grown-ups who are really into harry potter

always telling me to read harry potter

You don't need to read them! That's what the films are for.

i work with these people. they're all boring

I don't want to read or see anything, I want them to shut up about it.

i dont wanna sound like a dick but seriously these are kids books and theyre like 800 pages long and theres all these retards in line with like lightning bolts drawn on their foreheads what the fuck about this appeals to a sane adult xp lol theyre my co-workers too

i want them to not accuse me of "being crazy" or ask me "What's wrong with you?"

adults really into harry potter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adults really into accusing harry potter of fostering witchcraft in our schools

I got intensely annoyed with former co-worker, when I said I was going to see the fifth film, and replied "oh, I've read the book" as if it were Finnegan's Wake or something.

I read and enjoyed the first four books but I'm buggered if I'm going to waste time reading the rest and spoiler the films.

and god forbid you mention that youre reluctant to read a bunch of 800 page kids books or you get accused of lacking their bullshit sense of wonder or being some square adult to their whimsical peter pan self-image

how come the people who get all defensive-cat.jpg HOW DARE YOU DISMISS THEM AS KIDS BOOKS THEYRE JUST GOOD BOOKS IS ALL never actually read books intended for adults

"You can't criticise it if you haven't read it" - FUCK OFF!!!

The first four books are actually really good reads. Then it's like she starts specifically catering for her nerdier fans and things become dreadfully convoluted, at times reading like an RPG sourcebook.

They make you feel like a kid again!

I read the first and third ones. They're well-written but they are total kiddie books; anyone telling you otherwise is fooling themselves.

What's funny about these people is that they'd never read some adult book you suggested for whatever whiny pleased-with-own-ignorance reason yet think you are a snob if you don't want to waste days reading their fantasy tripe.

It's not even that they are kid books. I tried reading that kind of magicy shit when I was a kid and I didn't like it. May as well read D&D books.

the last one came out on a saturday, right? someone at work came up to me monday morning--and keep in mind, i had never talked with her previously about these books ever:

"So. What do you think so far? Did you finish?"
Me: "Did I finish what?"
"Harry Potter! It came out Saturday. . ."
Me: "Oh, I haven't read those. . ."
"WHAT OMG U CRAZY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. . ." etc etc

I read all kinds of brain-dead media tie-in fiction that pretty much does exactly what the Harry Potter books do, only in about 80% fewer words.

got girl i used to go out with mad into this even tho i never cared about it myself and she was unconvinced until i bought her the first book as a present. weird.

and what about seven years late to this particular party

Finnegans Wake does not have an apostrophe in its title.

hey guess what i think i AM allowed to be smug about reading shit written above a 4th grade level - at least the dudes i knew in high school who never moved out of their moms house to just smoke weed & play xbox all day dont pretend theyre recapturing the magic of childhood when they do it

They're well-written

Not particularly. The best thing about them is the inventiveness and (in the first four at least) clever plotting.

There's a film of Finnegans Wake?

and what about seven years late to this particular party

-- jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:17 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

tell that to people who want me to read harry potter

Dan how is that attempt to review every single Doctor Who novel going, anyway?

May as well read D&D books.

this is part of what weirds me out about the whole thing, it would be like if my parents and their co-workers had also been reading Dragonlance books when i was a kid.

less dragonlance more narnia.

I'm not saying you're wrong, thankfully no one around me seems to be talking about these anymore.

Getting the impression that a high proportion of people who are vehemently anti-reading Harry Potter are people who don't read fantasy/genre fic to begin with? Not including Dan Perry, obv.

xxp I am still reading Dragonlance. Or, well, the slightly more literary equivalent(s).

lol what are you guys talking abt these people are delightful to zing for reading childrens books

just take a condescending mocking tone and go from there

Finnegans Wake does not have an apostrophe in its title.

There are all sorts of things wrong with my post there. I weep for my basic literacy.

i think the last time i mentioned being annoyed by this phenomenon i got into an argument with laurel about YA books?

xp, ha

There's a film of Finnegans Wake?

Joseph Strick strikes again?

The world of make-believe makes for a great escape for some adults! Why rain on their parade?!?!?

on old-ilx this thread would have a lot more butthurtedness by now.

Then it's like she starts specifically catering for her nerdier fans and things become dreadfully convoluted, at times reading like an RPG sourcebook.

ha if only...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/BoVDCover.gif

good response when asked if you read harry potter:

oh is that that kids book wheres theres like magic and then everything turns out ok in the end?

Dan how is that attempt to review every single Doctor Who novel going, anyway?

sonotgonnahappen.jpg (mostly because I lost a couple ;_;)

I include "clever plotting" in with the things I enumerate when I decide whether a book is well-written or not; what's the point of excluding it?

(holy shit people be bitching about Harry Potter)

i think it's fine if people read them--i just don't want people who do read and ejnjoy HP to pitch a fit when i tell them that i don't read them. it's happened twice, both times with grown adults.

I generally put Harry Potter and Buffy into the same bucket: well-done stuff in genres I like that I really couldn't care less about.

i dont read 'fantasy fiction' normally and i read 'MATURE ADULT LITERATURE,' and i dont get on people about 'omg u must read' but these books are fun and i dont regret having read them

on old-ilx this thread would have a lot more butthurtedness by now.

On old ILX, Harry Potter would not have had an extra five or so years to ascend to the level of Mandatory Culture.

I generally put Harry Potter and Buffy into the same bucket: well-done stuff in genres I like that I really couldn't care less about.

-- HI DERE, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:22 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

^

its 'trash' but not in a bad way

Getting the impression that a high proportion of people who are vehemently anti-reading Harry Potter are people who don't read fantasy/genre fic to begin with? Not including Dan Perry, obv.

-- Laurel, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:19 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i like cs lewis & re-read the narnia books as an adult 4-5 years ago & absolutely enjoyed them

i mean its pretty easy to trash this stuff, what normal person wants to spend all their time getting captain save a ho about books that are largely for children? but so was 'the hobbit' and i still like that (yes the hobbit is better but im just saying)

Ethan hearts Christian propaganda!

I don't really like "MATURE ADULT LITERATURE", actually, only the adventure/quest narrative really interests me. I'm pretty okay with that, though.

On old ILX, Harry Potter would not have had an extra five or so years to ascend to the level of Mandatory Culture.

-- Matt DC, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:24 PM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

this is true

wasnt there a thread about "mandatory culture" like the shit that people in their 20s of above average intelligence expect you to be feeling and get shocked/butthurt when you say you dont give a fuck?? like wes anderson movies and david sedaris and shit

stuffwhitepeoplelike lol

are these the same adults that only listen to 'Rumours'

i don't fuck with any of this stuff: it's either d&d weirdsville or public school wank fantasies.

YOU DONT LIKE RADIOHEAD??? SERIOUSLY???

now let us forget our differences by all reading Tekwar

Finnegans Wake does not have an apostrophe in its title.

Isn't this a bit of specalist, technical knowledge that the average person doesn't need to know?

does it really bother you when people are aghast that you dont like harry potter and radiohed tho

putting an apostrophe in there is one in the eye for the guardians of dead white male-ist high modernism.

xpost

this is why e-mail addresses are't allowed apostrophes

Radiohead has two a's in it

i welcome the opportunity to zing radiohead too

like wes anderson movies and david sedaris and shit

Yes, and everything ever related to McSweeney's and DFW and indie rock and knowing about spouty pop-philosophy and being "post-"things. I think these are largely people Nabisco refers to as "mac users"?

most of the grown-ups I know who read Harry Potter are way into other fantasy/sci-fi and don't hold it in super-high regard or push it on me, but maybe that's rare. I figure if I ever have kids that are into those books I'll read along but generally I go oh, I'll just watch the movies instead -- but even that's kind of daunting, by the time they're done it'll be like 20 hours' worth of movies.

Equally offensive is the assumption that because you have read and enjoyed Harry Potter you are some sort of sub-literate manchild incapable of appreciating grown-up writing. I have also read and enjoyed Dostoyevsky and Marquez, but for very different reasons, and I know many Potter fans can say the same or similar.

I had an email address with an apostrophe in it for three years and it worked fine.

eh i dunno one of the people i talk to about books more than anyone else is an HP fan but shes also one of the most well-read people i know, and i don't mean in a "ive read ALL the sword of shannara books!" way. im sure i'd rather talk w/ her about books than 90% of the people posting "lol im too cool for these harry potter books, lol roleplaying!"

not talking about ethan here cuz i've talk w/ him about books before, just saying.

eh the world-design of these seems really creepy and escapist to me: all the magical stuff is secret and invisible, so there's huge conflicts going on that have zero bearing on what happens normal-world. if the bad guys won the whole thing, would it matter?

In Rainbows is a good album but is a SERIOUS letdown compared to practically every Radiohead album besides Pablo Honey.

"ive read ALL the sword of shannara books!"

lol

Equally offensive is the assumption that because you have read and enjoyed Harry Potter you are some sort of sub-literate manchild incapable of appreciating grown-up writing.

it breaks down this way: you enjoy reading kids' books; we enjoy zinging. fair?

eh the world-design of these seems really creepy and escapist to me: all the magical stuff is secret and invisible, so there's huge conflicts going on that have zero bearing on what happens normal-world. if the bad guys won the whole thing, would it matter?

-- gff, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:30 AM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

not to be a pedant but uh yeah it is supposed to impact 'the real world,' its a struggle going on underground more or less

xp Eh? They have lots of bearing on the "real" world, non-magical people start getting killed at some point. I'm sympathetic to ethan et al's complaints here but you'll have to pick a new criticism.

"ive read ALL the sword of shannara books!"

FIGHT THE REAL ENEMY aka these people.

i liked the narnia books and the chronicles of prydain when i was a kid, it's not that i don't like fantasy stuff i just don't understand the cult of it all. . .not the lining up outside the bookstore stuff, that's cool i think that's okay. it's more of the WHY CANT YOU BE ONE OF US type shit

really i dont judge people based on what they read - this doesnt mean ill pass up the opportunity to make fun of them

you really can't understand that? xp

I do not Love Raymond! I demand the TV show be renamed to reflect this!

This thread is like falling through the rabbithole.

I don't understand half of ILX lingo any more.

Also, 70 posts (and counting) in half an hour, and not a single one over 1 paragraph. The speed has increased, the content decreased. I feel like an old lady in a ponytrap shaking her head in confusion at those whizzy new steam trains.

but but everybody loves raymond

The first two Shannara books were so good, Terry Brooks decided to make a career out of rewriting them! It's Pern-Snydrome to the nth degree.

i haven't read any of these books or seen any of the movies, but i think it's fine to enjoy them as long as you feel guilty about it. the people who suck are the people who are all defiant and self-righteous about it

the da vinci code is the fucking king-for-all-times of this & that whole ordeal never really bothered me to be honest

yeah im not saying only dumb fucks dig harry potter just that all the smarmy im-in-touch-with-my-childlike-imagination bullshit you get when you dont give a shit about it is pretty funny coming from ppl who read like 'running with scissors' and maybe 3-4 other books in high school

da vinci code never bugged me cuz dudes who read it didnt proselytize for it and instead seem vaguely embarrassed when it comes up

i haven't read any of these books or seen any of the movies, but i think it's fine to enjoy them as long as you feel guilty about it. the people who suck are the people who are all defiant and self-righteous about it

-- n/a, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:34 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

like it's fine if you want to sit there and eat a huge fucking tub of ben and jerry's but at least have the decency to know that you're doing something terrible

I loved watching the reactions of devout Catholics who read The DaVinci Code!

Didn't all the people who read Running with Scissors also read that Frey book and the books by that guy who doesn't really exist, and Jonathan Lethem, and David Sedaris, and so on? Pretty sure that is same demographic.

im in favor of more shame about liking shit in general

the da vinci code is the fucking king-for-all-times of this & that whole ordeal never really bothered me to be honest

Haha, I'm such a hypocrite. I totally think Dan Brown fans are morons without ever having read a sentence of the man's work.

narnia, earthsea, and the golden compass stuff tries to say something ruff about life and the world. HP is just kind of a soap i think. but what do i know, i've never read a page.

xps ok guess i don't know how HP works then.

i feel exactly the same about HP fans &what

unless its like 'omg i like mc hammer its such a guilty pleasure' shit

da vinci code never bugged me cuz dudes who read it didnt proselytize for it and instead seem vaguely embarrassed when it comes up

Rong.

If I had a pound for each person who said "yes the story's good but you really read it for the historical detail" I'd have enough for a couple of pints at least.

I keep seeing "HP" and thinking Lovecraft.

narnia, earthsea, and the golden compass stuff tries to say something ruff about life and the world. HP is just kind of a soap i think. but what do i know, i've never read a page.

xps ok guess i don't know how HP works then.

-- gff, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:36 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

narnia def has some epic old testament shit i dont get from the twee lil autistic harry potter world

If you really want to lose brain cells, read Digital Fortress. That book is a steaming pile of crap.

xp lol i wish dudes were telling me to read lovecraft

i think i actually am the dude getting butthurt about other ppl not reading lovecraft

im in favor of more shame about liking shit in general

-- and what, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:35 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

lol catholic

da vinci code never bugged me cuz dudes who read it didnt proselytize for it and instead seem vaguely embarrassed when it comes up

So wrong. Go backpacking for a bit and it will be foisted upon you so many times.

btw i read angels & demons by dan brown when i was stuck at work one day really bored and it was the only book this girl had in her purse.... it was really dumb and the writing was bad but i got thru it in like 2 hours without throwing up or anything

The best part of Narnia is how in the last book three of the four original kids show up at TEH RATPURE and they're all "Where's Susan?" and God is all "She was fucking, so she can't come" and her siblings are all "Oh, okay!!!!"

Angels and Demons was stupid action movie fodder but fun to read.

it was weird to see all this corny fortean times x-files shit i was into as a kid being used by a guy who seemed a couple drinks away from illiterate

I had a co-worker who was trying to get me to read Harry Potter and I basically said, "I'm sure they're great and everything, but there are so many books that I want to read that I don't really feel like wasting my time on stuff that doesn't really interest me." A few months later, after she no longer worked here, she mailed me a YA book that she had also been trying to get me to read. Still on my bookshelf, obv.

matt dc & chap otm

well i dunno about backpacking, but that da vinci code definitely had legit proselytes, ive never met anyone who was more interested in making the case for harry potter than ashamed about copping to reading it

xp yeah if it was made into a movie with like billy zane and kurtwood smith and shown on wgn the superstation some saturday afternoon i would watch that

eh no one should feel guilty abt liking the harmless things they like - this harry potter sub-sub-culture thats so annoying is just practicing unilateral defensiveness - cause they do feel guilty

isnt this just a basic desire for community? like, something to share with other people? i mean, i dont get the 'U MUST READ HARRY POTTR' a lot, partly b/c im not a real adult yet, and most ppl my age read harry potter, but the sense i get about the shockedness from ppl about not liking all those things were talking about (sedaris, anderson, potter, the decemberists) is about those people wanting some kind of communal interest that we can then talk about and feel like we belong together and stuff. not altogether different from "omg why havent you heard the infamous" i dont think.

# grown-ups who are really into harry potter [Started by and what, last updated 15 seconds ago] 108 new answers

# Best Children's Books Ever [Started by Ed, last updated 38 seconds ago] 16 new answers

Lol.

still pissed on behalf of umberto eco that da vinci code was more popular than foucaults pendulum

i worked at a bookstore the first year it came out, and ... yeah, there was some prostelytizing fo sho

If you really want to lose brain cells, read Digital Fortress. That book is a steaming pile of crap.

I read the end of that one - if it's the one where some guy holds up three fingers as a clue to how to save the world and everyone racks their brains over what he could mean for pages and pages- turns out he means "3", lol omg aargh.

Angels and Demons was the worst book I actually finished in the last decade.

Harry Potter made people stop talking in public about The Bridges of Madison County, which, as a former bookseller, I am profoundly grateful.

I like the HP books, but part of it is watching my son enjoying it so much.

"not altogether different from "omg why havent you heard the infamous" i dont think."

this is more like 'omg why havent you heard the love below'

I'm not reading the remaining HP books on the grounds that I don't want to spoiler the movies which at least will have explosions and shit.

OMG if that's true about Digital Fortress then seriously best book ever.

Actually, what's funny is that the two other people I know who would talk excitedly about Harry Potter also talked excitedly about Infinite Jest, so I'm not sure we can really generalize a demographic here.

dan brown = 'omg you havent heard thievery corporation???'

hah harry potter is a lot more interesting than the love below

maybe the desire to proselytize also comes a short-sighted inability to recognize that, you know, people might have different interests from you, or from the cover of time magazine

is da vinci one of these invented history type things like those books that tell you the chinese had colonies in iceland in the 860s

harry potter is more like ... pop punk.

harry potter is manheim steamroller

as long as we're still talking about dude i should link my fav language log post where he breaks down the first para of da vinci code for the lolz

I LOVE POP PUNK!

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000844.html

Renowned curator Jacques Saunière staggered through the vaulted archway of the museum's Grand Gallery. He lunged for the nearest painting he could see, a Caravaggio. Grabbing the gilded frame, the seventy-six-year-old man heaved the masterpiece toward himself until it tore from the wall and Saunière collapsed backward in a heap beneath the canvas.

Didn't take you for a Blink-182 fan, Laurel.

still pissed on behalf of umberto eco that da vinci code was more popular than foucaults pendulum

-- max, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

lol try making a book that you dont have to know 1m things to understand smart guy

but you know foucaults pendulum was a huge international bestseller. its supposedly hr book the most people started and didnt finish. i have no idea how one would arrive at this stat and im sure its bullshit but i like it and im not going to feel guilty.

It was a warm night, as well it should be. Given that it was summer and all.

The mansion was one of the more noteworthy recent additions to the area -- the long-time dwellers there had plenty of things to say about it, seeing as they thought their own massive houses and protocastles were far more tasteful and restrained than this particular 'monstrosity,' as a local newsletter deemed it. However, these people had long since forgotten how they had merrily forced the artists and working folks away from the area in the first place so they could build their various coastside dwellings, swathed in the comfortable amnesia that money could and did provide for many. And so they judged the 200-room estate angrily, then retreated into their own 150-room locations, got lost and locked in one of the subbathrooms and generally expired.

Nightingale nodded, and gesturing to the others said, "With the assistance of these fine people -- and for a share of the profits, in the form of selections of what we are acquiring -- I am going to rob the most exclusive stamp collection in the world. That of the Vatican."

Nightingale and Ivey had returned to the mansion, and as it turned out -- to Ivey's surprise but evidently not to Nightingale's -- that a fair amount of the attendees had joined them and were still joining them, and not merely from the select dinner table either.

to be fair i have a lot more sympathy for ppl who are like 'WHY HAVENT U READ HARRY POTTA' than ppl who are like 'WHY HAVENT U READ THA DA VINCI CODE'

i think my favorite harry potter proselytizers are the ones who affect an humorous british accent

Obv. people can enjoy HP and other stuff as well--however I work with a few people who within the last god know how many years have read the Harry Potter books multiple times and NOTHING else. One tried to read the Golden Compass but I think when the characters left the school they gave up.

i haven't read any of these books or seen any of the movies, but i think it's fine to enjoy them as long as you feel guilty about it. the people who suck are the people who are all defiant and self-righteous about it

-- n/a, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:34 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is the crux of it for me. it's like, i grew up reading all kinds of crazy (sometimes terrible) fantasy shit, then had the good sense to move on to some other things, and NOW it's mainstream? now the soccer mom a few cublicles away is going on about it? this is the kind of book that should be associated with childhood, nostalgia, loneliness, and shame!

many xp's

i think maybe this just doesnt annoy me because i really dont know people who talk about this all the time?

no one i know gives a shit either way about any of this stuff

i win

One tried to read the Golden Compass but I think when the characters left the school they gave up.

-- President Keyes, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:49 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

kogan?

this is the kind of book that should be associated with childhood, nostalgia, loneliness, and shame!

Indie guilt.

i haven't heard anyone talk about it since the final book came out, but it was a little annoying for what, ten years?

oddly enough i don't really believe in guilty pleasures wrt to music.

The Decemberists have reached anything close to Harry Potter or even Wes Anderson levels?? I had no idea. I'm not sure if I know anyone else who listens to them.

million xposts

see this is weirder than HP to me
DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS.

Matt: that is 100% true about Digital Fortress.

(I guess I turned my sister on to the Decemberists.)

(Please tell me all these 'typical white people' are going back and buying Aqualung and Thick as a Brick to, you know, explore their roots.)

when i was in high school i knew mad people who would go to parties at borders the night before the books would come out all dressed up and even then it was like o_O

personally i think i read like the first five in between middle school and like freshman year of high school and by the time the next books came out i'd decided there were better things to do in life then read 800 pg books about magic

it's like, i grew up reading all kinds of crazy (sometimes terrible) fantasy shit, then had the good sense to move on to some other things, and NOW it's mainstream?

To be fair on potter it's a good deal cleverer and more literate than your average Tolkien knock-off wank fantasy. And god knows I speak from a position of authority here.

JK Rowling: I considered suicide as a struggling single mother

so close

personally i think i read like the first five in between middle school and like freshman year of high school and by the time the next books came out i'd decided there were better things to do in life then read 800 pg books about magic

-- J0rdan S., Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:58 AM (1 second ago) Bookmark Link

all growned up

can somebody quote a passage from harry potter they think is worthwhile?

is it though? i can't judge, because i read all that other stuff when i was a kid, and i read the first hp book with cynical adult eyes.

xp

Jordan, I think you and I had that previous argument precisely because you seem to think that books about things that "aren't true" are best left to childhood? I mean, whatev, it's your point of view so enjoy it. But I find it...perplexing.

xxxxp or so

personally i think i read like the first five in between middle school and like freshman year of high school and by the time the next books came out i'd decided there were better things to do in life then read 800 pg books about magic

-- J0rdan S., Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:58 AM (1 second ago) Bookmark Link

Top Posters So Far This Month

J0rdan S. 894

i win this thread cos i've never read lord of the rings either

j0rdan sounds like a muggle lolol

I have never met a grownup who is into harry potter books, or at least, I've never met one who was upfront about liking any of that. I read a bit of the first of them, I read some piece in the guardian about how they were kids' literature that could also be enjoyed by adults, so I picked one up from the charity shop, expecting something like "wizard of earthsea" or "wierdstone of brisingamen" or "the owl service" which I thought were pretty good & enjoyable, but I just found it kind of boring and didn't finish it. I'd like to be able to pontificate on a holier than thou manner about why it sux0r3d, but it was just a bit meh really. I'd hate some grown up person to start banging on about HP, I'd find it really boring and do not want, but if ppl enjoy the books, it's no big deal to me.

When I was an actual kid back in world war 1 I read a book called "the giant under the snow", which I remember as being very thrilling and creepy/dark, me and muh wuhmmun were talking about shit that we'd read when we were kids the other day, and I mentioned this one, so she ordered it from amazon for me, I wonder if it's actually any good or not.

The kid has a couple of the films on DVD, they're not the worst DVDs he has by a long way, but they're not as enjoyable as his thunderbirds DVDs or the Pixar ones.

I reread the narnia books a few years ago, the only one I still liked was the prequel one with all the pools representing worlds, and when a world dies, its pool dries up.

This has been a long post, which hasn't said very much other than "meh", really.

isnt this just a basic desire for community? like, something to share with other people?
--max

maybe the desire to proselytize also comes a short-sighted inability to recognize that, you know, people might have different interests from you
--max

I'm interested in both of these statements. There's a guy I know who's really into music and movies -- about as much as the average ILXor, but more so than most of his friends -- and he's spent a lot of time trying to turn people on to the stuff he likes. A lot of his friends are thankful for the recommendations, because they wouldn't have heard of things like the Flaming Lips or Bottle Rocket otherwise -- but there's something about it that rubs me the wrong way.

I definitely like being able to discuss art with people -- the conversation afterwards is often as rewarding as the experience itself -- but I prefer to come to things on my own terms, not because someone has pressured me into experiencing them. (Sometimes, too, I bristle at someone's misunderstanding of what sorts of things I might like.) Furthermore, I don't even really understood the impulse to make everything you like a communal, shared thing: there's lots of art I like where the fact that few others share my knowledge or pleasure of it is a big part of what makes it special to me. I wouldn't want to tarnish that by haranguing people all the time to experience it, too.

I think it probably takes a certain kind of confidence that I don't have, either, in the same way that I'm more comfortable writing music reviews with a subjective slant ("this is why I like X") rather than an objective one ("this is why you should like X").

i win this thread cos i've never read lord of the rings either

-- DG, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:01 PM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

me either holmes

posting to ilx>harry potter

i sneer at it anyway

xpost

I've never read LOTR and I'VE NEVER SEEN STAR WARS. Top that.

xposts

i think that must have been someone else, laurel..i can't imagine myself saying that, and i read like 95% fiction anyway. i care about good writing, mostly.

xxxxxxxxxxxxp

Jordan kind of OTM. although I still read books "about magic" I guess, if The Golden Bough and books about Qabbalistic symbolism and Aleister Crowley count.

(well and I did re-read Tolkien and CS Lewis a couple years ago and that stuff still holds up, I think)

i think that must have been someone else, laurel..i can't imagine myself saying that, and i read like 95% fiction anyway. i care about good writing, mostly.

xxxxxxxxxxxxp

-- Jordan, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:03 PM (57 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

she was talking to j0rdan

Difference being those books PRETEND IT'S REAL.

xxpost

Jordan, you just said this! "it's like, i grew up reading all kinds of crazy (sometimes terrible) fantasy shit, then had the good sense to move on to some other things, and NOW it's mainstream? now the soccer mom a few cublicles away is going on about it? this is the kind of book that should be associated with childhood, nostalgia, loneliness, and shame!"

Or have I uh misinterpreted that somehow?

books about Qabbalistic symbolism and Aleister Crowley count.

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:04 PM (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

madonna RIP thread

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000844.html

-- and what, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:44 PM (Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:44 PM) Bookmark Link

^^ this is great. I've still to read the Da Vinci Code - I tried it once and it was so bad I couldn't get through more than 10 pages.

I loved watching the reactions of devout Catholics who read The DaVinci Code!

-- HI DERE

The only devout Catholic I know who has read it said it was a confusing, badly written load of rubbish and that anyone who thought it was some kind of threat to the church was hugely mistaken (The church itself may not agree, of course, as it has repeatedly criticised both the book and the film).

(However, I'm almost 29 and I write about Yes so I probably have no ground on which to stand.)

xposts

nothing against HP as a kids' series, but i don't get it when people pretend they're actually good literature. jk rowling is an AWFUL stylist, can't write "she said" without tacking on a pointless adjective like "heatedly" or "furiously," can't describe anything for shit (if i hadn't seen the movies i still wouldn't understand what was happening in quidditch), has a bad sense of humor (lame "wacky" character names, boring repetitive sub-nickelodeon look-how-mean-the-grownups-are! type stuff, slapstick that would seem forced in an ernest movie), and used her clout as the world's most popular writer to publish at least five 900 page books that could've each been cut in half without losing anything. the biggest HP fan i know admits all this stuff and says she just likes the atmosphere and plotting (which are admittedly well done).

she was talking to j0rdan

No, I remember this argument a while back, and it was Jordan, not J0rdan.

i think it would be defensible for a grown-up to be really into harry potter as like a bonding experience with their child and therefore recommending it to others for that purpose, though i guess that doesn't really apply to ethan

I'll interrupt my conversation with myself to ask if you actually have an idea why these books (which I've never read either) have become so unprecedently popular, far more so than anything else in their genre IIRC.

(I saw the 1st movie on TV and thought it was kind of OK-ish but the reception wasn't that great.)

xposts to J.D. but open question obv

u guys are all too cool for skool

ok ok i get the annoyance at these people but honestly, making a big deal of how you're NOT into harry potter isnt much better

lol xp with deej

it's like strutting around talking about how lame barney the dinosaur is

we're just waiting for someone to equate not liking harry potter to the holocaust in typical ILX style

laurel, i'm not against fantasy or magic as elements, it still comes down to the writing and the audience. it seems like most people i know who still read stuff in the fantasy aisle do it because they're used to it or because they like the genre tropes, not because they think that's where the best writing is to be found.

also, i'm not personally interested in lit aimed at a young/YA audience, although i'm sure there's some decent stuff to be found there that kids will remember fondly.

those in this thread seem mostly mostly NOT into weirdo harry potter culture and its prophets more than actual harry potter

Re their popularity, I think I've said before that it has a lot of do with the size of the target generation, and the resources of those who are purchasing for that group. When the HP books started coming out, we were coming off of a giant boom in children's picture books because of a generational wave and the fact that their purchasers had money to spend on books, and those readers were just aging into middlegrade chapter books and YA lit.

Right now picture book are down a fair bit from then, printers and publishers have been feeling it for a few years already. I know my company has def shifted to doing fewer pict books, and making them really commercial in nature for guaranteed sales, but our Young Adult novels are still doing very well, and that program just keeps expanding. I imagine we'll see another shift in a while.

it's like strutting around talking about how lame barney the dinosaur is

-- s1ocki, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:12 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

if i had ppl treating me like some bitter shriveled up funhater for not spending weeks of my life immersed in barney the dinosaur i would be talking about how lame that shit was too

btw people still talk about harry potter?

immersed in barney the dinosaur

there's some sick stuff on the internet i tell you

ive gotten more messages linking to that overdub of 'hit em up' over a barney episode than i have even heard people talk about harry potter in the last year

barney im sure would advocate for better understanding and more hugs between the two embittered potter war camps

if i had ppl treating me like some bitter shriveled up funhater for not spending weeks of my life immersed in barney the dinosaur i would be talking about how lame that shit was too

These HP fans sound like Christian missionaries.

I haven't ever had anybody harangue me about these books. The only author that's ever happened with was Dan Brown, for some strange reason.

http://beldar.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/15/daniel_radcliffe.jpg

see see !!! harry potter is a gay serial killer now i hope youre all proud of yrselvs!

the worst when was i was a temp with this one company for a year, i think it was '03 - '04ish. i was the youngest person there and was harangued about harry potter + dan brown + the passion of the fucking christ.

in middle school/early high schools everyone equated skinny + short + brown hair + glasses with looking like harry potter and i think that was the only time i really got teased in school

cross post to "guys being called cute" thread

weezy potter

("Looking like Harry Potter" surely > "looking like Steve Urkel")

i have a pic from a few years ago where i look kinda potter-ish and my friend looks like a lesbian folk singer

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/onion_news438.jpg

kog...aw forget it

if i had ppl treating me like some bitter shriveled up funhater for not spending weeks of my life immersed in barney the dinosaur i would be talking about how lame that shit was too

-- and what, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:17 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

don't you work at a puppetry center? how has that not happened already?

ha is that Dan Brown?

xps

lol taking sides: that pic vs this pic

http://a521.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/72/l_662610ec0196b9233e40d5b387a6f638.jpg

i have a pic from a few years ago where i look kinda potter-ish and my friend looks like a lesbian folk singer

-- latebloomer, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:31 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

dont talk about gabbneb when hes not even posting on the thread

don't you work at a puppetry center? how has that not happened already?

-- Alex in Baltimore, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:34 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

most dudes i work with dont give a fuck man. do you have ppl forcing you to get bladerunner style eye implants?

I once lost a close friend to The Celestine Prophecy.

OMG LB that is a pretty griffyndor face u r making!

When you said your friend looked like a lesbian folk singer, I assumed the friend was a girl.

lol whatre u working on there lb?

yeah lb that is scary

the paneling, the g chord, awes~~

Is your friend Fleur Delaceur!?

NB who the fuck names characters things like FLEUR DELACEUR or whatever.

Yr lesbian friend is hott.

Wait, argh, did I say that?

it was a graphic design project lol

my face im making at that pic is the same as scully there

awesome aliens swag wall over there

hell yes. i'm hardcore. xenomorph 4 life

Daniel Radcliffe: [about Maggie] Alright when she gets back, make up some excuse and leave, okay?
Andy Millman: Why what have you got planned?
[Daniel pulls out a condom]
Andy Millman: You... unravelled it then?
Daniel Radcliffe: Yep. Ready for action. I just hope its big enough.

the x-files poster RIP though. kitty casualty

lol that scene was soooo funny !!!! xp

i'll read this thread when i get to work but

and god forbid you mention that youre reluctant to read a bunch of 800 page kids books or you get accused of lacking their bullshit sense of wonder or being some square adult to their whimsical peter pan self-image

-- and what, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 16:13

lol welcome to my apartment

Furthermore, I don't even really understood the impulse to make everything you like a communal, shared thing

My answer for this is very straightforward; the closer the things I like are to the mainstream, the more money the people who make them earn and the easier it is for me to find them.

http://www.stingfornolte.com/theplay.html

It was a warm night, as well it should be.

Good catch, a.w.

HP as cultural phenomenon is interesting. But the bits of film I've seen are kinda all I need.

I've read them all, and generally enjoyed them, but I can't share the obsession. I think I grew up reading children's books that I still find to be brilliant and moving and funny (specifically, Moomins and Daniel Pinkwater) and HP is just kind of fun, but not worth rereading, not all that well written.

I read the first three books as part of a cultural studies class I did at UC Santa Cruz in 1999 -- yes, yes, I know -- and enjoyed them a lot, but I gave up after about 50 pages of the fourth book. Too long, too much time, and I have other books I'd rather be failing to read. Did I miss anything? I figure I'd better off just waiting till I have kids of my own, so at least I'll be excited to find out what happens at the end. (I don't know any spoilers from the last book.)

I always thought The Da Vinci Code, however, was authentically shite -- I sold about 10 copies a day when I worked at a bookstore in 2004 -- but I read it last year, and it wasn't half as bad as I was expecting. That guy can write way better than, say, George Pelecanos (who's a great scriptwriter for The Wire, but can't write a narrative sentence for toffee).

I'm not sure if this says anything, though, except about my falling standards.

dont get the complaints about the books being too long, the type is huge and they take like 2 hrs to read

That guy can write way better than, say, George Pelecanos (who's a great scriptwriter for The Wire, but can't write a narrative sentence for toffee).

im not really a pelecanos fan but dan brown is worse than 90% of the people in my undergrad creative writing class. which is saying something.

ha if you think your creative writing class is bad...

My English Professor's a HACK

The thing that bothered me about the guy who was pestering me about not reading Dan Brown's books was the line "You're a librarian, you should have read these books by now" -- as if they were part of the Western canon and I was some kind of philistine for not having read them.

I read a couple of these a few years ago and found them almost unreadable as about the only thing Rowling appears to be able to do competently is set up a plot (which she then proceeds to fuck up) I'm a great big sf & fantasy geek and I still found the HP books to be a trial.

I'm not being down on people who enjoy children's books, as there are several I still enjoy myself, I just wish they'd focus their energies on good ones. Ursula le Guin's Earthsea books come to mind; the early ones at least. As do Alan Garner's Alderley Edge books. And the obvious elephant in the room of His Dark Materials.

Possibly what we're doing here is just whinging about how the mainstream seems to have inexplicably taken to its collective heart a bunch of books that we think are a bit crap.

That guy can write way better than, say, George Pelecanos (who's a great scriptwriter for The Wire, but can't write a narrative sentence for toffee).

Well, that's some bullshit right there.

yeah, seriously! Pelecanos is great!

DAN BROWN (a better writer than george pelecanos):

Renowned curator Jacques Saunière staggered through the vaulted archway of the museum's Grand Gallery. He lunged for the nearest painting he could see, a Caravaggio. Grabbing the gilded frame, the seventy-six-year-old man heaved the masterpiece toward himself until it tore from the wall and Saunière collapsed backward in a heap beneath the canvas.

Read the first one a couple of years ago to see what all the fuss was about and I don't think it cuts it as a children's book, let alone a "proper" grown up read. Bland, simplistic, badly paced...

None of the weirdness and humour you'd expect from a kid's fantasy story. Bored me to tears. One woman at work in her forties who loves Harry Potter also collects Beanie Babies, nuff said.

Okay, I'm somewhat overstating re: Pelecanos (his dialogue is pretty great), but his sentence structures are soooooo awkward. DB's books (like the best JK Rowling) have a cracking forward momentum, which is a talent in itself, even if their prose is turgid.

(Harry Potter, though: it's no Barmy Jeffers and the Quasimodo Walk.)

I haven't read all this thread but just to validate my assumption that it was a sausage party I did a ctrl+F for "eat pray love" and got the expected result

I'm lucky I guess that my exposure to "mandatory culture" comes mostly from peoplewatching on my subway ride. Like after TWBB came out and 15% of america went out and tried to read "Oil!" but only got halfway through.

in my office the most common non-work-related convo topics are UFC/MMA stuff and Rick Ross tracks. We used to talk football in depth big time but the dude who anchored those chats don't work here no more ;_;

JK Rowling is no Dahlberg, i'll tell you that much

Eat Pray Love is a book for professional sociopaths.

huff, puff, blow house down

Murder Rape Pillage

can somebody quote a passage from harry potter they think is worthwhile?

Goblet of Fire opening is pretty nice IIRC

I really liked Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell in this genre

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/the-cutie-voicemail/3849904270

this is funny, and apropos!

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_in_frenzy_about_little

if people have fun reading, who gives a fuck?

I haven't read any of the books or seen the films and have absolutely 0 desire to do so. I do find Potter crazed adults really creepy though esp because the ones I seem to encounter don't seem interested in reading much else.

I'll interrupt my conversation with myself to ask if you actually have an idea why these books (which I've never read either) have become so unprecedently popular, far more so than anything else in their genre IIRC.

well, they're certainly fun to read - i read all of them in about a week last summer before the last book came out. i think there's something universally recognizable and comforting about them: they're basically all just leisurely-plotted mysteries, with comfortably familiar-seeming characters (precocious overachiever girl, annoying best friend, mean relatives, wise old headmaster) and the same basic setup in each book. of course, rowling's not content to just do that, she wants to write something epic and huge and "dark," and she's just not really good enough. i mean the chapter where the white witch is introduced in the first narnia book is more powerful and memorable than anything rowling did with lord voldemort in like 3,000 pages.

Which is making me think -- how well do you think they'll pull off the new Narnia film?

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/745/115230.JPG

the first narnia film was so boring. so dreading #2

i agree. my suggestion: don't go and see it.

the first narnia film was so boring. so dreading #2

It certainly did a piss poor job of capturing any of the imagination and wonder of the books.

movies based on fantasy books are always doomed to fall short for me because the point is this stuff can't actually exist, much less be photographed. the fantastical magickal bits in fantasy movies are always such a letdown, it's like, oh, well, i guess it does exist then, this crazy shit can be contained and pinned down and captured by a camera.

my sisters friends wrote the first narnia movie - she gave me their email addresses and i pitched them a spinoff staring lucy and the talking beavers - but they never wrote back ;_;

i agree. my suggestion: don't go and see it.

-- Upt0eleven, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:07 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

probably not gonna be an option.

movies based on fantasy books are always doomed to fall short for me because the point is this stuff can't actually exist, much less be photographed. the fantastical magickal bits in fantasy movies are always such a letdown, it's like, oh, well, i guess it does exist then, this crazy shit can be contained and pinned down and captured by a camera.

mainly because they try too hard to nail specifics. all you need to know is right there in a succession of two-dimensional 32-color sprites from 1989, fuck some overcooked pixar dragon bullshit

grown-ups who are really into console fantasy rpgs

I know a few.

i don't agree with what tracer says but then i never read the LOTR books before seeing the visually-awesome movies.

i work with these people. they're all boring

― jergïns

yes

I had an argument about this with a friend last night. He said I was being and dick and should stop hating and then I felt sorta bad about it. I don't care if ppl read HP but the ones who get so into it? Basically this . . .

i dont wanna sound like a dick but seriously these are kids books and theyre like 800 pages long and theres all these retards in line with like lightning bolts drawn on their foreheads what the fuck about this appeals to a sane adult xp lol theyre my co-workers too

― and what, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:12 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

On the other hand, maybe I am being a dick about it or maybe I'm just jealous because there's nothing I am THAT into. I don't know.

i am literally the only one of my friends who hasn't read all the books/seen all the movies. feeling like a scrooge.

Imo it's unlikely that you're jealous of these people. There's nothing wrong with having a passion but Harry Potter, seriously?

They all need beating around the head with the heaviest tome.

i saw about forty facebook updates on my page the other night along the lines of "@ en route to see potter" or "# at potter" and every single one of them had a couple of replies like, "omg tell me how it was!" the worst part is sometimes i think a lot of these adult potter stans barely read any other books.

Omar: I haven't read any of the books or seen the films and have absolutely 0 desire to do so. I do find Potter crazed adults really creepy though esp because the ones I seem to encounter don't seem interested in reading much else.

― ENBB, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:56 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

Nick - OK yeah I don't think I'm actually jealous but after the argument (said friend not a fan he was just trying to say maybe we should hate on everything so much anymore) I just felt kind of bad and judgmental.

ya i mean like my irl friends in town. :D the weird thing is these aren't people who only read harry potter and twilight, these are grad students and english professors, so it makes me feel like maybe i'm being unfair (i've read the first two books and seen the first two movies, but apparently they've gotten way better since then?).

what's better, lord of the rings or harry potter

People that hate on haters are the absolute worst. "Live and let live, yeah?" UMM NO.

I LIKE being angry and judgemental about certain things. Such as this.

yeah it sort of annoys me, more the kind of "oh how can you not read harry potter" with a fond look in their eyes.

I'm sure there are exceptions but generally once someone has marked themselves out as a major HP fan I am fairly sure I have no shared taste in books.

omar otm too, I really suspect these people don't read any other books.

imo harry potter/LOTR and all that is great if you're 12 years old but at a certain point you just gotta grow up. it reminds me of all these people i know who are actually sincerely looking forward to GI joe.

But he's a real American hero etc.

I think it's just the extreme fanaticism that bothers me most. Lord knows I've read and enjoyed plenty of things that other people probably wouldn't consider good and/or serious literature.

wish burt_stanton was still alive to let us know what he thinks of harry potter

enbb's read every tom clancy novel iirc

It's true. #1 fan.

Huh, the people I know that are big HP fans are also big literature fans in general. For a while I had two bandmates who would talk about Harry Potter only when they weren't talking about Infinite Jest.

Two sides of the same coin there.

Getting the impression that a high proportion of people who are vehemently anti-reading Harry Potter are people who don't read fantasy/genre fic to begin with? Not including Dan Perry, obv.

xxp I am still reading Dragonlance. Or, well, the slightly more literary equivalent(s).

― Laurel, Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:19 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark

That's basically where I'm at. I'm just now trying to break into crime fiction with some of the more obvious choices. I picked up Dhalgren, though seeing as (by reputation, as far as I've heard) it's supposed to be the Gravity's Rainbow of Sci-fi I should probably sit on it and start with something else.

Where should I begin with fantasy stuff?

I actually think Dhalgren isn't that bad of a starting point -- while its scenario is post-apocalyptic it feels less like sf and more like imaginative critique of a collapsed society. (I have a soft spot for the book as it was a paper on that and James Baldwin's Another Country that got me into UCI and more or less determined the course of half my life so far.)

Oops, I'm repeating myself:

Actually, what's funny is that the two other people I know who would talk excitedly about Harry Potter also talked excitedly about Infinite Jest, so I'm not sure we can really generalize a demographic here.

― jaymc, Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:42 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

x-post -- As for fantasy -- well, Tolkien and Robert E. Howard for the basic tropes, really. But then I'd go to Le Guin's Earthsea books as the beginning of what's been a decades-long uncoordinated effort by any number of authors to up-end and resist said tropes.

i read 5 of the books, thought the 5th one sucked and that the series was clearly running out of steam. gave it no more thought. what's funny to me is that the books are such a fucking breezy read (if u r an adult) that i don't really see how they lend themselves to hardcore fandom. probably my misunderstanding tho.

that said i would never hate on someone who was into them unless they were totally creepy about it--even dressing up is lame but not really that big of a deal. i have a rep among ppl who have known me for a long time of being judgmental abt stuff--i've been trying to get rid of it for years tho--life's too short to neg everything etc. etc.

my main line of defense is that i grew up reading all kinds of crappy/awesome fantasy books (like dragonlance and all the other tsr books, jane yolen, whatever), so harry potter doesn't hold any special appeal to me (and doesn't seem as good as the stuff i read as a kid, whether that's because of rose-colored glasses or not).

i feel like the people who are really into harry potter may be into lots of other great literature, but may not have been fantasy/sf junkies as kids. or maybe that's totally off.

dhalgren is amazing btw.

(xposts)

Well then. I've got one to look forward to. (Dhalgren, to be clear)

As far as fantasy goes, I've read the first four/two LOTR books (the last two/one/yknow-whatever, had the ending ruined for me by a less than considerate individual so I never read it/them) and not much else. I find him a little exhausting...like he was purposefully exacerbating every final detail. So I'll go from there, I'm writing down these other names. Thanks!

guys can we just relax and share a chuckle over some star wars fan art

http://www.starwalking.net/events/force_3_5/van1.jpg

I liked the books lots.
I read other books, too, sometimes even complicated books.
I have no interest in the Twilight books, like not even a little bit, but I did watch the movie for LOLs (did not disappoint).
The Harry Potter movies are pretty good fun if you like that kind of thing.
I will wait until the enthusiasm dies down to go see the new movie because I don't like lines or crowded theaters.
I was pretty into fantasy/sf stuff as a kid, and read the first HP book because I thought it was something I would be super excited about when I was little.
I don't stand in lines with lightning bolts on my face or collect Harry Potter merch or read or write fan fiction or consider myself a part of any on-line HP fandom, but sometimes I think I might like a Ravenclaw scarf.

im fine with all this stuff, like not a huge fan, but read the books when i just wanted something easy and cruisin' to read, saw the movies cuz i had to but i'd prob watch tehm anyway

i don't know ANYONE who's a major stan of this stuff but plenty of ppl who just like... like it

i always forget how annoyance at coworkers is the subtext of so many ilx threads!!

ha that van! if only that guy was electrician who dressed like a jedi instead of muralist.

I currently only know one "grown-up" who's really into Harry Potter - and he's a gay English lit major who works for the Gap. I'm not entirely sure what his interest stems from - he's a bit of an anglophile so maybe that has something to do with it.

(I did have a coworker years ago - a middle-aged woman also into um, Jimmy Buffet - who was into this shit and it was super-irritating. I preferred it when she stuck to stories about being a bellydancer in LA as a young'un)

Stewart Lee has a great bit about being told constantly to read Harry Potter. "No I haven't read Harry Potter. I'm a 40-year-old man."

As a 40-year-old man, I can agree.

I don't know anyone personally who loves Harry Potter so much that they talk about it all the time (or even often?) - I like all the books fine, read them to my son and am happy that my daughter is liking listening to them (I just really want her to catch on to reading to herself in the worst way!). I'm taking my son to see the new movie on Sunday; it should be fun, but probably not the highlight of the summer or anything.

I have actually run across a number of people who I went to college with who refuse to read the Harry Potter books because they are "about magic" and therefore, you know, they might encourage kids to become witches or something. (I try to understand these Christians, but I'm afraid their attitudes are foreign to me...)

Also, fwiw, I'm not a big science fiction/fantasy person - although I love a lot of Ray Bradbury stuff. I think I've just never gotten around to getting into s/f/fantasy genres...

If you've willingly watched the movies on your ownsome, you should really count yourself into Harry Potter as much as reading the books. No adults willingly watch Escape from Witch Mountain or the Henna Montana movies as a casual activity, rite?

No adults willingly watch Escape from Witch Mountain

if we're talking the original I might watch it for nostalgia value...

pretty sure its "hannah montana"

henna montana is the teenage goth girl version

I read and enjoyed the first four books but I'm buggered if I'm going to waste time reading the rest and spoiler the films.

^^ "yes yes, I had a similar situation"

I can't remember whether it was after the fourth or fifth, but obviously they were getting quite long, and I'd forgotten all the details from the previous one, and I was like ... no way am I re-reading the entire back catalog just to know what's going on in the latest doorstop, I will happily just watch the movies to find out what happens

By the way, one of the most fun things about reading them -- and surely the reason grown people dressed up and went to release parties and got all giggly about them -- was that it WAS pretty cool to re-experience that childhood thing where you're mega-excited about the next book in a series and you get it in your hand and you spend, like, the next 24 hours doing nothing but totally immersing yourself in this swept-up reading style, the kind of reading you might once have done under the covers with a flashlight because your parents told you to go to bed, etc. (I recall doing that with at least one of the early ones, and it was pretty fun and nostalgic.)

This is a tremendous failing in adult literature if it cannot also inspire this kind of excitement. Where are the Infinite Jest parties where people dress up like tennis rackets? (I never finished this book so all I remember was it was about tennis.)

xpost you moved back in with your parents just to read a book? weird.

http://www.neighborhoodies.com/enfield-tennis-academy-p-179.html

This is a tremendous failing in adult literature if it cannot also inspire this kind of excitement. Where are the Infinite Jest parties where people dress up like tennis rackets? (I never finished this book so all I remember was it was about tennis.)

― Philip Nunez, Friday, July 17, 2009 1:43 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

seems to me that a) adult literature can and very often does inspire excitement and that b) the kind of excitement that "adult literature" inspires is of a different kind than the sort inspired by harry potter, i.e., it has a different set of goals and a different set of strategies to accomplish those goals

umm yeah

also umm if there were more books in the Infinite Jest series that I could have gotten excited about devouring the day they came out, the world failed catastrophically in communicating that fact to me

Infinite Jest II: Jest Harder?

I mean I do recall with that book in particular having that kind of experience -- when first reading it in college I once stayed up all night with it, for no good reason -- but what Max says about goals and strategies is kinda key here, surely? That excited-kid-reading feeling depends on having stories that are breezy and immersive and not particularly challenging, or anyway nothing where you're meant to be taking time with the prose, nothing with a density of ideas you'd want to stop and chew on, etc. ... just something that engages your imagination and then lets you experience it.

infinite jest II: jest by dawn

This is a tremendous failing in adult literature if it cannot also inspire this kind of excitement.

excitement, the yardstick of all human achievement

parties where people dress up like tennis rackets

i think it's a little weird that there are some people out there who feel the only way to get some excitement out of literature and film is to read harry potter and turn off their brains to enjoy transformers 2.

"Consider the Lobber"

A few things about me:

I have never seen the Lion King, or any Disney movie since Aladdin.

I have not read a single word of a Harry Potter book or seen any of the movies. I do find Daniel Radcliffe somewhat attractive, and am glad that he is a homo.

I enjoy a lot of weird fantasy/sci-fi stuff, but mostly Samuel R. Delany and Philip K. Dick type shit.

wait harry potter is gay

I've read all the books and enjoyed them all to varying degrees, and seen a couple of the films which I found underwhelming. Never intend to read or watch anything Potter related again (unless I have kids I suppose). Nothing wrong with that surely?

nb there are some kids' fantasy writers I absolutely love, but Rowling isn't one of them.

yeah i love these books but i started reading them when i was 12. after that, it seemed kind of silly to stop just because i grew up. only fannish thing i've done: when i was 15 i hosted a HP christmas party with my sister for all our cousins aged 16 and under. i would prob host an IJ party too now but i have a feeling it's not gonna be as much fun.

the only adults in HP fandom who truly annoy me are creepy shipper types who get into arguments whether hermione should end up with ron or harry or whatever.

xpost - there are different varieties of excitement, guys, geez

(although omar, I guess you're saying you're creeped out by people who only recognize that one variety? that's fair)

grownups who are really into harry potter fanfic

hermione should have ended up with snape
ginny with bellatrix lestrange
and luna lovegood with hagrid

obviously

parties where people dress up like gay tennis rackets, and the gay tennis rackets are addicted to pot, and there's this crazy party game that's an insane cross between Quiddich and Eschaton

I had an argument about this with a friend last night. He said I was being and dick and should stop hating and then I felt sorta bad about it. I don't care if ppl read HP but the ones who get so into it? Basically this . . .

I wanted to play devil's advocate but then realized: Fuck it, Ethan's right. HP seems so utterly... bland. I once suggested my friend DaVinciCode. Maybe there was some underlying wickedness because she HATES anything remotely to do with pop culture. If it isn't in the canon and made before 19th century, she hates it. She frothed at the mouth for about two months. Then he friend raved about the book so she frothed a bit more. hahahahahaha

I do find Daniel Radcliffe somewhat attractive, and am glad that he is a homo.

Uh, no, he's not.

Infinite Jest II: A little bit longer

Infinite Jest II: Electric Boogaloo.

Infinite Jest 3: Return of the Ninja Master.

Perhaps to redress this imbalance, all the mad Pynchon fans on ILE could arrange one big FAP for the day when Inherent Vice comes out, and all queue up outside the same bookshop dressed as giant cheeses, mechanical ducks and coprophiliac dominatrixes?

YOU GUYS SHOULD DO THIS, EVEN IF IT IS IRONIC FLASH MOB MOCKERY. fake it till you make it!

actually i think we already this with in rainbows

yeah I read that among DFW's papers they found a series of outlines for spin-off from IJ

Infinite Pest was about the employees of an extermination company, one of whom snagged a copy of The Entertainment after going to the medical attache's house to deal with a bedbug problem

Infinite Breast had The Entertainment winding up in the glitzy world of Los Angeles, based partly on research DFW did for that article about the AVN awards -- shares a lot of characters with Infinite Vest, which was about the world of fashion

Infinite Guest was sort of a Kafkaesque tale about a fat person who goes to a friend's house and watches The Entertainment forever while living off his stores of fat

a scan of his computer revealed that he was logged into several different internet message boards as "Lord Custos"

(wow, I only just noticed the visual similarity of INHERENT VICE and INFINITE JEST)

I have no interest in Potter or Twilight novels, but I wonder if it's wrong-headed to criticize them because they may be the only books some adults read. Isn't that better than those adults not reading at all?

I have an acquaintance who (not the brightest person I know - she once asked a crowd, post-Geico commercial, if those had been real cavemen. she was serious) who is working her way through the Twilight novels. I'm glad they exist so she's doing something other than watching American Idol or reading Us Weekly or whatever.

Is Twilight really any better than US Weekly?

uh, stevie, then which one is the homo? the red-hair? it's either the ginger or Radcliffe, and i'm betting on radcliffe.

he once asked a crowd, post-Geico commercial, if those had been real cavemen. she was serious

she's able to function on a day-to-day basis?

I have no interest in Potter or Twilight novels, but I wonder if it's wrong-headed to criticize them because they may be the only books some adults read. Isn't that better than those adults not reading at all?

I don't really see the benefits of reading if all you read is crap.

literacy?

"he once asked a crowd, post-Geico commercial, if those had been real cavemen. she was serious
she's able to function on a day-to-day basis?"

She's smart enough to crowdsource, apparently!

if all you read is crap you should probably die

good riddance

RIP crap readers

Functional for the most part, yes.

I assume she gets the same benefit out of reading Twlight that ILXors get from their serious lit - enjoyment, imagination provocation, something to think about, etc..

hmm, yes

question: what is the purpose of reading a book

what if you could actually read crap

if she thinks the geico dudes were real cavemen i think someone should actively get her AWAY from books like twilight

like actual crap--what would it say to us

what a terrible thread for light fantasy romps

like actual crap--what would it say to us

"how could you leave me behind, after all we've been through", presumably

what if you could actually read crap

spatilomancy, spatalamancy - a form of divination involving the examination of animal feces.

does it count as "divination" if I figure out that, e.g., my dog is getting sick?

I ask because who doesn't want to be able to tell people he's a spatilomancer

uh. . . me!

why the fuck is ilx so snobby about books? For a place founded largely on love of popular music, it seems to look down on popular books way too much

http://spadirection.eu/colonic%20bits/bristol/light%20greyish%20stools.jpg

READ THE SIGNS

I was sitting behind a girl on the bus reading Twilight & I timed how long it took her to turn a page and it took 5 min 20 seconds.

This book apparently offers DELERIOUS EXTENDED PLEASURE.

^^^Abbott I hope you were using a stopwatch

I was!

I'm really into timing things.

that's kind of a personal nightmare (someone sitting behind me timing how long it takes me to read things)

(not that i'm a slow reader but still)

why the fuck is ilx so snobby about books? For a place founded largely on love of popular music, it seems to look down on popular books way too much

― Dr. Johnson (askance johnson), Friday, July 17, 2009 1:49 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

because the books you read directly correlate to how intelligent you are, duh

i've thought about this a lot and decided who gives a fuck?

me

I give a fuck for all those who cannot

the fuckless

LOL at all the ILXors who are bitching about adults who read kids books but somehow knew all the details about everything that happened in the Star Wars prequels

why the fuck is ilx so snobby about books? For a place founded largely on love of popular music, it seems to look down on popular books way too much

There is a thread on ILM where this point was taken up -- I think it was about one of the Believer music issues? -- and a bunch of people very pro-pop-music people made very, very passionate arguments that books were just ... different, somehow. (Haha I actually don't know how much I agree or disagree but the arguments in question didn't seem all that convincing to me!)

i don't mind if people read these, i mind when this happens

the last one came out on a saturday, right? someone at work came up to me monday morning--and keep in mind, i had never talked with her previously about these books ever:

"So. What do you think so far? Did you finish?"
Me: "Did I finish what?"
"Harry Potter! It came out Saturday. . ."
Me: "Oh, I haven't read those. . ."
"WHAT OMG U CRAZY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. . ." etc etc

Exactly.

you can be really into whatever you want, but it doesn't matter what it is, if you are dressing up and camping out for it, i'll think you are a loser.

What if it's CAMPING?

i had another person do the exact same thing to me an hour after that first encounter

aren't you a librarian or something

you can be really into whatever you want, but it doesn't matter what it is, if you are dressing up and camping out for it, i'll think you are a loser.

― goole, Friday, 17 July 2009 19:02 (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tent or it doesn't count IMO

but yeah who cares i always like to balance out like a "serious" book by reading a popcorn type book next, like after crying of lot 49 which i had never read before i just read The Strain, this crazy action vampire zombie book by guillermo del toro...totally retarded but fun.

i'd like to see a line of people camping out in front of REI whenever new camping gear is going to drop

aren't you a librarian or something

not a public librarian, no

oh so it's enthusiasm that you guys have a problem with, cool

i don't have a problem with enthusiasm
i have a problem with a) insanity and b) people telling me that i'm crazy for not reading a book

LOL at all the ILXors who are bitching about adults who read kids books but somehow knew all the details about everything that happened in the Star Wars prequels

I am not one of these people (lolz I only sat through the first one and even then just barely) but even so these are not really comparable situations, since most adults who saw the prequels did so in the hopes of re-experiencing their childhood thrills. Its not like adult readers of Harry Potter have been reading Harry Potter since they were kids.

adults who only read HP and no other books are pretty lame. if you read other stuff, it's cool.

i don't know about anyone else but yeah i don't like enthusiasm, that's basically it

xp ok i guess que doesn't have a problem with it, but i do

kinda like if you only listen to hannah montana and you're an adult.

never make someone a priority if they consider you an option

the name of the thread, fyi is

grown-ups who are really into harry potter

not

grown-ups who read harry potter

listening to young adult music seems more pedo than reading young adult fiction for some reason.

For a place founded largely on love of popular music, it seems to look down on popular books way too much

Uh, you are assuming we embrace every single pop record. No, we don't.

listening to young adult music seems more pedo than reading young adult fiction for some reason.

I know what you mean, but reading kiddie books just seems a bit... silly really. If I didn't read it as a kid, I sure as hell will not be able to conect now. Hence why I don't read Dr Seuss for example. Or Alice in Wonderland.

Its not like adult readers of Harry Potter have been reading Harry Potter since they were kids.

this is sort of funny, because I actually think some of the success of the books among adults is how much they slot REALLY neatly and REALLY familiarly into these core notions of their genre -- like as an adult you can start reading the first one and you're pretty instantly familiar with its world/tone/style. so in a sense, umm ... maybe people have been reading it since they were kids.

btw, the lit-vs-music thing was something I tried to bring up here, and then discussion extended below: The Believer Magazine - New Issue with Free Covers Comp.

i think people should read whatever the hell they want

I think a lot of these people have kids. So sort of enjoy it vicariously.

yeah for the most part, not really that different from liking pixar movies

I don't give 1/8 of a fuck about Harry Potter, but I sure wish I could find the edition of "The 13 Clocks" with Simont illustrations I loved when I was a tyke.

Yeah, I have no problem with adults reading HP, but the ones who dress up or write fan fiction etc. are troubling.

what about adults reading HP lovecraft?

Like these crazy ladies:

http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Snapes_on_an_Astral_Plane

Or Alice in Wonderland.

that's kinda a weird reference to make, wouldn't really consider it "children's" literature

what about adults reading HP lovecraft?

People who dress like Cthulhu are cool.

yeah grownups should dress up as businessmen or housewives

Or Alice in Wonderland.

that's kinda a weird reference to make, wouldn't really consider it "children's" literature

― Bizarro Morbius (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, July 17, 2009 2:18 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what? it was written specifically for a child

that link is terrifying

xp

"since most adults who saw the prequels did so in the hopes of re-experiencing their childhood thrills"

I dunno, man, how jazzed would you guys be if there was a Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing prequel coming out where Peter finds out his mom is sleeping with Satan, and one year later Fudge is born?

star wars blew my little mind, judy blume didn't

what? it was written specifically for a child

I know - but its just so weird and dense and free of genre conventions - seems unfair to lump it in with something like Harry Potter, which is basically a mass marketed genre excercise that basically just pushes a lot of pre-existing cultural buttons.

basically I like the word basically

y'know - the protagonist with a secret destiny, the gang of kids vs. an ancient evil, the school setting, eccentric Britishes, etc.

star wars blew my little mind, judy blume didn't

― Mr. Que, Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

can't be said enough.

btw i read all the harry potter books and can barely remember anything about them.

seems unfair to lump it in with something like Harry Potter, which is basically a mass marketed genre excercise that basically just pushes a lot of pre-existing cultural buttons.

― Bizarro Morbius (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, July 17, 2009 2:26 PM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

huh tough shit

Yeah I don't know if it's possible NOT to make money with a book about English private school kids living in a Victorian-esque magical kingdom

"I named him 'Jar-Jar', to remember"

Yeah I don't know if it's possible NOT to make money with a book about English private school kids living in a Victorian-esque magical kingdom

for realz. can we list how many of these there are (starting with CS Lewis and Peter Pan, presumably?)

The Young Ones

Neil the Hippie and the Lentil Soup of Doom

I thought Bastard College was a public uni?

I guess I'm just angsty because underlying this whole thread there seems to be the idea that "adults" must read "Literature" or else they're dumb or inferior or something. I've seen this on other threads too. It seems to me there is nothing necessarily virtuous or necessary about reading serious lit. But, then, I am a public librarian so I guess it's kind of my job to think that.

harry potter is mass-marketed, sure, but i mean you really can't blame the books tbh, it's just smart to want to make a fortune on this shit.

askance johnson you may be interested in the results of this poll in interpreting the opinions of ilxors:

How smart are you, relative to everyone else in the world?

I think it's less "you must only read canon" and more "you're selfishly encroaching on youth culture" like the creepy old guys at an all-ages show.

YOU ARROGANT MOTHERFUCKERS

― n/a, Friday, August 10, 2007 1:59 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OTM

"I am a public librarian so I guess it's kind of my job to think that."

I hope this never happens, but have you seen kids not being able to get the latest book because adults have all the copies on hold?

underlying this whole thread there seems to be the idea that "adults" must read "Literature" or else they're dumb or inferior or something

I think only a couple ppl said that. Most other posters (myself included) are annoyed with ppl constantly talking about this and posting about it elsewhere online. I don't care what ppl read and don't necessarily think their enjoyment of HP reflects badly on them unless it's the only thing they read. I just don't want to fucking hear about it anymore!

I work with some of these people and am at my wits end . . . sorry.

It seems to me there is nothing necessarily virtuous or necessary about reading serious lit

people are going to read whatever they enjoy, obviously, but i don't even really know what to say about this. smart, interesting, well-written books are smart, interesting and well-written. my brain feels nice when i read good writing.

harry paeder

many xposts - to be completely honest, thus far I think Rowling & co have been relatively not bad as far as cash-grabbing and licensing/merchandising and running-into-the-ground of the property go -- obviously part of that is a market-based desire not to "cheapen" it, but I get the sense she has some basic reasonable principles on this front? I dunno, I guess the real test is when the thing starts to feel "over," like whether things go all-out around the last movie and cheapen away.

I'm sorry y'all have to hear too often about a popular thing lots of people like and talk about -- it's an inevitable hazard of things being popular and liked

to be completely honest, thus far I think Rowling & co have been relatively not bad as far as cash-grabbing and licensing/merchandising and running-into-the-ground of the property go -- obviously part of that is a market-based desire not to "cheapen" it, but I get the sense she has some basic reasonable principles on this front?

http://store.offbeattreats.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/candy-bertiebottspouch.jpg

http://swordsandreplicas.auctivacommerce.com/Harry-Potter-Movie-Set-of-Eight-Replica-Magic-Wands-P21129.aspx

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3115452&CAWELAID=176001128

you will have to post pictures in this thread for a year and a half to overcome that "relatively"

http://www.cosplaycostumecloset.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=3087

lolz nabisco what crack are you smokin

no i think i made my point with the 500 dollar dobby

The jelly beans are incredible. They are really holding those food scientists back at the jelly belly labs. They should remake "Perfume" but set it at Jelly Belly and Grenouille makes crazy orgy jelly beans.

lol i think what nabisco means is that the franchise will never be considered "run into ground" until there's a cgi spinoff movie starring dobby, voiced by shia lebeouf.

btw i don't there is anything wrong with people collecting this stuff but to pretend that HP is not cash grabbing is insane. And she deserves it--she's got a great story with regards to being a single mother, writing the first book in a coffee shop, etc etc.

Weird. Infinite Jest is by far and away my favorite book, and I want an Enfield Tennis Academy shirt 10000x more than I want a Ravenclaw scarf, but I'm afraid if I wear it, some angry anti-postmodernist is going to punch me in the back of the head on the train.

Maybe there is an IJ/HP connection, like People Who Like Really Long Books about Specialty Boarding Schools.

honestly, I think for 7 (+1) mega-successful books and 6 blockbuster movies or whatever, the level and ubiquity of cheap money-raking has been "relatively not bad," especially as you get around the core stuff involving the actual story -- if, four years from now, there is a Harry Potter Saturday-morning cartoon and Rowling's got hacks turning out extra "tales of Hogwarts" books and whatnot, I will have turned out to be wrong about that, but from where I'm sitting right now, like, the sum total of branded/licensed stuff is like the GDP of Mozambique versus like Dora representing the entire EU

I think it's less "you must only read canon" and more "you're selfishly encroaching on youth culture" like the creepy old guys at an all-ages show.

― Philip Nunez, Friday, July 17, 2009 7:35 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hmm...i'm 34...i sometimes go to AA shows if it's a band i like. what's the cutoff phil?

i don't want to be...selfish (not even really sure what that means)...but def i don't wanna be creepy.

fuck it...ILX always makes liking stuff sound like to much goddamn work.

I should probably clarify that I give a lot of branding/licensing a pass as being film-based branding licensing, as opposed to her doing a pretty decent job of protecting the legitimacy of the STORY and CHARACTERS, which is actually her turf

oh my god that Dobby gives me $500 nightmares

fuck it...ILX always makes liking stuff sound like to much goddamn work.

Oh god yeah. And always something you like, will get trashed into the ground and make you feel crap.

ILX always makes liking stuff sound like to much goddamn work.

√√√√√++++ true

Do you know what I like is a lot of that HP stuff kids get really into making themselves, arts & craftsy stuff= a nice (wholesome) way to spend summer vacation/expand repertoire of skills.

i'm always sorta jealous of dudes i went to high school with that are totally disengaged with culture and just like do projects around the house and stuff like that...

i would probably feel better if i did more landscaping projects and shit like that

but i dunno i guess i am who i am

i just always remind myself that liking music and shit to this degree is probably more of a mild form of mental illness than something to be proud of.

"i sometimes go to AA shows if it's a band i like. what's the cutoff phil?"
I don't think they're there to see the bands... unless it's the Donnas or something.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1102/1468094213_d148456888.jpg

Like this is a totally silly & stupid thing but a teen made it & that's way more knitting skill than I got/

(sez 'Trust Snape' btw)

Weird. Infinite Jest is by far and away my favorite book, and I want an Enfield Tennis Academy shirt 10000x more than I want a Ravenclaw scarf, but I'm afraid if I wear it, some angry anti-postmodernist is going to punch me in the back of the head on the train.

dude me too. let's each buy ourselves one and form a gang.

nabisco u crazee

Word up, Mr. Que.

there's a harry potter knitting patterns book. oh yeah.

u see kids take up knitting = they can't smoke bcz their hands are occupied = Hogwarts destroys Big Tobacco

nobody goes to all age shows to skeeze on 18- girls

SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE

JEFFERSON CITY, MO–Marv Reynolds, 42, father of 11-year-old Ashley, slipped into his daughter's bedroom for one more look at the liner notes to her Britney Spears album Monday. "Just like to see what my daughter's into these days," said Reynolds, perusing the photo-packed booklet accompanying Spears' Oops!...I Did It Again for the fourth time in as many days. "I bet she'll put this on the moment she gets home from soccer practice in 20 minutes." Upon hearing a car pull into the driveway, Reynolds, who has previously browsed the liner notes to his daughter's Mandy Moore and Christina Aguilera CDs, put the Spears disc back exactly where he found it and left the room

sorry, i just saw 'mayor of sunset strip' on hulu and was thinking of this guy
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/4/4818576_17b09fb427.jpg

apologies, non-creepy all-agers!

Maybe there is an IJ/HP connection, like People Who Like Really Long Books about Specialty Boarding Schools.

i actually think this is an interesting comparison. i'm almost to the end of IJ now - too early to say if it's a favourite, but really loving it so far - but i've been keeping tabs on some of the discussions over at infinite summer (IJ bookclub - they're up to abt pg 200-something at the moment) and people keep pointing out interesting stuff that i miss reading on my own, like this.

i say this as a big fan obvs but i like to think that heavily-detailed books like HP prepare kids for a lot of the close reading in serious lit. i mean so much of the criticism abt the length of the fourth and fifth books seemed really hollow once the last book came out because so many plot details and little subplots dating all the way back to the first book that seemed irrelevant then, came around full-circle in the final book. i.e. being really fucking obsessed with this book can pay off in a big way if you're really invested in the story.

and given that it really is so damn easy to read and visualize, i also think that it's not that different from say, LOST in that it borrows liberally from preexisting genre traditions and invites obsessive attention to detail so it's not surprising that people, including adults, really get into it. there's plenty about the basic narrative structure of the thing that just sucks people in beyond the fact that it's a story designed for kids. (btw do people who don't watch LOST get annoyed when LOST-fans talk abt their crazy theories?).

I'm pretty on board with that, Roz. (I also like LOST. Heh.)

I wouldn't say annoyed but when I hear people at work obsessing over LOST details it's about equal in my brain to most of the sports talk I overhear there, ie cryptic.

ha don't worry, most LOST fans don't understand half of what they're talking about either

"i like to think that heavily-detailed books like HP prepare kids for a lot of the close reading in serious lit"
I dunno, they make kids read the bible, too, right?
(I'd rather kids read HP than NIV)

No one makes kids read the bible these days. At least not in any kind of serious critical sense.

i'm just hoping that at least some of them go on to read more than just HP, and that reading such a lengthy series means they won't be terrified by long or "difficult" books.

I remember picking up Gravity's Rainbow because it was supposed to be like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, but it turned out really boring by comparison.
(Thinking how much more fun it was to read Hitchhiker's probably also terminated Infinite Jest for me.)

So the HP as gateway drug to better books thing sounds iffy. Maybe Rowling can go on talk shows and rep for Bolano or something.

I remember picking up Gravity's Rainbow because it was supposed to be like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Oh man.

xp yeah that's just the ideal scenario but there's a good chance that HP at least leads to His Dark Materials or Narnia. or Hitchhiker's even!

I don't think what was being suggested was necessarily "a gateway drug to better books," but something more like "not bad practice at some of the elements of literacy, thinking, critical skills, and reading habits that might serve you well with adult books down the line"

(e.g., reading Stephen King as a pre-teen was in no sense a "gateway" to my reading "better" stuff later, but not the worst way to learn basic stuff about how to read a novel)

^^^^ this

Man I devoured Stephen King books in junior high and I really think it strengthened my love of reading, not to mention being able to speed up my reading a bit.

magic is real fyi

The Stephen King thing was my hook into reading too... I kind of miss those days of staying up really late and reading so fast that I'd sometimes miss important stuff because I just had to find out What Happened Next.

hmm I never had this Stephen King period. If there was anything that I read (or MADE me read) in that eager-page-flipping way it was probably Tolkien and Lloyd Alexander

Ha! Are you sure it wasn't King's book on writing that taught how to read King's books? (After I read that I suddenly understood King's recurring motifs of doctor characters, characters who represented King's abusive/absent dad, themes of alcoholism, etc...) I think it was called Danse Macabre.

ha I had a King period and a Lloyd Alexander period (ha, and a Michener period)

A bit like Shakey Mo here in that it wasn't King for me, but that both Tolkien and Alexander were huge faves. A fair amount of standardized "gateway" novels passed me by at the time (for instance, I did read, of all things, Gravity's Rainbow when I was in eleventh grade as an assignment from my English teacher, but only read The Great Gatsby just the other week).

what is michener like?? i've always been curious

loved the shit out of stephen king as a kid though read all this classic period shit

I did a sixth grade book report on Christine.

Very detailed.

His basic plots are: humanity is obsessed with sex, religion, power and control, decent people aren't perfect, if you're lucky you get some space to live out your life in, and there's always maps.

Michener was horribly boring iirc. My dad had Alaska sitting around forever so I picked it up one boring summer day and couldn't get very far into it before giving up.

(That was to Matt about Michener.)

Pratchett doesn't get a lot of love on this board (aside from Dan Perry :)) but my gateway series was Discworld. haven't read a new one in years though.

Oh I totally loved King and Michener when I was in Jr. H.S.

Ha, yeah, these all sound like hallmarks of whatever that age is where you're figuring out how to regularly read adult-type books for pleasure.

Like just to get really obvious and detailed about this: I can remember being in maybe middle school and reading King or Koontz or something and coming across novel techniques -- like radical POV shifts or stylistic tricks having to do with, say, interior monologue -- that seemed strange and striking and mind-blowing. Somewhere along the line you learn that some of those things are common or basic, some of them start to seem actively cheap, etc., but you've got to learn them for the first time someplace, and in my head King was still really charmingly good in that one where some sections were narrated by a dog.

(HP books seriously don't have anything remotely formal going on with them that I remember, although I've been told the later ones are a lot more interior? But, you know, there are things you get used to that aren't formal.)

grown-ups who are really into breaking down the formal structure of harry potter

The later HP books are more complicated than the earlier ones, but I don't remember any interior monologues or POV shifts or anything like you're mentioning. Then again, I glanced at the end of the last book the other day and realized I didn't remember a whole lot of it, even though I've read through it twice.

xp ENBB, you read Michener in Jr high and I'm 37 and I have not read ONE! ;_;

"King was still really charmingly good in that one where some sections were narrated by a dog."

Which one is this? Does he literally go "rowf rowf rowf! Rowf arowf rowf rowf roouuuf? Rowf!"

That's gotta be Cujo.

Which is, btw, and incredibly dark and depressing book.

I don't remember having any author phases. Good Omens (6th grade) is the first 'adult' book that sticks out to me (that wasn't a classic like A Connecticut Yankee/Tom Sawyer/A Christmas Carol) or something completely awful in hindsight (I read the first dozen Xanth novels before starting junior high).

Which one is this? Does he literally go "rowf rowf rowf! Rowf arowf rowf rowf roouuuf? Rowf!"

lolz would read

i think that was a Koontz book actually

I'm thinking of one of the King "fantasy" ones -- Eye of the Dragon, maybe? I dunno, there was a whole bit from a dog's perspective where the dog was following a scent, and all the scents were described visually as like threads and patches of color the dog was navigating.

i want to check out michener just cuz i associate it with "grown up books" i used to be curious about when i was a boy.

anyone read "the thorn birds"? that's another one i think of in that same vein...and the puzo godfather book

In retrospect I guess the dog didn't actually narrate so much as the narration was from the dog's perspective? I dunno, it was a long time ago

i remember a pretty good NYRB article from the early 2000s where the author tried to make a case for king as the 20th century melville, what with his obsessive detailing of rural / suburban life in maine in the 60s to 80s

nabisco - now I'm really curious which King book you mean! It sounds familiar, but...

btw in looking through a list of King books in order to sort out which one I was thinking of, I was surprised to find this

My Pretty Pony - 1989 - Drama - 100pp - Limited edition

An elderly man, his death rapidly approaching, takes his young grandson up onto a hill behind his house and gives the boy his pocketwatch. Then, standing among falling apple blossoms, the man also "gives instruction" on the nature of time: how when you grow up, it begins to move faster and faster, slipping away from you in great chunks if you don't hold tightly onto it. Time is a pretty pony, with a wicked heart.

his obsessive detailing of rural / suburban life in maine in the 60s to 80s

One of his core strengths, and a core strength of any 'genre' writer -- namely, what is slipped in under the overall umbrella they're writing in. (Looking at Le Guin, for instance -- her anthropology training completely informs nearly everything she writes.)

you would hope people have moved beyond looking at le guin as a sci fi writer

though you'd hope the same thing of samuel r delany but it seems like he's just moved from one ghetto (sci fi) to another (queer lit)

I'd certainly hope but alas, the world disappoints.

slipping that reference in there because samuel r delany's "stars in my pocket like grains of sand" was pretty much the first "serious lit" book i read as a teenager

I'm trying to remember what my first Delany books were and I think they were the Neveryon books. Which probably *really* caused my head to spin more than I knew at the time (I was, what, sixteen?).

never got the appeal of Delany

The only person I know who is really into Harry Potter above the age of 18 is the same person who got together with a group of friends, got dressed up and took a limo to the newest James Bond movie and may possibly be the product of inbreeding.

got dressed up and took a limo to the newest James Bond movie

wkiw

you know sometimes inbreeding creates geniuses. like, mad geniuses, but still.

Over in this bit about HP being more openly embraced by conservative Christians these days, this bit in the comments:

Kid parolees working at the Beat Within juvie magazine in San Francisco beg to differ: They call HP a homie. "Look," one says, "he's got serious beef. He's all hood--foster family after parents get themselves killed, sidecar called Dobby who's in rags and always getting clowned on. And don't foget all them drugs helping him work magic and fly."

Wow it's too bad I wasn't at work today and I missed this thread, otherwise I could have gotten absolutely nothing done at work today! Good job, everybody.

Ronald D. Moore's Battlestar Galactica juggled heavy duty space opera and fantastical, magic elements. But his next project will leave space behind, in favor of a world of pure magic, in the vein of Harry Potter for adults.

According to Deadline, Moore's new project is "described as an adult Harry Potter set in a world ruled not by science but by magic," and he's making it for NBC. And Sony, which signed a development deal with Moore back in May, is pretty serious about moving forward with this — there are nearly $2 million in "pilot and series penalties," meaning Sony has to pay up to $2 million if the show doesn't film both a pilot and an ongoing series.

Ronald D Moore could make a puppet rock opera interpretation of Jersey Shore and I would eat it with a frakking spoon

But I'm a ridiculous Moore & HP Stan so....

this thread is completely fuckin hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDMVfFgykP8

http://topcultured.com/15-hot-harry-potter-fans/

i was trying to think who was more fun to bait between adult harry potter nerds and people who do status updates about not caring about harry potter and then i realized that i was the toxic sludge clot in the heart of twitter

On the bus today, passed by a house that someone had named 'Dumbledores'. AN ADULT DID THAT FFS