Steely Dan C or D?

so "nerdy" = "white"?

And having black musicians does not automatically make something funky. Witness Allman Brothers, Hootie, etc

A thousand apologies for mentioning "Allman" and "Hootie" in the same sentence. I'll burn in hell for that one.

And i'm all for reprising the old thread, just wanted to respond specifically to some of these posts first.

I don't see that you really had to repeat it, once was fine, he clearly just doesn't feel like it, who's it hurting to have another thread?

Very sanitized, and deliberately so. They would run the songs into the ground, doing take after take after take, in order to get each note precisely where they wanted it. Becker and Fagen were fanatical perfectionists, and when you strive for that much perfection, and do that many takes, the sound gets washed out. The spontainaiety gets left by the wayside. But that's the way they wanted it... they never had any aspirations to make "rock and roll." Quite the opposite.

That said, I do love this band.

Steely Dan = Smooth Jazz that it's okay to like. But not really that much better musically IMHO.

couldn't possibly be RONGer

steely dan were so cool they actually didn't know who larry carlton or joe sample even were when they worked with them

so ignorance = cool?

Uh-oh, I think res might accidentally cause some controversy!

They're still deathly dull.

This board certainly needs a few forthright opinions like that :)

Plenty more where it came from

NOW you tell us

Steely Dan is like the audio equivalent of some mullet haired 70's cokehead who wears giant brown sunglasses indoors, and tries to clumsily seduce blonde bimbos in his hot tub while bragging about his interest in 'photography.'

Truly, Steely Dan's addition to the cool canon is mystifying.

This board certainly needs a few forthright opinions like that :)

Tell me about it! This board has gotten so sissified and sterilized that posters who say what they think call the authorities to come beat them down. As a longtime lurker, I've noticed over the past few years that people who make straightforward, if perhaps a bit blunt, opinions-- despite contributing extensively to the level of discourse here-- usually end up getting banned because some easily offended posters can't handle criticisms being leveled on their favorite crap-rock bands, and then complain to management that there's a "troll." But, of course, this is only when the stated opinions are unpopular; you can criticize Dave Matthews as much as you want, apparently, and with impunity.

At the end of the day, these are just opinions about music, after all. This isn't life or death.

that's because Dave Matthews suckatility has been scientifically proven

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anotehr in a series of a+ threads

This board has gotten so sissified and sterilized that posters who say what they think call the authorities to come beat them down.

I don't think you actually meant to say this...?

Yeah, the "down" seems wrong somehow

who can I call to come beat them off?

Steely Dan is like the audio equivalent of some mullet haired 70's cokehead who wears giant brown sunglasses indoors, and tries to clumsily seduce blonde bimbos in his hot tub while bragging about his interest in 'photography.'

I don't think Fagen or Becker would disagree with you actually - and you have basically just summarized "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" (except you left out the underaged bit). a lot of people don't seem to grasp that Steely Dan were satirists (see Fagen's comparing them to the Fugs, or discussing the idea behind the sound/arrangement of "Hey Nineteen", etc.)

Typo. I meant that when posters speak their minds, other posters have them beat down by the management. Uh, definitely not beat off.

omg

aw respaws

has everybody seen the Aja Classic Albums thing 'cause the drummer discussing the "Peg" beat, and the bassist discussing how he had to hide his hands so they wouldn't know he was actually slapping, is fucking classic

as is this band

but, yeah, Shakey otm. They were dudes from nyc who ended up finding themselves contemptuous of seventies' l.a. culture. In short, res, you are really taking a lazy read of them...or maybe trolling like a demon

yeah, that vid is classssssique

i just like hearing donald fagen rap...and then later castigating his vocals for sounding like jerry lewis or whatever on the record

uptown baby

Steely Dan is like the audio equivalent of some mullet haired 70's cokehead who wears giant brown sunglasses indoors, and tries to clumsily seduce blonde bimbos in his hot tub while bragging about his interest in 'photography.'

no offense dude, but you're going to have to do better than that.

i.e. Shakey otm

waht is radiohead fan equivalent of mullet haired 70s cokehead in 20 years?

DNFTT

like deja vu
dan gotta nother hit that'll daze y'all crew

mullet haired 2020s cokehead

DNFTT

sad.

I know I mentioned this in my previous post and I can't find the interview right now but Fagen's talking about how the uber-tight harmonies on "Hey Nineteen" were deliberately written and recorded to feel plastic and soulless in order to echo the narrator's pathetic desperation at scoring jailbait is really really pertinent here - you've got a very masterful songwriter using all the tools at his disposal to tie the lyrical and musical subject matter together in a clever and evocative way, one that allows for a surface reaction ("Hey this is kinda catchy! But it sounds so slick and empty") that can in turn lead to a deeper reading/appreciation of the song. I don't see how, as a music fan, you can knock that kind of skill. Its genius is what it is.

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I don't see how, as a music fan, you can knock that kind of skill. Its genius is what it is.

yeah, maybe i can admire it-- but it doesn't really change the fact that it sounds slick and empty, does it?

i throw my hands up in exhaustion at this point

do you just fucking HATE MUSIC?? it's ok if you do, but, c'mon

also, that song kills even if you are not privy to what Shakey referenced here. but that's obv. just one man's opionion

opinion, even

yeah, maybe i can admire it-- but it doesn't really change the fact that it sounds slick and empty, does it?

I dunno, do you complain that music about anger is loud and abrasive? or that music about sex is rhythmic? or that music about romance is lush and sweet?

i had to take a break from steely dan; like i couldn't listen to them for a couple years...but now "rose darling" is killing me. i apologize for the micro-livebloggery, but i'm trying to put the "L" back into ILM

I dunno, do you complain that music about anger is loud and abrasive? or that music about sex is rhythmic? or that music about romance is lush and sweet?

Yes, if it's Korn. Yes, if it's 2 Live Crew. Yes, if it's Peabo Bryson.

Anyway, liking the sentiment does not automatically make the music good. I don't want to listen to slick, overproduced 70's jazz-rock no matter how clever it is. I simply don't like that kind of music.

this has taken a turn for the hongro

I don't want to listen to slick, overproduced 70's jazz-rock

-- res, Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

why u posting in the steely dan thread then dummy

2 Live Crew had two great singles!

I don't want to listen to slick, overproduced 70's jazz-rock no matter how clever it is. I simply don't like that kind of music.

Have you tried to listen to it? Why is "slick" bad? Are you suggesting that "raw" is good? And what is "overproduced" anyway?

2 Live Crew had two great singles! albums!

2 Live Crew were fucking awesome

why u posting in the steely dan thread then dummy

I guess we should change all the C/D threads on ILM to just C then

anyplace where 2 live crew and steely dan are consolidated feels like home

Have you tried to listen to it? Why is "slick" bad? Are you suggesting that "raw" is good? And what is "overproduced" anyway?

yeah overproduced would imply that the artist has fucked with the production to the extent that it has undermined the material - which is pretty much the exact opposite of what the Dan does. In almost every instance, their production perfectly compliments the material and is VERY thoughtfully and carefully applied.

overproduced is obviously a subjective term; to suggest it is anything else is ridiculous.

I guess we should change all the C/D threads on ILM to just C then

you should search the archives for the "can we find an artist that everyone on ILM likes?" threads. (hint: we couldn't)

I'm surprised there aren't more Dan haters to be honest.

When I first started getting into music, Steely Dan was a really really bad phrase. I first heard the name as a butt of a joke by some comedian on TV in the 80s.

It was until the 90s CD reissues that I heard the appeal, saw the light, etc. but as a Steely Dan lover, I'm not surprised by people who think they feel empty.

That said, I think anyone who doesn't like the music should go to the Dan's website and read their essays. You don't have to like the music to like Fagen/Becker's humor/sarcasm/whatever.

honestly too, i always feel like ppl exagerate how much of a "jazz rock" band steely dan was just cuz of some of the session dudes they used

res, do you like Soft Machine per chance?

Honestly, their most fervent supporters promote SD's lyrics rather too strenuously. I mean, their early stuff just rocked! And Fagen has almost everything I need from a singer of rock: wry, pinched, capable of unexpected grace notes.

i come from the opposite pov -- i was not a rock fan first, so it was the jazz oriented chords/harmonics that made them one of the first acts i fell in love with (70s stevie wonder & earth, wind & fire being the 2 major others).

I feel like to find the more direct "rock" element, you have to go back to 1972 with them.

xx-post

Alfred otm

but i'm a total sucker for their jazzy harmonic shit. chord changes sublime abound within their catalog

Alfred OTM^2. My favorite album is Can't Buy A Thrill for that reason.(Aja second for other reasons.)

Also, Can't Buy A Thrill was my gateway to liking Steely Dan, so maybe this is a good album for haters(?)

Honestly, their most fervent supporters promote SD's lyrics rather too strenuously. I mean, their early stuff just rocked! And Fagen has almost everything I need from a singer of rock

yeah my favorites are actually all the pre-Aja albums, tbh. I dunno about yr first sentence here tho - I am reminded of a conversation I was having with some studio engineers about Steely Dan, and they were all effusive about how great the records sounded and how tight and complex everything was, but when I mentioned how I loved how all that stuff contrasted with the lyrics I got blank stares, dudes didn't know "Dr. Wu" was about a junkie or that "Movies" was about a pedo. I lol'd.

those guys were musicians/studio engineers tho so maybe that's a bad example. Writers/critics are obviously gonna pay a bit more attention to language.

Also, Can't Buy A Thrill was my gateway to liking Steely Dan, so maybe this is a good album for haters(?)

it made me a convert too

Well, I've said on the Gaucho thread that it's my favorite album after Countdown to Ecstasy -- on a purely musical level too.

res, do you like Soft Machine per chance

don't think i've heard them. why?

well, i will try this thrill album just to expand my efforts... i tried aja and pretzel logic but several successive showers failed to make me feel clean afterwards, so i didn't think that there were others that might change my tune. we'll soon see.

I think the one thing I would hold against the Dan is that pretty much all their sleeve designs/album covers suck, with the exception of Katy Lied.

aja is a beautiful cover!!!

^^^ this

^^^^this

its... stylish, I'll give Phil Hartman that. I don't particularly like it tho. A bunch of their covers (Gaucho, Can't Buy a Thrill, the Royal Scam, Pretzel Logic) are downright stupid and/or ugly

phil hartman: stylish indeed

http://www.tributes.com/obits/tributes/phil_hartman/2680-1-photo.jpg

:(

Royal Scam & CBAT, no doubt. I'm not that fond of Countdown, either. But the rest are A-ok with me.

xx-post

Can't Buy A Thrill's cover is really gawdy but the rest are just fine.

the Pretzel Logic cover has a pretzel vendor on it. Get it? GET IT? For a couple guys with an otherwise sharp and unique sense of humor that joke is kinda uhhhh

i think the sarcasm thing is overplayed, and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time. aja's a beautiful record. the lyrics are compressed, bittersweet short stories. they're never glib. they kind of remind me of raymond carver stories, actually. steely dan: more populist than punk?

uhhhh the pretzel logic cover's great

the only one i don't like is 'countdown to ecstasy.' that font.

and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive - beauty and skin depth and all that yaknow...

okay- how do you guys feel about "Reelin' in the Years"?

Dueling guitars!

i think the sarcasm thing is overplayed, and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time.

yes. that.

solos are a little much on that one. harmonies on the chorus are killer. lyrics and lead vocal delivery are great. but not the best song on the album.

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"Reelin'" isn't a favorite either. "Do It Again" (which I thought for years was a really sexy Santana song my parents never told me about), sultry and mysterio-so, is lots better.

only a fool would say that

is my favorite song.

I think my favorite Sopranos moment of the whole series is Tony driving away from his house, being followed by the FBI, on his way to do some bad shit, singing along to "Dirty Work" (which is my favorite song on Thrill - either that or Only a Fool Would Say That)

"Do It Again" (which I thought for years was a really sexy Santana song my parents never told me about), sultry and mysterio-so, is lots better.

weird! I totally thought that was a Santana song, like forever! haha

I really like "Reelin'"... also "Dirty Work", "Kings", "Fire In The Hole"

haha yeah...I didn't hear that song among my dad's Dan records growing up (he had mostly the later albums and Gold, which it isn't on for some reason), so there were about 10 years were I thought it was by Santana, and then another 10 years after that where I still thought it was Santana every time I heard it until the vocals came in.

also lol @ the idea of Alfred's parents saying "son, there's this one Santana song that really gets us in the mood that we'd like to tell you about"

I grew up with Santana! "Do It Again" was a hit around the time that Santana was HUGE, and its rhythms are similar.

oh yeah, like i said, i totally made the same mistake myself many times.

i feel strangely comfortable to feel that I'm not the only one who labored under that misapprehension

lol, and my dad also totally loved that song, like in the sense of he would crank up the car stereo's volume when it came on. my dad sorted me with some good music, all things considered...wow

add me to the list who thought it was santana as a child

i've been listening to Thrill and some stuff I'm pleasantly surprised with ("Change of the Guard"), but a lot of it are these 'anonymous' bad 70's songs that I'd hear on classic rock radio for years ("Dirty Work", "Do It Again", "Reeling"), and wonder who these awful artists were. Now I know, they're all probably Steely Dan.

Will continue listening.

Dude, you like Belle and Sebastian.

I think our collective confusion arises from the fact that Juelz Santana has a song called "Do It Again."

Dude, you like Belle and Sebastian.

I never said that, but thanks for that crude pseudo-insult. Regardless, I do find much more to like about Belle and Sebastian than I do about Steely Dan. Belle and Sebastian are probably one of the few bands from this era that people will still be talking about a couple decades from now.

hey I like B&S too!

altho who gives a shit what people will be listening to decades from now, that's a meaningless barometer of quality

it's sad that it has to come down to lame ad hominem attacks when someone says they don't really care for Steely Dan. I didn't attack anyone personally here.

altho who gives a shit what people will be listening to decades from now, that's a meaningless barometer of quality

I see what you're getting at, but I think I would disagree that it's meaningless. I wouldn't necessarily search out stuff simply by trying to figure out whether it would be remembered years from now, but I would argue that the best music has a timeless quality.

Argh, too hard to describe this without writing a treatise, and i don't have the time for that now.

nothing is timeless

I like Belle and Sebastian. You haven't said anything in this thread about Steely Dan that hasn't been applied to B&S a billion times, except maybe the smooth jazz line. I was just surprised and amused cos I thought you must be angry metal guy or something. Seriously, it's fine not to like a band. It helps if you're criticisms aren't ill-informed groundless bollocks tho.

my love is timeless

And if you think "I would argue that the best music has a timeless quality" is a sensible argument, well, here you are on a thread of people loving 30-odd year old albums. Would you like me to hand you your petard or can you hoist yourself?

I know there was a time in my life when I hated the sound of Steely Dan. I have a vague memory of once listening to Katy Lied because I thought the insect picture on the cover looked cool and turning it off almost immediately. It just sounded "old" in lots of ways - that slick '70s sound seemed very dated. The music was kind of a beige blur - too slow, too mellow, too smooth - not very exciting. It was pretty much the opposite of what I was looking for in music at that time: speed, energy, volume, rough-edges, noise, passion. I wanted music that was defiantly and joyously ugly, not music that tried so hard to sound tasteful. There was something almost embarrassing about how studiously well-behaved it was - like someone who always kisses the teacher's ass in school. It was just too grown-up sounding, I guess.

^^^^yeah, me too.

I snapped out of it.

how many fuckin "Steely Dan offends my indie sensibilities"/"Steely Dan used to offend me indie sensibilities"/"Steely Dan roolz u r all corny indie fux" exchanges are we going to have on this board?

To me it's understandable to only want to listen to music that's in some way aggro when you're 16, but people who do that usually end finding all sorts of justifications for stuff that most people would think was pleasant or mellow or pop.

I snapped out of it.

Yeah, it took me a while. Much later I tried again. Listened to "My Old School" - hey, I thought, this isn't bad. Then all of Countdown to Ecstasy. Some good tunes on here. Then Can't Buy a Thrill. Still had a bit of trouble with Katy - but after a while started to hear the songs behind that slick '70s sound. And so on.

Belle and Sebastian are probably one of the few bands from this era that people will still be talking about a couple decades from now.

Different strokes different folks I guess, but B&S are still around, and I was a fan in the late 90s, and I stopped caring and talking about them in 2000.

Although the idea of Steely Dan using the B&S aesthetic for their album covers is LOL -- maybe.

I snapped out of it.

^^^ same here, thanks to the help of a hand-me-down copy of Aja and um, pot.

Although the idea of Steely Dan using the B&S aesthetic for their album covers is LOL -- maybe.

I think you mean the SMITHS aesthetic

(sssssh)

(and yeah I stopped caring about B&S around 2000 too - altho I still break out If You're Feeling Sinister now and again, that's a solid record)

(also I think the B&S aesthetic is a bit duller than the Smiths aesthetic when it comes down to the details of the photograph selection)

why u posting in the steely dan thread then dummy

Something wrong with a little dissenting opinion?

(also I think the B&S aesthetic is a bit duller than the Smiths aesthetic when it comes down to the details of the photograph selection)

very true - pomo celebrity selection vs. dumb pictures of friends/bandmembers

And if you think "I would argue that the best music has a timeless quality" is a sensible argument, well, here you are on a thread of people loving 30-odd year old albums. Would you like me to hand you your petard or can you hoist yourself?

fair enough. regardless, i doubt that there's anyone here who has studiously deconstructed the rationale for their apparent tastes, and have come up with anything that some anonymous dude on a message board couldn't punch a hole right through

guys I think that was a challenge

It's the "rationale" that's a mistake. That and thinking that there are objective aesthetic qualities that reside in art above or beyond context.

i.e. fat middle-aged perma-angsty dude on the east coast of England listening to Dan in 2008 on a Friday afternoon after work is not hearing the same Dan as an imaginary 16 year-old Californian listening to the radio in 1974.

^^^bringin it

ultimately we must understand that as humans we are composites of our inscrutable quirks, irrational beliefs, and non-logically formed opinions. therefore, it's somewhat pointless to argue in this "gotcha"-style fashion that relies on the deconstruction of words that were articulated to rationalize an opinion that didn't come from a place of logic in the first place.

IF IT IS POINTLESS TO SO ARGUE THEN STFU

also please don't use "deconstruction" to mean "close examination"

I used to really like Steely Dan. Now I like them more

res I'm not trying to trip you up or mess with you now, honest. A bit upthread, yeah, but disagreeing with somebody's opinion ought to be fruitful cos it makes us see the flaws in our own. I'm not quite saying "there's no disputing about taste", either. I think there are loads of ways you can interestingly think about and disagree about music. I don't think arguing about the music's status as being "above" subjectivity is one of those ways, really. What makes people like Steely Dan, as an example cos this is the thread we're on, might be a bunch of different qualities. Different for different people. Saying those qualities aren't there or are rubbish feels self-defeating because the refutation happens as soon as one person steps up and says "no, I like that".

Anyway, pub time, no aggro intended. Peace.

They got the house on the corner
With the rug inside
They got the booze they need
All that money can buy
They got the shapely bods
They got the Steely Dan T-shirt
And for the coup-de-gras
They're outrageous

Show biz kids making movies
Of themselves you know they
Don't give a fuck about anybody else

I don't think arguing about music has to be pointless, although it certainly can be. Sometimes someone else's argument will allow you to hear something in a new way. Reading about how someone else appreciates something might open up a new avenue for you to appreciate it. I think that's what some people upthread were doing by trying to call attention to the deliberateness of the slick Steely Dan sound and how they might have been deliberately going for a soulless plasticity in order to complement a song about alienation. Personally I don't buy that argument. I think Steely Dan worked so hard to get that sound because they think it sounds good, and I don't think it was in any way an ironic pose. But for some people, maybe they appreciate it more if they hear it that way.

I think its a bit of both and that the push and pull between the two is one of the things that makes them really interesting - arrrgh I really wish I could find that Fagen interview, it was relatively recent (he also explains the inspiration for My Old School and who Rikki Don't Lose That Number is about)

Fagen is a master ironist in interviews - so it's hard to take completely seriously anything he says in them about what they were trying to accomplish or what a song was about. It would be interesting to read the interview though.

Most of my appreciation for Steely Dan comes from my dad blasting Aja, Gaucho and Can't Buy A Thrill when I was a child. I just loved the way the music flowed, particularly on Aja and Gaucho (the song "Gaucho" is probably on my list of most underappreciated songs ever and I have a visceral dance reaction to "Peg" whenever I think about it).

"Gaucho" (the song) is the best example I know of how a man with limited vocal chops can deliver a masterful performance.

I must say I'm a big fan of Fagen's singing. It's very distinctive and raw. The rawness of it is a great counterbalance to the smoothness of the instrumental sound.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ total agreement

I think its a bit of both and that the push and pull between the two is one of the things that makes them really interesting - arrrgh I really wish I could find that Fagen interview, it was relatively recent (he also explains the inspiration for My Old School and who Rikki Don't Lose That Number is about)

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, June 27, 2008 1:35 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I think you mean this one, I just stumbled upon it the other day and it's pretty interesting and Fagen doesn't come off particularly ironic or elusive: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1174152,00.html

ah yeah I found that one too - but I don't think his comments about Hey Nineteen are in that, they must be somewhere else, I have distinct memory of reading about his approach to the arrangement and production of that particular song.

http://pitchfork.com/news/62738-steely-dans-donald-fagen-arrested-for-allegedly-assaulting-wife/

assaulting your wife - dud!

damn.

This whole "I told you so" crap brought about by dudes who love The Beatles is really...

You never hear of indie rockers beating women! Seriously shit the fuck up.

I'm just saying Lennon and the guy from Surfer Blood become shorthands for scum, avatars for everything wrong with men in rock, while Lindsey Buckingham and SD are praised without question. It's funny.

Sorry I don't have precognition you worthless pussstain

Please link me previous episodes fagen or Becker hitting women

It's funny.

"I knew it all along"

Fuck you

You misunderstand me. I never said "I told you so" re: the moral turpitude of Steely Dan. I love Steely Dan. I just think it's funny how so many people will recoil at the mention of Lennon, or the guy from Surfer Blood, or even Isaac Brock, while evangelizing for Tusk and Gaucho. It's funny to me. I don't care if Fagen beat his wife. It doesn't change my opinion of his work at all.

Now those same people will have a harder time talking about SD w/o offending someone. I enjoy it.

domestic violence and abuse is depressingly common across literally all walks of life but flappy bird is stuck so far up his own asshole, which likely resembles billy corgan's visage in miniature as it's being tongued, that the first astoundingly stupid point he makes when he hears about it, in multiple threads, is that this incident justifies his dislike for a band's music and his incredibly tedious posturing wrt his taste in popular music.

I just said I love Steely Dan. I'm a huge fan.

"I just think it's funny"

"I just think it's funny"

_"I just think it's funny"_

__"I just think it's funny"__

___"I just think it's funny"___

____"I just think it's funny"____

_____"I just think it's funny"_____

______"I just think it's funny"______

_______"I just think it's funny"_______

________"I just think it's funny"________

_________"I just think it's funny"_________

Domestic abuse is not funny. The politics of who's hip and who's not, who's a moral arbiter and who's scum, the self righteousness and the hypocrisy in it - that's very funny to me. Please contribute to the Howard Stern Thread more often.

But Steely Dan are not a moral arbiter and never were... I feel you, slappy bird, I'm just rooting for you to throw down with some profound stuf!

Who's OK to like, who makes you cool, who's crimes go unmentioned...Lindsey Buckingham dragged his girlfriend by her hair down his gravel driveway, one hand on her head and another on the steering wheel of his Mercedes. Who cares? I love Tusk. I love Gaucho. I think the politics of who's hip and who's scum, it's all very funny. That's all. I should clarify once again though that assaulting your wife is 100% dud.

Once again : talk about Donald fagen or steely Dan. Otherwise fuck the fuck off

Try caring about domestic abuse instead of using it as some kind of bingo thing

none of this is funny

Check out the North Korea thread. Always hilarious!

Lindsey Buckingham did that?

If he did I'm sad to hear it, and it will mean something for my appreciation of his work.

from Storms by Carol Ann Harris, LB's girlfriend from 76-84

http://s13.postimg.org/clyysocj9/lindsey1.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/579n0aqnp/lindsey2.jpg

Wrong thread and most of us are familiar with the alleged stories.

It's easy to hate fleetwood mac simply because they suck and their music is awful. No consideration of non-musical behavior necessary.

^^^^^

Go to your room, Shakey. Stevie Nicks will be dragging you and Phil by the hair presently.

shakey and the top man vs. practically everybody who's ever played music. WHO COULD POSSIBLY BE RIGHT

imo the "oh, they abused someone? well their music was shit anyway" attitude is really insulting and obnoxious posturing garbage

like there are real people involved in this, not just your taste

Lol @ "practically everybody"

Def nothing funny about it, an ugly moment. Hopefully that's all it is. He apparently grabbed and pushed her during an argument. AFAIK he doesn't have a prior history of violence against her or other women? Doing something shitty in an angry moment doesn't per se make someone a monster .

Doing something shitty in an angry moment doesn't per se make someone a monster

It does in the age of Twitter Court.

writing "You Can Go Your Own Way" is pretty monstrous fwiw

Def nothing funny about it, an ugly moment. Hopefully that's all it is. He apparently grabbed and pushed her during an argument. AFAIK he doesn't have a prior history of violence against her or other women? Doing something shitty in an angry moment doesn't per se make someone a monster .

― on enter O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Sunday, January 10, 2016 9:58 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you should read her book. he was a monster to her for their entire relationship.

Donald Fagen's wife wrote a book?

I think that one was re Lindsey Buckingham

man alive clearly referring to the recent Fagen incident tho

ah, my bad

i do remember a bit in fagen's (awful, awful) memoir from a few years ago about his wife fedex-ing him Ativan in the middle of a tour.

Let's play a song game mixed up with the latest news. I'll start...

The Royal Scam (my bitch wife's story about me strangling her with my scarf)
Pretzel Logic (my dumbass wife's way of thinking before i knock some sense into her)
Do It Again (beat her with my boot)

Anyone else?

mmmm yes, but the art

are these posts some sort of cry for help?

just trying to bring the lols.

keep trying

Ha, I'd never noticed this before... I wonder if this was intentional or just a crazy coincidence? They match up pretty much exactly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQTEwE_8Kng

Ehh, interesting, but I think it's just called "having a style."

Very cool!

That sounds good! If it were Nickelback, we would all be like "I TOLD you all their songs sound the same."

Definitely sounds like a cool self-referential thing. Way too similar in tempo, harmony, and melody to be an accident. The song "Aja" was written in 74/75 and demoed for Katy Lied, so it's not a stretch.

are there any katy lied demos out there with aja?

I have some, from who knows where.

yousendit?

I'll lookintoit when I get home.

I'm at work right now: Are these active?

hxxp://www.guitars101.com/forums/f145/steely-dan-katy-lied-outtakes-amp-demos-1973-a-211183.html

me too. I'll check later. thanks

They are very much active.

Thanks for the heads up.

i like don't know this band much outside of the hits but i started listening to the album "pretzel logic about 15 minutes ago, and am now 15 minutes in, and i like it a lot.

i think it might be really good.

welcome

it's kind of weird though

Sign In Stranger

self xp, but not in a bad way. i will post more when i have something to say that is halfway informed.

Hey Treeship
That's Donald Fagen
He don't remember the King of Snark

I feel like the only album of the initial run that isnt a good intro to the band is maybe Royal Scam. (Mine was Katy Lied)

treeship if you're looking for next dan step, consider aja

Try Can't Buy a Thrill next, save Gaucho for last.

(because it's the weakest of their original run)

Seeing as Gaucho was the first SD album I heard and it made fall in love with the band immediately, I don't think you need to worry about listening to it too much

treeship will love gaucho or I will eat my spats

Treeship, I wish I could hear these records for the first time again. Hope you dig them!!!

Pretzel Logic is a really good one to start with, right in the middle of their career & a nice dividing line between the earlier rock-oriented records and later studio muso records.

imo Aja would be the one to check out next. and then Gaucho if you dig the smooth sound... Gaucho is antiseptic, in the best way!

I started w/Pretzel Logic, bc according to what i was reading around the time (conventional wisdom + the RS 1992 album guide) it was their best album.

moved onto Countdown to Ecstasy from there and i think the Royal Scam was next.

the albums i came to a bit later were Can't Buy a Thrill and Katy Lied, for whatever reason. CBAT still seems like the least Dan of the Dan LPs, i mean it's a genuinely classic one, a ridiculously played and confident '70s rock album, but it's not fully instilled with the Fagen/Becker essence. Katy Lied, for some reason that one took a bit to grow on me.

i would go Countdown to Ecstasy next. Brilliant jams, some incredible singles, kind of the perfect combo of all the SD elements in one package.

Countdown to Ecstasy and Gaucho are my favorites and they represent the opposite SD streams fully realized.

Pretzel Logic is an amazing entry point into The Dan because of the strangeness and stylistic diversity. In terms of next steps, here's a handy guide

If you liked the title track, Parker's Band or Barrytown the most, listen to Countdown to Ecstasy
If you liked Rikki the most, listen to Aja
If you liked the creepy character studies (Monkey, Buzz, Charlie Freak) best, move onto Katy Lied
If you loved "Night By Night," check out The Royal Scam
if you preferred "Any Major Dude" or "With a Gun," check out Can't Buy a Thrill

And if you liked East St. Louis Toodle-Oo the most...congrats, you're a weirdo. Check out Gaucho

I started with Katy Lied because duh minutemen

Xp Eastside Toodle-oo maybe secretly my favourite Steely Dan track but don't tell

so favorite you can't even remember what it's called?

I mean no offense to East St. Louis Toodle-lovers, but picking the band's only ever instrumental and only ever cover as your favorite track is an unorthodox choice

Gaucho is probably my favorite these days.

Countdown to Ecstasy and Gaucho are my favorites and they represent the opposite SD streams fully realized.

― gospodin simmel, Tuesday, September 19, 2017 2:33 PM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

SO correct

listen to any album in any order it's all good

otm

people OTM - Pretzel is really the best entry point

Countdown to Ecstasy and Gaucho are my favorites and they represent the opposite SD streams fully realized.

― gospodin simmel, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 18:33 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Can't Buy a Thrill is easily as good an entry point as Pretzel Logic is, IMO.

CBAT is a great album, but a total outlier. It's a good introduction but it's not really a roadmap

yeah like "Brooklyn Holds the Charmer" is a wonderful song but kind of a fake-out for other 'sentimental' SD songs

Y'see, aside from the presence of David Palmer I don't really get that way of thinking at all. It sounds as much a Steely Dan record as any other Steely Dan record - I don't think it could be mistaken for anything else!

tom

er, otm

I mean yeah it's basically Palmer. thinking of other overtly musically sentimental SD songs that are similar... Any World, Dirty Work, Deacon Blues obv...

Palmer only sings lead on two songs, and you can hear why - as Christgau noted, he "fit in like a cheerleader at a crap game." Even on those tracks - and the one Jim Hodder sings - you can hear the way Donald would have sung them. And I wouldn't call Dirty Work or Brooklyn "sentimental."

Oh I guess you qualified that as "musically sentimental," though I'm not really sure what that means.

there's a nostalgic quality to the choruses of those songs especially

Katy Lied is the best imo

Brooklyn Owes the Charmer is p sentimental - it's about how sweet his cranky old school NY neighbors are!

re: Hodder singing lead - wtf I never even knew this "Dallas" single existed

Palmer only sings lead on two songs, and you can hear why

Yeah. I mean could you imagine him on 'Showbiz Kids' or 'Everyone's Gone to the Movies'!?

I should probably reread the lyrics before arguing these points in the future. SD's lyrics are so much fun to read, too.

xxp

I've spun Dallas a few times, catchy tune

Like a Sunday in T.J.
That it's cheap but it's not free
That I'm not what I used to be
And that love's not a game for three

xpost

Palmer singing lead adds to the creepiness!

with Fagen there's never any question that he's in on the joke

That "It's cheap but it's not free" is just such a fucking brilliant line.

Collective ILX lost weekends in Tijuana bear this out as undeniable truth.

That bit on the Aja documentary during the 'Black Cow' segment where Fagen suddenly starts rapping "uptown baby, uptown baby" cracks me up every time.

Also that yes, it's absolutely great.

he seems to do that regularly, he did it in that clip of them driving around Vegas in a cab too

Babylon Sisters strikes me as sentimental and cynical but I attribute that more to the protagonist than SD.

"If john go and writes another book, why must I trudge through it? Let George do it."

With words that just won't quit!

DUD!

"Easy" by Jesse Green, from the expanded edition of Nice and Slow sounds a lot like the Dan, but i like it much better than anything Fagen and Becker put out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjp3cpC_woQ

Seeing them in a few weeks. Looked at setlists, saw they’re doing some Walter solo songs. Excited for the show, but I know it’s going to be sad. Saw them at the same venue 3 years ago.

Damn... I had tickets so see him at a jazz festival a few weeks ago and he cancelled it citing fatigue. Granted it was halfway across the world but still. Is this current "Steely Dan" band the same as "The Nightfliers"?

running the world's best unofficial steely dan lyrics twitter account
@steelydanlyrics

i get some real interesting ats and replies

wkiw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FpOETPa458&app=desktop

Guitar nerds should know that the estate of Steely Dan’s Walter Becker is auctioning off his entire collection of instruments. Here’s a teaser from the preview. pic.twitter.com/izpkqfbZBW

— Randall FAIR CONTRACT NOW Roberts 🦅 (@LilEdit) October 14, 2019

I interviewed Becker and Fagen about 20 years ago. Becker was one of the nicest musicians I've ever encountered, contrary to his slightly sour reputation, and even told the record company woman to go away for a while when she came in to say my allotted time was up. (Fagen was polite but slightly phoning it in, and left well before Becker did.)

Lol at the guy at the top of this thread 16 years ago claiming the Dan were one of the whitest bands ever. Their music is JAZZ-rock, ffs!