do you still like/get excited by bootlegs/mash-ups?

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makes a better question for people to click on but what i also want to ask is which songs do you find the originals of to be completely dull compared to the numerous mash-ups that nicekd the acapella (or indeed music)?

D12's 'Purple Pills' is an instant choice for me - the original seems so redundant compared to the mash-ups that slotted the acapella against Depeche Mode's 'I Just Can't Get Enough' or Orbital's 'Impact USA' or Human League's 'Don't You Want Me'

also applies to most Destiny's Child tracks, esp. 'Say My Name' and 'Independent Woman' - tho i do still prefer the original 'Bootylicious'

i'll still listen to and like 'Hard To Explain' tho, it just about survived the 'Stroke Of Genieus' 'threat' in this respect.

and yes, mash-ups in general. been enjoying any new ones recently? any thoughts on whatever legacy has been left of it? over to you...

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 March 2003 20:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm probably the wrong person to ask/post, but I've got 45 seconds to kill..

It took me about 2 hours to be over the bootleg excitement.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't even know if this is what it is but on Miami radio a couple weeks ago I heard a mixed up Missy Elliot "Gossip Folks" with "Supa Dupa Fly" and it sounded rad. I don't know if that's how the original Supa Dupa Fly was but it sounded all swishy and futuristic and then with the "Izzy, Kizzy," and Luda stuff . . . it was cool. It was not just samples, really about half and half of each song.

Pardon my ignorance. Is this a mashup? Thanks.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:01 (twenty-three years ago)

this is called a hiphop dj mix

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:04 (twenty-three years ago)

(which you can hear every day at drive time in most "urban" radio markets, at least on the east coast: 20 minutes of acapellas over "get ur freak on" or whatever...this is one of the main reasons i wasn't so "blown away" by the mashup concept at first in general.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I think there will be a core group of DJs and listeners who will go back and enjoy the mashups of present and yesteryear for a good number of years to come, just like any other specific genre of club music.. like summer-of-'89 acid house, or early 90s rave music, happy hardcore, what have you.

And apparently, mashups are now just starting to get popularity in L.A., from what I've been told. *puzzled*

On the flip, I desperately want to hear more permutations now, as opposed to new tracks that still go the "vocal over instrumental" layout.

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

(this ties into my "how every genre works after X number of years" argument...i don't know why so many people are lamenting the fact that bootlegs/mash-ups are no longer "new": i'd hazard a guess that 75% of what any of you listen to isn't "new.")

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:14 (twenty-three years ago)

jess, have you heard that actual one? It didn't seem 20 minutes long but I may not have heard the whole thing.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:17 (twenty-three years ago)

i have not heard that actual one, no; "20 minutes" was me pulling a timeframe out of my ass (although, to be fair, i really did here 20 minutes of "get ur freak on" on power 99 one time, one MC after the other: jay-z, big, lil kim, some dancehall guy, etc etc.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:20 (twenty-three years ago)

But that's what I mean . . . it was not the usual dragged-out extended mix of a single, it was two mixed together at normal cadence, equal parts Supa Dupa and Gossip. But if you are still sure I will take your word. It was good, I would like to hear this again.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I remember saying the same thing Jess said at the height of bootleg-mania and I don't think anyone paid any attention to me (I may have gotten a round of "but this is DIFFERENT!" to which I muttered under my breath "Because they're white?" and then moved on to the next dick joke).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:26 (twenty-three years ago)

i guess what i'm saying is that it's a pretty common technique (it must be as i've only heard it on the radio and have never been to a strictly hip-hop "club night")...i heard a mash-up once that was breaking up a hot boyz track with green velvet/cajmere's "percolator" (which, oddly enough, has become a quite common "interstitial" track during times when radio DJs are trying to keep interest high while they're jabbering about the latest contest or whatever.) what you heard could have been executed with a lot more "mash-up" finesse tho.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:26 (twenty-three years ago)

(heh, oddly enuff i think one of the few ways bootlegs WERE new is their range [read: whiteness]...you'd never hear a hip-hop DJ dropping the strokes over a mary j acapella or whatever.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:27 (twenty-three years ago)

(DRAT MY COLORBLINDNESS SHIELDING MY EYES FROM INNOVATION)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:29 (twenty-three years ago)

(which has as much to do with reasons of tempo and DJ flow as taste or race or anything else...that's the other reason bootlegs were "new" and interesting: they were packaging these mash-ups as DISCRETE UNITS, songs.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:30 (twenty-three years ago)

(pssst.. why are all talking behind parenthetic camouflage?)

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:34 (twenty-three years ago)

(the infidels will not find us)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 13 March 2003 21:42 (twenty-three years ago)

(you realize by hiding like this, the pigfuckers have already won)

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

"math up" mash ups meet math rock.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:14 (twenty-three years ago)

there have been vocals-from-one-song over instrumentals-from-another-song mixes on commercial urban radio for decades now, for as long as there have been 12" singles with instrumental / acapella / bonus beats. They'd be put together by rabid dj's at each local station, and sometimes pressed on white labels as 'megamixes', it was core hip hop culture that many americans have long been familiar with.

those mixes were all inter-genre, lisa lisa singing over prince beats doesn't make for the same kind of high-tension line provided by the new wave of mp3-distributed bootlegs, juxtaposing black artists singing over white rock and pop required a new leap of critical distance and brought a new audience. but I've always found it kind of funny reading the self-enthused british coverage of the mashup 'phenomenon' wondering when it'll 'cross over' to the states, because like jess points out the basic idea has been on american commercial drive time radio for _twenty years_, it's not as relevatory a paradigm shift over here.

― jleideck, Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:14 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't think its a paradigm shift in england either

it's a social phenomenon, not a musical one

― Ben Williams, Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah I mean that is kind of the thing - it's folks in their bedrooms doing this stuff, not drivetime dj's.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Intro Inspection.mp3 off this site - http://www.wax-abuse.com/ - is the only one thats got me interested for a while. It's 12 minutes of 101 famous intros mashed together.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought the whole bedroom producer as cultural pioneer thing was a big deal in like 1992. Or 1962 if you think along the lines of Joe Meek.

I have only heard one track that was actually decent, and that was Madchester Grammer with Nelly rapping over Step On by The Happy Mondays. Everything else I heard was garbage, complete novelty nonsense.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:49 (twenty-three years ago)

it's not just the bedroom thing. it's also

a) speed and ease of making the things via cheap computer software
b) distribution on the internet and file-sharing services

all just an acceleration of previous trends, basically. in 1962 you had to be a weird avant-inventor-genius to do this, and lucky if anyone heard you. in 2002 anyone can do it, and it can be circulated very quickly to lots of people

― Ben Williams, Thursday, 13 March 2003 22:59 (twenty-three years ago)

the essential concept behind mash-ups was a fundamental characteristic of hip hop and house which both emanated in the States as music to be mixed - hence the irony of people on both sides of the Atlantic musing on the crossover potential of the recent phenomenon. but yes the rap vs punk, pop, house, techno or dated tv theme method was somewhat novel and hadnt really been 'chased up' and explored fully until recently.

that was Madchester Grammer with Nelly rapping over Step On by The Happy Mondays. Everything else I heard was garbage, complete novelty nonsense.

i hate the way people are always saying 'oh the only decent one i heard was ' - it just makes no sense, its your personal preference of course but to me its like saying the only good rap song is 'Superthug' by Noreaga or something.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 March 2003 23:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Ben is OTM too, the only way people could get acapellas before file-sharing took off was on 12" vinyl and CD singles, so you would have had to have been a keen DJ and budding producer to want to spend a lot of money buying enough stuff to play with if you were going for acapella mash-ups

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 March 2003 23:45 (twenty-three years ago)

i once again have to be the first to credit John Oswald for pioneering thisconcepr years ago.

That said, I quite like the mash-ups. Some are better than the sum of their parts, and others are at least good for some amusement.

WAY better trend than this 'garage rock' shit or whatever.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 13 March 2003 23:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree that simply talking musical aesthetics misses the main point of the 2002 surge. it's now a new mass practice and listening network.

also key is the transition from longform sprawling 'dj mixes' to simple song-sized mp3's, i.e. bootlegs are structurally identical to pop, distributed in the same format, i.e. the line's been completely erased. yep. I mean, hence the success.

the british coverage seldom mentions oswald or negativland, or even deride it as 'art' stuff... well they're right in that it isn't pop.

― jleideck, Friday, 14 March 2003 00:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the songs/discrete units thing is key here; obviously hip-hop and house/techno have used the same idea(s) for eons, but the fact that it seemed to be a unified "scene" is what made it write-about-able for the press (including me). also, I think the idea of cross-genre mixing has a lot of appeal as well (Strokes + Aguilera being the most obv example), though that's nothing new either. the sheer number of things being done seems to be a factor as well

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I dunno - V/Vm and Plunderphonics are pop to me!

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

to answer the question, yeah, I still love 'em. the good ones are still great records and I don't hear enough of those in any context/event.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

oswald didn't "pioneer" anything, though; except maybe copyright litigation

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

re: acapellas. I think that could be one of the keys to continuation of this stuff. a) Will labels continue to release acapellas of new tracks? I search for them online fairly frequently, and it seems like the pickings are getting slim. (Sideline question: do labels even give a shit about or feel threatened by these mixes? I've never seen mention of this in any articles I've read on it.) b) Will a technology emerge so that users can separate vocals from music of pre-existing tracks? Maybe it already does, though one I demo'd sometime back did a really terrible job of it.

― s woods, Friday, 14 March 2003 00:07 (twenty-three years ago)

for instance, the Last Poets and Gil Scott-Heron and James Brown were doing "rap" years before "Rapper's Delight," but it's when Sugarhill and Enjoy and Paul Winley Records started putting out "rap records" en masse that people picked up on it as a major thing. Like Ben said, it's the fact of accelerated production more than it is the thing being oh-so-shockingly new

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:10 (twenty-three years ago)

but Oswald and Negativland work on a higher tier that has always been beyond acapella/instrumental 'entry-level' stuff, as have Osymyso and Cassette Boy who you could say are the Uk equivalents, both of whom have been playing that game since the mid 90s at least. its probably smart to differentiate between the pop (Lisa's Got Hives, 2 Many DJs...) and the art (The Parker Tapes, Intro Inspection...) though, and perhaps i shouldve made that acknowledgement in my initial post rather than just focussing on the poppy mash-ups

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:11 (twenty-three years ago)

so came Grandmaster Flash's shrug that 'its nothing new' when he was told about the recent phenomenon on a morning TV show here in the UK

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:13 (twenty-three years ago)

it does seem like there's fewer a cappellas out there, probably because of things like "Without Me" having one and there being, like 50 mash-ups within a month. I think there's already separating-vocals technology out there; I've seen high-end club-DJ mixers that have amazingly precise delete-this-factor (high end or bass or whatever) buttons, so it's not hard to imagine something already exists for that purpose.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I interviewed Flash last summer and played him some records; the first one was "Smells Like Booty," and he basically said the same thing to me, saying that he'd played records like that for a few years and that the "Breathe and Don't Stop" (Q-Tip vs. Michael Jackson) 12-inch was in his crate

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:15 (twenty-three years ago)

anyway amen't i allowed to have loved the idea in hiphop/techno/whatever and then to have loved mashups as a follow through?

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:15 (twenty-three years ago)

jess - i disagree - in fact, i don't think you could understate his influence on the concept of the remix / demix / etc. There are a lot of things Oswald was doing in the 80s that sound like mash ups - in fact, that (admittedly good) Intro Introspection mash-up was Oswald's idea - using famous intros as the basis for a song.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Oswald came along after de-mixers like Buchanan & Goodman, and he came along after remixers like Walter Gibbons and Larry Levan. He definitely introduced the idea of turning well-known source material into barely-listenable art-bullshit, though, I'll grant you that.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Gaz, you and I are in exactly the same spot there. It feels like a continuation, not a rupture, and that's what's exciting about it.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:19 (twenty-three years ago)

"was oswald's idea"?

the effect of oswald/negtaivland is much more pronounced in the kid606 thing, i think...i mean there's a much more obviously line of cause and effect between something like "dab" and the kid's "straight outta compton" mix than there is between "o'hell" and "lisa's got hives". i rarely, if ever, get the feeling that the bootlegger's hold their material in some sort of contempt.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Ouch - stylistic differences, then. Agreed about Levan especially, but I still feel that Oswald is in a class by himself. I like the 'subversive audio terrorism' aspects of the plunderers, which i guess is what you'd consider "art-bullshit," but then, i'm a fan of Barbara Kruger too.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think Oswald holds the material in contempt at all! Not even with the Doors.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:23 (twenty-three years ago)

kid606 is a good example, (actually his whole label - the best being DJ /rupture by far)

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:23 (twenty-three years ago)

(nb: obv any regular reader of ilm will know i have no problem with contempt...it's just a trickier medium)

(also, i think oswald's on record as hating the doors. ditto the "ambient noise" of pop music. oswald's project was once described by david toop as "starting up where he felt the music too obviously left off", which is all well and good but a very hit and run kind of work.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:25 (twenty-three years ago)

and i think, if anything, Oswald is MORE enthusiastic about his 'targets' than the average Freelance Hellraiser or whatever.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I think /rupture's a genius, but in some ways he really is the sore thumb of the Tigerbeat roster; you could say that he straddles the line between the Oswaldians and the Frenchblokians, but he's really not like either one. he's much more of a DJ in the traditional sense, except he's got ideas to match the skillz (and the skillz are plentiful)

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:26 (twenty-three years ago)

really, Roger? that just seems odd--it's like saying I like a book more by sending it through a paper shredder than I do by reading it

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:27 (twenty-three years ago)

turning well-known source material into barely-listenable art-bullshit, though
i had such high hopes for oswald...and then i listened to him. the one where he cuts up the talking books is funny though, if hardly 'subversive audio terrorism'
might have to give him another chance.

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I was exaggerating to make a point--I like Oswald in small doses--but it's certainly not pleasure music

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:30 (twenty-three years ago)

i still really do think that "straight outta compton" mix renders all future attempts at similiar irrelevant

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Freelance Hellraiser is very much in the Fatboy Slim vein i'd say, utilising bootlegs because they're fun in principal, also he loves pop as much as techno and hip-hop and 70s funk and punk rock so its a logical step to integrate them all into a mix to try and push this 'its all good, especially if all mixed together' thing - FH is particularly dancefloor-orientated as are Conway, 2 Many DJs etc. unlike the American artists mentioned - but of course there is the equivalent in the States with the likes of Z-Trip

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I love 'em. But remember I'm always curious what Weird Al's new single is gonna be (not that I've liked any in ages).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:32 (twenty-three years ago)

right on steve: it's pretty clear that the stage was set for "bootlegs" to some extent by big beat

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Weird Al singles, not mash-ups. Mash-ups, as long as it flows, always good.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:33 (twenty-three years ago)

i still really do think that "straight outta compton" mix renders all future attempts at similiar irrelevant

i seem to prefer the Flashbulb cut-up of 'mama said knock you out' tho - i think he pushes it that little bit further even if that just means more effects

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Not really - not if you genuinely believe (as I do) that Oswald's contributions to the original song improve the things that are great and unique about it (Dolly Parton's voice, for instance) and the he himself believes this too (it's obvious that he does)

and of /rupture - I think the reasons you give are exactly what sets him apart on an otherwise occasional-hit-but-mostly-miss label. He IS a sore thumb, but his choice of material (and creative use of three turntables) is really remarkable. He possesses an intuitiveness that's entirely absent on other Tigerbeat records. Context, i think, is everything here. In the same way that a Beatminerz mix CD on Tigerbeat may be taken as 'subversive' and would get a rave review in The Wire.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I think /rupture is less intuitive than methodical, though. There's nothing accidental about what he chooses to use in his mixes, nor what he puts in his tracks. (Check the way he tosses Lou Reed singing "Hey white boy" from "I'm Waiting for the Man" in the middle of "Descarrida," which is on the (sic): The Broklyn Beats 7" Series CD.)

Don't take this the wrong way, but only someone with extremely limited knowledge of Dolly Parton's music would think that Oswald had somehow "improved" on her voice.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:40 (twenty-three years ago)

"Mama Said" vote seconded, though I love the "Compton" mix too

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:40 (twenty-three years ago)

i never followed the recent wave of bootlegs, but i have to ask a question ... what did you all of you who seem to be caught up and revisionist on this phenomena think of the bootleg/mash-ups done by the dust bros. on beck's "where it's at" single from 96/97?

was that the commercial (ie highest charting) peak of a release with bootleg/mashups in the USA?

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:40 (twenty-three years ago)

if that's where you wanna go, the obvious no. 1 all-time charter here is "I'll Be Missing You" by Puff Daddy and the Family

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:44 (twenty-three years ago)

i take no offense at not being familiar enough with Dolly Parton. But i thought the examination of her voice in that context was beautiful. I love that song.

i didn't get that Brooklyn Beats comp - it was $6 - is I-Sound on it? Maybe I'll pick it up.

and to accuse /rupture of being methodical, while it may be true, hardly paints an accurate portrait of what he does - at a certain point, content beats form.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:45 (twenty-three years ago)

to follow up another part of the original question, what're the good new ones? from, say, after boomselection went down.

as for "most successful": what about that one circa 68 which mashed norwegian wood with mission impossible? that won a grammy! (or is that a hoax?)

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:46 (twenty-three years ago)

the Broklyn (one "o") Beats comp is very very worth your time. I-Sound is indeed on it.

your /rupture crack makes no fucking sense at all

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Worth noting though that both of sides of /rupture's Broklyn Beats' (sic) 7" appear on Gold Teeth Thief and one of the songs appears on Minesweeper Suite as well (not that this should keep you from buying the (sic) comp at all as the non /rupture stuff is quite good too.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:55 (twenty-three years ago)

what're the good new ones? from, say, after boomselection went down

it became tough to really judge whats good and whats bad once so many people were making competent but unimaginative bootlegs. e.g. Cure's 'Close To Me' vs Destiny's Child's 'Independent Women' is not imaginative (especially as i'd heard 5 other bootlegs of the DC track prior to that one) but it still works. i like Michael Jackson's 'Bad' vs Jolly Music's 'Radio Jolly' (by Mr 6) for no real reason other than i look both ingredients. personally i recommend IDC who puts a bit more effort into his stuff, e.g. Audio Bullys 'We Dont Care' vs Blur 'Girls & Boys' with lots of extra tweakage and Dsico continues to push things forward, sideways, all over the shop. for straight up bootlegs Churchill, Soundhog and the like have quietened down a bit but still come up the goods every now and then - Go Home Productions continue to churn them out meanwhile

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:56 (twenty-three years ago)

dj lance lockarm!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 00:58 (twenty-three years ago)

the /rupture tracks are really nice to have unmixed, though, Alex, for putting on your own mixes purposes

to answer Gaz: the only ones I've really heard post-Boom Selection are Go Home Productions' "Making Plans for Vinyl" (XTC vs. Tweet), Magic Cornflake's "Close to Me" (Destiny's Child vs. the Cure), and a CD that a friend of Tracer Hand's made that I have unfortunately not dived into yet. I like all of what I've heard fine, and am waiting to hear more--I definitely hope there's some network out there doing shit.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

matos - i mean, who cares what the "methods" for choosing tracks are? I still say his choices seem so obvious in context of the mixes, even though they aren't. Intuition. No need to intellectualize this further - we both sound like assholes. Let's just agree that /rupture is a gifted DJ, and I will buy the bbeats comp next time i'm at Kims.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i stopped bothering really checking out the latest ones a couple of months back to be honest. just didnt feel the need as much.

i am still loving the Britney vs Shakira vs Bee Gees one tho - really well done, when 'Stayin Alive' guitar drops under 'Whenever, Wherever' its definitely one of THOSE moments - this one got requested when i DJ'd last week so i had to download it, get it on CD and play it out - all in the space of about 3 hours (came up stright away in KaZaa) - result.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:02 (twenty-three years ago)

lance lockarm's 'dont you want my big head' http://falco.kuci.uci.edu/~brianm/lancelockarm/
dsico's 'i want boys'
http://www.4trak.net/dsico/

― helpsuit, Friday, 14 March 2003 01:04 (twenty-three years ago)

matos you're best best bet for new material is the gybo forum and bsx page (with links to the major bootleggers webpages, tho it hasnt been updated for a while) as posted on the final boomselection blog update.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm interested in his methods, Roger, because he's obviously going for something more than "these sound great let's throw 'em together." I like subtext and to me a great DJ set that has a subtext, intentional or not (and I say it is in large part because I've talked with him about it), deepens my appreciation for what he does. I'm not saying you have to like the subtext to like his music; Gold Teeth Thief and Minesweeper Suite are great DJ sets, period, with or without it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with picking up on clues that he is placing there if you want to find them.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:07 (twenty-three years ago)

thanks for the info stevem! dunno that I can download anything on my computer, alas, but it's probably worth a try....

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:09 (twenty-three years ago)

yes - perhaps yr right, though i never approached it that way. To me, both CDs are merely (and i use that word cautiously because it is no small feat) great dj mixes.

and what of this "Making Plans for Vinyl"? That sounds killer - gotta download that

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:10 (twenty-three years ago)

it's "Making Plans for Nigel" w/"Oops (Oh My)" on top of it. excellent stuff

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 01:35 (twenty-three years ago)

In a drunken Haze I mixed Eno- "Here Come The Warm Jets" with The Melvins- "Charmacarmacat" strait up Vinyl No adjuting the BPM.

― brg30 (brg30), Friday, 14 March 2003 04:13 (twenty-three years ago)

brg i'd love to hear that - mp3?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 04:33 (twenty-three years ago)

My interest was waning inthe whole thing but I heard a mix of windowlicker adn some human league song the other night which was great (as most of these things are on the first listen). I also still hold out hope for the whole thing as the result of once hearing an eminem/ destiny's child/ mental gabba hardcore type thing. Don't know what it was tho. Any ideas?

― neil, Friday, 14 March 2003 14:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I have loads of problems with bootlegs really, even though I like many.

Firstly they've been around for years anyway, I'm told by reliable sources that around the time of the Madonna/Stardust one, 3 or 4 years ago, there was already a big fuss over them all.

But that's not really my main problem, I think a huge percentage of them are just crap nods to older established songs, ie anything which uses Smells Like Teen Spirit. It's too big a record to ever be anything other than what it is, and to me what it is is crap. I was talking to Jess about this last night about the Smells Like Booty One and he said it was a bit lame in a "making Beyonce rock out" kinda way, and I agree. I realise all boots have novelty value, but some of them appear to ONLY have novelty value, in other words, the idea becomes more important than the result. Lets all fucking outwacky each other, basically.

Also as some random googler said on an old bootleg thread "I like bootlegs but please keep your shit rock music out of my dance club".

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 March 2003 15:30 (twenty-three years ago)

This is all that bastard/genius Tom Middleton's fault. Anyway Freelance Hellraiser is here on Sunday so I might have further bile or a slight retraction. I don't like his sets from radio shows but I did like him when I saw him before FC Kahuna at Cargo last summer.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 March 2003 15:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm coming at this late (i.e. I wish I could insert this comment halfway up the page), but the idea that mashups are about the "accelerated production more than it is the thing being oh-so-shockingly new" denies the existence of dancehall versions--which, incidentally, predate hip hop by quite some time. If you want accelerated production, Jamaica's your country...people have been producing "mashups" almost overnight--or even live--here for ages. If you turn on Irie Fm and listen for 10 minutes, you'll most certainly hear "Back for Good" over the stalag riddim or some other such nonsense.

― cybele, Friday, 14 March 2003 15:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Haterz!

Nirvana/Beyonce was one of my favorite bootlegs and I still enjoy listening to it. I could care less about whatever imagined politics you want to (over-)read into it, I just think it sounds great. I've always liked the music to that track, but sometimes get tired of the droning, moany vocals (this is my beef with modern rock music in general, actually, and many bootlegs handily solve it for me). Putting tweaked girl group voices on top of it is far preferable, to my mind. And as far as rock music in dance clubs goes, that's exactly the kind of purist bullshit that the bootleg spirit is opposed to, maaan.

I also don't really see how talking about accelerated production/distribution "denies" the existence of dancehall. (PS the internet aspect is what differentiates bootlegs from dancehall). This isn't a competition; talking about what characterizes bootlegs doesn't automatically negate everything else that came before. And anyway, the bootleg "scene" (aka Boom Selection) has actually been pretty scrupulous about cataloguing all the different precedents to it. I remember seeing some potted history on Boom Selection that took in most of the stuff people have mentioned here, and the comp itself had a bunch of tracks by people like Oswald etc.

Maybe it's over already as a social as well as musical phenomenon, and maybe there was a lot of hype about in the UK, but shit who cares, it was fun while it lasted...

― Ben Williams, Friday, 14 March 2003 16:15 (twenty-three years ago)

(and ps, just to undercut myself on the whole accelerated production thing, I will say that ultimately almost all the good bootlegs came from 4-5 producers, most of whom probably have some kind of record deal at the moment... in other words, talent always matters)

― Ben Williams, Friday, 14 March 2003 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah it's all well and good opposing purism but when half the things are about as well made as homer simpsons spice rack it's a different story.

Of course the DC/Nirvana thing is fine and my dislike is pretty irrational, but there you go.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

"eight spices...some have gotta be doubles"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:36 (twenty-three years ago)

"you might say the extra ingredient is salt!" haha

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

If you think of bootlegs as records (rather than as a phenomenon), then notice that they accounted for most of the best music released last year, why would you not still be excited by them?

― Burr, Friday, 14 March 2003 17:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Well if you were schizophrenic and disagreed with yourself, or if you were someone else, like me for example.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 March 2003 17:19 (twenty-three years ago)

WHAT IF??

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 17:19 (twenty-three years ago)

i can't remember who said it, trife probably, but he wanted more ROCK vocals over HIP HOP instrumentals - any ideas on why we don't have more of this?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 March 2003 17:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't understand why people consider DJ /rupture a part of the bootleg/mash-up scene. He's a DJ that mixes together disparate musical genres (quite well, I might add). Other than his Aaliyah remix on MINESWEEPER SUITE (and a KoolPop 7", I believe), I haven't heard anything by him I'd called a bootleg/mash-up. I guess what I'm getting at is, yeah, he samples North African/Middle Eastern music in his pieces, but I think of him more along the lines of the hip hop/techno producer/sampling continuum.

― Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Friday, 14 March 2003 17:48 (twenty-three years ago)

his mixing method fits pretty well with the 'plunderphonic' work of a lot of the artists who are connected however tenuously to the bootlegs side of things - just mixing any Missy Elliott track with anything else at all was enough to get you a mention on Boom Selection of course ;)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 March 2003 17:51 (twenty-three years ago)

more ROCK vocals over HIP HOP instrumentals - any ideas on why we don't have more of this?

Because the acapellas don't exist, mainly (hence me asking way up there if decent technology existed to extract them).

― s woods, Friday, 14 March 2003 17:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Whilst I do occasionally make them (Aphex Twin 'Alberto Balsam vs. 50 cent 'In Da Club'), they're more of a proof of concept for me. I can't remember the last one I downloaded (maybe Marshall's been snookered), It's mostly for the novelty. The biggest thrill they give me now isn't making them, it's uploading them and knowing that in minutes someone on the other side of the planet could be listening to it. That's the revolution.

― stephen. s (yaye), Friday, 14 March 2003 17:55 (twenty-three years ago)

the optimo boys did some incredible work with ableton during their stay in new york. the orchestra hits from UR's "transition" along with "sweet dreams", along with the guitar from a television song, along with etc etc. things are getting taken to the next level where (a few) DJs are building loops live and manipulating them in real time; like hearing someone assemble and disassemble tracks on the fly. the days of rekkid mixing may be O-vah

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 March 2003 17:57 (twenty-three years ago)

b-but richie hawtin!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 18:01 (twenty-three years ago)

(face it...nothing is new evah...all is lost...flee...)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 18:03 (twenty-three years ago)

and aside from loops, there's Final Scratch

accerelated overproduction: more people making bootlegs than listening to them/more people writing novels than reading them...

― Ben Williams, Friday, 14 March 2003 18:12 (twenty-three years ago)

heh "records are OVER" - i am a twat

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 March 2003 18:15 (twenty-three years ago)

i knew a guy when i lived in nyc who dj'd with nothing but mp3s

he got on my nerves

also, otomo yoshihide to thread

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 18:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Pl. expand on yr point abt Otomo, Jess - is he yet another gdfather of bootlegging, or does his example offer one way out of the current 'crisis'? And what abt Phillip Jeck, too?

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:44 (twenty-three years ago)

philip jeck released the best turntable based album i've heard in years (that wasn't a mix alb, obv)

mostly, i was just linking otomo to tracer's idea that records are "done"...more and more when i see/hear dj's that aren't older "names" (or hip-hop crate diggers), they're playing CDs or even mp3s (plz keep in mind this is also more "pop"/handbag dance too), but also you see more and more people on the fringes of dance/idm who are adopting a sort of "mixed media" dj approach - luomo, hawtin - where they are mixing up records, cd's, digi files, on the fly processing, loops, etc. (the 2manyDJ's record was banged out on a computer too, if i'm not mistaken.) vinyl's been a "throwback" culture for years, but i wonder if it's not going to become even more of a specialists domain as time goes on. (that whole marclay/jeck axis, old house dj's who can't "get with it", etc.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

more like "won't" get w/it, DJ'ing now joining gtr/bs/drms/vox as a purist/throwback medium

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:54 (twenty-three years ago)

also, there's already something somewhat heartbreakingly quaint about someone like jeff mills: "i've got three turntables, and a box of 12"s with almost no music on them, and i'm gonna make ART."

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:57 (twenty-three years ago)

then again mebbe making some new original creation with loops and FX and software and stuff is irrevokably beyond the standard DJ get-out clause "all i do is play records, really" and thus more of a throwback to artist as creator rather than artist as sifter, presenter, arranger

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 March 2003 21:33 (twenty-three years ago)

i second the greatness of Philip Jeck. and while w're on the subject, Janek Shaeffer rules too. Also, that great Unnattainable Text 7" on Diskono. Anyone know who that is?

This has very little to do with mash-ups tho.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 14 March 2003 23:03 (twenty-three years ago)

The only problem I have with the CD thing is that where most of the clubs haven't caught up yet, the one I go to has both cd decks and regular ones. On more than one occasion the DJ has wet himself with delight at this and decided to play all those nice tracks he has on CD, and basically fuck up his set entirely with about 7 classics or bootlegs and no mixing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 15 March 2003 13:37 (twenty-three years ago)

thats quite a can of worms in fact. the temptation i have succumbed to is to mix stuff and put that on CD then play that but obviously you couldnt JUST do this for an entire set so keeping it as versatile as you can with mixed media seems reasonable. fair enough if you want to see and hear a DJ primarily for the mixing and using just vinyl - too big as it is to be classed as a 'niche' but focussing on the mixing of vinyl, however skillful it is (more than anything else perhaps), is also somewhat limiting and restrictive for obvious reasons.

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 15 March 2003 13:51 (twenty-three years ago)

The thing is even with cd decks the guys don't seem to know how to use them right or if they do they don't bother. I think this sort of half assed approach is the problem. Having said that, my friend always plays stuff off CDs and mixes it with vinyl perfectly, and it's obviously very handy for getting stuff way before it comes out.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 15 March 2003 13:57 (twenty-three years ago)

hey Ronan i want to go to 'Fraggle' tonight but i'm probably gonna stay put to save cash. i hope to get to the next one tho...comin' back over soon?

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 15 March 2003 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

XFM's Remix (fridays 9-11)is still so ace
and plays one a week to show
you how it shouldn't be done and one a week (at least)
that blows hairs back.

― piscesboy, Saturday, 15 March 2003 15:19 (twenty-three years ago)

hopefully yeah, if I get some cash together. I spent loads on a PS2 though, it was a good decision cos I'm fucking glued to the thing since. I'll definitely be over for Glastonbury and at least twice more in the Summer, cos my nephew should be born in July sometime.

I was thinking of going to Homelands, can't really decide, it is tempting as ever.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 15 March 2003 15:58 (twenty-three years ago)

oi, matos...smells like teen booty. who that by? i aways thought it was soulwax but you call it as freelance hellraiser...

― gaz (gaz), Sunday, 16 March 2003 09:45 (twenty-three years ago)

its by Soulwax

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 16 March 2003 12:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Freelance Hellraiser tonight Steve, THE TRIAL BEGINS! That is if I don't spend the whole night whacking my head off the wall to Medicine8 and then maybe getting a chance to actually dance to Jon Carter.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 16 March 2003 13:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Freelance could just put on his '45 Special' CD mix on and i would be ecstatic - has to be heard loud in a club. have a good night ya lucky tart

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 16 March 2003 14:03 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

This certainly got me excited...

― Prude (Prude), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 06:12 (twenty-three years ago)

wow. are all bootlegs that sloppy and awful? (although it did make me rethink the line "ya got em in the place that likes it in ya face")

― Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 07:02 (twenty-three years ago)

nine months pass...

I am very excited by this one: http://www.turntablelab.com/real2/labindub/aleciakeysvsgregoryisaacs.ram -- if that counts for anything.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 22 February 2004 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Is the Smells Like Teen Spirit vs. Get Your Freak On mashup the sign that it's all over?

― Sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 06:18 (twenty-two years ago)

no that emerged only a few months after 'get ur freak on' itself iirc

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 11:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm enjoying the Blondie/Timberlake one a lot.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Tico (or anybody)-
You don't happen to have a link for said Blondie/Timberlake MP3, do you? S0u1s33k came up empty...

― Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

mymble2 on slsk - "bootlegs etc" is the folder you want.

song name - "justin likes blondes"

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

Led Zeppelin vs. Beyonce - Crazy Dick

― Pop Rocks (adamth), Friday, 26 March 2004 06:48 (twenty-two years ago)

that link wont work but it's soundhog right?
their kelis thing from last year was ace!

― piscesboy, Friday, 26 March 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

The only version of the GHP/Tweet "Making Plans For Vinyl" mashup I find on Slsk is the 'beatvandal remix' - is that the only version, or are there two?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 31 May 2004 06:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like the "Crazy Dick" mash. It's the most interesting one ive heard in a long time. Actually, come to think of it, it's the only one i've kept in over a year.

― Adam Bruneau, Monday, 31 May 2004 07:09 (twenty-two years ago)

really like this kylie - slow vs. mark ronson one:
http://lionelvy.valuehost.co.uk/downloads/kylie_ronson.mp3

― t, Monday, 31 May 2004 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

couple of newbies ..
whitey excellent 'leave it all behind' meets Mylo :
http://www.btinternet.com/~dancefloor/idc_-_leave_the_pressure.mp3

and theres tiga vs rex the dog vs soulwax :
http://www.btinternet.com/~dancefloor/idc_-_threee_talking.mp3

fun stuff continues ..
m.e

― mark e (mark e), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Audio Shrapnel continues to do highly entertaining stuff. the mixes recorded with James Hyman are good fun.

― Stevem On X (blueski), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

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