ILE -- has it Dumbed Down?

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I was looking back and found this:

Jacques Derrida

And it's like PHEW BLIMEY COR they's some smart chappies.

Or is that sort of thing always a rarity?

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

And there are pirate jokes!

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

there'll be tears before bedtime

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

we're waiting for our second wind

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

*bronx cheer*

― oops (Oops), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Not so much dumbed down as SEXED UP, RRRRROOOOWWWWRRRRR!!!

(Come on, I start threads about history and historical politics, and, erm, how much I fancy Cambridge Historians, what more do you want?)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Much as I enjoy a good natter on the subject, haven't we covered this one to death? Jess not to thread.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair point, and that's what I like too. Maybe I'll take a sabbatical and read up on rockin' JD, sexy MF, loungin RB, 'crazy' JL, and fashionable D&G, et al, then I can bring it with the big boys.

xpost

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex T is a very Special mang.

Barry Lasagne has a good point.

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

However I am reading GOETHE at the moment. Only because it sounds a bit like "goth". So far it is better than "Derrida for Beginnxx0rs"!

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's AMAZING RANDY when we need him?

― Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:09 (twenty-two years ago)

No.

― Pauline (starry), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Student: Mr Derrida, do you think that at the centre of any problematic there is a paradox?

Derrida: Well, yes and no.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, and no. Although if all of ILE were intellectual threads discussing Derrida, I doubt I'd ever contribute.

― Mandee, Friday, 7 November 2003 11:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the rise of Google has contributed to this dumbing down of ILX, but in the nightmares I was having a few minutes ago imprisoned women were oozing melted butter so I should go away now.

― Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

No, its dumbed up.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

oozing melted butter

orifice butter?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i have dumbed down for sure!

― geeta (geeta), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"there'll be tears before bedtime"

isn't it like 4 AM in seattle or wherever you are?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I fucking hate these threads with a burning passion. Just felt like sharing.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

You aren't the same Dan Perry who put up a thread the other day asking 'where did it all go wrong for ILX, I'd rather put a shoe in my face' are you?

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan when is your Christmas single coming out???

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Christ, I'd better get on that!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Poop, uh huh huh...huh uh huh.....

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

(That thread was asking "What has ILE been like for you the past couple of days?", not "What's wrong with ILE?". I don't know why I was expecting people to get that when pretty much the entirety of ILE history shows that people would read it exactly the same way you did, Enrique.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait. If any of you out there thinks this place has suddenly become a bastion of pure idiocy, once again you are SO spoiled. I've just come back from viewing the forum I used to be a regular participant of and nine out of ten of the threads therein were filled with even more banality than what can be evident on this forum. Maybe this is because the latter forum is just a forum filled with Average Janes (and the occasional Average Joe), and maybe more is expected of this forum because this is supposed to be a forum filled with people who are NOT "little people" and certainly not Average Janes or Joes, but recognize that this place is actually one of the more intelligent, insightful, and intimidating places on the Internet.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't take Enrique's question as a rehash of the hoary old 'nu ILX sux' chestnut, but as a more specific one.

I still think Frank Kogan was right that ILX, while good at producing certain kinds of knowledges, is not the ideal forum for that kind of intellectual endeavour. I'm not sure why this is, but I think it's too easy to bluster (I'm guilty of this myself) or be more argumentative than strictly necessary (Guilty of this also, but compare the guy when I gave a talk to a student philosophy society 'But you're wrong: all of JD's arguments are either trivial or fallacious!')). I find it hard -- as a much of a 'professional' at this as you can be, although I still feel like an amateur -- to achieve a professional level of detachment talking about stuff which is also quite close to my heart / sense of self-worth. I'm happy to explain why (for example) I don't find the terms post-structuralism or post-modernism useful, but I don't really have the time or energy to persuade anyone who doesn't want to be persuaded that they should think my way -- or Derrida's way -- about things. (See -- I should be doing something else RIGHT NOW!)

― alext (alext), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

DAN -- no I didn't think that but then this thread was in spirit of jest so i though ow fuck him when you said fuck this then and deliberately misunderinterpreted yourn. Nerrr!

― eNRIQUE (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen, my friend, complaining that ILE can be dumb sometimes is denying that every one of us can be dumb sometimes. We all do dumb things and make dumb jokes in real life. Should we pretend to be something else when we're on the internet? Should we censor ourselves so that we only come across as witty, intelligent people, denying our natural urge to make penis and fart jokes? No, because that is a denial of part of us. Down here, it's our time. Up there, it's their time. Next time you take a test...it could be in a new school. The next time you look at the sky...it could be over a new town. Don't say die, Goonies never say die!

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

With regard to the original question... I also wonder what would happen if we revived the exact day on which the Derrida discussion took place, and saw what other wonderfully intellectually stimulating debate was going on.

Threads taken out of context always lend a misty eyed status to old ILE.

Like I said, there are many enjoyable and stimulating debates STILL HAPPENING, dumbed down or not, that get missed because people are too busy watching the carcrash of the megathreads.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Do the truffle shuffle NA -- it was kind of a joke anyway, I know full well ILX '01 wasn't all discussions of Bergson (check this -- ed.) et al.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/archive.php?board=1&date=5%2F11%2F2001

I mean, look at it! The contentious "who is your most favourite/least favourite poster" thread dates from that week.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

ILE has definitely dumbed down, there is no two ways about it. Whether it's a good or bad thing is your own matter but ILE has dumbed down, it was a very different place before. It was never about pretending to be something else either or some prescription people had, there were alot of really really intelligent people here, I know I wasn't one but if you look at old threads you'll see it clearly. Those people no longer post, for the most part. There are traces of genius here and still lots of exceptionally clever people but it isn't quite the same.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Quick note in addition to original post: The forum I used to go to wasn't filled with idiots or "slow" people. The "slow" people were there, sure, but they were in the minority. The forum was mostly made up of quite bright and capable individuals. The fact that they just go about living their everyday, average lives is probably what makes that forum not filled to the brim with "intellectual" conversation. Those who've got a lot on their plate offline don't want to go online and talk about Soren Kierkegaard, for example. They want to talk about Schwan's or high school memories (the forum is largely populated with people in their late 20s - early 30s and it's rare to see someone who's even just getting into college) instead.

Addition: Thank you, Kate, for bringing up the points you're bringing up. Suddenly this forum doesn't seem quite as intimidating.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I really can't stand when people refuse to accept the possibility that the board changes over time, and I used to do it myself which makes me a hypocrite.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan otm.

― Nicolars (Nicole), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I made poopy this morning.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan: Maybe it's not so much that less intelligent people are posting here nowadays, but rather that the "regular people" are starting to come in (um, like me for example) and post and we're not as likely to get into highly intellectual conversations, because we don't have the luxury of being able to think as deeply about those things as others might.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

*laughs at Spinktor's post*

That's da spihwit!

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, maybe you got smarter, but still think you are dumb. Hence board appears to have got worse.

No, this place goes in cycles, and you have to hit the right combination of posters for any thread to work. Same as it ever was.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Perhaps Pete.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

What really is the point of all these threads, aside from making all of the current and/or NEW CONTRIBUTORS feel bad or inadequate about themselves? For fuck's sake. I mean, i know this was created in jest but enough already with the mentalist ilx snobbery...and i say this as one who's been here on and off since '01...

I just talked to one of our beloved old time regulars, who told me tonite that she is quitting ILX, precisely because of the reason that a few people continue to bitch about how much worse it's gotten, which makes her feel bad for her newcomer-ilx friends. She's tired of seeing them attacked on a constant basis, and is just weary of it all, so is leaving for a while. That's all these threads are accomplishing, I guess: wearying everyone out

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

'ILX snobbery'...pfbtbt! Never!

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Pete is OTM. That said, I am usually not especially bothered by these things usually and even *I* think ILE has been a bit crap the last week or so. I just don't want to get the stage where genuine discussion (of anything, from Derrida to Hollyoaks to what flavour crisps is best) gets outweighed by list threads or picture threads or endless variations upon the same theme (like the logout one for today), where everyone is just talking over each other with no real interaction between posters.

Ronan - who used to post that isn't doing so any more?

It has nothing to do with new/old contributors - I think the forum is better off for the contributions of Enrique or Stelfox or whoever, even if I don't necessarily agree with what they're saying.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure we attack newcomers much. It's more that we're getting so used to being here that politeness and consideration is replaced by our baser, more selfish opinions towards other old hands. IMHO.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=1637058

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It has nothing to do with new/old contributors

If it doesn't, then why would it matter who stills posts here or not ?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

well I'm thinking of old threads where you had pinefox, robin c, jerry the nipper, nabisco later, and more whom I probably have forgotten. Look at some of the old ILM threads even, you'd be shocked at the difference.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

But those people still post! Pinefox and StevieT are regular contributors, Carmody puts a word in occasionally and did so on the IDS threads just last week etc. But the volume of posts has made their contributions looks smaller as ILE has got bigger.

ILM has dumbed down hugely, but ILE was just as much about irrelevant nonsense back in 2001 as it is now. Look.

Whats Your Favorite Vegetable

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

meta question: is il* getting nastier?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Hah, and I was always horrible to new people. Eh Ronan.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't mean to say that ILX is horrible to new people (and fwiw, the other poster I talked with is the one who used the term "attacked"), but this constant bitching about how trash ilx has gotten compared to its glory days does nothing to make anyone who was not present back then feel like a valuable contributor. Why is this hard to comprehend?

Or fine, go on bitching.

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, you'd be shocked at the difference, because so many intelligent people participated in discussions instead of just bitching about the new people all the time

if so-called "nu-ilx" sux, it's not the fault of the newbies: it's the fault of the old foax who don't know how to deal creatively with change

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

They aren't regular really are they?

And yeah Matt I know it was about irrelevent nonsense but you know full well subject does not dictate intellectual fibre very strictly, there are standards of intelligence in witty goofing around aswell. I just think ILE has become more like the rest of the net, pictures being posted nonstop, sexism, perving, desperate whining, and I do think that constitutes a certain dumbing down.

I don't really want to start a big row about it cos I'd rather just discuss it. Seriously though threads start now and people just fire jokes which make no sense back and forth, it's like two people playing tennis except one of them has a 9 iron and is on a golf course.

haha Pete you rotter. Vic don't take it personally, if you think it's good now then that means you disagree and hence as far as you're concerned I'm wrong, or whoever else is wrong.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

really the constant demonization of "nu-ilx" is ideologically non-different from "I hate that kind of music, they don't even use real drums"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, things change, people move on. That's how it is. No-one needs to feel guilty for scaring off old regulars - they're big and often ugly enough to deal with it themselves. If people get bored, get different jobs, whatever, they leave. Everything is like that. If anything we should be happy that we still attract new posters, and many of them (hard though it may be sometimes) stick it out long enough to become part of the fabric.

X-post - D4rn13ll3 0tm

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

OTM.

Has ILE Gone Down The Dumper?

People have ALWAYS been saying ILE was better in the old days. (Actually, just a cursory glance at this thread will show its probably a lot LESS hostile now than it once was).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

(xpost I do kinda agree with Ronan as well - the kind of threads he's talking about DO seem to be outweighing everything else at the moment). But then in two weeks time it could be really good again - it is cyclical.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Ronan is pretty OTM, there is something not quite right lately.

― chris (chris), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

John D hits on a good point in that I feel just as bad as what I bemoan in my third paragraph there, it's highly contagious.

Of course that's true Matt but can't people just accept that ILE changes, it has been absolute toss generally for about ten days now, the longest period I can remember it being bad for.

I just find it weird how people aren't allowed to say ILE has changed alot of the time, can you guys honestly say it's been good recently?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

millions of x-posts but anyhow

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

On the Sinister list one of the few actually-enforced rules is don't discuss the list ON the list. And it's really helped to keep the list from dissolving (even though it's a shadow of its former self these days).

I'm not suggesting the same should happen on ILX, but I do think that thinking carefully about posting (on) this kind of thread is a very good idea. Perhaps we could agree to have a moratorium on meta-threads for a couple of weeks and see how things go?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I do agree it could be good again and I mean it's still a great place etc, I just think the distance between each "ILE has gone to crap" meta thread is getting smaller and smaller and each time it does seem slightly worse, ie whole new problems.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I just find it weird how people aren't allowed to say it goes up and down

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, I like you a lot, always have and will continue to, but I do think you're somewhat wrong. If you think that ILX getting more "chatty" is the result of oldtimer-smarter-intellectualish posters posting less, you're underestimating the impact and influence that the casual and spontaneous manner of AIM conversations have had on ILX.

And in that way, one can accurately say that some posting styles have changed on this board. It's grown in volume, gotten maybe a bit looser and more casual, and instead of people posting long posts, they've taken to posting clever asides and started engaging in witty banter...all being influenced chiefly by AIM chat.

But that doesn't mean it has "dumbed down."

And that certainly doesn't mean that you CAN'T find your deep-and-thoughtful intellectualish conversations here IF YOU WANT TO! Just look around - they're still everywhere!

Why complain about some of the changes that the board has encompassed as it hasn't altered its general course or content, and if it's still flowing in the same direction? ILX is ultimately what you, the individual poster, makes of it, and I think it's large enough to contain both posting styles: the conversational repartee as well as the more elaborate postiage (I'm making that werd up).

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually think this might be an incredibly good idea. Because Ronan-bitching has made ILX a far worse experience for me than dumbing down ever has.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

If anything, I think more "negative" influence should be placed on the shoulders of the endless "excelsior cutting nd posting what you thing is funny haha!!!" thread series, since that emphasizes ILX's focus of being more on wit and cleverness, to the detriment of substance.

If you took away the incentive of getting mentioned of there, I think some people would stop posting meaningless one-liners in an unfortunate attempt to be funny. [Mr. Perry, this does not apply to you. Please never change.]

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair point Mark but I think each time it is not going quite as high as the time before, like a football or a bad yoyo.

Kate there's no need to make it personal cos it isn't.

I don't know if banning meta is a good idea, it feels a little bit shut up to me.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I've thought ILE has been pretty bad for a few days, BUT I don't think it's been any worse than it has been at low points in the past. Also, I am a smart person but I am not an "academic" and probably haven't been since I was 20. There is something deeply off-putting and snobbish about the idea that attempting humor automatically makes you less intelligent than discussing someone else's ideas.

(xpost Haha Vic I kiss you)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

we're back at square one really I guess to this old thing of people assuming by intelligent people mean the average rainfall in the amazon basin or the freudian theory when really I mean funnier dick jokes.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

well that's because you're getting old and rockist ronan and blaming it on the world

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan you're totally otm but as you see I am approaching the same point from a different angle.

Mark, never!

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

There are only so many dick jokes in the world, and Dan has the best.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

wd it be ok if instead of META we filed these threads under MID-LIFE CRISIS!!

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

cz i already had mine

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

We all meet in time square in one weeks time with maces and cudgels and settle this.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan is to dick jokes what Derrida is to ~~beach volleyball~~ abstract thought.

I do feel an instinctive twitch of agreement regarding the "laugh out loud" threads, most of all when I think of the massive amount (75%+?) of in-jokes that make up the thread. But I also think it's mostly a good thing, and I would hope any thoughtful and intelligent posters wouldn't get sucked into the "balanced, perceptive argument vs chickenbear/front bottom/"..."/Geir Hongro" dilemma.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, I think there'd be less of the assumption that dick jokes = dumm if people would link the "How many bras do you own?" or the "How many people have you, well, YOU KNOW..." threads instead of discussions about Derrida every time this topic came up.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't link anything dude!

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan basically already said this, but "wit and humor" is not the opposite of "substance." This attitude that serious topics are the only ones that are meaningful is what makes the Academy Awards bullshit.

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

To be fair, Nick, Ronan said that as well.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Why would I want to be fair?

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

some women like blondes

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Ro, I didn't mean to imply you did! Sorry, I am dumm. :-(

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

you can't spell hostile without ile.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

You can't spell smile without ile, or pile, or reptile

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

My point was every time this comes up, someone has to link to the Derrida thread as proof that ILE used to be full of smart people and that irks me.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Or paedophile.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

We should just delete it the Derrida thread.

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

we need a link which turns off your computer

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

a link which says "put on pants", a link which says "have a shower, get up off that chair", a link which says "get some excercise!", the sort of link you would invite out to dinner hoping for something more.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the good things about these threads is occasionally they do encourage people to post about actual STUFF rather than endless "logout and reveal your crush/dirty secret" threads (not that I am anti these, but one is enough at any one time).

The case against dumbing down:

Bruce Chatwin - the best travel writer of his generation
Taking sides: Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus vs his Philosophical Investigations
I think I'm still in love with my Ex-Girlfriend
Who Shall Be King ?
Taking sides: Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus vs his Philosophical Investigations

All posted after this thread began.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, but what's "good" about those threads as opposed to, say:
mayonnaise c or d
for example?

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree Matt, this is the first time people have actually spoken to each other here in too long.

Nick, no one is disagreeing with you.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

So we're deleting the Derrida thread then?

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

No one is agreeing either.

xpost

― Nicolars (Nicole), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

The problem is that everyone in the world has a different idea of what constitutes a "good discussion"--I mean Momus upheld the fashion thread as some kind of paragon of horrifying intellectual death at one point, but virtually the entire thread was a lengthy well reasoned discussion/advice session that covered design theories and trends and "stupid" shit like what we were each wearing today very well. I'm pretty sure the Derrida thread was a boring wank session to some people!

The thread question will never bring anything but evil(e?) because the original poster doesn't explain what he means by dumb--merely that he thinks that a discussion of Derrida is some kind of evidence of intelligent life in the universe. I am assuming it is the above referenced meta crush/hate/cartooncharacters threads that are being referred to as the dumbing down of ILE but it all depends.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I blame hstencil .

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

The Mayonnaise thread is also good. I reiterate the importance of talking about STUFF.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Food threads are the secret key to ILE, always have been.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

The Derrida thread is boring? You Kant be serious.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

That's the worst joke in the history of mankind.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, so now I'm confused. Ronan and everyone else is making a point to say that witty banter, mayonaise and dick jokes are not "unintelligent," not oppositional to substance, and do not constitute "dumbing down." Fine.

But Ronan is also saying.. I just think ILE has become more like the rest of the net, pictures being posted nonstop, sexism, perving, desperate whining, and I do think that constitutes a certain dumbing down

So where exactly is the "dumbing down," then? More pictures being posted...the Elvis/Annouchka threads? Perving...the crush threads? Desperate whining... the "this is the thread where I say " one? More like the rest of the net...less of the original clique around ?

I guess it really matters who is making the dick jokes, at the end of the day. Right ? How else is someone to explain standards of intelligence in witty goofing around - or am I missing something here, because a discussion of crushes circa 2001 is more intelligent than it is in 2003, as is a picture, etc. It matters who is posting what I, um, suppose. And not just because Oops is quite inept at making dick jokes, compared to Dan Perry. But because other members of the old clique just aren't around as much!!!

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not going to name specific people or threads, I don't want a big row. I'm trying to think about drinking later.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

nabisco is soooooooooooo missed

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

That's your problem. You should start drinking earlier.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

There is nothing more cowardly than to refuse to name threads. Because all of the threads that I've seen named here point to the fact that ILE is as vibrant as ever.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Ronan is pretty OTM, there is something not quite right lately.

Hello!

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

But Kate, what point would naming names accomplish other than creating more hostility?

― Nicolars (Nicole), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

But Nicole, what point would publicly re-stating your frustrations accomplish month after month while refusing to be specific about what is bothering you, other than creating paranoia, resentment and ill-will?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

So where exactly is the "dumbing down," then? More pictures being posted...the Elvis/Annouchka threads? Perving...the crush threads? Desperate whining... the "this is the thread where I say " one?

I think its a question of BALANCE, Vic - I don't have a problem with that kind of thread, but it did feel like they were taking over the board a bit recently and pushing everything else out.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

There are certain things that I think are universally valued here, the big ones being intelligence (including knowledge of useful information), perceptiveness, empathy, and wit. This is signal. Noise usually happens when people attempt wit and fail, or show empathy inappropriately), or (worst of all to me) post just to post.

I've been guilty of bad signal-to-noise ratio and excessive tweeness certainly. Those were/are growing pains for me, as I try to get established in a community that I enjoy...I want/ed people to have a bit of an idea who I am. Maybe now I can relax a little bit.

I think we all have a responsibility to reflect on our posts occasionally to see if they are truly adding to the conversation.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Because, I want to know exactly what it is that Ronan is bitching about. Because, quite honestly, I think that ILE is at the most interesting, least bitchy, and most balanced between serious debate and pally humour that it's been in a long time.

Maybe that points to me being an optimist - I'm one of those people that likes to think that ILE gets better and better the more interesting new people that join. Rather than thinking it gets worse and worse with rose-tinted glasses about some supposed golden age that never was.

I should just stop reading this thread, cause it's starting to piss me off, this reactionary crap.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

It's funny how people want their pound of flesh which in this case is some big raging war, Kate I do not hate you or dislike you or wish to argue with you.

N have you been lurking all this time.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't give a shit if you hate me or not or want to argue with me or not. I just want you to provide examples of what it is that you're decrying.

Because I've seen a lot of examples of potentially flameridden topics - Radical Menstration, the monarchy debate for example - turn into very interesting, quite intelligent, AND friendly and funny debates.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I tend to agree w/k8 about the boards, perhaps it's just because i'm back online at work, and it's a pleasant novelty to see threads actually happening, as opposed to reading them after the event, but I'm enjoying this as much as I ever have.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm glad you're enjoying it Kate, but obviously it's possible for other people to feel differently. When did I become the posterboy for disgruntled ILE, and more importantly what am I wearing in the shoot?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

does anyone here honestly not think that the threads they're not reading are more full of stuff they'ere not taking into account these days?

WELL?

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, *you* are the one arguing most voiciferous about this nostalgia for an imagined ILE past, so we would really like to see you provide some honest to god proof of exactly what it is that is so repugnant to you.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Dastoor just made me spit coffee all over my monitor, btw.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you'll be wearing a nice mod shirt with a big target on it, Ro.

Mark that was a masterpiece of multiple negativing.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark S may well have a point, but honestly. I NEVER at any point expected ILE to have every single thread be of interest to me. It's much more useful to start/contribute to threads that do interest you than to complain about the ones that don't.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

exhibit a, a board full of inane chatter

exhibit b, a photo of joan collins circa 83

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry actually scratch that "a board full of inane chatter", I'm not going to be the anti nu ilx person that I am being made into here, I was being polite and I was clear enough earlier about what I am decrying.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

The people who are made to feel paranoid about this topic and are routinely called out for it (including by me when I went off on oops yesterday) are the ones least deserving it, FWIW.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Did anyone actually go and click my link? I mean, really. Do it. It's really good to be reminded sometimes that - despite the occasional burst of intellect that still goes on - ILE has always been like this. It was STARTED because of jokey in-fighting and off topic banter.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

THREAD LOCKED BY ADMINISTRATOR

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

But back then, did it really matter that much if "the right people" were doing the jokey in-fighting and off-topic banter ?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

it's happened before, people will take a chill pill, ally's ass will emerge as the biggest thing thisboard has ever seen and hanle y wills tp making sense
-- Queen G (effexxo...), February 28th, 2002 8:00 PM. (link)

...the hell?

― Jay Dee Sah Mon (Kingfish), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, you all can kind of blame me and Otis.

(xpost: Vic it apparently still matters now since people don't call out fillintheblankregulars for the same behavior they bitch out other people for, including me)

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread is kind of ridiculous, I don't know what the hell I'm doing bothering with it but it seems the argument is "I don't like ILE now and think it's changed" vs "I like ILE now therefore it has not changed". I have no idea what I'm talking about.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I am amused by y'alls high opinions of your own intelligence

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

wait, only if you're in the "in crowd" can you engage in jokey- in-fighting in the first place! i did not mean to use 5 ins in the last sentence

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

there is no in crowd, mark s is an annunaki who re-enters his dimension in lizard form at various portals around the world

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

see now I am clever and funny and know lots of things, but you don't see ME spending all day bitching about how dumb and boring the rest of you are on an internet mentalist messageboard!!!

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, I'm not an administrator.

I wasn't posting much a couple of months ago because I was busy at work and ILx wasn't doing much for me. Now i am because work is less busy and I think there have been some fun/interesting threads of late. But I only have about six or seven threads I look at regularly, and knowing how thread mutation works it is more than possible that a lot of the other ones are fascinating. But I don't have that much time. ILx is bigger, much more difficult to cover but these are all good things. So do we all agree then, Ilx is different to different people at different times? (Can I start talking about prehistoric ILx again. Can I?)

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

well you've kind of started now.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom, how much did it cost you to buy the "people like me" domain name?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

It's ok Tom I got the picture with your subtle first few posts.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

THIS THREAD IN A NUTSHELL:

1) Enrique yet again posts that he thinks everyone on this board besides like Momus is a retard
2) xyz takes the bait
3) DASTOOR!!!
4) Kate and Ronan make out passionately
5) Vic reveals the shocking human tendency towards favoritism
6) Blount and Tom in a surprise move post unhelpful shit about Nitsuh/themselves
7) Hopefully now RAVER PANTS AND GLOWSTICKS

This is like the 40,000th thread we've had on this subject this week! This is why I posted that the people who are getting called out are not the people who should be blamed if indeed ilx is for shit. How many "old ilx" do nothing but apparently post either dumb ass "jokes" or navel gazing existentialism, including myself? Ronan and Enrique: your punishment is a 50,000 word essay on Derrida.

I apologize yet again to oops who isn't even HERE because apparently he's smarter than me and is avoiding this for calling him out because quite frankly you didn't deserve it.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

8) So does RJG.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

We haven't had a proper thread on this subject, also I find your summary unhelpful, except for part 7 obviously.

9) GET ONE LIFE, I wish it was easy.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Part 7 is the best part!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I find the new posters are reluctant to wear raver pants

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Make out with a popist oirish foreigner? Never! it's against the constitution or something!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I find sane people are reluctant to wear raver pants.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, this week has led to the coining of the phrase GET ONE LIFE, ergo I take it all back.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

AMAZING RANDY...WHERE ARE YOU IN OUR TIME OF NEED?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

You forgot 6 1/2: NA posts stuff that everyone already knows, everyone else ignores him.

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I find your posts delightful and erudite, NA.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

You're a Jerry the Nipper Part II, NA.....Nipper Jr

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I find your posts not so delightful and erudite, Vic. Your punishment: 50,000 word essay on the difference between love and infatuation.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I CAST JUDGEMENT ON YOU ALL LIKE AN EVIL ORACLE BOOOYAH.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

''This is like the 40,000th thread we've had on this subject this week!''

10) ally can't count.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I do a 50,000 word essay on the glory of Nigel Spivey? Please, miss?

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I am reminded of a post RJG made once about how he thought Andrew Farrell must be beating on Julio, because "Andrew looks truly happy".

Kate, you may do this. I would like an appendix on Julian Casablancas though, ok? Extra credit.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally, you elitist snobbish ilxite!!

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course this thread is now ridiculously hysterical to me. Should I be worried that my enjoyment of ILE is inversely proportional to how seriously everyone takes themselves?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

''I am reminded of a post RJG made once about how he thought Andrew Farrell must be beating on Julio, because "Andrew looks truly happy".''

11) Ally is taking this thread seriously.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

::can't post, furiously scribbling::

I'll post it on this thread when I'm done, honest!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i find some of the "smart" threads oppressive and get the feeling people are speaking to themselves to a large degree.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean the ones everyone points to when they say "lo! ile was smarter back then"

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

That's obviously what's happening here, Julio, and it's not just I consistently find you one of the most unfunny people here, but you already knew that I thought that about you!!

Dan is OTM!! So is amateurist.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Do I get extra points if I write it in Latin?

Nigellus Spivicus divisa est in tres partes...

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Never cared what you or anybody thought abt me one way or another.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't read Latin; can you do German?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Julio, your punishment is to stop replying to people you "don't care about"!!!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

It's Ally's turn to pass judgement on all of us. I've already been Derrida'd for my punning ability, and am duly sorry.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Die Nichel Spivey Kugelschrieber Knickerbiem fledermaus!

(I have no idea what I've just said, but it sounds great!)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

okay so i think we should pick 15 random, non-ile related people and they each get to pick one topic to be talked about that day. and for that day, everyone can only post in one of those 15 threads and everything has to be completely on topic. at least 6 of those people should be moms, 3 grannies, one postal employee and five children between the ages of 2 and 9. this could seriously fix every problem.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sorry, that was atrocious and laboured, and will commence self-flagellation forthwith.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean when i read some of the longer posts by ________ ______ or _____ _____ i get the feeling that if everyone quietly left the room on their tippy toes they would just keep on going until closing time.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I will reply to pass the time.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, how am I supposed to get more "erudite" anyway? Wtf? Like dress as a professor in tweeds and carry a pipe and wear black horn rimmed emo glasses or something? Aside from doing my assignment of course..Kate, you're still 49, 993 words away..language doesn't matter!

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, you've been on my Nigel Spivey threads?

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Yanc3y's idea, only one of the children should be a pre-op transsexual.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

i just wish people wouldn't be MEAN is all

i don't care if they're SMART or STUPID

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Like dress as a professor in tweeds and carry a pipe and wear black horn rimmed emo glasses or something?

Rowr! Careful, I'm starting to get the horn!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Matt, the thing is, I still laughed at that joke. My post against you was more a condemnation of my own lack of a good sense of humor!!

Kate I give you an A++ *mwaaaah*

Yancey and amateurist OTM!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

TRUX! (173 new answers, 3 unread)
Things you shouldn't forget before leaving the house (71 new answers, 60 unread)
More fucking letters? (112 new answers, 112+ unread)
Look at this photo album of people I've forgotten (9 new answers, 9+ unread)
DIRT! (40 new answers, 40+ unread)
JUICE! (81 new answers, 81+ unread)
He's not rite 4 U (50 new answers, 50 unread)
I think I'm still in love with my Ex-Husband (42 new answers, 33 unread)
pickled meat (32 new answers, 32+ unread)
Jacques Meoff (2 new answers, 2 unread)
why is bobby mean? (153 new answers, 153 unread)
How do I look in this? Autumn catalogue. (92 new answers, 42 unread)
New Shoes. (50 new answers, 50 unread)

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Weinerschnitzel!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Yancey that's a ridiculous idea, always fucking pushing the postal workers. Christ.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Rowr! Careful, I'm starting to get the horn!

-- Citizen Kate (masonicboo...), November 7th, 2003.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can someone translate this bit of slang for me? Thanks

XO XO

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

(Academics turn me on!)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Did Nigel really carry a pipe?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Andrew Farrell is cheating on Julio? Scandal!!

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Imagine that.

― Nicolars (Nicole), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

No, but there's this picture of George Barclay in my RAF book where he's wearing his flight jacket and a scarf and everything and smoking a pipe... rowr!!!

Hrmm. Would Nigel Spivey be hottter if he smoked a pipe? Well, his lungs certainly would be.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is a bit like last night's episode of Eastenders when Martin and Sonia are shouting and screaming about how much they hate each other and then they suddenly start making the sex and everything is okay again.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Except prettier.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally has that effect on people.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I bring the love, and the tea. Kisses.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

but only to the in-crowd!

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(This thread has dumbed down considerably, and I love it!)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

my brain was never going to hold together long enough for a serious discussion

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

(I don't believe it was possible for this thread to get any dumb or dumbererer from its inception)

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

in fact some of the posts I made earlier are fucking nuts!

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I do like the way its proved Jess Harvell wrong, though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

there may have been some tears

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I feel like cutting off my typing arm with the paper cutter.

― Nicolars (Nicole), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I do think that the increased number of posters is a HUGE factor in how ILX has changed (for better or for worse). On some of those old threads, you often see two or three people writing REALLY LONG posts back and forth, with no interruption, whereas now there are zillions of x-posts and it's much harder to maintain a logical, point-counterpoint discussion. Also, more people posting means that more voices are straining to be heard, which means that it's more tempting to post quick attention-getters, like jokes and insults.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Derrida wouldn't like that Nicole, uh-uh

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Why was that woman oozing melted butter? It was the fuckin' key lime pie I tell you! Not that you'd give a shit probably, but I like you a lot more after reading this thread, Ronan, simply because you've sparked debate. Sort of. Anyway, ILX hasn't gotten more dumb. When it started I didn't even bother with it because I thought it was just plain dumb and pally and it seemed silly for me to be on it as I was all alone here, but now I love it and I feel smarter for participating.

― Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks Vic.

― Nicolars (Nicole), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

well, i can't get jess to argue with me on I Love Music so i'm posting his replies FOR him. i think this indicates a personal low.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess has a meeting about joining Metallica.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

as a sort of metal bez character

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

with sheeps hearts instead of maracas

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(this most be one of those UK/east coast US threads or something... i just woke up, saw this, and was like wo)

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I think this entire thread is overshadowing a more significant question to the ILX community at large: Where is Ned Raggett??

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I have idly read the entire thread and think the smartest thing I could do is post this message saying I will add nothing more to it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry about hating fun, but I think the "paradox" thread is the type of thread that brings the boards down. It's purely and simply a forum for the "comedians" on the boards where the conceit is so obvious from the start that none of it will actually be funny, with the same tired joke being repeated ad nauseam by people who have a lot to give but prefer the easy sniggers it provides.

(sorry Tuomas, I think you're totally rad, but I wanted to make this point)

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry about hating fun, but I think the "paradox" thread is the type of thread that brings the boards down.

So long as it's confined to one thread, where's the harm in that?

I mean, it's the same as my NS threads. I try to keep it in one place so it doesn't spill out everywhere. I mean, I said I TRY, doesn't mean I'm always successful. ;-)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

just taking attendance, Ned!

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Kate's spivey spillage is a paradox.

― Catty (Catty), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Eeewwww! Thanks Cat. Spivey Spillage just sounds gross.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Kate, yes, good point. But I guess there are several threads of a similar nature, and I get a bit tired with them, that's all. But I certainly wouldn't want to prevent or ban them, so I'll just stop worrying.

(since when did Kate become all rational and helpful and stuff? It's madness!)

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

dear ILE, you have not been entertaining enough lately. Please provide the free jokes and interesting discussions that you were providing last week when I was busy at work and did not post, I am jealous and lonely and hate all of my co-workers.

― PARTY MAGNET, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

And we are trying to restart a really stupid fight why now?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Ideologically, there isn't much difference between complaining about the increasing prevalance of certain types of posts/posters and complaining about the increasing prevalance of certain types of threads. Those who wish to head off arguments like these at the pass by pointing out that we've had this discussion before are playing the same game from a different court.

In the end, I don't find either attempt at control particularly constructive. John D. is right - old-guard malcontents should either take a break or actively try to improve the quality of discussion. On the flipside, I am automatically skeptical of people who are reflexively and angrily dismissive of such complaints. Surely there are more useful responses than, "Hush hush you, ILX is fine."

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I do sometimes wonder if starting threads that are more explicitly designed to provoke "intelligent" discussion is the solution (for those who want more of this, that is). I mean, the Jacques Derrida thread sounds intelligent partly because people are talking about Jacques fucking Derrida! And it's not like people start Derrida threads today and they always degenerate into dick jokes -- if there are a lot of dick jokes on ILX, it's because people start threads called, "Let's make dick jokes!" When "intelligent" questions are asked, people often do respond. (My favorite ILM thread this year remains Sterling's "Class, Indie, Materialism" hoo-ha: a HUGE thread that spawned three sequels, with lots of really, really interesting points made.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, I'm through being snarky. I promise.

When I go to hang out with my friends IRL, sometimes we have a really great time and we hang out for hours and never get bored. Other times when we hang out nobody has anything to talk about and we just sit there and stare at our beers and watch each other play pool and nothing much happens at all and everybody goes home early. This is the same case with every free-form social group I've ever been in. Expecting week-to-week consistency in any social situation is asking for the moon, I think.

Nobody is going to have the same amount of free time or be in the same good mood every day and night. People here are bitching about the past ten days being crap - I've gone for month-long stretches where my friends and I didn't do anything worth remembering.

All of this of course is predicated on my concept of ILX as being mostly pally and chatty from inception - sometimes my friends and I have long-winded 'intellectual' discussions, too - and whether you feel like an "outsider" or not is mostly your own self-perception, I think. What ILX can do for you is entirely dependent on how you approach it.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Good point, Tom.

x-post:

(And when I think to myself, man, I wish there were more conversations like that on ILX, I also realize I could be starting them myself, but more often that not, I'm too lazy and already too unproductive at work, anyway, to get sucked in!)

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Well said Tom. What you get from ILX is up to you. And that's pretty much it.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

The concept of ILE being mostly pally and chatty from inception is the correct one and it is everyone else who has unreasonable expectations.

The first thread ever besides DG's "Hi this is a new board" thread:

I love myself

The second thread ever besides DG's "Hi this is a new board" thread:

I love having my dog lick peanut butter off my balls

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally, you have just made the greatest post in the universe.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

That is because, as evidenced by the first thread ever, I am the greatest most fascinating person who ever lived!!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

what you get from ILX is up to you in the sense that what you get from anything is up to you, you could say that as a reason to not dislike anything ever.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, you have just revealed the secret to my happiness!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

and the key to my unhappiness. (I'm happy really)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

No, see, you couldn't say that about Galliano, for instance. What I get from Galliano is a complete and nasty awful taste in my mouth and it doesn't matter what I'm thinking before I drink it.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh that brilliant analogy clinches it.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, can I ask you a question?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

yes. was that it?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

No. There's a different one.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

John Galliano is totally overrated, see the fashion thread for details.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Go for it.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you think that Nude Spock still wants his dog to lick peanut butter off his balls? That's kind of nasty :/

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Well wang dang doodle.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it is a matter for Nude Spock and his dog.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

if you'd put more into that analogy, Ronan, you could have gotten more out of it. It's your own fault you feel this way.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

right now it's your fault.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I am going to go rethink and tomorrow when I log into Ronan.net I will have a different attitude.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Let me know what are acceptable opinions in future to avoid these situations.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan.net:

http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/images/Ravers.jpg

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh my god.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.xpressdrugtest.com/images/ecstasy.jpg

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Look I like you Tom, normally, I'm sure I've upset you now or you think I'm a dick perhaps, but I don't really want that. I do believe alot of what I said and I think some other people agree with me but didn't pursue it as much as I did maybe. I hope it's no big deal.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow I hope my sysadmin at work never looks at my history, in the past week I have done searches on:

ecstasy
ravers
golf raving
bukake
"amazing ally"
jon spencer

And those are the ones I can share publically! this is the most worrying news ever.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan- if you feel its that terrible then why can't you start a few threads discussing things you want to discuss. It won't solve the 'problem' of boring pic threads but at least you could get more out of it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

You haven't upset me, Ronan. I hope I haven't upset you. I was just egging you on. I understand that in your current situation things can seem exceedingly boring or bleak (or perhaps I don't understand at all, but it's not really important) and I suspect that trying to sort out why ILE does or does not disappoint you lately won't help.

Superboy and the Ravers would be the best pub cover band ever.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

this is the most worrying news ever

Ally, I'm starting to think you could write for Q!

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

my current situation? heh makes it sound like I have a disease or a gorilla living in my house or something.

I am forever doomed to be a rave stereotype particularly after posting that bad Mr C impression on the what do you look like thread.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

ally did you find anything for golf raving?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

No! I also cannot find the picture of Superboy and the Ravers with Gareth's head superimposed onto Superboy and it's the worst day of my life!!!!!!!!!!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

My last searches are:

osaka pink salon
dwarf lifespan
japanese octopus ball
qoo
holzmarktstrasse galerie
supervening
verstehen definition
gout
ruthenian
tailor of dunblane

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Verstehen!! You...beginner

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, so you know all about the methodological hermeneutics of Schleiermacher and Dilthey, eh, Allyzay?

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes. But I don't know the lifespan of a dwarf, I'd be interested in finding that out. What did you discover, Momus-san?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Dumb this down, then, suckers!

I just wanted to know if dwarves can live beyond 36 because I'm writing a story about them, and wanted to make one character 36. Actually Google mostly gave me results about plants, so I assumed there wasn't really a problem with a 36 year-old dwarf, and ploughed on with my story.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I imagine they live to be old, I don't see why they wouldn't. Assuming all they have "wrong" with them is dwarfism and there isn't an underlying medical issue causing the dwarfism, like Kid Rock's poor, poor Joe C.

Also, you might find it fascinating that Schleiermacher's career and training as a Protestant theologian, and classical philologist offered him a first hand experience with hermeneutic praxis!!!!!!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"This is not thread" was high concept, just so ya know.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Next time I won't Google, I'll 'Allyzay'!

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

13) Suddenly...MOMUS!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

So what did you find out about 'bukake' (sic) then?

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

okay, better go check on my pizza, you all are just getting two jel posts today, sorry! See ya, have fun!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The search is actually on "bukkake", I apologize for this. I found many photos of Japanese noodle dishes, and they all looked quite appetizing but the concept of it put me off completely. Either that or it made noodles much...sexier, perhaps?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

You obviously have 'family filter' on.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I am doing these searches at work, so it is highly likely that the "family filter" is automatically turned on. I was v. disappointed with the result of this search to be honest. However, I was not disappointed enough to repeat the search since, on my home computer.

It was "research" for an ILX thread that I decided needed bukkake photography. So I put up noodles instead.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

There was a thread on bukkake?!

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

She said no such thing, merely that there was a thread that needed bukkake.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

That's kind of all threads though, isn't it?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

ILE -- has it cummed up?

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

precisely ally, you have the best judgement ever.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm surprised no one has cited a very good thread on Post-structuralism recently.

Yes, we've lost some very intelligent posters, and I'd be very pleased if Nabisco and Josh started posting ten times a day - but we have gained some very intelligent ones too. I like the mix of styles and approaches here, and have no problem with there being dumb stuff. I'm also a bit mystified by the impulse towards navel-gazing, the inclination to argue about these things rather than to pick out and enjoy the stuff you like best, and to try to instigate more of that kind of thing.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i also like how we can get to the point where the threads cause certain ILXors to threaten taking their own lives.

― Jay Dee Sah Mon (Kingfish), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, I've lurked here since 2001 and it's my opinion that ILE hasn't suffered any degradation of quality at all - bar a lot of the angsty navel-gazing which has been going on lately.

It's ok guys, y'all have a very cool cubbyhouse and it's not going to fall out of the tree any time soon!

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Friday, 7 November 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

ILE -- has it Dumbed Down?

Yes. In the last 36 hours.

― Skottie, Monday, 10 November 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

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