JOSS WHEDON SUPER POLL WITH CORRECT FORMATTING

I am sure this has been done before, but... JOSS WHEDON SUPER POLL for those wondering

This guy co-wrote Titan A.E.? He is a co-Bluth???

obv buffy hands down, firefly a decent 2nd

Firefly 'cause it was solid from start to finish, too much dross in Buffy (excellent though it was, for a time).

not really into the stuff he's known for, Firefly/Serenity is aight i guess, so i'm tempted to vote for something else but i have no idea how much of a role he actually played in Toy Story or Roseanne or Parenthood or whatever.

how can i vote for his run on the x-men

I considered joining Firefly/Serenity into one line but they kind of are two separate entities, not least because doing a movie let him take some harsh-ass risks that it would have taken 3 seasons on the television show to get around to.

xp: oh I should have included that

I am not redoing this poll again though

i wanted dollhouse to be so much better than it was, still disappointed

voting firefly cuz i never got into buffy. couldn't make it through the first few discs, and i'm not the type to just skip ahead to when it 'gets good'

1. dr horrible
2. dollhouse
3. firefly
4. dont care

xpost yeah i am w/ian on that

Buffy is one of those shows that I always enjoy while I'm watching it but never actually have any desire to continue watching once the episode ends; the only exceptions to this were the death of T and the introduction of DW, which was just astonishingly awesome (and lol I never saw the end of because I was watching it on syndication before going to work and I missed the last two episodes of that season, and due to aforementioned inertia I never tracked it down to see how it all resolved itself)

Voted Buffy. I still haven't gotten around to Angel (because I hear its patchy) and Firefly (because it sound Syfy for my tastes, even though the pedigree is awesome and I know I should)

would vote Astonishing X-Men too xpz

(if I'm being real tho space cowboys > angsty teens)

I have the Angel DVDs in a shelf next to the TV (given to me, not purchased), need to get around to seeing them so that I know whether it's worth having five David Boreanazs staring at me when I'm on the couch.

actually some of them may be looking pensively to the side

honestly this guy is the best. so what he ended up making jack, he made apocalypse now first.

so i'm tempted to vote for something else but i have no idea how much of a role he actually played in Toy Story or Roseanne or Parenthood or whatever.

yah speed & roseanne are the best things on here but not stuff i think of as 'whedon projects'... probably gonna vote 4 dollhouse cuz it was p ok

as far as chatty cutesy TV auteurs of our time i'll take Sorkin over Whedon any day

oh hell no, Sorkin is the worst

the fundamental impasse

^ reason i'm not shocked some dude's a sorkin nut

the fundamental impasse

lol

coked up policy wonk banter > adorable people with adorable names quipping adorably at each other

srsly though, "A Few Good Men" was good... and basically that's it

I am in fact refusing to see "The Social Network" because of the taint of Sorkin wait that sounds wrong

TSN seems not to offend most Sorkin haters too much fwiw

my wife loved it, but she also liked "Studio 60" and therefore is not to be trusted

"coked up policy wonk banter > adorable people with adorable names quipping adorably at each other"

have you no heart

sorkin is basically david e kelley with twice the IQ while still reconizably David E kelley

whedon does have a tendency to drop into adorable to the adorable degree and i really can't stand Kaylee in Firefly for that reason. but buffy/willow/reynolds/zoe/jayne unfuckable characters afaic

unfuckable with i should say. some of them are quite fuckable

who's whedon the smarter version of? whoever created gilmore girls?

KAYLEE IS AWESOME FUCK YOU ahem

Whedon is in a class of his own and if you can't see beyond, nay, embrace the adorability well than so be it grumpy bear

whedon is the talented/smarter version of comicbookresource forum posters

Astonishing X-Men over Buffy, because JW took his eye off the ball and let other people shit up the latter too much in the last season

Kinda funny that the Buffy Season 8 comic hasn't been mentioned (and doesn't deserve to be tbh)

Whedon is the smart Kevin Williamson

I'll take that

i don't really get the sorkin whedon comparison anyway since it seems to me that whedon's strengths are in character writing and sorkin's are in dialogue writing. that might seem like a silly dichotomy bc so much character is revealed thru dialogue but i'm always dazzled by what sorkin's characters say but never really feel like i know these ppl. i fall in love with whedon's characters but they never seem to say anything particularly interesting.

well the whole cloth of my dichotomy was exactly what i said, "chatty cutesy TV auteurs of our time." you're right that their respective approaches to chattiness have different aims and results, though.

Straczynski is an interesting comparison too bc he's another great writer but kinda a plot-writing savant imo, not great characters OR dialogue. Still compelling tho.

i don't know if i've ever fallen in love w/ a Sorkin character but i know i couldn't fall in love w/ a Whedon one because they seem more painstakingly designed for nerd bonerz than Kelly LeBrock in Weird Science.

i mean you can't fault the guy's eye for casting though -- a WS poll of the Firefly actresses would be impossible

^^^^ OTM forever

how much buffy have you seen, sd

I guess Sorkin is unlikely to ever take a shot at writing comics like Whedon and JMS.

Sorkin is too busy doing coke to write a comic book

he'd rather do an earnest show about someone trying to make a Doonesbury-esque comic strip in the face of corporate and political pressure

can't not vote buffy. firefly deserved a lot better though. did fewer people really watch that than dollhouse?

"Whatever happened to Chuck Schultz? Walt Kelly? The greats!"
"You can't merchandise satire, Bob."

i mean you can't fault the guy's eye for casting though -- a WS poll of the Firefly actresses would be impossible

― hong does your geirden gro (some dude), den 28 april 2011 21:31 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not really. CH never looked smashier imo

Another write-in vote for Astonishing X-Men - his run was one of the best examples of classic superhero comics made after the 80s, when grim and gritty stories replaced Claremontian melodrama and high adventure.

Gina Torres's initials are not "CH"

i really wish i "got" this guy cause hes a big deal to so many people whose tastes i respect and with whom i usually agree.... but i just dont "get it."

"nerd boners" is really the most succinct explanation

i admittedly have not seen much Buffy and have kind of lived in fear of coming to grudgingly enjoy it. i kinda liked that movie version everyone disowns, though.

The movie is hilarious, IMO.

I always wanted Luke Perry to do a Pike cameo on the show

or at least bring the paul reubens vampire on

* Atlantis: The Lost Empire (2001) – treatment
* Captain America: The First Avenger (2011) –
* The Avengers (2012) –
* The Cabin in the Woods (TBA) –
* Goners (TBA) –
* Buffy the Animated Series (2004) (unaired)

xp: oh I should have included that

theorem: dan should slow down when creating polls, sometimes

I know he only did one season, but Roseanne has brought me more joy than everything else on this list combined (excepting Toy Story).

It's an opinion that has won me the contempt of many but i think i marginally preferred Angel to Buffy. Angel started slowly and was fairly patchy at times but felt like it had more depth at its best.

kinda tempted to vote for 'buffy the animated series' just because in theory at least it's awesome

xxxxxpost - most of his movie writing jobs have been to take scripts and make them work smoother and add jokes. I believe he was the last hackscriptwriter for Toy Story and X-Men and Speed to go to. As opposed to, you know, writing them.

I don't think there is contempt for people who like Angel better than Buffy. It's odd, Buffy at its peak is way better than anything television has ever done imo but at the end it got so shoddy that the Angel episode shown after it (the way it was shown here anyway) was so much better that I had to wait for the vhs (lol) to remember that nothing could touch certain parts of Buffy. Really though they were totally different shows, something that doesn't get acknowledged often and Buffy could have never done something like the amazing 'Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been'.

I always wanted Luke Perry to do a Pike cameo on the show

― da croupier, Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

or at least bring the paul reubens vampire on

― da croupier, Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Yes and yes.

Voting "Angel" because its wrapup was ultimately so much more rewarding than Buffy's was, from SPOILERS Wesley's death to Lorne killing Lindsey then taking a powder to Angel's "I'll take the dragon." Fucking awesome.

Whedon's one of those guys with such bad luck I sometimes think it really is all luck. Like, smart guy, third generation TV writer (not many of them!), but remarkably hit or miss for a guy with a vision. "Buffy" may be the only time his talents were totally in sync with the Zeitgeist. Though I know he remains grouchy about his treatment re: "Toy Story," which apparently has its fingerprints all over it.

Some Toy Story backstory here:

http://classic-web.archive.org/web/20060102103544/http://www.infocusmag.com/05augustseptember/whedonuncut.htm

Parenthood (1990) – writer, co-producer

that's such a great movie! i fucking love it! didn't even know he was connected to this. YAY

buffy buffy buffy (tv show of course)

he wrote some really good episodes of roseanne iirc

btw, i picked buffy tv; no brainer

he wrote some really good episodes of roseanne iirc

― horseshoe, Friday, April 29, 2011 5:04 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

ok you tipped my scales to roseanne

Yeah, the 89/90 season was when she was working at the salon and Jackie was a cop iirc

fyi his Astonishing X-Men run is somewhat overrated

like, it was good, but it wasn't OMG AMAZEBALLS

i wanted dollhouse to be so much better than it was, still disappointed

― i can tina turner (elmo argonaut), Thursday, April 28, 2011 12:06 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm, but a friend of mine keeps trying to convince me to give the second season a chance. she claims it got better.

Parenthood. Except for Toy Story I've been underwhelmed by everything post-1990 (including Astonishing X-Men). I just don't like his schtick, but for some reason I keep giving it a chance.

i want credit for not posting all the "buffy's not that into *you*!" and "he doesn't like *your* schtick!" thoughts i'm having except oops

Firefly is what I'm most defensive and touchy about, which seems the best benchmark for Whedon fans including myself.

i still haven't finished firefly.

neither has Whedon.

speed is amazing, voted for that, didnt know he wrote for roseanne and was tempted but idk how much he contributed

i felt dollhouse S2 was insanely rushed towards the end. (granted, it may have been good for whedon, i mean he could have used a kick in the pants to keep things moving in the later seasons of buffy.) some of the big reveals in the last few eps just didn't make sense to me. i think the premise of the show is engineered for a multi-season series, capping it at 2 seasons kinda forced some weird moves imo. xp

firefly w/ ease

Parenthood (1990) – writer, co-producer

that's such a great movie! i fucking love it! didn't even know he was connected to this. YAY

this is the original spinoff TV show with Ed Begley Jr and the young Leo DiCaprio, FYI

lol that's quite a big difference (although i'd be kind of curious to see that, just to see if it was any good!)

ed begley jr supposedly has one of the hugest schlongs in hollywood

can we vote for ed begley's schlong?

Ed Begley's supposedly huge schlong has been one of my favorite hollywood gossip facts for years and every time I see the guy in something I think, "Oh hey, he has a massive dick."

I still haven't gotten really into Buffy yet so I voted Roseanne cause, well, awesome.

I voted Roseanne just based on the projects presented and not necessarily the level of involvement Whedon had with them.

wd not leave Whedon alone with children for 0.1 seconds

me: "huh he was a co-writer on Speed!"
N1ck: "I know plenty of cowriters on speed"

Haw haw.

I think I'll have to vote Firefly. Had no idea he did a season of Roseanne.

- Buffy
- Angel
- Dr Horrible
- Firefly/Serenity
- Dollhouse
- Astonishing X-Men

But honestly Firefly, Dollhouse, X-Men all occupy 4th place because I don't want to diminish how much I love love love love love them. Like just writing them down in a list like that makes me feel bad.

Joss gets extra bonus points for always having great commentaries and doing great interviews and for being awesome in general.

this is the original spinoff TV show with Ed Begley Jr and the young Leo DiCaprio, FYI

Oh, hahaha, I am so dumb. :-(

and Ed Begley Jr is so hung! or so i have heard!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Hrmmm...Buffy Firefly tie...I can accept that.

needs a http://www.straitpinkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/faceoff2.jpg

Buffy Firefly thunderdome

so

http://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-feminist-hypocrite-infidelity-affairs-ex-wife-kai-cole-says/

enh

you know this may be controversial but I think someone can probably be a feminist and still cheat on their wife.

reading that mostly just made me feel gross. tmi.

yeah, same

From the guy who brought you

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-04/27/21/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-13858-1493341382-3.png

Fuck, that's really depressing reading. I had heard rumours of one affair but wasn't sure if it was just particularly bitchy fan gossip(although there was a nagging part of my brain that wondered if it was actually true)

Urgh, this is going to colour all his past work in a really bad way, isn't it.

you know this may be controversial but I think someone can probably be a feminist and still cheat on their wife.

― akm, Monday, 21 August 2017 08:53 (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's more the abuse of power and using feminism as a cover for shitty behaviour that are the issues.

I think "many, many days and nights away from home on business" was probably the cover, embracing feminism is more the gap filler / spackle / self-absolution

high-profile, performative male feminists often seem kinda try-hard and creepy tbh

i just hope marc loi's been keeping his nose clean, i dunno if i can handle another fall from grace like this

so seems like that horrible early Wonder Woman script was for real

glad someone's engaging with the real issue here

i haven't read that thing because i really don't care, but i seem to remember there was a thing about him hitting on teenage fans on social media a couple years ago? or did i just assume this is what joss whedon did?

imo the grossest thing about this is that apparently Whedon wrote a long narrative letter for his life that crafted his entire history of infidelity into some sort of narrative? she seems to have dropped some quotes from it

who the fuck does that? here, wife, is my treatise on the duality of man that explains all the affairs I've been having

honestly that's probably very common lol

Dr. Horrible Feminist's Cringe-Along Log

ok lol

I'm hoping this means that no one will ever quote any of his scripts' non-comedic lines as "clever" or "deep" ever again but I'm not holding out hope

um that is to say, I'm sure that's probably not the case

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/hating-on-season-eight/

wait

that thing about fucking new universes into existence isn't real, is it

that's how jim shooter created star brand iirc

well-played

As much as I'd love to indict Whedon for horrible comics, I don't think comic series based on television properties have any editorial oversight whatsoever. Sometimes it seems the token issue written by someone connected to the original property isn't even proofed by the writer.

you could tell me that an X-Files comic has established Mulder is a werewolf and I'd believe it

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/fox-mulder-goes-werewolf-for-x-files-2.html

so close

As much as I'd love to indict Whedon for horrible comics, I don't think comic series based on television properties have any editorial oversight whatsoever. Sometimes it seems the token issue written by someone connected to the original property isn't even proofed by the writer.

― mh, Monday, August 21, 2017 10:07 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He actually wrote a lot of those "Season 8" comics himself IIRC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_Season_Eight#Writers_and_story_arcs

Joss Whedon serves as "executive producer" for the series across every issue, giving his other writers notes on characterization, continuity and his overall concept in mind as he would when overseeing Buffy as a television series. Whedon wrote the first story arc ("The Long Way Home", #1–4), the fourth ("Time of Your Life", #16–19), the final story arc ("Last Gleaming", #36–40), and several intermediary one-shot stories (#5, #10, #11, "Willow", and #31). Comic and television writer Brian K. Vaughan became the first guest writer on the series, writing the second story arc "No Future for You" (#6–9). While Vaughan was not a "Buffyverse" staff member, he was a fan of both series (particularly the character of Faith) and Joss Whedon himself was a fan of Vaughan's Marvel Comics series Runaways, on which he served as writer during the period Vaughan wrote "No Future for You." Former Buffy and Angel writer Drew Goddard wrote the series' third arc, "Wolves at the Gate" (#12–15). Goddard first became a Buffy writer in its final season, starting with the episode "Selfless" and finishing with the Angel episode "The Girl in Question", which itself obliquely hints at the life of Buffy post-season seven. Goddard went on to become a writer for the movie Cloverfield and acclaimed American dramas Lost and Alias (all working alongside producer J. J. Abrams) while also penning the story "Antique" for canonical Buffy comic book Tales of the Vampires, which he references in "Wolves at the Gate".

Film, comics and television writer-producer Jeph Loeb wrote issue #20 of the series ("After These Messages... We'll Be Right Back!". Loeb had previously been involved with Whedon in the conception of Buffy the Animated Series, which never came to be. Following Loeb are Buffyverse alumni Jane Espenson, Doug Petrie,[28] Drew Z. Greenberg, and Steven S. DeKnight as well as comic book writer Jim Krueger, who each wrote an issue between issues #21 and #25 ("Predators and Prey"), which is a single arc told from a number of different perspectives. These one-shots follow the perspectives of Harmony (#21, Espenson), Satsu/Kennedy (#22, DeKnight), Buffy/Andrew (#23, Greenberg), Giles/Faith (#24, Krueger) and a Xander/Dawn issue which will also reveal more about Twilight (#25, Petrie).[29] Jane Espenson returned for a five-issue arc involving the character of Oz for issues #26–30, titled "Retreat"[30] and also wrote a one-shot about Riley. Joss Whedon returned to write two one-shots, "Willow: Goddesses and Monsters" and issue #31, "Turbulence". Brad Meltzer, author of several New York Times best-selling books and later both Identity Crisis and Justice League for DC Comics wrote the penultimate story arc of Season Eight, "Twilight", which is issues #32–35. Whedon himself resumes authorship for the final five issues (#36–40, "Last Gleaming") of the series, bringing Season Eight to an end.[31]

Dark Horse Presents has also offered several short, canonical side stories to the mix. "Harmony Bites" by Espenson and Moline is a fictional episode of Harmony Kendall's television series, tying into issue #21. "Vampy Cat Play Friend" is a fictional television commercial tying in with issue #22, written by Steven S. DeKnight and illustrated by Camilla d'Errico. Joss Whedon teamed up with Jo Chen to produce "Always Darkest", a depiction of Buffy's terrible nightmares, and Espenson teamed up with Moline again to produce "Harmony Comes to the Nation", a fictional interview for The Colbert Report where Harmony lays out her ambitions, both tying in with Jane Espenson's "Retreat" arc. Jackie Kessler wrote "Tales of the Vampires: Carpe Noctem", a two-part ministory with the previously unseen characters Ash and Cyn, about the consequences of Harmony Kendall's television series from a vampire's point of view.

Also since seeing the panel of Angel and Buffy boffing across the sky, I have not been able to stop giggling.

I stand corrected, these nerdos do care about these horrible comics

the internet sucks so bad

Very true

Which matters more out of wheedons work or his affairs or his feminist cred I can't summon up enough enthusiasm about any of it to discern

cool thanx for letting us know mate

Ugh, I hate stuff like this so much.

http://www.avclub.com/article/joss-whedon-was-never-feminist-259694

Why? I read it, I don't get it.

Biographical readings of art are boring and trite, is my principal objection.

that seems a bit of a stretch for what the piece actually says tho

i mean it starts with a straight-up critique of some aspects of buffy which have nothing to do, really, with whedon's personal feminism

The piece repeatedly draws connections between plot/writing elements, his public words and the alleged stuff in his private life.

That point of the piece is to situate the writer on the right side of the argument, and the rest is unimportant.

Re: whether he's a feminist or not - who cares? Seems more important whether (as the ex-wife suggests) he abused his position as producer - not whether, say, he was mean to kill off Cordelia.

Interesting that Kai Cole says she was diagnosed with complex PTSD. I have too many thoughts on this! C-PTSD isn't a DSM-5 disorder but does go a long way to describe (and help treat) trauma felt by systemic oppression, abusive relationships, or unstable family lives

personally I would like to hear more of the thoughts!

guilty lol

pic.twitter.com/8LIqaXgtye

— The MegaBee (@megabee) August 24, 2017