There's no applicable reason to ask this. Just curious. Well?
― Lee G (Lee G), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)
― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)
I think there's a problem in that the view you're being "hit on" instantly makes any interest that the Hitter has in you is purely sexual and therefore would be completely uninterested in you if it weren't for sex.
crosspost
yeah, beanz - someone being sleazy is just someone you don't find attractive finding you attractive (simplification!)
― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)
I guess I'm thinking of something a little more innocuous, more polite. I think of the above as more "coming on," which may need another thread.
― Lee G (Lee G), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)
― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)
― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)
― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)
― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)
Jesus, no wonder we have to post to dodgy message boards to stay sane.
Oh and Porkpie, I wasn't being ironic. I think it would be a Good Thing.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)
My aren't you elegant today! And ravishing! Would you care to fellate me?
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)
― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)
Four fingers or five?
― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― david acid (gareth), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)
― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)
― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)
first guy comes up and says 'you look sad. are you ok?' and i was nice enough, but he wouldn't go away, and so finally i said 'look, i'd like to be alone, sorry to be rude, but can i just have a minute?' and he looked mad but left. this happened 3 times, each time my temper was shortening until the 4th guy, when i said 'look. i'm not here to talk to you. please leave.' and then he shouted at me and then followed me around the club for a long time. boo.
so, yeah, it was quite unpleasant, really. and pissed me off that they assumed that because i was a girl sitting by myself, i clearly was hot for their bods. grr.
― colette (a2lette), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)
I think beanz nailed it in his first post - 'hit on' is just, for many people, the negative term for something that's positive if it's the right person.
Personally, I think of it as more neutral than that. As long as the person doesn't become a pain, I am happy to be hit on, whether or not I want to take things any further.
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)
― na (Nick A.), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)
I really need a volunteer to practice being hit on, so I can figure out the right way and the wrong way to hit on boys. Because I invariably frighten off every boy I've ever hit on. (Except maybe Joe, but he was weird.) Not to actually try to get them to sleep with me, but to tell me what I do right/wrong.
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)
"are you trying to say i'm fat?????"
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)
Is it not possible to hit on someone with a view to them maybe being a girlfriend, rather than just a shag?
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)
Partly because, like Colette, there are times when I just want to sit and think about Welsh Canadians.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)
I don't necessarily see it that way. The way I see it, one person hits on another and it either gets reciprocated or not. Either way, it still started with a hit.
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)
It's a great fantasy, but you know, if a guy ever actually *did* hit on me on the bus, I'd smack him with all 700 pages of Ackroyd's London The Biography.
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)
xpost to Alba.
I'm not opposed to flirting, it's just that it can be really uncomfortable if taken seriously.
― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)
I'm not even ashamed to point out that as a callow youth, there were people I 'hit on' with the hope of only engaging in bedroom gymnastics. It is my experience that some people who are lovely to talk with are mediocre lovers and some people who are a joy in bed are indifferent interlocutors.
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)
Agreed. Though it's not that I'm opposed to it in principle. It's just that it carries associations of the kind of person who actually does it. Same with nasty bars, I suppose.
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)
And I don't go to nasty bars either, so that solves that dilemma.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)
I've never got over it. I believe to this day, if we'd got together, we'd have married. He was into dronerock and architecture! He was my Brett Anderson!
Oh wait...
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)
maybe that's why i was uncomfortable on saturday-- the guys made it clear that they didn't actually care if i was 'sad' or whatever (i'm just remembering one of them admitting this once i'd pissed him off), but were only trying for a snog/shag. which felt icky.
so maybe the difference between the negative 'hitting on' and the positive 'flirting' is potential interest in the person, not just the genitalia?
(many xposts)
― colette (a2lette), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)
Well that's going into "BE CAREFUL! HE'S GOT HUMAN HEADS IN HIS FRIDGE!" territory.
That's part of my problem. I find it impossible to pretend. And as I am by nature a melancholy and introverted person, I have no means to overcome these obstacles.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)
It was in the pocket of my leather jacket, along with my metrocard and my pocket change. I paid for something on the way home, and when I got home, I had the receipt for my mangos, but no phone number!
Yes, I am kicking myself to this day!
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)
This cracks me up. The short distance from Paris to London is huge when it comes to these things. Men and women openly check each other out in Paris yet if you even make eye contact on the Tube it's as if you've committed an impardonable act of agression.
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)
so they were really also just playing the kissing game?
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)
But as I say it never happens anyway, so it's all conjecture.
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 16 August 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)
Stay Right There Tiger Flirting vs. Come Hither Flirting
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)
http://www.londons-found-riverscape.co.uk/book.html
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)
hint: only look at people you can win against in a fight.
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)
LOL, good point, ken. to be fair, i am very honest and clear with targets when i'm playing the game, so they don't get the wrong idea...
― colette (a2lette), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)
::whack!!!::
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)
This is such a sad part of English culture. No wonder I don't usually bother going when I'm in Europe.
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)
(Actually, no, I don't have that book, though I should probably look for it.)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)
can be very entertaining, or very traumatic, or both. often a good time, though.
(xpost-- it is extremely germy, which is why i often lose-- i tend to only approach people that i want to kiss, and therefore don't mind their germs as much, rather than everybody i think i can get)
― colette (a2lette), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)
Oh god I'm so sorry but I couldn't not post that
― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)
Or is that against the rules?
― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus: Hitting on someone is agressive, if but tacitly, although that's not necessarily a bad thing if you're in the mood and/or fancy the hitter.
As for flirting, that's a whole 'nother thing, and much of this thread makes me happy that I don't spend much time thinking about this stuff anymore.
― Lee G (Lee G), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)
::cries::
I don't *want* to be single. But then again, neither did Joe. He just wanted to be with someone that *wasn't* me.
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)
― na (Nick A.), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)
― Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)
(xoxox anyway)
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)
Also, is it not possible to lie about whose surname you know?
I seem to be far too interested in the kissing game.
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― Super-Masonic Black Hole (kate), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)
i don't know what's happened. i seem to have regressed back to grade 3 this weekend. cooties, ew!
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 16 August 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― Homosexual II (Homosexual II), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― jel -- (jel), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― jel -- (jel), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!!!st, Monday, 16 August 2004 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)
― Homosexual II (Homosexual II), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)
You'd be pretty old now, so you would only be hit on by octogenerian beauties and those sexagenarians in search of a 'father figure'.
amateur!!!st,
She wasn't a particularly talented actress but she was, *sigh*, otherwise respectable enough, as actresses go.
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― jel -- (jel), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)
HI WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOU BETTER*STOP CAN I BUY YOU A DRINK?*STOP OKAY I TAKE THAT AS A NO*STOP
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)
Please *STOP*
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!!!st, Monday, 16 August 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)
I think it's a love letter from a gun, though, right?
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 16 August 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― R.I.M.A. (Barima), Monday, 16 August 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)
a. on the bus andb. by teenage girls
― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 16 August 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― Rudolf B., Monday, 16 August 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 16 August 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― Rudolf B., Tuesday, 17 August 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ian c=====8 (orion), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)
I want this to be my epitaph.
― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)
last night i went to the cheese on fleet street with my friends. we had a table with 7 of us, and i was facing a table with one guy on his own. he was clearly drunk, since he kept taking naps on the table.
ricky t walked into the room, i went to say hello, and the drunk guy stood behind him, mimicing his arm movements. weird, but we just ignored it. i went back to my friends, and a few minutes later the manager appeared with a glass of wine for me. 'from the gentleman at the next table,' he said pointing at drunk guy.
i turned bright red and said thank you, looked over at the guy and said 'thanks' and looked away. he stood up, grinned at me, pointed at my friends, indicated that they smelled bad, and i should sit with him instead. i shook my head and avoided eye contact. he didn't like that. he started standing up and sitting down repeatedly, like a jack in the box, but was saluting at me at the same time. he'd also move around the table so he was always in my line of sight. finally, he pounded on the table and shouted 'I'M USEFUL!', which sent us all into fits of giggles.
luckily, rick came back then, and i used him as cover while i escaped to the bathroom. while i was gone my friend had complained to the manager, who asked him to leave. two friends left a little later, and came down to get me. 'you have to come give your details to the police!'.
apparently, as they chucked out 'my new boyfriend,' he kicked, punched and bit the bartender, and three guys had to hold him down while the cops came. eventually he got put into the police van, while shouting that he'd left his bag containing £1,000 downstairs.
observations: i've never had a stranger send over a drink. why was the first time from a real, true psycho?
and, if he's going to be a good stalker, shouldn't he have noticed that i was drinking red wine, and not sent over white?
― colette (a2lette), Friday, 3 September 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― R.I.M.A. (Barima), Friday, 3 September 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)
oh, my other favorite part: he was wearing a university of michigan baseball cap. my friends thought he could just sense the 'connection' we had...
― colette (a2lette), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)
― Gribowitz (Lynskey), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)
"Hooray, I'm useful!" (xpost)
― the impossible shortest special path! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)
― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Friday, 3 September 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)
This is like asking "What's special about crabs?".
― R.I.M.A. (Barima), Friday, 3 September 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)
Actually I guess I was hit on a few times and it was mostly lots of fun as long as long as I was suitably drunk and/or she wasn't a minger. The only time I can think of when it wasn't that fun was about '97 at uni just because the girl in question was just too weird and kinda creeped me out. Nothing actually scary though, she just had a strange look in her eye and kept staring right at me, and she didn't really seem all that mentally stable. Now I feel like I'm coming across all nasty and judgemental or something. Oh well, she was just weird that's all.
― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Friday, 3 September 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)
OMG WAS IT MIKE SKINNER?!?!
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)
I didn't do anything though I wasn't interested.
― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)
Any disrobing takes place after there's been a clear statement of intent by both parties - I don't just get naked as soon as she takes off her jacket. The last woman I dated very slowly and deliberately initiated sex with me, and she was someone I was convinced I didn't have a chance with. I just don't read the signs of attraction very well.
What I was trying to say was that in 9 out of 10 cases I don't realize that I'm being flirted with / hit on / picked up until things have moved well past the flirting stage and and well into the clothes-off stage.
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)
― Sean Bateman, Friday, 3 September 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― Penelope_111 (Penelope_111), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)