NYC: A&C FUBAR

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http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2005/01/24/train_migraine.php

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 01:55 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2005/01/24/subway_fire_torches_real_estate_values_too.php
Three to five years—that's how long service on the A and C could be screwed up after a subway tunnel fire at the Chambers Street station yesterday. (Service on the C is suspended indefinitely)

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

cheap rent in manhattan again?

― Snappy (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooof! My favorite lines!

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh dear

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

FUCK THIS SHIT

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

man if someone ever suggested that my commute would be quadrupled, i would strangle them without hesitation

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:21 (twenty-one years ago)

How the fuck did the man get a shopping cart full of wood into chambers street anyway??? What the fuck.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:23 (twenty-one years ago)

If only irony hadn't died ...

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:24 (twenty-one years ago)

NOT IN MY NAME, DEAN GULBERRY

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i live really, really far uptown on the a line, this like destroys any social life for the next 5 months.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

5 years!

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

well i won't live here after 5 months, BECAUSE OF THIS OF COURSE

i don't understand how this could take 5 years to fix though! i mean the fucking wtc gets blown up on like exactly the same spot the homeless dude sets some wood on fire, and, like, that took 6 months to fix. WHAT DID HE DO IN THERE THAT CAUSED THIS? he musta set it on fire with 151, i set my finger on fire with 151 this weekend and that is totally sucking ass.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Irony wasn't in the Chambers St. station, obviously.

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

REMEMBER 1/24

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, it's the 25th? Well, fuck.

Now I have to get all those hats and t-shirts reprinted!

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

how awesome would it be to see service advisory posters saying "NYC: A&C FUBAR"

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i live really, really far uptown on the a line, this like destroys any social life for the next 5 months.

you can study hard, instead, and graduate magna cum laude!!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

You have other lines to take at least, Alliy. And having the A run local all the time suits me fine.

The three-to-five years (and several million dollars) claim would be hilarious if not for all the commuters whose lives this is ruining.

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(that said, if something like this had to happen i'm glad it did after thanksgiving ... i relied on the C to get to penn station!)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude Paul have you ever been in the 1/9 section of my subway station late at night? I'm taking my life into my own hands using those lines, seriously. It's like a still shot from resident evil.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

what station is that, 116th street? if so, i didn't think that it was so scary. then again, i wasn't there late at night.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:36 (twenty-one years ago)

plus, i think that ALL of NYC is kinda scary at night ... that's cause i'm from jersey so whuddya expect?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:37 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.vidgames.com/ps/screens/resevil27.jpg

AW PUPPIES IN THE 1/9 STATION.

(sorry, Ally. I remember having to take the A up to do the DJ thing that one Tuesday morning. Major fucking suckage. :( )

― donut christ (donut), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

dude I live nowhere really near 116th st!

it's one of those creeepy shitbag stations that are so deep underground that they force you to use an elevator to get to it. which also puts you nowhere near "security" (hahahaha) and there's like no easy way to escape cos the stairwells are all locked up and only for MTA employees! Totally fucked up. it's usually full of pidgeons!

xpost THAT IS TOTASLLY MY SUBWEAY STATION

PS I HAVE A BANDAid ONMY FINGER AND I CAN'R TYPE, I'M NOT DRUNK (i wasn't makingf up the 151 finger lightying incident)

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget the BIRDS that occasionally pop in.
That shit is nonsense.

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:43 (twenty-one years ago)

what do you think a pigeon is?

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

So, is the L train still closed on the weekend nights? If so, does that mean Brooklyn folks have to use a car service, cab, or feet basically if they want to go to Manhattan on the weekend nights?

― donut christ (donut), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:45 (twenty-one years ago)

that pic actually looks more like the city hall stop in philadelphia than anything i've ever seen in NYC ... well, maybe the JMZ at city hall/brooklyn bridge.

that's also the 1st time i've heard about PIGEONS in the NYC subway. again, i thought that pigeons in subways and train stations was a strictly philly thing ... there's so much to learn on ILX!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:45 (twenty-one years ago)

..because I remember having to do an GCA thing to get to Manhattan from Wmsbrg when I was there.. or something like that.

― donut christ (donut), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

there really ought to be a "scariest NYC subway stations" thread here ... i hear that some of the stops way out in the outer boroughs are as bad as that pic!!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

the G is the most USELESS line of ALL NYC subway lines. except maybe for the JMZ line.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

G --> C ---> A that is. (all the "<'s got parsed out)

― donut christ (donut), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

what do you think a pigeon is?

walter pidgeon?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, the G is certainly useful when the L is down, speaking from experience. But I ended up taking the G very often on the second leg, cuz I think stence lives near the G. (or was that my first host? aaah I forget now)

― donut christ (donut), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I like how the MTA's advisory is recommending that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCDES should a person travelling on the JMZ transfer to the A while in brooklyn, it's like wow your options are the worst trains in manhattan or one that isn't working anymore, you should just sue City Hall.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:50 (twenty-one years ago)

er obviously I thought by "pidgeons" you meant the homeless, like that one guy who was kung-fu fighting the trash cans and walls and benches the one time I was in there at 2am by myself. We need to take some pictures of that station with my back facing the camera a la GTA, that would be like art or something

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Was the homeless man smoking? Aw man, if Bloomberg finds out.

― donut christ (donut), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:54 (twenty-one years ago)

outer borough stops are another world unto themselves, the ones in the bronx can resemble like shanties that were taken out by a hurricane two years ago and not rebuilt, except with a big fucking train stopping there occasionally.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:54 (twenty-one years ago)

MOSHULU PARKWAY

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 05:59 (twenty-one years ago)

So, is the L train still closed on the weekend nights? If so, does that mean Brooklyn folks have to use a car service, cab, or feet basically if they want to go to Manhattan on the weekend nights?

the L isn't the only train that goes to brooklyn.

i live near the M/R/2/3/4/5/F/A (C train RIP), and the G is a relatively short walk away.

― amanda lear (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 06:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I know.. i was just being Williamsburg-centric for a second there.. apologies.

― donut christ (donut), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 06:06 (twenty-one years ago)

The L has started running normally again anyway, hasn't it? Or is it still shutting down at 11?

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 06:08 (twenty-one years ago)

i could smell the smoke from the fulton st. J/M/Z today. (i hate the J/M/Z but it's the most convenient way to get to work, sadly. luckily there never seems to be anyone on it where/when i take it.)

also, the A/C were my primary means for getting out of the fucking pit that is the financial district of lower manhattan. goddamnit.

the G only serves the purpose of taking me to pratt to visit a friend, but once she transfers, then i agree - most useless subway evah.

― joseph (joseph), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

what's most mind boggling to me abnout this is that it happened at 2 in the aftertnoon!

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 06:51 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously! i'd expect this sort of thing to happen at like 2 in the morning, if anything.

― joseph (joseph), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 06:56 (twenty-one years ago)

GTRAIn SUN!!!!!11!G's up!
the only train that matters

― autovac (autovac), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

The L train is only down on a weekday from midnight until the next morning like once every 2-3 weeks and down on the weekend like once every 2-3 months.

― S!monB!rch (Carey), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

The subway station Ally lives near smells like bleach or some of that orange cleaner all the time. They are washing away the sins of the station.

― S!monB!rch (Carey), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

The F, during morning rush, really puts the F in New York Fucking City. The trains have become absurdly crowded and irregularly spaced, and the doors open and close 3-5 times at EACH stop.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

what's with the JMZ hate? not a bad train at all! and ally, yr stop (if it's still the same one) always reminds me of the beginning of jacob's ladder. i nominate the ghost train and the fuck train as the worst lines in the city. my fave: the b/d.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Last night I took the A from 110th to the East Village with no waiting and no crowds, and, bonus, it went on the F line after West 4th so I didn't have to transfer. I couldn't have committed more convenient arson myself.

You got to respect the cave pigeons though. They get on the train at 125 and ride up to their nest like they're too cool to fly. Is the 1/9 deeper than the A at your stop, Ally, or vice versa?

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

paul that's the grossest come on ever

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

the 1/9 is much, much deeper. The A/C side has a bodega stand, about 7 or 8 cops roaming around at all times, you can still get your cell phone signal, etc etc. It's like the elevators to the 1/9 are actually a portal to another dimension!

― Alliyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm late to this thread, but I just want to throw in my "fuck the mta with its $2 rides and craptastic reliability and WHY CAN'T THEY FIGURE OUT HOW TO OPERATE THE SUBWAY IN THE RAIN OR SNOW because it's not like this is the first time in the history of the underground worm that it's snowed/rained and it's CERTAIN that it will snow/rain AGAIN oh and by the way thanx for wiping your ass with my tax dollars not to mention the giant hilariousness that is homeland security or whatever the fuck when some dude can LIGHT A HUGE FIRE near an electrical apex or whatever the fuck." I was almost too exhausted to type all that. Almost. Vodka tonic, anyone?

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

It probably won't take 5 years. They say it will take five years so when it takes them two years to do something that should take six months they can come out and say "We have restored your service THREE YEARS ahead of schedule, thanks to our brilliant and efficient work, now pay us more tax money."

I used to live on the West Sieede, I am thankful I moved to the middle a few years back.

― Ash (ashbyman), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

mta is still much better than any other public transport system i've encountered.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

DC METRO, IN THE HIZZY.

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The visual, olfactory, auditory, and tactile filth that is the NYC subway experience, which I endure each day, is probably the thing I will miss the least when I move to LA this spring.

― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"I have a question. What are all these little tarry black spots on the ground everywhere?"

"Uh, gum"

"Wow"

― TOMBOT, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

lauren is pretty much OTM actually, at least it DOES run 24/7, which is probably a big reason why it does become impossible to fix problems properly.

I already told Paul this but the A isn't going local uptown, according to the advisory this morning in my subway station. It doesn't actually say anything that would actually tell you that any part of the A might still be running it's normal route, but in a roundabout fashion, they alleviated my aggravation: "between 125th St and 59th Street, the only trains that will stop on Central Park West will be the B, so please plan for delays, especially at rush hour".

Which means my commute is NOT suddenly 3 hours long and I might as well move back to Wayne.

― allyzay is sick of subways anyway, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

You got to respect the cave pigeons though. They get on the train at 125 and ride up to their nest like they're too cool to fly.

Is this really how they get to those deep, elevator-only stations? I always wondered.

Really?

― W i l l (common_person), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Allyzay, most of my family lives in Wayne. :) And yes, I complain too much about the MTA. I complain too much period.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

haha I admit I started this thread because new yorkers are spectacular complainers and I wanted to encourage it.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I spent too many nights stranded in the wrong parts of worse-served cities to complain much about the MTA.

About the cave pigeons: that explains why they're all along the 1/9 (which goes outside for a spell) and not other lines.

― Paul Eater (eater), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Teeny, are we clowns? Do we amuse you?

http://www.moviemaker.com/issues/48/images/Scorsese.GoodFellas.jpg

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Awesome Jeanne.

― Ash (ashbyman), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i live between a C stop and a G stop.

last night it took me 2 hours to get home from near the Port Authority (hanging out at Siberia, where again I reiterate I AM BARTENDING ON SUNDAY), and it only was that quick because I said fuck it and took the D to Dekalb and walked all the way from Dekalb and Flatbush home, through the slush and what not. When I got home the sun was coming up.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

(it amuses me, too, teeny. but I live in LA - that's karmic payback enough for anyone.)

― luna (luna.c), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Would any ILX hobby-economists happen to feel like looking into why no cities in the world seem to be able to run effective and financially solvent public transport systems? I mean, I can think of a million systemic issues a person could point to, but the whole thing still nags at me.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

(NB I'm told the main issue for NYC is massive maintenance expenditures. Also I dunno whether Tokyo and Tokyo-suburban public transport is financially solvent or not.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

off the top of my head, they're subsidized because they're (perceived as being) worth subsidizing? just like highways and home ownership

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

It's the age of the NYC system that makes it so shitty, and the incessant ridership that makes renovation kind of impossible. They are introducing conductor-less trains this summer on one line (replacing the antiquated signal system) but a major overhaul is not an option unless all of NYC takes a 10-year vacation.

― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah Teeny but even with subsidization they're constantly digging into deeper and deeper holes, ramping up fares beyond projection, etc etc. I don't know of any US city system that isn't constantly scurrying around some threatened collapse.

Ha: NYC should just build a whole new elevated system around the top of the city. We could hang it off of buildings and stuff. Then one day we'll just all switch.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

B-b-b-b-but Spiderman 2 shows NY having an elevated train system!

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno about solvency (i imagine the govt subsidies are way better) but both Madrid and Barcelona have excellent subway systems.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

ps NY still has an elevated train system - in Queens, the Bronx, parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn

and at one point it used to be mostly elevated trains. Don't you guys ever think about that when you're eating at subway and they've got that wallpaper with train lines that obviously aren't underground?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

mayahaha

― mayahee, mayahoo, mayaha, mayahaha (deangulberry), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

even with subsidization they're constantly digging into deeper and deeper holes, ramping up fares beyond projection, etc etc. I don't know of any US city system that isn't constantly scurrying around some threatened collapse.

except for the bit about the fares, you've described missouri's highway system.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

new york doesn't subsidize the mta enough, obv.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I know, Stencil: I was surprised to learn quite how late some of the lines got moved underground. (Wasn't there a 2nd Ave line all the way into the 50s?) Look, if we went from up to down, we can do the reverse! Climb in the city, bury in the boroughs! Switch it up every half-century!

(I assume the preference for Manhattan subways is to keep elevated-line footprints from taking up precious above-ground real-estate, but as far as maintenance and accessibility go it was a terrible move; above-ground = endlessly eaiser to deal with.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Also I offer my condolences to riders of the A and C (which I for some reason never use, despite living like three blocks from them).

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

They'd have to completely shut down the system at least at nights to truly overhaul the thing and that's virtually impossible. Too many people would completely lose their shit over that, even though like almost every other city on the entire planet with a subway/metro system shuts their doors at like 2am and those people all miraculously survive the dark, scary nights. The main problem would be the damage it'd do to the nightlife industry, I think (because for as little as the current City Hall seems to care about that industry, they care less about the dudes that are working graveyard shifts anywhere). So it'll never be done, they'll do piecemeal fixes and install newer trains here and there (which runs into the same issue Amtrak has with the Acela--you can install any new train you want, if they run on the tracks from 10 trillion years ago, installed by the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, then it's not going to make a difference other than asthetically and in terms of like the PA system).

That being said, there is no fucking excuse for the disrepair on some of the lines, particularly the stations up in the Bronx, which still seems to be noman'sland in terms of gentrification. I mean at least they seem to have made some kind of effort to make the stations in Queens and Brooklyn not look like haunted houses that have been abandoned for 75 years (nb I have not seen all stations in all bouroughs but I've seen a helluva lot more of this in the Bronx than anywhere else--I mean I might've bitched about my station and I really DON'T think the 1/9 area is safe after a certain hour for a lone person to go down there, but I mean, jesus, at least you don't have to stand in a foot of snow to get a train there).

WTF is that about? This is no offense, I think, to the people on the LES, but why the hell do they keep talking about the building of the mythical city of Atlantis, I mean the 2nd Avenue subway, when they can't even keep their current stations in good repair outside of, like, midtown (and even then, has Times Square been under renovations for the past 20 years or what??).

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

That being said, it's like the exact opposite of DC's metro in that the stations outside of DC proper all seem to be spaced approximately 10 feet apart and are seemingly constantly staffed and in decent repair (except for fucking Tenleytown, are they ever going to turn on the escalator again?), but if you actually want to go somewhere in DC itself, you might as well buy yourself a mule and fucking ride, cos it'll get you there better than a damn metro train (unless you really, really want to go to the Smithsonian 400 times a year, then you're set). Union Station, the MAJOR HUB FOR THE ENTIRE CITY, is only serviced by one line anywhere near it, and it's one of the worst lines from my travels around the city during the days and weekends. I mean I might be bitching about MTA a lot right now cos this C thing is blowing my mind like 20 Es, but seriously the other city I "live" in has a subway system entirely designed to disenfranchise and inconvenience the taxpayer base of the city it is supposed to serve while courting the outer realm yuppies--wtf? Our system might be erratic and bullshit but at least it wasn't DESIGNED that way from day 1.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

My economics class tonight used the NYC cigarette taxes as an example model of something, and now I'm sitting here wondering why the fuck my $4 extra per pack isn't going to like actually fixing anything in this city but is paying for anti-smoking ads. How much money do you reckon comes into the city between cigarette tax and alcohol tax? What is that being used for? Besides the 75% raises for the legislators, I guess.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Sssh. It's over now.

― Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

This is no offense, I think, to the people on the LES, but why the hell do they keep talking about the building of the mythical city of Atlantis, I mean the 2nd Avenue subway, when they can't even keep their current stations in good repair outside of, like, midtown

because there's a huge swath of the east side that has a 10-15-minute walk to the subway, and a lot of it is wealthy/works on Wall St

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

and because there used to be a third avenue subway

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

only one of what you said actually matters to them building the subway.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

it probably wouldn't matter to them as much if the subway were closer, though

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I had a big cool answer to nabisco's q about solvent mass transit but ILX ate it this afternoon.

So now that I'm tired and hungry and pissed off from having to ride the Red Line home, let me sum up:

Mass Transit of any sort is totally handicapped when dealing with shifts in demand. When everybodyeverybodyeverybody needs a ride they can't up the fare to $12, and they can't say "oh well the 1 am is only 22% booked, let's cancel." Trains (worse than planes, and much worse than buses) have set expectations and timetables which they can't uphold without bleeding cash. Running any kind of mass transit system has to be one of the most thankless jobs on the planet, because passenger liners of any sort (whether they have tires, tracks or ailerons) are constantly being forced to provide services at a loss when they schedule a run and then don't fill it up.

Taxicabs have it made: they charge the same whether it's one person or four, they charge based on distance/time taken, they pick their own hours and locations to work, and they get tips. That's how you run a goddamn business. Not by charging an absurdly low fee to ride wherever the hell you please and hoping you'll get lucky and have enough passengers to break even on your fixed schedule.

because there's a huge swath of the east side that has a 10-15-minute walk to the subway, and a lot of it is wealthy/works on Wall St

the people who spent $2.0m for a condo on the UES don't ride the subway, sorry

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:22 (twenty-one years ago)

If you wanna ride MTA and you're wealthy living on the UES then sell your 3BR to some other moron, put a clothespin on your nose and slum it with the hippies to the south, fuck a lot of financiers who voted republican

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:25 (twenty-one years ago)

the people who spent $2.0m for a condo on the UES don't ride the subway, sorry

right, they take black cars or line up at the Wall St.-only UES taxi stand. it's the people in walkups and doorman-rentals who work for the people who spent $2M for a condo who have the long walk.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

there are lots of rich people who take the subway, though. and it's not just the Far East people who care - everyone crowds onto the Lex line which is sardine-like at rush hour. the west side gets two lines. no fair.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Somebody should be entrepreneurial, then, and build an elevated sky-train running from there to downtown, and charge $5 a ride, discounts on monthly passes.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Seattle is getting rid of its mini-Monorail in place for the new bigger one. Maybe someone can help transport it?

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, now they're saying it'll be 6-9 months not years before it's running again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/26/nyregion/26subway.html?ex=1264395600&en=aea4e789ce2674f4&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt

Sometimes I'm amazed that the NY Subway runs at all. And sometimes it surprises me by not running.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 04:04 (twenty-one years ago)

my point is not whether or not another line would be beneficial to anyone, gabbneb, but whether or not it is prudent to promise money to create an add on to a system with known, extant problems not being fixed. building additional lines while a not small percentage of the system is in utter disrepair is a complete mismanagement of funds, IMO. it's going to lead to everything else continuing to have issues and the new lines won't be in any better shape a few years later.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

LA subway system to thread.

Mainly for how a well-intentioned idea was completely subverted by civic bureaucrats hungry for government cash, a cornucopia of Balkanized NIMBY neighborhoods, and the LAX Parking Commission.

So now the LA subway is a highly efficient and inexpensive way to get from one nowhere to another. (but the Blue Line to Long Beach is rather nice)

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 04:18 (twenty-one years ago)

as much as i like bitching about the mta, i just watched a documentary about an american power company (AES) who bought the power company in Georgia, the former soviet republic. Sheesh. that country (like most of the former USSR) is fucked.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

but anyway i'm still gonna bitch about the mta - i wish there was some way we could like vote alan hevesi leader of it, or the state, or something. or i guess we should vote for spitzer at the next election. i can't think that he'd do half the lousy job that pataki has.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

So now the LA subway is a highly efficient and inexpensive way to get from one nowhere to another

True for the most part -- yet I admit for my own uses in terms of getting up to LA and back for Amoeba runs or get-togethers and all that, it is actually pretty handy. But it is pretty skeletal and most certainly does not cover the entire area, so the bus system is often needed still.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahaha hstencil that's priceless, "dude sfw, at least we're not GEORGIA".

as for pataki, i spit on his grave, when he has one.

LA subway system sounds like what I hear about about the Atlanta one? Though I've never been on either.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 05:55 (twenty-one years ago)

power trip: http://www.powertrip-themovie.com/index2.html

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 05:57 (twenty-one years ago)

more: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/powertrip/

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 05:58 (twenty-one years ago)

did you actually see it on PBS just now or did you rent it? because I'd be intertested to see it but the PBS website was just tres unhelpful.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 06:05 (twenty-one years ago)

it was on pbs just now.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 06:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Aboveground subways are much better to ride, but they're really difficult build after an area has been developed. Being in darkness 24/7 really has a way of killing business, ruining community, etc... There's some more on this in the Powerbroker and I've forgotten most of it.

After being in Sydney, I'm not gonna complain too much about the MTA. 5 Year delays on normal service are added weekly over there.

― C0L!N B3CK3TT, Wednesday, 26 January 2005 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Portland, OR's public transportation is fantastic: light rail and a bus system so efficient that you can go to trimet.org, punch in your start and end-points, and find out when you should leave your house to catch the appropriate bus.

― Douglas (Douglas), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"I have a question. What are all these little tarry black spots on the ground everywhere?"
"Uh, gum"

MTA, I kill you with gums.

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"Power Trip" was enlightening.

The F-uck train was suspended again this morning. I trooped the 3 blocks downhill to the N/R and got to work faster. Considering abandoning the rent fight (need a lawyer we can't afford) and move to Third Ave.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, I sat in the F train -- which was actually a V train running on the F track -- for 30 minutes this morning. Fuck the homeless and their attempts at warmth. I have places to go.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

ILX car pool? At least we're not there yet.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to hold up TriMet as an example of a good system on this thread, but doesn't it have chronic financial problems?

― Paul Eater (eater), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

the v, argh. it sits for at least 15 minutes at 2nd ave before starting its uptown run. still, when it's about 112 degrees on the platform a nice air-conditioned place to sit and wait for the f is pretty awesome.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you play the which-is-leaving-first? chase game, Lauren, or do you coolly choose your V and sit?

― Paul Eater (eater), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Sometimes I'm amazed that the NY Subway runs at all. And sometimes it surprises me by not running.

So true. I think I just love to hate the MTA. Is that so wrong?

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe the best subway system after nyc is moscow, which has a spiderweb grid, with lines running out from a central hub to the suburbs, and then cocentric-circle lines running through all of the lines stringing out from that hub. at most you only have to transfer once to get to a destination, and when the line was built it was stretched to unpopulated areas, expecting that one day people will live there. and when an area outside of a stop gets too empty, they simply cease stopping at that station. really cool.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i used to play the chasing game, paul, but eventually i just parked myself on the v and figured i'd get there sooner or later. i should point out, though, that if i was going on the f/v line then it was usually not work-related and thus on a more relaxed schedule.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

And the Moscow stations are deep and comfortable enough to double as bomb shelters!

I applaud your coolness, Lauren. I hate sharing my relaxed V ride with lathery people who've just run for it from the other side.

― Paul Eater (eater), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

What is with that, though? The terminus points on the trains and the taking 20 minutes to like make the train move again. The C does the same thing, and when I used to have to take the E from WTC it did the exact sam thing too. What are they doing, is there a logical reason for this? It seems more efficient to just move the damn things. They do it no matter the time of day so it's not even an off-peak thing.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

the V is replacing the C now, which is weird. But also cool, 'cause I can get to the L.E.S. much quicker.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"Destroy all lines? What did the lines ever do to you?"

― Snappy (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I always take the 2nd ave subway and I've never seen the V leave sooner than the F. I think it is unable to do so. I always sit in the V in the hopes that that will be the one time it actually leaves the station, but everytime, every one sits down and waits, 10 or so minutes later the F pulls in, and everyone runs across the tracks to the F (unless it is already super crowded).

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I miss riding the JMZ all the time. My roommate wants to paint his room so it has JMZ colors.

― S!monB!rch (Carey), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The MTA site will let you buy remaindered signage and cool shit like that, I talked to them once about getting a full size map.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 27 January 2005 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

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