This is the thread for the Champions League 2004-5

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So, the qualifying rounds are out of the way, and, er, so are Rangers. Talk amongst yourselves.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe Wigan are likely to finish first in the Champions' league. In my dreams Ipswich are going to be runners up.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The guy who did for Rangers was called Vagner Love, remarkably enough

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, sorry - I thought you meant The Coca Cola Championship, which is also known as the Champions' League - mainly to me it must be said.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe Rangers keep doing this.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Have you seen them play?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

not recently. I don't even know who plays for them anymore, I've even forgotten the plucky Georgian's name temporarily.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I think we need a picture of Ricksen getting knocked about.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.fridayclub.co.uk/tommo7thmarch2004.jpg

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Quick, guard your mail slot.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.fortuna-online.nl/images/04_fishandchips/fc_fotos_2003_2004/week34a.jpg

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Why the hell are Chelski still a pool 2 team?

Worst possible draw as far as I'm concerned:
Arsenal, some inform Italian team (cause I can't tell apart), Celtic and Tel-Aviv or CSKA or Kiev.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Pool A will be dreaming of Panathinaikos-Sparta-Rosenborg, I'd reckon.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

This could be Shakhtar Donetsk's year.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it not the case that they have that one really good player?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

In Monaco, the 32 clubs will go into the draw for the group stage, which will take place in the Salle des Princes at the Grimaldi Forum at 16.00CET. For the purposes of the draw the clubs will be placed into four pots according to their coefficients (see below).

Pos. Club: Coeff:
1 FC Porto (POR) Title-holders 99.969
2 Real Madrid CF (ESP) 146.350
3 Valencia CF (ESP) 139.350
4 FC Barcelona (ESP) 134.350
5 Manchester United FC (ENG) 119.511
6 FC Bayern München (GER) 105.331
7 RC Deportivo La Coruña (ESP) 104.350
8 Arsenal FC (ENG) 103.511

Pos: Club: Coeff:
9 AC Milan (ITA) 93.531
10 Liverpool FC (ENG) 90.511
11 Juventus FC (ITA) 84.531
12 FC Internazionale (ITA) 82.531
13 AS Roma (ITA) 78.531
14 Olympique Lyonnais (FRA) 70.947
15 Chelsea FC (ENG) 67.511
16 Panathinaikos FC (GRE) 65.467

Pos: Club: Coeff:
17 PSV Eindhoven (HOL) 65.247
18 Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER) 62.331
19 Celtic FC (SCO) 60.600
20 AC Sparta Praha (CZE) 54.914
21 AS Monaco FC (FRA) 51.947
22 RSC Anderlecht (BEL) 49.528
23 AFC Ajax (HOL) 48.247
24 Paris Saint-Germain FC (FRA) 45.947

Pos: Club: Coeff:
25 Rosenborg BK (NOR) 42.226
26 FC Dynamo Kyiv (UKR) 41.300
27 Olympiacos CFP (GRE) 40.467
28 Werder Bremen (GER) 37.331
29 FC Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR) 17.300
30 Fenerbahçe SK (TUR) 16.656
31 Maccabi Tel-Aviv FC (ISR) 14.012
32 PFC CSKA Moskva (RUS) 8.572

Is CSKA's the lowest coefficient ever or what?

Celtic could end up with Porto, Juventus, Rosenborg again.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Not Porto again. Anything but that.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah, to Porto I say, bring it on fuckfaces.
Though it could be painful to watch them get strechered off again and again over two games.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm really fearing Barca-Liverpool-Celtic-any of the others

It'll cause the biggest ructions in our house

― Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Werder Bremen aren't bad for the fourth pool, could be a nasty fight for third place from them.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Has the UEFA webbie just crashed 5 minutes before the draw or is my browser playing funny buggers?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I remembered! Arveladze!

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

From the website I'm watching for the draw:
NOW: More waffle from a suit. How much longer is this going to go on for? Just do the draw!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't be bothered to watch or monitor this live, but I did watch the Carling Cup draw, hoping for a good one for Bristol Rovers (good draw = easy home draw, away to someone enormous, or a London tie so that I can watch them), but we are away to Norwich, which is none of the good things.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, Chelski and Porto together!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

This is turning into groups of death vs. groups of 'ow', isn't it?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I was hoping Monaco would draw those two as well but sadly its PSG.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Right, 'pool are stuffed, then.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Barca again?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

everyone is stuffed, but Bayerm/juve/ajax?????

Liverpool have monaco and Depro (who were about the easiest of the top seeds)

― Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Group H
FC Porto
Chelski
PSG
CSKA Moscow

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Celtic are concentrating on the UEFA Cup.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Chelski vs CSKA...Abramovich's loyalties split?

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

poor celtic

― Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

A tad harsh ain't it?

Barcelona
AC Milan
Celtic
Shakhtar Donetsk

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Even I don't think Manu could screw this up.

MANU
Olympique Lyonnais
Sparta Prague
Fenerbahce

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha-hey, Man U have an away leg in Turkey!

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Now who gets Rosenborg...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Arsenal!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: Group A vs Group G

A
Deportivo La Coruna
Liverpool
AS Monaco
Olympiakos

G
Valencia
Inter Milan
Anderlecht
Werder Bremen

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

By god Arsenal have it easy.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Cor, Liverpool could finish 5th in that group. Straight into the Zenith Data Systems Cup.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i was just wondering this morning what would happen if chelski and CSKA ended up in the same group, seeing as how the same person owns both of them, are there any precedents for this?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 26 August 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Apparently Abramovich's mate owns CSKA. Abramovich simply owns the company that paid them $14M to buy two players. No conflict there then :-P

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, well that's FINE then...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget Celtic knocked Barcelona out of the UEFA Cup last season!

Which is why Barca will give them a right royal tonking this time round...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Man U will go out in the 2nd round again, Arsenal and Chelsea for the semis again

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there any reason no-one's posted Arsenal's group?

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

it smells

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

of arse

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

GROUP A
Deportivo La Coruna (Spain)
Liverpool (England)
Monaco (France)
Olympiakos (Greece)

GROUP B
Real Madrid (Spain)
AS Roma (Italy)
Bayer Leverkusen (Germany)
Dynamo Kiev (Ukraine)

GROUP C
Bayern Munich (Germany)
Juventus (Italy)
Ajax Amsterdam (Holland)
Maccabi Tel Aviv (Israel)

GROUP D
Manchester United (England)
Olympique Lyon (France)
Sparta Prague (Czech Republic)
Fenerbahce (Turkey)

GROUP E
Arsenal (England)
Panathinaikos (Greece)
PSV Eindhoven (Holland)
Rosenborg Trondheim (Norway)

GROUP F
Barcelona (Spain)
AC Milan (Italy)
Celtic (Scotland)
Shakhtar Donetsk (Ukraine)

GROUP G
Valencia (Spain)
Inter Milan (Italy)
Anderlecht (Belgium)
Werder Bremen (Germany)

GROUP H
Porto (Portugal)
Chelsea (England)
Paris St Germain (France)
CSKA Moscow (Russia)

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I was really hoping the Borg would manifest in Group C, because then THE NINETIES REVIVAL CAN REALLY GET GOING!

(though it might have been better if Dortmund were in there too)

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

It's been said before, many many many many times before but... fucking Arsenal!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i really hope they win it

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

and then get stripped of the title due to random drugs tests.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Which is why Barca will give them a right royal tonking this time round...

Say it ain't so Larrson.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Well Barcelona should be a lot better since they got rid of all those shit Dutchmen

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

In the last 8 weeks of last season Barca were playing the best football in Europe, they were on fire, unfortunately they had already been knocked out the champs league, but they pulled themselves up from 10th in the league at Xmas to finish second. And now they're signed some very good players

― Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Are the knockout stages done via random draw as well?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Seeded second round then free draw for the quarters I be thinking.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 26 August 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

'It's been said before, many many many many times before but... fucking Arsenal!'

we are good aren't we? :-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Nigh anything else that may happen in the Champs League is more or less okey with me, as long Real and Bayern loose a lot :)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

It's not waffle, it's quality punditry.

(I still don't know what x-post means)

I might put 10p on Barcelona.

Come on, Roma, Bayer Leverkusen and Dynamo Kiev!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I seriously think Arsenal and Chelsea are two of the four strongest teams in the competition right now. But right now doesn't mean mid-March of course.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Well Barcelona should be a lot better since they got rid of all those shit Dutchmen

This theory hasn't helped Rangers much.

I want to cry. The one thing I didn't want to happen (Henrik Larsson back at Celtic playing for the opposition), and it happens. And to cheer me up, we only have AC Milan to get past as well. I'm praying Donner Shish Kebab FC or whatever they are called can do us a favour.

Is Shota Arveladze the only famous player Rangers have now?

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael Mols!

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Prso's more famous but no-one can pronounce his name

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

It will be like Henrik's testimonial, he'll play one half for each team. UEFA have said it's OK.

Oh we do have fun.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Prso's more famous but no-one can pronounce his name

It went from Perso to Persho to Presho to Prrrrrrrrrrso over the course of about five minutes on Radio Scotland last night. I think "that useless pony-tailed dumpling" would suffice though.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

That will only work until another Rangers' player starts sporting a pony-tail too

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 26 August 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

celtic's cup.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 26 August 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

um, slightly off-topic, but what have they odne to the uefa cup????

http://www.premierleague.com/fapl.rac?command=setSelectedId&nextPage=enNewsLatest&id=625205&type=com.fapl.website.news.NewsItem&categoryCode=NewsEuropeanCompetitionNews&breadcrumb=europcomp_breadcrumb

(woah, that's a big link) GROUP STAGES????? home OR away??? madness i tells yer...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 27 August 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

That is rubbish.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 27 August 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I totally disagree. That looks fantastic!

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 27 August 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, yet more opportunities for Millwall fans to smash up European cafes!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 27 August 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure about this. I don't like the randomness of the home or away thing, but this lottery may get rid of some of the decent teams before Celtic's inevitable parachute back down after the Champions League group stages.

UEFA Cup Final is in Lisbon, which would be much nicer to get to than Istanbul anyway.

― ailsa (ailsa), Friday, 27 August 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

hmmmm...

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm drooling with the anticipation. maybe i should go downstairs and actually watch some of the football...?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't watch any more

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

barcelona are sooooo good. : /

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

celtic need to start running studs down the back of barcelona legs, more.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Can you spot the former Rangers player?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Chelsea 3-0 up, Arsenal winning just 1-0 at home, but looking pretty comfortable.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

jackie macnamara should have been sent off then, with giuly clear through on goal and scythed. excellent save from young david marshall from ronaldinho's spot. saves his best stuff fr barca.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

YES! MON THE HOOPS! 1-1.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

lovely goal from Sutton that, and more special was that save.

basically, yer man Cooooozen is otm

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I must say, camara has really stepped up tonight in patches and played some nice touches, passes and even some football. looks good at wide right, too.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Did it finish 1-1? That's a good point, if so. I am pleased that both English clubs won.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

it's still going martin, still going for the win!!!

celtic's champions league record is a thing of queer beauty:

at home: played 6, won 5, drawn 1, lost 0
away from home: played 6, won 0, drawn 0, lost 6

awful on the road.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

it's got plenty left as it kicked off late, Sutton has come off the bench and looks solid.

Larsson now on pitch, all bets are off

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

In a match of similar quality, Leatherhead scored twice in the last 2 minutes to get a 2-2 draw at AFC Wimbledon. We're still unbeaten (70 league games now) but OUCH.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooh, quarter of the Celtic game left and it's on Sky Sports 2. I will watch and cheer you on, except I don't generally cheer alone at home, except when a committed fan of a team that scores.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

sutton has come on and played a total BEZ role motivating and fighting for everything, camara looks a new player, petrov looks a new player (should've scored should've scored!!!). it's anyones, still.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

decwho?

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

bollocks

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

jackie injured, prognosis is a broken heart.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I am taping tonight's HIGHLIGHTS on ITV! I went past a pub full of CELTIC FANS in Soho!

Why do Arsenal fans booOOOOOoOOOoOOooooooOOOOOOooo Edu?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

there is still too much unecessary dead weight at celtic. why do a club of their quality persist with momo sylla?

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

sentimentality?

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

cross post?

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

humph < /cross post>

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

agathe and camara looked out of their depth. i liked sutton and balde. larsson dignified.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Did that go off his left nut?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

sutton was lucky not to get a card (unless he did in the last 10 mins, I couldn't handle any more, after seeing larsson in front of an open goal)
Just when Celtic were looking confident and bossing it...

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(except that wasn't Chris)

― not Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Arsenal fans shout "EdUUUUUU" rather than boo him.

Bad luck, Celtic fans - that second Barca goal was a bit fortunate for them. It'll be very hard to qualify now, as we expected, with Barca away, and two matches against Milan to come.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

chelseas strip made them look like a team of embassy mild fag packets
or maybe its because ive stopped smoking :(

― zappi (joni), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Barca away in the last game though, so chances are they'll have the reserves out. Celtic were pretty good tonight, a classic celts-in-Europe attitude on show, and really, when they play like that they can take points from anyone. Losing by two stupid goals was disappointing, but I remain optimistic. Well done to the English sides tonight.

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

From what my dad told me, Milan didn't look too clever tonight against a ten-man Shaktar Donetsk team. I would rather Shaktar were total crap and we could at least play for the third place and the UEFA. Now I have no idea where this group is going.

Deco is some player, and Barcelona are a far better team than they were last time we played them. I liked that no-one around me at Parkhead cheered Larsson, when he came on or when he scored. I didn't like being caught up in the fiasco outside that led to the late kick-off. And I really didn't like all the offside decisions every time Camara and Hartson even remotely looked like doing anything.

Lennon wasn't his usual self, which contributed a lot to the result. McNamara wasn't either. Agathe looked far better than he does on a weekly basis, and Camara was OK in fits and starts (lovely work to set up Sutton's goal). Jury's still out on Juninho, but I get the impression he doesn't like Camara much.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

haha how come?

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Because he (Camara) took the ball off Juninho's toes thereby arsing up a perfectly good chance during the Old Firm game, which was a bit mean, and I saw Juninho shouting at him a couple of times tonight for not passing him the ball. I just got the impression that there wasn't much camaraderie there. (no pun intended)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Camara does strike me as quite a selfish player though. He's always dying to lash in a screamer rather than, you know, pass it.

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't like how the ITV commentary team just said "how about that for a welcome for a visiting player" as Larsson came on. No-one was cheering or singing for Larsson, it was all Celtic songs not Larsson songs. Anyone who was supporting Larsson rather than Celtic should be ashamed of themselves, but I didn't see any evidence of it.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Also nice to see Vidar Riseth missing a sitter (for Rosenborg), brings back memories...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw an enormous 'King of Kings' picture on an Irish flag, being passed around the crowd. He had his tongue out again. It was very very funny.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

In fact, when he was getting ready to come on I heard low boos echoing around. Unless it was just the entire crowd talking about larsson coming on and it sounded like booing.

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

What fiasco outside?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Insider knowledge: Jan at work knows the guy who installed the new turnstiles at Celtic Park. He was rather miffed that the commentator on telly announced that the late kick off was due faulty turnstiles. In fact, the turnstiles worked fine (he has to go to every home game this season to monitor them) and the problem was that everyone arrived at the game all at once. You can't control when people are going to turn up at the ground, and you can't let turnstiles admit more than one person at a time, because that would defeat the object. Anyway, that's what he says, but I'd be interested to hear Ailsa's take on it.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

so it was 'crowd congestion' then. the term 'turnstile failure' did amuse me a little when I heard it.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 09:04 (twenty-one years ago)

My video cuts off before the end, despite PDC 'ON'!!!!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Guy next to me at Celtic Park "Aye, nae wonder the polis hud to step in with so many people here."
Me: "What 60,000 as opposed to the normal 60,000."
Him: "Wut?"
Me: "Nothing."

Jackie & Lennie played pish. MO'N made a tactical error in going with a 4-4-2 with Juninho in it - simply handed them the midfield. A half fit Sutton was head and shoulders above the rest of his team and nearly inspired us to get something out of the game, but daft goals cost us. Barca are fucking superb, most teams would struggle against the seven players they bought in the summer never mind the ones they already had.
The only song I heard anyone sing for Henrik was "Bobo's gonnae get ye!"

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Henrik heard it too, and promptly scored.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Did all 60,000 stay much past half time? That'd be a novelty at Parkhead.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

they don't stay to see their team win comfortably 19 out of 20 games?

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

20 out of 20 these days ;)

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

No. The last time I was there there were season ticket holders turned up 20 minutes into the match, had a J, went for a pie 10 minutes before half-time, came back for a J during half time, went for a pish, came back 10 minutes into the second half, had a J, left 20 minutes before the end. The season ticket holder I was with (who may or may not post on here...) says they do it every week.

The stadium was about 3/4 empty by 15 minutes from the end.

Diehards, eh?

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Whereas the Hibee I was with at one game (who may or may not post on here) insisted on staying in the Celtic end to watch Celtic score their 6th goal :-P

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I never leave a match before the final whistle because I am stingy and I want to get my money's worth, even if it is my money's worth of misery.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

rather like FAPs for me

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I have only ever left one match, when AFCWimbledon conceded a 5th goal in the London Senior Cup, and it was pissing down, and knew that the bar would be heaving if I waited for the full-time rush. I was ashamed and still am - I really, really, really, don't get it.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i've left two games early - Watford v Notts Co. (94) and Arsenal v Oxford (87?), oh and SPurs v Chelsea but only by a couple of mins - gotta beat the traffic innit

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Last time I had a season ticket at Leeds I left several games at half-time as the football was dire and I preferred to spend the time in the pub. I'd paid my money and made my choice. I don't get this misplaced sense of duty when it comes to football.

― Adam Faithless (Adam Faithless), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never left a game early.

I have no idea what the reason was for the congestion outside, given that I was stuck in the middle of thousands of grumpy people with nothing but clueless policemen standing around going "we'll let you through when other people get past the other way" and "no, you can't get through" and "it's OK you aren't missing the game" and other such useful bits of info. no reason why, though.

It was OK as the game had been delayed, so people weren't quite so impatient - there were a few people climbing up the side of the wall running along the back of the stadium and running along it and jumping off over the police cordon, but I didn't like being in such a narrow space with several hundreds of shoving and pushing fans. If the game had kicked off while we were standing there, they could have had another Hillsborough down that tunnel. As it was, they delayed the game and everyone was relatively happy under the circumstances.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

What's a J?

― Joe Kay (feethurt), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never seen this Celtic side so horribly outplayed. It's a tribute to Sutton's fortitude that he almost stole something from the game. Barca should have been 3 up at least before he even got the chance, though.

I am also wondering what a J is. Surely not a Joint? Are all Celtic fans stoners? I suppose that would explain some things.

― Ally C (Ally C), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

ITV London is non-PDC, dur-brain.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

ITV's headlights showed not one attempt on goal or even a successfully executed pass by Celtic in the first half. it looked very bad.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

duh, that's HIGHlights

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

xposts to everyone

Celtic did have a couple of headers in the first half plus a scuffed Thommo effort, but mostly we were wondering where the ball was. Wee Jackie's in hospital saying "where did he go?" in his sleep.

A "J" is indeed a joint.

As for ailsa's Hillsborough reference. It was quite a crush but not too an extent where I thought there was danger of anyone getting hurt. I certainly suffered worse as a kid leaving Hampden without touching the ground.

The guys in work today were telling me how much of an old prick Archie McWeetabixHeid was being last night. They were discussing the delays and the crowd congestion so he says to Kenny Dalglish "You'll have experienced one or two nights when this happens eh Kenny?"
Dalglish mumbled a quick "Aye, a couple of times it got quite bad" with "YOU FUCKING ARSEHOLE CNUT I WATCHED PEOPLE DIE ON THE FUCKING PITCH!" quite obviously on the tip of his commendably restrained tongue.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

ManYoo down 2-0 to Lyon after only 30 minutes.

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

tonight is a beautiful night...... so far

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

RUUUUUUUUUUUD!!

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

CUUUUUUUUUUUNT!!

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Liverpool are looking nice, Luis Garcia is playing ever so well, and young Stevie - words just fail me.

Cisse's goal was great, it would have taken the keeper into the back of the net if he'd got behind it

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Kiev game abandoned due to "injury to referee"??? what does this mean?

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Man United, apart from a spell where Ruud got them their two goals, have been mostly dreadful - they're fortunate they've only conceded two.

Damn, and I'm going to Rob's birthday thing tomorrow, so I'll miss the big game: Middlesbrough v Banik Ostrava on 5.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

it was Friskie who was injured, apparently a missile thrown from the crowd dented his hair

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

or even better, Millwall vs Ferencvaros on Bravo!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I note that Roma were down a goal, then on the stroke of half-time Frisk sent off a Roma player, then as he left the pitch, something hit him - lots of blood. 4th official deemed too inexperienced to take over (so why was he there?). I doubt there were many away fans, and why would they try to hurt the ref anyway? I suspect UEFA will blame Roma and deem them to have lost anyway.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

The TV cameras caught the fan throwing whatever it was, it seems! He was wearing the same colour shirt as Roma.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

It was the vindictive action of a spurned lover, mark my words.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Real Madrid stuffed 3-0!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The missile hitting Frisk is confirmed as coming from the VIP section! Good grief!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

And from the highlights, Liverpool looked very impressive indeed (though Luis Garcia missed a couple of excellent chances). Was it as one-sided as that looked?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Can we confirm that it actually was a missile?

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

What, like an ICBM or something? I think they are using missile more broadly than that.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

monaco started to come back in the middle of the second half, but then baros scored his very good goal and that obviously took the wind out of their sails

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know what Roma's turnstiles or security are like, but I couldn't have smuggled an ICBM into Orient last Saturday.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

(I am just imagining a 50% happy, 50% unhappy household in Walthamstow...)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got over last night, and am happy for liverpool! (plus we're off to venice tomorrow morning!) There were dark clouds hovering over our house last night though!

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooh, enjoy Venice! (Chris too, obv.)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

It was a vibrator cunning hidden in a pair of knickers; that's why Friskie's guard was down; he thought the incoming was friendly fire.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

cunningly

Pic here

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

boy oh boy did Liverpool look nice last night. Not making any big claims for them at all but it's brilliant to see them playing some decent football and using the wings, oh god what a joy it was to see Steve Finnan haring down the wing. it's been ages since we've created that many chances in a game.

reckon the crowd haven't been that animated in ages either.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

must be the increased frame rate.

coat please...

― the neurotic rassafrassa of harrumph (blueski), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

As for ailsa's Hillsborough reference. It was quite a crush but not too an extent where I thought there was danger of anyone getting hurt.

I think you'll find I said that it could have got worse if the game had kicked off and the relatively good-humoured grumpiness had turned into anger and frustration and a lot of people determined to get past the rather pathetic police cordon and into the ground.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 16 September 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

this celtic side have been ruthlessly outplayed like that a few times, ally c. see: barcelona for the first half at celtic park last year, also barcelona in barcelona last year, and for another supreme example: against sevilla last year. whose elaborate triangles had us beat.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 16 September 2004 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

in the sections of celtic park I have been in, 3, as a season ticket holder (temporary west, north-east, and west) there has been quite a lot of joint smoking each season.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 16 September 2004 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

for another supreme example: against sevilla last year

Eh?

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 16 September 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)I know what you said ailsa and I didn't disagree. I was merely using you as a linking mechanism into the "Archie McPherson is a callous cunt" story. No offence.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 16 September 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

whatever they were called.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 16 September 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Villarreal?

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 16 September 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I can never remember the name.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 16 September 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with Ally - one sided as some of these other matches were at times I think Tuesday was at a different level. There was a 15 minute spell after Celtic scored when they did well but apart from that Barca had something like 65% possession, an unbelievable statistic given Celtic were at home. Even their good spell was down to Barca's shell-shock, when they found themselves looking into the abyss of not winning a game they should have been leading about 5-0.

It's interesting though how often British teams seem to be able to get a result based on less possession and less good chances than continental opposition - something to do with being more direct and taking a higher percentage of their chances. Man U managed it again last night.

Agree great to see Liverpool turning on the style at last. Reinforces my suspicion that losing Owen will be no bad thing in the long run. cf also the Real Madrid result.

― frankiemachine, Thursday, 16 September 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

from bbc

"Meanwhile, United chief executive David Gill wants the second group stage, which was removed before last year's tournament, restored.

"I think all the big clubs would have preferred to keep the second stage of the Champions League," he said.

"We don't believe the change actually addressed the problem because the second group stage was actually the better one.

"There was a higher quality of opposition in the second group phase than the first one and that is something that needs to be looked at.

"Even Uefa president Lennart Johansson said last season's final between Porto and Monaco was possibly caused by the impact of the revised format."

i can actually HEAR Dave Boyle's blood boiling!

― teh pow! (blueski), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:06 (twenty-one years ago)

That second group stage largely responsible before knackering half the players in the last World Cup.

Surely what Gill means is "we want to be given the change to beat teams like Bayer Leverkusen comfortably in the second round rack up enough points to stop absurd pretenders like Porto and Monaco having the temerity to go all the way to the final?"

I think it would be funny if they restored the second group stage, and then didn't put Manyoo in the top pool. That'll show them and their shameless gerrymandering.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:27 (twenty-one years ago)

That second group stay was largely responsible for knackering half the players before the last World Cup, I mean. What an abysmal sentance.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

ARGH! Stage.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking of knackered, did Reyes look knackered (already) the other day?

Is Young Rooney going to play tonight? If so, I shall look forward to that.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Did I imagine or did I hear Mourinho bellyaching about Spurs' negative tactics against Chelsea - you know, Jose Mourinho, former manager of PORTO!

― Jedermann sein eigener Fussball (Dada), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope (and expect) everyone's going to spend the entire season 'bring their bus and park it in front of goal' just to get on his tits.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

of course pointing out to Gill that it's called teh CHAMPIONS LEAGUE and his team aren't, currently, champions, wouldn't help would it?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

... and with little hope of becoming champions in the foreseeable future

― Jedermann sein eigener Fussball (Dada), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Rooney is back.

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

And he's scored a fine goal already! 2-0 to Man U, Giggs getting the first.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you watching, Martin? The description online makes it sound pretty cheeky.

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes - and he's just got another terrific goal. Two great shots that he made look very easy. One with each foot.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

This is why watching Man Yoo is always weird for me. With the exception of a very few Mancunian fans, most of their fans annoy me and consequently so do the team. (I've discovered to my dismay that in most sports, I'm way more about loathing than loving.) But since England is one of my favorite national sides and they invariably have a goodly number of Man U players, I'm left hoping that they don't get injured or lose their confidence all while secretly hoping their team loses.

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I have nothing at all against Man U, and have generally enjoyed watching them most of the last many years.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I have nothing against them per se, but many of their fans in America want some corrective beating.

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Rooney has just got his first ever hat-trick!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Rooney The Red Devil Hatrick Hero !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

All the pundits and commentators are going to be simultaneously ejaculating all over the studio at this...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

ha, i bet the newspapers are not creative enough to come up with that headline in the back pages tomorrow !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I was never convinced by Rooney but you have to take your hat off to anyone who can get a hat trick with an entire commentator up his arse.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i see fenerbache have got two back...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

rooney = big match player

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

A hat-trick AND Liverpool are losing, Wayne will be pleased!

― Jedermann sein eigener Fussball (Dada), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

It's 4-2 - I can't see Fenerbahce pulling it back.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Great game. United are turning ever more into the English Real Madrid though - embarassment of riches in attack masking a real exploding comedy clown car at the back. Why is Mikael Silvestre still playing for a top club?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Silvestre is horrendously inconsistent as opposed to horrendous - often very useful indeed (see the Liverpool game) - Brown is the same and with Rio back i can't see why they should be having problems at the back.

― Brigadier Rainham Steele, Mrs (blueski), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 07:58 (twenty-one years ago)

They did defend poorly - conceded two, could easily have been more, and I suspect Fenerbahce aren't a great side.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

masking a real exploding comedy clown car at the back

Favourite expression of the day.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't take the credit for it sadly - it was used to describe the defensive pairing of Dean Richards and Gary Doherty for the second half of last season.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 09:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Not again.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

It is unfortunate, I think, what happened to Celtic.

I enjoyed listening to the latter stages of last night's games on the WIRELESS.

Barcelona, I think they might be useful.

I see the Little Rabbit scored the other night.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 30 September 2004 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Thursday, 30 September, 2004, 09:33 GMT 10:33 UK
Porto face spitting probe
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE GROUP E

Uefa has launched an investigation into the incident in which a Porto fan spat at Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho.

Ex-Porto boss Mourinho was targeted during the warm-up at Stamford Bridge before Chelsea's 3-1 win.

The fan was thrown out but the incident was mentioned in a report by the Uefa delegate, and Porto now face a fine.

Mourinho shrugged off the incident, saying: "It's not important. I can understand some people love me and some don't love me but that is just life."

He continued: "The opposing fans do this many times. Unfortunately, these things happen. But there were also many people who wanted photos [of me covered in gob] and paid me compliments."

Mourinho left Porto in the summer after leading the Portuguese side to Champions League glory.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 30 September 2004 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

what news on Roma?

― Brigadier Rainham Steele, Mrs (blueski), Thursday, 30 September 2004 08:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish that wasn't in square brackets.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 30 September 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

He continued: "The opposing fans do this many times. Unfortunately, these things happen. But there were also many people who wanted photos (of me covered in gob) and paid me compliments."

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 30 September 2004 09:57 (twenty-one years ago)

in eurosport's, now-deemed dubious, new program where they rate the clubs of europe, fenerbahce were, on some points system they have devised, before this week, the 2nd best club in europe, apparently.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

they may be the 2nd best club but Greece are the second best country (after Albania)

― Brigadier Rainham Steele, Mrs (blueski), Thursday, 30 September 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

a point of order: celtic were 8th, a.c. milan 20th.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Who was first? Grasshoppers?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 30 September 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

neuchatel xamax.

― cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

good to see michael owen score, though.

rooney was dire. scholes looked like a bitter, resentful whinger. united badly need him to hit form. ronaldo should have come on earlier. playing o'shea in midfield is silly. maybe he could replace that muppet silvestre at centre-back?

fair play to the manyoo goalie, though. made up for his cock-up for n.ireland last week.

from the highlights i saw, liverpool also struggling. cisse looked awful, he could be heskey mk.2. worse, maybe.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40195000/jpg/_40195510_praguec203.jpg

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

van nistlerooy to star in The Mask 2

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah cisse looks pretty awful
how was miller?
he didn't seem to make much of an impression at all
saviola's goal was lovely

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

why are arsenal so shaky in europe? besides the obvious "lehmann" answer. last night's game was entertaining, though. the greeks' first equaliser was special.

celtic abysmal. larsson's absence is massive, whereas they still have enough to get away with it in the scottish league.

chelsea coasting through.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Arsenal's problem in Europe is that they try to change their game plan and play more 'european', which simply isn't their style and so they get caught between their usual fluid approach and a more defensive outlook. plus, in the premierleague most teams start out expecting to lose 4-0 whereas the european sides aren't faced with the same invincible arsenal PROPAGANDA so just play what they see and find it defensively suspect, which it surely is.

Chelsea play a contained, european game anyway, so find the Champions League a breeze. Allbeit, an extraordinarly dull breeze.

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 21 October 2004 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Celtic only need to win their last three games...

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 21 October 2004 11:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I heart Pete. He sees that propaganda affects players and football chat can be performative.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 21 October 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Pete is right - they don't play the same way. It's not just the same style but less effective. The worst example of an English team doing this was when Blackburn won the title, and were terrible in Europe. They won with a stereotypically English style, and tried to play in Europe in a European way, and were hopeless at it. If Arsenal can get the confidence to play the way they do in England, they can be as good as anyone.

We should note that without Bergkamp for away games and Viera this week, they are still doing pretty well.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 21 October 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I always mean to point out to you, as a generally careful speller, that you tend to spell Vieira wrongly.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember Blackburn having punch-ups amongst themselves in Europe.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 22 October 2004 07:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Le Saux vs Batty vs Spartak Moscow

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 22 October 2004 07:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i remember that. i also remember trelleborg beating blackburn 3-2 on aggregate - i think it may have been blackburn's european debut. i think that was in the uefa cup (the season after b'burn finished narrow runners-up/the season they won the league)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 22 October 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Champions League, who needs it? Mickey Mouse competition. Now the SPL, that's a tough nut to crack.

― What did you do in the war, Dadaismus? (Dada), Friday, 22 October 2004 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

a mate of mine was convinced blackburn would win the champions league that year. he kept going on about david batty. it was very odd.

― Pete W (peterw), Friday, 22 October 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

This wasn't Tim H, was it? Batty is just about his favourite player ever.

Alba, I am astonished that I have gone so long without ever even noticing that extra 'i'. It's not like me at all.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

it seems a superfluous i, like the second n in my surname

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Perhaps MS was conflating the Arsenal player with Christian Vieri. I know I'd like to. With lasers.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Martin, are you saying that tim is a batty boy?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 22 October 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Bravo!

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 22 October 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm surprised Tim hasn't popped up to defend himself from these 'Blackburn for European Champions' slurs.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 22 October 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, in that sense I am calling Tim a Batty boy.

Isn't there a Brazilian guitarist named Viera? Or Vieira? How is that spelt?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 22 October 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Celtic are rubbish. Martin O'Neill was trying tactics straight out of Berti's Bumper Book of Stupid Substitutions, and totally failed to realise that when your opponents have only 8 outfield players on the pitch, stretching them a bit might have more effect than Agathe running down the touchline on his own to no effect, or bumping high balls right over the box onto the head of the munchkin on the other side.

And then not bringing on Juninho AT ALL despite him being a player bought specifically for the big Champions League games.

If we fail to get into the UEFA Cup on goal difference, it's all MON's fault. This was the best chance we had to rack up a decent score against our rival's for third place.

Incidentally, this was the first time I've ever seen a goalie penalised under the six-second rule. Does it happen a lot?

One journalist asked MON after the match if he thought Celtic still had a chance of going through to the knockout stages. He's probably being fitted for his straitjacket about now.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Panathanaikos (sp) held Arsenal!! Are they cracking?

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i imagine he's probably still picking his teeth up from the interview room floor, isn't he?

more woeful euro-arsenal then, although mr porkpie informs me that the barca/milan match was a classic, bugs bunny's goal was a corker, that much i do know...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I fell asleep watching the highlights. Chelsea looked like fag packets. Earlier on, I tried listening to Stoke City as some kind of protest, but it was hard to maintain enthusiasm for more than a couple of minutes. But HOORAY for BBC SportXtra or whatever it's called.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I fell asleep watching the highlights

I thought the Barca-Milan game (watched live) was a stonewall classic. Milan nick one after 27 minutes leaving a wonderful, poetic, Barca side with an hour to break down one of the world's great defences twice. Finally made it with a very late, very great, and completely deserved Ronaldinho winner. I'm now hoping Barca win the whole thing. The beautiful game, indeed.

― frankiemachine, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

Revive, specifically to ask what the hell is going on with Arsenal tonight (I'm only half watching it out of the corner of my eye, but they seem a bit poor)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I jumped around my front room when I thought Bayern had gone 4-0 up. I have a horrible feeling that they will now win 2-0 at Highbury and go through.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

worse to sit and watch than the celtic match.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm looking forward to both of tomorrow's games. Man U v Milan will be a stormer.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Impressive result for Liverpool though Jerzy's howler means they're not quite certs for the q-f. What did happen with Frings' shot at 3-0? We had company and I wasn't really paying attention - did he miss or was it disallowed?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

http://2.csx.jp/~premiership/face/igorbiscan.gif
Igor, I salute you.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Mike - Frings' shot was disallowed. The ITV scored display actually went up to 4-0 for several seconds.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a horrible feeling that they will now win 2-0 at Highbury and go through.

i really hope they do but my horrible feeling is that they'll concede a goal deep in the second half and that will be that for yet another season.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

bloody typical Liverpool as well - such a sloppy goal to concede, more than Bayern's. i'm sure they'll go through tho.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Mike - Frings' shot was disallowed. The ITV scored display actually went up to 4-0 for several seconds.

I think he actually missed - he faked to go far post then went near post and blasted it into the side netting.

Arsenal brittle in the cold, again.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I miss football :(

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Predictions for tonight?

I'm going for Man Utd 2 Milan 1 and Barcelona 1 Chelsea 0.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

The Nipper otm, Biscan had an absolute stormer, he gets alot of criticism but I think he can be useful.

And John Arne-Riise, how he must be revelling in Houllier's departure, is it me or is he actually their closest thing to a playmaker right now? When they took him off against Man United earlier in the season it was game over.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Mourinho naming the team a day early - C/D?

Arsenal were baaaaaad.

― Pete W (peterw), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

John Arne Riise is ON FIRE right now - I always thought he was wasted when played as a fullback last season as he's been your best natural wide player for the last few years.

Also he is Fantasy League gold because despite playing as an attacking midfielder most of the time he's still classed as a defender (see also Gareth Barry before he got injured).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

He was wasted too when Houllier fucking dropped him for so long!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that 'wasted' as in 'off his head'?

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Colin My Scouse Mate pointed out last night that Liverpool were very fortunate to draw (probably) the only side with a worse defence than them and with as bad a keeper. Can't say I disagree, I thought they were dreadful - Biscan and Riise were probably the only two highlights.

I won't mention how miserable Steven Gerrard looked when the third goal went in.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Arsenal were absolutely fucking dire last night - 3-1 flattered them. I think they'll go thru tho.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

The only thing worse than the despair for Arsenal is the hope. My dream scenario would be for Arsenal to be 2-0 up after 93 minutes only for Jens Lehmann to fumble the ball into his own net. Please God let it be so...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, watching the highlights last night L'pool conceded a lot of chances to Leverkusen (they had looked fairly ropey on ITV2 until such time as I had to switch over; I was surprised when they took the lead). I can see the return being a high-scoring affair but Liverpool will probably survive by the odd goal in nine or something.

Yes, Frings did miss (he was clearly onside).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Chelsea are gonna get dicked tonight.

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, last night was a bad night for French football - Arsenal lost... take my wife, no please, take my wife...

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Breaking news: AC Milan team doctor being questioned by Greater Manchester police for "exposing himself".

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Lets just hope AC Milan's defense 'expose themselves' and get questioned by the greatest Manchester attack.

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, we'll be expecting an "arresting" performance from the Reds tonight

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and Mourihno didn't only name his side 24+ hours in advance, he named the Barce team too (and the referee) in an outstanding display of off-the-cuff press conference showboating. I expect he got the Barce team wrong.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

If Chelsea didn't have the injury problem I'd actually give them a 50/50 chance of victory tonight. A little less than that now but I expect either a draw (0-0 most likely) or an 'unlucky' defeat.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I think 0-0 - their defence has been so strong, and that still looks sound to me. Man U I'm not sure about, but perhaps a narrow win.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

pretty depressing how English clubs just can't cut it in this tournament. Tho Drogba was unlucky to be sent off, and Barcelona's subsequent charge seemingly as a result of it was quite alarming.

i knew Maxi would score because he has annoying hair.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Glum. The most United deserved was a 0-0 draw, and I can't really argue with a 1-0 defeat. Even the two chances in the first half (Scholes & Fortune) were against the run of play. I'm surprised and disappointed. Since December United have been brilliant in England, and if they hadn't started the season so badly they would be in Chelsea's position at the top of the league, but tonight it just didn't happen. There didn't really seem to be that confidence about them (though I spose Milan aren't Everton).

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Man Utd looked pretty good up against Milan, I thought. The problem was that Milan were fantastic. Ferguson was wrong to take Ronaldo off for Van Nistelrooy but Carroll's blunder was awful.

I disagree with the Horse about the lack of confidence - the gulf in class didn't seem that huge until midway through the second half.

Liverpool are going to get drawn against Lyon and make the semi's, mark my words.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

my only hope now is for at least one penalty shootout in one of the second legs - that would be exciting

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

my only hope now is for at least one penalty shootout in one of the second legs - that would be exciting

Well, it's unlikely that Liverpool or Arsenal will be involved in a reverse 3-1, so that would be United or Chelsea. I don't think United will keep a clean sheet at the San Siro, but I could see Chelsea winning 2-1 and it going to penalties. Though your best bet is probably the Juve v Real game.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

ronaldo and rooney were not at the races tonight, but i agree w/matt that ronaldo should have stayed on - his unpredictability seemed like the only thing that could upset the (tremendous, unruffled) milan defence.

seedorf = timely, excellent performance. i'd kind of forgotten he existed, so i was surprised to see that he's still rather good.

crespo = looks like he has regained his sharpness and confidence since his chelsea nightmare.

kaka = shoots wastefully quite a lot of the time. good player, though.

keane, giggs, scholes = anonymous.

roy carrol = i've been a strong defender of him, as i feel that his occasional horriffic blunders have merely been punctuations following sustained periods of exellence, but now i am tempted to back down from this position...

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 23 February 2005 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Crespo actually played pretty well for most of the time at Chelsea - he certainly wasn't the disgrace that Veron was. he also had a good goals-to-game ratio; i think if mourinho had kept him he could have got something out of him.

chelsea-barca will be fun. shame i'm going to miss it.

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Rooney had his moments, that amazing chip over the Milan defender, shame the keeper got to it. Quinton Fortune should have scored in the first half as well.

Milan looked like they were a cut above, though. Although Gattuso is looking more and more like an Ewok every time I see him.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

he got his own team wrong!

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:18 (twenty-one years ago)

He got the Barca team right, I think.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)

and the ref, unfortunately.

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

but was there a stain on Jose's tie?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

rijkaard probably flobbed at him.

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 24 February 2005 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

We'll beat them at home - no problem. Crespo - yes he did have quite a good goals to games ratio, but everytime I saw him I got the impression that he wasn't prepared to work a defence to make things happen when we were up against it. It was more - hey you guys, why don't you create some chances for me? I have to admit he's a good finisher when the chances do come.

The goalkeeping debate is interesting. 3 of the top teams have dodgy keepers in theory - Caroll, Lehmann/Alumina and Dudek. But I think there are always 2 or 3 amazing keepers around who are better than the rest.(Banks, Bonetti, Clemence, Shilton, Seaman, Schmichel, potentially Cech? These guys had no weaknesses excpet maybe carrying on too long in the case of Shilts and Seaman). The ratio of amazing saves versus cutting out mistakes depends on who they play for to some extent. I think Niemi is terrific, but he certainly gets the opportunity to make plenty of saves playing behind Soton's back 4. Van Der Saar is also good. Cech hasn't really made a mistake this season, but hasn't had much to do. I thought Dudek was fantastic when he arrived, but now he's chucking em in. I really rate Cudicini as a fantastically agile shot stopper, but he is definitely not the best on crosses and always makes a couple of howlers a season - usually v. Arsenal!

So to get to the point Carroll, Lehman, Dudek are very good keepers, but not in the top bracket of their generation. Wenger, Fergie and Benitez know this, but cannot find anyone better who's available. Perhaps whoever advises them isn't convinced that Van Der Saar/ Niemi/Jaskelienen offer much more. (Thought - have they tried for Buffon or Cassillas? - this would be BIG money, but could be well spent.)

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Also it's an incredibly DIFFERENT job keeping goal for one of the top clubs vs the rest. Carroll seems too diffident to really boss the area and organize the back four. The mistakes probably eat away at this confidence, but I think the best keepers of their time KNEW they were fantastic. Shilton used to scare strikers when he came out to get crosses or dive at their feet.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

It turns out that the rumour that somebody kicked Mourinho up the arse in the tunnel at half time was just a rumour, shame.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

the problem is twofold really. truly great keepers are at a premium (there's less of them than any other position), so they cost more and will be very well paid at their clubs so less inclined to move (buffon, for instance). this means you have to get them reasonably early, before they make the first big move (as with cech, schmeichel, buffon etc). but because keepers mature later than others, you are often taking more of a risk doing this. a keeper might be very good at 23 and you have to gamble that you think he'll turn into great - and you get stung (lehmenn, howard etc) but have to keep playing them, just in case they come good (it took schmeichel a while to settle i think).

i don't think niemi et al are sufficiently better than what they already have to be worth buying.

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 24 February 2005 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha Dr C, this is coming from the man whose club has the two best keepers in the Premiership and keeps on on the bench. So much has hinged on colossal goalkeeping blunders this season that the top club's can't really allow this to continue.

I don't understand why Man Utd didn't go for Robinson when Leeds were trying to offload him. Elsewhere in the Prem, Cudicini, Van Der Sar, Niemi, Friedel, maybe Schwarzer and Jaaskelinen - they're all better than Carroll. Whether they're Champions League quality is debatable.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 24 February 2005 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

(You can never tell though, look how highly Fabien Barthez was rated when he arrived at Old Trafford).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 24 February 2005 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Stefan Klos is a better keeper than Lehmann and Niemi. Van der Sar doesn't get enough praise.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 24 February 2005 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I will eat my hat if Casillas ever leaves Madrid.

I did not know that Mourinho had been Van Gaal's assistant at Barcelona. That explains where his 'outrageous arrogance' act comes from.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 24 February 2005 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

ah, it was so beatiful to watch milan play last night. the confidence and elegance of the their midfield was extraordinary. almost humilating man utd at their home ground. seeing cafu run up and down the right side(without stupid giggsy trying to take advantage of that) it was indeed a joy. I hope we can get sheva back for the second leg, though I doubt it.

forza milan!

― Lovelace, Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

have Milan improved a lot since folding completely against Deportivo last season then? (sincere question!)

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 24 February 2005 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

well, they went on to win the league that year, and is leading it right now. they got a better attack for sure with crespo so I'd say they are better this year but not by much. it's not like a team like milan needs to improve all THAT much. in my opinion they are the best team in europe together with chelsea and barcelona(duh!). though it's a shame kaka hasnt reached the same heights as last year. god was he brilliant then.

― Lovelace, Thursday, 24 February 2005 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh i've not been following Serie A but despite the bizarro quarter-final exit last time round they've looked pretty consistent, and i'd forgotten about Kaka's greatness

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 24 February 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

They'd be doing even better if Berlusconi'd stop pronouncing on their formation.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 25 February 2005 07:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it just me, or is the perceived winner of all these managerial psychological battles always the manager who's team is doing the best? In other words, it's not what the manager says or does or looks like, but just whether his team wins. So the press were raving about Wenger's approach last season, but now he's suddenly seen as a bit of a whinger who can't handle the pressure. And Ferguson is yesterday's man, with his outdated approach and lack of continental grace, until suddenly United start winning. Now Mourinho, who was supposedly keeping loftily detached from all the mudslinging and setting a new standard in cool, now he just looks like a bit of a twat. Twice in a month now he's come up with these 'the other manager tapped up the referee at half-time' conspiracies, and he keeps claiming that the FA and UEFA are fixing the fixture list against Chelsea. Can he handle losing?

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Friday, 25 February 2005 09:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Mourinho was always a twat, Wenger was always a whinger and Ferguson was always an arsehole - moral: never listen to what football writers/ pundits/ ex-managers and ex-players say about anything and make your own mind up about things. I'm royally fed up of hearing the words "Jose Mourinho" and "breath of fresh air" being used in the same sentence.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Contrary to the above, I think the most important thing to consider here is that Mourinho can do no wrong.

― Pete W (peterw), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I still think Mourinho naming the wrong team was a psychological masterstroke. They could have won that game had they not been down to ten men.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't listen to me on Mourinho, I'm just an embittered Celtic fan

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Naming the Barcelona team correctly was even better. It was a real 'we know what you've got and we're ready' move. I know I'm biased, but I think the man is fascinating.

― Pete W (peterw), Friday, 25 February 2005 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"He (Arsene Wenger) feels the cause of the disappointment is English football's inflated perception of itself. "I don't know where this English superiority complex comes from," said Wenger. "Bayern Munich has won the European Cup four times and Arsenal zero."

Join the club Arsene, there's been a place waiting for you for the last 8 years

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt DC otm. i don't think a red card has angered me so much since Uriah Rennie sent off Alan Shearer.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Woah, Chelsea v Barcelona! Goals! Dodgy penalties! Pierluigi Collina! (and it's only been on for half an hour)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Best game EVAH! Currently 4-4 on aggregate, Barca ahead on away goals, cracking goal by Ronaldhino, and it's not even half time yet!

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Barca take the initiative with one of the cheekiest goals of the season.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

so they're actually showing this live in the US?! (it's on ESPN2, though i don't know if there are other americans reading this thread)

― ()ops (()()ps), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Is anyone actually watching the Man U v Milan game? Is it any good? It'll be having to go some to beat this.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Eh? Swapping shirts at half-time? What is this madness?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm watching the man utd game like a sucker :(

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Chelski/Barca is live in Canada. Manu/Milan on tape delay.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm flicking between games and the ManU game is like watching paint dry next to the wonderful chaos at the Bridge.
That said, both teams have hit the woodwork and Howard has surprisingly passed up two good chances to make an arse of himself. Maldini is running fairly freely considering he's got Ronaldo in his back pocket. Cafu still seems to have no idea what "full back" means.

Predictions:
ManU to sneak a goal but go out in extra time.
Stamford Bridge to explode or something.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The mister is in the other room watching someone on another cable channel so I can't watch the Man U game. I thought this would annoy me, and I would want to flick between them, but no, this one's doing me just fine.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

bad, bad mutterfukker :(

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Goooaaallllllll, John Terry.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Terry puts Chelsea 4-2 up! Pathetic appeals for a foul on the keeper. Missed chances galore. Everyone shooting on sight. I love games like this...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, this one's worthy of any goddamn "final"

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

ehm, does anyone else think that peter cech looks a bit like the young al bundy?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

What a cracker, and in other news Man U go out. I look forward to hearing Dr C's match report.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Belting game, also I win money off my colleague as he bet me that all the English teams would go out this week.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Not quite as good as the first half but a brilliant game.

Frank Rijkaard was spitting the dummy out and fighting with officials - what was he saying about sore losers complaining again?

Sneaky elbow from 'not good enough for Rangers' Gattuso looks to have made the difference in the other tie.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Hang on, pathetic appeals? That was practically an ARMDRAG TAKEDOWN.

Venables' perfunctory gestures towards pronouncing foreign names correctly is irritating.

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman v1.0 (Ferg), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

are irritating.

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman v1.0 (Ferg), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Lyon 7 - Werder Bremen 2

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Fucking hell.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Although Glen Johnson's astonishing moment of dithering in the second half almost put the game before them. Terry and Carvalho (and later, Huth) were HUGE at the back despite wave after wave of Barcelona attack.

Still, football doesn't get much better than that. Ronaldinho didn't look happy at the end, did he?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

He almost managed to stop smiling.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the referee was influenced in this game

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, he can take comfort from a good Oscar ceremony.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

But seriously though... that goal. Christ.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

A bad way to win, with a foul. But a great game.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

He almost managed to stop smiling.

hahaha...

Great game. But Mourinho, whadda guy, the bad-guy-you-want-to-win isn't he? Those diva kisses as he left the pitch. Priceless.

― Omar (Omar), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I predicted United to draw 1-1 or lose 1-0 and go out, Chelsea to sneak through (but it never crossed my mind they'd go 3-0 up in 20 minutes). I also predicted Liverpool to lose but still go through and Arsenal to win or draw but still get knocked out.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Xpost to Ailsa- Ronaldinho and Ferreira were swapping shirts because the Chels boy knew he wouldn't still be on at the end to do it. Did anyone spot if Mr Ugly Friendly swapped again at the final whistle- two shirts in a game might have been the sort of CL first the commentators rabbit on about. A ridiculously great game though.
Also my dad described John Terry as 'colossal', quite the most surprising thing he's said since he acclaimed Tiger Woods on winning his first major with the words 'he's doing a marvellous job for the black nation'. Which is not what retired rural headmasters ever say, ever.

― snotty moore, Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i thnk winning with a foul made it even sweeter considering chelsea were comfortable in the first leg before a dubious sending off and today barcelona were given a penalty which never looked remotely like a penalty. seeing ronaldihno with tears in his eyes and rijkaard tryin to swing made me so very happy. take that you cunts!

plus cole had a good game which pleased me

― l..., Tuesday, 8 March 2005 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

defining moment of united milan game: milan coasting through at 2-0 agg, tempers fray between ronaldo and cafu, ronaldo snarls and barges into cafu. the brazilian just stands back and grins.

cool-headed experienced fellows completely unruffled and unimpressed by new kids on the block throwing their weight around. seen it all before.

gattuso incredible. snarling, biting, but some incredible footwork as well, at times.

cafu was delightful. he's plays like roberto carlos' fans say roberto carlos plays, except on the opposite flank.

to be honest - it was not just man utds new kids on the block that were humbled - keane, scholes, giggs, van nistlerooy - all looked thoroughly ordinary.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

chelsea barcelona game? i saw the highlights, but i knew the score before i saw them.

what can i say? seemed like a tremendous game. ronaldinho's goal was impressive.

no-one impresses me more than john terry, though. he is superhuman.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

an awesome spectacle. one of the classic European encounters. Lampard, Terry, COLE and Cech all fantastic. pure genius from Ronaldinho, but how Eto'o didn't score is a mystery. Chelsea as 'fortunate' as Barca were in the first game re Carvalho incident - i guess that's evens then.

Chelsea to lose to Real in the semi or final tho.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

oh it was fantastic.

ronaldinho's goal, one of the finest.

of all goals.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Van N isn't ready - he looks unfit and rusty. Since he's come back we've had two defeats without scoring, a 0-0 draw against ten men trying to avoid relegation, and a very scrappy, unconvincing 2-1 win against a Portsmouth team in freefall. It was better when he was out - loads of goals from attacking midfielders who kept swapping positions. Now it's just one man up front who can't shoot. (Obviously he'll be great again in a fortnight)

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. Yes! YES! YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

FUCKING YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Well I was there folks, I was there. BEST. GAME. EVER. Mighty, mighty performance all round. How great was Petr Cech? They could have scored another 3 or 4 if not for him. Everyone was magnificent, even Huth at the end, even Kezmanoffside (what a pass for Eidar's goal). Lampard - superhuman strength and fitness. Terry - refused to lose, my favourite fooballer ever. Cole - can still improve, but his best game for us yet. Maka - calmness personified, he even *went in opposition half* - did you see what he did?

I have to say that Barce were fantastic. They scared the shit out of me in the second half - Eto'o is SO fast, and THAT goal by rabbit-teeth. OMG - how did he do that. One minute he had the ball on the edge of the box, the next my mate AJ turns to me and said quietly 'it's in the fucking net, how did that happen?' There was a second or two where virtually the whole crowd did a wtf double take as Ronaldinho turned away to celebrate.

Winning with a foul - do me a favour. No chance. These clown goalies don't like it up 'em.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Makalele did very well indeed in holding off Ronaldinho on a couple of occasions. Also Lampard's free kick was an absolute screamer, shame it didn't go in.

I think Huth looks a decent centre back. Maybe not top quality material, but useful nonetheless.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Well they played into our hands to some extent for the last 10 minutes by lofting balls forward to the edge of the box. Huth, Terry and Carvalho had no trouble dealing with those. If they could have tried to run at us it might have been different.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

can't agree with Dr C more, and i'm not a Chelsea fan

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 10:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Why couldn't Collina referee England-Portgual in Euro 04. Sob sob sob...

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)

or indeed Frisk. he might've sent off Rui Costa just for bumping into Sol or something.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Petr Cech! Petr Cech! Petr Cech! He nearly saved the bloody penalty too!

Glen Johnson was crap though.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

luckily so was Eto'o

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 11:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Larsson would have scored from that far out.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

ihttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40905000/jpg/_40905415_collina203.jpg

"Take it to the Bridge!"

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

What a boyband they could have been.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

That photo is astonishing.

The One Tun was showing the Arsenal game in a TV directly facing the front window last night. There were people standing five-deep in the street watching the Gooners try and hoof it up to the big lad during stoppage time. It was beautiful.

Juve v Real going to extra time was great. I was really holding out for penalties though.

Bit of a canter for Liverpool really, wasn't it?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 March 2005 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

It would be quite funny if Liverpool won it.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Thursday, 10 March 2005 10:08 (twenty-one years ago)

It would be quite funny if Liverpool won it.

And Everton finished 4th in the Premiership? Tragi-comic, I suppose. (England only get four spots in the CL regardless, AFAIK).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 10:22 (twenty-one years ago)

surely they'd get 5 in that scenario?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

no they wouldnt. happened to zaragoza, finishing 4th and not getting the 4th CL spot (went to madrid who won it the previous year)

― charlton lido (gareth), Thursday, 10 March 2005 10:58 (twenty-one years ago)

That would be very harsh indeed on Everton, I must say. Especially as Chelsea are genuine contenders. I think Milan will win the thing though.

I still think its amazing, considering that at the start of this season most Everton fans were braced for a relegation battle at best.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 March 2005 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

that bit where they hit the post

http://www.base58.com/pics/myphotos/misc/05/chelseahitpost.jpg

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 11:11 (twenty-one years ago)

(Actually, I *really* don't want Chelsea to win the Champions League now. I think I'm still holding onto the vague belief that Spurs might finish sixth and get that extra UEFA slot)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 March 2005 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

bastard!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 10 March 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

After our massive flop against Blackburn (on the back of our classiest sans-Gravesen performance at Villa) I fear that L'pool will ultimately reel us in anyway, irrespective of what actually happens in the Anfield derby. Of course we could do what Coe and Ovett did in that 1500m final in the late 70s and spend so much time looking at each other that some bearded East German (Middlesbrough) sneaks through and takes the prize.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

has Wanderley Luxembourg been sacked yet?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

middlesborough are floundering themselves though?

surely the bearded east german is called el hadji diouf!

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I keep thinking that Bolton will find some way of fucking it up but its looking less and less likely. Agreed that Boro are floundering.

Actually, surely winning the CL doesn't mean automatic qualification for the following year? So maybe whether or not Chelsea win is irrelevent.

I don't understand, suddenly. Are we talking special dispensation for the unlikely event of Liverpool finishing 5th and still winning the Champions League?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, thats what is being discussed

which is, i believe what happened with zaragoza and madrid. and zaragoza didnt get the 5th cl spot, because there wasnt one?

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

ManYoo haven't prospered since the second group phase was done away with, have they? I mean, you could see them progressing from a group which included, say, Milan, Eindhoven and Werder Bremen just as Liverpool might finish third in a group with Juve, Leverkusen and Lyon. Rafa seems to get his boys to peak very well for the knockout stuff (see: the Olympiakos game - after one good performance and four tepid ones, they really got stuck in in the game that really mattered).

Matt DC: CL winners qualify for the next season's comp - this does not increase the number of clubs from that nation who can play in it. Ergo, Lpool finish 5th, win CL - English CL 05-06 qualifiers are Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U and Lpool. Everton plus 6th place plus FA Cup winners go into UEFA Cup.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, surely winning the CL doesn't mean automatic qualification for the following year?

what, I did understand now I'm confused, of course it does!

so if Pool win and come 5th, Everton presuming they come 4th don't get through, and the place goes by default to Porto? And then on to another Portugese team?

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

What are you talking about, Ronan? Porto?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

no team has ever won the Champions League without failing to qualify by default through their final domestic league placing

have they?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that double negative deliberate, SteveM? Now I'm confused.

It occurs to me that perhaps Ronan means Portugal are behind England in the UEFA coefficients table and so get an extra league place (as Lpool would now fill the 'defending champs' spot and there'd be an extra spot up for grabs based on national qualification. Or something.) I should actually research this.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

BBC Sport disagrees with Ronan and Mike

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i write bad

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

No I meant; didn't gareth say Real Madrid got the place in Spain when this happened, because they had won the year before?

no they wouldnt. happened to zaragoza, finishing 4th and not getting the 4th CL spot (went to madrid who won it the previous year)

So by this Porto would be given the spot? Or another Portugese team if Porto were to be in a CL spot already which presumably they are.

I didn't know it went to the holders from the previous year, until Gareth said.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

UEFA Champions League Entrants 2000-01

UEFA regulations stipulate that no country may have more than 4 entrants in the UEFA Champions League. Since the 1999-2000 winners, Real Madrid, had not already qualified for the 2000-01 competition via the Spanish League, only three Spanish teams qualify via league placings and consequently Real Zaragoza who would normally have been eligible for the UEFA Champions League will play in the UEFA Cup instead.

― ilkley lido (gareth), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

so Real won it without managing to qualify otherwise, extraordinary

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

From the UEFA regulations:

Places in the UEFA Champions League are allocated as follows:
a) 3 associations with 4 participants each,
b) 3 associations with 3 participants each,
c) 9 associations with 2 participants each,
d) remaining associations with 1 participant each,
plus
e) the title-holders, if they do not qualify for the UEFA Champions League
via their top domestic league championship, and if the UEFA
Administration admits the club in question to the UEFA Champions
League at the request of its national association (see Article 1 of the
UEFA Champions League regulations).

So, the BBC's right - defending champs get to defend their title when finishing outside their national qualification places if their FA requests it. The FA better not friggin' request it.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I presume/hope the FA request it.

However we are all really going ott in thinking Liverpool might win this, imagine what Barcelona would do to Liverpool's defence. Imagine Liverpool trying to score against Milan or Chelsea.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, it must be said that Liverpool overhauling Everton and getting the 4th spot is considerably more likely than Liverpool winning the Champions League.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Imagine Liverpool trying to score against Milan or Chelsea

especially in the first minute?

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think they will do either though, i don't fancy Liverpool's chances against any of the seven other teams (whether Porto or Inter become that final team) - they would probably be complacent against PSV and Lyon, and don't seem stronger than any of the others but stranger things have happened.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I think we're going OTT thinking Everton will hold onto 4th too. (xpost)

Liverpool could do to Chelsea what Chelsea did to Arsenal last season - lose to them narrowly three times in domestic competition and then kill their Euro hopes.

That Real Madrid were granted a place in the CL at Zaragoza's expense is not surprising considering the stature and influence of RM in their league. It would be kinda interesting to see what the FA would do. Perhaps we could play alternate legs, like in foursomes golf.

There were no such restrictions on national numbers back in the days of the 'proper' European Cup, of course - Liverpool & Nottm For, Liverpool & Villa played in the same comp. Forest beat Lpool in the first round in 78-79, of course.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Liverpool could do to Chelsea what Chelsea did to Arsenal last season - lose to them narrowly three times in domestic competition and then kill their Euro hopes.

maybe but the gap seems that little bit wider, and as you know there's only a 1 in 8 chance of them meeting as it stands. Chelsea must be favourites to win now (tho Milan would be right behind if so) - been a while since a coach RETAINED the trophy hasn't it?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

It wouldn't be Brian Clough in 1980, would it?

The UEFA Coefficients business is kinda convolutedly fascinatin':
http://www.geocities.com/jfaugeras/UC200304.html

Turns out the coefficients table updated at the end of 2003-04 determines the seedings for 2004-05 and the berth allocation for 2005-06 (i.e. we already know how many places England, Spain, etc will get for next season's competition but the seedings will be determined by what [additionally] happens this season).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

This is regulatory fannydangle of the highest order. Either the winner should automatically qualify or not. As it stands then UEFA is effectively asking the FA to publically favour one bitter rival or another. Madness.

A Liverpool v Everton playoff would be magical.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

well the World Cup winner doesn't qualify automatically anymore so perhaps the Champions League winner shouldn't either?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah fuck it, Liverton will play in it next year, at the shared Everpool Stadium

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Liverpool have the talismanic Whatsisface.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

UEFA's whole berth allocation system rests on there being fixed numbers of entrants from individual countries. If England got five places next year, someone else would miss out. As it stands, it would mean EFC (or LFC) got the Polish champions' spot in the 3rd qualifying round, this would in turn knock the Slovenian champs back from the 2nd qr to the 1st and the Faroese champs would have to make do with the UEFA Cup. God knows whose place they'd be taking in that competition. Perhaps Tottenham.

This raises an additional question: having been nominated by their national association ahead of the 4th placed team, where do the CL winners-but-not-really-qualifiers enter the comp? 3rd qr or group stage? And who cares?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

is it possible to be both a talisman AND a journeyman?

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I watched Michael write that post. The tension was unbearable.

I say FUCK THE FAROES!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

but beware the curse

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

*larfs out So loud that the table his 'puter rests on starts S-S-S-S-S-S-HAK-K-K-K-K-K-ING un-absolute-controlla-not-bly*

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 10 March 2005 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel that Chelsea's winner should not have been allowed. (Sorry, Doc.)

I was sad but unsurprised to see United fail to get past Milan. I am glad to see that Arsenal have not progressed.

Congratulations to followers of Liverpool FC on what looks a tremendous result. You're the... the ... Lyon of the North.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 10 March 2005 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

We met J03 C0le last night. Outside of the Spearmint Rhino, he was about to go in, to celebrate the exciting win, with boobs. My work colleague shook his hand and said "well done last night", he said "thanks".

He is fairly skinny.. I always imagined premiership football players to be athletic looking.

Then we told a girl colleague who had a camera to take a photo, she did, Joe's mates were a little upset by that. She didn't get the S.R. logo in the shot, though. So no money from The Sun this morning.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 10 March 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If the winners went in instead of the 4th placed, I'd have thought for the same reasons that there are only 4, they would go in where that country's 4th placed team would have gone in.

I wonder if Everton would sue the FA for lost revenue?

Have you noticed that Man Yoo have only won one two-legged tie since 1999? Apart from beating Depor in 2002 in the QF, they've lost the first two-legged tie they've played since they won it.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 10 March 2005 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely the most honorable way to defend a title is to earn a place in the competition again. Automatic re-qualification for the winners is lame.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(Haven't ManYoo won a coupla qualifying round two-leggers since then? After finishing 3rd in 2001-02 and 2003-04?)

I'm hoping the FA will say, "You know what? You Blues missed out on the European Cup in 85-86 and 87-88 so you can have a jolly good go this time!" And everyone will cheer and there'll be ice cream and balloons.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Woah?! Yours FA really is a ...bag of ...jollity!

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 10 March 2005 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

2000 - Lost to Real Madrid in the QF, after 2nd gp stage
2001 - Lost to Bayern Munchen in the QF, after 2nd gp stage
2002 - Lost to Bayer Leverkusen in the SF, after 2nd gp stage
2003 - Lost to Real Madrid in the QF, after 2nd gp stage
2004 - Lost to Porto in 2nd rd, after 1st gp stage
2005 - Lost to Milan in 2nd rd, after 1st gp stage

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 10 March 2005 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

This whole Liverpool v Everton 4th CL place FITE is a news story on Teletext now.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 10 March 2005 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael Jones is a lovely visionary

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Thursday, 10 March 2005 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

It's also rubbage. It needs Liverpool to win the CL. I will run naked through Liverpool if this happens. I can see them beating Chelsea over two legs, but that's it.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 10 March 2005 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's another oh-bugger scenario: UEFA Cup winners who finish outside of their national criteria for UEFA qualification can defend their trophy too, again at the discretion of their national association and again without increasing their national allocation of berths. So if M'boro (7th?) or Newcastle (9th?) win the UEFA, tough luck on whoever finishes 6th. Unless I'm wrong.

Being a Bitter Blue I also recall other occasions when Liverpool stiffed us on Euro spots (admittedly by being better than us) cos the old rules of the UEFA Cup (a hangover from when it was the Inter-City Fairs Cup) dictated that only one club from each city could compete. So if the Reds were 3rd and we were 4th - hard cheese, it would go to Stoke City or whoever in 5th. We had a good moan about it in '75 and got the rule changed and, of course, got dumped out by Inter Milan in round one.

If Liverpool win the CL I don't think anyone in the city will notice Dave B's nakedness.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

It's quite some city you have there, juding by your posts! Do you get snow in winter? And minus temperatures? Well, I pray Dave B won't do too much harm to his health, if the opportunity should knock.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Move to Scotland. It's simpler here. Champions League = Celtic or Rangers. Scottish Cup losers (assuming Old Firm champion) and third in league go into UEFA, and this is the best bit, WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING IT!

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Celtic or Rangers OR BOTH, that should say.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

the weather will be pretty warm by the time Champion's League is over anyway.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

OK. I'll run naked painted in blue.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE DRAW
Quarter-finals:
LIVERPOOL v Juventus
AC Milan v Inter Milan
Lyon v PSV
CHELSEA v Bayern Munich

1st legs 5/6 Apr; 2nd legs 12/13 Apr

Semi-finals:
CHELSEA/Bayern v LIVERPOOL/Juventus
Lyon/PSV v Milan/Inter

1st legs 26/27 Apr; 2nd legs 3/4 May

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Friday, 18 March 2005 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooh, that's a good'un.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 18 March 2005 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

glad to see the Milan derby came up. Liverpool COULD beat Juve but seems unlikely, Chelsea ought to be confident enough. GO LYON!

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Friday, 18 March 2005 11:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh dear - can see the away leg in Turin being no away fans, what with it being the first time they've played since heysel. And Juve Ultras still have banners saying 'Hillsborough was our revenge'. K-blimey.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 18 March 2005 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

They'll have to use big letters though the delle alpi is about 3 miles across.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 18 March 2005 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

A pity Liverpool didn't draw Chelsea would have been great for them to do what Chelsea did to Arsenal last year. Lyon v PSV? Heads will roll at UEFA...

― My Son Calls Another Man Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 18 March 2005 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

A pity Liverpool didn't draw Chelsea would have been great for them to do what Chelsea did to Arsenal last year.

There's always the semi!

― Venga, Friday, 18 March 2005 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there'll be carnage in Turin. If I was a Liverpool fan I would definitely avoid that one.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Friday, 18 March 2005 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

Good start for Liverpool. Juve can't get going.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Holy shit 2-0! Peach of a strike.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

CAAAAAHH ORRRRRR YOOOOOO REEEEEEHS

i'm sure Juve will score but surely no more than 2

― Sven Basted (blueski), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

luis garcia!!!

blimey i hope the p@rkins0n-br0wns have found somewhere to watch this in dallas (i'm pretty certain chris will have insisted on it ;))

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

whenever Chris is in America, Liverpool are fantastic

― Sven Basted (blueski), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Two great chances for Juve, one off the post and one saved. This is a great game.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Porca miseria! Che cosa sta succendo? I'm not going to get to see the replay tonight but WTF, Liverpool up 2-0 in the delle Alpi w/in 25 minutes?

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It's at Anfield. But still...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It's also rubbage. It needs Liverpool to win the CL. I will run naked through Liverpool if this happens.

Getting worried yet ~~people of Liverpool~~ Dave?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Terrible Venables has finally completely fucking lost it.

"It's not a high tempo. It's a SPEED tempo."

"I'll tell you something. It's got bend, it's got swerve, whatever you want to name, it's got it."

And I missed the first half, but judging by Juventus' very good chances (and possible wrongly disallowed goal), it doesn't seem like they were 'completely dominated' as Townsend was making out. Am I wrong? Second half.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Juve had their fair share of chances. Liverpool looking a bit leggy now after running their socks off in the 1st half.

Trezeguet on now...

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Poor goalkeeping. 2-1

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

we don't have espn world or anything here so I didn't get to see it,. instead relying on the Hopkins sportext service while we raomed the Fort Worth modern art museum and browsed great tat stores round sundance square.

I am now off to see whether any of the channels on the Smithson tv have highlights

― ceebee, Tuesday, 5 April 2005 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

When it happens, it's really something just how much Liverpool's style of play has changed under Benitez, the passing can be so good.

Shame about Carson's mistake but it's still a good result. I just hope it isn't a total shut-out second leg. Some of the free-kicks second half were very disappointing, corners too.

Brilliant match though. Garcia's goal and that first half hour are high points of the season really.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah Ally C otm about Venables! Was he drunk? "he's hit that ball, KAPOW!"

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I found myself promising to streak at the AFC Wimbledon game this weekend (if we came back from 3-0 down to win). I think I might have a problem. I once threatened to run onto the pitch at Sixfields and kiss Ian Atkins stark naked if Northampton Town beat West Ham over 2 legs in the 1997 (or was it 98?) League Cup. They did, and I bottled it.

I think that the people of Liverpool are safe therefore, as Liverpool won't win it, and I'll be a coward if they do. Hurray!

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 5 April 2005 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

My favourite Venables momement: "Liverpool have out-physicaled them."

Probably fair that The Old Lady got a goal after having that header disallowed (although I think the whistle had already gone before he headed it and Carson would have made more of an effort to get to the ball if it hadn't). And a little disappointing after the superb first half an hour.

But I think Juve smacked of arrogance a little in not chasing a second goal more thoroughly. They seemed content to play for a 1-0 at home - and few are better at playing for that result. But I think LFC look more than capable of scoring against them again. Plus, with a bit of a luck, next week might see the return of the mighty:

http://www.gbposters.com/images/b2bproducts/SP0260-480px.jpg

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I do have a horrible feeling about Liverpool in this competition (Del Piero's disallowed header not quite = Roma's penalty-oh-no-sorry-something-else in the 2000-01 UEFA; yes, the whistle had gone but Carson's positioning wasn't great and I doubt he could've reached such a peachy looper).

Liked Stevie G's smiling comment afterwards: "They've got to beat us now and...it's not easy to beat Liverpool." Yes, only 16 defeats in all competitions this season. Doubled by Birmingham City, beaten at Anfield by Graz...

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Xabi's xinpads are wonky. He'll have to sort that out. He is "doing Bez" on the left. And Karl Denver in the middle. Of course, he has considerable Champions League experience with the Real Sociedad.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Including against Juventus, I think.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I have an inbuilt dislike of Liverpool, but whenever I've seen them this season (domestic or in europe) they've been amazing. I predict Juve winning on penalities.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Blimey, Johnney - could you stop watching Liverpool games for me? You're clearly some kind of antijinx. They were pretty far from amazing during the middle four of their group stage matches when they only scored through a Deportivo OG. (Though this is partly what gives me the fear; I can't quite believe they're still in it.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:51 (twenty-one years ago)

when you consider the injuries and some of the players playing, it is kind of unbelievable!

I mean, the likes of Traore, he may not be someone you want in the team for years to come, but he fits into a passing mobile team so much better than Houllier's bruisers.

Also am I the only one who thinks Nunez is starting to look useful?

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

My bet on Lyon at 17-1 is looking a slightly less sound investment after last night. They should be able to get a goal or two in Eindhoven, though. Is the semifinal draw pre-determined? If so, who gets who?

― Adam Faithless (Adam Faithless), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Lyon/PSV will play one of the Milans

― Sven Basted (blueski), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

*Prays for Lyon-Bayern final*

― Adam Faithless (Adam Faithless), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:33 (twenty-one years ago)

2 great goals from Lampard. Ballack's cheating took the shine off a good win in injury time. Still fancy Chelsea to take the tie.

Meeeeelan with a good 2-0 victory over Inter, looked a poor game from what little I saw.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i missed the game tonight because i was in a pub with no tv. fuck that, and fuck the idiots who selected that pub and refused to move to a different one.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Why didn't you just move on alone?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I t would seem thatthere was a bugged benny hat on the Chelsea bench and evil Jose was talking to it from out of space.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Having been in a pub full of Chelsea fans last night they have now officially replaced Liverpool fans as my least favourite English football fans

― Dadrock, Meshach and Abednego (Dada), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

They "pretend threatened" us in the last round. Fortunately big tough Jerry the Nipper was leading the way and they had to back down. And this was in uber-rough Covent Garden. Then they chased us all the way to the Poetry Cafe and we had to calm them down with soothing verse.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

why does Lizarazu wear the number 69?

Does neighbourhoodies manufacture his shirt?

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Chelsea are deflecting their way to the semis in a dull as dish water tie. The referee doesn't seem to like this tackling lark.

Mourinho "left the stadium because he was unhappy with his allocated seat" - i.e. he was near a UEFA official and couldn't make phone calls to Woolly Hat Guy.

Meeelan cruising through.

(Lizarazu was born in '69)

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Meeelan bonkers.

― Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw Milan fans do exactly the same thing to Rossi towards the end of a disappointing season a few years ago (97/98?), except he didn't get hit.

― Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Guys, are you missing the fun? Our friendly pundits are pondering how on earth they got the flares into the ground (er, the same way they get them in every week) and why no coppers were doing anything (because the only 'policing' in the curvas is done by a couple of doddery old chaps in fluorescent tabards).

― Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Good lord, they're restarting.

― Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

What a silly idea that was.

― Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

apparently the game will be awarded to AC.

Bayern v Chelsea last 10 minutes very odd - great header from Drogba but i suppose at 89 minutes they just accepted it was over then conceded two more sloppy goals. So Bayern have scored more goals against Chelsea in a week than some teams have managed in two seasons.

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41026000/jpg/_41026897_dida.jpg

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200405/story/0,15008,1458483,00.html

James Richardson on the power wielded by the ultras in Italian football.

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

When I went to see Milan vs. Fiorentina in December, it was the first time I'd ever had my seat number checked against my ticket. The Ultras were protesting at that match too, against Sky TV's deal. It was rather more peaceful though - the whole of the Curva Blu was empty until five minutes after kick off, when everyone returned to their seats. It wasn't the first time I'd seen that either.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do UEFA tolerate this?

Meanwhile, finally a penalty shootout in a CL knockout match (bar the final). I'd love it if PSV turned over Milan.

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do the BBC tolerate such a badly written article?

Apparently the whole of the Fulham Road was at a standstill this morning as fans queued for tickets for the SF.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I just make my joke here:

A premiership semi? That'll be what's in Clive Tyldesley's trousers.

It'll be good. It will not prove that the premiership is teh best league in the world, like some are already crowing.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

No but it is ;)

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I really want to watch Real Madrid v Barcelona from last week though

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Best League in the world my arse

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I went to watch 'The Acquatic Life with Steve Zissou' last Sunday instead of watching Real v Barca. Bad move on both counts (in hindsight).

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:07 (twenty-one years ago)

How come we're second in the 1999-2004 UEFA Coefficients table - ahead of Italy, Germany, France and Portugal - if we're so poor at making the latter stages? We haven't done much in the UEFA Cup either (Liverpool's win, Leeds and Newcastle making the semis, that's it).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget Arsenal's final appearance in 2000.

I think there's a difference between clubs performance in the Champions League and the quality of the domestic leagues in which they play though. Spain, England and Italy are all about the same in terms of 'predictability' re who is up there at the end of the season. If you're talking about average quality of football then I don't know, the Premiership offers thrills n' spills as good as anywhere surely, plus with the added bonus of what seems like far fewer problems with crowd trouble, racism etc.

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, yes - forgot about the penalty loss to Galahasseelassie.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus Chelsea won it in '98 didn't they?

Anyway, no Spanish teams even in the Quarter-finals for the first time since when? Even though English clubs record of semi and final appearances is poor they have had at least one club in the last eight every season since...?

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

And is about 3 or 4 times the price of all of them. Lucky old us!

Mike - the co-efficient also includes England's performances, and a lot of jiggery pokery which is a mathematical representation of the expression 'ITV and Sky pay more than anyone in Europe for the CL and UK TV audiences are the ebst in the continent'.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Chelsea win (actually ECWC) was before the coefficient period which dictates current standings.

Dave: right, this all makes lovely sense now.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 14 April 2005 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The co-efficients are based on the last 5 years. Winning and/or qualifying from groups gets you lots of points, getting through knockout stages doesn't actually gather that many more. Having four teams every year to earn those points helps. England have always had at least one 1/4 finalist.

Germany only have one club with any consistency, as do Portugal. Italy have had two very bad years out of the five being counted.

Scotland were 9th in the 2000-2004 table despite the Old Firm's inability to get out of (or sometimes into) a Champions League group.

The system seems flawed. I think it's being changed.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

That's the danger though - by 'club with consistency' we mean 'qualifies every year and builds virtuous circle of dominance'; the ability of certain clubs to become CL regulars has made them, well, CL regulars and closed down the compettiveness of domestic leagues.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Having four teams every year to earn those points helps

Should have mentioned, the points each club from a nation earn are added together then divided by the number of teams. I just think this gives you a better chance of getting teams into the latter stages, particularly as they can't play each other in the groups.

It also goes without saying that a higher coefficient leads to seeding which leads to easier matches which leads to a higher coefficient etc.

xpost + Dave B OTM

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I think England's high standing may be a reflection of the quality of its lower leagues, which are total pish in Spain.

However, I may be wrong.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

'quality'

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

If you excuse the last 2 seasons, Man Utd have nearly always reached the quarter finals, despite all the hate for them they almost single handedly got England the 4 Champions Lreague spots instead of 3. You also get the odd season when this consistency is supported by a run like Leeds or Liverpool to the semi's and a a english club always has a decent run in the UEFA cup. Also, Spanish clubs usually dominate for a few years then fade away like they have this year, English clubs just move along at a steady pace rather than having boom and bust periods

― azob (azob), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Relative quality, then.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I unpick that post in the nicest possible way?

You say 'usually' as if there's a trend. To do trend analysis, you need to have time passing. The Cl has followed three, perhaps four stages - 1992-98, when it was the Champeens, then 98-00 when they allowed the second placed team, then 00-03 when they had two group stages, then now with one group stage. At different periods, different countries have been more dominant.

The key point you make is one of 'odd' seasons. It assumes a natural order that really isn't demonstrated by the record. Every year adds to the record, odd or otherwise, like layers of sediment. Then, just as we're starting to be able to see glimpses, there's an earthquake which shakes it all out again.

If anyone does stability over the whole period, it's the Germans. English clubs can be accused of many things, but stability isn't one of them - check the balance sheets. If you remove Chelsea 03- from the equation, the English record in the last two years isn't much cop at all. Two sparrows do not a summer make.

xpost - lower league quality - Walton were 'kin brilliant.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 14 April 2005 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd say it was because they have the lovely Scott Steele (ex-Woking), but he was subbed on after 85 minutes so I don't think he can take much credit. I wouldn't know - we'd left by then :)

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a good point about the ''three stages'' of the champions league. Although from 92 - 98 Utd were the only English club getting into it, no club in Spain or Italy dominated their domestic league like this in this period so when English clubs who finish 3rd and 4th start coming into it they have no real experiance and do poorly. My point was Utd are the only consistent english club, backed up by one odd run from Chelsea, Liverpool, etc. There was a period when you had Valencia, Madrid and Deportivo consistently reach the semis for around 3 years in a row although Madrid were the only ones who ever won it. The Germans may be consistent but their hopes in the future will rest on Munich, i can't see Dortmund or Leverkusen ever reaching a semi or final again whereas we can only improve over the next 5 years although that is probably tempting fate.

― azob (azob), Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I really pick my times to take long flights don't I? I've only just realised I'm going to miss the Chelsea-Liverpool match completely (we're due to land at exactly the same time as the match ends). I hope it's 0-0...

― $V£N! (blueski), Monday, 25 April 2005 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Predictions for tonight?

I want Liverpool to win, but I reckon Chelsea will sneak through on away goals. Liverpool to take the lead in the first twenty minutes,
but then Chelsea to equalise with five minutes to go via a bizarre
own goal off Gerrard's head.

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it'll be even cagier than last week, with only a set-piece likely to yield a goal.

If it goes to pens I wonder if Stevie G will take one?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.dreamsalive.com/dre_img/DREAM.JPG

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

either 1-1 or 1-0 to chelsea.

how's your shorthand ronan? will you practising tonight, or watching tha game?

i plan to do both at the same time.

it won't go to pens, but stevie g *would* take one.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)

shorthand is a lost cause, maybe in August I'll pass it but as of today I know nothing and am working on my thesis.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

how about you?

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Chelsea will win comfortably, at a gallop, etc.

I hope I'm wrong, but.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Will Jerry be wearing his late-70s repro L'pool away-top tonight? Or is it already in the wash? I'll be wearing something Blue. (It might just be the expression on my face.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

No way was that over the line - but if it hadn't been given Cech would probably have been sent off. Chelsea are missing width like the deserts miss the rain.

― A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought it was probably over, but it looked a very close thing.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess we'll hear a lot about Chelsea's surprising creative limitations, given the insane amount of possession they are having in the attacking areas, but this is as titanic a defensive performance, from Hyppia and Carragher in particular, as I've seen in a long time. Obviously with Liverpool only half a goal ahead, it could easily change, but if Liverpool win this, I hope the focus is on them.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I am being reminded of Celtic against Barcelona in the Nou Camp earlier this year.

Liverpool's defence have been outstanding, and I hope I don't curse Dudek by saying he hasn't been as worryingly erratic as he has shown tendencies towards being for most of the season.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Something spectacular is going to happen at the last moment here...

― Masked Gazza, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

It needs Liverpool to win the CL. I will run naked through Liverpool if this happens

I was worried that at least one of the two pitch invasions was a pre-emptive strike by Dave B.

(hahaha, xpost - that would work!)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

And if I wonder why they ever let Drogba take free kicks, are we setting up a last minute winner by Drogba, from a free kick, with Dudek letting it roll under him? I hope not, or Chris and Stevie will hate me (but Dr C will love me).

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Shit, I thought that was in by Cisse which would have shut up all the "all Chelsea need to do..." commentary

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck, SIX added minutes!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

SIX MINUTES! WTF>!>

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

People of Liverpool, GET READY FOR BOYLER.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

TENSIONTASTIC!!!

― zappi (joni), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Awful. How in Catterick's name did Gudjohnson miss? Roof-of-the-net job, surely.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

fkn awesome! xp

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

*has felt weirdly liverpoodlian for the past couple of hours*
:)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

What a miss at the end there - I was sure that was going in.

I've already sent an email to Cabbage and Jerry The Nipper.

To be honest, I would think everyone will have Milan, assuming they hold on tomorrow, as favourites, but that was true of Juventus and Chelsea too. I really hope Liverpool can do it.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

What a crap time to get poxy-fuled!

Er, what you all said. I have really enjoyed Chelsea all season, but Liverpool, well, it's teh underdog, innit?

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

LIVERPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!11

― I AM A HAPPY SPURS FAN, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Well if you wanted any evidence that the game is corrupt there it is. 6 minutes. Personally I'm waiting for the doping scandal.

Outstanding stuff from all the spine of Liverpool's team (which was pretty much the whole side given how narrow Chelsea played). Bring on Istanbul.

― A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Good to see Jose gracious in defeat. I kind of wanted Chelsea to win, but I hope Liverpool do the business in Turkey. Murphy's victory in the snooker could be an omen for underdogs coming good.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

The outpouring of love for the Redshite on this thread is truly sickening. Where are the moderators when you need them?

(Oh, and I don't think 6 minutes is excessive considering we saw a complete set of substitutions, a few injuries and two idiots running down the pitch chased by the stewards).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Is someone going to quote all these "Wales won the grand slam, Prince Charles got married, so did Ken Barlow" stats again...

(answer: yes, every newspaper ever)

(xpost - Mike, never mind, they might not even *qualify* for the Champions League next year...)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

i wanted chelsea to win mike. mainly because i dont approve of a 5th/6th placed liverpool getting the CL spot ahead of a 4th place everton/bolton

― charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Haven't UEFA started to backpedal on that and are saying both can now enter if Liverpool win?

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, not only did Liverpool remind of me of Celtic's last season's heroics against Barcelona, Liverpool's entire run this season has reminded me of Celtic's journey to the UEFA Cup Final. Written off almost every step of the way, never looking spectacular, but always looking like they might just sneak through each game and maybe even win the whole damn thing if things go their way.

So, er, they'll lose in the final then.

(I didn't want Chelsea to win because I harbour a crappy and petty grudge against Mourinho for said UEFA Cup Final)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Crappy and petty grudges are the bedrock of football support, cherish and love them, don't feel ashamed of them.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

If AC don't stick at least three past Liverpool in the final, I'll be very surprised.

But, yes, well done and that.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I really hope that from this day on we wont have to hear English people complaining about how boring Italian teams are. EVER AGAIN.

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Tom,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4503437.stm

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Fanfuckingtastic

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, I'm not ashamed of my crappy and petty grudges at all. I'm a Celtic fan, it's what we do (apparently - what I really mean it's what *I* do, in all walks of life, and probably how I ended up a Celtic fan and not vice versa)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

: ) and also some tears! amazing!

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Amazing. Carragher and Hyppia were colossal today - all of Chelsea's big names frankly flat. On today's performance they didn't deserve to be in the final. Jonesey OTM re: the 6mins added time, by the way. Word from the Cabbageboy is that he had a tear in his eye as well.

Quality grace in defeat from Mourinho there.

"So, Jose, did the best team win?"
"No, the best team lost."

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

there is absolutely NO WAY there was 6 minutes injury time, those streakers were no more than one minute maximum time wasted, and the injuries were not lengthy delays either, there were very few stoppages.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

6 subs = 3 mins added time, so you don't need so much more with streakers and injuries. It surprised me, but I don't think it was far off. And of course it made no difference, in the end.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

congratulations liverpool fans. carragher is not so much a man, as a god.

i think milan will win the final by three clear goals. i hope i am not raining on anyone's parade by saying this.

if liverpool win, i hope both they and everton can compete in europe.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe someone should run a watch on a tape of the second half (or not, it didn't make any difference). Being the sort of sadsack who likes to do this sort of thing, I once timed the taped second half of Spain-Yugoslavia in Euro2000 (when Spain controversially scored twice in 6min i/t to win 4-3; hey - I wanted to watch it again anyway). The apparently excessive added time was spot on.

Johansson says a big bunch of nothing in that BBC article, doesn't he? When he was interviewed on the TV he gave the impression he didn't even know what had happened with Real Madrid and Real Zaragoza a few years ago. It's up to the FA; rumours abound that they've already decided it's the top four. Which, with a point at Highbury on Sunday and a win over Villa on the last day, will mean Liverpool on goal difference... :(

(I hate how much torment I put myself and people close to me through with this football nonsense, I really can't wait for 04-05 to be over in that sense; the frustration of Everton's defeat at Fulham was that victory this coming Saturday wouldn't clinch anything, we'd have to wait another 24 hours - the kicker tonight is that now the worry continues for another three weeks.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Could be worse, it's still possible Liverpool could win the final and Bolton finish 4th.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Sampadoria and Everton in the Champions League next year? What is this, the early 1980s?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

To be honest Mike, I know it will be bitterly disappointing after the season you've had, but you're likely to finish around ten places higher than last year, which would make this a magnificent season anyway. But I do think you will hold on to 4th, to be honest.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

thankyous:
hopkins, Maclean, Watson, Parkinson-Brown for taking mmy mind off it

Carragher for being a colossus

Garcia for being wonderful.

Big fuck you's to:

Mourinho
The absolute cunt who managed to steal Vicky's bag, purse, phone everything while we were watching it, in the very slight chance you're reading this I hope you die of cancer of the rectum

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41105000/jpg/_41105713_carra6666.jpg

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry to hear about Vicky's bag - that's awful. It was probably a Cockney Red trying to outScouse the Scousers.

I'll stop banging on about Everton now - this isn't the time or the place.

The best bit of last night was Stereolab's version of "Get Carter" running behind the halftime ITV1 competition. Did Tyldesley hold himself in check enough not to mention that He Was There the night Fairclough scored the late winner vs Saint Etienne in '77? One of his first assignments for Radio City - his voice was half an octave higher in those days.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 05:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Well done Liverpool - go on and win it! It went how I feared it might - we've had no gas in the tank for the last 3 or 4 weeks. It was always going to be difficult without Duff and Robben. Frank L is knackered too. Despite this, I think we gave it our best shot and did pretty well on the night. Terry was absolutely magnificent, as was Makelele. Our substitutions were pretty desperate - Robben was clearly not even half-fit and shouldn't have played, Kezmanoffside should be playing for Stockport County and sticking Huth upfront was pretty futile even though he held up the ball better than Drogba had done.

I'd like to see Carragher and Terry at the heart of England's defence in WC 2006. Campbell is past it now and is Ferdinand as good as these two? I think not.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)

and a win over Villa on the last day

They'll be lucky, China. NUN! NUN! NUN! NUN!

This thread has made me laugh out loud twice, and I never laugh out loud. Here are the things that made me laugh, just for the record:

The outpouring of love for the Redshite on this thread is truly sickening. Where are the moderators when you need them?

and:

It was always going to be difficult without Duff and Robben.

Sorry about the bag, Vicky. Heavy bummer.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Why did the Duff and Robben thing make you laugh, PJM?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

David Thomson, Jimmy Greaves, Dr C, Tim Lovejoy, Damon Albarn, Phil Daniels, David Mellor... Your boys took one hell of a beating.

Dave B. - your public awaits.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

did anyone see the post-match interview with Stevie G and Jamie Carragher. It nearly set off the tears again, Gerrard was like "what about this guy's performance eh? IMMENSE"

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

To cheer us all up (well, me) -

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:26 (twenty-one years ago)

..here's a Moomin book review on the Everton fanzine site...

http://everton.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=887&p=2&stid=8379983

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked when Carragher was basically speechless and Gerrard's arm came from out of shot to whack him on the head!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

we didn't get the post match sound in the pub, but watching jamie brush the tears of his face was such an emotional sight

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Becasue they'ver got a fifty billion zillion pound squad and think they have a divine right to success, i.e. they are the new Real Madrid, who I also enjoy seeing lose.

Yes, I know, no wide players.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Having out-argued myself over Chelsea/Mourinho/Abramovich and having come to the (belated) conculsion that my hatred of Mourinho has too much to do with the fact that his team beat my team in a football match once, I approached this game in a fairly neutral frame of my mind. Admittedly this might be related to the fact that I have never liked Liverpool or, more especially, their fans. So imagine my surprise to find myself punching the air and shouting "Yes! Ya fuckin' beauty!!!!!!!" come the 100th minute (or whenever it finished). The icing on the cake is Mourinho thinks he was robbed and he's moaning about Liverpool playing too defensively. So I was right after all, he is a cunt.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes Mourinho threw his toys out of the pram.

As the final whistle blew I may have taken my shirt off and ran up and down the street.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Where can I get body paint from?

Seriously though, I didn't see the game, so all what follows is misguided tosh, but on my reading of the incident, far from being a dodgy goal, Cech could have been sent off in the 4th minute.

To Jose Mourinho - that'll learn you for Seville.

To Abramovich - see that Liverpool crowd, their tradition, their passion? That's something you can't buy.

To Eidur Badjonsson.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Cech would have definitely been sent off

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:02 (twenty-one years ago)

**Becasue they've got a fifty billion zillion pound squad and think they have a divine right to success**

Oh. Maybe the manager does, but who else?

**To Abramovich - see that Liverpool crowd, their tradition, their passion? That's something you can't buy.**

I wondered when we'd get the 'noble scousers' speech. Jesus.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I wondered when we'd get the 'noble scousers' speech. Jesus.

... indeed, my joy at seeing Mourinho suffer is tempered somewhat by the knowledge that we'll have to put up with all the usual Liverpool shite for the next 2 decades

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I never said noble. Just that most reports are attributing _some_ of the credit to the crowd, and that's something you can't actually buy and given the club's attitude has been to try and buy everything to get success, I think it's brilliant when football bites such ambition on the bum.

Liverpool hate is so 80s. If we're getting into it, the majority didn't fancy ill-gotten foreign money pumped into their club.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Fair point, Doc. I was just being childish, which seems appropriate. No offence nor nothing.

There was a bit of anti-Drogba talk on the train this morning.

Does noble Scousers apply to non-Scouser Liverpool fans? They don't half get on my nerves with their cracker, la, sound as a pound Stevenage cobblers.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

crowd were shit. not a patch on stamford bridge in the good old days.
oh, and fuck tradition in the ear. champions league is just a glorified uefa cup these days anyway...

Dr C: drogba red card/ballack dive/liverpool dodgy goal. ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

i jest of course. liverpool were great and really deserved that. the final against milan will be a real thriller i bet!

― Pete W (peterw), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Liverpool hate is so 80s.

No, Liverpool is so 80s - well until the advent of the wonderful Mr. Benitez. Personal experience from having met Liverpool fans and seeing them in action leads me to not look too fondly on their football team.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I tend not to judge a team on the basis of the few people I meet supporting them, or else I think Chelsea were a bunch of racist drunken arseholes as evidenced by most Saturday nights on Wimbledon Broadway.

The point isn't that the crowd weren't a patch on the Bridge in the good old days, but rather that the crowd at the Bridge in the modern shiny new days wasn't the same as at Anfield. I dare say most Liverpool fans would say it's just not the same anymore either.

And as for being a glorified UEFA Cup - top, top top quality sour grapes.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i know. it's bitter. i was feeling okay this morning but all the crowing scousers upset me a little.

i;m right about the uefa cup thing though.

― Pete W (peterw), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, if they do win it, it'll stop Liverpool fans jibes at Man Utd that their 99 victory was less legitimate than their 4.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:44 (twenty-one years ago)

**given the club's attitude has been to try and buy everything to get success**

As anyone would do. And has, albeit with smaller budgets.

I've said many times that I don't like the Abramovic money, but it's hardly ruining British football. We just got different champions this year.

I'm not getting into Liverpool hate - but they don't have a monopoly on passion and tradition etc

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I tend not to judge a team on the basis of the few people I meet supporting them

Ha! If I judged Liverpool on the basis of the Kopites I know I'd barely be able to muster any hatred for them. (Un)Fortunately it's not something I have to think about - the loathing is woven into my DNA.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 10:27 (twenty-one years ago)

It's true: if you cut Mike he bleeds toffee.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 10:31 (twenty-one years ago)

(except Athletic Bilbao)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

JtN is right - you should see my cholesterol rating.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i almost had a tear in my eye myself as the whistle blew and people around me in red shirts started bawling. the best thing being that it was only 4.30pm in Manhattan so about 10 more hours drinking time. alas i had to fly back to this rubbish country. Bravo Liverpool - obviously would love them to win it (would've loved to see Chelsea do it too tho to be honest, regardless of rockist nobility issues) and writing them off every time against big Euro Oppo just seems to work a treat so 4-0 to Milan clearly...

― $V£N! (blueski), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Does noble Scousers apply to non-Scouser Liverpool fans? They don't half get on my nerves with their cracker, la, sound as a pound Stevenage cobblers.

That is funny!

Tom E and Ronan OTM on Carragher / Gerrard interview: that was lovely. I seem to find Gerrard very attractive - maybe that helps.

I didn't think Liverpool could do it. It seemed clear to me a) that they needed another goal, for Chelsea would equalize, and b) that their players were, are, just not good enough. I guess I was wrong; but I still don't rate many of those players. Even last night, Kewell couldn't manage a short corner, and Garcia et al look feeble. It was a fine defensive show, though. I was overjoyed at the result. For me, it is one of the happiest results of the season.

― the blissfox, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i am bad. i wanted liverpool to win because i felt they have a better chance of losing in the final.

and i really wanted to see mourinho being a sore loser. bless his little heart.

sorry :(

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, PSV are winning.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Holy cow, PSV are 2 up! What a great game.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

That's mental. Mind you a liverpool v psv final would be no less surprising than last year's one.

― The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus, twist and twist again!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

This is absolutely amazing 3-1 now.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

PSV out on away goals but what a performance. Liverpool could take Milan easily based on this showing.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

ha, I wouldn't put any money on a comfy win for Liverpool if I were you, Billy.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Martin, you're probably right, but Milan looked pretty woeful. Hopefully Liverpool will put up a more attacking performance than they have done so far as Milan looked pretty vulnerable at times whne pressured.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Milan did look poor, but Liverpool do not play the same was as PSV, and aren't the kind of side to rip someone apart. I'm not saying Liverpool can't win, not at all, but I see it as a tight 1-0 kind of game, like a lot of such finals over the years, and I don't know which way it will go.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Martin is OTM. It's laughable to claim that Liverpool could beat Milan easilly based on their performance tonight. PSV and Liverpool are two totally different teams. I'm not saying Liverpool cant win but IMO they dont even have a 50% chance of winning. Milan will obviously play a more attacking football in the final(using two attackers).

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Liverpool have more chance of beating Milan, as Milan are more likely on paper to beat them. It's the way their campaign has gone thus far.

― Dave Blue Streak (daveb), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Argh. Damn. PSV were soooooo close. O fukk...

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

PSV's defence was too loose in the critical phase, but they were the better team for considering both games. Milan presented only 50% of their real potential, especially Seedorf and Pirlo disapointed me.

KAKA IS GOD!

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

This is tomorrow! Like Ossie, my knees have gone all trembly.

Speculation? Predictions? My public line is that we are going to get hammered. But, secretly, I think LFC might be younger and fresher, and may even nick a cheeky set piece.

And suggestions for good pubs to watch it in, in London?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

If ever a game was certain to be boring as hell then it's surely this one - unless Milan go mad, i don't envisage Liverpool playing much football.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 09:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I have decided i want liverpool to win if only to really rub the manc's noses in it. mwah ha ha ha.

I normally watch Champions League games in an italian cafe on Charlotte St but that's probably not a good idea if you're not planning to support Milan. Otherwise, pick any London pub really. They'll all be full of Cockney Reds ('I've supported Liverpool all my life, mate. No, never been to Anfield. Saw them at Plough Lance once, though.')

― Pete W (peterw), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

The Angel by Old Street roundabout might not be too bad. I am suggesting it more because it's 5 mins from my work though, but there's an upstairs room that wasn't THAT busy for Chelsea v Barcelona or Bayern Munich v Chelsea.

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I have to adopt my "talismanic" prescence in my local, but have warned them I expect not to have to pay for any drinks in return.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 10:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I am starting to get terrified.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 10:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Hope is a disease, a horrible, debilitating disease

― ceebee, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

will igor play?

― charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

LFC ... may even nick a cheeky set piece.

I hope this is the first of many meeja references to a bunch of young lads from Liverpool nicking stuff over the next 48 hours.

I think they can win it.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 11:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if we could get two 0-0 and penalties major finals in a week? I think it may be Liverpool's main tactic, trying to keep Milan out rather more than trying to break them down. It could be very dull, but I wouldn't miss it.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno - everyone thought LFC would play boringly in the first leg against The Old Lady but they came haring out of the traps with Sami's volley and Luis's wundergoal.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

PSV really showed Milan up in that second leg didn't they? I never expected it, but it offers big hope.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I see that the Champions League player interviews have done for Steve and he is now talking like a fully fledged europlayer.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

PSV showed up Milan in the first leg too - they missed a hatful of chances to score an away goal themselves. 1-0 to Rafa's Reds seems the most likely result.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

If Liverpool win I will actually feel sorry for Michael Owen, hahaha

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

These are good points - they suggest that Liverpool are at their best when they go for it, as against Juve, and that Milan are at their weakest when someone goes at them in a lively way. Will Liverpool take this approach? I'm not sure they will.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Senor Pantalon - ring or PM me, also did you see the headline re: Garcia in today's Sun?

"Garcia is a sucker for his Nipper" - is there something we should know?

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.softlab.ece.ntua.gr/~sivann/pub/Uploaded/Greatest_YNWA_EVER!.wmv

oh god...watch this and try and hold back the tears, cabbage and jerry and other liverpool fans.

I can't work or think I am terrified now.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I thought it would be old skool.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a lovely clip. Nice to see without commentary.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I downloaded it without twigging what YNWA was. I thought there might be some footy action. Vile rubbish.

It's really got me riled up for tonight now.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Your hatred knows no ends!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I was about to speculate as to how I'd feel if Everton were in the CL final but I can't quite imagine it...

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't imagine it either - one mediocre 60ish-point-season side making the final is one thing, but I doubt it's the start of a trend.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

haha touché!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously though, you should just try and 'enjoy' tonight. It's been a season-saving Cup run irrespective of the result in Istanbul with at least three or four astonishing hall-of-fame moments along the way.

JtN sez: My public line is that we are going to get hammered. But, secretly, I think LFC might be younger and fresher, and may even nick a cheeky set piece.

Not surprisingly, I'm exactly the opposite. Cisse off the bench to net a 77th minute winner. (0-3 by halftime, Kewell booed off).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2H9O4AIG1KPX02TTGFM4DJWNDE

(found on Sarah's livejournal friends page!)

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Query -- any free streaming radio coverage of this sucker anywhere or am I out of luck unless I pony up?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I loved 'Anfield Rap' at it's time. I'm not sure I could bear hearing it again.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

It's also rubbage. It needs Liverpool to win the CL. I will run naked through Liverpool if this happens. I can see them beating Chelsea over two legs, but that's it.

-- Dave B (dave.boyl...), March 10th, 2005 5:28 PM.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

If ever a game was certain to be boring as hell then it's surely this one - unless Milan go mad, i don't envisage Liverpool playing much football.

-- Dadaismus (dadaismu...), May 24th, 2005.

― the black hand, Wednesday, 25 May 2005 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

So, do you think Owen called up any of his old mates?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the thread for the Liverpool/AC Milan Champions League final

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 26 May 2005 10:04 (twenty-one years ago)

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