The all new Euro 2004 thread! Olé!

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Because I think we need a new one now the tournament's about to start.

And I've listened to World In Motion four times this afternoon, and I'm really excited.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

continued from here: Euro 2004 draw, prognostications etc

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

World in Motion's shit, though.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

get out Barry

also of interest:

It is time - the ILX Fantasy Euro 2004 thread
Euro 2004 Predictions - OH YES

This is thread where you help me anticipate and somehow feel part of of Euro 2004

Euro 2004-related FAPpage in London (arrange football related FAPs here)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Can we also use this thread for discussions on how to avoid pissing off our SOs while the tournament's on?

Steve, it really is teh suck, I promise you.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yes Monday booked off work in expectance of boozy sunday night, no matter what the score.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

also yes WIM is bad, everyone knows fat les was THE england song

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

TS - Taking the day off when you know you'll waste it with an enormous hangover vs going to work with an enormous hangover?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

on an indier note: Andrew Collins just played "first big weekend of the summer", marvellous, gazza's goal? colin hendry? holland 4-1? isn't it?

also, i'd somehow entirely forgotten that the germans were bottom of our group in euro 2000, until watching the matt smith programme the other night...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck Fat Les, the fat fucks. World In Motion is a well crafted pop record with a great Summer holiday vibe, amusing rap (Vindaloo suffers from not having footballer vocalist) and those all important New Order trademarks. Nothing else has ever or will ever top it (tho i like 'Back Home' a lot as well).

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

New Order were very, very bad when they weren't brilliant.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh shit I wish I'd seen Euro Legends - Euro 2000 is so sketchy in my mind (why has a DVD of it not been released???). Why do people keep referring to it as 'the matt smith programme' - who is matt smith?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

he's the bloke who presents it. he was, also, on premiership on monday, and, PF likes him, i believe, as do i.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Can we also use this thread for discussions on how to avoid pissing on our SOs while the tournament's on?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Remember to go to the toilet no matter how exciting the game is.

Also, remember you SO is not the toilet.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i have finally broken my "going to toilet or getting beer out of fridge during match = goal being scored" curse that led to me missing all four england goals in the holland match...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

My favourite football song will always be (This Time) We'll Get it Right from 1982. We're on our way, we are Ron's 22...

I love Three Lions too.

Fantasy Football is on at 10pm tonight. Get the fuck in.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow. I missed two of the goals during the 5-1 Germany game, and I thought *I* was hard done by!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

What's American coverage like, anyone know? Please someone tell me it is not all PPV.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Hang on, there's a new series of Fantasy Football?! Fucking hell - its a PROPER tournament now!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

But no Jeff Astle for obvious reasons.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

is FF going to be on every night?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I still have Baddiel issues.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned - it is all PPV, though I hear that Fox Sports World or something may show matches. You and me can huddle together in the warmth of this thread.

Did we start an ILX fantasy league or not?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

How are Spain looking this year?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

perpetual dark horses blahblah

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Baddiel aside, Skinner is as sharp as a tack.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned - it is all PPV, though I hear that Fox Sports World or something may show matches. You and me can huddle together in the warmth of this thread.

Good lord. For the first time in eighteen months I miss cable.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I considered getting cable just for the month of June and then cancelling it!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Three Lions easily best England song, yes.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Three Lions sucks. The First Big Weekend, on the other hand... BRING IT ON!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Can't believe anyone dislikes Three Lions. The sound of everyone in Wembley singing it in Euro 1996 sent a chill spinewards.

I still see that tackle by Moore and when Lineker scored, Bobby Belting the ball and Nobby dancing.

You know exactly which specific image each line relates to.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I am waiting for the '40 years of hurt' update. And then 50, 60, etc. I'd like that.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

adam: It is time - the ILX Fantasy Euro 2004 thread

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone know how Greece look this year? Technically they're my second team (family, and that), but I can barely name a player. Is their group entirely hopeless?

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I just looked up the draw. That's a yes, then.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there an eng song for this year's tournament? any good?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Do keep up.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

b-but that's what I use ILX for!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Keeping it up? Which threads, sicko?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the Czech's will win.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I want France to win, if England don't. So we can say Spurs have a Euro Championship-winning manager!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Good prediction jel but I wonder whether they've peaked too early. Hope they go far.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I want Italy to win please, beating England 6-4 in the final. I also want Portugal to beat Greece as I used my free £10 bet from Coral betting on this.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

You really feel more Italian than English, Mark? I had no idea.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i think Greece could get through their group - they took four points from Spain in the qualifying group and didn't concede a goal for the last six games of that campaign, winning the group in some style - no further than the quarters tho.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin Kuranyi will be top scorer.

Portugal are going out early. Figo and Deco don't get on it would seem...

Spurs next season could contain half of the winning Euro 2004 squad, shame they're all like 34 (sorry, ageism, I know)

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I have money on Kevin Kuranyi so I hope you are right. He's also in both my fantasy teams.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 12 June 2004 07:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't see Matt Smith do Euro 2000! Oh no!

I like Dc would like France to win, I think.

I wish Ireland were in it.

I like 'World in Motion' OK, I guess. I don't really like 'Three Lions'. 'Baddiel Issues' is a very mild way of putting it.

I don't understand the talk about pissing.

― the junefox, Saturday, 12 June 2004 09:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick, I've always supported Italy over England if it comes down to it (though I do support England in pretty much any other situation) - probably because when I was little I'd always be watching sport with my dad, whose allegiances are obvious.

How can Kuranyi be the top scorer when they're going out in the 1st round? ;)

― Markelby (Mark C), Saturday, 12 June 2004 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Trevor Brooking's knighthood this year's Geoff Hurst? Well timed incentive for the players to write themselves into history, turn themselves into household names, arise Sir David Beckham etc?

And why Trevor Brooking rather than anyone else?

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 12 June 2004 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Germany are going to the final, they always do, I'd rather they won than France, by virtue of liking more German music than French.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

BBC are using 'Good Luck' as their theme it seems - lovely

but Germany are terrible jel, and unlike the World Cup this time they actually have to play several quality European teams

sticking with my France v Italy final prediction myself

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 12 June 2004 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Trevor Brooking has worked in all sorts of public sporting areas since his playing career ended - public service is always a good way to a gong. Adding the quality of his playing, and that pretty much everyone likes him, and it doesn't surprise me at all.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 12 June 2004 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

But a knighthood? Seems a bit extreme, and just a little conveniently timed to give the nation a boost pre-Euro 2004.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 12 June 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"Good luck in your new bed?"

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 June 2004 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I AM SO EXCITED!

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 June 2004 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

YES, just waiting for a pizza then off to the pub to maybe catch some opening ceremony silliness

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 12 June 2004 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I am supposed to be going to the Twee In The Park and missing today's games. It's a bit cloudy and I am secretly hoping that it will be full by the time I get there.

Dance, and shake your funky tambourine!!!

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 June 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't understand the talk about pissing.
-- the junefox

Um, could it be that you mean the same pissing post upthread that I was baffled by, the goalfox?
I mean --

Can we also use this thread for discussions on how to avoid pissing on our SOs while the tournament's on?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 12 June 2004 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

See further upthread for illumination.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 June 2004 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

T -1:47

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 12 June 2004 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Right, I'm up. It's 8:37 in the morning here. I have Radio 5 on. I"M EXCITED!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

*loads up page* Hey wait, I'm hearing cricket!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

COME ON GREECE!

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Now I'm hearing tennis? Am I missing which online channel I need from the Radio 5 homepage? Been clicking on the 'listen to Euro 2004' links...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah okay, they just confirmed that this IS the right station, so all is well.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha! "We're about ready to start the opening ceremonies, which thankfully is only nine minutes long..."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

And FWIW, Radio 5's schedule:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/euro2004/schedule.shtml

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm gonna get some maroon & white facepaint for Tuesday evening. Short lads lead the way...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"But a knighthood? Seems a bit extreme, and just a little conveniently timed to give the nation a boost pre-Euro 2004."

Who knows if that was the reason, if so it's a bit useless - Brooking isn't associated with any success at international level,
they could've chosen players from the '66 team yet to be knighted -
Gordon Banks, Alan Ball, Jack Charlton etc.
In any case why do we need to feel guilty about this?
They wouldn't sweat the concept of the team being given some sort of
a morale boost by the government on the continent (but then you're not english are you ailsa? ;- ))

Also, it's been said before, but considering the kind of people who
do get get these top honours (especially in the last century),
Brooking is at least if not more deserving than most of the recipients.

― de, Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

We need Dave Q here to talk about these anthems.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the Greek one.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

English radio suddenly sounds so weeeeeird.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Quite alien. Anyway, COLLINA AS REF. That's all I need to know.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yay! first foul!

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

collina has retired hasn't he?

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

oh!

there he is, must be retiring after the tournament, hope Italy don't get to the final for him.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

GOAL! for the Greeks!

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

!!!!!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

There goes my prediction.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Did anyone see it?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Raaaaah!

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Greek Kebab Knifes the Portuguese Sardines Net

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Bah, I missed the goal, I had to go switch laundry. Amazing!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

you Euro-phile Ned !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

rubbish midfield play from the Portugese, let the guy run with the ball, low shot from outside area beating a pedestrian keeper into the bottom right corner.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

What happened to Vitor Baia?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

you Euro-phile Ned !

Yay me!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Vitor Baia retired from international football, I think. Maldini has for Italy too.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

here in the u.s.
fox sports runs a marathon
of all euros past

but they failed to get
rights to show the bloody games.
rupert you've been served.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned, where would you play Steven Gerrard, assuming 4-4-2, or would you indeed ask him to play the holding role in a diamond?

― de, Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Styris given out, but he didn't touch it!

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Opps, wrong thread!

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

a first yellow of the tournament, then

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

terrible header from Rui Costa, has he ever been good?

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned, where would you play Steven Gerrard, assuming 4-4-2, or would you indeed ask him to play the holding role in a diamond?

I haven't seen Gerrard actually play anything (even in clips) for a couple of years, so hard for me to say, see. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

no one asked me but
I would play gerrard out back
(of the stadium)

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

*rimshot*

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to play Fifa 2004 while I listen to this. I need some visuals, man.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

jel - wasn't Costa quite good 4 years ago?

Ned - how's the laundry?

Begs2Differ - yer unfair!

Greeks -- great save!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned - how's the laundry?

Currently drying.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, Costa has always had this great rep, but I can't recall seeing him play anything better than well.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The cricket updates on Radio 5 are amusing.

"Yes, HELLO, here is what our ELEGANT game is doing..."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Figo looking not happy kinda gladdens me...

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

"Figo's got the full pout on" (Mark Lawrenson)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

'Cor! Rah! Gloat! Halftime!

The Greek keeper looks great, I wish England had one of him. Figo is scaring me shitless, he's like Ally Cook, Joe Cole but brilliant.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, that sounds like Portugal just screwed up.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Spectacular upset on the cards!

― de, Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

me likes wot me seen!!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

me want to see too!!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Well not spectacular, I did actually fancy them to do alright in the tournament but I still predicted a 3-0 defeat in this game because I thought the Portuguese would be fast out of the traps..

― de, Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

This is where I say that your Radio 5 people should avoid the jokes.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"jokes"

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, you mean they ARE the jokes?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

My Fifa 2004 scores:

Portugal 1:0 Greece
Spain 0:2 Russia

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

So is Ronaldo actually any good? I haven't seen him play for ManU at all.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

C. Ronaldo is the new George Best !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronaldo is good at fancy dribbling. He doesn't necessarily produce a good ball at the end of it.

Oh, he's just scored.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Something but not enough -- Greece over Portugal 2-1 final.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Greek Kebab-tastic 2 Portugal Sardines 1

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

just finished watching - always fun to start things out with a pretty major upset. Greece impressed me quite a bit - Seitaridis and Dellas, especially, were both absolutely astounding. I think they have a very solid chance at beating Russia and with a bit of luck might even walk away with something from the Spain game.

Portugal? I guess they can be happy they got one goal. I smell France 02 all over this bunch.

― hedgehogofdeath, Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronaldo had his usual game, mostly: lots of fancy stuff and beating players, and then delivering crosses or passes that either go straight to the nearest opposition defender, or float nowhere near any team-mates.

Rui Costa was terrific some years ago, I think - I've seen him do great things. But he does look past it now.

I thought it was weird how long Portugal persisted with just one real striker when behind.

Greece were very good. Lots of tidy play and variation, very good defending.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm tellin ya, Spain will win the tournament.

― Pingu, Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

(Vasco da Gama! Ferdinand Magellan! Your boys, etc!)

Happy.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Spain, hoof it up to the big lad, none of that fancy passing stuff.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 12 June 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought in the first 15 minutes Spain were going to take Russia apart, but I thought Russia had the best of the last 15 minutes of the half. An interesting game, and unpredictable.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 12 June 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, goal! 1-0 Spain.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

And that's the final. Rah. Roll on tomorrow.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

So 1-0 the final score, then.

The next round should be rather interesting for these teams - I think Spain beating Portugal and Greece besting Russia is a relatively plausible scenario, which would throw the hosts out before the group stage is even finished. Whatta disaster that would be.

Spain looked very strong. I think they'll be in the semis at the very least. Then again, that's been said before.

― hedgehogofdeath, Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

ah, my bad - those match-ups will of course not occur until the thirs round. mea culpa!

― hedgehogofdeath, Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Spain top the group, Greece finish second, I'd think... But then again...

Greece going forward aren't that threatening - Karagounis' goal was the only really good shot they had - Charisteas carved the odd opening but never looked like finishing them with any great skill, lakis was fairly anonymous, and Stelios ran about to fair effect. However, defensively they were pin-sharp - as said above, Dellas had a superb game, the right-back looked pretty handy too. They're more than good enough to keep out Russia, and probably have a decent chance of scoring too.

Spain and Russia were both wasteful going forwards, getting into good positions then proceeding to do absolutely bugger-all with them. Spain just ended up having more chances by virtue of their greater inventiveness, passing and attacking play. Exteberria looked particularly dangerous.

Portugal, though... once they went one down they panicked and got a load of possession that they appeared not to have the faintest idea what to do with. Crosses were pinged in with no-one on the end. Everywhere they looked the Greeks cut them off. They perspired all over, but the Greeks were way too cunning and clever for them.

What this could mean, though, is that Portugal get backed into the corner and have to come out raging against the Russians, who again seem tough to break down, but who just look that notch below the Greeks, and maybe, maybe they can get something out of that game, maybe just a 1-0 win or something like that, which will then set up a very good game against Spain.

Leaving Spain-Greece, which is a bugger to predict. Spain managed to get a lot of opportunities against Russia that they did nothing with. Greece might be better at punishing the profligacy. Same time, Spain might be better at getting past the Greek defence than the Portuguese were. I'm pretty sure Greece haven't quite got the wherewithal to beat Spain, but it'll hinge on whether Spain have what it takes to beat them. We shall see.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yay! Greece will fuck you up!!

― cypriot poster, Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

My decision to holiday in Greece next week is looking like a very good one!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

You can rob all the vacant houses!

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronaldo was a man fighting alone. Why can't Figo make a far post run, if Portugal is only gonna play one man up top?

I thought the Surinam-Guatemala game was much better.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

It would be perfectly reasonable for Figo to make such a run, if he were a different player, and if on many occasions he hadn't been playing on the same side as Ronaldo. It would be a good run for someone to make, but persistently crossing the ball there when no one is remotely near making any such run is hopeless.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 12 June 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I kinda wish that Alienichev had scored when he cut through the Spanish defence. Spurs should buy him.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 07:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah the last 15 mins of the 1st half of the spain-russia were the best period of the game and it started with that move. That second half was garbage tho', Spain scored and russia did fuck all.

Extebbaria is a good player but was allowed to look dangerous.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 13 June 2004 09:05 (twenty-two years ago)

EXCITED.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 13 June 2004 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Extebarrya?

I lost my free £10 bet with Coral on bloody Portugal. Gah!

― Markelby (Mark C), Sunday, 13 June 2004 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I enjoyed the cynical body check by Abelda (sp?) and the foul on Mostovoi on the half way line. Spain have a dirty edge, they'll do well. Though, there should never have been so many yellow cards in that match. Also, Torres, sort you hair out mate, shaven sides mullet, wtf??

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 10:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Is this the first belated-but-obviously-second-wave mullet football has seen?

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 13 June 2004 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

There seemed to be a few mullets in the Nationwide Div 1 this (last) season - Darren Ward (Millwall) and Shaun Derry (Palace) both seemed to go for the crusty-ish mullet.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

we all ready for later chaps?

I think Croatia will be a tough team to play against, but if we keep the ball and close them down in midfield I think we've got a chance.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

gotta get the beers in!

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Beers now got in Chez Snnappe.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

mine will be a beerless viewing as i got barred from my local on friday night and i dont like drinking on my own. but this is great coz it means i can stay on the iternet while both games are on.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Talking of Croatia... isn't their chess-board red and white top just one of the most ghastly shirt designs ever?

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Fantasy football league - cunts the lot of them. can't stand either of the twats, though Three Lions rocks hard. G OTM re England 1982 song.

So, to the matches.

Portugal pay the price for not being able to have a line-leader. Everyone knows how to play them now - press midfield and watch their lack of shape be their undoing. Greece played like a english side in europe away from home. Very competent, but nothing to fear for an england side sued to that kind of game. Charisteas lead the line marvellously and Andrade really is a bit rub, as is Couto, but I've always though that.

Spain - Russia was a better match, but I thought Spain flattered to deceive - they have good players, but seemed somewhat fragile - they dipped noticeably when the Russians absorbed their pacey start.

Anyway. I'm off to become a dribbling idiot, rendered insensible with excitment.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaguely awake here from the Dizzee/Streets show last night (Mr. Skinner was talking in his inimitable fashion about the game today -- "England are playing France tomorrow. They're going to BEAT France tomorrow!") and will fire up the Radio 5 coverage here momentarily.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

ned so europhile he *listen* to even the switz'land-croatia game
ok-ah-haaa!!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 13 June 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

5Live played 'Irish Blood, English Heart' over a Wayne Rooney build-up yesterday.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 13 June 2004 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

ned so europhile he *listen* to even the switz'land-croatia game

;-) I mean, I *may* step out for part of the match to do some shopping...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

...with the headphones on, net streaming da game, yes?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 13 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Only if I had a wireless connection to bring with me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Croatia-Switzerland as rubbish as the Guardian's commentary is suggesting?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Dunno 'bout Guardian's comments but the game really has been helter-skelter, and not necessarily interestingly so.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

And it's over, nil-nil draw. Yeah, it felt sorta blasé.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The whistle. Argh, a bloody mess it mostly was. Though the Swiss, while down to ten men, put up a good fight in the end.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Grebt result for england. Awful game. Niggly, card ridden. Croatia were hateful - Mornar had a look of a man I'd like to slap, they were in general petulant brats, diving and looking for fouls when they could have played on. Their fan chants were postively Nuremburg sounding - low, tuneless chants - not songs.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

The keeper stopping the ball going over the line with his head is very defintely Moment #1 of the tournament.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Heheh, that well tuned head-touch looked utterly k-kool indeed!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

the ball is rubbish.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

it looks like it's made of cheap recycled plastic from electric kettles.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

not so long to go now...

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Why the fuckity fuck fuck fucking fuck are ITV showing us an advert for the fucking game? We're watching the show YOU STUPID COMMERICAL COCKFARMERS so fuck off. And you too Lynam, with your cheeky conspiratorial crapola. Southgate? Townsend? HEIN? Why oh why wasn't this on the BBC etc.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I have just woken up from the snoozefest long enough to transfer several Frenchmen into my other (non-ilx) fantasy team. Am now off to the pub to keep my fingers crossed...

(xpost - Lineker "it's big action here on the BBC tonight - the Latin-American section of Celebrity Come Dancing". Bitter? Nah...)

I wuv Strachan, btw.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

So apparently there's some weird crush getting into the stadium? Or at least that's what radio is saying...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Strachan was grebt on 5Live commentary last night for Spain.

Southgate warming up, El Tel emphatic, dave B only able to make shallow breaths.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Des just said "cock-up". Hurhurhur.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there a good enough site that uploads pictures from the match pretty quickly? Audio only is a touch frustrating!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't sense *any* disrespect to the French anthem at all!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there a good enough site that uploads pictures from the match pretty quickly?

BBC does update during matches, I think, but not sure how quickly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/photo_galleries/3790165.stm

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks! Game underway...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

So ITV have Bobby Robson, i am looking forward to him getting names mixed up

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ooh, Trezeguet header very close....

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"England's midfield keeping possession nicely" = "can't get the ball up into the goal area for toffee"

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I think this other commentator (not bobby) is a little too enthusiastic.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"Gerard goes down..." = "Perfectly timed tackle by Gallas"

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Get in !!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Lampard scores, 1-0 England!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

beckham's right foot: cross

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

*sound of the ILX british collective's heads exploding en masse*

― hedgehogofdeath, Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Fucking hell. I can't remember having been so nervous for a game; even the 96 semi. I want it to be over now. From the first whistle, Ive been praying for the final whistle. It hurts too much.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

How soon's the next goal a-gonna come? And whose, eh? ;)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Half time obviously.

Tyldesley watch - many mentions of Man U. None of 99 Euro Cup final yet. There's time though. Bobby Robson endearingly analytical - good stuff, but not what want to hear from co-commentator. Why did Bigotron turn out to be well, bigotron?

Anyway. Once more unto the breach dear friends. remember Agincourt! etc.

― Kevin K (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Other thoughts - Scholes is the link man for swicthing on attack, but defensively, the rench are having far far more joy down the left -- Pires and gallas plus one other are getting joy against Scholes and Cole. owen not had a decent pass in front of him - his job seems to be to hold a highline and create space for rooney, who's having an immense game. 18 years old and clattering Zidane. What a geezer.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Bobby Robson endearingly analytical - good stuff, but not what want to hear from co-commentator.

There was a bit where he went on and on, and I could almost hear CT going, "Err, thanks, Bob... shut up... SHUT UP... SHUT THE **** UP"

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yellow card for Scholes (tackle on Vieira)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

England are probably the best of the teams I've seen so far.

I don't understand why France are playing so narrow, though. Pires has hardly pulled wide at all in the second half.

Ooh, penalty! (to England)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

But solid save by Barthez! Good moment of drama, though!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Drama at the Stadium of Light

Rooney Runs into the box...dirty Man Ure player Sylveste brings him down, ...and then lucky shot stopper Barthez saves penalty from Beckham !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Heskey on Rooney off

Hargreaves on Scholes off

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Tyldesley: "Arsenal have made a change"!!!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Pfft.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

that was coming

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Great goal though

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

David "Standing Like a Dummy" James

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Fabulous free-kick though.

Oh goodness, penalty to France!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

well there go our "street parties of celebration"

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Good grief.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I think overall the second half belonged to France, they deserved the win.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

football is a cruel game, Brian Clough: it only takes a second to score a goal

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Hell of a way to end, that. Commentary on the penalty on Radio 5 was that it was 'suicidal.'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

and it was STEEVIE GEEE with a hideous back pass

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

We were up against it in the second half. I'm not surprised. France dominated but they weren't excellent, and they've won. Fear them for the rest of the tournament.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Both penalty-givers (as it were) should have been sent off, nes pas?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

England players will be like a wounded animal, fear the backlash

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Hands up who thinks Owen was carrying a hamstring tweak again?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I blame the game being on ITV.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, how shite was the commentary on ITV? And how awful was the picture, all boxed-in?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha, x-post.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

France had two shots and scored, they had more of the play, but no way did they deserve to win...and that's not just stunned disbelief talking. The draw would have been the fair result.

Silveste shoulda been sent off, but so should James.

At least Ledley King played okay, and Rooney was great.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I had expected England to lose, but thought they performed well and France were pushing but not actually creating that many chances, and I thought England were actually going to win it.

But Zidane's free kick was fantastic.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

should've had a man on the line < /smug panel hasbeen>

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, ITV commentary is awful. They have never found a successor to Brian Moore.

Mind you, I only like Mottie and Davies on the Beeb.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Emile heskey fucking cost us that game, he should never be allowed to put an england shirt again. We've got to get someone who can take penalties bcz beckham might not be up to it from now on.

France did deserve a draw but we defended really well in the second half. We should have enough for the swiss and the croats but who knows after this.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

to cheer the english up ...tune into

http://www.xfm.co.uk

sometime between 10pm-11pm Claro Intellecto [superb electronic music artist will be doing a live mix]

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

if only England had selected Chris Sutton and Defoe in the squad !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

England have finally been mugged in the way they've done to so many teams in the past - when Zidane's free kick went in I was waiting for the inevitable "that's not fair"s round these parts, although it would have been no different to Beckham's vs Greece.

The whole match looked exactly like Greece vs Portugal - artisans (who couldn't create anything) being held off by plucky cloggers (who scored with the only genuine chance of the match).

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah bloody Heskey, should've been standing on the half way line, so that the defence could hoof it up to the big lad.

I think Gerrard will cop it in the papers, which will be unfair.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

There wasn't much wrong with Beckham's penalty - he hit it hard enough, but maybe a touch too central and too mid-height. Credit to Barthez for saving it. DJ's challenge on Henry was rash as all hell. Gerrard's backpass well out of character. Heskey's clumsy tracking back not so.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

World Cup 2006 will Chris Kirkland be England's Number 1?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Sutton? Surely not. He thrives against SPL defences but has shown he is no longer up to the Premiership.

But agreed, I'd put Defoe ahead of Vasell.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

That penalty was fucking garbage nick. You don't hit it hard, its all about placement and being cool. Beckham hurried it for a start.

Loved the way Zidane took his time and then delay the actual kick by just...a...bit.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think that David James really had much choice given the disaster he was presented with (from a Manchester City fan, I might add).

But - PPFFFTTT. I was going to lose money until the 93rd minute! My 2-1 gamble has paid!!!

(x-post)

World Cup 2006 will Chris Kirkland be England's Number 1?

I doubt it somewhat. James, contrary to popular belief, is an excellent keeper.

― ___ (___), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd have had Defoe ahead of Owen on form for the last three months. Same as Italy should do with Cassano over Del Piero.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

It's be funny if France lose their next two, that's what I'm going to dream of tonight.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Zidane's placement of his penalty was unstoppable.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

"It was a good height for the keeper"

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

wow nice one guys

― dave q, Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(beck's pen I mean)

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

phew, just got to the remote in time, don't think I could've taken Baddiel and Skinner.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Lets face it. Rooney should have been allowed to take the penalty. He was having the game of his life, and would have scored it easy.

The joy of post-match hypothetics...

― ___ (___), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

haha piss off dave like you can bloody talk after calgary lost ot florida in the stanley cup. or something.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Baddiel & Skinner seems to be live...

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, they did run the recent prerecord advert of stato celebrating Englands victory!

― ___ (___), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

ITV misjudge mood shockah.

Utterly fucking shellshocked. I was annoyed with heskey for the free kick, which was ominous, bu7t thinkiing 1-1 was OK - country doesn't go spastic, feet on ground. Fear of loss is that they're gobsmacked, and we must get a result against Croatia.

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK WAS GERRARD DOING? When he went over when Cole was about the hoof it up the pitch, I thought, OK , Gerrard will be cool. DICKSHIT. Also, Heskey lost the ball giving the French possession. let the record reflect.

Upside - if we get out the of the group (on today's performances, we should be getting the better of Croatia and switzerland) we eventually meet the frenchies in the final and whup their garlic munching asses. France didn't really trouble us - they could shoot from distance all night (Zidane dead balls the obv exception).

Downside - we did not get a shot in on goal from open play. Erikkson should have brought midfield relief on 65 mins - we'd surrendered the pitch and Scholes was knackered - Butt and hargreaves shoulod ahve comeon then to defend higher.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I just watched this game in the local English-expats pub, and by the end we were as gutted as everyone else. It might not be on the scale of Holland-Italy 2000 (with 2 missed penalties in regular playing time), but it sure felt like it. France have definitely replaced Germany as THE despicable last-minute-winners and I hate the squad even more than after Euro 2000 (where *every* single game they won was undeserved).

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Siegbran, I love you. Come join us, all haters of l'equipe de fucking France.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Good free-kick though.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never been prouder to be Scottish.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 13 June 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Now that was some depressingly bad football hygiene. Beck's missed penalty and the bringing on of France's penalty. In a rather short time England soiled its pretty pants twice. Which's samthung very, very unwelcome. :(

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 13 June 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread has cheered me up a bit, strangely. Baddiel and fucking Skinner didn't. Who wants to watch that shit after that?

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 13 June 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh, what a match. I'm from NI so not fussed about England really but I thought they deserved a draw. The defeat was harsh. They should beat Croatia and Switzerland though and go through.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Sunday, 13 June 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I swear if Beckham's penalty had gone in the keeper would've 'had no chance.' I can only grudgingly respect the dude based on that save. Course he then fumbled a piss-easy save straight after in time-honoured Barthez fashion.

Owen does nothing, Steven Gerrard makes The Worst Backpass Ever, D James then thinks 'oh no, this is making me remember when I played for Liverpool and was shit and addicted to Tomb Raider, how will I save this penalty from The Greatest Living Frenchman?' = let's blame Liverpool.

― Fergal (Ferg), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, fucking shit cunt bastard motherfucker etc.

― Fergal (Ferg), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

England might have deserved a draw - sort of - but what a way to set out to play a match against a team with France's quality. Let them have the ball as much as possible and pack the box. How sophisticated, Sven. Hope we score on the break.

France were the better team, with the better players ,playing the better football. England played - a ten/fifteen minute spell in the first half aside - a terrible hit& hope game. Rooney's ability to hold up play and tie up 2 defenders at a time made England seem better than they actually were.
It says a lot that the two tyros - Rooney & King - were probably England's best performers. The other big names were absent. Owen utterly anonymous. Beckham not much better - does he even deserve a starting place on current form? Scholes had some nice touches in the first half but faded. Gerrard and Lampard were made to look average by Viera and Zidane.

Still, Switzerland & Croatia bith looked awful in the other game so England should qualify anyway...

― David N (David N.), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

..xpost - and Heskey's Liverpool as well.
GRRR

― Charlton Apple, Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

He's Blues now isn't he.

Not that this shouldn't make me hate him more, given my unfortunate geographical location.

― Fergal (Ferg), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Which is further away from Aston than Small Heath, but WHATEVVVER

― Fergal (Ferg), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not going to blame Gerrard. Is that the first game he's played in that England have lost?

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

In the BBC interview at half time of the Croatia-Switzerland shitfest S Gerrard was well/a bit above the usual 'yeah well obviously we'll just see what happens and hope for the three points' twat footballer interview, so I liked him. But now this.

Still, as long as C Benoit doesn't lose at a pretend sport...

― Fergal (Ferg), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"let's all laugh at England, let's all laugh at England, ha ha ha ha" = chant in my local tonight.

I spent 89 minutes regretting putting seven French players + Wayne Rooney in my non-ilx fantasy league (which I am now top of, wahey!)

*sound of the ILX british collective's heads exploding en masse*
Britain /= England < /wankishness>

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

At times like this I console myself with the opening bars of "All You Need Is Love" by those other no-mark Scousers.

― White Van Man (GerryNemo), Sunday, 13 June 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't anyone notice the ILXishness of Gygax coming on to play for Switzerland this afternoon?

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 13 June 2004 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

How does it all seem now we've slept, eh?

Owen & beckham, supposedly England's two best players over the last four or so years, were both extremely poor. Gerrard was OK, but, as usual, awed into inferiority by Vieira, who didn't have an amazing game by his standards but still totally dominated the midfield in the second half. Rooney was very good; the only England player to scare the French, and he did it consistently and effectively. I think they should have let him take the penalty. Ledley King was a big plus point; very calm, very assured, seemed to catch the eye clearing, intercepting and tackling more than Sol did. Scholes, who was magnificent against Iceland, looked like he didn't know where to go. He is a great first-time passer of the ball, his movement and positioning are fantastic, his touch and awareness are great, but with the ball at his feet an no apparent quick pass to make he looks lost.

We defended too deep and relied too much on long balls and failed counter attacks. How many times did King/Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard seem content to hump it forward again, to no one in particular? No other European team of any note does this with any regularity. Owen has lost pace and drive, and neither he nor Rooney are target men. You can say it's alright to play long passes when you've got Gerrard & Beckham in your team, but on last night's form it obviously isn't. International football is about posession, and if you keep losing it you're not going to win.

I'm not gutted that we lost, because I expected us to, but I am gutted as to the manner in which we lost. And I don't mean in the injury time; France weren't great, they were average-to-good. We were just poor. Apart from the penalty, the goal, and the one when Barthez nose-butted the ball on the bounce, I don't recall us having a single shot, and France only managed about half a dozen (most of those hopelessly awry from outside the box too).

I wish we'd taken Defoe; on form I'd pick him over Owen at the moment, and again his youth & guile might prove as effective as Owen did in 98. I think Beckham ought to be dropped and Gerrard made captain; we've all see how he's raised his game at Liverpool this season and taken on extra responsibility, there's no reason why he couldn't do that for England too. Stick him in the middle of the pitch and build the team around him.

For the next game I'd play 3-5-2, with Terry, King and Campbell at the back, A. Cole on the left, G. Neville on the right, Butt holding, Lampard & Gerrard in the middle, and Rooney upfront with... Heskey, or maybe Vassell. If Heskey made space for Owen at Liverpool, imagine what Rooney could do with that space for England.

Saying this, I bet Beckham & Owen will have blinders on Thursday.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 14 June 2004 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)

We weren't poor. The lack of chances was a worry but hey, France scored their two from set pieces too. It was that sort of game. And Rooney's unpredictability stopped things from ever getting stale.

There's no reason other than morale for England not to beat Croatia and Switzerland comfortably.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 06:58 (twenty-one years ago)

We were OK in the first half, but when France started playing in the second we were up against it, even if they didn't create many shooting opportunities. They had us pinned back and there was fuck all we could do about it = we were poor. One break and Rooney won a penalty.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:03 (twenty-one years ago)

So France had some good spells. What do you expect?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Bosko Balaban Stats For Season

Name Bosko Balaban
Team Aston Villa
Total Appearances 0
Starts 0
Substituted 0
Total Minutes Played 0
Avg Minutes Played Per Start 0
Goals 0
Avg Goal Mins When Starting 0.0
Avg Mins Played/Goal Scored 0
Goals Scored As Sub 0
Number of Bookings 0
Total Booking Minutes 0
Avg Bookings Per Start 0
Number of Red Cards 0
Total Red Card Minutes 0
Avg Red Cards Per Start 0

― bosko, Monday, 14 June 2004 07:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't want to be argumentative. Perhaps you just have higher expectations of England than I do (mine aren't low). As far as I'm concerned it was in at the fucking deep end and the team acquitted themselves pretty damn well against the tournament favourites and were 2 minutes from winning, even if a win would have maybe been slightly flattering. I see no reason why they can't put it behind them, beat Croatia and Switzerland and move on.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't bring myself to join Boyler's Francophobes - too much Giresse, Platini, Amoros, Tresor in the bloodstream. There are many nations to whom a defeat of this sort would have felt much worse.

I wanted The Roon to chip Barthez just before Silvestre lunged in.

Anyway, it's only a group match - four points will probably see us through. To play Spain (can we get the same linesman as '96?).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I agree, I think we should still qualify, but I am very disappointed that the 'big' players didn't stand up and be counted.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I counted them anyway. There were about seven.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Result aside I have to say Rooney was fantastic, by far the most exciting England player since erm, Michael Owen in '98, A box of tricks, you just didn't know what he was going to do next. If he's given his head, and doesn't lose it, then he'll be the breakthrough player of the tournament.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah well, at least England won't be playing on Friday at Glasto, now.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway. I hate football. I hate Euro2004. I hate England. I hate Beckham. I hate Heskey. I hate Gerrard. I hate David James. I hate The Liverpool Connection which somehow managed to throw everything away.

I like Ledley King and Wayne Rooney though. They were huge. Rooney dubbing up Zidane = amazing. He should have passed to Vassell though, just before going down.

That hurt more than any England result since Argentina in 1998. Beckham's penalty was not a bad shot, it was however a great save from Barthez. He read the situation perfectly.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:58 (twenty-one years ago)

my (south african) boss was trying ot be all matey and "aw, it was a shame, eh?" and i was [gritted teeth] "i really can't talk about it"[/gritted teeth]

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:28 (twenty-one years ago)

kiwi girl here was "and you got pasted in the rugby too" good job I was kinda glad about that otherwise there would have been trouble.

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel absolutely lifeless this morning.

Small consolation in Switzerland and Croatia looking easily beatable. I guess it depends on the squad putting this game out of their minds.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

blah blah England deserved the win based on confident defending of slim lead Italian style blah blah

a huge sense of inevitability about the whole thing. i never believed France would lose their first match AGAIN even tho they didn't play particularly well at all - otoh maybe it was just time England lost their opening match (for the first time since 1988)

i blame nobody for the defeat - nobody at all. except the brilliant Zidane.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:51 (twenty-one years ago)

1988 = 2000, heh

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Zidane's free kick was a thing of horrific beauty.

Monsieur Cocq, our arrogant Frenchman at work, was suprisingly humble today. He said he thought England's passing was fantastic in the first half (which is was - Gerrard, Scholes and Lampard all so fluid in midfield, like no one on the opposing team knew where they were going to be at any given time), and that he thought we'd meet together in the final.

Both Croatia and Switzerland looked pretty poor. There's consolation in that.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

perhaps Italy '94 are England's model, meaning Owen won't come good until the quarters, Baggio style. convinced France will make the final (unfortunately last night was exactly how championship winning teams win games, even when they're not crucial). had England somehow won, we would all be talking about them as likely winners of the tournament, regardless of any flaws perceived. excellent composure (likewise the Greeks on Saturday).

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

also, now i know how bayern munich felt (i asume CT did get a mention to it in late doors last night, i was too busy wailing and gnashing)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Good parallel with Bayern. I've never even considered how they felt before.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I could murder a sausage and a fizzy lager

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

France have definitely replaced Germany as THE despicable last-minute-winners

So what? In the..ahem...cosmic scheme of things they still own about two tournaments of continous luck to balance the injustices of the 78/82/86 worldcups.

― Omar (Omar), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Bayern didn't throw it away in quite such a spectacular fashion, though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, Hiya Omar!

how will Holland do tomorrow?

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

how will Holland do tomorrow?

Hi Chris, they will be shite. :)
(no vision, no real playmaker, too much arrogance based on nothing, the least likeable Holland team evah). Germany don't look too good either, so probably a draw.

― Omar (Omar), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Just as Zidane was preparing to take his free kick, you could hear the tannoy announcer describing a small boy (I think) who had gotten lost in the stadium.
I wonder 1) was he reunited with parents 2) did this put James off?

― Joe Kay (feethurt), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Bayern threw it away in an even worse fashion!

I must say as disappointed as I was for England after the second goal I said to myself, with Keano-like disgust, "yeah mention United versus Bayern now Tyldsley you tedious FOOL!"

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i phoned oliver khan and he agreed, it was ridiculous.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I have found myself inexplicably warming to David James lately - partly because on football diaries he seems a nice, bright and utterly professional chap. I was even pleased he didn't get sent off, which would have led to Robinson (my preferred choice) taking his position. Strange.

I was gutted when England lost, but at 6.45 tonight you can all think of me when Italy, sitting back defending a 6th minute lead, go one better than England and let in three in the last 15 seconds. Have I said lately how much I loathe and detest Trapattoni? I want that man to die.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Ledley King had a good game. I also saw Paul Scholes tackle at least three times! Beckham was crap, apart from the cross that led to the goal. Drop him, move Gerrard out to the right, bring in Butt or Hargreaves to shore up the midfield. Thought?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Scholes even got the ball in the tackle. Technically David James should have been red carded, but so should have Silvestre. I guess the referee was being inconsistently consistent.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Dropping your captain is somewhat demoralising. Especially when he's just missed a penalty in a big match and set up an important goal.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

You can't drop the captain.

xpost

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't really see why people are being anti-duckface, i thought he did ok last night, esp. in the first half. the pen was unfortunate, but there you go...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Did anyone see James' interview on the BBC highlights show?

Interviewer: So, David, sum up the game in one word for us
James: Football.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

accurate, if predictable

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

never a truer word spoken

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

such is football, such is life

(thanks for that Alan Green)

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Beckham won't be dropped.

We will see what gerrard is made of in the next match.

It feels horrible, my co-worker and I were very enthusiastic abt the cricket but we would not talk abt this. 'Only after the swiss game'.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Duckface? This isn't a tennis thread, you know. If you mean Beckham, then he was caught out of position a lot, failed in the tackle, his passing was poor - he looked like he wasn't concentrating.

I know he won't be dropped, but he needs to be made aware of his deficiencies.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:32 (twenty-one years ago)

he came up with quite a few decent tackles Mark, I thought.

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I think he all too aware of his deficiencies, Mark. But he SET UP THE GOAL! Which is what he's there to do. This is very important.

All players have poor games, Beckham has looked off the ball a bit for the past few games though but this is the sort of catalyst for a brilliant redemption type performance.

I'm not sure a Butt or a Hargreaves would have made a huge amount of difference to that game because central midfield was not where the problem lay. The fact that Owen was so quiet was more worrying.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm really excited about seeing Italy tonight. I'm skipping breaks and leaving early so I can watch it. Please please please pick Cassano over Del Piero!

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

The one truly hilarious moment of the match was Beckham thinking Lampard had headed wide.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:38 (twenty-one years ago)

also Lampard's gesture to FRENCHPLAYER which got him booked

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Why is everybody so pleased with Rooney? He really wasn't that good. Seems like only Matt noticed the obviuos.
"He should have passed to Vassell though, just before going down."

Fuck, yeah, Vassel was all alone, but Roon was fuckin' selfish. I remember everybody saying the exact same things about Owen, his talent, and his greatness, and look at him now. A fine player. But nowhere near greatness.

And Lampard is the most annoying footballer since Sinisa Mihajlovic.

― Pingu, Monday, 14 June 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

everyone in the pub aghast at Rooney not knocking it to Vassell...seconds later euphoria as if we'd scored another goal.

the emotional rollercoaster of last night did at least enforce why football is so fantastic, for me - and how it's always big drama with England on such occasions.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I am not trusting a Finnish duck's opinions on football.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:46 (twenty-one years ago)

The one truly hilarious moment of the match was Beckham thinking Lampard had headed wide.

Didn't spot that, but watching Barthez stop that one shot with his face wasn't totally without hilarity.

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm trying not to talk about it all (and failing mostly) but can I put a price on Frank Skinner and DSavid Baddiel's heads now?

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, Barthez hit in face by ball tres funny

Fantasy Football = mostly pants but i do like their clip jokes (the French commentator!)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyhoo, y'mourners!

:T -4 hours 11 minutes.

I'm a-gonna be a-roo-roo-toot-tooting for Denmarkers, needless to say.
(And'll prolly be bitterly disappointed, needless to etc :)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:54 (twenty-one years ago)

(oh! my watch must be a bit, like, behind'o'clock)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

central midfield was not where the problem lay.

Um, yes it was. How many times did the French get within 10 yards of the box because they'd ben able to pass or run through the tackle-free zone that was central midfield? Matt, you're bonkers.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

-3:38

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe Beckham's game wasn't helped by Gary Neville being too busy worrying about Zidane to give him decent service?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I think you're right. Gary Neville wasn't his usual surprisingly affective self moving forward, but my problems with Beckham were really to do with his own positioning regardless of which team had the ball.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

England were letting France come right into their parlour which shocked me frequently, as did the constant superb defending - as if King and company KNEW they could handle it (and they did).

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I think after seeing Celtic against Barcelona in the UEFA Cup, my definition of 'defending deep' has been somewhat shifted.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It was a performance VERY similar to those of Liverpool in their treble winning season, except England lost.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

exactly, it was also early 90's style Germany, as pointed out by Danny Baker this morning.

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

yes i thought that at the time, only we lost it like Italians

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Amen.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I've just put a bet on Italy to win, so anyone who fancies Denmark's better odds, go and spend a tenner on them right now as I always lose.

(i.e. it'll be a draw)

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(i'd like the draw just fine)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh bloody hell...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael Owen "nobody sees the show, until my heart says so".

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Can we talk about the Italy game now? I'm beginning to get nervous...

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm leaving in 20 minutes so I can get home in time for kick-off. Totti, Cassano, Vieri upfront please. I almost look forard to Italy games more than England games.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

shame about Scholes, i think he's doing very well on the left if only because i am noticing his ball control and passing seem to have improved for England since then (his last few performances have been good and the best i've seen of him for a while)

i owe Baran a fiver as Scholes didn't score tho (shame as he usually laps up the kind of cross that Lampard caught on to)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw this. Beckham's reaction at the first goal was funny, but his follow-up was even stranger - he started doing that trotting gloat that finishers do. I guess he was celebrating what he finally realized was Lampard's successful header. But seemed a little like he was taking credit, which I suppose he deserved, the ball was put in exactly the right spot.

I've watched the replay of Zidane's free kick about ten times now and I still can't quite figure out how it works. He tore the cover off the ball, it was a straight arc in - surely everyone knows Zidane is capable of shots like this? This might be my poverty of football knowledge showing, though; do they have to decide on one kind of attack to defend against? But then surely the other team would simply do a different kind.

Strange how ALL of England's players (besides the keeper) were right up in the top of the box. The cameras caught England's keeper shouting rather angrily at his players to MOVE UP (are all keepers brash primadonnas?); there was also a funny kind of half-mumbled mini conference amongst the Frenchies around the ball - maybe that led England to believe Zidane was going to dump it off for an indirect attack?

I thought the game was thrilling which of course it was. If it had stayed 1-0 it would have been just as thrilling though, what with the ferocity of the French attack.

After it was over, I was surprised at Beckham's tinny little voice! No doubt this has been commented on before.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

btw I wish I was as aware of the nuances of who's defending who better; it all seems like a lot to keep up with during the match, though. The camera never seems to show you what it needs to as far as how the field is spread out.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I forgot to mention, a friend of mine had a bet that Lampard would score first and France would win 2-1! 100-1 odds, he made 300 euro I think!

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

i was *that* close to having a fiver on lampard to score first, but didn't (see all my other winning "bets" ever, as opposed to those i actually put money on)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never been prouder to be Scottish.
-- Dom Passantino, June 13th, 2004

Dom, are you gonna watch the Italy game tho?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Incidentally, has anyone mentioned Jorg Steil's marvellous comic performance yesterday, when he had to run after the ball as it went over his head and bouncing towards his goal, only to throw himself in its way and then gently bring it to a standstill with the tip of his head?

He looks like a cross between Ian Walker and Billy Bob Thornton.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

re: the the first passage and the question threin - yes.

re: the second passus - dunno, dunno...

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

10 minutes to go...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh god oh god oh god.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

why have they still got their tracky tops on?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds like there are a hell of a lot of Danes in the crowd!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I am sitting a good 30 feet from the TV and I can't hear anything. Do you think there's simultaneous internet commentary anywhere?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm listening to Radio 5 , but I don't know how up to scratch it is timewise

"Zambrotta there, I tell you, if there was a mirror in this stadium, he'd be in front of it, preening"

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Are they on the interweb, Chris?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, from the BBC website, just click listen live on Radio 5.

Perrotta was born in Ashton under Lyme!

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Mark, I've got a link way upthread to the overall 5 broadcast page/schedule. I'm listening now myself and was pondering that Zambrotta comment...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

he is a bit of a dandy, Ned. Well constructed facial hair

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Internet commentary (text) and live banter is normally on the guardian website, but ignores a lot of the game in favour of banter...

― ___ (___), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

he is a bit of a dandy, Ned. Well constructed facial hair

Oh no, trust me, I already knew that about Zambrotta, I was more scratching my head at the laborious way it was said!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Gah, the BBC website isn't working and I think it's probably my computer's fault. Sigh.

(we're shit so far, aren't we?)

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorensen just made a fantastic save apparently (I can't concentrate fully as I'm doing bad work stuff)

Ned, welcome to the hjorrible world of Jonathan "twunt" Pearce

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Why don't they do something about all those balloons on the field???

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Denmark are doing quite well from what I'm hearing on five live.

but still 0-0.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

penalty shout? anyone see it?

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

denmark look useful. rommedahl especially.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

a million times z-post:

Monsieur Cocq, our arrogant Frenchman at work, was suprisingly humble today.

nice of him not to be a cocqfarmer about it

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, welcome to the hjorrible world of Jonathan "twunt" Pearce

Ah, I was wondering. Strachan is a voice of sanity in comparison.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

yup. you gotta love Michaela.

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I kissed her once.

Oh god, this is painful. I'm glad I can't hear the commentary.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it just me, or is anyone else having difficulty seeing whether the balls are going into the net, or wide? Makes for a tense few seconds every time Denmark flash the ball just past the post.

Can we start deconstructing the Italian game and suggesting improvements that CUNT Trapattoni could be making?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorensen would appear to be playing a blinder

The rate my reports are running I'll be listening to the next game here too :o(

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Italy are just trying to let the Danes run around a lot, Italy will probably scrape a goal in the 80th minute.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a really boring tournament so far...

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorensen just made a great double save yeah.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Jel, that's just what my dad said (about the 80th minute - the Italian midfield has barely moved up till now). I dunno though - Denmark look too good to fuck wit'. Sorensen did beautifully there.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think it's been any more boring than usual. i wonder if the England v France game seemed to the neutral tho esp. the second half?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

no it was exciting all the way I thought, the gravity of the occasion ensured this.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

even tho you are Irish, i need a second opinion ;)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

actually Siegbran seemed to enjoy it too.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Tomassen's booking criminal - knocked over, gets back up without looking for anything, booked for "simulation".

The second Sorensen save (from Del Piero?) just before half time was astonishing stuff.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, it'll get better, but the weather is really going to be sapping I think.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 14 June 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

The second Sorensen save (from Del Piero?)

It was from Totti actually. I would hate to support a team with Buffon in goals, he is a bit, er, erratic.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

One thing no one has said about the first Zidane goal: James did that common thing of lining up the wall to protect his left side, then as Zidane went to take it he took a step to the left, leaving the right wide open.

No chance of Beckham being dropped. I think, other than Terry probably coming in for King (who doesn't deserve to be dropped), we'll see the same starting side.

I was horrified at the closing minutes, but I'm not too discouraged: we came extremely close to beating the favourites and holders, and I thought our next two opponents looked very poor - short of either of them beating France, a win and a draw should see us through, and I think we should beat both.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I am so fucking nervous.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Can Buffon actually catch a ball?

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

am now expecting a tight draw with the Swiss and a narrow win over the Croats. joy. also very annoyed that the only prediction i've got right so far is the only one i didn't want.

don't mean to repeat the cliche BUT re the Man Utd v Bayern match - i remember how inevitable it felt to me that Utd WOULD win that game somehow, even in the last minute - not that i knew what would happen and how, just that the idea of Utd not winning just didn't seem right. likewise last night, the French LOSING just didn't feel right - not that this really has anything to do with things in reality i suppose...but i still can't help but wonder in such situations.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

What are they doing when they hold their hand up? I thought at first that meant "yeah my bad" but it seems like they all do it when something happens of some dispute.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I always took it as a 'I couldn't have grabbed/punched/whatever the other player, my hands are in the air, SEE?' gesture.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah but sometimes it'll be like eight people at once, from different sides, when a ball goes out of bounds for instance.

Haha nil nil is so lame. Why don't they just keep playing? Yeah I know it's tiring but they could just allow unlimited substitutions like in basketball and voila. It's frustrating to go through all that for mothing.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Or butterflying even.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, cunting fuck. I hate Italy, I hate Trapattoni, and I hate internet bookmakers.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

They are implying that the opposing player ought to receive a card of some sort. Or they appealing to the referee for offside or what have you.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Tracer it's usually a call for offside, or for a freekick or something.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

holding the hands up after contact is made often appears to mean "whoopsy, didn't mean for that" or "don't look at me i weren't even there" in many footballers minds

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

It's like asking to go to the toilet in primary school.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, i know there's the "hey i didn't touch anybody" hand-waving, but there's a more authoritative single hand up in the air

recipe for televised post-game analysis of all football games ever: "Well they were odds-on favorites here to win so they've got to be disappointed with a draw" vs "Given how badly they played compared to what they're capable of they've got to be thrilled with a draw"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Good second half from Totti. I would have liked Cassano and Gattuso to have started, they're both capable of frightening and hassling opposition teams into mistakes, but perhaps the heat dictated they should be saved for later in the game. Promising, Mark, promising.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

That's the best game I've seen so far. Denmark were great, especially in the first half. Sorensen and Laursen were encouragingly excellent from the Villa point of view.

― Fergal (Ferg), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

the authoritative single hand in the air is the one where the player thinks his opponet should be booked, and is telling the ref to do so. There is a rule that says if a player asks for a player to be booked then the askee should be booked, it's not enforced that often, but it's funny when it is.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

buffon > james
that gold on the italian shirts is a bit....er...tacky, no?

― zappi (joni), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i'ts italian style, zappi, must not question

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

it's probably unfair to the opposing players, as the gold will be all reflective and could dazzle the opposition players (haha their football won't, just kidding barry)

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

...I hate internet bookmakers.
-- Markelby

Yer funny chap, you actually did predict the draw, ha! :)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Denmark-Sweden for match of the first round, then? Though obviously we've still to see if Sweden are actually any good or not, plus no-one knows what Bulgaria are like.

But I liked Denmark. Solid passing with good attacking instincts, fantastic teamwork, and very tough defence. It's looking like it'll be a tournament for admirers of the defensive game.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorensen made an amazing save, but for anyone who didn't watch it, Denmark were far from a boring defensive show. Neat passing, well organised, more possession than Italy (in the first half, at least) - really impressive. And wow Rommedahl is fast! Is this the same team we beat 3-0 two years ago? Maybe England aren't so bad...

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Can we start deconstructing the Italian game and suggesting improvements that CUNT Trapattoni could be making?

Well, Vieri looks over-the-hill. Cassano should replace him. I like the way Italy looked on paper, almost 4-2-4, but it doesn't seem to work. Del Piero also a bit blah. Problem is that if they move Totti forward as a companion to Cassano they won't have a real playmaker. Gattuso is an ugly hobbit and shouldn't be allowed to wear those gold letters (very tacky indeed).

― Omar (Omar), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Sweden scores!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

And it's gorgeous Freddie Ljungberg.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Omar, is it me or does the graphic they use to show the team lineups make 4-4-2 look like 4-2-4? Denmark seemed lined up that way too!

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i trust everyone has noticed Spain are playing the Christmas Tree

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I come unstuck as a supposed football fan when I try to envisage formations. Maybe it's my generally poor spatial reasoning capacity to blame. What formation were Italy playing? It looked kind of odd on the ITV graphic.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's the same graphic for all channels. I suspect so anyway. the wingers are pushed way ahead of the midfield in it, it's odd.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Breaking news : Nicky Butt injured his knee in training and has gone for a scan.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

If this carries on we might get to put the great Joey Cole debate to the test.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

is it me or does the graphic they use to show the team lineups make 4-4-2 look like 4-2-4?

Ha! Maybe it's a plot by UEFA to make us believe we will see attacking football all the time? :)

I didn't actually see the graphic, just saw the line-up on some site. Of course you could make a case for 4-4-2 or maybe 4-3-3 with a tridente of Del Piero - Vieri - Totti. It doesn't matter really, they were crap.

It's a shame Trap thinks Zanneti is the shit, because Pirlo needs a place in this team: good defensive midfielder who also has a bit of skill.

― Omar (Omar), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Somewhat against the odds Sweden-Bulgaria has turned out to be a pretty fun game. Was expecting the Bulgarians to get the first one, though - they had something like 6-1 in shots by the time Ljungberg scores.
On to the second half!

― hedgehogofdeath, Monday, 14 June 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

And Ailsa's god on earth has scored!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

TWICE in a minute!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i'ts italian style, zappi, must not question

The inspiration for the new playing kit came from protective armour worn by Roman gladiators blended with Barrett’s signature “layered” garments. Various items from the jersey, short and shocks, reflect this inspiration.

A exhaustive explanation, right?

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

3-0, eh? Italians must be having an eppy fit.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm enjoying it - Mellberg, Ljungberg and Larsson are in my fantasy team!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got three Swedish defenders. No consolation goal, please.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

and an assist from Ljungberg for the fourth!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

And I have three Czechs playing against Latvia tomorrow (well, if they all play), so might pick up another good score there!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

That penalty seemed somewhat easily given, tho?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The commentator suggested Larsson's team spirit is why he didn't pull rank and take the penalty for his hattrick.

The real reason, as anyone who's watched Larsson over the last couple of years will tell you, is that he is rank rotten at penalties.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

5-0 !!!

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I am deeply deeply regretting the fact that I didn't take the 50-1 I could have got on Larsson being top scorer in the tournament like I was going to. Bah, boo, hiss < /carsmile>

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

DELIRIOUS WITH JOY

― hedgehogofdeath, Monday, 14 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Bulgaria - TMFD. They passed their way efficiently enough to within 10 yards of the Swedish area and then couldn't decide what the bleedin' hell to do with it. Weird Al spent too much time on his arse. Refreshingly direct stuff from the Swedes. Poor Elitza might not turn up for work tomorrow.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I'm glad for Swedes too, really am. I just hope that after the next two games they won't be regretting they didn't spread their five goals a bit more evenly over all their group games ;)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

bah, i can't find a link to it on the grauniad website, but in their humourous "clogger" page there is a roy keane parody that certain people round here could do MUCH BETTER...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually think Bulgaria could still spring something on one of the other teams, as long as they're not too demoralized. Looked like they could be pretty dangerous up front; M. Petrov seemed useful.

― OleM (OleM), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

The patronising tone of the ITV commentators "this game is surprisingly quite entertaining" etc etc (read, there aren't as many Premiership players as some of the other games) was doing my head in.

I'm also thinking I have the wrong Petrov in my fantasy team.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i had a similar thing with my svenssons

(but i got some cream off the doctor etcetc)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

The one Saint I leave out, and he goes and gets a ruddy assist. Grr.

But other than that - There's a new group of death in town.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

What was the old group of death? I'm losing track in this topsy-turvy Euro world.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The all new Euro 2004 thread! Olé!

Wow!

Do you think that the Euro election results show that people are sick to death of Labour, and Tories?

I am sorry for Bulgaria. I watched some of their game in Milltown. Outside down the suburban road the sun shone. Lovely.

I am surprised at Italy, drawing, a blank.

Where are the Dubliners going to watch England on Thu? Nealon's perhaps?

Stop press: I am told that the Vicar has taken against it.

― the finefox, Monday, 14 June 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

No, no, no: that thing I quoted at the top was NOT supposed to be the thread title, but N's reference to Rooney and 'Irish Blood, English Heart'. It surprised me.

― the finefox, Monday, 14 June 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

So..which of the next two England group games should I skip a half-day at work to see?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

And when are they?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Thursday 5pm BST and next Monday, 7.45pm BST, I think.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm...and those are Croatia, Switzerland respectively?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

No, Swiss are first.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

No, no, no: that thing I quoted at the top was NOT supposed to be the thread title, but N's reference to Rooney and 'Irish Blood, English Heart'. It surprised me.

yes i it would be better if the literal URL of the post was displayed rather than the thread title i reckon, or you could do fancy code and embed the link in a phrasing of your choice

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Champion was, well, champion - gave big props to SHL. Jim Beglin was a bit rub, but anyone who's grown up in Granadaland could tell you that. David Pleat got on my tits this afternoon. Dirty beast etc.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 14 June 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

For all that Italy are known for combining a bit of steel with a bit of silk, Totti's tackle in the last minute today was horrible - a leg-breaker. He should have been red-carded. What did Ron Atkinson call him? A little twat?

― David N (David N.), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Larsson's diving header there was a thing of great beauty, absolutely textbook, and the cross for it? fantastic

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Perhaps they're combining a bit of iron with a bit of hessian.

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 07:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I missed last night's goalfest due to watching Roger McGuinn with my dad. An excuse so bizarre, it simply has to be true.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Hooray!

I did that once. It was tremendous.

We didn't miss a footy match though.

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I missed it due to going to Sainsburys due to having no food whatsoever in my house. That was rubbish of me, wasn't it?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

But hey - it's the best Sainsbury's in the world.

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I missed it because I had already watched the Denmark-Italy game and felt bad about inflicting football on my flatmate all evening.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you talking about the Sainsburys that lives under the hill?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

No.

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm starting to wonder when saturation point will kick in and my utterly disinterested flatmate will rebel against having to watch wall-to-wall Euro2004. I suspect "no, hang on, its the Czechs vs Latvia!" might prove the breaking point.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

what are the alternatives though? neighbours? family affairs? old reruns of out of sequence fresh prince??? it's not like yr missing the simpsons or owt...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Conversation? A knees up round the piano?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Fresh Prince has a sequence???

I'm trying to decide whether to slope off early on Thursday to watch England v Switzerland at home, or slope off early on Thursday to watch England v Switzerland in a pub.

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, he keeps trying to have a video night, and I'm like "nah, there's Holland Germany tonight". I feel like Hitler.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

'A video night'?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

which word don't you understand?

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

None of them

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

That is funny, I think.

DC: nb: 'uninterested'.

Does DC have a pian'er'?

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Fresh Prince had a sequencer, certainly.

Larsson's header reminded me of K***h H*****n in '87 (the header itself) and T***y Mc******t in '78 (the velocity of the cross). Sorry, PF.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:41 (twenty-one years ago)

God strikes! Twice! Sweden looked very good. The one blemish being the Arsenal player's Arsenal-type dive to win a penalty. Larsson didn't take it 'cos he's shite at penalties.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Nicky Butt is out for the tournament, it appears. With Scott Parker the man likely to be drafted in! Joy and rapture!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Jermaine Defoe might also get the callup, but that would be silly.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

martin petrov looked good for 70 mins.

larsson's first goal is the goal of the tournament so far.

I felt utterly sorry for bulgaria ('didn't deserve that>' &c.)

I have holland & sweden in our flat sweepstakes.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Holland are probably the team I least want to see do well: Advocaat's the manager; van Hooijdonk plays for them; don't like Kluivert, Stam or Davids either.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

But can we see them at all? I just checked the TV listings and it's not on?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Must be!!!!!!!!!!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

they're both on BBc aren't they?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

BBC 1, 7.30pm - phew, for a minute I thought I might have to do something other tonight than slump in front of the TV in semi-stupor!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't frighten people with your football not on telly posts.

Germany vs Holland tonight. Dutch beer in fridge. Girlfriend away with work. Underpants the uniform of the evening.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I see.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

You and your not on telly and Who's defending who better talk.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I love Euro 2004! going to go drinking today, asap.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Loving this tournament so far more than I ever thought I would!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

stupid heavy workload rassa frassa...suppose i'd better so some eh

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I've set the video for ITV1 for Czech-Latvia - am I wrong?

It's a shame none of this is being broadcast in widescreen (well, actually, not a shame cos it's an opportunity to laugh at those with greater electronic consumable blessings than I).

ITV seem to have taken a different approach to framing the picture to the Beeb; with the BBC the 4:3 picture sits in the 16:9 frame (cos, I guess, all the linking stuff with Gary, Alan and the lads is w/screen) meaning you have to blow it up (losing resolution) to fill the screen. With ITV this isn't necessary. Perhaps Ed can tell us just what the bloody hell is going on.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Jonesy OTM - I've been stuck in aspect ratio hell.

I now know too much about G's lifestyle.

Finally - why was the first Swedish goal not offside - Ibrahomovic played the ball forward, and there was only one defender (the Bulgarian goalie) between him and the goaline, and as he was secodns from scoring, he was interfering with play in that actual phase of play. Textbook offside, and never, ever given, despite it being regularly a scenario that results in goals despite clear rule contraventions. Am I missing something? Resign Blatter etc

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Because he played the ball backwards to the scorer, Dave. Offside only comes into force when the player you're passing to is in front of you.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

And Sweden are excluded from the offside regulations.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

No - the ball was played sidewards forward (ie, not forward per se, but moving towards the goal line rather than away from it). The position of the player relative to the ball is irrelevant isn't it? It's the position of the attacker relative to the opposition players.

So - 3 tests for offside:

- Is the ball played forward by an attacker - YES. So we move to whether the player was in an offside position

- Is there a player with one defender in between the goal line and him and another at least level? NO, so we move to whether that player was involved

- Is the player in an offside positin interfering in that passage of play. YES

= Offside surely?

― I am the Referrection (daveb), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't the very first test of offside 'is the player closer to the goal-line than the ball is?'?

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The linesman's wife left him for a Bulgarian accordian salesman three years ago.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Ljungberg was behind him when the ball was played. And I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure the ball didn't go forward by any definition.

(also, how many times does an attacker have the ball right on the touchline between the flag and the goal - by your reckoning he'd invariably be offside unless he was being tackled by someone already off the pitch)

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

He plays for Arsenal, he's exempt from the rules the rest of us have to put up with

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I have to agree with Dave B here - the first time I saw it I thought it was offside, and every other time I saw it as well.

On a different topic though, how close were Peters Schmeichel and Reid to fighting on the BBC highlights show last night? Steve Bruce looked frightened in the middle. (SB: "We put a bid in for Larsson, who wouldn't, but were told he wanted to go somewhere hot." PS: "Maybe he'd come if you offered him a sunbed?")

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Reid was talking out his arse, these ex-outfield players seem to expect goalkeepers to save everything. Mind you James should be hung, drawn and quartered for his attempt to amputate Henry.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the way no-one is 100% confident they know the offside rule. Myself included.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I blame the game being on ITV.
-- James Mitchell (jame...), June 13th, 2004.

I totally agree. Whenever Engerland are on ITV in a big game they get beat, Germany(96), Romania(98), Argentina(98) just to name a few.

― @~@~, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there a girl around to ask about offside? That Kate seems to know her stuff. Perhaps she can help?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the England v Romania match from 2000 was on BBC

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Serves 'em right, the ITV coverage of England manages to be even smugger and more toe-curling than the BBC coverage, a feat you might otherwise have thought impossible to pull off

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Freddie was behind the ball at the time the pass was played therefore not in an offside position.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Germany '96 was screened simultaneously on the Beeb; Brazil '02, West Germany '70, Sweden '92, Poland '73, Argentina '86 ("you have to say that's magnificent") and probably Spain '82 all BBC, if not exclusively in all cases.

ITV is just garbage at covering sport. The 'great artists of Europe' spoof ("Shut it, you plank") made me want to kick my telly in.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

heh like hearing Larsson described as "Britain's greatest finisher" - what does that make Beckham? Spain's greatest disappointment?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Beckham isn't really a finisher, as you don't finish from dead ball situations like penalties and free kicks. Finishing is when you score from open play.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael otm, I LIKE the artists ad on BBC, why do ITV play the ignoramus card.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

ha Matt okay, i just meant it's as strange to claim Larsson for England as it is to claim Beckham for Spain, that's all

did England get a single shot on goal from open play the other day, btw? i don't remember seeing any. it doesn't square with all the talk of how well they did despite the result etc

i've noticed a trend with the commercials during and surrounding the tournament - many of them feature football being played either 1) by inappropriate people 2) in inappropriate places 3) at inappropriate periods in history. i like all of these ads. (except maybe the medieval beckham one, which sorely lacks the flair of the others) i like these universes where games break out, and all the rules of life are suspended.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

did England get a single shot on goal from open play the other day, btw? i don't remember seeing any. it doesn't square with all the talk of how well they did despite the result etc

Did France?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

If I never see Edgar Davids in an advert again I'll be a happy happy man

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

And I've listened to World In Motion four times this afternoon

there is something I have wondered about World in Motion since it's release in 1990. At the beginning, it goes "some of the crowd are on the pitch". This is so obviously not old Ken Wolstenholme (who, in any case, said "some people are on the pitch"), so who is it? Who did that spoken bit? And did New Order want to use a sample of Wolstenholme but were refused coz they didn't have his permission? I would suspect they didn't even seek it actually...there are some even odder spoken bits later on (and I'm not referring to the rap by John Barnes).

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

by my definition they did N., at least they got into a position to actually take a shot and did so, about three or four times IIRC, though all were deflected before they got to the keeper

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

did England get a single shot on goal from open play the other day, btw?

The laughing gnome stopped one w/ his face. I think it might have been Rooney's shot(?)

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha that was awesome. He reacted EXACTLY like a pro wrestler would have.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

(tracer you did the conflating england and britain thing up there, but it's ok i don't think anyone noticed).

there's also a WIM mix where barney (?) says "call the calibinari" (sp?) at the beginning, in my head at least...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

The BBC highlights show is pretty lively. Liked the bit on sunday where Ian Wright said he was 'phoning all his mates' as england were beating France before the nightmare started.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

it's definitely not Barney speaking those words at the beginning. Doesn't sound like Hooky or Keith Allen either.

I seem to recall the other spoken bits thru the record are "We...want...those" and, in a cod-Russian accent "What a beauty...scored by Gorbychev".

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a shame none of this is being broadcast in widescreen (well, actually, not a shame cos it's an opportunity to laugh at those with greater electronic consumable blessings than I).
-- Michael Jones (tourajsig...), June 15th, 2004.

If you've got digital Michael Eurosport are broadcasting the games in widescreen even though they are not showing all the games.

― @~@~, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought it was 'we want goals' tho i always wondered about that as well.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

You're prolly right - 'goals' would make more sense.

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought that first goal was offside, too. the "evidence" here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/virtualreplay/euro2004/index.shtml?06057

(can one trust the beeb's reconstructions?) seems to suggest so, too.

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah, I was rather hoping the Portuguese had banned all 16:9 equipment from their new stadia because Eusebio was sold a duff widescreen telly by the Lisbon branch of Comet and that's just NOT ON. So, Eurosport get their own feed, eh?

I'm not really smug about this - my fave breakfast cafe in Crystal Palace installed a wall-mounted plasma telly that they can't possibly afford for the event, so I imagine scrambled eggs will have some 1000% mark-up from next month. I hope they're not stretching the picture - that just makes me sad.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I now have an image in my head where all the players look like they're in a Hall of Mirrors.

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought that first goal was offside, too. the "evidence" here

Assuming it's accurate he is most definitely behind the ball when the pass is made. That makes him onside, as I said earlier. It doesn't matter where the defenders were or if the ball was played forward.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

According to SkySports news there'll be no replacement for Butt allowed, Scholes is very likely out of the next match too.

― winterland, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

So it's Hargreaves is it? Does anyone think he's any good?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

...where all the players look like they're in a Hall of Mirrors.=?or like they're painted by El Greco.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I think, to reiterate my point made elsewhere about the Scottish being blind to England's inferiority complex, there was a lot of excitement when he first came to England's attention because he like, played for a foreign team and was only English in a sneaky sense and represented a cunning way of introducing sophisticated continental experience into the side. Since then, it's been realised that he's, well, OK.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i think Hargreaves is good, tho Bayern no longer seem to be

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i do think Parker should be flown over pronto now tho

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmmmmmm, Hargreaves has never impressed me, to be fair to the lad

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The stage is set for Joe Cole.

*ducks*

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Onimo's right re offside. Here's Law 11 in all its glory:

--------------------
1. OFFSIDE POSITION

It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:

-- he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent

A player is not in an offside position if:

-- he is in his own half of the field of play
or
-- he is level with the second last opponent
or
-- he is level with the last two opponents

2. OFFENCE

A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the
opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:

-- interfering with play
or
-- interfering with an opponent
or
-- gaining an advantage by being in that position

3. NO OFFENCE

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:

-- a goal kick
or
-- a throw-in
or
-- a corner kick

4. INFRINGEMENTS/SANCTIONS

For any offside offence, the referee awards an indirect free kick to the opposing team to be taken from the place where the infringement occurred.

--------------------

― OleM (OleM), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

(Also, thread is getting biggish -- would after tonight's matches be a good time to start a new one, what with new group round and all that?)

― OleM (OleM), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

One would hope that players would be attempting to gain an advantage of some kind with their position, wherever it is, for all 90 minutes.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Does all one have to do to not be called offside is stand listelessly with one hand cocked on one's hip?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Dickon to thread!

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Shankly to thread!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Nedved is an alien, Nedved is an alien, la la la la OI, la la la la OI

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Cesi, cesi, cesi!

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Pavel Nedved is starting to resemble Hansel more and more.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

The hairstyle is hideous

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Cor, Latvia are fielding a player called LOBANOVS!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the Bulgarian substitutes last night was called Wouja Yankusov

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Their reserve keeper is Ivankov. He's a sort of Bulgarian C-Man

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I am enjoying seeing the European footballer of the year (Nedved) up against a player I saw play for Bristol Rovers a few times (Astafyevs).

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah, could only finally get some time to listen to the game now. Oh well, I'll get the second half, then.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

That was some crap keeping.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Latvia scores before the half!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

oh oily oh boily

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm missing this game but I'm not that bothered. Missed Croatia v Switzerland 'cos I watched the cricket instead - I chose wisely I think.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

HOLY FUCK how did that happen?

― de, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck! Now I have to rush home and watch it!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

that Thierry Henry advert where he's running around the house...who is the guy we see actually tackling him but is then gone to be replaced by the dog? it's very odd

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

that latvian that scored, had a trial with pompey earlier in the year.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Fantasy football "guaranteed" clean sheets cocked up all round then...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Did Clive just say "if you feel yourself coming over all interactive..." ? Eww.

― de, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Stepanovs has been stung into life by being placed upside down in Carsmile's sticker album!

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

and now we all post funny puns on football news about butt being out of euro 2004?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

BUTT SERIOUSLY (INJURED)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

BUTT GETS THE ELBOW

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

the news Liverpool fans waited all season to hear btw, Baros scored

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

and Heinz meanz goalz, 2-1 Czechs

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Nicky going to be the Butt of all these jokes?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Is this going to be the tournament of cataclysmic fuckups by Liverpool players? 2 in the England game (OK, Heskey's just left) and today Baros gives the ball away on the opposing box for the Latvian goal...

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

he made amends by equalising tho. i now expect (ok HOPE) Gerrard and Heskey can do better.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

And the anthems are kicking in...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm in love with you, want you to love me too"

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

It took Motty all of 10 seconds to squeeze in a reference to England's 5-1 victory.

Germans looking a bit shaky so far.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Cozen was right, about Bulgaria.

Mike was right, about so many things -- though I don't like KH.

Hargreaves is not very good.

Don't write fof the Germans.

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

And indeed the Germans have scored.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I hadn't written them fof. That went straight in!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

This is great. It's a really similar feeling to watching basketball, but played out over minutes instead of seconds. Why are they all so stoned in the control room for the commentary? Is it the heat?

Everyone likes saying "The Germans." Far more than saying "The Spaniards" or "The Dutch(men?)"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, how shit are the Dutch looking?

Pretty dreadful first half that, at least in terms of what I was expecting. Nice fluke goal, though. I think the Germans will chalk up another one in the second half and come out victorious.

― hedgehogofdeath, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

the worst pundit of euro 2004?

david pleat [itv] is right stoopid plank

what about the bbc?

also, i see they have wee Gordon Strachen - now seems to be over the ordeal of managing Southampton.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there a name for the offensive player a few yards out of the opposing side's penalty box who gets "fed" the ball and then tries, in turn, to feed it to someone streaking towards the goal? There will often be a defensive player just camped out right on his ass, giving him zero daylight. In basketball this guy is "the post player" or "the post-up guy;" he plays "in the post." The difference in basketball is that often this guy will just make a move straight to the basket.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"Why are they all so stoned in the control room for the commentary?"

hahahaha see being an englander i wouldn't have thought of it but you're right

― de, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

it's kind of a slurring special with schmeichel, strachan and hansen all together

― de, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Germany is just CRUSHING them.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

My German friend Sonic is over watching the game and says that the name of the substitute basically translates as Bastien Pigfucker (it's 'pig-climber' but euphemism is a beautiful thing).

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

GOAL!!!

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Van N. equalizes!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Frings aint wot they used to be!

― de, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Behind the German goal: a banner declaiming EVERTON FC

― the roonfox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuckin useless Dutch.

On a side note: Anders Frisk is quite a hunk, innee?

― de, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

he was very camp in his congratulations and thanks after the game.

Holland look so poor. It's a tragedy.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

What part of 'NEVER' in 'NEVER write off the Germans' do players/pundits/fans/journalists not understand?
We are all teh stupid.

― de, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

god schmeicel is so annoying, his sanctimonious whining after every game makes me want to break the TV.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I got no love to spare for Van N, but that goal, holy fucking shit. How many players in the world would even get a touch on the ball in that situation? I've seen the replay three times now and I still can't figure out how in the world he got that to go in.

xpost but yeah, for the major part of the game the dutch were an absolute waste. Can't believe that was the same Davids that's been running a rampage through the primera division for the better part of this year.

― hedgehogofdeath, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

It was a brilliant goal yeah, the strength and the execution.

is it me or does the BBC table look like what a cartoonist might draw to represent a steak.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Behind the German goal: a banner declaiming EVERTON FC

And a Saltire amongst the Dutch fans (the optimist who bought his tickets after the first leg of the playoffs?)

Dick Advocaat's armpits. Eeewwwwww.

The stadium looked empty as all the visible Dutch fans had jerseys the colour of plastic seats.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Most of the match the Dutch reminded me of a post-Beckham Man Utd on a very bad day. Overmars doing a Giggs, making a few nice runs up the line that amounted to nothing, Van Nistelrooy squeezed out of the game. No one else doing anything much. They definitely need to play with two strikers.

Germany impressed me in much the same way as Denmark did, but against a team with more attacking ideas I wouldn't fancy them too much. Schweinsteiger looked tasty.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought the last ten minutes of Ger-Ned (or Deu-Ned or Ger-Hol) was frantic, desperate, glorious stuff. Pork Ascender was a handful.

I'm taping the earlier game each day from 4:55 on the same cassette, just a few seconds forward each time so by the end of the group stage I'll have a video collage of pre-match anthems about which Paul Morley will write a column, or at least a row - or a sideways glance along the row, one with view obscured by a column - in Blitz magazine.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I am frightened by Mike's nicknaming frenzy expanding beyond the world of tennis.

(not really, I quite like it)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll add my voice to those hailing the Pig-mounter. He could be a real treat further on.

This group is giving me an even bigger headache now. I had the Dutch all primed to go through, but honestly, if they play like this, it's unlikely they'll beat Latvia (who were strangely admirable in their game today).

And what is it with this tournaments and last-minute action? The quality of the games seem to increase wildly in the last fifteen minutes or so.

― hedgehogofdeath, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Report on the Swiss squad ends. Gary:

- And they'll be looking to give a good account of themselves - numbered account, of course.

I can almost imagine Michael Jones saying this, on some as yet imaginary footy radio show.

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Perhaps I should scratch that last comment, after the Morley column incident.

― the junefox, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The mister has got Shitsticker in his fantasy team and spent most of the latter part of the game getting awfully excited. He seems like the kind of player Germany could be doing with.

Advocaat really has no idea what his best team is, does he? Van N wasn't at the races at all until Van H came on to help him up front.

(Lineker: "Ruud's awakening". Jeez. That was on a par with the "art, Deco" pun Des cracked after the Champions League final)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I would like to see Van Halen get an extended run.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, so the first round of group matches are over, and until today no Premiership striker had scored a goal. Baros and Van Nistelrooy have now done their bit. Better than Serie A and La Liga forwards, who have so far scored none at all.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Strange how Motty went through almost the entire list Of V.H.D.'s clubs except Celtic.

I love Hamann's scouse accent!

No-one has impressed me all that much. Even Sweden's great finishing was aided greatly by rubbish defending. I think I always expect too much.

I can't believe Hansen just said England were the best team he had seen so far, though. They were fairly poor, but it my even be....true.

It's up for grabs now!

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Poor match, up till the goal the Dutch were the worst team I've seen thus far (t'be fair, I didn't see much of Switzerland-Croatia) - It was almost like they weren't even looking at each other half the time, no interplay, teamwork, practically bog-all communication or awareness or positioning... they were just sitting up and begging to be shot. Overmars & V. Hooijdonk were the only two that seemed to be trying to play for the team or create chances for other people.

And yet - Germany weren't that great either. Certainly they stopped the Dutch from really worrying the goal that much, defensively they were great, but they were up against a side that just Could Not Do Shit All, and they only scored one, and a bit of a fluke at that. And then when the Dutch scored, they suddenly looked utterly terrified. They were alright, but they've got to up their game or they're in trouble. Schweinsteiger can run with the ball, but he'd do an awful lot better if he could pass it occasionally.

Latvia aren't out of this yet. If they can give Holland and Germany a bit of aggro... we shall see what we shall see.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"is it me or does the BBC table look like what a cartoonist might draw to represent a steak. "

This needs more responses awed by its brilliance.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the Dutch were bad but not as bad as portugal, though i haven't the group C games, just highlights.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Germany with a 1-0 lead looked a lot better than England with a 1-0 lead.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

We were playing against the best team in the world, Tracer - they were playing against a load of shit.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally C OTM about Hamann's Scouseness! Also, Vieri's is a lovely mix of Aussie and Italian. Very strange.

The Dutch need to change formation from now on because this 451/433 business patently isn't working. vd Meyde can't beat anyone and Overmars has no end product. Maybe Robben is worth a go next time round. Germany were, inevitably, much better than anyone thought. Pigfucker obviously believed he was the best kid in the playground too, which was quite amusing. I read an interview with him in World Soccer where he came across as the new Effenburg in terms of self-belief bordering on arrogance.

Looking forward to the rest of the group games now - there's a few teams with plenty to prove.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and is there a bigger donkey than Wilfried Bouma in this tournament?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't see Holland not starting with Van Hooydonk and Van Nistelrooy next time, which probably means 4-4-2.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

But it seemed like they had different approaches N. - Germany kept the ball in the middle of the field and England looked content to just "pack the box," if I've got that right.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

i particularly liked lineker's "even Cryuff (sp?) used to say in the last 10 minutes "HOOF IT UP TO THE BIG LAD"".

and also the czech's innovative 3-1-6 formation for most of the second half

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I thoroughly enjoyed the extended mention for the Gas during the Latvia game. First time they've been talked about on the Beeb in absolutely years...

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, absolutely!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i did see a rovers flag at the sweden match last night...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally C posted everything else I was going to post. Almost word for word.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Celtic and Rangers fans together in perfect harmoneee.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

delighted by Ruud's equaliser, tho perhaps not deserved

hope Latvia beat germany and the Dutch beat the Czechs, to make things all the more interesting

Tracer: personally i can't recall a time when England packed the box so 'well' (i'm still not sure how intentional and confident tactically it was!) as on Sunday night but yeh Germany's game tonight just felt like typical Germany, covering all bases fairly well but being coy enough with regards to creating real chances upfront (like England but somehow completely different)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I have Holland in the sweep with my friends.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

my Mum has both Greece and England

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

How come your mum got two teams and Ronan only got one? Sounds like a swizz.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve's mum is in cahoots with my friends. I have not spoken to anyone on the phone or in person in 48 hours

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

my Mum was the last person to pick so she thought she may as well bag both. i love my Mum.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

how odd, Greece and England were in the last two when we did it aswell!

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Ailsa and I are the Macca and Wonder of the ILE footie threads.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously, did you have my house bugged? Did I ring your phone by accident letting you hear my entire conversation with the mister after the match?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally C has been dressing up as your husband for four years now.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha, how does he shrink and lose his hair so convincingly?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not privy to his privy secrets.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't it time this thread got locked and we started a new Euro 2004 thread? Anyone? Please?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm with Ailsa. Martin S, could you do the honors?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

What's wrong with setting ILX to only display only the last 50 posts? Ah, who am I kidding - it's never worked before. You start one. if you like. I am no longer an ILE moderator so I can't do no locking.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I only want it locked so people (well, N.) can stop frightening me.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread isn't scary enough. I'm Derren Brown.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

We're all Derren Brown.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Having Derren Brown's thinning hair would support N.'s allegation that you're my husband in disguise.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I knew you would say that.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Tracer, this would be "the big lad" as in "hoof it up to the big lad" And if Lineker said that about Uncle Johannes then I can die happy.

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 07:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Big Lad. Target Man. Bob Latchford.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

...though the same role can also be played by the link-up man, head of the diamond, advanced midfielder, player in the hole, obv.

Fat Bob the Flying Pig was good though.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Anders Frisk = Jason from Big Brother.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

he really loves the ladies, you can tell

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The ball took a freaky bounce in the Dutch net. As if it was controlled by someone in the crowd.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"sucking it into the back of the net"

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

There is something of Noel Edmonds about that man...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i like how mr frisk's top had a plunging neckline...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"hey, we've played the fussball, let us now play the ladies"

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Hair of the tournament so far? Torres? Totti?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Collina. Stam. Barthez.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha! That picture guy's Latvian, no? I have several swapsies of the hunk.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Mikhal Zemlinskis, the big lunk of a centre-back. The brawn to Stepanovs' brain.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Anders Frisk shook hands with the players saying 'OK, now letsh party OK!'

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Pah, it's all just symbolic warfare.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't Anders Frisk the other guy in Wham?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

There's nothing symbolic when the Frisk gets out his whisk, laydeesh.

― For sure! (daveb), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"shay, would you like to play with my shimbolism"

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ruuuuud, why is it you cannot learn to luhhhhhve?"

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Every time they called him Mr Frisk on the commentary it made me laff coz Mr Frisk is a horse.

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

shtop shtop, this is all shimbolishing der violensh, why can't we all make a little luuuhhve, shure boysh and boysh too, you know, I am what the hipshters call....a metroshexual

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:50 (twenty-one years ago)

"Schtop, deesh satire will annoy hippies"

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

!!!!

i am hearing on the grapevine the a french player has failed a drugs/alcohol test of some description, which may void the result of the match...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

This isn't actually Anders Frisk, it's Hugh Dallas. But there's something really quite beautiful about it...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

a french player has failed a drugs/alcohol test of some description, which may void the result of the match...

Cos that worked for the Welsh, dinnit...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Stop it Steve, I've just got that e-mail.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:55 (twenty-one years ago)

There is no way in hell I am believing that.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:57 (twenty-one years ago)

but it's from an impeccable source, a friend of someone my wife works with, what could be more accurate...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

oh my god.......

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Come on Steve, punchline...

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoah, that Pigclimber is Cristiano Ronaldo's long lost brother. Two future stars of world football playing exactly the same. Ronaldo does a little bit more fannydangling, but Piggy makes it up by sheer arrogance.

― Pingu, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i think WBS might have a point here, even if someone was hopped up on goofballs, it's highly unlikely to change the result is it? have they ever done that before?

(G, i didn't get the original mail, i am passing this on as hearsay rather than humour...)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:01 (twenty-one years ago)

At the bottom of the e-mail it says, "Carlsberg don't write e-mails, but if they did they would probably be the best e-mails in the world"

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:03 (twenty-one years ago)

This France talk is utter nonsense, isn't it? Please don't toy with my emotions so...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:03 (twenty-one years ago)

is that true G or are you toying with us?

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet it's Desailly.

"Yo, why is y'all trippin? Me and my niggaz smoked a blunt be4 da game and shit. No need 2 get all ho-style on a nigga. Peace out."

― Pingu, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

marvellous, i wonder how far this will get before people notice...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Good job my sister is on the ball with spreading joke e-mails.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm angry with you g

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"Thierry told me it would give me va-va-voom"

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

What! Sorry to shatter your dreams. I thought it was funny when I read it.

The G is not the bad guy here!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Oi G, send me that email, I want to forward it to all my friends with the Carlsberg bit removed.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It's just been reported that one of the French football players has failed a drugs and alcohol test yesterday (Monday) after the match. If this is confirmed as positive, under World Football Federation rules, paragraph 6 sub section 2e, France will forfeit their 3 points and they'll be appointed to their opponents, England. Scroll down for the full transcript of this report.
>

Carlsberg don't send emails, but if they did, they'd probably be the best emails in the world.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

the WORLD FOOTBALL FEDERATION????

blimey, bit of a giveaway isn't it?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Alcohol test!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

tracer should have his own euro 2004 thread!!!!

N.: is that true about england's inferiority complex wrt hargreaves', um, 'exoticism'.

I still think it should be a booking if you fall to ground, feeling fouled, and cradle the ball, assuming a foul has been given.

I have been 'impressed' ('I suppose') by:

- sweden (attacking!);
- czech rep. ('hello, poborsky at right back? three attacking midfielders?! + two forwards & a striker?!' = crazy positive football);
- latvia's mob scene defending (... until they tired);
- poborsky's little turn immediately before he crossed (move of the tournament so far);
- apparently: the little(r) teams.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Cozen - I think it's true. It's the way I feel, anyway. I haven't done much field research on the matter, I have to say. It's just a sense.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's a bit true but I don't think I think it's as true as N thinks it is.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:20 (twenty-one years ago)

How true do you think I think it is?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

See also: hiring in foreign managers for their guile and sophistication, leading to the appointment of Christain Gross.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I was impressed by the fact that last night neither I, nor my friends, were entirely sure who actually was in Germany's back 4. Christian Worns is usually a centre half, but he spent more time in the opposition half than his own.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the tournament so far btw.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:24 (twenty-one years ago)

schweinstiga sounds like a half decent beer.

we have ascertained, in our flat, that drinking staropramen during czech rep. v. latvia resulted in a czech win. does it work for other nations? can somebody provide a list of national beers?

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I drank San Miguel for the England-France game, thinking this would be OK, but clearly I was wrong.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha - I drank ze swit swit french vine and it verked vonderz!!

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

skol?

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Last night's game went as badly as could be expected...

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Nick I think you've a v. good point about the inferiority complex, but am not sure it would have had much effect on the O. Hargreaves story.

I am surprised that the inferiority complex comes as any kind of surprise to our Scottish chums.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

This might help...no sign of Latvian ale though..

http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/acatalog/

― winterland, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

everything's a surprise to me.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe you're right about Hargreaves - it was probably more about discovering a left-sided player at all at that point in time.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe that people are actually surprised at Holland's poor game - they've been playing like that for four years.

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, bouze off the top of my head:

portugal: um, port
greece: ouzo
russia: wodka
spain: san miguel
england: proper 3% heineken
france: desparado
switzerland: um, chocolate
croatia: not a clue
denmark: carlsberg
sweden: ???
bulgaria: oh come on...
italy: peroni
germany: becks
czech republic: star
holland: grolsch
latvia: prune juice, probably...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Heineken

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Latvia: Riga Black Water

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not a fucking drunk.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I put my Latvian shirt on as soon as I got in last night. And the Czechs promptly scored.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

(the 3% heineken was only ever brewed here, for us, thus is v. english)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Carsmile Steve I am disappointed in you. And so are all the good people of Aying.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I love that Playstation fiend David James is blaming the first French goal on Zidane's free kicks not being in the video. "We were saving it for the collector's edition DVD," said an FA Spokesman.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Jerry the Nipper switched (at my suggestion) from a Chilean(?) white to a Bordeaux midway through the second half of Eng-Fra. We're to blame. The Pinefox was solidly on the exotic fringe of mainstream bottled BritBrews and I had a 750ml Chimay Big Lad followed by some Frisky Ferret or somesuch. Pam stuck to the Pepsi (and Dalziel and Pascoe, it has to be said). Food: veg lasagne. It wasn't a very cohesive performance (though, mmm, delicious).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Drinking any kind of wine during a football match is surely the thin end of the wedge?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

[hangs head in shame]

how will we get them to twin with ILX now...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

After covering the wrong side for ZZ's free kick, then giving away a penalty and failing to save it, David James has said "I want to be the goalkeeper of the tournament". This is after playing in a game in which Barthez saved a Beckham penalty and saved another shot WITH HIS NOSE!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

His mate has told him about a cheat code.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

d,u,l,l,a,r,d.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

d,u,l,l,a,r,d.

I consider myself officially SAD that I recognised this instantly as a Mortal Kombat cheat code.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

At least David James didn't try to blame it on his socks. Yes Panucci you ponce, I'm talking to you.

― Jonnie, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I started Germany vs Holland with a Dutch beer. Tasted like a plank of wood, so I sinkholed it and opened a Galician Albarino. Some left for tonight too. Although I reckon I'll get another bottle in just in case.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I went from Dutch beer to American beer during the England match. First 1776, now this.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i had a bottle of nigerian guinness last night, now i'm just confused...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

t -1:11

will spain be slain?
will greece grace bee's knees?

(and no way is 'ms robinson' my middle name)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Totti facing three match ban for spitting!!

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought we were locking this thread?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Butt out.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh baby.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"totti pani tatti!"

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

The hair police are studying videos of Totti.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I quite like the idea of one massive thread for the entire tournament.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all about size with you! (Or not, I dunno.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Lotsa yellow colour flashed already :(

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Morientes!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

And Morientes scores! Sounded like he took advantage of a defensive mistake -- yes, no?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, looks like Totti's on his way home, spat right in Poulson's face.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

ned - bad pass from one of the Greeks on the edge of his own penalty box.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Greeks = shock troops of the tournament?

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I was about to say, that sounded like a great Greek goal there! Great stuff.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Crikey - when I left it looked like Spain would cruise it, but if it stays like this... Greece might be through tonight.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Hell, if it stands as it is, Greece are almost guaranteed to be through regardless of the score between Russia and Portugal (unless Russia pulls off a major upset.)

― hedgehogofdeath, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Thing is I don't know how they handle teams ending up on the same amount of points - it's goal difference, innit? Or do they go by the result in the two team's match first?

― hedgehogofdeath, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow! Ecstatic - great result for Greece, even better one for England, maybe? Rah.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Final score, 1-1 draw. Spain/Portugal will be a very interesting match indeed.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

So Greece have it in their own hands now - and I don't see them losing to Russia. Looks like the loser between Spain and Portugal will be out in the group stages, then - the first giant to fall!

― hedgehogofdeath, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Portugal have absolutely got to seize the initiative now - Spain haven't had to cope with anyone that can really go at them yet. Cristiano Ronaldo, your time is now.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

is there any good way in america to keep up with this? i have been watching dutch tv through winamp. there must be something better.

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Ronaldo isn't in the Portugal team for tonight. Maybe they're saving him to unleash him on the Spanish?

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm guessing they're keeping him on the bench to pull out if things start getting really messy. Is Deco kicking off? (it's 2 points for me in fantasy terms is all)

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, Deco is in.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Aaron, if you're talking TV, I'm not sure. I'm sticking with BBC radio for now.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40280000/jpg/_40280491_haristeas203.jpg

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Russia is gonna win.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

when were portugal (or even spain) 'giants'?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Portugal were quite good in the '50's.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Eusebio!

http://england1966.com/images/others/eusebio.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

giants, pre-tournament favorites, whatever. you know what I meant I'm sure.

― hedgehogofdeath, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

And Portugal kicks off the scoring!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Russian goalie sent off!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

And a one-man pitch invasion!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

C'mon, Portugal, get Mr Gomes on at half-time and go to 2-3-5.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

That was never a red card. The only one who earned a sending off was the Russkie who made that idiotic pass.

― hedgehogofdeath, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Looks like idiotic passes are catching on. Gerrard and now Loskov. But still, the keeper never touched the ball with his hand. So, no red card should have been given. Like it matters, Russkies were planing a big comback, hahaha.

― Pingu, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

A v.silly twist of "fate", that red card.
The back pass was of course a major farming of cock, tho.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it not also nice how the pundits on each channel subtly dismiss the other channel's matches (e.g. ITV pundits saying Greece-Portugal was a poor match, Beeb pundits totally ignoring existence of Latvia cos they haven't got any of their matches)? Oh, Peter Schmeichel, what a difference you have made...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"3 days since England lost to France in the first round in this stadium, only 18 days until England beat France in the final in this stadium". Cockfarming asshat.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

who said that?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

woah, Ronaldo on for Figo

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoever is commenting on Russia v Portugal on ITV (Tyldesley?)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter Drury, I think.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Goal by Rui Costa

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Maniche, just now. Clutching hsi face when the bal lis kicked at his legs.

Prick.

But Portugal have scored again, so I guess it'll be forgotten.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Set up by Ronaldo.

(x post - maniche = Rivaldo)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

haha dead ball, play stopped, russian kicks it straight into a downed portuguese player not five feet from the ref, out of frustration and anger i guess, but not very hard it has to be said, and the portuguese guy still found a way to "dive" by rolling around!! AIGGH the pain!!! gimme a break

that was a neat litle "give and go" by ronaldo, i wonder that i don't see that more often. they probably do try it more often but the defending is just so good that it seldom works?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I think keeping Ronaldo as sub is a good tactic in the tournament.

The tragedy is that either Spain or Portugal are now out. I mean, fair play to Greece, but no-one wants to see them, really.

― Ally C (Ally C), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I still couldn't tell you the name of anyone in the Greek squad, I don't think. I do know their goalie looks like Craig Brewster though.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I want to see Greece.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Greece is the word.

― ___ (___), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

And that's not just because they now are probably odds on to top the group, and would thus be our quarter final opponents if we finish runners up (as seems likely).

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

And we have such a good record of scraping draws against them too...

― ___ (___), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, fair play to Greece, but no-one wants to see them, really

I imagine there are a few Greeks who are quite happy to see them. The oft-vaunted Spanish and Portuguese are only as good as their results.

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I would feel bad about them fluking a quarter-final against Spain again.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally C hates the Greeks. Always has, always will.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i think i'd rather England (assuming they get thru, and for some reason i have my nasty doubts because this tournament might need a big shock other than no Spain/Portugal in the quarters) were playing the Group C or D runners up.

i take it Greece beating Portugal > goal difference

another disappointing show by the Russians. they must get so fed up with it. Abramovich looked rich and bored/oblivious as ever in the stands.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

One thing that's pissing me off in this tourtnament is the amount of both playing for free kick and going down at the slightest touch. I don't remember it being this bad at the WC or Euro2000. Apart from that, I'm enjoying it so far. Spain looked excellent today but yet again failed to kill the game off.

Peter Dreary - sorry, Drury - is a cockfarming asshat, you are all right. Ever notice how he gives a free kick or long shot the big build up - IT'S LOSKOV! - in order that he sounds good if it goes in? Look out for it.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

so is Totti being charged for spitting (truly disgusting) and NOT the equally disgusting tackle he made? this is daft really. if video footage can be used to banish players at all then he should at least be suspended for the tackle alone if not the spitting too. but sending him home JUST for the spitting (and no punishment for the tackle) just seems 'wrong' doesn't it?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG ACCIDENTAL HINT OF GREEK BUTTOCK

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The BBC have failed to show Maniche's impression of Rivaldo.

WHAT ARE THEY SCARED OF?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

That tackle was already penalized (with yellow), so that offense can't be repealed/amended.

― Siegbran (eofor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

T -16:40

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

BE MARIS VERPAKOVSKIS!!!

BBC Virtual Replay - we paid good money for the Fightbox computers, we're going to bloody use them for something...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Mike: Fursty Ferret.

No, it wasn't Coherent - but I think it was Memorable.

Round here it's stout for every game, and everything else.

― the finefox, Wednesday, 16 June 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

The finefox knows.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Totti is a complete idiot. "We haven't had a player of that quality in a long time. I expect much from him." - says signore Trap. And Totti makes the dumbest move of the championship so far. Yes, dumber than Stevie's pass to David James.

I think he'll get seriously punished for it, especially after that last minute killah tackle. Totti - biggest dissapointment of 2004. (dumb hairstyle too)

I really want Denmark and Sweden to go to the quaters.

― Pingu, Thursday, 17 June 2004 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I am sorry, I was too harsh on Totti. He was under severe stress at the time. Those socks were so uncomfortable, he just had to take it out on somebody.

― Pingu, Thursday, 17 June 2004 06:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hang about, the Greeks lose 0-2 to the Russians, the Spanish lose 0-1 to the Portuguese; POR 6pts, win group, SPA & GRE 4pts and can't be separated on head-to-head result, so SPA go through on goal diff. Or am I missing something?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 17 June 2004 06:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, goes to goal difference if they're on equal points. Greece only have to play out for a draw to qualify.

Spain vs Portugal is going to be SO HUGE. First crucial game of the tournament.

Portugal looked better yesterday but so, so wasteful in front of goal (BRING POSTIGA ON!) Deco and Figo looked bright and Ronaldo appears to be brilliant value (55 minutes on the pitch and a goal and an assist to show for it in two games).

Did I read correctly or is Paul Scholes fit to play today?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 06:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Scholes is fit according to sky sports.

― winterland, Thursday, 17 June 2004 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

BRING POSTIGA ON!

DC, do you rate his Guardian diary?

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I think England are going to win 2-0 today.

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Postiga is doing a Guardian diary?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Have a look!

Meanwhile, Richard Williams says SEND THE ENGLAND TEAM HOME!

http://football.guardian.co.uk/euro2004/comment/story/0,14584,1240725,00.html

When he says that we are all collectively responsible for violence, I disagree.

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 07:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Richard Williams should possibly be sent home for evoking "Bulger" and "Soham" and "Hillsborough" in this article.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

What a strange article, this is particularly bemusing:

No more international football for England might mean an end to the absurd overinflation within the domestic game. Players' salaries of between £10,000 and £100,000 a week would no longer be offered by Premiership clubs. Russian oligarchs and far eastern politicians could take their money elsewhere.

Surely if english players no longer played international football they'd be worth greater salaries (less chance of being injured on international duty, more recuperation time) and why should Abramovich care if his few English Chelsea players play for their country or not?

The argument would make more sense if he was advocating withdrawing English club sides from European tournaments but that seems a little unfair as a punishment for England fans in Portugal.

x-post

― winterland, Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

and Michael dead right....what a horrible (and specious) comparison...

― winterland, Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

http://football.guardian.co.uk/euro2004/story/0,14577,1240550,00.html

Williams also says that Heskey's tackle was 'ridiculously inept'; and that it was obvious that we'd concede a second goal after we'd conceded the first. I think this cannot be right. Surely the penalty was a shock!

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't like the way that people (like RW here), who ought to know better, act shocked by footy violence, and suddenly get up in arms about it. If we're going to send the team home then we should not have sent them out to Portugal in the first place?

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

unfortunately the grauniad do not see fit to include either postiga's OR roy keane's euro 2004 diaries on their website. postiga's is better then keane's...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely the penalty was a shock!

yes, it's not like Gerrard gave a wink to Zidane as he did...whatever that was he did...

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

'But within hours the focus moved to the Algarve, where English football fans began two nights of fighting with Portuguese policemen. Cafe chairs were thrown, batons were swung, water cannon were used and arrests were made, as had always been feared.'

I thought that the rason behind the good behaviour by the english fans in portugal was that UEFA warned that if there was any rioting/fighting by the fans then eng would be kicked out of the tournament. But according to RW there has been trouble even though I've only seen reports of trouble in croydon.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I think UEFA decided that the FA had done as much as they could to stop any trouble occurring, therefore England won't get kicked out. Of course, this has nothing to do with the cockfarmers at UEFA selling tickets unchecked to hoolies via their website... ho hum.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

do we know if the people arrested were actually ticket holders? as usual i don't know who to believe, the Portugese police and authorities or the protagonists' mums ('ee's a lovely lad, 'ee wouldn't do that). and the man jailed for two years is a fireman ffs.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Williams has gone mental in recent years. His 2003 Wimbledon reportage, in particular, were full of wistful tributes to Henman as an elegiac remnant of some more decent, polite 1950s England and rages against the obscene, commercialised brashness of modern sport and culture.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:27 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.mehstg.com/backpage/back12.jpg

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Fine tackle.

― NickB (NickB), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i think uefa are right, in that the FA (or anyone else connected to football) can't really be held responsible for people who quite possibly aren't even holding tickets for any matches and are 100 miles away. if they kick off in a town where there is a match or even, god forbid, in a stadium, then there'd be sanctions...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"Peter Dreary - sorry, Drury - is a cockfarming asshat"

excuse me, peter drury is a very nice man, he lives down the road from me!

― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

if teams can't be separated by goal difference and they're playing each other on the night..... penalties...

― chris (chris), Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:04 (twenty-one years ago)

good luck England

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

no chris it's coin-tossing. which Euro coin do they use? or is there a special UEFA coin? and what's on either side?

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahahahahahaha! Totti banned for three (3) games. Arrivederci Italia. The socks are to blame, I'm tellin' ya!

― Pingu, Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:44 (twenty-one years ago)

last night's radio 5 were talking about the penalty thing "to replace the lottery of a coin toss" ha ha ah

― chris (chris), Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

what about good old fasioned 'drawing lots'. i've never seen lots being drawn so am quite keen for this.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:46 (twenty-one years ago)

But Drury is an asshat. It is written.

― And Henry! Class. Pure Class. Ladies and Gentleman, we are in the presence of gr, Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

From the UEFA website:

If teams finish level on points, then the winner of the match between the sides in question will finish highest, or should they have drawn, goal difference, followed by goals scored, qualifying record for the 2002 FIFA World Cup and UEFA EURO 2004™, a fair play ranking and finally either a penalty shoot-out or drawing of lots.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

They should toss a coin to decide whether it's a penalty shoot-out or the drawing of lots in the last resort. If it's three teams level on points, btw, it's a lickle mini-table of the results between them to decide placement.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

no rock/paper/scissors then :(

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

We beat both of Switzerland and Croatia on qualifying records. Hurrah!

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

but what about Eurovision?

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Celine Dion vs Love City Groove. nil pwa draw.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a shame Italy aren't the kind of team to benefit from adversity. They'll just end up losing six nil to Sweden while the players amble around, smoking fags and chatting to pretty girls in the crowd. God I hate Italy.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Anders Frisk should referee that game is that is the case.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought Italy were at their best in times of adversity - see v Norway and Nigeria in '94 or perhaps against the Dutch in '00

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:24 (twenty-one years ago)

play football scout, Harry Redknapp is looking at a potential signing:

Patrick Muller [Swiss centre half]
http://www.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,31-1139545,00.html

Everton, Manchester City and Portsmouth are among the teams waiting in the wings although Tottenham could also prepare an approach as new boss Jacques Santini knows Muller well from their time together at Lyon.

so during the game, look out for Muller

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Oi! Pat! How d'you fancy playing for Pompey?

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1221720.jpg

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"no thanks, I believe young boys have an interest in me, and I've always fancied them"

― chris (chris), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

oh dear, the young boys joke...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

ahhhh Grasshopper

― chris (chris), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Gross, dudes

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Gerrard to score first is 20/1 for tonight's game. Tempted anyone?

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Alan Green is slagging off David Beckham, saying he's not a world class player.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm starting to get nervous now...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

At least he's a world class ho!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Alan Green is a not a World Class commentator he is a big mouth bore

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I am starting to agree with DJ Martian on this point, after years of having a strange regard for him (Alan Green, not DJ Martian).

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

but he's not under a cow

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

apparently where England are playing today, Coimbra is Portugals's answer to Cambridge

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Cambridge a question?

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

look here, this is not an Oxbridge interview test for PPE !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I like it that DJ Martian says "look here!"

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean I've been wasting my time?

Don't answer that.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm a bit scared. T minus 80 minutes and counting.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been using the incidents in the BB household to hide my nervous expectations of Englands performance today. I think now as it's all beginning to calm down over at BB the horrible reality that we really need to win this game is starting to surface in my mind.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I've just had news from the BBC. It's official - I'm shitting bricks.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

WOOOOO! EXCITED.

Errr, I'll be listening to this one at work. And FUCK THEM if they don't like it.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)

it hasn't really hit me yet

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

all i can think is 'England can't not qualify AGAIN' - based on...no actual logic i suppose...

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

We can get through with only one win, provided France win all their games...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Even two draws.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

(according to someone on the radio, yesterday - I have not actually checked this myself.)

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going to be listening to it on the soddinmg radio while working now - dammit

― chris (chris), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

(I suppose that's obvious, actually, if all the teams other than France draw with each other and we have higher goals scored)

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't suppose it matters, if we can't beat Switzerland and Croatia we're going to be proper fucked against Spain, Portugal or Greece, aren't we?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt, do I have to drop Received Footballing Wisdom science re: cup football?

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

It would be much more appreciative of my nerves if I went to bed tonight with a win under our belts.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes yes, agreed. I just get a bit annoyed with every game being a 'must win'. Even with the France game, Andy Townsend was saying 'we can't lose', and not like that.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I half expected a loss to France anyway, but NO NO NO, NOT TO SWITZERLAND!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Beeb sez it's

4-4-2 no diamond !

NO DIAMONDS 4ever today !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt, do I have to drop Received Footballing Wisdom science re: cup football?

Anything can happen on the day!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

We can get through with only one win, provided France win all their games...

Only if England's other game is drawn. If they lose one, they are out.

― frankiemachine, Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Not only can anything happen on the day but teams who scrape through early rounds can 'hit their stride', 'peak at the right time' and (best of all, obv) 'have their name on the cup'.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I have completely missed the context of Dave B.'s bit above about official confirmation of something. Please, for the ignorant, what's up?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Holland losing the first game of the cup in 1988 is a good omen for England, apparently.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Announcement about 4-4-2 ?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah right -- I thought it was some sort of 'the entire English team have come down with dysentery but will play on anyway' thing.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Gross, dudes

Speaking of... a Swedish camera caught Zidane being sick just before the penalty. (Click the "Bildspel" link if you, erm, require a whole series of this.)

― OleM (OleM), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i hope Zidane didn't kiss the players after scoring

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Venables at half-time: 'the win's important today, not the performance'.

As against in the last game, or in the next game, or the ones after that?

Bobby Robson earlier called the Swiss the Swedes.

Oh, and how about Tyldesley: 'Rooney!... All Europe will remember the name now!'.

There is funny stuff on this thread: Cambridge question, 'look here', etc: very droll it is, I find.

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the way Bobby Robson co-commentates as though he's coaching the players: "Now - control it - look around - what's the passs? Play the simple pass - be pro-gressive..." [move breaks down]

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Red card for the red shirt.

― the junefox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

He keeps saying "Gee-gax" when it obviously should be "Geye-gax" :(

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

1. I feel sorry for Switzerland. Surely they did not deserve to have two players sent off in two games.

2. I loved Rooney's shot - the mark of a true ... STRIKER.

3. Gerrard's goal was good: passing, finish, all.

4. Desmond and Terence are now talking about whether Owen has a future with England!

― the roonfox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Beckham was brilliant today. That's all I got to say. (sorry 'bout the rhyme)

― PIngu, Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

A bigger mugging than on Sunday, England score three in a match they were barely in. Imagine relying on the long punt upfield to score when you're a man up? Even at two-nil, only managed to look on top for about 5 minutes.

If, as speculated, Croatia rest all their best players (or at least the ones on bookings) for the France game so they're available against England it could very easily go pear shaped.

Yet again, Wayne Rooney lucky to be taken off rather than sent off. Inconsistent refereeing throughout - what did he do when Hargreaves threw the ball away in conceding a free kick? I've seen players booked for that in other matches. And how come Gerrard gets away with his off the ball challenge near the end? It must have been blatant, as even Bobby Robson called it a "needless foul".

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Croatia don't have any good players to rest, England will beat them, no sweat

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

On the whole, I think England still look mediocre. I cannot see them beating Spain, Italy, Holland, Germany - which is what will be needed to win the tournament.

The result is the lead item on the ITN news. Surely this was not the case once upon a time. I wonder, about the bread & circuses dimension. And I love football.

Rooney talked - to Matt Smith!

― the roonfox, Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Rooney talked - and i was waiting for the subtitles to come up!

further proof, as if it was needed, of the power of the long ball, although vassell is hardly the embodiment of "the big lad up front".

i think owen has the first half of the croatia game to prove he can hit a cow's arse with a banjo, or DV will be starting in the (still notional) quarter final...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

DV will be starting

So there is another ILXor besides Gygax then...

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't Vicky playing for Switzerland?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah (Wicky, but pronounced Vicky)

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Croatia not much worse than England were against France in the first half, but receiving nothing but abuse from the pundits.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Bad day for Igor Tudor: first the own goal (via the assist-that's-ipmossible-to-refuse from Zidane) and then the yellow card.

Great game, however, again for Zidane. And the second half is still awaiting.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

oi, oi.
1:1
i luv zis game.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Croatia equalize!!

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

DADDY PRSO OF GLASGOW RANGERS scores for Crotia !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

2:1 Croatia!!!!

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Croatia score AGAIN!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Crazy, crazy stuff.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

2 GOALS in 4 Minutes ! Crazy !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

2:1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CROATIA A-GO-GO!

I LOVE THIS GAME!!

(x-zited x-post)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I just about to gown down to the chippy ! and now this

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Taxi pour M. Desailly...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

directions head down the M3, to Southampton's St Mary's ..Mr Sturrock is waiting to see you !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

France now equalize!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Juv' better believe it france have scored !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Two words.

Linvoy.

Primus.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Alan Hansen..said...Linvoy Primus absolutely fantastic

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Alan Hansen finds Peter Schmeichel acceptable company.

Anyway - Trezeguet pops one in and it's all-square again...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

To be frank... I wouldn't have minded France's equalizer (featuring hand ball and all) to have come much later.

And wasn't it again the hapless Igor Tudor who passed that ball back?!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

the latest southampton transfer target, Mikael Nilsson looks a viking
http://www.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,31-1139453,00.html

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Croatia's first game, as opposed to their tonight's performance, me didn't love at all, no sir.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Barthez creating teh excitement with his mad rushing forward, heheh.
The Croatians sadly failing to take advantage of the ensuing mess in the box, bah.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

when Barthez makes a big mistake he often pulls his shorts up and contorts his face

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Meanwhile in related news: Tudor's list of "accidents" ever growing. Almost managed to injure his team mate in that nasty collision.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Portsmouth's Mornar is on for Crotia

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Grrrrreat saves from the Croatian keeper now.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Mornar Missed ! a golden chance

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat a chance Mornar fukked up..................

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm beginning to really wonder what England's chances against Croatia could be :-/

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck, fuck, fuck!!!! When Dado scored, I was shouting and jumping in my living room, remembering 1998, feeling proud and calling friends long-distance. And then, yet another idiotic back-pass.

Nema veze, naprijed Hrvatska.

― Pingu, Thursday, 17 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I really don't have anything to add, I just came in to add a healthy dose of fucking cusswords directed against the fucking shitty-ass goddamn cock-sucking luck of the motherfucking french national team. I really, really, really do not like this team at ALL.

― hedgehogofdeath, Thursday, 17 June 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I do hope we play the Croatia that showed up against Switzerland rather than the one that played France tonight. Though they did appear to have many of the same players...

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 17 June 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

incidentally is it me or has this tournament seen a lot of shite tackling, resulting in fouls, or is it just a case of the ref not realising that 'its a mans game'?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 17 June 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

lots of fouls. player going over really easily nowadays. I don't mind. do I look old?

lots of bad crossing. this I mind. you've had a while with the ball; you are also professional footballers.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 17 June 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

the trans-iberian express were good to watch; though, again, for another time, I felt aggrieved the little team (russia) were beaten.

ledley king: robbed.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 17 June 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Santini has a real dilema regarding Desailly.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 17 June 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The ITN news is an abomination. No, it never used to happen.

I love Rooney and his somersaults. THANKS BYE!!!!

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 17 June 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Croatia went into their game with France expecting to lose. They've been saying all week they're after England, they're going to sooo up for it now.

Croatia 2 England 0, Rooney sent off, Beckham crying like a baby, Portugal razed to the ground.

― Mark 'Lawro' Lawrenson, Thursday, 17 June 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Santini is a very, very bad coach. He just stands there, too afraid to do anything with the team's formation or to put in another striker (poor Saha), or do anything really constructive, actually. Henry, Pires and Viera are used to playing really fast football in Arsenal, with lots of running, unlike Zidane, who likes to build the attacks with patience, so their best players tend to cancel each other out. A good coach should be able to solve that problem and win the competition.
Santini can only stand around looking like somebody thinking: "Zizou, do something brilliant, please do something brilliant.".

There will come a game in which the other team's player won't make a moronic back-pass. What will The French do then?

― Pingu, Friday, 18 June 2004 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

is it uniform that everyone hates tyldesley? I don't think he's as bad as people make out.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 June 2004 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Tyldesley's terrible but what about Motson? The time has surely come for him to hang up his sheepskin, he lags behind the action and he can no longer think on his feet (or his arse to be more precise... though speaking out of his arse has never presented him with any great difficulty).

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't listen to you.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:09 (twenty-one years ago)

but do you read him cozen?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

you either.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

:-(

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:11 (twenty-one years ago)

nor him.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:11 (twenty-one years ago)

only tyldesley.

do you like clive, julio?

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:11 (twenty-one years ago)

England played worse for most of the Switzerland game than they did against France. We beat Switzerland. Down to ten men. Big deal.

I love Wayne Rooney. I wish England could remember how to keep posession.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It was hot.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

the ball?

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

No - the ball reflected the heat, making things even worse.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure there's anything to hate or like abt clive really.

Couldn't hear much commentary yesterday bcz I watched the game on the cinema screen across the road from where I'm at.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Motty made the right call for the Lampard goal v France when Tyldesley was flailing around Ledley King. OK, highlights - might've been overdubbed later but I doubt it. There's such an urgent, hysterical tenor to Motson's voice that I would miss it terribly if it disappeared.

Clive T will always be precious for his local radio commentaries between 1978 and 1987 ("Andy King! Delirium at Goodison Park!").

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm banned from saying anything more about England so I'll just ask if Silvestre is intending to give away a penalty per game and, if so, why is the Spurs' manager playing him. Bathchair for Desailly!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Why does Santini insist on playing Wiltord instead of Pires, and not deploying Henry in exactly the same way he plays at Arsenal? I'm a bit worried about next season all of a sudden.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

WIltord's record for France is really good. The Henry thing is a bit baffling.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm a bit worried about next season all of a sudden

it's like tapping one into an open goal from 6 inches, isn't it?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 18 June 2004 07:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Which Henry thing?

Jesus, France was so poor last night, that I doubt we'll beat Switzerland. For some reason, all the flaws that appeared during WC2002, but that had since been solved, have re-emerged, ie. lack of speed and vivacity, sterile perfectionism. The football equivalent of a rusty Bentley...

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Henry not being played by France as he is played by Arsenal... or did I imagine that? Switzerland are totally ineffectual, I expect France to murder them.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Switzerland were giving England a game until they got a man sent off. The first goal was totally against the run of play.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

It's true, England were poor.

N. was funny, about the ball reflecting the heat!

Cozen was funny, about listening.

Idea of Motson overdubbing commentary to make a Good Call - Classic.

I like Motson. I admire CT up to a point, but he irks me also, with his talk like 'So, cheer on France tonight... Go on - you can do it!'. And also: 'You can sit down now'. Presumption is getting the better of him.

I saw the goals flow in Nealon's. I am glad that France did not lose.

I wish that Gallas (?) had scored with that first-half pointe-blank header.

― the junefox, Friday, 18 June 2004 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I think England were shaky for a quarter of an hour and then controlled the game quite happily, picking off a few goals on the way. I was fairly content with the performance: it was a pretty cool and professional job.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree. If Switzerland had scored, England would have pulled their socks up soon enough.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

IF Switzerland had scored, my whole point about them being ineffectual is they never looked like scoring and haven't since the tournament started

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

It's Received Footballing Wisdom (Hansonian Apocrypha) that it's hard to up the pace in a game when you've fallen into the habit of playing slowly.

Were Croatia really wily enough to play on the whiff of arrogance about the French players, their tendency to turn what feels an easy game into an exhibition match? Did Croatia lull them into a sedentary sense of security and then hit them hard and fast while they were effectively asleep?

Or did they get a bit of luck and confidence with the penalty?

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

It certainly looked like the latter to me, but I am hardly an expert in these things.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Henry seems kind of shackled when playing for France, he doesn't seem to roam around as much as he does for the Scum. Also he was taking far too many corners, which is what Pires should've been on the pitch to do.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:28 (twenty-one years ago)

tim and dadaismus otm, the swiss never really threatened. perhaps they didn't cope too well in the heat either.

a lot of the big strikers have been ineffectual in this tournament - Pauleta, Raul, Owen, Henry...

worried about those plucky Croats...

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, in France's case, Trezeguet hasn't been there to compensate either.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Never really liked Trezeguet

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I found myself wondering last night, and wonder if any of you can tell me, is Trezeguet a Breton name?

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Looks like it could be

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, very much so.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Which makes it even better, when hearing him speak French with that Argentinian accent of his.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 18 June 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I was thinking Mornar was a hateful individual aftyer the Swiss game, but that miss was absolutely vital. CBE for him at least as long as we get part the Croats.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

He has an Argentinian accent?!?! xpost

I hate Mornar too but can't remember why

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

(For our non-English readers, parting the croats* is a traditional English rite-of-passage ceremony.)

*rhymes with goats

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, he grew up there and moved to France when he was a teenager. I remember him speaking very badly French during WC98

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:04 (twenty-one years ago)

(The reason I was wondering is because when I was in Brittany last year the whole Brittany = Cornwall thing became v clear to me and Trezuguet looks like some Cornish name (Tregwidden or something)spelled differently. Apols for my cultural insularity.)

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I recognise Breton names as a result of my brief Alan Stivell obsession

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Ole!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

People in the pub where Olé!-ing every pass by the end of last night's game.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Do they actually say 'Olé' in Portugal?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, I was wondering that too

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 June 2004 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Oleão!

(kidding)

― OleM (OleM), Friday, 18 June 2004 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoo, that (Italy-Sweden) was a good game, probably the most enjoyable I've seen so far

(Or are you all down the pub?)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Friday, 18 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, Italy-Sweden was a cracker with the most outrageous late equaliser. What odds the Scandoes will play out a jolly high-scoring draw leaving Italy with the irksome task of beating the Bulgarians by a three-goal margin to progress?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 18 June 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Indeed. At half-time, I didn't expect Sweden to get back into it, but they stuck to it. The equalising goal was extraordinary. I thought at first it was just a rebound but it did seem to be intentional.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Friday, 18 June 2004 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

The Denmark-Sweden game'll be a tough one, presumably. Denmark kinda've looked the side with more variety in attacking so far.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 18 June 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Sweden v Denmark

http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85905224/statistik/int-res.htm

P97 W45 D16 L36 F178 A162

I haven't seen Denmark in this tournament.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Friday, 18 June 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

WHOA!
Whatta way to get a point!

Honestly I was so sure of a loss that I stayed home, with my parents, to watch this one. Boy do I regret it. WHAT. A. GOAL. Ibrahimovic! What are the odds he'll leave Ajax before the summer's out?
Or Isaksson. Flawless game; can't believe he's still in the national league.

Already looking forward to the Denmark game, should be terrific. A damned pity to lose Linderoth, however.

― hedgehogofdeath, Friday, 18 June 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

No one seems to be watching Denmark. They look like a hard team to beat, to me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 June 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I am supporting sweden, it appears. on this one, for once, my subconscious is right.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 18 June 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Fair enough. Sweden v. Denmark looks like the match of the tournament, so far.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 June 2004 22:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone mentioned Zidane puking before his penalty in the England game yet? That was kind of...cool.

― de, Saturday, 19 June 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

England have not impressed me. But then, as I've said already - who has? The problem England have is that their supposedly talented midfield quartet seem unable to boss and control even the most inferior of opposition for any significant period of time.

Everyone is suddenly going Rooney-mad. He's young, he's good, but one unmissable header and an own-goal do not a saviour make. But then...maybe they do!

I am not a fan of this aggressive commentary which seems to be rearing its head - Very disprespecful to Bulgaria ('good riddance'), a decent team who would have benefited more from playing Petrov further up the field and going 4-4-2 instead of 4-5-1, and whose (slim) chances the referee completely ruined - also laying into Sweden who looked like the solid, fairly impressive team they are against the Italians. These commentators, many of whom have played the game, seems to understand very little about how football games actually work. They seems very polar - ecstatic over goalscorers, simply angry a lot of the time if players aren't doing what they feel they should.

England should be worried about Croatia, now.

I am looking forward to the weekend. Czech Rep. vs Holland, Portugal vs Spain.

It's up for grabs now.

― Ally C (Ally C), Saturday, 19 June 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Why all the 'seems' above? There are other mistakes. I won't bore you with details. I'm tired. Goodnight, Lisbon.

― Ally C (Ally C), Saturday, 19 June 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Sweden-Denmark is interesting - the Danes have to score (0-0 will let in the Italians with a 1-0 over Bulgaria as it all comes down to the record between the top three; ITA scored against SWE, DEN scored against neither of the other top two) whilst 1-1 with ITA 2-0 BUL will mean qualification goes to that secondary criteria mentioned above and Italy probably qualified better for WC2002 and EC2004 (did they?). A sneakily engineered DEN 2-2 SWE puts them both in a very healthy position - Italy need a 3-0 or better.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 19 June 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I am not a fan of this aggressive commentary which seems to be rearing its head - Very disprespecful to Bulgaria ('good riddance')

I heard that and I couldn't believe the commentator (can't remember who it was) said it! It wasn't as if Bulgaria had hacked, dived, cheated or anything like that, was it? (Or did I miss something?)

It just sounded like the commentator wanting to come over "tough" (and ending up sounding like a twerp).

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

good riddance.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone mentioned Zidane puking before his penalty in the England game yet? That was kind of...cool.

And the way he took the kick straight afterwards too! ("Urrrghaurfnnnghhh". Splatter. "Umm, that's better". Whack!)

I'd read somewhere that he sometimes throws up on the pitch at the end of a game, but I hadn't noticed him doing it against England till it was shown close-up last night.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 08:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I so agree with Cookie about the nastiness to poor Bulgaria. I wish they had scored.

I think it is wrong that it should come down to qualification records, rather than things in this tourneyment itself.

― the junefox, Saturday, 19 June 2004 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't agree with cook. after the first game if the commentator had said it I would have agreed (with cook); I thought, then, they were aggrieved. this time round, this game, they were awful, far too heavily reliant on the insufficient berbatov and dogged by an insistent negativity (or, trans., 'boringness'). if commentators are allowed to be fawning then &c. I suppose, though, they are not critics. or - are they?

I think cook is also wrong about rooney. it's not just one sitting header and an 'own goal.'

should we fight now?

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Germ'ny v Latvia T -4: 13
Me worried.

Czechs v Nether's T -6:57
Me excited.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Commentators could've got more mileage out of playing up how hard Bulgaria had worked to get there, and how their disappointment was getting the better of them, etc. The last quarter of an hour wasn't pretty, it was agonizing and ugly, but that's part of these tournaments too.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think there are any bad teams in this tournament (and I thought the "good riddance" was the height of rudeness as Bulgaria were quite entertaining, not to mention hard-done-by against Sweden and some of their players, particularly Martin Petrov, looked quite useful, if misplaced). By the same token, I don't think anyone has shown up as favourites. Italy's first 45 minutes against Sweden last night were fantastic, as were Croatia in the second half against France. Germany first half v Holland, Holland second half v Germany.

No one player has really looked the biz yet either, hence a desperate British media fixated on Rooney for want of someone better.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

In what ways has Rooney fallen short of 'the biz'?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Temperament, and what Cook said.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Cook's point was that one cannot make too much of a long-term 'saviour' judgement on the basis of what he's done in two games. You were talking about the stars of the tournament so far.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

(his temparament is a double-edged sword, obv., but he's not really done anything very offensive thus far)

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a deep sense of foreboding about England v Croatia, far beyond what my limited national pride ought to allow. I dreamt last night that Crotia won two-nil, scoring a near post header from a badly defended corner with David James stranded out of position.

I didn't see the second Denmark game but I still want them to do well.

― Fergal (Ferg), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

There haven't been any stars of the tournament yet. Rooney hasn't done anything that, say, Larsson or Zidane haven't done either (scored a couple of goals, played better than the rest of their team in one game). He's been the best England player, but the competition for that title hasn't exactly been fierce.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes yes, only two goals but watch him!

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

(you'll have to forgive my untutored, raw exuberance)

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I have been watching him. I've not been that impressed.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been impressed with rooney. in some ways, his goals are the least impressive thing about him.

I have also been impressed with zlatan (esp. in the first game.)

the 'good riddance' comment, ok maybe rude but, was funny, I thought, being so used to commentators not saying stuff like that.

I thought martin petrov was an understated star in his first game.

I've heard people complain they feel hollow wrt euro 2004.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I think, and this sounds silly to me as I type it, people are making more of croatia than they are. indeed, I think, croatia are making more of themselves than they are.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

(name of figure of speech: antithesis.)

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure pinefox impersonator is the right career move for you. But maybe it is?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

don't goad me.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

('antithesis'? not 'hyperbole', rather? or just 'exaggeration'?)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Rooney is fucking good but I don't appreciate being told so every minute of the day.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

okeh, i'm a-gonna watch me some feet and balls on the telly now

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a most suspect fetish film, sir.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

That's Estonian television for ya

― Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I hear loud shouts and chants on my computer now. It is mystic.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm much more worried now, after the germ'n hymn, than i was four hours ago, honestly

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

It was pretty stirring here, actually.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

French and German anthems rule so much it hurts

― Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Fascinating match-up of mighty and minnow" (Clive Tyldesley)

Oh, the minnows are also "lambs to the slaughter".

This is the sort of commentary we like.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah... yeah... yeah...

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

tyldesley just repeated his stepanovs 'feb-mar, double-year run' insight he used in the first game.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

if that had gone in....

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I was about to say!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Minnows doing rather well.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"minnows playing decent football for the entire halftime shockah"?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Shouldn't they be having a rest?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Doing exactly that right now :)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely we all realised that any team led by an ex-Bristol Rovers player can't be bad?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 June 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, my goodness, penalty, surely?!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

This is a pretty tense game on balance! Maybe it's just me?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

And Latvia hold for a draw! Damned cool!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

that was excellent. very entertaining.

man of the match: verpakovskis, kalenko, stepanovs?

lahm is the player I wish I was.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Not just you! Very tense. Great game for a 0-0 draw.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

the Latvian flag bears a strong resemblance to a "Do Not Enter" sign

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

That's why it's posted at the Russian border, see.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

it might just be me (since I'd ended up strongly rooting for latvia by that point) but it felt mike reid ruined the game a little. not ruined, tainted. there were a few dodgy decisions prior to the stonewall penalty claim. the second penalty claim I'm not too sure on - he was running into trouble. was it just me that felt aggrieved?

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

ha
BLOODY
HA-HA!

and never in my life have i so loved watching the mug of herr müller

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

also, the czech-germ' match should be samthung to behold, surely?!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

or herr võller even :)
or any herr for that matter :)))))

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't ruin no game, sweet. That joker Mike Riley, 'e's the one who dun the blag, doll.

― Mike Runaround Reid (daveb), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

haha sorry.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I blame Mike Read.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

'I don't think there are any bad teams in this tournament'

Germany and Holland (who knows, they might improve as a team tonight) are terrible and its a shame latvia didn't win cause they should've had a couple of penalties here.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Don;t listen to what they're sayi'n about Rooney. They were saying the exact same shit about Michael Owen. And he truly is one of the best players in the whole world right now. Ha. Haha. HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

(x-post obviously, but if I read another article about Roon's brilliance, I'll spit on Poulsen)

Young players who have impressed me more than Roon:
Ibrahimovic
C. Ronaldo
Kuranyi
Pigfuckah

― Pingu, Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Another thing which came across in the commentary today: the English really detest The Germans. I feel aggrieved for the Latvians, of course.

Tyldesley said Ballack and Rooney are similar players. I don't think this is accurate at all. I will be watching Rooney closely in the Croatia game, to appreciate his full breadth of influence.

I've been impressed with rooney. in some ways, his goals are the least impressive thing about him

Question: if we are thnking in terms of 'perfect striker', should this be the case? This is the modern world, I suppose.

I think I like Torsten Frings, but I'm not sure why. He is kind of handsome.

T-13 mins to possible game of the tournament so far (translation - it will be a dull affair).

― Ally C (Ally C), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I certainly don't hate the Germans. I didn't hear the commentary, but maybe it's partly just the schadenfreude that springs from any 'big team' being on their uppers.

I find it kind surprising that so many Scots seem to hate Germany (as a footballing nation), but I guess I shouldn't.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a nice touch - the dutch strip has the flags of both teams (it did against germany too) sewn in above the heart.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

You're saying Kuranyi as a wind up aren't you?

― Dave B (daveb), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha for the above. I am not aware of the Scots hating The Germans.

Game on, now!

― Ally C (Ally C), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a mild dislike, maybe disinterest, towards germany (... 'as a footballing nation').

I have taken a strong dislike to nedved, to rival the hate I have for puyol.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

jaap stam Vs. jan koller is some sort of joke surely.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Van N. scores a second goal!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Why does Nedved look like a Def Leppard fan circa 1987 ?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I have taken a strong dislike to nedved, to rival the hate I have for puyol

Is this based on their girlie hair?

I'm a bit of a fan of the Power of Hair in a footballer, meself.

Oh, 2-0. Ruud VN.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

puyol / nedved dislike is based roughly on same characteristic shown by both players: humility and persistence. they are so good it irks me that they don't appear to have any of the touch of ego about them. it's very frustrating.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

defences on top.

nobody wants to see this.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoo 2-1 (Koller). Great match.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Great way to get it all started!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

WOW

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter Crouch could be England's Koller - both very tall

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Fantastic stuff. Holland is looking fierce

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter Crouch could be England's Koller - both very tall

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Brilliant first half - and, from the Dutch, by far the best shooting from distance in the tournament (Davids, Seedorf, Heitinga all going close). Nedved and Poborsky on fire; if Baros's first touch was better (and it can be) I'd say they were the best attacking team in the event.

Portuguese TV feed continues to annoy - one more slo-mo of a foul complete with corporate heart-ball logo wipe and we'll miss a frickin' goal, dumbasses.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

It's beginning to look more and more like the Holland I wuv.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Or NOT. Goddamn what a game.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, very harsh sending off. Looked like Nedved fell.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Martin was saying that. Hmmm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Good grief. 3-2 from 2-0 down!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Crazy!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Baros is fantastic. I can't remember him playing like this for Liverpool?

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

And that's it, the Czechs are into the quarters!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Great game! I feel sorry for Holland if they go out now.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

bloody hell.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Magnificent. 36 shots on goal. I don't want the Dutch to go out.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Best game of the tournament.

Baros is from now on my favorite player and it's so good to see Nedved back to (world-class) form.

― Pingu, Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

And I want Czech Republic to win this bitch! (or lose to Croatia in the final)

― Pingu, Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's the best game of football I've ever watched.

better than barcelona - man utd., a few years ago.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been surviving with the FiveLive feed but this is definitely the game I would have wanted to actually watch -- both matches today, actually, exciting in different ways.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Better than Spain-Yugoslavia in the last finals, David? That was a big favourite of mine.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Jezis Maria... The Czechs are gonna win this thing. Amazing stuff.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

: / I have such a bad memory and can't actually remembered what happened in that one, martin.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

O-O-Oooh.
The Czechs were great, damn. A very tough team to beat, as was only too obvious, eventually.
Whereas the Holland of the second half weren't quite what I'd hoped for. So even if the Nederlanders will totally thrash Latvia (which is not exactly a given, and which I'm not necessarily looking forward to) they still may not reach the quarters.
Blimey.
Blimey.
Fukk.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck me. That was utterly amazing. Not as exciting as Liverpool - Alaves, but then it didn't have two poor teams playing it. It was breathlessly fantastic. Nedved was amazing, though he played for the sending off. The Czechs were fantastic in general, but for the Dutch, davids and Seedorf were immense, and Van Der sar will probably never play as well and lose again. Football was the winner, Brian. I'm exhausted. Van Der veart should have scored for a just result.

All that and an awful ref who was determined to try and break the play up.

The tragedy is that the Czechs have won the group, and I hope to God they don't take it easy against the Germans - they won't want any injuries or cards. Maybe they'll rest players and the second strings will be up for impressing, but realistically, who'd be replacing Baros or Smicer or Nedved? And if you're the Czechs, who'd you rather see out of the tournament - Germany of Holland? Bah.

― Dave B (daveb), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe that no-one (including the BBC) has mentioned the MORONIC strategic decision to take off Robben! It was a totally different game after that. Would Rikjaard have taken him off?

― G., Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, fuck france and england meeting in the final.

Some of the movement, and you know, ambition, taking a chance (which is why the defending wasn't great though there was some great defending), getting everyone forward...hope tracer head watched this.

The dutch shouldn't go out but there's no reason why the czechs should turn up against germany. Davids had a titanic match, really feel sorry for him.

xpost with dave and G

The ref was a cunt but it was all perfect enough.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Spain needed to win to be sure of qualification - scored twice in injury time to win 4-3; news then came through that Norway and Slovenia had drawn 0-0, so the Yugoslavs went through too. Football was the winner. There were 21 goals in the Yugo's four games in Euro2000.

Ha, xpost! I'm not sure Nedved really played for it (I wonder what he and Davids said to each other? Can anyone lipread? - I guess it was in English...or Italian) - I got the impressed he got clobbered accidentally as the Dutch player followed through and stayed down.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not totally convinced it was moronic tactically but bosvelt?! lost for czech rep's second goal, supposedly marking nedved.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Seedorf is so skillful. What lunacy was it not to play him in the first game.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

That second czech was goal of the tournament btw. what a fucking move and finishing.

x-post: yeah hope what was said comes out in post match interviews.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

haha Robben's substitution was mentioned twice in the first 5 mins on 5 live.

― G., Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

seedorf was amazing for milan when I watched him this year too. which is fresh madness cs I've always been bored sideways by him.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

The Czechs cannot lose to Germany. Football, Brian, would be the loser.

I'm glad the game lived up to my tentative billing. It was the one I'd beeen looking forward to all week. Still, these 'best game ever' chants are a little over the top, I think. But best game of the tournament by a distance, anyhow.

Will tomorrow's match up?

― Ally C (Ally C), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe that no-one (including the BBC) has mentioned the MORONIC strategic decision to take off Robben!

FiveLive folks actually noted that during the match, though, and were pretty damn well astounded, and predicted that if the Netherlands ended up losing Advocaat would be raked over the coals.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

And if you're the Czechs, who'd you rather see out of the tournament - Germany of Holland? Bah.

Well I do wish it could be "Germany of Holland"!...
:(

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

it is the best game I have watched, I think, ally, this side of rangers 3 - celtic 3 but, as I admit, I have a terrible terrible memory so each next game could easily be the best game I've ever watched.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I assumed robben was injured. The ducth coach should be sacked if they go out in the first round.

x-post: not best game ever, there was some bad defending but easily best of the tournament.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuckin ell. Van Der Sar just like totally pissed on Thomas Sorenson in the Matrix-like superhuman goalkeeping stakes. The poor man, flailing desperately on the floor an inch away from Poborsky's deft little pass to set up the winner.

The Baros goal was fucking immense, yes.

X-post, Robben looked pretty fucking angry coming off.

― Fergal (Ferg), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

impression, Goddamnit. The withdrawal of Robben was a tactical error; kind of nice as a demonstration that trying to close down such an open game makes no difference to the Czechs. Didn't Dicky A watch their first match?

I had this as 2-2 in the prediction thread. That I wasn't cursing the loss of ten precious Stevem points with two minutes left is some indication of how caught up with it I was.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Julio, I think from his body language you could tell he wasn't. I hope I'm proved wrong, because otherwise it was a terrible decision.

― G., Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

it was a poorly executed decision.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

well that was awful!!! I just recalled the fans were booing that, and then robben turned round acknowledged the fans...hopeless.

I'm hoping a second string Czech side beats the germans.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Landsakes that was a good game. The fact that my ex is/was THE EXACT DOUBLE of Poborsky made it even more compelling

― badger Kitten (badger Kitten), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

But cozen there wasn't anyone on the bench who was any good at that role!

― G., Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Dick A tried - he needed to try and close it down somehow - he'd have been crucified if he'd left it open. Nedved was very quiet after Bosvelt came on - the cross to Koller was the first thing he'd done, and he'd had to move to the touchline to get free.

I thought Nedved waited until he felt the touch of hottinga on him then fell knowing he'd look like he was pushed. Wasn't a cynical one, but experienced player versus green defender really.

― Dave B (daveb), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

otm.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't Seedorf said to be unfit for the first game?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, here's a still of that foul:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40292000/jpg/_40292283_jonny_getty.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

haha this is where I confess my vested interest (obv I am part Dutch) Tactially though it still doesn't make sense. Nedved wasn't the lynchpin at that point, and Holland's attacks were still promising. Why then do you take off your most fruitful attacking player and replace him with a defensive midfielder whose skill in that role is dubious at best? This isn't a case of "damned of you do, damned if you don't" because the game was still in Dutch control at that point.

― G., Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

No, that's a still of how it went after Nedved fell over - I didn't see anything that should have caused him to fall over.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah right...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry Martin, that was back at cozen and Dave B.

― G., Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(zis thread iz v.v.long already, innit?)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

An attempt was made to set up another thread but for some reason not everyone wanted to join in.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

N. was insulted.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"N. was injured", was how I read cozen's post initially...

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Stay on target people. We've already had a slight diversion with England Switzerland. No tangents.

― Dave B (daveb), Saturday, 19 June 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Just think. If Mike Riley functioned, Latvia might only need to draw with Holland to go through...

It was frustrating watching them get all elated at the draw knowing they could and should have had more, much more, but still - delighted for them, they really were better than the Germans, if only in the strikers. That Lahm is a bloody good player, and Frings looked half-decent too, but other than that Germany stank. Considering the alleged gulf in class, I think Kolinko only had about three saves to make (not counting Miroslav Klose showing his true form right at the death). Latvia may even have managed more shots on target overall. The defending was resolute as all hell - the problem is their attacking plan seems to consist solely of giving it to Maz V or Maz P twenty yards out and then seeing what they come up with. Verps, Pahars and Rubins seem to be the only players with any real flair - the other three midfielders and Prohorenkovs are just workers, albeit super-hardy and tireless workers. In essence, Latvia look a solid first-division side, a few players short of being something special, but the body of players they have are so used to each other that they can function as a really solid whole. Verps doesn't seem like much of a team player, but his selfishness is actually integral to the team, cos they're relying on him to make stuff happen.

But then, there was the other game. Wowzers. Amazingly, considering how I felt about their attitude in the Germany game, I came away feeling gutted for the Dutch, and particularly Davids, Robben, Seedorf and Van Der Sar, all of whom were superb. It does feel like the Dutch deserve to be in the second round more than the maroon-and-whites because, well, they're a better team. But part of me has this beautiful image of Verpakovskis scoring an 89th minute winner that's hit so hard it bursts through the net, out of the stadium, and smacks Peter Schmeichel right in his stupid face.

It could happen. Let's just hope the Czechs don't let the Germans through...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 19 June 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

My favourite bit was when Ian Wright accused Ujfalusi of spooning Van Nistelrooy. It should have been a penalty. I often feel sorry for Van Nistelrooy, like every other footballer hates him.

Are there any UEFA rules about fielding a blatantly below strength team in a final group game?

The dutch shouldn't go out but there's no reason why the czechs should turn up against germany

There is surely a rule that insists both teams turn up.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

There are rules demanding that teams field their strongest line-up for any competitive game. Their power can be detected from watching Man U, Arsenal, etc. in the league cup.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 June 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm.. yes, I know. But it really matters to other teams in this case.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 June 2004 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It's weird how Bolton are actually the worst offenders in that field.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 19 June 2004 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Except for the fact that they did rather get to the final of the League Cup last season, obv.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 19 June 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

But it's done pretty regularly in these contests too - I mentioned the Spain-Yugoslavia game earlier; later that same day was Holland-France, a really lovely game too, and France had their reserve team out for that, as they were already through to the last round. I don't recall Holland complaining when they benefitted from it then, so don't imagine any complaints will get anywhere this time.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 June 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Dumbest moves of the championship so far:
1) Totti and everything about him (except the allegedly beautiful girlfriend)
2) Moronic back-passes
3) Heskey's foul on Makalele
4) Dick taking off Robben
5) Panucci and his socks

Joker) Rooney's greatness

― Pingu, Sunday, 20 June 2004 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

if Holland don't thrash Latvia (could Van Nistelrooy be top scorer in the tournament?) and Germany don't beat the Czechs i'll be very surprised...

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 June 2004 09:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Pingu, you missed David James bringing Terry Henry down in the box.

Does anybody else think that Van de Saar looks like our very own J0hn Darni3ll3?

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 20 June 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

'There are rules demanding that teams field their strongest line-up for any competitive game'

I think the Czechs could rest some of their preferred players no? What could UEFA do anyway?

After all the dutch got themselves into this mess by not beating a really poor german team.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 June 2004 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Holland will thrash Lavia, but as for the Germans and the Czechs, I think you should prepare to be v surprised, stevem. I saw the first half and first 2 minutes of the 2nd half of Holland v Czech republic at the pub in Brighton and arrivd back in Oxford about midnight to get the final score off Ceefax...OMG.

― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 20 June 2004 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure why he should be surprised.

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 20 June 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

One saving grace for the Dutch - the Czechs might wish to work on defence some more and use it as a training game, with the object of the exercise being 'try and play a competitive game of football and not concede'.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 20 June 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I fear the object of the exercise might actually be 'Just think of the look on Van Nistelrooy's face'.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 20 June 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm really excited, after yesterday's greatness, about Spain-Portugal. The hosts desperate to go through, the Spanish still trying to match the world-classness of La Liga, two underperforming Real 'galacticos' both needing to show that they are as good as their reps and records. This could be a great one - which I know probably means it'll be a disappointment, but who knows?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 June 2004 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

There's always hope! I've started up the Radio Five stream but I guess there's some other sports thing they're broadcasting now which can't be webcasted, so I'm waiting for the loop to go away.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 June 2004 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm excited about Spain-Portugal too. They both have such flamboyant individual players who so far haven't shown what they can do.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds like there have been a few exciting challenges already -- true, not?

Elsewhere, Russia 1-0 over Greece.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Russia 2-0 over Greece now!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Fernando Torres have a spectacular mullet the other day?

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Also Anders Frisk is refereeing. A god amongst men.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Some great tackling from both teams - including by Portugal keeper!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah the successful tackles and the dribbling in this game is just killing everything else I've seen in the other games

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Also Anders Frisk is refereeing. A god amongst men.

Blimey. Yes. He is a bit fierce.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Now Russia 2, Greece 1.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The commentators keep saying Portugal need to win, but if Greece lose, don't Portugal just need to draw? They'd both be on four points and Portugal would have a better goal difference.

Or am I missing something obvious?

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

This is all very complicated.

BBC Euro 2004 table calculator is your friend

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Snaap - before goal difference comes points record between the level countries.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

(ie. Portugal lost to Greece therefore they would go out)

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, right, thanks.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"He has to stretch because he hasn't got any more legs to get there" (Mark Bright on second Russian goal).

Fabulous.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Barry Davies had the temerity to criticise FGrisky's facial hair. I need simply ask - how much action will you get over the tournament Bazza? Hah. Frisky is a barker. He tosses a Swedish coin too.

Anyway. The game - Portugal again lots of nice possesion, lots of strong tackling and bite but still suffering froma problem that's dogged them since Eusebio - not having a top striker. Pauleta looks all alone, and when corners come in, there's 4 Portuguese agaisnt 7 or 8 Spainiards - are they hoping the Spanish will assume that someonme will pick anyone up, leaving someone free etc? I dunno - either way, Spain look far more threatening going forward.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoo, goal (Gomes)!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha. Lawrenson went on and on and ON about the pointlessness of swapping one striker for another without changing tactics, so when the goal went in said (tongue in cheek), "What a substitution!"

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Yet another tense goddamn game, this.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Portugal beats Spain 1-0 and win group A!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, that was exciting. Not great football, but so close.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that early 80's nutty right-wingahs Heróis Do Mar said it best:

Dos fracos, não reza a história
Cantemos alto, nossa vitória

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

err, sorry, got excited..."early 80's nutty right-wingah synth pop band", was what I wanted to say.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

We might have to play Portugal in the quarters now (obviously only one possibility, but I think it's the likeliest). Not too terrifying, but far from an easy one.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Greece through on goal difference.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

krikey. Spain go out again to the hosts of a competition. Even so, only having one man haring up in the 91st minute is a bit daft. Portgual were a bit rubbish really, and haven't impressed - that said, they could come alive in the knockout stage, so we'll see. Couto looked very poor again, and I can see a decent team doing for them. Whether the team finishing 2nd in Group B are that team is another matter.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 20 June 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Why wasn't morientes on from the beginning? Why is Raul allowed to play when he's in such appalling form? what about valeron and extebarria?

Also if you start from the 0-0 type mentality, and if it goes against you its quite tough to get going.

Scolari has done ok really by junking all that golden generation bollocks. A tense game and it showed.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 June 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Figo is starting to look like Alan Shearer or Lothar Matthaus circa Euro2000 - undroppable talisman who just seems to be getting in the way and generally looks a bit of a shadow of his former self. Its kind of sad, even if he did play well against Russia.

Has no one mentioned Petr Cech's save on Saturday? Fucking hell! Dr C better be happy. Poor Cudicini, though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 21 June 2004 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought it was a great game, lots of end to end and occasional great footwork from both teams. Ronaldo looked good, Costinha did well at times but let me down with that bloody header. I feel extremely sorry for the Spaniards but it seems they just won't learn - i hope it's not the Christmas Tree's fault (Raul suffered from no partner up front?)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 21 June 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

was SHearer that bad at 2000? for all the talk of England having such a poor team at that tournament, there will be 6 people from that squad playing tonight, and the situation is exactly the same...

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 21 June 2004 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Pauletta is out of the quarter final after picking up another yellow last night. Not that he's made any impact on the tournament, but still.

Why can't Spain progress in major tournaments?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 21 June 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i think people over-estimating them too often is the real problem. is this Spain team really that good? maybe the group matches at the last World Cup flattered them too, but they looked more impressive then.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 21 June 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

arrrrgggghh nervous as hell now. i am going to the pub to watch this but feeling that England are going to lose. but how could they mess it up once again?? they can't can they? red card this time not penalty maybe. oh jeebus this sux0rs...

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

the Czech's were great.

England will win, but Nuno is waiting, oh no!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

julio's right about spain. the coach should have overcome his fear to keep raul out and let valeron and morientes play...
anyway, historically spain isn't up to its supposed level when it comes to international tournaments...

― joan vich (joan vich), Monday, 21 June 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

The anthems are playing...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 June 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

...and Croatia have already scored! Ack.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 June 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops. Quite why Ashley Cole was taking a shot at David James is unclear.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 21 June 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

On a flubbed strike: "At least he was there to miss it." haha HOW ENGLISH IS THAT

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 21 June 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

A shot of Posh Spice in the stands, drawing the dry comment, "MANY wives and relations of the players are here tonight"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

phew!

Scholes!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Raaaah!

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Scholes breaks his duck. 1-all

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounded great on the radio. To quote the lead commentator, "I don't care if it came in off his backside!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, apparently Colina might come and referee in the premiership next season!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

ROONEY!!!!!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

TWO ONE!

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Roooooney

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

(Ned & Adam - I am feelin' yr pain, one of my has housemates has TAKEN THE TELLY, thank god for streamage)

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Monday, 21 June 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

where can i find this match streaming online? cheers

― tk, Monday, 21 June 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYNEEEEE RROOOOOOOOOOOOOONEEEEEEEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― ..., Monday, 21 June 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

wow what a game, lampard makes it 4-2

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Good god, I step away for an hour to do more work and things go crazy!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

And it's over, 4-2, England through! France also won, there ya go.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Hurrah hurrah! 4-2!!

We play Portugal next

― C J (C J), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks to Thierry for finally waking up and putting England out in the next round after all.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

woooooooohhh!

― toby (tsg20), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

what date and time do we (england) play next then?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

England's defence looks one of the most suspect I've seen all tournament, dreadful tonight. Depending which Portugal turn up, England could ship goals like crazy on Thursday.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I've just about started breathing again. Thing is, I still don't think we were all that good.

On a flubbed strike: "At least he was there to miss it." haha HOW ENGLISH IS THAT

ha ha, I spat out my dinner in disgust at that moment. Joe Royle was a co-commentating disgrace, and Motson's getting progressively worse too.

Our defence wasn't *that* bad, especially Campbell, Cole has to learn to get back though

― chris (chris), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

a swiss 18 year old kid, 4 months younger than rooney scored for the swiss against france tonight.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Joe Royle pissed me off throughout. Motson confused Vassell and Campbell at one point!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 21 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i actually prefer hearing the games on the radio, i think. i'm sure this means i'm not a proper football fan (as if that wasn't obvious already).

― toby (tsg20), Monday, 21 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Toby, if there wasn't such a delay I'd have the radio on and the sound off on the telly. It was bad enough though hearing Dave downstairs cheering as the ball on his telly hit the net and ours was just leaving Rooney's boot

― chris (chris), Monday, 21 June 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

New thread now?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 21 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

is this a digital tv thing?!

it reminds me of listening to the tennis on the internet a few weeks ago and seeing the live scoreboard from the paris open website updating about 30secs ahead of the commentary.

― toby (tsg20), Monday, 21 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

change yr settings nick: no need for new threads.

I keep chatting to my brother during the games so I don't get to hear much commentary.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 21 June 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

who spotted mark butcher, below posh spice, in the stands?

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 21 June 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

NO NEW THREAD! The entire tournament must be recorded on one massive thread of joy and despair. Also I want to have started the biggest thread ever.

England's defence isn't that bad, Chris is right. They are poor at defending set pieces but Campbell and Neville are solid and Terry is a good player. All credit to Croatia for refusing to lie down and die though.

Best England performance of the tournament - responded to going a goal down with a slow, patient game with PASSES THAT ACTUALLY CONNECTED rather than the usual frantic mess/hoofing the ball upfield and hoping for the best.

It occurs to me how different this team is to the one that played in the World Cup. In 2002, by common consensus the best players were Campbell, Ferdinand and Butt. We'd scored a paltry three goals in the group stages and conceded just one. England were embarassingly over-reliant on Beckham and Owen. Now we appear to be a free scoring attacking team, and those two players aren't even on form. What a difference a couple of years and a couple of Scousers makes.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris OTM. Cole must get back more. I'm still not convinced by Terry, and the fact that all four goals have been conceded on set pieces tells it own story - teams will struggle to get behind us, but whip a cross in and we struggle.

A consolation is that Portugal don't do set-pieces well - against Spain, they only had 4 men up for corners - we should be OK on those.

I thought we played nice sensible football and didn't panic. We've never scored more than 4 goals away from home in a tournament before. We've never scored more than 3 goals twice in a tournament before, let alone back-to-back. Commentators saying 'how can Rooney improve - he's got it all'. He can show he can do a job against a team set up to confound him (which I can see Portugal doing). Interesting test for Cole against Ronaldo - he got the better of Cole in the FA Cup semi so lets see if he can learn from that.

My tournament biorhythm is on the up. Still rather have played Greece, but there you go.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Expect Portgal to be going down alot on the edge of our box and to man mark Rooney (hopefully leaving room for Owen)

Croatia looked like they were going to score everytime they came forward in the second half.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably none of you lot got to see the France game, but it was truly despairing. The poorest France has played so far, although things did improve once Santini brought in Saha.
I seriously doubt we can make it past Greece and if we do, we'll probably get hammered by the Czechs.
Oh well..

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:00 (twenty-one years ago)

England not yet conceded a goal thru open play - so defence can't be that bad really. Sol Campbell has been great but not sure about Terry. Rooney astonishes me. Delighted for Scholes. England at least have some chance against the hosts. I want Sweden in the semis (although that would probably backfire as they are bogey team). As long as Owen continues to set things up so nicely for Rooney I guess he can stay in the team...

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Croatia looked like they were going to score everytime they came forward in the second half.

the TWO times this happened you mean (well it didn't seem like that many...)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I return to this thread in eager anticipation of Italy screwing up spectacularly tonight. Between Trappatoni and BB Marco it's a really shitty time to be repping the boot at the moment.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Sweden, Holland or, still conceivably, Germany in the semis. I fancy our chances against Portugal.

There's no way Italy can meet England in the semis, is there? I'd worry about that. Although its entertaining to see that the Azzuri haven't even been knocked out yet and the paranoid Italian national histrionics are already beginning. "Oh no! Sweden and Denmark will deliberately draw to knock us out! Oh no!"

I *really* hope they go out. Sorry Dom and Mark, but the level of hysterical national soul-searching post-knockout is just so entertaining with Italy.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:37 (twenty-one years ago)

No country takes losing as badly as Italy does, admittedly. This is the first tournament since... 96, I'd say, when our bad performances are entirely our fault. Hopefully Trap will realise that it's not 1995 anymore and stop playing Del Piero, but who knows.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll admit, I don't buy this Scandanavian kinship conspiracy. Sweden/Denmark's one of the biggest rivalries in international football, the idea that either will pass up a chance to knock the other out is retarded.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

yes and that nasty man Totti deserves to see his team fail. but at least he gets to make the sex with attractive chica afterwards. with Anders watching in the corner obviously.

(x-post)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked the guy who fouled Beckham, picked him up, shook his hand, then promptly fouled him again.

Also Gerrard's first half dive was truly pathetic. The commentators, in true partisan style, suggested 'the ball ran away from him'.

Great England performance, full of flair, close knit passing, goals from midfield and, well, Wayne Rooney. No yellow cards picked up, no obvious injury concerns. Things look healthy.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

(it's GOING to be germany in the semi, face it, there's nothing else that can happen...)

(i am more than happy to be proved wrong by plucky czechs/dutch though)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i feel its a little unfair to castigate cole defensively considering the huge responsibilities he took on offensively, he was decisive and inspiring and i was impressed with him throughout. he is a good defender when necessary but there should be more midfield strategy behind him when he does bomb forward. sven is masking random cramming of midfielders with the pretence of fluid flexibility rather than the practice sometimes. cole shdve kept the beard tho, he looks v lounge jazz now...

― prima fassy (mwah), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Our record against hosts:

EC80 Italy 1-0 England (late Tardelli goal, I was so upset I didn't want to go to school the next day.)
WC82 Spain 0-0 England (Keegan, Brooking double substitution; Jack Charlton - "If we get one with enough time to get another we'll be all right.")
WC90 Italy 2-1 England (3rd place playoff - I'm not sure if this was even live on the telly.)
EC92 Sweden 2-1 England (Goodbye, Gary; "Broliiin!")

It's not great, is it? I see extra time, pens...

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I heart the way the Italians are focussing in on the reason why they will go out (the Scando fix) rather than the real cause - failure to win football matches when on top.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:44 (twenty-one years ago)

the 2nd half was a bit of a bollocks defensively cos england always seem to get a bit too giddy when the going gets good. 1st half was great. beckham has mastered the art of appearing purposeful and visionary when hoofing it forward

― prima fassy (mwah), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:46 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a great quote in this mornings' papers. An Italian journalist asked what the Swedish word for 'fix' was. The Swdiesh said they didn't have one. The Italian journalist said, "but we've got about twenty."

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:48 (twenty-one years ago)

by the sound of things, the attitude of the Italian press is quite galling...maybe only marginally worse than English tho

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

the TWO times this happened you mean (well it didn't seem like that many...)

I get panicky when we are defending a lead, but they seemed to have ball in dangerous paces in our box alot in the second half.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Was there a recurrence of Terry's injury? King may have to come on against Portugal. Sol should come up for corners a bit more.

We could win against Portugal, but Rooney and Scholes could miss that semi-final with another booking.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Our record against hosts:

Enough specious historical omen talk already!

It wasn't hot.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"We could win against Portugal, but Rooney and Scholes could miss that semi-final with another booking."

No. Clean slate for quarter finals. All yellows are tucked firmly back in referee's pockets. If those players get sent off, they will miss the semi-finals, but then so will the team, probably.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:55 (twenty-one years ago)

ooh, i was wondering about this, i thought they might start again, seems a little unfair to having hanging over you all tournament...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

If I was English I'd be feeling pretty optimistic right now, Portugal are exactly the sort of fanny danglers English teams routinely steamroller over.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Paul Scholes' goal and subsequent performance brought me the most joy - one goal and you could see his confidence was back = two great long-range shots on target he might not necessarily have attempted otherwise. I think he could get a couple more now. But why does Sven not tell him to avoid tackling at all costs?

Aside from that penalty against France, Beckham hasn't done a great deal wrong in this tournament. Not that he's done anything inspirational either, however.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to say - let's not forget Scholes. I love the little Ginger Pele so much.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Gerrard was pretty poor last night however

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

He gave the ball away a couple of times, but didn't do too much wrong. He was very conscious about filling in when Scholes / Lampard got forward. You could see him thinking, "where the fuck is the back point of the diamond?"

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

All he could see was the backside of the Roon.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

He hasn't lived up to the hype but then who could live up to that kind of hype? Apart from Rooney.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I forgot to work in the crazy diamond.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Shine on

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:20 (twenty-one years ago)

With hope in your heart

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Sign on you crazy diamond.

Thanks for the loan of the joke, biscuit boys.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Good job Lynam isn't bald or it'll be Shine On You Crazy Desmond

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Hotgoddamn, once again during this tournament I'll be doing my live radio show quite at the same time when football's on the telly. And I'll miss most of the Sweden v Denmark match that way.
My only hope really are the couple of 20-minute-plus tracks that I'll be having at the ready tonight ;(

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

just stick Mogwai's 'My father My King', The Orb's 'Blue Room' and Goldie's 'Mother' on and cheer on the Scandies

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Which Scandies tho?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, I for one 'll like the one which a-giveth me mo' bettah blooze! </masochist>

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i think i like the Swedes more, except when they play (and never lose to) England

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

... the very reason I like the Swedes so much! Well that and Henrik Larsson. But seriously I like this Swedish team a lot, I like the Danes too but I think it'd be a pity if Italy went out.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 11:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure pinefox impersonator is the right career move for you. But maybe it is?

-- N. (nickdastoo...), June 19th, 2004.

That was so funny.

N. has been very funny, like when he said 'I blame Mike Read'. He has not lost it - N., I mean. He is up to the biz.

I like Boyle's Mike Reid skit too. That was really good. There is so much good stuff on a thread, sometimes.

I like (do I?) the way that Cozen is siding with obscure players and teams, Latvian subs, etc.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Reading the thread, I am only up to halfay through Czechs-Dutch.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I *really* hope they go out. Sorry Dom and Mark, but the level of hysterical national soul-searching post-knockout is just so entertaining with Italy.

Yeah, I mean Italy have been pretty negative but even if they'd been great the schadenfreude thing with them getting eaten alive when they get home is too funny to pass up. The idea that Denmark and Sweden need to be politely reminded not to fix a two-all with each other is funny too. I hope it is two-all just because they're both good.

― Fergal (Ferg), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Italy are good too.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel really sorry for Michael Owen. He looked slightly crestfallen as he was asked to slaver over how much better Rooney is than him.

― Fergal (Ferg), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Without Owen, Rooney would not have scored half the goals he has in this tournament.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, I panicked thinking there was a game on at 5pm I was missing

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel sorry for Sweden and Denmark. It it is 2-2 then no one will believe them it's not a stich up.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck you all, really. Italy's 1st half against Sweden was the performance of the tournament up to the Czech/Holland game. If Italy stay in there could be some uber-classic matches to come.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Agree 100%

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

with or without them i think they'll be uber-classic action, but in truth i would quite like them to go through as Denmark just aren't as interesting frankly.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

60 minutes of football a good team does not make.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

That is such a non-argument, Dave, and you know it.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

best article yet
http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,14546,-4232682,00.html

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

fwiw i think England would probably have struggled more against Denmark and Sweden (weren't Sweden the top seed for this group based on qualifying?) and could well be in the same boat as the Italians are finding themselves in now. not to demean England's efforts of course but Denmark and Sweden are clearly superior to Croatia and Switzerland. but hey it was high time England got a kindly draw!

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Gah, is the Denmark game not even on TV? How come they're not showing a match each for these last group games, are they scared of a violent uprising amongst disgruntled soap-watchers?

― Fergal (Ferg), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

It's on ITV2.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3811577.stm

― Rambo, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

materazzi's face on giving away the penalty.

del piero?

hristov is rubbish.

game on.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

bulgaria are actually playing some nice quick sweeping football. I apologise, to them, for being rude, to them, earlier.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

the bulgarian fans look the happiest I've seen.

I'm going to be rude about italy, soon.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

oh dear, looks like it could be bye bye Trap...45 mins left to turn it around...

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Den-Swe is a bit of a ding-dong - managed to miss the goal through my mindless channel-hopping but the Swedes have been denied by keeper heroics a few times. Nice to see the now almost routine hugging of forwards by defenders finally punished in Bul-Ita.

And it's pouring down! Lovely.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

well that's one back...

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

ha, and in the other game too!

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Denmark 2-1! this is so exciting...Italy need only a goal now, but if Sweden equalise they need at least two more

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Trapattoni is going berzerk.......

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't that what the Danes and Swedes do?

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

omg!

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Italy surely out without losing a game - has this happened before?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

laughing my arse off /// goal flash Denmark 2 Sweden 2

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

No, if Sweden equalise Italy are finished. AND THEY HAVE!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Petkov just missed a remarkable chance to REALLY put the boot in

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Cassano scores but it;s not enough!!!!!!!!!

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Italy have scored, but FULL TIME DEN 2 SWE 2

= ITALY OUT !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

first team ever to go out of the European Championships without losing a game, ITV confirm

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i actually feel sorry for them...but i guess they only have themselves to blame

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahahaaaa classic

― prima fassy (mwah), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

(i wd have been all shrugs if cassano hadnt scored)

― prima fassy (mwah), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

of course Germany could be the second team to go out without losing...and we all pray they will...

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

The Danes were really going for a third towards the end but once the equaliser went in, it was "After you, Claude."*

(* can anyone tell me where this expression comes from?)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

wow.

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"No, after you, Cecil". It comes from I.T.M.A.

I fear the arrival of Barry to this thread.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel sorry for them too. The Bulgarians that is.

Should hopefully help Englands progress, assuming they beat Portugal.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus. Pathetic stuff from the Scandies.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus. Pathetic stuff from the Scandies.

Really? Did you see the game?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

nah man I was channel hopping. It was a good game and denmark played better but Italy deserve to go out.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yep, that Danish GK blunder at the end seemed prety dodgy and I felt the game at an odd awkward pace to it, but I guess I may simply be projecting stuff here...

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I felt for them really - it were never a penalty, and cassano's face turning from joy to utter dejection almost had me in tears. Almost.

A plus - how nice to see tournament football played in rain.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

of course Germany could be the second team to go out without losing...and we all pray they will...

Hurrah for people who agree with me about the joys of wanting to see your rivals beaten...

The ITV2 commentary team were fairly pushing the 2-2 point across all the way through the match and as soon as Sweden equalised the camera team were focussing straight in on all the 2-2 flags, banners, facepaint etc.

The commentator also had some mad conspiracy theory about the second half of Sweden v Denmark kicking off late on purpose (presumably so they could see if the 2-2 was necessary, but I was too busy laughing at the preposterousness of it all)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm gutted.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Pannini Stickers to be withdrawn worldwide again in 5 . . . 4. . . . 3. . .

― Gribowitz (Lynskey), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

dave b otm. I was almost in tears when cassano's scored and looked so so happy. it was almost beautiful, in a way, haha yeh yeh gay court, but was a bit soured by the exactness and just-so of the other result.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

... I felt sorry for them too, which is a turnaround, obviously, since I had, a week ago, been feeling sorry for bulgaria and, only hours ago, been not feeling sorry for italy.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I've not read the rest of tonight's posts, as the slightest hint of smugness from any of you would be enough to make me sob like a little girl.

But.

Three reasons why I'm not as devastated as I might be:

1. We were beaten on goals scored and goal difference - no arcane and unjust tournament rules came into it.

2. I don't have to read the Italian press tomorrow.

3. Maybe, just maybe, they'll get rid of that FUCKING CUNT Trapattoni and we can pick up the pieces with a new coach with a brain.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

italy play football the way I like it played. : /

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I nearly cried, fuck knows how Dom and Mark must be feeling.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

italy are the new 'grand don't come for free', obv.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Cassano looked like he'd just been told his kid had been knocked down and killed. I think I know the feeling.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I love Cassano.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Simply put: Trappatoni has been Italy manager for four years, took over of manager of the best Italy team for ten (maybe twenty) years, and still doesn't know his best XI. He will be lynched by the Italian press tomorrow, and deservedly so. Zambrotta, Buffon, and Cassano are the only three Italian players to have done anything of worth in the past fortnight. Did you know Perotta was born near Manchester? Someone should mention that in commentary.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not going to join in the sobfest but Mark's first point is key; forget the vicissitudes of the magic 2-2 - three teams drew with each other and Italy beat the fourth team by the narrowest margin. This is how Scotland went out of the World Cup in '74.

I feel that the head-to-head record when three teams tie should go to points and no further; go straight to group-wide goal diff after that. Denmark could've beaten Bulgaria 7-0, drawn 0-0 tonight and gone out, which is absurd.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I phoned Sepp Blatter and he refused to agree it was ridiculous.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to say - this is how we felt in '74.

I imagine. I phoned Pele and he agreed Wayne had the edge in most departments.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I do fucking love Sweden.

― Tag (Tag), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Denmark more. I told you all they were good!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

sweden are better.

I would phone henrik larsson and he would agree but I still can't find my phone.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Italy/Bulgaria = England/Croatia but with worse finishing. The side that needed to win dominated, but looked shaky whenever the inferior opposition went forward.

Also:

http://www.calcio2002.com/mag/special/0307_pagelle/img/buffon.jpg = http://seattlemusicweb.com/blc.gif

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Even the most hardened Italy-hater would have to feel sorry for them based on that.

I'm looking forward to Denmark playing the Czech Republic though.

― Fergal (Ferg), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, i wouldn't rule the Danes out for making the semi either - you know how these things go. i fancy Sweden against LATVIA too...

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Even I felt sorry for Italy. And Lord knows I hate their football.
A friendly advice - they need a new coach, pronto.

― Pingu, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 05:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah, stop whining for Italy, and HURRAH for Sweden!

― Hanna (Hanna), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 06:24 (twenty-one years ago)

But then you open up for other kinds of possible match fixing etc (of the Argentina-Peru 6-0 kind). Also, I'm pretty sure -- tho I haven't proven it -- that this would never actually separate between three teams (can anyone provide a counterexample?).

Even the most hardened Italy-hater would have to feel sorry for them based on that.

That sudden elation-to-desperation swing reminded me of when Norway beat Brazil 2-1 in '98 with a rather late penalty -- at the same time, Morocco beat Scotland 3-0 and thought they were through. The way they looked when they got the news -- yeah, of course I felt sorry for them too, although I wouldn't have the results any other way...

― OleM (OleM), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I AM so glad Italy has been deservedely kicked out...
you have no idea (or maybe you do) of how much whining and complaining and meanness has been going on here these days.
and the first thing after the match last night our sport journalists could say was: "dubious result between sweden and danmark"
oh please, it could be funny if you weren't Italian yourself, but it is REALLY depressing when you are, instead

― misshajim (strand), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 07:05 (twenty-one years ago)

But then you open up for other kinds of possible match fixing etc (of the Argentina-Peru 6-0 kind).

Well, that's hardly mutually advantageous though, is it? And I'm merely suggesting moving group-wide goal difference up the pecking order of criteria so that the margin of victory in your 'easy' game isn't rendered meaningless in a case like this. And it wasn't a proposal to counteract fixing, which will happen or won't happen regardless of ranking systems, because I don't believe that happened here.

Also, I'm pretty sure -- tho I haven't proven it -- that this would never actually separate between three teams (can anyone provide a counterexample?).

I'm not sure what you mean here.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 07:23 (twenty-one years ago)

why were the italians complaining about socks? my mind is boggling.

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure what you mean here

If three teams have the same number of total group points, I believe they would necessarily have the same number of points in their head-to-head matches as well. Thus, your proposed criteria would only be able to separate teams if two teams get the same number of total points.

(Was that any clearer?)

― OleM (OleM), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Are we heading towards a WC2002 scenario, with all the usual suspects getting eliminated early?

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Er, no - that's not what I meant. I meant if three teams tie on points, then privilege their group-wide goal diff over their head-to-head goal diff (or, perhaps, only over their head-to-head goals scored). Of course, it would've made no difference last night (Italy's victory over Bulgaria *was* the narrowest of the three) but could prevent the rather absurd situation I outlined above. If three strong teams all draw with each other, giving precedence to higher scoring draws over margin of victory over the weak team in the group doesn't seem right.

If three teams have the same number of total group points, I believe they would necessarily have the same number of points in their head-to-head matches as well.

That may be true but I wasn't taking about points.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

What are the odds on an exact repeat of the Euro96 semis - England vs Germany, France vs Czechs. Not at all unlikely...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Indeed. And that would probably mean the same final too (with a CR triumph at the end though)

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 08:48 (twenty-one years ago)

England (my 2nd team) vs Czech Republic (because they were ace against the Dutch, and I don't have any historical baggage with them) in the final, please.

Misshajim is on the money. It must be horrible to be in Italy right now. TRAPATTONI MUST GO!

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It's similar to that used in the qualifiers, where the whipping boys results are removed from tie breaking - it was felt unfair to allow 'who put most San marino' be a tie-breaking situation. In this instance, that's almost similar ish type stylee.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I see your point, Michael, and am sitting on the fence a bit here. I guess the thought behind using goal diff and goals scored in h2h before in the whole group is that in most three-way point ties (and this is the only situation these come into play, so it's hardly an obscure side-effect either), the "other" team is either already knocked out or already through before the last match, so that overall gd/gs might unfairly favour the team meeting them last.

(Not that the teams that have been knocked out before the last round has laid down in the last match so far -- we'll see tonight if the Czechs are influenced by their position.)

― OleM (OleM), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:04 (twenty-one years ago)

the faces of the italian players when they switched from joy to despair after being told the scandies were breaking even after cassano scored were dramatic. i was surprised they even had the strength to keep playing those few minutes left and avoided bulgaria scoring a final goal.

― joan vich (joan vich), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Both fair points, DaveB and OleM; my approach is kinda illogical.

OleM - you meant not laid down, right? The Russians beat the Greeks after all. And the Bulgarians gave it a bloody good go.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Wherefore art though, Antonio?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, exactly, MJ.

(BTW I've checked my assumption that three teams on equal points will also have equal points in h2h table, and it is indeed so. Which in turn means that the points-in-h2h criterion is actually redundant.)

― OleM (OleM), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it's all about goals in the three-way tie.

Imagine this scenario:

A v B 3-0
C v D 6-0

A v C 0-1
B v D 1-0

A v D 1-0
B v C 2-0

Group table:
A 6; 4-1
B 6; 3-3
C 6; 7-2
D 0; 0-8

Head-to-head for the top three:
A 6; 3-1
B 6; 2-3
C 6; 1-2

Is it fair that C go out when they beat the top team and had the best group-wide goal diff? Perhaps it is.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

remember Italy went out in '96 because they lost to the Czechs despite having a better goal difference at the end

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

The gap in football between justice and reality is what makes it great IMO. Discussions such as this about trying to close it off are as enjoyable as they are ultimately fruitless. We follow a well worn path here...

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Italy went out in 96 because Cupcake, the German goalie saved a penalty. There was an omen for England here.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I reckon you should get one point for every goal scored and that should be how all football ever is judged.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I'm all for head-to-head results counting, it's just the special case of the three-way tie where the numbers dance on the page and it's all, "But we beat them!" "Yeah, but they beat them by more than you did." "But we hammered those others." "That was irrelevant. Should've saved yr energy, mate." Etc, etc.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't believe Germany fielded a goalkeeper called Cupcake

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

or was their goalkeeper actually a cupcake? (which would make the penalty miss all the more...understandable?)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Kupke, or summat.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought Dave B was actually calling me Cupcake, my posts are so unfunny now

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:56 (twenty-one years ago)

His name was Andreas Kopke, treacle.

I always want to add an 'f' to make it Kopfke; it's a legacy of Dennis Bergkampf.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

apparently Meinkampfe is struggling to regain fitness

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:01 (twenty-one years ago)

but what about the socks? *sobs*

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Talking of Cupcake, I enjoyed the co-commentator saying that the Croatian goalkeeper vs England was a bit "chocolate".

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

(I am also surprised nobody mentioned Wright, Hansen etc going mental over Roon giving the Croat GK THE EYES!!!!!!. I look forward to El Roono using his EYES vs the Portugeez.)

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i believe joe royal said "chocolate wrists", which i imagine to be similar to chocolate fireguard/teapot etc, however, not quite as evocative as "crispbag hands" i'm sure you'll agree...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

(sorry andy, i know not of the socks)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Chocolate wrists, wasn't it, Jerry? See also: chocolate fireguard and wet Echo. My mum knew Joe Royle when he was a nipper (much like yrself). A horrid little brat, apparently.

xpost

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

'look at this bit - here, the eyes - he just goes cold!'

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it fair that C go out when they beat the top team and had the best group-wide goal diff? Perhaps it is.

I think both alternatives are reasonable really. As long as we're rid of cross-group criteria like in USA'94.

― OleM (OleM), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, yeah, the 24 into 16 scenario ('86 and '90 too, I think). Rubbish.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

> (sorry andy, i know not of the socks)

http://football.guardian.co.uk/euro2004/story/0,14577,1239841,00.html

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

N. said:

I feel sorry for Sweden and Denmark. It it is 2-2 then no one will believe them it's not a stich up.

Watching Bulgaria, I thought of how Cozen might be saying: "they're playing my kind of football!".

I think I'm glad Italy are out. But I don't hope to offend Italian fans.

I said Rooney had done the keeper with his eyes, before they did. I didn't mean it - I just thought it was a silly thing to say that people say in such scenarios. Then they actually said it - *repeatedly*!

Mike's mathematical table makes me wonder why I could cope with such things in school, and not now. After about 4 lines my head failed. Should I look at it again?

― the junefox, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I just heard Alan Green talk about one player's "telescopic leg" and mention Holland's "extravagance of talent, exuberance of talent." Alan Partridge now makes so much more sense to me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"And the flashbulbs pop in this bizarre, curious and futuristic stadium!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

My non-ILX fantasy team has taken a turn for the better, with both Ballack and van Nistelrooy (Nistelrooij?) scoring in the last few minutes.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

anything you can do - i can do better !

Heinz the Czech player scores a sensational goal - even better than Ballack's goal.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

It was rather good. ITV commentators disagreeing on whether it's the best goal of the tournament so far.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

If the Lisbon score stays 1-1 and Holland stay in front, they will go through at Germany's expense.

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

no way that's goal of the tournament Vs. larsson & baros.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely you mean vs Rooney, or Rooney. Or maybe Rooney...

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Dahl Tommason's last night was my favourite so far.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Me too, I think. It was Larsson's header, but Tomasson's was a belter as well. I'm always reluctant to credit free kicks with "best goal" status as you can practice them till the cows come home, but a flash of true skill and/or ingenuity isn't something that comes along every day.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

How did Schneider miss that?!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Baros scores!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Achtung Fritz! For you ze European Championships are over!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Ollie K looks like a statue.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)

ha, top commentary: "A bank manager's nightmare: twenty thousand bouncing Czechs!"

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

The Germans are out! However, I am not being foolish enough to write them off, obviously.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Fucking carbon copy of Italy last night, huh?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

From what I saw Germany were a bit unlucky as well. The quarters are looking reaaally good though.

― Fergal (Ferg), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't think Germany were unlucky. They were beaten by the Czech reserves. They hit the woodwork once, but otherwise I can't see any ill fortune at all.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

They are unlucky in that they don't have a decent striker to go with their reasonably decent team.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

But, really, the tournament has been absolutely amazing so far, hasn't it?

Milan Baros, I love you more than words can tell.

― Pingu, Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:32 (twenty-one years ago)

A great tournament and Germany are a really bad side, compared to the best that Europe can offer (the mentality is still there bcz they did reach the last world cup final).

Italy, Germany and Spain: the teams that have played the ugliest, most negative football are out and I'm very happy about it.

(I feel a tad sorry for cassano but whatever really)

Group C turned out to be the group of death.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 June 2004 07:20 (twenty-one years ago)

It's good to see the Germans out. Now I love Germans and the German nation so much that some people might be inclined to doubt that I'm English, but at the same time it's refreshing to see different teams doing well. Martin is OTM upthread - the present German side doesn't deserve to progress.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 24 June 2004 07:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Deserve, deshmerve. We've got to ban that word. I'm guilty of it too. If the Germans had stuck a couple past the Czechs in injury time they'd have 'deserved' to go through. Once Baros scored (and, hey, controversial opinion - I think he's the best Merseyside-based played in this tournament) the Germans were as bereft of ideas as England against Brazil two years ago post-Ronaldinho.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 24 June 2004 07:32 (twenty-one years ago)

But eng didn't have gerrard for that Brazil match, and I think we relied on michael owen a bit too much whereas now we have more options.

The thing is that i think germans should've scored a couple even before barros got on the pitch.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 June 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

if the Germans have stuck a couple past the Czechs in injury time it would have been flukey and lucky! I say we keep "deserve". OK, so the French scored two after the 90 minutes were up against England, but they had been playing well for the rest of the match. Not so the Germans last night.

x-post

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 24 June 2004 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Rudi Völler has just quit.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I heard that. Who should replace him?

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 24 June 2004 08:57 (twenty-one years ago)

what's wrong with the word 'deserve'? have we had this debate before, actually, the question sounds familiar.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

http://bright-eyes.de/files/dieter-bohlen-2003.jpg

Seriously, though, I don't know know who would be a good replacement, and I don't think Völler was the problem anyway.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

If there's pens tonight I don't think i'll be able to watch.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 24 June 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, although I don't know who it should be, it probably WILL be Christoph Daum. Not a bad choice, either.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe Otto Reinhagel?

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.footballculture.net/players/images/klinsmann.

what's he doing these days?

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 24 June 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Hitzfeld?

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 24 June 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

All the German pundits are saying it's between Reinhagel & Daum, with Reinhagel slightly ahead -- but Daum, having cleaned up his act and kicked some ass in Turkey, is who I think will get it.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Hitzfeld has expressed an interest in the job I believe. I think Voller realised if he didn't go the kamikaze route, the German FA would get rid of him anyway.

I can't see how anyone can feel sorry for a team going out "because they didn't have a decent striker". That's kind of like saying, if they were a better team, it would have been a shame.

And for the record, I found the Italian 5-second celebration followed by reality hitting the funniest moment of the tournament so far.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

It wasn't really Voller's fault I don't think - he just didn't have the players to work with. There are too many average players in the German squad. More Germans should go abroad, possibly. And Hitzlsperger should start for them, never mind just being in the squad.

But yeah, they need to find some class players, and soon. That was their last competitive game before they host the WC in 2 years!

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree, and think that Völler left less out of a sense of responsibility for what happened than out of a sense that he'd already gotten evertything out of this bunch of players that he could.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

You heartless bastard, ___. Did you mean hara kiri rather than kamikaze, btw?

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

if anybody cares, iñaki saez has left the spanish team as well.
on tuesday he said he was staying, but the pressure was too strong, and yesterday he announced his departure.

― joan vich (joan vich), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

*listens in*

Hm. I do believe Michael Owen just did something.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a switch.

Portugal just scored a goal, and lit the fire under Becks.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a switch.

*coughs* I was referring to the goal he scored for *England*...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 June 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

At least, he finally scored one.

Question for evryone: Most of the press I've been reading waxes lyrical about Rooney. Other than his baby face, what's so special about him?

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

(People actually watching this on a telly: are the commentators just being twats in bitching about the referee, or is he seriously being useless/portugese?)

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

He's been very poor - at least half a dozen decisions going Portugal's way that I'm sure are wrong, a silly booking for Neville, and only one dodgy decision England's way so far. It's a nervous performance - but I have hopes that we will get a second goal and kill their spirits a bit.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I wouldn't say useless... But he has just booked Gerrard and Neville (?) and not cautioned Portuguese defenders for similar fouls.

I missed Neville's foul but I thought Gerrard merited a booking as Deco was heading for the area. And from the way he stood up waving, Gerrard knew it was coming.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't urs meier normally useless?

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

a few thoughts:

I'm shitting myself, this game is too open

Does Urs Meier have a Portugese mother - yes he's been atrocious, awful, Ronaldo has bought about three free kicks round the area and Vassell has been penalised for being climbed all over twice - utter rubbish

This is the best half of football Owen's played all season.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

the wonderful bastard.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I think the Gerrard booking was fair enough - but the Neville one was nothing, and there has been at least one Portugese foul every bit as bad and probably more deliberate than Gerrard's (Gerrard was very, very close to getting the ball). And they have committed a couple of entirely deliberate handballs without the ref getting his card out.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

still shitting myself

hmm the computer ate some of my post

if we win 2-1 I'm on for 170 quid - and a possible heart attack

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I forgot lampard was on until the commentator just mentioned him, (56:00).

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

urs meier looks like some hybrid of bobby george and a sun tan.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

The Portuguese have loads of skill but they don't seem to have the will/nouse to just burst into the box the way, say, Baros or Larsson does.

Ronaldo occasionally does it and I keep thinking Deco's about to do it then he loses possession or turns sideways.

If they did I think they'd have scored by now, but I'm almost starting to think England will hold on to this.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

England look very desperate. And John Motson has got into a trend of saying every "s" as "esssch" which is very annoying.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Think there's only 20 mins left, so no reason England shouldn't come out smelling of roses.

Make that 16 mins and counting.....

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Postiga scores!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

oh. 1-1. I might not have enough beer.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

(Spurs supporters left speechless)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

spurs expensive misfit scores !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

England will have to play for penalties. They look shite.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Postiga finally makes his mark in England

― de, Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Neutral swiss ref my @rse!

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Flipping heck! England "goal" disallowed and Portugal almost score on break as England celebrate!

(I think extra time has the "silver goal" rule - if you're in the lead at half-time in extra time, you win)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Having lived with Joe Royle as Manchester City manager, that is the first time I have seen him call something right in a long time.

I cannot see anything wrong with that campbell goal, but hopefully it will lift them for the 30 minutes of extra time.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

the ref is a homer !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

thankyou Urs Meier for costing me 170 quid. and for giving me palpitations. Commentators are saying terry fouled the keeper by "having his arm up in front of the keeper" I'm speechless.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok, so - how many times is this going to happen to Sol Campbell before 'the Campbell curse' becomes an accepted footballing fact?

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

And is it just me or does Simao look like Tracer Hand?

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

not wanting to sound Italian but that ref has been bought /joke

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The ref has been joke?

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't see how Terry fouled the keeper, much like everyone else. If anything, Sol fouled Terry, with his nice arm-round-neck getouttamyway thing!

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

this ref is Swiss-German cookoo clock crazy ! if only that Italian Kojak was the ref !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The Collina interview in the Observer at the Weekend was incredible insight. He was talking about how he misses goalscorers a lot of the time due to focussing on little parts of the game, and how he spent 2 days with the other World Cup final referee's assistants reviewing every game played by each side to make sure he got it right.

Unlike the bloke from Aha for this one.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"penalties".

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

From Rooney's eyes to Terry's eyes....

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Uhh...I'm feeling exhausted just from hearing this game and now I have to go up to the main desk and away from the online radio now, means I'll miss the second half of extra time. Gives me a chance to relax a bit, I hope!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Might I inquire where this online radio might be found?

I'm biting my nails just from the soccernet.com gamecast...

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Off the line! (by England)

And Rui Costa scores!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

An incredible shot.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't watch anymore, horrible horrible horrible

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

if only they had Ref + instant Video-Replays to review - that Sol goal would have been allowed !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Come on England.

(you're joking, right - Terry was about as obstructive as it's possible to be)

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

don't be so bitter/Italian Barry

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Cor.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Lampard scores! 2-2

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

frankie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

can someone call me an ambulance

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Wha', Chris? I can't believe there's any dispute about it.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

there is only one frankie lampard !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Hehe

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― tk, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Junior !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think I can stand penalties

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

CLOSE TO THE EDGE!
FRAGILE!
DRAMA!
RELAYER!
TALES OF..NO

― ..., Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

England fans might actually find other reasons to drink tonight.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

nurse!!!!!!

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Penalties....

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

who'd be english.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

oh christ, I'm home alone and need assistance

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

go england.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going in...... I may not be back

either way I am pretty proud here.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Beckham going first.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Misses

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Beckam just done a Jonny Wilkinson !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Rui Costa misses - back level!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Costa done a Wilkinson too

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

U R useless Costa done a Jonny Wilkinson too !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Vassell misses!! (save by Ricardo)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Ricardo scores! Portugal win.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Who starts the "I blame Beckham" thread?!

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

bugger, sullied only slightly by Ricardo's antics, but hey. I'm certainly not blaming Darius

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

It's the middle of the afternoon here. I want to cry.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I can only say: fuck. We were robbed.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not blaming Beckham either

Adam, I am a little bit

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

England LOST?

Well damn....

Really thought they'd squeak though. So much for having better reasons to drink.....

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Ricardo is my new hero. Saves one then fights Rui Costa off to score the next one.

(fwiw Terry fouls the keeper. I wouldn't personally give it, but then I would have given <40% of the free kicks in this tournament).

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"don't blame darius".

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"ricardo is an asshole".

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Absolutely cruel ! to go out on Penalties ! especially after that Sol disallowed [goal] in 90 minutes

X-post David Beckham can sell his "brand" to a pizza company now

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

^TM cozen t-shirts.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"he's a sensitive boy"

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Vassel cannot be blamed, his penalty was really well saved. Beckham...well....not blamed, but he is right to feel guilty. Got to get them on target.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"that penalty spot."

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

you can't fault any of the England players, not this time. Another day we would have won that.

I can't believe Beckham slipped again, dumb fucking luck

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

it could be worse, I could be watching it with 100,000 people in a rain lashed windswept field

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

DAMN

― I am not a mandible (Barima), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

haha true.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i blame coaching strategy! where the fuck was rooney for the penalties??? fuck.

― tk, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

What was Ricardo doing exactly? I can only hear vague descriptions on five live.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

rooney was injured

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"Flags of Saint George looking rather limp". How apt.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

took his gloves off ("bare handed!") then pushed the approaching nuno valente out of the way to take the last penalty himself.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

was Ricardo doing a Brucie Grobbelear? you know acting a clown?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ricardo was pure gamesmanship, eyeballing players at the spot, protesting at everything. Fair play to him playing the shootout with no gloves though

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Erikson telling Rooney to get out there after the injury strikes me as unsound.

Sorry everyone. I really wanted it to happen for ya this time!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ricardo complained that Hargreaves (I think?) didn't have the ball on the spot. But Hargreaves scored anyway.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

rooney was injured? whoa .. i only caught extratime on bbconline.

i blame beckham then.

― tk, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Erikson telling Rooney to get out there after the injury strikes me as unsound.

um, only players in play can take penalties.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

In one single moment your whole life can turn 'round
I stand there for a minute starin’ straight into the ground
Lookin’ to the left slightly, then lookin’ back down
World feels like it’s caved in – proper sorry frown
Please let me show you where we could only just be, for us
I can change and I can grow or we could adjust
The wicked thing about us is we always have trust
We can even have an open relationship, if you must
I look at her she stares almost straight back at me
But her eyes glaze over like she’s lookin’ straight through me
Then her eyes must have closed for what seems an eternity
When they open up she’s lookin’ down at her feet

Dry your eyes mate
I know it’s hard to take but her mind has been made up
There’s plenty more fish in the sea
Dry your eyes mate
I know you want to make her see how much this pain hurts
But you’ve got to walk away now
It’s over

So then I move my hand up from down by my side
It's shakin’, my life is crashin’ before my eyes
Turn the palm of my hand up to face the skies
Touch the bottom of her chin and let out a sigh
‘Cause I can’t imagine my life without you and me
There’s things I can’t imagine doin’, things I can’t imagine seein’
It weren't supposed to be easy, surely
Please, please, I beg you please
She brings her hands up towards where my hands rested
She wraps her fingers round mine with the softness she’s blessed with
She peels away my fingers, looks at me and then gestures
By pushin’ my hand away to my chest, from hers

And I’m just standin’ there, I can’t say a word
‘Cause everythin’s just gone
I’ve got nothin’
Absolutely nothin’

Tryin’ to pull her close out of bare desperation
Put my arms around her tryin’ to change what she’s sayin’
Pull my head level with hers so she might engage in
Look into her eyes to make her listen again
I’m not gonna fuckin’, just fuckin’ leave it all now
‘Cause you said it'd be forever and that was your vow
And you’re gonna let our things simply crash and fall down
You’re well out of order now, this is well out of town
She pulls away, my arms are tightly clamped round her waist
Gently pushes me back and she looks at me straight
Turns around so she’s now got her back to my face
Takes one step forward, looks back, and then walks away

I know in the past I’ve found it hard to say
Tellin’ you things, but not tellin’ straight
But the more I pull on your hand and say
The more you pull away

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I fucking hate football.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The radio d00ds are saying that this team will kill everyone in THE FUTURE.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Eriksson to stay for the World Cup-winning victory of 2006?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

as I said to Tim earlier, I hate loving football so much sometimes

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

um, only players in play can take penalties.

Cozen, my dear friend -- I KNOW that. I was mocking the ignorance of tk up above.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Was the referee CROOKED????

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

o, sorry ned.

I like michael owen.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

It just fucking stings so much to lose on penalties, AGAIN!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I know how you all feel right now. Sorry.

― Pingu, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry ned, i didn't KNOW rooney was out. i'm actually a very smart chap.

― tk, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Ricardo should have been cautioned, quite appalling. Germany '90, Germany '96, Argentina '98, and now Portugal 2004 :-((

― stevo (stevo), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

so the ref disallowed the Campbell goal "for a push" I've watched it again and I just can't see one, Terry jumped with him but there was never a push.

I don't think I've liked Ian Wright as much as I have tonight.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, poor old Wrightie was clearly mad as hell at the referee and rightly so.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Gutted. But don't have any complaints about the chopped off goal. If it happened at the other end we would've been raging. (Its a good way to look at these situations- How would you feel if it happened at the other end)
We defended too deep again and we look lost without rooney.

― Rock Bastard, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Terry did have his arm over the keeper's shoulder. Now arguably he wasn't holding him down and the keeper had screwed up anyway, but it was (just about) enough to give a foul.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely the best EURO ever?

Now nobody can't say shit to Scolari for taking Figo off and leaving Baia out. Beautiful game, Deco ended up playing as a right back, Ashley Cole had the game of his life, winning every battle with Ronaldo and clearing the ball off the line.

Also, Postiga doing a Panenka style penalty and Ricardo becoming THE HERO.

― Pingu, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I just realized that I must have unconsciously been expecting England to get to the final. I really wasn't expecting this to be over already.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

UEFA /FIFA need to bring in Ref "looks at Instant Video-Replays" for match critical situations in Tournaments.

we are living in 21st Century with modern technology - this isn't local park football.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry I'm not having it, I cannot see any encroachment whatsoever on the goalkeeper.

xpost, totally agree DJ

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

without human error and injustice it'd be a lesser game.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

so i am still listening to the postgame show on bbc5 ... and listening to the replays of campbell's "goal" ... and while i can't see the "goal" and can't comment on it, what the fuck is the ref doing allowing play to happen so quickly after he disallowed it? england players jumping around and hugging each other, and portugal were back on the attack just like that? that's some bullshit. or at least it sounds like it on the radio.

― tk, Thursday, 24 June 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

BOLLOCKS.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm glad we're out. I couldn't cope with another 120+ minutes of this tension. I mean, I'm getting on now... the old ticker couldnt cope.

Oh and Urs Meier's a cunt.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Terry has his arms up a bit as he is starting to jump, until Campbell gets on top of him; the ref ambles over into Terry, makes no attempt to jump, and then throws himself down as if he has been hit. A terrible decision by the ref - I watch several hours of football every week, and I know how protected goalkeepers are, but that is still a mistake. And had it been at our end I'd have been delighted and completely astonished, even a bit embarrassed, if a free kick had been given our way.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, replace 'ref' with 'keeper' in that first sentence!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Apologies for the foul language, I'm a little tired and emotional at the moment

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

martin OTM

― chris (chris), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

So...we want the Czechs to win now, right? Anyone but France!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Was it a good game? Worth me downloading for two days just so I can watch it?

A stupid question, of course I will.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd be perfectly happy for France to win - I like a lot of their players. I don't have any real preference, positive or negative, now England have gone.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

as a neutral that was a top entertaining game, i enjoyed it loads. penalties suck as a decider though.

― zappi (joni), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I never like it when we defend a lead by dropping everyone back - it hands the initiative over. Perhaps it's because the first World Cup I remember watching featured England going out something like that way (2-0 up against Germany, take off our best attacking midfielders, lose 3-2). But it didn't quite work against France, and it always seemed to be giving us trouble today. I know it should have worked, what with the disallowed goal, but I still think inviting teams whose strengths are up front to play entirely in your half, and not attacking them (we often looked dangerous when we did get people forward) is giving the opposition every chance.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Five Live listeners are vilifying the ref. I can't help but feel that this is futile; I thought Terry fouled the keeper.

Fortune favours the brave, and we were not brave tonight. We tried to defend a one-goal lead for 80 minutes again.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Martin OTM. Owen looked to be on form, for a change, but the service up to him was non exsistent, especially in the second half, as we we were content to soak up the pressure in the 6 yard box. Sometimes attack is the best form of defence.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck FuckFuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuc

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Can you say that again, Doc.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

shut the FUCK up.

― tk, Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

owen looked like he had a tired touch, tbh. messy. from 30 mins. on.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Agree with Martin - the Keeper was hugely lucky. Really. That was a lucky decision for him. and, to be honest, I would expect that to be allowed against my team, but I am used to seeing my team lose on a regular basis.

― ___ (___), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

You won't catch Google out like that, you know.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Even though Sol did score up to that point Portugual were going in and then back again. We couldn't hold the ball and build attacks, nothing whatsoever upfront after Owen's goal.

The back four were outstanding, Ashley killed ronaldo.

The portuguese were so fucking ordinary upfront, what with Figo not doing much -those awful free kicks in the first half- no really we should've won before Postiga got on the pitch.

I hate phil neville; falling over Rui costa just before he took that shot.

We did ok in the penalties, but whatever really.

bah.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

if anything this game convinced me of ronaldo's quality, when before I was doubtful. he still managed to table an 8/10 performance when being marked by a guy who was playing at the top of his (defending) game (cole, 10/10).

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

poor phil neville! What awaits him in the distant future?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I LIKE World In Motion!!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

My boss, who's English, took us all out to Busby's in Santa Monica to watch and drink. I actually enjoyed watching your "football" for once!

Also, I LIKE "World in Motion" too!!!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

My boss is from Philly. :(

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

And what do you MEAN "for once"????

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Agree with Cozen. I thought Ronaldo was an irritating prima donna before this tournament, but he worked his arse off tonight.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

As I texted a friend during the match - "It's reasonable for a player to throw his hands up when he's jumping!" In which case 'Hand Of God'=OK then...

fwiw, England had the wrong side of the gren to the side they had against against Spain in 96 - never close to being in the match, but looking fortune/unfortunate on penalties...

Ashley Cole was England's best player by a country mile though, Shame he was their only good one.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 24 June 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Contrary hat on. We got battered for 70 mins; if Campbell's goal had stood we'd never have had the phenomenal beauty of Rui Costa's vicious strike or the Linekeresque turn'n'snap of Lampard's leveller. I called RC's sky shot in the shootout, btw - Pinefox can confirm. Small comfort.

Remedy: watch Hero - the official film of 1986 World Cup - with 'powerful' Rick Wakeman soundtrack and 'disengaged' Michael Caine narration, at least as far as Butragueno's awesome foursome vs the magical Danes.

What a night.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Laudrup vs Uruguay: poorest 'greatest goal' ever?

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

haha!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Laudrup vs Uruguay: poorest 'greatest goal' ever?

In the sense that the defender ultimately stabbed it in? It reminded me of Jimmy Greaves, in a mirror, falling backwards into a pool filled with 10-bob notes. I need to sober up before bed.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Watching it and the alternate commentary again - Eusebio > all of England? According to the commentators, at least...

Also, to increase what I said above - Ashley Cole's best game for England *ever*. Pity he was the only player that good in the side...

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

with a surname such as: Jones does your ancestry have roots in Wales?

Also England have to face Wales in WC Qualifying - those will be great matches to look forward to.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Me and the Pinefox were saying - something to do with circumstance and expectation - the BBC analysts were as negative as they've ever been at half-time and yet, it was a semi-heroic defensive performance. If people were erecting statues and declaring national holidays (they weren't, but stay with me) in the wake of Italy 0-0 England in Oct '97, then this deserved some tiny sliver of the same admiring gaze. But Postiga scored unchallenged and we wuz undone.

Campbell as good as Cole, I think. Peter Reid correkt - shoulda pulled Beckham not Gerrard.

DJM: Welsh? Not that I know of. With the name Martian do you have off-Earth ancestry?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

gerrard was very slack with the ball. they all were, to some extent, I guess.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Contrary-Steady Mike OTM. England were battered for a lot of the game. I can't find the stats for the whole game, but I do recall it being about 65%-35% in favour of Portugal at one stage in the second half. England weren't robbed, put it that way.

Still, a shitty way to lose.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

sometimes you have to take people off before they faint rather than out of tactics I guess, as well. he looked chagrined and tired, gerrard, but he always looks like that. (does he ever smile?)

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I was also struck by the half-time negativity. Lineker had to remind viewers that England were actually winning. Even into the second half, all the talk was of 'bad omens', 'worrying for England', 'looking dangerous'. I didn't think Portugal looked like getting anywhere near the England goal until they actually, did.

I imagined Cole and Ronaldo swapping shirts at the end, like Edson and Bobby.

Perhaps I place too much stock in football romance.

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

swap shirts?

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Portugal really deserved to win: England weren't up to much, and definitely weren't robbed. But I loved Lampard's goal.

― cis (cis), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

What struck me as odd was the whole "England are winning but more importantly Wayne Rooney has hurt his ankle" spiel that Motson was spinning for most of the game. If they'd won 1-0, who'd really have cared whether or not Rooney was involved?

*cue several million English people shouting "me!"*

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Worse than the Rooney obsession was the "I still really can't see anything wrong with Sol Campbell's goal" mantra that ran through the entire first period of extra time. Was Ken Wolstenholme still blabbing on about the harsh whistle on Jackie Charlton that led to West Germany's equaliser in '66 deep into the extra half-hour? I do not believe he was. Get on with it!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

A couple of callers on FiveLive tonight believed John Terry was offside when he came back onto the pitch after the ball hit the crossbar. Though I believe the ref did give it for a foul on the goalie rather than any offside decision.

Also, the ref looked like David Bowie.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

what david bowie?

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:39 (twenty-one years ago)

ailsa, david bowie is a chameleon - which album/ david bowie period did the ref remind you of ?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm confused by your confusion, Cozen.

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

my first confusion was an offer not a question. the second confusion? vice-versa.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

This kind of Bowie. It's the hair and beard I think (there's probably a billion better pictures, but I can't be arsed searching through the 51,800 Google image results for "bowie".

http://www.hikin.com/zine/2001/0915/bowie.jpg

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought the ref looked like willem dafoe

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

haha I see it.

x-post.

he definitely looked like someone.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I mean Tin Machine-era Bowie. I also can't find a picture of the ref which illustrates this either. One of my friends agreed with me in the pub tonight though, so I am not alone.

It's like my Scolari=Gene Hackman theory which I think is foolproof but lots of others don't see for some ludicrous reason.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Several billion x-posts; irrelevance/pissheadedness unaffected.

disclaimer: the post of a very, very drunken english twat in state of hitherto unexperienced nationalistic fervour (there may be spelling mistakes!!)

The best goal ever vote is so blatantly down to The Van Basten Physically Impossible Volley (the actual best Euro goal evuh) Vs That Really Very Good Gascoigne Goal That Made All Those Scottish People I Was Watching The Game With Outside Dixons In The Pallasades Cry Like Bitches (which everyone will, possibly inevitably, vote for).

Ok, so at half time I was like, OK, Owen scored, I'm very glad, feller deserves it and it was an amusingly deft finish, it's bad that Rooney's off but hah, fuck it, the dumbass myopic tabloids deserve it and least that there Darius has a chance to make more than a couple of moderately tricky runs in the last 15 minutes.

Half time = You've defended the slender lead against the slightly-above-decent hosts. OK.

Second half: YOU BORING CUNTS, I KNOW, WHY NOT TRY TO ACTUALLY WIN A GAME OF FRIGGING FOOTBALL INSTEAD OF SEEING HOW MANY TIMES YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH POOR HAPLESS DAVID JAMES DROPPING THE FUCKING BALL.

Having watched the replay of the disallowed goal a couple of times, but probably not enough, and expressed my opinion of it loudly enough to severely risk Actual Proper Disembodiment by two or three people with much less hair than me, Terry fouled the goalkeeper. Bear in mind by this stage I'm frothing at the mouth.

Lampard goal = I have never, ever experienced anything like the utter batshit joy resulting from this that went on in the fairly small pub I watched the game in. This seemed to me slightly above the normal level at which England typically capitulate to Bad Luck, and made me unusually proud of people who happened to be born in the same arbitrary geographical landmass as me.

I'm interested as to whether D Vassell, Beckham, That Goddamned Forrin' Referee, or the muddy patch at the penalty spot gets the blame for what was, as far as I can tell, a terrible second half performance, briefly rescued and then lost again in a fashion that any motherfucker can lose, especially if he's English.

as I said to Tim earlier, I hate loving football so much sometimes

English supporting portion of thread = won.

― Fergal (Ferg), Thursday, 24 June 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought I'd imagined Motson making that absurd 'who cares if we're winning if Rooney's injured' remark; I probably disregarded it because we were winning.

I forget who the referee reminded me of, though it might well have been Bowie because I listened to Station To Station before the match.

― Fergal (Ferg), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

really crass that the commentator emphasized ref's swissness just after the disputed play

and yeah if the situation had been reversed and he'd ALLOWED it the commentators would have whined twice as loudly, we wuz robbed etc (although it did seem to clash with bowie/dafoe's "let 'em play" attitude for the next ten minutes; i wonder sometimes if refs feel a subliminal pressure to "balance things out" after a hairline call that falls particularly hard for one side, either thru easing up on the reins or being super-strict with the other team)

i was astonished by a lot of things in this game like: why was figo pulled the moment after he got his first really good shot on goal? (i mean in general he wasn't playing well and it obviously paid off but still it seemed kind of harsh; i like figo, he's beckham-like in his handsome yet faded grandeur)

and: what was up with that third portuguese penalty where he just lofted a wobbly putt into the right side??

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

As far as I can remember the Portuguese just Totally Took The Fucking Piss on all of their penalties, in varying fashions.

― Fergal (Ferg), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean c'mon, stopping for a half-second in the middle of your run-up, I've already accepted that England deserved to lose by that stage but that shit is just immoral.

― Fergal (Ferg), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

We lost because ITV have a program called Dumb Foreigners.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.elbarca.dk/simao.jpg

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i also liked the brief shot, late in the game, of an england supporter standing by himself and taking a massive toke

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 June 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

This is genius.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

All Irish use of 'brutal' as insult, ever, ever = mega classic

'Don't set foire t'dat house' = classic. The rest = a bit forced.

I remain ever so slightly more loyal to the Irish national team than the English.

― Fergal (Ferg), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

When applicable.

― Fergal (Ferg), Friday, 25 June 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

As far as I can remember the Portuguese just Totally Took The Fucking Piss on all of their penalties, in varying fashions.

Well not all of them but Postiga's penalty...oh boy...what balls. In a sense you can't win after a gesture like that, a sort of "I don't care...this is all meaningless...fuck you all". Of course when Ricardo decided to take the last one the thing was decided, he totally messed with the...ahem...decorum...of the shoot-out.

― Omar (Omar), Friday, 25 June 2004 07:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Ricardo fits that crazy south american goalkeeper stereotype, didn't he tell the guy who was taking the pen after vassell to turn away, then he scored the best penalty! and saving vassell pen without gloves, wonder what that was about.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 June 2004 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

(Omar's is surely the first evah use of "decorum" on this thread?
Well used, too!)

Ricardo wz a hoot, yep.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 25 June 2004 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

"go to www.ursmeier.ch/referee/ and click on the feedback
section. Under "vorname" enter your first name, under
"nachname" enter your surname. Then fill in your email address
and let rip."

― chris (chris), Friday, 25 June 2004 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

and saving vassell pen without gloves, wonder what that was about.

Symbolic warfare innit? Basically telling Vassell: "Stopping your shot is going to be so easy, I don't even need gloves."

― Omar (Omar), Friday, 25 June 2004 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Yep, and he was going to get his hands tied behind his back for the one after.

What was up with Scholes? The silky skills of the Ginger Prince hardly figured at all while he was on...

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

The Portuguese deserved to win. If you play a radically defensive game for almost the entire match to protect a 1-0 lead, you leave yourself very vulnerable. The chances of your scoring are reduced to almost nil, the chances of the other team scoring are 50/50 at worst. Therefore poor strategy. I can't work out whether the disallowed goal was actually a foul or not, in any case it was close enough not to be a blatantly wrong decision by the ref.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Jonathan completely OTM

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Not that I'm one for finding strawmen and excuses ("we were shite" is the only excuse), Ricardo wasn't wearing gloves when he saved the Vassell penalty - isn't that illegal according to the rules of the game? Also the stalled run-up is meant to be illegal now too, I gather?

X-post; Jonathan indeed OTM, I've been saying that for three weeks. Negative play has been punished in this tournament - Italy, Holland's first game, us against France, Spain...

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't understand why Beckham hit his penalty with maximum pastry after they'd already met with problems with the spot the day before in training.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

It's because he's not very bright.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Beckham slipped *again* he was the opnly one not stamping the spot down.

Playing with no gloves is allowable, but yeah I thought the stutter was not allowed.

I thought young Ashley would miss a penalty - glad he proved me wrong - England's player of the tournament?

When I went to bed last night it was odd, I wasn't inconsoleable, just kind of numb.

― chris (chris), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I was under the impression that glvoes had to be worn by peekers (I've noticed this typo but like it, so am leaving it in) in order for referees to be able to tell from a distance who's hands have touched a ball in a crowded penalty area; obv. that's not necessary for a penalty shoot-out, but isn't it still in the rules?

It does make the penalty save more impressive though.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:28 (twenty-one years ago)

could've been worse, could've lost the *semi-final* on penalties after having a seemingly ok last minute goal disallowed...

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

As a neutral observer, that was one of the best games of football I have EVER seen, and nobody deserved to lose it. And yes, the Portugese keeper was fouled.

If Portugal doesn't win the whole thing, it'll be as a result of giving EVERYTHING against a fantastic English team.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

The Urs Meier's website has fanclub and when you click on it, it comes up with 'this page cannot be displayed'.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:48 (twenty-one years ago)

He's got an email address though, if anyone wants to send him a message :

[email protected]

― C J (C J), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Also I've not heard anything made of Ashley Cole's clearance off the line; the England players in the box all hesitated before clearing it further, suggesting they thought it had gone in. I've just heard from someone at the match who was near that touchline and he said he thought it had gone in too, and that Cole's body language suggested he didn't think he'd made it in time.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

And yes, the Portugese keeper was fouled

How so?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Avid NYPLM reader Chris Moyles took up the 'Dry Your Eyes' meme at 7am this morning.

Fuck this 'deserved' shit for Portugal! Yes we foolishly went in for defensive play, but the ref's hostility made them timid. He was corrupt before robbing us of the match.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

He was fouled because John terry had his arm over his shoulder, thus restricting him from jumping. I'm sorry but I totally would not expect any different in the premiership; I'm not saying it's right, but it happens all the time - slightest touch on the keeper these days = FOUL.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoaa, the referee called it a foul because of a push, WHAT PUSH ?!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

A downwards push?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

from a offensive and defensive point of view i think heskey shdve come on instead of vassell. (nothing to do with the pen)(tho defoe wdve put it away but nevermind)

― prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd say Terry is fouling with his left arm...

http://images.thisislondon.co.uk/v2/sport/euro2004/solcampbellPA250604_350x450.jpg

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

he definitely looked like someone.

Tom Waits.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I know motion is all relative and shit, but the goalkeeper jumped *up* into Terry's arm. The photo can't show that.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

A stuttering run-up to a penalty is not illegal - a dummy is, but not a pause in the run-up. As for the alleged foul, Terry had his arms up for jumping purposes, and the keeper managed to get under it - it was certainly not a case of Terry putting his arm on the keeper.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm with Tracer: he looked like Willem Defoe.

And, Enrique, that's conspiracy-theorist bollocks worthy of Italy: the ref was not 'corrupt' - I don't think it was really a foul, either, but it did look one hell of a lot like one.

― cis (cis), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

As soon as Terry's header looped up off the bar you knew there'd be a whistle if Ricardo didn't catch it cleanly. I'm not sure I've ever seen a goal stand in those circumstances. Perhaps someone can clear up the old saw about intent when impeding someone; all this "Look at Terry's eyes, he was only thinking of the ball" clearly doesn't wash.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't mean he was corrupt as in taking bribes, but morally.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Whenever you see this kind of situation, an awkward moment & players jumping with the keeper & the ball flops into the goal, you expect the ref to give a foul before you've even had a chance to look closely at a replay. Technically, there may not have been a foul, but just being in that situation almost amounts to a default foul. Campbell was about as cheated as a penalty taker whose shot is saved after the keeper moves out slighly early, i.e. in theory, but that's not what matters on the pitch and everyone playing knows it.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm still milling about in the 'denial' and 'blame' zones, hopefully i'll be well into the acceptance stage by the end of the day whereby I'll look again at the disallowed goal and it will indeed be a blantant foul.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

When I saw the replay i thought it was a definite foul, and I put Joe Royle saying it wasn't down to the excitement of the moment. But then the BBC panel all said it was a foul as well, and the RTE panel were leaning that way as well. I don't understand, it still seems a clear foul to me.
And if you don't accept that, the picture above shows Campbell using Terry to help him climb, which is also illegal and a free out.

― Joe Kay (feethurt), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

haha i guess what sorts the dilletante football viewer like me from the real fans is the willingness to attribute to 'what matters on the pitch' mystical authority. because i don't need to believe in the game i will go on feeling it unjust.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Apparently the Eurosport team showed replays of Cole clearing off the line, and deduced that it was over.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

So, cabbage, accept my point of view yet?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Replace 'BBC panel all said it was a foul' with 'BBC panel all said it wasn't a foul' in my post above.

That Helder Postiga 'My holidays' thing The Guardian are doing does seem funny today.

― Joe Kay (feethurt), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

that was such a great match.
both teams could have won at any moment, as a neutral i had a lot of fun and i kept switching my sympathies from one to the other as the game went on.
but i'm afraid your passion doesn't let you accept that ricardo was fouled (i'm tempted to write 'ricardo was fouled' in a Dr. C manner here). penalties are always unfair, and portugal had the luck on their side this time.
i insist: the game was amazing and both teams deserved to win.

― joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

No Barry, I can see why it was given, but it weren't a foul. The keeper was nnowhere near the ball and wouldn't havegot it in a million years

― chris (chris), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

it was, man.
accept it.
england played a great game, ashley cole was awesome, lampard's goal was fantastic. you can very proud.
but it was a foul.

― joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Since when can it be a foul if Campbell climbed on Terry? I don't understand that line at all.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

eng didn't play well.

x-post: jones is right, those things are not given.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Since when can it be a foul if Campbell climbed on Terry?
Using your teammates to gain leverage/height is illegal. I think it comes under 'ungentlemanly conduct', but whatever, it's a foul.(Otherwise teams could go piggy-back at corners)

― Joe Kay (feethurt), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

he definitely looked like someone.

Richard Branson

― Huey (Huey), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Terry done him with his eyes!

I haven't seen today's Postiga diary: classic?

This is:

DJM: Welsh? Not that I know of. With the name Martian do you have off-Earth ancestry?

I agree with just about everything that Mike said. I think I am a lo less upset and frustrated about going out of the tournament than I might have been, because I watched it with him.

Oh, and it's true: he said Rui Costa would sky it - and (when I groaned at Terry's approach) that Terry would score - because "every professional footballer has to be able to hit a target from 12 yards".

I agree with Cookie about surprising pundit negativity, etc, too.

Laudrup's run was smashing!

― the bellefox, Friday, 25 June 2004 10:31 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe england (nor portugal) didn't play well, but they played a great game.
the best on this tournament yet.

― joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 25 June 2004 10:32 (twenty-one years ago)

The keeper was a (England defender-shaped) body's distance from the ball, Chris! Of course he couldn't get closer! And he had plenty of time to - the ball hung in the air for ages.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 25 June 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

joan vich and Colin Meeder have said it perfectly.

Mark i can't help reading your last post but one in a Kenneth Williams voice.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

As an England fan I can never tell if a competetive game has been entertaining or not (I can with friendles, cuz they NEVER FUCKING ARE); too involved? Too critical?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I had a question along similar lines about this match i.e. regardless of whether or not you liked it, was it a "good" match, or a "bad" one? And what's the difference? I would imagine a general level of aggression and most passes getting completed might make a "good" match, but I'd kind of expect both at a tournament of this level, frankly.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

th - I've lost yr phone number, did you get the mail?

― chris (chris), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.frostimagecreation.com/fly/dummy.jpg

― allez les bleus, Friday, 25 June 2004 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

My ex-ref Dad, who ALWAYS sides with the ref, even if he's standing in the middle of a hoard of outraged Woking fans when the decision's just gone against them, and in a very loud voice at that, felt obliged to phone home from Sweden to confirm that THERE WAS NO FOUL, IT WAS A GOAL.

I noticed the possession standing at 69% - 31% at one point BUT the only team that deserves to win is the team that gets the ball in the back of the net and for all but one of those 80-odd minutes that Portugal were battering away, they didn't. Campbell and Cole were both terrific. Campbell's performance reminded me of the way he played against Argentina in '98, coming out of nowhere and scooping the ball cleanly away from his opponent's feet so many times.

The commentary was terrible. 1966 watch: 1 minute and 26 seconds from kick-off. I started to wish I'd put a bet on a commentator saying the words "Boy Wonder", which the Metro said was going at 10-1 - well worth a punt, I thought - but then he had to come off and as far as I remember, the words were not uttered.

I hear the penalty spots were fucked because of all the penalty practising that'd been going on the previous day. What an irony.

― Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm increasingly baffled by the outrage over the disallowed goal. The Sun called Meier CHEATING REF. How is making a (possibly) bad decision cheating?

(They still insisted on a Rooney pun for the headline so fuck'em anyway)

― Fergal (Ferg), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, I am never watching a significant England match alone again, EVER. Having nobody to discuss it with made it all very much more intense and I nearly died of ack.

― Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank you L, thankyou. *all* good points

Owen said last night that the other one was messed up the night before before they even started practising!

and yes, me too. you should have phoned me

― chris (chris), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"only team that deserves to win is the team that gets the ball in the back of the net"

cozen I think THAT is what is meant by the word "deserving" getting a good long holiday.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

i.e. the disallowed goal only made it about one or two feet in

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, that struck me too on reading madchen's post, th. I still like the word though and will still use it, for its slippage.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Madchen is right re. watching alone: as said above, Steady M's insight deepened the match for me. Maybe that's why it was a Good Match?

But TS: watching England alone vs watching England with Scots?

― the junefox, Friday, 25 June 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I am a Scot and I watched it alone. It was so-so.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean the experience was so-so, not the game.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I am a scot and I watched it alone. it was tense.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

What was up with Scholes? The silky skills of the Ginger Prince hardly figured at all while he was on...

-- NickB (nic...), June 25th, 2004.

I feel sorry for Scholes, scores 15 - 20 goals every season for Man Utd & all the top teams in europe would love to have him but what happens when he turns up for England? We play him out of position!!! Only this country would do such a thing.

― littlerock, Friday, 25 June 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

'My ex-ref Dad, who ALWAYS sides with the ref, even if he's standing in the middle of a hoard of outraged Woking fans when the decision's just gone against them, and in a very loud voice at that, felt obliged to phone home from Sweden to confirm that THERE WAS NO FOUL, IT WAS A GOAL.'

I think it could be a difference between british and european refs?

so if this happened in a premiership match => goal

euro QF => maybe side with the goalkeeper.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

You haven't met my Dad, have you?

― Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, I have actually. he's ok!

I'm just thinking that its maybe a trend with european referees nowdays and maybe they will give the benefit to the goalie in that situation than premiership refs.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

or the host team.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

get off it ste man,
there's no home conspiracy,
mourn and then MOVE ON

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i was just joshing chief, i'm over it.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

haha headline in this morning's Daily Star: URSHOLE!

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

damn did you call me chief? OUCH.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

T -2:13

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 25 June 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

The BBC didn't even show a replay of the "was-it-or-wasn't-it-over-the-line" incident, did they? I think I kind of forgot about it until I read the papers this morning due to total lack of it being mentioned on the TV (didn't watch any of the post-match blurb though).

― ailsa (ailsa), Friday, 25 June 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

look here now.

"I want greece to win.

are they in it?
-- cozen (coze...) (webmail), May 18th, 2004 12:45 PM. (Cozen) (link)"

"er, moving back to Santini.. it's an exciting appointment though you can imagine the scenes in the French camp pre-E2k4: Henry (mock concern, giggling): "Boss, you do know what you're letting yourself in for ?" Vieira (stifling chuckles): "No, zey really can beat us, honestly !"

He also wins my vote cos he used to play for my beloved Saint Etienne in their great 70s team (pre-Platini contrary to popular myth).

France winning Euro 2004 would be a good omen - wouldnt it? - mind you, the last time we signed a World Cup winner we promptly got hammered 0-7 at Anfield on the way to a mediocre 11th followed by an all-too-contemporaneous 14th the next season..
-- darren (saintetienne7...) (webmail), June 4th, 2004 10:21 PM. (darren) (link)

greece.
-- cozen (coze...) (webmail), June 4th, 2004 10:31 PM. (Cozen) (link)"

look there now.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

if only.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Greece win!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

― littlerock, Friday, 25 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

phenomenal.

I might just win my bet after all.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

France have been knocked out by the Greeks!

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow! Great performance by Greece, but given the players that France have, I can only assume that France have a really dreadful manager.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I stand to win £20 if the greeks win the tournament. if they don't my friend pockets £5.

keep the faith.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Greece were very negative and boring, but all credit to them, it works!
Martin I think you may mean Spurs have a really dreadful manager..

― Rock Bastard, Friday, 25 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

greece played some tremendous football. 'negative' and 'boring' in the second half, more so, but the commentators where overplaying this 'line' at half time when greece had actually played some nifty sweeping football.

'if you're so good, come and beat us.'

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

they have a much nicer touch than I would have allowed.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I can only assume that France have a really dreadful manager.
-- Martin Skidmore

And Greece sure have a helluva smart one :)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

...and Germany won't get him back any time soon.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

After my depression yesterday, my spirits are picking up at the prosepct of a final without Italy, England, France, Germany, or Spain. Who woulda thunk it? Czechs will win it I think.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Time -21:40 !!

I'm looking forward to that Sweden vs Ned'lands game already, hotdammit.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Fantastic: all the teams that played shitty football are actually getting kicked out, not a single bit of luck to save any of them.

I have to say when the greeks got that goal they held the ball really well, did keep advancing and then seeing their coach telling them to keep going forward when they appeared to be going back...I got a bit mad, why the fuck couldn't eng do some of that last night.

I know the greeks spent some of the last quarter just defeding but they did far more.

France took 'em for granted so now they can fuck off.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40312000/jpg/_40312861_papers_woe_416.jpg

― vip, Friday, 25 June 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

a question: the Greek Central defender Traianos Dellas - is he good enough to play in the premiership?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

seitaridis.

as good as lahm.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Yay! Greece will fuck you up!!

-- cypriot poster (cyprio...), June 12th, 2004.

Bring on the Czechs, Swedes, Dutch whoever , we'ill do it!!!!

Michel Platini, Francois Mitterand, Joan of Arc, Johnny Halliday,
Jean Seberg, Giscard D'Estaing, Moliere, Fabien Barthez, Albert Camus, Marie Antoinette, Claude Debussy, Sophie Marceau, Maximilien François Marie Isidore de Robespierre, Air, Charles De Gaulle, Michel Houllebecq, Claude Monet, Brigitte Bardot, Gerard Depardieu,
Lois Pasteur, your boys took a hell of a beating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― cypriot poster, Friday, 25 June 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Julio should be a football journalist!!!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Friday, 25 June 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I THOUGHT ALBERT CAMUS WAS ALGERIAN

(well done on fucking Air over, though, Greeks)

― Fergal (Ferg), Saturday, 26 June 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Best tournament evah. (so far)

― Pingu, Saturday, 26 June 2004 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

T -8:30!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 26 June 2004 09:15 (twenty-one years ago)

go to www.ursmeier.ch/referee/ and click on the feedback
section. Under "vorname" enter your first name, under
"nachname" enter your surname. Then fill in your email address
and let rip.

This was actually recommended on the ITV news last night.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 26 June 2004 10:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Greece are rock. Apart from Karagounis, who falls over like no-one's business, obv., but still.

They're a proper solid unit of players - take one out individually and he'd probably look a bit out of his depth, but when they're together they're indomitable. They were defending as a team, attacking as a team - the communication and trust was perfect. Anything France threw at them, they knew how to take it and snuff it out. With one or two exceptions, none of France's attempts at goal were ever threatening, cos by the time they'd worked their way into the position to do anything they'd expended so much effort that Nikopolidis had no trouble dealing with the resulting shot. And when they attacked, they were really impressive and organised too - no hopeful lumping to the big feller like you might expect, but controlled play and use of the ball. The goal illustrated everything the Greeks did right and the French did wrong - the Zagorakis flick putting him in space with options a-go-go, that bullet of a header, and the French being out of position then shouting at each other once it had gone in. If the roles had been reversed, you couldn't see the Greeks blaming each other. Football won and the G14 lost. Beautiful.

Plus which, in the semi you get Greece vs. either the Czechs or Denmark, who also have great teamwork. I dunno if the Greeks will be able to take them - they do have this slight tendency to fall off towards the end of matches, as well as occasionally being a little susceptible to nerves (the Russia game, plus towards the end last night they had this definite air of 'Hang on, we aren't meant to be this good') - but the match should be fantastic.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 26 June 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the referee was a Homer.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 26 June 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

robben looks difficult to defend.

awful commentating display. not turkey, you klutz.

― cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Not a great game, but kind of compelling all the same.

And now penalties again....

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I quite liked Robben before tonight, but he dived a few times and feigned getting hit in the face when the replay showed he wasn't.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Blmey, all cracking penalties so far - but Ibrahimovic misses!

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably the right result tonight - despite the dreadful Dutch diving, Sweden didn't look the same side they were in the group stages.

So, Portugal vs Holland. Two legendary bottlers. Will both sides even turn up?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

― Hanna (Hanna), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Holland going through on penalties -- this is a first or wot?
:)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd just like to say that I enjoy Bloody Swygart's long posts a lot.

― OleM (OleM), Saturday, 26 June 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Holland going through on penalties -- this is a first or wot?

Jaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! A national neurosis has been lifted. So we'll gladly pass over the ownership of The Worst Penalty Taking Crown over to England. :)

Crap game though. Another team that let themselves bore to death by the Sweden.

Eh yeah, you'll see a lot of Robben's diving next year in the premiership. He's a special player but that's one thing that sometimes makes him unbearable.

Mind you, he's angel compared to the Greeks. They sort of invented a new way of defending: the-take-a-dive-whenever-someone-even-looks-at-you.

― Omar (Omar), Sunday, 27 June 2004 05:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, maybe it was the company but I didn't think it was that bad a match. I mean, didn't the Swedes hit the woodwork twice, maybe three times, in extra time? Moderately pulsating stuff.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 27 June 2004 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm with Mike on this one - it was fairly good stuff. I think after the Holland v Czech Republic / Sweden v Bulgaria goal-fests it seemed a bit of an anti-climax, but it could have gone either way for the whole game which doesn't make for a dull game in my book. Especially when you have no real interest in who wins so can enjoy it without the attendant nerves/blinkers.

Also re. awful commentators, didn't Tyldesley refer to Ibrahimovic as Dutch in the build-up? I know he plays there, but I'm sure that's not what he said.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 27 June 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

also mentioned the change in pace 4 times over 15 minutes; called rehhaggeeeel (sp?) the turkey manager and just generally annoyed.

the game was good; I always find myself rooting for someone.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 27 June 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Going back, if I may, to England's disallowed 'goal'. Possibly the equivalent of knocking the ball too far in front of yourself then being tripped. What I mean is, the goalkeeper was lucky that he got slightly fouled, as he was never going to get to ball anyway. But, possibly just a foul nonetheless.

As for Portugal's chance-off-the-line, it seems unbelievable that this was never shown again. I mean, the director is Portuguese, surely?

Holland vs Sweden was indeed A DECENT GAME. McCoist and Earle both agreed that Sweden were negative and so deserved to lose more than the Dutch, and once again I found myself wondering if they'd been watching the same game as I. In extra time especially, the Swedes had more near misses than I remember the Dutch having in the rest of the match. In fact, overall, the best extra time period I have seen in a long time. Silver Goal is certainly an improvement on the awful Golden Goal. When will they bring back good old-fashioned normal extra time, though?

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 27 June 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

As for Portugal's chance-off-the-line, it seems unbelievable that this was never shown again

It seems to have been excised from history, perhaps to emphasise the hard-done-by aspect of Sol Campbell's debated effort. Not like that shot that Fabien Barthez caught after it rebounded off the inside of the post which was replayed about fifty times from various different and staggeringly inconclusive angles.

Was the commentator correct? Have all silver goal matches always extended to the second half of the extra period? Why do they even do this anyway, is there a good reason why Silver Goal was invented (so that TV shows don't over-run by more than necessary)? Is it just a case of half-climbing down after the lottery that was the Golden Goal? And will it just go back the way it was eventually?

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 27 June 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

'Silver goal' is much better and should stay, there shouldn't be any more extra time than necessary. I think the 'golden' goal was ditched bcz it was maybe a bit too traumatic for the losing side, whereas here you have a bit of time to come back.

Disagree with Ally C here. Holland played the more attacking football throughout the game, sweden hit the bar a couple of times, holland hit it once with the goalkeeper's missed save off Robben's shot, and makkay (sp?) was really unlucky as he was there for the tap in but the ball came off the post at the wrong angle. But overall, sweden spent more time hanging in there.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 June 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i found the game very boring until the extra time. then it rose to what was expected from these two teams. all in all, i was glad they got to the penalties, so any of them could win. i hope tonight's will be better!

― joan vich from, Sunday, 27 June 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Harking back a bit, but I don't think David Pleat's total inability to say 'Lizarazu' has been mocked here. I think the closest he got was 'Lizazaru' a few times.

I like everything about 'silver goal' except the stupid name. Playing one 15 minute ET period, then another if still level, gives a better chance of a result decided by normal football than one 30 minute period.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 27 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Holland were better, but they were both rather inconsistent and lackign in coherency. Bouma was the best defender on show, which does rather say something - there were loads of chances, but only rarely were they at all convincing. Everything seemed to break down when they hit the box - Larsson and Van Nistelrooy both ran their socks off but neither could get much service, while Ibrahimovic left his talent in the hotel and brought his temperament instead. He might be skilful for a big lad, but even if he were fifteen feet tall he'd still be a stroppy bugger. I can't wait to see how good Kim Kallstrom's gonna be though - he's like Bastian Schweinsteiger, except actually properly good!

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 27 June 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Hasn't anyone remarked on the disastrousness of Wilhelmsson's hair? It's a mullet! With a quiff! And blond streaked bits! Yikes! (See also Bastien Pigfucker)

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Sweden shoulda won that. The Netherlands weren't that great.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus which, his facial hair is the same as him out of the Stereo MC's.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

God, yeah, I knew he reminded me of someone. I also have serious hatred for Jesper Gronkjaer's wee tufty bits of bottom-lip hair (I'm not dignifying it by calling it a beard).

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I now fear Martin Laursen will miss a penalty tonight.

― Fergal (Ferg), Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it just me or is the Czech midfield defense a fucking iron wall of death?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 27 June 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Most ridiculous dive of the competition from Gronkjaer gets Nedved booked.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Sunday, 27 June 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Loved the way they blew them off in 15 mins. I really do hope they win this, but we'll see.

gronkjaer was terrible but the refs encourage 'em. But there should be an appeal.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 June 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

diving's ok.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 27 June 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

There are no video refs and many refs will fail to spot it so it will go on, whether its ok or not.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 June 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see the problem.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 27 June 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry, I've been away for a few days -- Greece *beat* France? Good lord. I'm looking forward to this final quite a bit!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 June 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Jaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! A national neurosis has been lifted. So we'll gladly pass over the ownership of The Worst Penalty Taking Crown over to England. :)

Sorry but England will be sharing the Worst Penalty Taking Crown with Italy who are absolutely appalling at spot kicks.

― azob, Monday, 28 June 2004 09:08 (twenty-one years ago)

are greece good?

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 28 June 2004 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

cozen are you bored?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 June 2004 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Lady, if you have to ask, etc. (x-post to cozen) Why not watch the bloody matches?

Incidentally - which websites do people think provide the best sports news coverage, football specifically? I'm not satisfied with the ones I use.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 28 June 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img.radio.cz/pictures/ctk0303/brucknerx.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/295000/images/_298430_johnny_morris_light300.jpg

― Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 28 June 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I have been watching the matches, lady. why not read the bloody thread?

I want to know what you bloody think.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 28 June 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

bloody this, bloody that.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 June 2004 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

now now.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 28 June 2004 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Cor.

Sweden - Netherlands was OK.

I am glad that The Netherlands won, if on penalty kicks.

I hope that the Czechs win it now?

Silver goal, like gold, is on the way out, I hear.

Hansen was very good last night!

― the junefox, Monday, 28 June 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

um, he was good up to the bit when he tried to make excuses for england's poor performance by saying they were tired after a long season.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 June 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

you say that, but it's odd to notice that possibly the two biggest scoring sensations (Rooney and Baros) spent a fair amount of time last season injured, and so were relatively fresh when they came into the tournament.

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

See also the performance of teams that had tons of time off and training together prior to the last world cup.

― Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

indeed, weren't the south Koreans spirited away for summat daft like 3 months together? Any International manager in Europe would kill for access to players like that.

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Indeedio.

― Madchen (Madchen), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

well, obviously players like baros that had longish layoffs are fresher, but as an excuse for a whole team, its a bit more iffy? (what about the porto players?)

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

bouyed by playing in their homeland? I dunno to be honest, but I think the layoff thing is involved in the individual players sparkling performances.

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Eng didn't look tired in the 3 group games.

yes, and France and Italy were the finalists in euro 2000.

And Brazil- whose major players play in europe- won the last world cup.

(of course, there was a 24 year gap for Brail- what with not winning the thing from '70 to '94 - and a reason for this was what L is saying above- european clubs taking away time for training together- but their record in the last 3 world cups goes against this)

South Korea- good coach, bad refereeing, trapatonni and home crowd.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

England might do better with more training together but more than anything they need a more offensive strategy. Trying to hold onto one-goal leads as they did against Brazil in 2002, and France and Portugal this summer is obviously a mug's game for them. They haven't got the defense for it. They looked as good as I've seen them with a far forward Rooney holding the ball or otherwise making them think about their defense. Not that I'm recommending more long-ball counters, God knows, but they have to be able to both move the ball up farther and look threatening when they do.

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

England looked knackered at the end of the France game! and not just emotionally. Of course the hanging back and constant closing down exacerbates this - see Young Stevie who ran himself into the ground in both games.

South Korea played well, too, they weren't useless.

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the layoff thing is involved in the individual players sparkling performances.

dont get me wrong, i agree with this. but theres a difference between saying the english team looked tired because they had a slightly longer season than players for other countries (many who play in england), and the english team looked tired compared to people who missed large chunks of the season. one seems to imply a smaller league would be better, the other implies getting a few knocks around midseason would be better!

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

agreed

― chris (chris), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

South Korea were good, but there were other factors that account for their excellent performance at the last world cup too.

Basically Portugal didn't we win that game, it was eng that lost it.

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

And yet...

But for a few really foolish last-minute goof-ups England would have produced a boring victory over France.

I still contend that Campbell's goal should have stood.

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Most of the Russian and Latvian players, and a few Swedes, play in domestic "summer" leagues, so ostensibly those teams would have an advantage, if this fatigue issue is significant. There was some plain bad soccer by the Russians, sure, but like in 2002 it seems like blame-shifting. The simpler explanation-- that inevitably some teams get better and some worse-- looks stronger to me.

It got pretty tiresome hearing the 2002 success of, to pick a team at random, the USA dismissed as a secondary effect of the summer league season (though more than half the US players play in leagues on the "standard" calendar).

Korea maybe did have an advantage from the extent of their pre-world cup training, but their case looks as unique as their status as the host country two years ago.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 28 June 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Still impossible to forget Portugal swinging the ball all the way around the outside of the box to the left.. and then all the way back around again to the right. That was when I knew. By the time they scored, only two or three possessions later, they were staggered like checkers in the box. It looked like they had twice as many players. Maybe that was England's bad defending, not "pushing up." I still can't tell the difference between quality offense/bad defense, and vice-versa.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 28 June 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Me either.

I like Tracer Hand's writing, here.

I think he's right?

― the bellefox, Monday, 28 June 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I think he's right. The checkers analogy is a really good illustration of how Portuguese players could hold possession without doing a lot of breakneck running (i.e. through positions that allowed diagonal passes and a lot of options), because breakneck running hasn't been something Portugal has been interested in. Holding the ball, making England work too hard on defense, meant England was increasingly too tired to counterattack after the first half... Tracer, does that agree with/elaborate on your point?

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 28 June 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Well. Can't comment on the other 3 quarters as I haven't seen em.

Engerland - after the match, was thinking we were robbed by the urs-hole (Geddit!) and that we also didn't deserve it. As soon as Rooney went off, the team didn't believe. Also, putting Vassell on was a the wrong move - two similar strikers. I'd have favoured Emile Heskey over vassell, but pushing Scholes up and putting Hargreaves on might have been better.

Portugal had possession, and not much to show for (see 'every game they have played since 1966'. More worrying for England was the fact that they didn't push back at a very weak (and with more attacking substitutes, getting weaker). It was Brazil all over again - England unable to use the ball intelligently when it really needed it. We did look like we were playing with 10 men at times.

Paul Wilson was good in the Observer (I think it was him) - Scolari knew England had a plan A - hoof it up to the nippy lad - and knew he could deal with it. England had since acquired a plan B - give the ball to young Wayne - which he was worried about. Luckily for them, plan B quickly became redundant.

So why are we out? Urs Maier. Simple as that. But would we have gone further? We might have. Certain players might have been finally able to deliver game changing performances - Beckham crucially. But there's something deeper - our simple inability to retain possession for long periods and not get pressed back - we seem to prefer chasing people to trying to use the ball - I'm really struggling for a reason why players instinctively retreat and hold very deep lines when experience and knowledge will tell them that this is flawed. Did Eriksson tell them to play deep and hoof it up to the quick lads? If so, may I humbly suggest the FA have been shortchanged, as 4M for tactical advice TMFD have been giving away for free is a larf.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

So why are we out? Urs Maier.

I don't want to drag this out but when was the Ashley Cole clearance from behind the line? Was it in normal time (and presumably before the Campbell incident)? I honestly can't remember (and, no, we amazingly weren't shown any replays).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow! Great performance by Greece, but given the players that France have, I can only assume that France have a really dreadful manager.

I know you're stirring here, but this is nonsense. If The Greatest Collection Of Players Of All Time Except That Brazilian Lot Back In 1970 (copyright the entire media pre-tournament) cannot go out and beat Greece than either Greece did brilliantly, or the sainted Zidane, Thuram, Viera, Henry, Pires and friends just did not play well. I refuse to believe that they were all playing as well as they possibly could do and the only reason they went out was poor management. But of course, they're they HAVE to play well! They're French! And some of them play for Arsenal!

I didn't see the game, obviously, but the French people in my office all seem to be blaming the players for being complacent, underachieving, waiting for Zidane to do something brilliant, failing to kill games when on top or hit the target etc. Did anyone other than Zidane and maybe Barthez do anything particularly special in this tournament?

Dave is OTM about England's performance.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Dave, you've forgotten to finish your sentence. "So why are we out? Urs Maier made a spot-on decision to penalise an England player for blatant obstruction, that's why."

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm very, very glad I watched the game in the muddy field (more people watching it there than in the stadium itself, fact fans). It seemed to soften the blow.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh forget it will you. What's done is done.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Wenger was a one off. Liverpool have learnt their lesson and so will spurs.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I forgot to add:

1) Barry you're bitter. The first goal AFC had scored against them at Sandhurst was similar (the ball bounced up higher). I didn't think that a foul, and nor did I think this was. If it any consolation, I still can't see what was wrong with the german goal in golden goal in the semis in Euro96. Maybe if we'd have won, the name Sandor Puhl would be much better known.

2) Mike - I thought Cole's clearance was in ET, so whilst unjust (I assume - not seen it), it was an injustice that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

3) France are out. Who'd a thowit! Overrated maybe?

4) England are full of flaws, but I do think we have an attitude that there are better teams out there against who we should be measured. This tournament has shown that every team has flaws and few make super-duper performances. We do breast beat a bit, when the truth is that like many many other teams, we're capable of being very good, but often don't quite hit the high-notes when we really need to. But is that a national malaise? Is it a symptomatic problem with SGE? Or just on this occasion, those players tasked with hitting high-notes didn't do it?

5) I was worried against Switzerland that England could be done for by a freakish accident. It came 2 games later - the injury was unplanned, no-one's fault, and changed the tournament for us. We weren't as reliant on Rooney then, but by Portugal, he'd become talismanic to the entire team. I think any other player could have suffered an injury and we'd have been cool and professional with it - him going took away a fear factor for the Portuguese and a guy England thought would get them out of trouble when they needed him to.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

One final thing - there have been several instances of teams trying to defend leads instead of going for broke and trying to get clearly ahead - all had failed in this tournament. Portugal Spain, England France, England Portugal and Italy Sweden. probably more. If there's any lesson here it's that the best form of attack is defence (see Czech Rep vs Holland).

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

The Germans did against the Dutch too but that could just be because they're crap

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

oops. Best form of defence is attack. Carry on.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

What on earth am I bitter about? I supported England! I was upset that they lost! But they lost fairly, and anyone who's still blinkered enough to think victory was snatched from them by a bad refereeing decision is either bitter themselves or blind as the proverbial.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do people keep talking about the game against Brazil. "It was Brazil all over again", and things like that. In that game England lost to a much greater opponent, and they lost by one goal. It was a lucky (ok, maybe not lucky, but fair, definitely) game for Engerland, it could have been much worse.

* To be fair, I can see how annoying it has to be to concede that kind of a second goal, but I still think it wasn't that bad.

― Pingu, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

We talk about it because:

- It was where England definitively came up agaionst an opponent who played better, who showed an ability to retain possession with ease, where all players had good control, movement and passing range.
- All this under Big Phil's guidance.

- They also celebrated in Portugese.

- The guy hitting the winning shot had attracted the attention Fergie.

- It was in a quarter-final.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

France were better than England too as were Switzerland for half of that game

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Mike, Dave etc...if you look here, the Ashley Cole clearance was just before Rui Costa's goal - 109 minutes.

I had to go through a few sites to even find reference to it, so it's either being excised from history, or it wasn't as close a thing as I thought when I saw it. However, to not even show a replay once seems a bit, well, odd considering it was (i) Portuguese television pictures and (ii) a reasonable chance even if not as disputed as I thought at first.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how Portugal-Spain fits yr model, Dave. Unless you mean the Spanish were playing for a draw from the off (or they were defending their virtual points-based lead).

Ailsa - yeah, I had to do a bit of digging too. Early in the second period of ET.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Portuguese TV has been terrible with replays. I assume it didn't cross the line bcz it wasn't talked about.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Mike - yep. In this tournament, fortune has favoured the brave - those who have needed to win have done so, those who have tried to hold what they had, or play for the draw haven't been successful.

Ailsa - 109 minutes is after 87 minutes, so England would have been through then, obv Har har.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

This is just a bump, really. Looking forward to the match!

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Come on Czechies!

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Tomorrow night, no?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I want football to be the winner

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Am I only allowed to express desire for one of tonight's teams to win? OK, come on Dutchies, I suppose.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Hollies?

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Pass the Dutchies.

In the semis sweepstake at work, someone wrote 'Grease'

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

But that covers so many of the teams.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you FAPing tonight, G?

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Nein!

I've got to do some ironing.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I've just realised that I'd love this thread to end with exactly 2004 messages.
I need to get out more often, Lord only knows.

― Pingu, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there should be a stick with a nail in it. Anyone who mentions 'art' and 'Deco' in the same sentence should feel it around their chops.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

they should not scrap the silver goal. i am in favour of scrapping penalties and replacing it with 'rock paper scissors' tho.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

did people used to mention 'philosophy' in the same sentence as Socrates (80s Brazilian player)?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"we are aghast that UEFA did not check to see if the scissors were sharp enough. it is unfortunate that Defoe was unable to cut Lehmann's paper because of unexpected bluntness"

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Ailsa - 109 minutes is after 87 minutes, so England would have been through then, obv Har har.

But, as Sol Campbell's goal didn't count therefore the match got as far as 109 minutes, it wouldn't have gone to penalties, so you could have been saved the indignity of overtaking Holland as "worst penalty taking nation EVAH"...(haha, hypothetical arguments galore)

But thanks for the counting and/or number-of-minutes-in-a-football-match lesson.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I've just realised that I'd love this thread to end with exactly 2004 messages.

Pingu reading my mind oh no!!

Anyhoo: T -0:30!!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Tuning in now...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

1-0 Portugal, Ronaldo, second header of the tournament for him

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

And promptly got a yellow for showing his tits.

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

aaarrgh, i missed the first half, i had to follow it via web. it seems it's a good match for a change (the quarters were so boring, apart from england-portugal). i'm running to see the second half!

― joan vich in madrid, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Finally, the moronic replay/logo swipe claims its first victim - and we all miss Portugal's 2nd goal. Bloody amateurs.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahahaha. Mottie makes Vasco da Gama analogy....

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

And Portugal in for the final.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

come on, the czechies!!

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahahaha. Mottie makes Vasco da Gama analogy....

Also the "aptly named Deco as he decorates the midfield" was a Motty classic.

I have decided that Deco looks like David Platt from Coronation Street (as opposed to David Platt from England football team of yore). I may be totally alone in this though, as I am with most of my lookey-likey theories.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

come on, greece!

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread has taken a strange turn ;)

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Did you see Deco trying to get a free-kick in the 93rd minute when he could have been through on goal? That's what I hate about a strain in Portugese football - the kind of cynical shite they were pulling left right and centre against the hoops.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

only 4 minutes added on, after all the time the (admittedly excellent) goalie spent writhing, and the LONG SLOW walks to the touchline for substitutions? i don't like portugal much. i'm up for the czechs tomorrow, they have a much better chance of beating portugal than the greeks would.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

boy deco's grand though, right, boyler?

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the way that my latent Celtic-inspired dislike of Porto mixes with a seething bitterness towards Portugal. It feels right. Come on Czechs, oh land of grebt beer, nice bridges, crazy fast trams and nice churches.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

when deco pulls on the porto shirt he is FAIR GAME, for portugal I get to enjoy him. I feel ok about it.

greece are about to bring it all over CR.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Doesn't your Celtic-inspired dislike of things stretch also to a squad managed by Dick Advocaat and including van Bronckhorst and de Boer as well as the total arsehole that is Pierre van H? Makes choosing a team to support kind of difficult in those circumstances.

(xpost)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I just hope that if/when the czechs go through that Nedved doesn't get another yellow card otherwise he misses the final. That would be horrible (that first yellow was a disgrace and UEFA should have taken it off his record).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Nah - I've always loved Holland cos of JC. Their flirtation with matters Hun was temporary. By the end, I was disappointed DA left as it was all too easy.

Anyway, it went both ways. We got Regi Blinker. Er.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

When the TV people missed the goal, I thought of Mike's many warnings that this would happen.

I made sure to watch the highlights, which showed the goal properly like the glitch had never happened.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I enjoyed the game a lot. I like Holland, but am glad that Portugal won.

I really want the Czechs to win tonight. Do you think they have a chance?

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The two highlights of the match were

(a) Davids leaning on the post
(b) Linekar: "If I had a body like that, I'd take my shirt off"

I would add

but it was ruined, as previously mentioned. Have you also noticed the way they replay something that happened 5 minutes ago?

Come on Czechies!

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course the Czechs have a chance! but who knows how far this Greek team can go now - it's anybody's. Sadly I think Portugal have got the final locked down - it's about time a host nation won the Euro i guess.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought Davids was excellent last night actually - he really was going for it, as if this was his last chance. funny that...

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I enjoyed Ian Wright (!) saying "Look at Davids! He's a little Dreadlock Teapot!".

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I really enjoyed last night's game. Perhaps because I missed the first 20 minutes?

Yes, that 'Wrighty' quote was amusing.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The exchanges between Wright, hansen and linker have been really enjoyable. Beats anything ITV has (I know its not saying much).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Hansen and Lineker, yes.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Who did Ian Wright use to play for, Foxy?

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Schmeichal has been a bit pointless though.

In other news - I read in the Guardian that the Greeks are demanding better bonuses after beating France - in the spirit of all African and Dutch teams who have started arguing for more cash at this stage, it's hard to see their minds being on the game, and so the Czechs will win. It riuled me to see a Guardian writer today say that the tournament made up in excitment what it lacked in the form of a really good team. Hein? They've won 4 out of 4 and got better with each. Dipshit.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

England.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Ricardo put a sterling performance, he wasted at least 6 minutes!

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

'England'

and arsenal, foxy.

jel otm. What play acting!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

U&K: anyone watching tonight's semi-final in London? Anyone fancy a pint (and a pinefox) with it? I might be around and eager for footy fun.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

surely you should be pintfox whenever asking such questions. i don't think i will be able to alas.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Ian Wright also played for Crystal Palace and West Ham. i dislike him for failing to play for a West London club thus completing the set (which footballers HAVE done this?)

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I suspect that the P F might have the same problem with the word 'Arsenal' that some people have with saying 'sorry'.

I too enjoyed last night's match greatly. Good runs from Figo & Ronaldo. It will be fun to watch Robben falling over for Chelsea next season.

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

it won't be fun to see Duff on the bench tho

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Ian Wright also had very brief spells at Burnley and Celtic.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

and Dulwich Hamlet

― chris (chris), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

And I'm sure he scored many goals for whatever clubs he played.

I'd like to go to the pub to watch but not sure right now.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

oi, oi, oi, oi, ai, ai - will this thread get to 2004 posts by tomorrow night, before the ilxordom's official two-week outtage?
ui,ui,ui?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Dry your eyes mate. I know it's hard to see but his mind has been made up. We've got to walk away now - it's over.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

O not before tonight's semi o no?!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

COME ON THE FUCKEN CZECHIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

What is Boyle saying?

Are we not going to watch the game, in a pub?

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I am!!!!!!!!!!!

you should have made plans, PF.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

it's modern persons music PF

― chris (chris), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

(that even this old codger knew)

Name that pub, la belle fox

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

that streets one sounds like the start of MC hammer's 'have you seen her?'

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

you're a modern codger Big Dave.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

RJG - it's I need love for the Chav generation - that's probably why I love it

― chris (chris), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

So what does that make me, Cabbage?

A classic?

How about our new fave the Bull & Mouth.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

(oi juu inglanders änd joor p-p-p-pubs-ah!:)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 1 July 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, we can pretend to be in The Bloomsbury Set.

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Why - are you going to come along, Mooro?

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, so that when I leave I can sing:

Goodbye Bloomsbury Way
I can't see you, I don't need you.
Goodbye Bloomsbury Way
Sure to want me back another day.

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe a classicist PF, maybe not, I don't know

― chris (chris), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll have to send you a text, Mooro.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

????????????????????????????????????????????????????

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

c u l8r

― Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

are these jokes?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

COME ON GREASE!!!!!!

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

hard s

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

!!!

― the bellefox, Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

nutsnutsnuts

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Come on you Bohemians.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Bohemians vs. Hellenes. Hard choice. I'll root for the Greeks so they can beat Portugal twice in the same tourney.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, I like Michael W's way of thinking there but I'd rather the Czechs played the P'gese.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus, I fear for Greichenland this summer what with the Olympic Games and all, so I wan't them to have some fun before the apocalypse.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

omg is the end so nigh wtf??

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 1 July 2004 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

When the TV people missed the goal, I thought of Mike's many warnings that this would happen.

This was also my, exact, thought.

Deco would be good if he wasn't so small. He is very easily knocked off the ball.

After Portugal 1 Greece 2 and Czech Republic 2 Latvia 1, I placed a very small bet on a Portugal - Czechs final. I suppose I stand to win only about ten pounds. But worth saying come on Czechies for.

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Looks like Nedved's out...

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 1 July 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

The Greeks are defending very well, so I feel almost uncharitable for saying this, but I dread the prospect of them in the final. Come on Czechies!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 1 July 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

: (

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 1 July 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Groan.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 1 July 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Greece have won - Silver Goal

However Silver Goal is being scrapped after this tournament, replaced with full 30 minutes xtra time

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 1 July 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

'However'? That will be comforting to the Czechs.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 1 July 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Much as I thought the Czechs would win, I can't help being happy for Greece. Not of them are really footballers, but they've got goals when it counted.

How can anyone not be happy for them?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 1 July 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I hope they win but I doubt the greeks will have much left after this.

Nedved was out, felt really sorry for him but maybe that was a sign.

The coach should have put heinz on, he was the sub of the tournament.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(having said that koller had a virtual open fucking goal, the czechs were stronger towards the end, and he was going to put somebody on)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm happy for my Greek work colleagues and ex-colleagues but, apart from that, nah, not really.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

(...in the second period, which is not going to happen. UEFA are awful and I hate them for messing around with the rules, first offside now this!)

x-post: Czechs played the best footie, greece just ground a result out, first injustice of the tournament but I bet cozen is happy.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

brr.. wibble... baa woo.. bwooaa..thrrpp

flimmm phnaaaa foooo000

― cypriot poster, Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

So let's create a Portugal/Greece rivalry that has lasted for years, so there are involved insults.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

WE'RE IN THE FINAL!

*pause*

WE'RE IN THE FUCKING FINAL!!!!!!!!!!11111111111

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS
HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLASHELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS HELLAS

― cypriot poster, Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

which part of cyprus tho'?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Are Greece "boring"?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

They are the germans adam.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm guessing it's not the Turkish half, Julio.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm. Not as boring as they have been for A HUNDRED YEARS.

― cypriot poster, Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet it isn't, martin.

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I am gutted. I really wanted the Czechs to win, I think as much because I just can't get bothered about a Portugal-Greece final. As usual, what I wanted to happen, didn't. I'm going to decide what i want, and bet against in future. I can't lose, since I can think of about 4 results in tournaments since 1998 where what I've wanted to happen has happened.

And before Ilx shutdown for 2 weeks - Portugal to win on account of Greek tiredness, Portuguese fervour, no Greek element of surprise anymore and I can't help think the Greeks will be thinking 'we've done so much better than we ever expected - this will do' and the Portuguese will want it that little bit more. Added to that, karagounis will miss it - that'll be a problem for the Greeks.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Man I don't want figo to win a fucking title, and bloody 'big phil' and his lucky bullshit. please support portugual dave.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Frankly I don't care how we win. I don't care if we play like a team managed by Howard Wilkinson. I don't care if we have a team of fake Greeks from Macedonia. We've beaten the host, the holders, and the team who played the best football in the tournament. Fuck "boring"
accusations. We're a TEAM. And to indulge in good old Greek-named hubris, we're going to do the Portuguese again!!!

― cypriot poster, Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Good luck Greece!!!!

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

The Portuguese should win. Sexy football, sexy kit, sexy...errrr, manager.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

god, koller was useless

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam, keep those dreams burning, at Greece won in extra time

(xpost)

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh man... any team, any team other than the Czechs to have lost tonight. The Greeks just did it again, this incredible endurance and persistence of theirs - Glengarry Glen Ross, 'Always Be Closing'. And they did. The teamwork in defence just edged out the teamwork in attack, like they've somehow managed to do every single time this tournament. Rehhagel... he's taken reaonably base metals, and turned them into a really big anti-aircraft gun. Like O'Neill did at Leicester - you can take these big star players and what not, but if you can't get 'em playing for each other and with each other, yer nowhere. Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Arjen Robben, David Beckham, Thierry Henry, Francesco Totti, Fernando Torres, Bastien cunting Schweinsteiger - Theo Zagorakis might be winning the European Championship on Sunday. You definitely won't.

You cannot say the Greeks do not deserve this (Unless you say that a team that loses 2-1 to Russia doesn't deserve to be champions of Europe, and you might have a bit of a point there).

What you can say is that... oh god, man, how can you not feel for Pavel Nedved? The Czech Republic, when they are attacking in full flow, are an utterly beautiful sight to see. Nedved, the brains and muscle, running, setting up, starting the move, carrying on the move. Occasionally blasting the free-kick. Thomas Rosicky - what a player! Incredible pace and vision, you wouldn't think he'd be such a hard-worker cos he does look about twelve, but he's always there with the little touches that keep it going, keep it moving, forever hustling. Baros - there've been plenty of strong, quick strikers this tournament, but only one has brought the finishing too. Poborsky - shit at Man U, but what a difference those years have made. Heinz, the supersub. The defenders too, Jankulovski and Grygera were brilliant attacking full-backs. Petr Cech's going to be giving Mourinho quite the selection headache next season. Bolf and Ujfalusi, I'm not so sure about to be honest - one must remember that the Czechs managed only one clean sheet, in the quarter-final. Germany scored against them (will not hear word said against ickle Maris).

But my personal favourite - Jan Koller. Yes, he's quick for a big man. Yes, he's got good feet for a big man. But what impressed me most was his brain, his awareness - he's tall and he knows what to do with it. His understanding with the rest of the Czechs, and especially Baros, was superb throughout - if they needed a header, a chest-down, the little flick, up pops Koller to provide it. The first Baros goal against the Dutch was prime Koller, Nedved whips in the cross, and there's Koller, just chests it to exactly where he knows Milan's gonna be, and there he is to whip it into the roof of the net.

That's why this is gutting - the most talented set of players, the most exciting and inventive attackers - basically, the side that should have won are not going to be in the final, and it fucking breaks my heart. Why did this have to be the semi-final? Why couldn't it have been the Czechs or the Greeks knocking out Cristiano fucking Ronaldo and the truffle-hunters? That Czech team... that Czech team is probably the best team I've ever seen, the team that have come closest to making me realise why I love football. It hurts, y'know?

But still - if there was one team I could've picked to be in the final other than them... actually no, it would've been Latvia. But if there was another team, then it would definitely have been the Greeks. And I really, really hope Otto's Army capture the flag on Sunday.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a really fantastic post, William - and I agree with virtually all of it, too.

I really don't mind the Greeks being there, though. I was pulling for the Czechs, but the way the Greeks have made a really strong team out of unpromising-looking materials is very impressive, and I think deserves some real support and praise.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 1 July 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm really, really sad tonight. In mourning, in fact. The Greeks are a tremendous defensive unit, but the Czechs paid for Nedved's injury and not using Heinz early enough in my opinion. The final isn't nearly as exciting a prospect as it should be.

xpost - WBS I salute you. Summed up perfectly.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Thursday, 1 July 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

haha czech republic. not good enough.

believe.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 1 July 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

outstanding. I can't believe it. beyond happy. I don't like the CR cs maybe I'm a contrary (born left-back) defending-headed football player / watcher.

'I don't think they're good enough to win it.' (p. schmeichel) - um.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 1 July 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

That is a point - have there been any positives on the broadcasting front? Cos I can't honestly see any except for Ned Boulting and Ian Wright (every now and then).

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 1 July 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

nikopolidis, setaridis, karagounis (they'll miss HIM in the final), katsouranis, charisteas. I think greece are a good football team; compact, do what they're told ('when I arrived everyone did what they want, now they do what I want' - rehhagel), religious. they remind me a bit, watching the game now, of seeing sevilla earlier this season against celtic. tight passing, good touches, worked 'flair', dismissable, winners. I'm not sure how much this claim of 'good defenders' holds, a good defending team is one that doesn't allow chances against it. sometimes claims of 'good defending' should really be 'bad attacking'. but as I say I'm not sure how this works with greece. I have such a bad memory.

― cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 2 July 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

great words William tho i think you do over-rate the Czech team a little! they ARE fantastic to watch tho, it's true, and i think they have given me more pleasure in this tournament than any other team including England (ecstasy countered perfectly by agony).

this Greek team now strikes me as incredibly Germanic. clean sheets, one goal margins. joy. not.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 July 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

it's almost over :(

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 July 2004 09:25 (twenty-one years ago)

How many posts so far?

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 2 July 2004 09:29 (twenty-one years ago)

B-but, Cozen, you said CZE-HOL was the best game you'd ever seen! But it wasn't a cynical 0-0!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 2 July 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

disappointed.

lots of big greeks, thumping tables and singing shit, greek songs, in our ears, all night. I didn't dare turn around. I can't help but feel they affected the result.

a really crap loss but an even crapper victory.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 2 July 2004 09:56 (twenty-one years ago)

no thread for the Copa America :o( which I am looking forward too way way more than the final of this fella

― chris (chris), Friday, 2 July 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i was sad that the greek won the czechs. their strategy is to kill the beauty and joy of football, bore everyone to death and then score a single goal. no way you can enjoy this unless you're greek (and i personally hate the nationalistic side to footie supporting).
the czechs could have made it in the first few minutes of the match, when they took the greek by surprise and had a few amazing shots, but they didn't take advantage of their occasions and missed the bus to the final. a pity.
i hope portugal will score early on sunday, so the greek have to move their asses and we can see a good match. i don't mind who wins, i just want to see a good match!

― joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 2 July 2004 10:33 (twenty-one years ago)

My Big Fat Greek Penalty-Shootout

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 July 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

My big fat greek hangover or, b-b-but they'll never finish all the work for the olympics now!

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 2 July 2004 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

By satan's foreskin, the Copa America!

Quick start a thread. An Inca vs Aztec final awaits.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 2 July 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

I am saddened that the ILX shutdown prevented this thread from reaching its plucky Hellenic climax, and robbed me of me of the glory of starting the longest thread ever. Curses.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 19 July 2004 09:47 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.