Red Dwarf: Sucks or Rules?

I don't understand why people bag on Red Dwarf so much. Taken purely a a sitcom, it's still incredibly funny, and vastly innovative and original.

sorry folx

and i repeat: CAT = GENIUS (for the 1st 2 seasons, anyway).

Was Season 5 the one with The Inquisitor? That was beyond great.

I gave up on season seven about halfway through. Not necessarily bad, just... weird. In a bad way.

The film looks dead in the water.

My abiding memory is DUD but I'm judging on the later, bad stuff.

Even having had Carcass on it can't redeem it.

Just a big dud.

I used to watch the first and second seasons while staying up late in high school--they showed it on PBS, and I thought it was pretty funny even though I probably missed a lot of Brit cultural references. Haven't seen enough of the later ones to compare.

Also, SMEG.

Red Dwarf novels - c/d?

Rules _
_/ \___
\
\
\__
Sucks

Overall: Rules.

Best Line: Yes, but Rimmer Directive 217 states just as clearly, "No chance you metal bastard."

classic, for the most part.

or to put it another way:

DWAYNE DIBLEY!
funny the first time.

me too!

what the fuck happened to Red Dwarf? I actually think I loved 1-6 but from 7 on (what series are we on now? 8? i've missed pretty much every single one of the series just gone), omg wtf!

is it just the same as before? but the expensive cameras put me off? everything is so clean and tidy! part of what made it good was that red dwarf and starbug were supposed to be space vehicles, but they were just complete and utter dumps! i watch the new series now and the place looks like a vision express store.

is it just not as funny as before? the new kochanski is really pretty but she doesn't really fit in as a proper character. Is it just me who's changed? Maybe this is not the time anymore for sci-fi comedy. but i still watch the old episodes now and laugh.

Holly: Good morning, Dave. It is now safe for you to emerge from stasis.
Lister: Haven't I just gone in?
Holly: Please proceed to the Drive Room for debriefing.
Lister: Where is everybody, Hol?
Holly: They're dead, Dave.
Lister: Who is?
Holly: Everybody, Dave.
Lister: What, Captain Hollister?
Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: What, Todhunter?
Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: What, Selby?
Holly: They're all dead. Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: Petersen isn't, is he?
Holly: Everybody is dead, Dave.
Lister: Not Chen?
Holly: Gordon Bennett! Yes! Chen, everybody. Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: Rimmer?
Holly: He's dead, Dave. Everybody's dead. Everybody is dead, Dave!
Lister: Wait. Are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?

You can't imagine the disappointment I felt when they first aired Season 3, I did grow to like the new style, but it just wasn't the same show.

The newest ones I've caught glimses of were so dud it hurt.

Agreed, apart from the excellent "You monkeys eat off the floor?" line in the first episode. A character whose only notable characteristic is being two-dimensional doesn't give you a lot of comedy mileage.

What was the awful sitcom Chris Barrie did where he was an obnoxious ex-pro footballer? Made The Brittas Empire seem almost cerebral.

http://www.chris-barrie-fans-site.co.uk/prince/gprince.jpg

That's the chap. Bloody awful, though not quite as bad as some of the stuff they're resurrecting on the sitcom thread.

Danny John-Jules threatens binman with a knife.

Should have revived a "Maid Marion and her Merry Men" thread.

FREE THE CAT!

Or don't.

I agree with a lot of the posters that Red Dwarf ruled up to a point, then sucked pretty hard. I can't exactly pinpont when it was, because I don't really remember. Definitely when Kochanski came back.

He was good in the Polo adverts.

The binman was trying to steal his rubbish, apparently. Planned to throw it in his lorry and drive off.

it was better than hyperdrive (probably).

A lot better. The banter between the four main guys was brilliant in the middle serieses. Then they started getting more into the sf than the lolz and it went sad.

The first two series are excellent, with a really nice dynamic between the characters and some interesting plots. After that it got pretty lazy, though there was always a few nice ideas to stop it completely sucking. The basic concept is pretty great, and it got really bad when they started messing with it.

When it was at the height of its popularity I was in my mid teens, so of course I thought it totally ruled at the time.

There was some late night channel four talk show a few years back, where they basically just got a load of people in their late teens to sit around talking about "issues" of the day.

One week the topic was "fandom" and a nerdy girl was going on about Red Dwarf. Then this rather serious looking black kid says to her "I thought that cat character was a bit racist, actually." She went bright red and was like "Well, ummm, uh... it's not meant to be taken, uh... seriously, I errr..."

lol

Racist against cats?

New Christmas special?

WAHT

This can only be proportionately worse than the Blackadder reunion special.

It would be very nice if this turned out to be any good, but it's probably going to be shite. But not as shite as a re-imagining of Blake's 7...

"Your friend Andrew is a spanner"

any episode with ace rimmer in was okay

Even series 8?

didn't actually see that one, was he even in it?

the humor is waaay too british for me
sorry folx

-- andrew l. r. (allocryptic), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:26 (4 years ago) Link

The UK accepts your apology, andrew l. r. (allocryptic)

Duane Dibley was, so yeah, probably. I've only ever seen bits of series eight by accident.

xp lol at what is probably some American who felt the need to voice some patronising imperial opinion.

Been watching a bit of RD recently thanks to Dave, some of the jokes are unbelievably cheesy, but it has a lot of charm and some pretty good stories. The first two series are the best.

i still haven't seen series 7 and later ... i've heard bad things about those episodes. are they really worthwhile?!?

also, i concur that the first two seasons were the best, b/c they played the whole "the last man alive and alone in space 3 million years in the future" schtick to the hilt. and certain episodes were easily some of the most brilliant things i'd ever seen on TV -- esp. "better than life," and the deft way that episode goes from comedy to tragedy and back to farce.

seasons 3-6 had their charms, too, and occasional brilliance -- but it became too sci-fi and less about the desolation of the characters.

also, i think that this show is begging for a poll ...

Since one of the later seasons put the phrase "jet powered rocket pants" into my brain, later RD gets a notch in the C column.

also, i concur that the first two seasons were the best, b/c they played the whole "the last man alive and alone in space 3 million years in the future" schtick to the hilt. and certain episodes were easily some of the most brilliant things i'd ever seen on TV -- esp. "better than life," and the deft way that episode goes from comedy to tragedy and back to farce.

OTM!

My faves aunt got me & the sibs into this when I was ten. We'd just chill at her house and watch Red Dwarf. We missed out on the innuendo of course ("unto the pure all things are pure"), but it was still a good, funny show. I liked Rimmer the best – having a letter H on your head as a costume is kind of fucking fantastic. Fave episode was the one where it was just a planet of hundreds of Rimmers.

She's one of those people that is just into any TV show that is Britishes. Doesn't matter what. She implored me, at my wedding, to watch Black Books. Is this show any good?

I'd thoroughly recommend Black Books. Father Ted is even better, though.

She implored me, at my wedding, to watch Black Books. Is this show any good?

-- Abbott, Monday, 1 September 2008 21:33 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

First series is good in place, second and third series are some bullshit.

I agree with Chap. While I think the first season of BB was def the best I really like all of it tbh.

Yeah, I really don't see that dramatic a drop in quality at all. The third series is the weakest by a small margin.

watch Black Books

Fuck, yes. Third series is slightly weaker, but the very last episode is my favourite.

I can't remember what happens in the last one - argh!

The first episode of s2, with Manny hiding in the piano, is fucking excellent. I might stream it now.

Fave episode was the one where it was just a planet of hundreds of Rimmers.

Rimmer-world was last week...

"You total total total total total total" (static cuts off transmission from Rimmer's escape pod)

(xxpost) it's the one where they go to the party (Bernard: "Don't you dare use the word party as a verb in this shop!")

I am glad I can still trust my aunt's taste.

She was the only extended rel-rel what genuinely complimented me on my tat, as well. <3ing her.

I tried watching "Smoking Room" (I think it is called?) and damn that shit is boring.

Watch Peep Show instead.

Watching Brass Eye instead. I give Peep Show a B-.

Smoking Room is orright.

I actually like that Red Dwarf moved on when it ran out of ideas. Two seasons about desolation was probably just right. Where it went wrong was Doug Naylor opting to press on alone, or with Llewellyn and other people as co-writers. And turning Rimmer back into a human, and bringing back all the dodgy one-off comedy characters every five seconds Little Britain-style.

http://twitter.com/bobbyllew/status/1106804217

wau

Any chance of a new series of Oh Doctor Beeching? Or 2.4 Children reunite with a poignant longshot of a photo of fallen soldier Gary Olsen?

i'm saddened that robert llewellyn never made it over here, a la hugh laurie ... even though his "canadian" accent isn't as good as laurie's american accent.

oh that's harsh, considering how bad Laurie's American accent is

there was some terrible new bbc sitcom on the other night which I'm pretty sure is using the same set as the living room from 2.4 children.

'recorded 2 eps, not seen scripts yet'

awesome, new dwarf.

p.s guys, ian's friend andrew in the first post is me.

i'm sorry that red dwarf sucks so bad.

xoxo

as i said before, the first 2 seasons are like sartre's "no exit" in space.

Crew scoring zings off each other = Rules

Tedious bollocks with plots and ongoing storylines = Sucks

stoked for the brittas empire re-up too.

thats being shown on uk tv gold weekdays

Son Of A Prince Among Men

Captain Butler and the Fall of Hispaniola

Really, just a reality TV show of Craig Charles doing crack/drinking 40 vodka and oranges a day/hiring a prostitute/selling drugs/being arrested twice on rape charges would be entertainment enough.

Or Danny John Jules pulling a samurai sword on two binmen

Seriously, this is some Diff'rent Strokes level of post-sitcom enterprise right here.

elmo I'm sorry I called you a spanner.

spanners was lister in the alternate reality ;)

OFFICIAL

been rewatching bits and pieces of this lately. hate the last couple of series. much preferred kochanski when it was clare grogan

Two new episodes at Easter, then a one-off without special effects or something. All for Dave.

Yep! Return to Earth

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7851989.stm

And it's a crossover with Coronation Street.

"much preferred kochanski when it was clare grogan"

I saw during a PBS pledge-a-thon Craig Charles & Robt Llewellyn did impromptu acapella Altered Images "Happy Birthday" and Craig Charles also busted out some Pulp. (I think it was disco 2000).

Why is it not on youtube?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/entertainment_enl_1234524090/img/1.jpg

O FUC

Holograms age!?

looks like they put the droid rot read on Kryten ... o_O

They are determined to make this complete shit, aren't they?

i think i would liked this if they're like 45-50 on the show.

There was a time when I'd have been stoked for a new series of this but that time has gone. I'll probably still end up watching it at some point all the same.

I expect it to be crap, but im still excited for new red dwarf. I live in hope etc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7989385.stm

Newsreader: "So, er... there we are, the popular comedy series, er... Red Dwarf, returns to your screens for your televisual amusement..."

That was awkward, but also funny. But also probably funnier than the new episodes are going to be, regrettably.

this new stuff looks like it's going to make the Brittas Empire look like Curb Your Enthusiasm.

I was a big fan of the novelizations when I was a kid- I was an early Douglas Adams addict, and tried everything anyone said was at all like him, from the Red Dwarf books (fairly agreeable, haven't read them in ages though) to Spider Robinson (did nothing for me). Right now I'm watching the actual show for the first time on Netflix. I'm halfway through season two, and I'm struck by just how dark it is, at least when it remembers to be. Bits of it feel awfully smug, and use of the word "smeg" is not a substitute for actual jokes in some of the weaker stretches, but overall a lot more fun than I expected. Rimmer feels very much like a proto-David Brent, in a way; he's awful and deserves everything he gets, but you can't help but feel sorry for the poor fucker, especially in the Better Than Life episode.

i had no idea they did a miniseries last year, the descriptions of it sound awful.

It was awful. Despite that, according to various cast members on twitter, there's likely going to be a new series in 2011.

it was beyond awful.

Yup, a total blemish. Red Dwarf at it's best was so classic

It wasnt awful at all.

In the early days, when the budget didn't allow for aliens and action sequences, it had a genuinely claustrophobic atmosphere which was quite unique. Lots of the laughs fall flat now, but a lot of the stories are still clever and interesting.

Also Lister was a great everyman protagonist.

was quite existential and melancholic at times wrt dealing with Lister as being alone in the universe, quite probably the last member of the human race, millions of miles away from earth, stuck with Rimmer etc.

It wasnt awful at all.

get to fuck. it was atrocious. The bit with Lister greeting reading the Jane Austen book to Cochanski's grave was a nadir, not only for Red Dwarf, but for television in general.

I'm still enjoying myself but I don't entirely get the Cat love. Surely you people meant Holly?

The Cat comes into his own in the later series. Early on he's just a dude who behaves like a cat then later they must've realized how limiting that was and he gets a lot more to do and lots of funny lines.

I just watched all of series 5. I think they meet themselves, swap bodies or are replicated in some bizarre way in every single episode of this series. Dwayne Dibbly, King of the Potato People, Ace Rimmer etc. F'ng classic!

Series 6 was the start of the decline. The characters all suddenly became really unlikeable.

Like Lister lost his bargain-bin street philosopher aspect and just became this crass idiot.

I wish they had gone for the self-contained five series arc like they had seemed to have planned by the end of series two, though their habit of never paying off cliffhangers is always hilarious.

I just made it to series 7, and I'm really not sure if I'm watching the same show as everybody else- Lister seems perfectly likeable, they dialed down Rimmer's total fuckheadedness to a more realistic level, as of season 6 the Cat gets much better material, and the JFK episode might be my favorite one yet. It's not as focused as the early episodes, but it's doing the whole time-travel spacetrotting thing far better than series 6 did.

And as of about halfway into episode 2 ("Stoke Me a Clipper") it has struck me that Jack Harkness is basically Ace Rimmer played straight, isn't he?

I mainly remember finding the slickness very jarring after the grimy aesthetic of the previous series. Very off-putting, it felt like it wasn't my sitcom I'd been watching since I was eleven any more.

There were limited lolz and some OK ideas in the recent revive, iirc, but I think it was basically rubbish and funny through cosy nostalgia rather than actually being funny of itself. I do remember the first part being so bad I didn't want to carry on, but I did and it got a bit better, but nowhere near the heights of the earlier series/the books. The fact I can't remember very much of it other than some meta-Coronation Street bollocks and some vague notion that it revolved around wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey stuff about them being in a video game/film/comic book or something suggests it wasn't even as good as I think I tried to give it credit for at the time.

Replacement Kochanski was irredeemably awful though, and having her as a full-time character was a dreadful mistake.

somehow i'm enjoying this RD marathon on Dave lately, enjoyed series 7 last week and am laughing through series 6 now. Don't remember it being this good.

The new starts in a few weeks iirc

PROMETHEUS reminded me of RED DWARF

the comeback series has been pretty terrible so far

its not been too bad but not as good as the comeback specials

Haven't watched the new ones, but a few of my FB friends seem to like it.

Im enjoying having it back but just dont expect it to be as good as it used to be. But I am glad its back and I hope they make more.

I miss holly though

Chris Barrie looks haggard as fuck in the trailers, think I would find that a bit distracting. Craig Charles hasn't aged much on the other hand.

Cat looks the best though obviously Kryten's mask hasn't aged at all.

"Craig Charles hasn't aged much on the other hand"

ahahahaaha.

I don't think I've seen the last 4 series of the show, but the new one I saw didn't seem that much worse than I remembered it being when I stopped watching. It was all about the first two series for me anyway, it seemed to lose a lot of its balance when they retooled it.

series 2 - 5 or 6 is the golden era

Kryten's mask is fucked up btw, his nose looks v. wrong on the trailers

5 & 6 are probably the funniest. but the1st 2 are ace. but hey, i like them all.

I thought the first one was much better than I was expecting after that horrible 3-episode comeback thing a few years back, but the ones since haven't been too good. Maybe they're all exactly as bad as each other and it's just that the first one raised my expectations to somewhere marginally above the bottom of the barrel.

series 2-5=best otm, stopped watching partway through 7, saw the first one of 8 and couldn't be bothered, don't even know if 9 was said 3-episode thing or an actual series.

i'm pretty much always against reboots, but given the decline in the series, what do you guys think of a possible red dwarf reboot?

hopefully no russell brand as cat though.

I just scanned the thread and didn't see this mentioned, but in the early 90s there was an attempt to do an American version. Only a pilot was made, with the cast including Craig Bierko as Lister, a pre-Fraiser Jane Leeves as Holly, Robert Llewellyn again as Kryten, and Chris Eigeman as Rimmer.

It's up on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uTqA9jWWE

Haven't watched it yet myself, but legend has it that it reeks.

... why would that even happen

a reboot with djp as lister and jjj as rimmer

Haven't watched it myself yet either (thanks for the link) but I seem to recall much self-congratulatory Brit hilarity that the American TV co thought they'd buy Red Dwarf, but thought Lister as greasy no-good space-bum was insufficiently heroic, and Rimmer being dead was too depressing

...ok, Rimmer is still dead, and the video quality suggests the VHS has been at the bottom of a swimming pool on top of some large magnets for some years, but still, thanks!

i'm pretty much always against reboots, but given the decline in the series, what do you guys think of a possible red dwarf reboot?

― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 25 October 2012 06:20 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dunno about a complete reboot, but they could stave off some of the musty smell by making it feel rather less like a '90s production

It's on Dave they wont have a big budget.

back to earth was made on the smell of beans and it looked heaps better than this. i'm sure they could manage some 21st century polish.

lister + holly (with awesome texas accent)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKFjOzS-Rco

It was all about the first two series for me anyway, it seemed to lose a lot of its balance when they retooled it.

Yeah, the first two series were the best, when it driven by the characters rather than the SF concepts (not that some of the SF concepts weren't good).

xpost - I used to like Lexx! Never realised they appeared in it.

series 3 was amazing imo, polished and bristling with ideas

It was the best of the later ones, Timeslides with Caracass, I think Marooned was probably one of the stronger ones, it had more of a feel of the first series. But there was something missing for me.

it wasn't as joke-joke-joke, certainly

i liked waxworld whatever season that was. winnie the pooh refusing blindfold.

I caught Waxworld on Dave the other day and laughed a lot.

"Is there a certain rope motif?"
"Yeah, it does have a kind of noosey theme."

Queeg is awesome

but you cant beat the one where they think they've been playing a video game called Red Dwarf. DWAYNE DIBLEY!!

quarantine

Mr Fibble!

classic

Feeling like I'm having a conversation in a metal club c 1994 (no bad thing).

There's a brand new episode of The Comic Strip] coming to UK Gold. Its a famous five one with all the original cast. Peter Richardson looks really old!

can't wait for that tbh

Looking forward to it myself. Sadly Uncle Quentin wont be in it (unless they get a new actor to play him)

so is these new episodes any good?!?

Can't comment there, but one bit of ephemera unmentioned upthread worth tracking down is the audio book Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers read by Chris Barrie, who does astonishingly good impressions of the other cast members.

Dave is showing the first three episodes again tonight, in case anyone missed them (like I did)

(of the new season I mean)

I totally missed this, so cheers for the heads up. I am fully expecting it to be awful, so anything better than that will be a pleasant surprise.

Not seen the last ep yet but the series has been ok. I dont think anybody expects it to be as good as it was but it was great having it back.

I've seen four or five of them - amazingly, they really feel like circa series 4 or 5 episodes

if by "circa series 4 or 5 episodes" you mean "they feel 20 years out of date" then yes

I thought s7 might have improved with age

no

there are entire episodes in which nothing happens

RIP Rob Grant

there are entire episodes in which nothing happens

The episodes in the first three series where essentially nothing happens are among the best of the entire run. S7 isn't great but... it's better than S8.

even as a kid i remember loving how desolate the show was, how nothing happened, how they were all stuck there seemingly forever. there was something weirdly comforting about it.

been rewatching these from the start, season 1-4 almost always excellent. lots of dated cultural references ("breville" rather than a toasty feels pretty dated, berni inns) but overall the strong writing and characterisation carries it and almost every episode still very funny.

yeah 1-6 are all great TV. 8 is one of the worst things I've ever seen but of course Rob wasn't involved by then.

yeah I watched/rewatched the whole thing (apart from The Promised Land, haven't done that one yet) last year and jfc 8 is terrible. I watched 7 when it came out and hated it then and still don't like it much but maybe because it's not as bad as 8 it seemed a little better this time round

Yeah 8 was unbearable at the time, don't think I've ever watched it all and I've got a box set

Are the ones after 8 any good?

Tempted to try and get my 11yo to watch, as it might appeal to her love of grody sitcoms (friday night dinner, etc) with added sci-fi ish, tho absence of female characters will be a deal-breaker

The bad seasons came out at the same time I started growing out of (or becoming overly self-conscious about) geeky teenage things, so the experience of watching them was doubly excruciating – I thought, had it always been this terrible and I’d just been too childish to notice?

I mean, like a lot of the UK alternative comedy of the 80s/90s, it was incredibly juvenile, but - I dunno - that tone feels sort of charming and innocent in retrospect?

I actually watched a few episodes recently as I thought Doug Naylor came across very well on a podcast. They were fun! Every season from 1-5 has good bits. 6 is tired but has the lightbulb gag. The rest are bad. Haven't seen the revival, except for one time travel episode I can't remember the name of, that was really rather good, but I haven't felt like watching more.

In my head I think "Oh it was nice when a sci-fi show could have two black leads and no one whined about it" but I wonder if that's right

I remember when Rick & Morty started thinking that Red Dwarf was also fairly adept at slipping quite hardcore sci-fi concepts re: time travel and alternate dimensions, etc, into an accessible sitcome format, though I'm by no means an expert in hardcore sci-fi concepts.

Never agreed with the post-S6 hate myself, I like all seasons including 8. Can't imagine fans of the 'classic' run not enjoying the last two series (XI-XII) either as they really aren't doing anything much different from S3-S6 - loved the idea of Kryten's midlife crisis along with many other bits.

I think S6 is one of the best, and S7 has a couple of great episodes and most of the rest is eh fine bit bloated but not terrible, but S8 was so bad it put me off it for good, that two-parter about the badly animated dinosaur was the nadir, and that Dave special (S9?) wasn't much better. Have heard the series since have been better but never got around to checking them out.

of the later ones I enjoyed 'Trojan' most but it's nothing on the original six series
agree a couple of episodes from s7 are up there too

S8, the one where they are jailed? It's alright come one, what's the deal?

The film effect is anathema to comedy, the basic dynamic of four nobs ripping the pins out of each other has gone, I want the SF element to be flavour sauce not the entire motor of the show's existence

There is an absolute dearth of funny lines, I'm not gonna over analyse the badness

yes, and it's not even good sci-fi, it's got the production quality of a CITV show

I think a lot of it is because it just doesn't have the vibe of the show. it seems like a different type of sitcom. the Captain character doesn't work. why did they drag that dinosaur story over 2 episodes, 1 was bad enough. the Cassandra one was ok I guess

I've been going through this, having only seen seasons 1-3 in Portugal and a VHS of some season 7 eps I bought on a trip to the UK.

Much of the first three seasons is stuck in my brain, and while we're not talking masterpieces here I retain quite a lot of affection, introduced me to a lot of cool sci fi concepts.

The move from Red Dwarf to Starbug is a real jump the shark moment though I can kinda see why they would have thought it a good idea: a smaller vessel with vanishing rations ups the ante in terms of despair (as well as making frequent descents to planets more intuitive). But it also removes part of the charm: being alone on this gigantic, deserted ship both adds to the melancholy but also provides a certain charm that the Starbug lacks - horrible as their predicament is there is also a certain "staying overnight at a closed mall" aspect, you can tell they derive some pleasure from treating this formerly regimented place as a playground.

What's also very apparent is that they have no care at all for consistency or continuity in their sci fi conceits: Rimmer's hologram status is very confusing, he gets drunk but complains he can't have food, people walk through him yet he's constantly afraid of things that can't hurt him. To be clear I don't think this is a weakness at all in the early comedic seasons, "whatever works best for the joke" is a good comedic approach to world building, but as it becomes more straightforward sci fi I do feel it will become more apparent that they're not actually good at establishing their own rules.

Also notable: SO MANY classic hollywood references! I wonder how much of that is the authors putting in stuff they dug w/o much care for audience and how much is that those films were still playing on UK tv and as such more present in the culture.

iirc they moved to starbug because they broke the model for red dwarf

lol seriously? could've used some of that ugly CGI budget to have it rebuilt.

ha true, I'm not sure just remember reading that somewhere

I agree that the series loses something when it shifts from Red Dwarf to Starbug, the earlier series kind of work as a meta take on the cliche about how every sitcom can be boiled down to 'two people who don't get on stuck in a room together', only they're not stuck in a room they're stuck in this gigantic ship in an even more gigantic void and they're the only two people who exist anymore. It actually ends up feeling less claustrophobic during the Starbug era.

(I love the opening of the early series with the zoom out from the tiny figure painting the ship with the funereal trumpet - I've never seen this mentioned, but the music must be inspired by the opening of Mahler's 5th symphony, right?)

(To be honest, I think it loses something when Kryten joins as a regular cast member and it becomes more of an ensemble piece instead of being about Lister and Rimmer specifically, but maybe they'd gone as far as they could with that)

I love the opening of the early series with the zoom out from the tiny figure painting the ship with the funereal trumpet - I've never seen this mentioned, but the music must be inspired by the opening of Mahler's 5th symphony, right?)

Yup, entirely otm. It's a striking intro that shows you can make cheap stuff look really impressive. Guitar led theme far too jolly (in the ending version there's the sad lyrics to counteract).

(To be honest, I think it loses something when Kryten joins as a regular cast member and it becomes more of an ensemble piece instead of being about Lister and Rimmer specifically, but maybe they'd gone as far as they could with that)

The fun thing was that prior to Kryten it really was a trio with no loyalties - the Cat is pleasant and gregarious but also very upfront that he would sell Lister and Rimmer out at the drop of a dime.

Kryten also has some pretty troubling swish gay stereotype elements - I'd guess mostly this is just down to the C3PO influence, but it gets quite uncomfortable when Kochanski shows up and he reacts like a spurned lover. I guess they kinda had to do it to have someone play the "dude worried a woman will ruin his bromamce" - it would be out of character for the Cat (tho my cats can be quite jealous and needy now I think of it!), Rimmer would've been much funnier but he wasn't there anymore.

That being said I don't hate Kochanski as a character, why because she looks interesting , and I'm happy that after a rough start they've started giving her some negative traits so she isn't just the grown up woman moaning at the manchild husband that so many sitcom women end up as (tho still a bit too close for comfort!).

On a different note, this show is very obsessed with Herman Goering wearing female underwear. I've counted three references, which is not that much, but some shows never mention it at all!

we're up to season 7 now; i was surprised that almost all of Season 5 stills stands up really well - Quarantine and Back To Reality both really good concepts... last classic season.
Season 6 feels like they're replaying some greatest hits/concepts from older episodes; still some good bits in there but its running on automatic and the fan service feels lazy.

Season 7 feels really off from the start even with the fairly good concept for Tikka To Ride; the jokes are falling flat and they're relying on greatest hits jokes (do you know Lister likes curry). The laugh track also sounds weirdly loud, almost as if its pumped up out of a lack of confidence? Stoke Me A Clipper is a genuinely bad episode. curious to see how the Kochanski episodes will be now but not holding much hope; as a dumb 13 year old watching these on first run, I think i blamed the show losing it on Chloe Annett having bad comedic chops/spoiling the crew dynamic - but i'm thinking it more likely she was unlucky enough to join at the worst possible time. we'll see!

Also not her fault for not being Clare Grogan, I guess

As far as the dud aspects go they're surely less on her and more on the writers not knowing what to do with a female character.

as a dumb 13 year old watching these on first run, I think i blamed the show losing it on Chloe Annett having bad comedic chops/spoiling the crew dynamic - but i'm thinking it more likely she was unlucky enough to join at the worst possible time. we'll see!

One of my favourite podcasts is Sonic The Comic The Podcast, about the 90's uk comic. One of the hosts was in the fandom as a teenager and now recalls with a lot of guilt and sadness how he went along with the general fandom stance that blamed editor Deborah Tate for its decline, as he now knows it was probably inevitable and the result of many factors; if anything Tate struggled valiantly to keep the lights on. I don't think it was just you, my understanding is the RD fandom hated Annett, and it's down to the same thing imo - an easy scapegoat for a bunch of problems. And surprise surprise, in geeky circles these often end up being women.

this made me go back and rewatch the first episode yesterday and what a great little episode it is.

I remember an early BBC2 show continuity announcement that went along the lines of “For fans of other shows about a grown man being harassed by hologram, why not try Quantum Leap”

lol

still gotta check out that ep where he leaps into a monkey

Season seven is a step down, yes, but season eight - oooof.

The narrative these days is "this started as a sitcom and turned into a sci-fi action show" but that's not really it; as NV mentions in earlier posts itt, it doesn't know which one it wants to be. There's tons of comedy in s8, it's just it's pretty uniformly terrible, autopilot stuff.

Of course there's plenty in the show in general that now feels regressive but in the episode I just saw the Cat fantasizes a mate (who of course also has to be black), and then is disgusted to find the real life equivalent is a Jamaican auntie, a pretty bizarrely specific punching down. You get a prison rape joke too for good measure.

It does do the it's-all-in-the-mind stop motion animation thing before Community. Not as well, obviously, but it does do that.