirsch (while eating an apple) give a big cheesy lunging grin straight into the camera as a nod to Grizzly Man.

while Hirsch is physically reminiscent of young DiCaprio, I think he's a better (adult) actor.

I thought the apple lunge was very cool 1971 kinda thing to do.

Oh, it's not supergreat. There have been no any kind o' great '07 films for me yet, not even Killer of Sheep.

Apparently when Penn first got the rights, he wanted Brando in the Holbrook part. Imagine HIM huffin' up that hill.

I thought the apple lunge was very cool 1971 kinda thing to do.

Or a very cool 1991 "do the Dew" kinda thing to do.

ah too old to get that ref, m8.

I wonder if there's been an uptick in Tolstoy, Thoreau and Dr Zhivago sales in the last 3 months?

I confess I didn't even realize I was supposed to read Dr. Zhivago.

The fat paperback's been on my shelf for years, but yeah same.

(we shd be podcasting this)

Morbs liking this movie cheers me to no end

i assume he reprises his swingers role

-- s1ocki, Monday, February 11, 2008 3:53 PM (Monday, February 11, 2008 3:53 PM) Bookmark Link

RONG

I think Eddie Vedder did a nice job with the music. (Color me surprised and ultimately impressed.) It brought to mind the indelible work Leonard Cohen contributed to McCabe & Mrs. Miller.

I thought the apple lunge was very cool 1971 kinda thing to do.

I hated this moment. What 70s stuff are you referring to?

I also cringed at the L.A./Skid Row scene where Alex peeks through a restaurant window and sees the businessman/yuppie/"what could have been" version of himself looking back smugly.

The chapter headings were painful, too.

I saw "Into the Wild" on a double bill with "Five Easy Pieces" this weekend, and it didn't benefit from sitting side by side with that movie. I 100% loved the slabs chapter so much; I kind of wish it had been a different movie about those characters exclusively.

I liked seeing Zach Galifiankis as the how-to-smoke-meat-advisor.

I didn't see the need for the wacky topless Danish couple scene (it was fun enough, but the movie felt awfully long to me already).

Emile Hirsch was great. Everyone in it was pretty awesome, actually. and I liked the music a lot. The Kaki King guitar stuff was really nice, and some of those Vedder tunes were really pretty (the soundtrack was one of the really 70s things about the flick, in a lot of ways).

Yeah, I didn't like the moment either, and have no clue as to why the movie needed a 1971 moment ... but, I'm also wondering if Hal Holbrook's miraculous scenes wouldn't work half as well if stuff like that hadn't set up Supertramp to be at least partially annoying and self-righteous.

the chapter heads were amazingly annoying!! c'est vrai.

Saw it a couple of hours ago. My take.

thanks for giving away the heart of the movie

He doesn't trust the ambiguity in his tale; the soft gray Alaskan light confers grace on Christopher McCandless' last exhalations.

this is called going Hollywood to try to sell something you care about to a mass audience

I share Dana Stevens' discomfort regarding a scene in which McCandless urges the Holbrook character to climb a steep rocky cliff -- his needling the old man feels cruel; he doesn't expect Holbrook to crumple from a heart attack on his ascent?

um, he's an oblivious, naive kid?

and we're supposed to cheer the old codger!

no we're not

it's "suspense"

it's cheap. There's nothing up to that moment from Penn that would indicate that we're supposed to regard this particular request skeptically (other than that the Vedder music didn't smother it to death as Holbrook climbed to deliver his Sermon on the Mount).

dude, we're supposed to regard every single thing the kid does skeptically (but also with an open mind)

I don't think so.

especially not the John Prine performance.

I didn't see the need for the wacky topless Danish couple scene

'comic' relief/token T&A

i didn't like them either

Still haven't seen the flick. I don't want it to ruin the book for me.

I kinda don't wanna see this movie cuz I am afraid my reaction will be the same as Alfred's, that Penn will undercut the ambiguity and unease in the book with sentimentality and/or implicitly endorse Krakauer's silliness and cruelty

implicitly endorse Krakauer's silliness and cruelty

?

well, he doesn't.

not that 'cruelty' is partic fair.

alfred, i wlould have thought that this state of grace is kind of ambiguous. to be honest i didn't read the ending that way, but even if he was an idiot, even if he was wrong, what mad kind of film would do that ending as a "moral of the story"? it feels like a terrible waste.

Penn will undercut the ambiguity and unease in the book with sentimentality and/or implicitly endorse Krakauer's silliness and cruelty

I never got through the book, but I'd guess yes to the first, which is part of what makes it a good movie, and no to the second

?

-- El Tomboto

From the book the guy struck me as a naive and sanctimonious jackass who was fairly cruel to his family and the old dude.

x-post

also glad Alfred ref'd "Grizzly Man" cuz when I heard this movie was being made my first reaction was no way could it touch Werner operating at full strength.

naive and sanctimonious college students -- what are the odds? he's not deliberately cruel to them, but this shit happens all the time! what kind of movie do you want? one that takes account of the pain he causes (i.e. this movie) or one that makes a harrumphing fuss about what an idiot the kid was?

it's not that much like herzog but ummmmmm if you want films that indulge actual cruel motherfuckers, like aguirre, herzog's ya boy.

oh ok shakey I thought you were talking about Krakauer himself.

what kind of movie do you want? one that takes account of the pain he causes (i.e. this movie) or one that makes a harrumphing fuss about what an idiot the kid was?

geez all I was sayin was I don't trust Penn's cinematic instincts re: this particular subject matter. In terms of "what kind of movie I want", well not this one, I guess haha otherwise I would've watched it by now... it strikes me as deeply ironic that it got made at all (lolz what would Krakauer himself think) and I was perfectly happy to have the themes of the book dealt with by a superior filmmaker like Herzog.

oh ok shakey I thought you were talking about Krakauer himself.

no, I was referring to the kid. Sorry didn't mean to mix him up with Krakauer.

goddammit and I did it AGAIN in that very post arrrghhh

(lolz what would Krakauer the kid himself think)

I think many people may be missing that Krakauer - a longtime nature/outdoor writer - was probably envisioning an audience of people who don't need the allure of "the wild" explained to them. Penn's addition of that element to the movie helped make it so effective (and ambiguous). What would Krakauer think? Well my understanding is that his participation in the movie was extensive, so...

alfred, i wlould have thought that this state of grace is kind of ambiguous. to be honest i didn't read the ending that way, but even if he was an idiot, even if he was wrong, what mad kind of film would do that ending as a "moral of the story"?

No one can doubt that Penn endorses this guy's Thoreau-in-the-woods approach, despite the bits of skepticism. That's ok! I don't CARE if he changed the book -- that's his right as a director -- but the hamhanded way in which he delineated McC's asceticism bothered me.

Unfair or not, this film is Penn's, thus context is important: his acting and directing choices show that he's very comfortable with simple binarities.

Alfred,

I think the cruelty in the climbing scene is exactly the ambiguity you claim is missing from the film as a whole

e.g. it is not just some elevated critical posture that feels the keen discomfort of the holbrook/aging dynamic, it is a key point in the construction the sequence

No one can doubt that Penn endorses this guy's Thoreau-in-the-woods approach, despite the bits of skepticism

There's no doubt Penn endorses his iconoclasm, his rejection of conventions, his interest in rawness of experience, his search for beauty, etc etc, just as there's no doubt he thinks he's naive and selfish and kind of a dickhead and could have been so much more if he'd been less uncompromising.

Yes.

decent but ugh the sister narration was mfa 101 awful.

a scene in which McCandless urges the Holbrook character to climb a steep rocky cliff

lol, we were picturing this scene as a Perry Bible strip, in which the last scene ended with air ambulances and tragedy.

but overall, didn't enjoy this movie. It just seemed to portray the guy as a spoilt parent-hating brat who didn't realise how lucky he was, which whether or not is true for the real life Chris bares no alteration to my disliking of this film.

bnw completely offtm, her narration saved this from stultifying male self-mythology.

RONG 3

tho the sister did seem like an mfa 101 kinda girl

From the book the guy struck me as a naive and sanctimonious jackass who was fairly cruel to his family and the old dude.

This is pretty much precisely what I got from the film, which I enjoyed (I haven't read the book).

this hit me pretty hard. it would have hit me a lot harder of Penn had done a lot less with it but those Hal Holbrook scenes, jesus, they're just wonderful. i didn't need slow motion, time lapse, chapter headings, super 8-ish flashbacks, voice overs, text all over the screen... and the mugging to the camera scene (with the apple) and the yuppie hallucination thing were particularly annoying. structurally it's pretty sound but Penn does as much as possible to make you think he doesn't have a clue what he's doing. maybe he was too close to the film to realise that all that stuff was just getting in the way.

when it's just being played out pretty straight it's very powerful and the cinematography is incredibly beautiful.

Finally saw the film. `Twas crap. Stick with the book.

Reading "Under the Banner of Heaven" at long last -- and am now openly afraid of Mormons.

under the banner of heaven is great. and yes, v v frightening!
i didn't like into the wild. i saw the movie and it was not offensively bad, but maybe because i also wasn't crazy about the book?
into thin air is still my favorite krakauer though.

i was just wondering what happened to jon krakauer. no new books since 2015. i remember that "missoula" (the 2015 book) was controversial but not how or to what degree. was he cancelled or did he just stop writing?

Looks like he's doing stuff like this:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-selling-author-jon-krakauer-194600627.html

but i wonder why he isn't writing anymore. those first two books were both big hits and "under the banner of heaven" was also great and recently made into a miniseries.