Bands/Artists whose imitators are better than they are

I'd say (sometimes) Yo La Tengo, The Jam, The Replacements (Misfits-era)... But then, I'm naive too.

The VU answer is a bit dicky in that obviously they inspired a lot of imitators who were/are a ton worse - but I think pretty much every facet of their art has been done better by someone taking a similar approach.

Although for some reason I keep wanting to say the Beta Band. Have no idea how I'd go about explaining that, though, so I won't even try,,,

i'm not entirely sold on anyone outdoing the Kinks, either. though i concur with the person upthread who considered the Replacements to be a Kinks imitator (at moments i think that the reason why Ray Davies never came to the US during that period in the Sixties was to avoid paying child-support to Ms. Westerberg in Minnesota ... )

Examples please (so I can disagree with them)

Spacemen 3 don't count. They did it more moreso than better.

On 2nd thoughts, I suppose Can and Neu! did.

(blah canon blah boring rockist blah shutup)

*unless you're a couple of hand puppets, in which case I applaud you.

The Bee Gees of course!

Anyway, I was thinking more Doors/Jim imitators=Iggy, Patti Smith, Nick Cave, Echo & the Bunnymen.

Good pop songs can have good lyrics if they want - a good backbeat is better sometimes. The Strokes' lyrics are far from awful and I adore the "catchy simple hooks". I think they imitate other bands as much/more as the VU, I just mentioned them cos they were the first lot that came to mind.

Oh Vey...

How Bizarre, how bizarre.

hahaha the hell they did

i still don't mind the strokes, but is there any truth to that rumor going around that their new alb is being produced by nigel godrich? haha, the mind boggles at how inconceivably bad that's gonna turn out!

And Pere Ubu were way better Captain Beefheart.

And Public Enemy (and lots of other rap acts, politically minded and otherwise) are better than the Last Poets or Gil Scott-Heron.

Eh? The Tubes better than Zappa? (jeri don't know me very well do she?)

And Pere Ubu were way better Captain Beefheart.

A closer call, but I'd still give it to Beefheart -- mainly because I wouldn't exactly peg Pere Ubu as strictly Beefheart imitators.

Dark yes, but metal, absolutely not.

Nirvana >>>>>>>> the Pixies or the Melvins or the Vaselines or whoever else they imitated

Refer to "This Charming Man" and its Motown shuffle. Now imagine it with nothing good about that combination (like Gene's "This is Not My Crime," f'r instance).

And the Auteurs (and London Suede) are better than the Smiths.

The Auteurs, ARGH! Pain!

I have no doubt about Lifter Puller being better than Pavement, though. But what's a good place to start?

Sublime are better than the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
P.O.D. are better than Korn.
Crazytown are better than the Chili Peppers OR Korn (but not Sublime.)

Everything being relative, I agree with this completely.

that totally trounced their minimalist asses in the song department

"The Model" has a melody and a beat, what more do you want? ;-)

I might take "I Got My Mind Set On You" over having tacks driven into my butt-cheeks.

How about somebody else's butt-cheeks?

*this may be a lie.

I should hear this Lifter Puller...

yeh i agree, i cringed on several occasions. some of you people are t-r-i-p-p-i-n-g..

I've already enraged several hilarious rockists to the point of incoherent internet fury (possibly) by suggesting that Electric Wizard do this to Sabbath. Now it's your turn for a spot of mild iconoclasm!

Wooden Shjips > Les Rallizes Denudes

I have this feeling occasionally about the self - titled Paramore vs. Blondie. I'll have to hear another album or two of new stuff though before I'd go around starting arguments with people about it though.

Wow I totally read this thread wrong. I was thinking about how over time The Musical Box became better at playing Genesis songs than Genesis ever was.

Aerosmith: Royal Trux

agree w/ this but then again I've never listened to aerosmith

listen to the "Get Your Wings" LP at once, it rules

Electric Wizard are a doom metal band from Dorset, England. The band formed in 1993 and have recorded seven full length albums, two of which are now considered to be genre landmarks: Come My Fanatics... and Dopethrone.[2][3] Electric Wizard's brand of doom metal incorporates stoner and sludge traits, with lyrics focusing on the occult, witchcraft, H.P. Lovecraft, horror films and cannabis.

Justin "Jus" Oborn is the lead vocalist, lead electric guitarist and lyricist of Electric Wizard, an influential doom metal/stoner metal band from Dorset, England.[1] Prior to forming Electric Wizard, Oborn was a member of the band Lord of Putrefaction, which changed its name to Thy Grief Eternal[2] and then to Eternal.

Justin was known as "Fuzz" by his friends at his primary school in Wimborne Minster.

imo this is always more interesting when the bands who do the "bettering" actually kind of epic-ly fail in their copy: see Miles Davis thinking he was playing music like Sly Stone or Jimi Hendrix on Bitches Brew, Led Zeppelin playing old blues songs, Magma wanting to play spiritual music a la Coltrane

I've already enraged several hilarious rockists to the point of incoherent internet fury (possibly) by suggesting that Electric Wizard do this to Sabbath. Now it's your turn for a spot of mild iconoclasm!

― imago, Thursday, April 17, 2014 2:16 PM

don't flatter yourself, you're just being roundly mocked as per usual

really does feel like ILM is entirely populated by jaded rock-critic canon-fodder [sic] sometimes

^delightful morbsian oh forget it

but yeah you're right, there's absolutely no way any sane adult could possibly commit the grievous aesthetic error of deeming Electric Wizard to be subjectively more enjoyable than Black Sabbath - it's impossible; such a person could not exist, and insanity is the only logical diagnosis

not heard electric wizard but their wikipedia page makes them sound like what the 'ukip and dragons' demographic (c) clive martin move onto once they graduate from biffy clyro

anyway, back to Dominique's interesting point...I'd say that black metal is a really fecund birthing-place for all sorts of incredible music that fundamentally & often wilfully misunderstands 'black metal' but is often far more thrilling (imo)

electric wizard are basically the movie 'the wicker man' if it was a band. no bad thing, srsly. they're not fkn coheed & cambria or such

I have no idea how imago jumped from "people are probably mocking you" to that sentence he italicised as though someone had actually said it.

Electric Wizard are alright, though.

Re: Favourite UK Bands by Gav in Other Bands & Artists

In no particular order:

Carcass, My Dying Bride, Paradise Lost, Therapy?, Anathema, Hell Is For Heroes, Godflesh, Biffy Clyro, The Wildhearts, Killing Joke, Terrorvision, Sikth, yourcodenameis:milo, The Horrors, Winnebago Deal, 80’s Matchbox, Electric Wizard, Fighting With Wire, Million Dead, Fudge Tunnel, Gallows, Oceansize, Send More Paramedics, Almighty, The Cult, Alter Of Plagues.

Posted on Tue, 1 June 2010 at 14:07

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/436839673625710592/LEEIOolR.jpeg

#10FavouriteBands Electric Wizard, Sleep, Nirvana, Jimi Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Steak Number Eight, Maiden, Nine Inch Nails, Biffy Clyro.

a la lamp

Carcass v good
My Dying Bride p good
Paradise Lost idk
Therapy? idk
Anathema v v v good
Hell Is For Heroes idk
Godflesh v v v good
Biffy Clyro yeah ok they're abysmal
The Wildhearts you cannot kill my love
Killing Joke v good
Terrorvision idk
Sikth idk
yourcodenameis:milo awful
The Horrors p good sometimes
Winnebago Deal idk
80’s Matchbox idk
Electric Wizard v good
Fighting With Wire idk
Million Dead frank turner
Fudge Tunnel idk
Gallows idk
Oceansize you cannot kill my love
Send More Paramedics idk
Almighty idk
The Cult idk
Alter Of Plagues idk

Gav is not doing too badly here imo

electric wizard's brit church of england horror steez is q similar to uncle acid and the deadbeats, nowhere fucking near biffy clyro's lamentable jock insouciance

i'm allowed to say that coz i was in scotland just now and i liked it so i'm kinda part scottish rn

Electric Wizard are good! They obvioulsy love Black Sabbath too, but coming at it from a sludge-metal, post-Melvins angle? I actually got into them before I delved into Sabbath, tho in all honesty, listen to Sabbath more now.

re: black metal, imago -- I can only speak for myself, but black metal has been an entryway into metal that no other genre (including Sabbath/Electric Wizard doom, or Meshuggah style prog-thrash) has sparked for me. There is something about it that lends itself to so many other kinds of music, and the range of bands who influenced, play or were inspired by BM is really big! That Darkspace you recommended is great, and tho it is clearly BM in style, it's also something I've since recommended to friends who either aren't metal fans at all (but who love, say, Swans), and to metal loving friends who normally listen to stuff like Electric Wizard ;)

Fudge Tunnel are local heroes. I don't even like them really but I'd be on their side in a fight.

I'm surprised by some of the "idk"s in that list.

3xps

lj have you really never heard terrorvision

and you feign ignorance of gallows but i refuse to believe you weren't a rat up the drainpipe of grindie in 2005

I think the reason I prefer EW to BS is the sludge-metal angle - the thicker sound, the murk, the roiling mist of sonic excess from which these dark British rites emerge - Sabbath have always been a bit thin for my tastes (I know this sounds preposterous - I should probably listen to them more, really; I only have the debut, Paranoid and Master Of Reality - is there another album of theirs I might prefer?)

Black metal has inspired so much of my favourite recent music that I'm seriously hesitant before ruling music out of being black metal; I'd like to think that the term itself is expanding as broadly as its attendant demeanour is applied to a wider palette of sounds. Certainly the more 'avant-garde' end of BM is my pet area and I can see why it'd appeal to fans of expressive & extreme music in other genres perhaps more than trad BM.

As for you, Dominique, I'm not going to adjudge any Rundgren comparisons :P

christ, why does it seem like I'd be into all sorts of terrible British noise-indie? ;)

gav's list is alright imo, pleasingly uncontrived, the first google result for clyro+wizard is pfunkboy bemoaning the former's presence in a kerrang eoy list in bookended by the latter, but it makes sense that out there in the real world brit rock club scene there is a nonjudgmental potpourri of terrorizer bands, ilm/wire favourites and plenty of mtv 2 dork rock

sabbath's 'thinness' doesn't really convey anything other than the morés or limits of 70s production though? it's not like there could possibly have been 70s music that sounds like xasthur either

VDGG were 70s music that I find to be an order of maybe 10^3 x heavier than Sabbath

alright im playing 'Track one from the album Black Masses (2010). Shoot me a message if you'd like a song uploaded that isn't already on YouTube' right now and i can see why you like this, but again it's almost like someone hearing the strokes in 2001 and saying they sound like how richard hell should have sounded, it's wisdom after the fact,the accretion of three/four decades of people crafting revisions and reductions of 'the black sabbath sound' that distorts perceptions of the original template

black sabbath don't sound like the retroactively imaged platonic-ideal-of-sabbath so much as they sound like a 70s rock band

Soft Machine had some fucking intense heavy moments too. Heft was there but a lot of it was in the prog/jazz fusion scene. Or Japan (LRD, Takanayagi etc). I think Captain Beyond are some incredibly good heavy rock from the start of the 70s.

That's a fair point though - I'm probably looking for something in Sabbath that isn't there? I did go in open-minded & haven't been convinced. EW bring the sonic shock and awe after the fact, yes, but I don't mind deconstructing narratives of accretion and lineage

you actually do need to hear those sabbath lps on vinyl if you're interested in trying.

in all seriousness. turn out the lights and spark a doob.

ok, some day I shall.

am listening to the 'black masses' album for the first time & despite really needing to go to bed am having trouble turning it off

are you still on a train

probably left what sense I had on one tbqh

Aerosmith: Royal Trux is wrong, at least with regards to Aerosmith's prime 70s records. And I say this as a Trux fan who got into Aerosmith after hearing Hagerty mention them.

I just listened to get your wings this is great

LOL what Beatles imitators are better than them? Cos if i've been sleeping on an album that is better than "Revolver" please set me straight!

imago listen to the black sabbath album sabatoge if the others are too lo-fi or whatever for you.

or the live album

past lives

I'd say Metallica did a pretty good job pretty much building their sound off Diamondhead (and others). Heck Metallica have recorded a pretty good amount of their tunes. I'd say that is the case of one band being relatively unknown and the other one taking a sound and heck even their tunes to the bank.

LOL what Beatles imitators are better than them? Cos if i've been sleeping on an album that is better than "Revolver" please set me straight!

The Rutles?

Lord of the thighs is such a great song,I've listened to it like 10 times and don't even care abt the dumb name now

Yeah that Rutles album IS really good!

Just don't say Oasis or something that doesn't make any sense.

surprised no one said the Monkees (altho I did almost post loloasis)

xps re aerosmith: listen to rocks.

his is always more interesting when the bands who do the "bettering" actually kind of epic-ly fail in their copy: see Miles Davis thinking he was playing music like Sly Stone or Jimi Hendrix on Bitches Brew, Led Zeppelin playing old blues songs,

Didn't think these were cases of people actually aiming for faithful imitation?

electric wizard are no iron claw.

Uncle Acid & The Deadbeats > Black Sabbath
Led Zeppelin > loads of old bluesmen

Suuns>Clinic at the moment, and Clinic put out a pretty strong album last year (Suuns was better)

And I'm nervous about writing this, but MBV is kind of an elephant in the room, I think.

xps re aerosmith: listen to rocks.

― sleepingsignal, Friday, 18 April 2014 23:42 (Yesterday) Permalink

super happy to have a new band to listen to now

never thought the new band would be aerosmith

xps re aerosmith: listen to rocks.

you know why they named it rocks?

admittedly i've only heard a handful of Royal Trux songs but it has never occurred to me that they might be ripping off Aerosmith.

Wooden Shjips > Les Rallizes Denudes

― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 17 April 2014 21:17 (4 days ago) Permalink

What Wooden Shjips releases sound like Rallizes? I never woulda thought to associate them. Shjips seem a bit more kraut and Rallizes are more Sister Ray kinda thing, at least what I've heard

someone saying Wooden Shjips are better than Les Rallizes Denudes is literally the craziest most morally reprehensible thing I've ever heard

VDGG were 70s music that I find to be an order of maybe 10^3 x heavier than Sabbath

― imago, Thursday, April 17, 2014 4:19 PM (4 days ago)

wait, what? are you operating on some special snowflake definition of "heavy"?

someone saying Wooden Shjips are better than Les Rallizes Denudes is literally the craziest most morally reprehensible thing I've ever heard

― smhphony orchestra (crüt), Monday, 21 April 2014 19:10 (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

srsly

xp yeah most people's definition of "heavy" doesn't include guy who plays acoustic guitar and no other guitar ever. i mean vdgg are heavy in their own way but if i tried to pass "killer" off to my metalhead brother as "heavy" i'd be laughed out of the room.

this thread can't help but make me think of the old saying "nanos gigantum humeris insidentes", which actually describes oasis fairly well now that i think of it

hammill most certainly has played electric guitar

skip to 6:27 of this and tell me VDGG aren't heavy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-6QXVFcczw

thought of a pre-70s example: 21st Century Schizoid Man ffs. I mean, I've recently heard and liked the Sabbath Bloody Sabbath album after various individuals grew piqued at my claims, but that shit's soft-rock compared to the Crimson at their fieriest

and m8 it's "nanos gigantum humero insidentes" if we're talking about oasis

VDGG were 70s music that I find to be an order of maybe 10^3 x heavier than Sabbath

― imago, Thursday, April 17, 2014 4:19 PM (4 days ago)

wait, what? are you operating on some special snowflake definition of "heavy"?

<3 VdGG and imago but lol

This whole thread, and no mention of Sunn O))) / Earth ?

again, if someone wants to talk about the sabbath/crimson nexus you really have to talk about iron claw- took their name from "schizoid man", aped sabbath, got themselves some ian macdonald-style sax and mellotron. their later recordings particularly, like "all i really need", right there.

hammill does play electric guitar, you're right. i'd kind of rather he didn't, like when he did that 16 minute reggae tune in 1976. vdgg "heavy"? sure, but generally in the same way as the first couple st. vincent records.

Why do I get this all the time, with so many bands?

Like, with Led Zep. I can name several bands who've taken their tricks and (imo) improved on them by miles, in terms of songwriting and sonics. It isn't ignorance (because I've tried with Led Zeppelin, repeatedly), so what is it? Cloth ears?

danava "one mind gone separate ways" = "achilles last stand"

― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:06 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you see, I absolutely love this Danava song but can't get into the Zeppelin. why? I don't want zings, I want to know if I've spoilt myself rotten with contemporary sonic standards and require electronic sturm und drang or tricksy songwriting in my classic rock to enjoy it at all

I mean, I've been really getting into Hawkwind's album Quark, Strangeness And Charm - it doesn't sound 'dated' at all, but this might be because it comes from slightly later on - maybe punk truly changed everything - maybe the psych-rockers started listening to prog properly - maybe everyone bought synths - help me out here

Captain Beyond's s/t from '72 nails it as well, so I'm not sure it's a modernity issue. I think it's about the extent to which genuinely progressive elements were incorporated?

or I may have ADHD

I also like Hawkwind's 'Warrior On The Edge Of Time', mostly coz of the mellotron

You can't even get into The Immigrant Song, really?

to add to that danava song, as above, lansing-dreiden 'disenchanted' >>>>>>>> everything new order ever did ever

I think ALS was a production triumph. How does Danava improve on it sonically? By adding that synth line?

There are countless ways One Mind Gone Separate Ways improves (for me) on Achilles Last Stand, to the extent it really is not the same song at all. It isn't just superficial stuff like an extra synth line - it adds several extra chords to the sequence, making it much less repetitive and imo more dramatic. There are more fun rhythmic switches, a better and more memorable bass line, different textures adding to the sense of a lush, orchestrated trip, and above all a clearer sense of development throughout the song, featuring a sick bridge section featuring both mellotron and horns falling headlong into a cataclysmic final build slathered in all sorts of astonishing synth bullshit, it's so amazing lol, I'm listening to it again right now in honour of them finally releasing a new album and it's just as incredible as it always was, but above all, it is extremely psychedelic in a way the original song just wasn't. I'd hardly call it an imitation, more that they had an idea based on ALS but took it in some insane psych-prog direction

I mean, you decide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdVrV1XQxXI

Sorry for taking nearly 8 years to reply