XTC fans (or non-): possible explanations of their appeal???

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
I never bought an XTC record. Not a whole lot of fondness for their popular songs on the radio. Somewhat curious all these years about what all was on all of those albums but never enough to buy a cheap used one.

Now someone has burned me a copy of English Settlement. It's been sitting in a pile for a month and I finally decided to at least try to scan through it somewhat thoroughly. Having a hard time even wanting to continue doing that. Questions in my mind about the nature of their appeal:

What is the aesthetic context in which XTC fans view the band's music? Are they viewed as being pop-oriented, eccentric studio prog rock done in a New Wave context a la, say, Peter Gabriel or Kate Bush? If so, are they really as GOOD as those two artists? This would take two factors into consideration:

1. Being prog--Is the music as enjoyably complex/intricate/involved as Peter Gabriel or Kate Bush?

2. Being eccentric--Are they as enjoyably and interestingly eccentric as either Kate Bush or Peter Gabriel?

OR...is their music viewed as UKpsych-influenced pop done in a modernized, new wavicized, maybe even post-punkified context? I ask because, as pop music, for one thing, it doesn't strike me as being particularly energetic or even all that "hook-y." And as psychedelic-influenced post-punk new wave, I feel like so many others did it better. This would include:

UK: Robyn Hitchcock (at his best anyway), later period Damned, obscure people like Martin Newell, Paul Roland, etc.

US: Paisley Underground groups, particularly early Rain Parade (who were way more accurate--in an enjoyable way--about being retro) and Three O'Clock (way more rocking and dynamic, whatever you might think about the lyrics and singer).

OK, these are my thoughts...

Tim Ellison, Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

You don't like "Senses Working Overtime" or "Snowman"?

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

(I know I could go on for 4,000 words trying to explain their appeal and influences, but I settled for suggesting, "That's a weird album, but have you tried this one single from it?")

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I dearly love XTC so will try not to waffle.

Try buying the greatest hits, it makes most sense.

Judging from interviews I've heard, the two main songwriters (and now two remaining original members) draw generally on musical references from their own youth, namely Sixties psychedelia (mostly UK), bubblegum pop and elements of easy listening. If a chronological map of their own sound could be drawn it would look very generally like this.

Glam Pop w/ whizzy Sci Fi keyboards.

Herky Jerky New Wave.

As above, but trying less hard to be overtly dissonant and becoming better composed.

Acoustic elements creep in.

Tempos slow a little, pastoral elements creep in.

Broader songwriting, sixties, world music and folk/early music elements appear. (circa English Settlement).

Big drum sounds generally out, more keyboards, acoustic guitars, quirky production tricks and a sniff of Psychedelia.

Mildly distressing diversion into Eighties production style with rip-roaring drum machines and Fairlight samplers etc:

Above offset by side project consisting of Psychedelia/Power Pop/Sixties pastiches.

Lingering Sixties elements. Pastoral/folk touches back in bolder strokes, strings sections and Todd Rundgren kitchen sink production.

As above but with Billy-Big-Bollocks L.A. production values.

Less obvious sixties pastiche elements, more mature songwriting, kinda reaching a grown up amalgam of previous influences.

Xtc where they are today, Andy Partridge still willing to write music that is big, brash, heartfelt and sometimes a little over the top.

Moulding relaxes into old age by writing, often dodgy, easy listening ditties.

mzui, Saturday, 26 June 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Part of an answer would be: Beatles-derived eccentric pop disguised as having something to do with punk. For instance: when I was in junior high or high school, just about the only other person I knew who was into some of the same new bands was mostly into the Sex Pistols, PiL, and. . . XTC. I think partly it's because some of their best songs were ska-derived and ska was associated with punk. In retrospect, I wouldn't say there is that much that is punk about XTC. Judging them by progressive rock standards is a mistake though.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 26 June 2004 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

This doesn't seem to me like music that requires a particular effort to enjoy. That may be a generational thing though. Anyway, I'm not even sure I think you ought to make an effort to enjoy it. It's not Anthony Braxton or something. If it fails to please you in a fairly immediate way, then that probably settles things.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 26 June 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

The early stuff sounds very post-punk to me -- like a British Talking Heads. Jerky, funk-influenced rhythms + a little attitude

Their best song (granted I've only heard a few albums plus the singles) is clearly and absolutely "I'd Like That"

Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 26 June 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris, I think that "Senses Working Overtime" is a well-written song, but there's a cuteness to it that I don't find to be endearing.

Tim Ellison, Saturday, 26 June 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

How do you feel about "Yacht Dance"?

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 26 June 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

If you don't like them, you don't like them. The lengthiest explanations are useless. For example, Making Plans For Nigel either makes sense in a funny way or it doesn't.

English Settlement I wouldn't include with some of their strongest albums.

Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 26 June 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Tim I don't think that
album is the best first heard,
Drums and Wires makes sense

only longtime fans
will get E.S. properly
(that's its problem/strength)

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 26 June 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

People who don't like cute things are hopeless

Twee As Fuck (Keiko), Saturday, 26 June 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I like plenty of cute things, friend. I can, however, think of plenty of things that are intended to be cute, but which I do not like. Barney would be a good example. (Not comparing Barney to "Senses Working Overtime," friends.)

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

And friend, I hope that you no longer feel that your dire characterization of me as "hopeless" was accurate. :)

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If you don't like them, you don't like them. The lengthiest explanations are useless.

i agee with this

English Settlement I wouldn't include with some of their strongest albums.

i do NOT agree with this. every song on english settlement is amazing. even DOWN IN THE COCKPIT.

cutty (mcutt), Sunday, 27 June 2004 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked the Brazilian-sounding main acoustic guitar riff in "Yacht Dance," but I don't know as that I liked much else.

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't view ES as cute at-all, and I think it's a great album to dive into. Okay it's quite long but it has some amazing tracks.

I could maybe settle for 'over earnest' instead of cute.

mzui, Sunday, 27 June 2004 03:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I was just referring to "Senses Working Overtime."

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I felt immediate love for "Senses Working Overtime". It was mindboggling to me. Now "Love On A Farmboy's Wages", that's where I got confused. Not now. But then. I can see where people are coming from. They were always "quirky". And "quirky" doesn't work for everybody. Or at least everyone has different quirkiness levels and comfort zones. Robyn Hitchcock might be yours, but not XTC. ("Ted, Woody, & Junior" being the point where Robyn confused me.)

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 27 June 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

My first response to "Senses Working Overtime" was: what is this normal sounding rock song doing on my college radio station?! It didn't sound like punk, post-punk, Krautrock, or prog., and it definitely wasn't anything more esoteric than that. Later I got to like it.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Sunday, 27 June 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

only longtime fans
will get E.S. properly
(that's its problem/strength)

That's interesting because I didn't start liking XTC until I bought a used of ES. Granted, the only album I heard before that was Skylarking (and I thought that absolutely sucked until a couple weeks ago).

Alex Pittman (Alex Pittman), Sunday, 27 June 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

It's just one of many mistaken generalizations on this thread.

Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 27 June 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"'Ted, Woody, & Junior'" being the point where Robyn confused me."

Haha Nina Blackwood just played "Balloon Man" on New Wave Nation!

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I was speaking for myself about English Settlement--first time I heard it, I was ?? A couple of years later, with a couple more records in my arsenal, I was !!

Rockist, WTF with you today?

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Did I attack you personally Begs2Differ? WTF with the freakout? I disagreed with you. Is that unheard of on ILM?

Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 27 June 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I wasn't freaking...
oh forget it. I'd explain,
but what's the point? PEACE

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

They're like a pretentious Smashmouth.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the songs that sound most like Smashmouth (the stuff they did when they had a drummer).

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I say Smashmouth one more time on this thread? Smashmouth.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

pretentious Smashmouth.

actually Smashmouth can be pretty pretentious too, just these guys got pretentious in a more baroque way. I guess the equasion is XTC - "Sgt. Peppers is the best album ever" + rasp = Smashmouth

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"Jason and the Argonauts" is pastoral-prog dancepunk, 'kay!

I would never consider XTC alongside Gabriel or Bush -- completely different aesthetics going on there. I can never imagine XTC giving off the same air of gravity, seriousness, artiness, or self-importance (note: I love Gabriel and Bush, too) as these two. If you're going to say that Gabriel and Bush are better at being prog (which in your definition seems only to mean being complex and intricate), then there are surely a WHOLE SHITLOAD of artists better than G and B! Same argument defeats your second point about eccentricity, too.

I realize that you're just trying to work out why you don't like them and I respect that, but you're pigeonholing them somewhere they just don't belong. I'd say your second characterization of them (as UK psych-pop/etc.) is much more on-point, but as far as them not being especially energetic or hooky... I can't reach into your ears and take the cotton out from over here! Seriously, though, you should get Black Sea if you want to give them a second chance. That was the album that completely and totally sold me on them, and their other records are easier to understand once you have a basis from which to appreciate their sound and approach.

Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Sunday, 27 June 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, Partridge is an incredibly inventive and unique guitarist, though he's not flashy about it.

Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Sunday, 27 June 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, my prog thing on this topic, of course, had to do with what I was defining as "pop-oriented, eccentric studio prog rock done in a New Wave context," not just prog in general.

Basically, what I'm asking is whether or not a part of what XTC fans like about their music is some sense of a perceived prog-ness. By this, I'm referring specifically to complexity in the songwriting, playing, studio arrangements and production, etc. (plus a general sense of eccentricity), as opposed to the prog elements that you bring up (gravity, seriousness, artiness, or self-importance).

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Tim, with all due respect, I find a lot of the things you say on ILM kind of curious.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Sunday, 27 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Like Richard Nixon, I want to make myself perfectly clear.

No, really...my guess is that it's not the complexity that people like about XTC, but rather their melodicism and sound. The complexity is some sort of icing on the cake?

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

...for the XTC fan to feed his or her face?

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 27 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not going to repeat last week's rant, but XTC requires time to settle in. You can't just grab, say, English Settlement and expect it to hit you immediately. You need to give it ~20 listens before it hooks you, but when it does it really does.

Explanations of their appeal? Incredible songwriting, gorgeous lyricism, unmatched consistency.

(I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and) Whittle Away My Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Sunday, 27 June 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Basically, what I'm asking is whether or not a part of what XTC fans like about their music is some sense of a perceived prog-ness. By this, I'm referring specifically to complexity in the songwriting, playing, studio arrangements and production, etc. (plus a general sense of eccentricity), as opposed to the prog elements that you bring up (gravity, seriousness, artiness, or self-importance).

I don't think they're prog (and I like Yes and Floyd, and I don't see any common ground). I like Andy Partridge because he's a fantastic lyricist and writes direct, extremely effective pop songs.

In reference to "Senses Working Overtime" sounding cute: I see your point, and some people I've played XTC for hear an "oompa-loompa" quality in it. I attribute that to a willingness to be totally innocent, even naive, about their subject matter - spring, family, hallucinations, destroying civilization and reverting back to nature - and then giving themselves to it with total exuberance. Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush don't seem like good points of reference for XTC, and even next to a lot of post-punk they're a lot more giddy/innocent sounding.

I'd start with Drums and Wires ('specially "Helicopter," "Real by Reel" and "Scissor Man") or, as mentioned above, Black Sea. English Settlement took a while to settle in with me - now it's about my favorite record ever.

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

To be specific: I don't think they have any of the prog elements you list, Tim.

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

xtc started as a pop-punk combo, all hurried-up songs, then sometime in the 80s they transformed themselves into what the beatles would have sounded had they continued recording Sgt. Pepper's - type music, mixed with a good dose of Kinks. This last XTC phase managed to get them many fans, especially after Skylarking. Dear God (which was promptly included in the US version of the CD) illustrates this pretty well....So does Oranges and Lemons. So, my theory predicts that all people with a soft spot for the Beatles and the Kinks type of music will migrate to XTC with little pain.

AndreNY (AndreNY), Monday, 28 June 2004 01:53 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, I just don't know about the Beatles/Kinks thing, Andre.

Again, I'm only familiar with XTC from their songs that have been played on alternative rock/cutting edge radio since the beginning of the format (early-'80s, where I live--they've had a decent amount of songs on there, obvioulsy), plus hearing ES now and, I don't know...I remember hearing 25 O'Clock once and I heard part of Apple Venus a few years ago. I understand the impulse to call them Beatle-esque, but how accurate is that, ultimately? How much is a given XTC album really and truly equivalent to Sgt. Pepper or Magical Mystery Tour? Or how much is it equivalent to, say, the Kinks' Something Else (from the Kinks era that I am presuming you're talking about)?

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

XTC is in no way prog. It sits just outside categorisation, but it's certainly not prog. Glam in the early days, perhaps.

Where does the XTC-Yes comparison come from? I've seen the parallel drawn loads of times, but the two bands are utterly mutually exclusive.

(I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and) Whittle Away My Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 28 June 2004 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Just to reassert, in using the term "prog" with regard to XTC, I wasn't thinking of Yes or Pink Floyd. I know that XTC might not sound very much like Peter Gabriel or Kate Bush, but I wondered if their fans like them for the same reasons that P.G. or K.B. fans like P.G. and K.B. By this, I mean that they like the progressive musical sophistication while also liking the fact that, unlike certain progressive rock dinosaurs, the music sounds modern and New Wave.

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

THEYRE CUTER THAN THE BEATLES. THEY ARE ALL THE CUTE ONE.

Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 28 June 2004 03:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Tim, I think they're more like power pop bands - it's nice when they experiment musically, but it's never the point.

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 28 June 2004 04:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah. Well in that case, yes, but it's a wide net to cast.

(I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and) Whittle Away My Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 28 June 2004 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

XTC and prog are affiliated I think because of the kind of arrangements XTC uses, especially from English Settlement onwards. They're usually at least as complex as, say, your average 70s Yes epic - just not as long, and the actual songs are rooted in pop.

Also, a lot of prog fans happen to like XTC.

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Dukes of the Stratosphear
PERIOD

Thor, Monday, 28 June 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Dukes Of Stratosphear.

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 28 June 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

What Dahlen said. And if you want to hear the Beatle-esque thing, go straight to the string arrangement on "Grass" — or anything on Skylarking, for that matter. But more than prog as you describe it, Tim, I think of XTC (Partridge, really) as craftsmen above all else.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 28 June 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

The relationship between XTC and prog is pretty much summed up for me by Dave Gregory’s guitar solos: this is a guy who can play these jazz-inflected ultra-composed and just blazingly precise breaks, and yet nary a one of them lasts longer than ten seconds. Which extends all over the band: they’re ridiculously adept at lots of aspects of their songwriting and musicianship and performance, but for the most part they pump that skill into building up the kind of Catchy Pop Songs anyone could be doing.

Best thing about XTC that people tend not to talk about: the performances tend to be amazing. Particularly around Drums and Wires: not only is Partridge a distinctive and engaging vocalist (the stutters and snorts on like “Scissor Man” and “Outside World” come out so well you almost don’t notice how odd they are), but as a band they just tear and swing, all casual, through some pretty acrobatic shifts (again, “Scissor Man”). (If they’d been playing something dark and heavy, my guess is that rock fans would look back at them as gods; but when you play giddy pop, people tend to read skill as just a given, or even a detriment.) The instrumental hot-performances faded away when they went into their pastoral studio-pop phase, obviously, but Partridge’s vox stayed as keen as ever.

Liking them around “Skylarking,” like everyone says, is just about enjoying mildly “sophisticated” pop songwriting and arrangement, something they do quite well and quite interestingly. (On that level there’s maybe a lean toward the kind of English “adult” pop songwriting that Bush and Gabriel are maybe part of --- I could imagine later-era Bush singing, say, “Another Satellite” --- but it’s so less theatrical and much more just “pop.”) And yes, it helps if you like the sort of giddy imaginary-pop vibe they’ve picked up from psychedelia. Just like lots of bands, from the Beatles to the Ladybug Transistor: this is sort of stage-musical dreamyland pop, a very knowing Apollonian construction of pop conventionals, not some real-world Dionysian thing. Which is why the Dukes of Stratosphear make a good shortcut to what the band’s all about: these are three guys who happily made up a corny alter-ego just to do really superb and only occasionally goofy pastiches of psychedelic pop.

For what it’s worth, I like XTC quite a lot, and I wouldn’t recommend English Settlement as a starting point. I’d recommend Drums and Wires and Skylarking.

nabiscothingy, Monday, 28 June 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I like 'Mayor of Simpleton' but then again that's the only thing I've ever heard by them really.

57 7th (calstars), Monday, 28 June 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Holy Crow. If you can't appreciate the UTTER BRILLIANCE of XTC (in any of their permutations -- whether early "punky" material or their later "bucolic pop" phase), you sincerely don't deserve to the ears that God stapled to your skull. Return them at once. No refund!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 28 June 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

See, I'd easily recommend English Settlement (or Drums & Wires) as a good starting point. It was certainly the album that got me hooked on XTC. "Senses Working Overtime" was my entry point - still one of the best songs I've ever heard - but really, there's not a single bad track in the bunch. Looking back at it now, it's a bridge between XTC's "quirky" earlier days ("No Thugs In Our House" fits in well next to "Respectable Street" or "Into The Atom Age") and their "pastoral" later material. How about not worrying about where English Settlement fits in within music history? It's like the non-music fans in my midst who hear songs I like and ask "so what kind of music is this?"

mike a, Monday, 28 June 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Their first three albums are at least as good as, um, the debut album by the Yachts (who sound kind of similar), though not as good as *Breakfast in America* by Supertramp. That pretty, critically acclaimed album they did in the late '80s (Skylarking, I guess) was, um, pretty and critically acclaimed, I guess. Their "quirkiness" was/is nowhere near as annoying as, say, Robyn Hitchcock's or They Might Be Giants' quirkiness, for whatever that's worth. I have never understood why people think they were "funky." They were less funky than 10cc, that's for sure. Less funky than the Sparks, probably. Less funky than the FIRST Talking Heads album. More funky than Wire (when Wire were good, and not *trying* to be funky, at which they sucked, anyway) I guess, but who wasn't? Less funky than '70s OR early '80s Roxy Music, not even close. Less funky than ABC or Dead or Alive or A Flock of Seagulls or Frankie Goes to Hollywood or any of those guys, obviously. WAY less funky than Devo or the B-52s (or Gary Numan or Mi Sex, I suppose, which I guess is what "Making Plans for Nigel" was trying to do.(And that's only fellow art-pop/arch-pop bands I'm comparing them to. They were less funky than Molly Hatchet, as well!) Still? Their first three albums, as artfuckster new wave goes? Not bad. After that, they seemed to try to go all Sgt Pepper's prog-pop on us, and they got even stiffer and whiter and thinner than they'd started out as. I don't think their words ever made sense. MAabe people think they were funky because they took the beginning riff of "Life Begins at the Hop" from the 4 Tops?? Who the hell knows.

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

its weird that youd compare them to the yachts. the yachts songs and the XTC songs are the only songs i dont really love on those DIY UK pop compilations... the vocal production/vocals on both bother me a little.

peter smith (plsmith), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck, did you just criticize XTC for how unfunky they are?

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah. I'm not sure if I was answering anybody on this thread, though. Maybe I was just answering a pitch letter that Sasha Frere Jones sent to me about their box set three years ago; I can't remember...

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I send you a pitch about how James Brown doesn't write enough songs influenced by the Beatles and Brian Wilson?

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

(actually, check XTC's cover of "All Along the Watchtower" for tense post-punk funk in action)

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

chuck why do you always insist on bringing in things that have nothing to do with the subject at hand?

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

chuck is the best I am buying that one book of his where he " insist[s] on bringing in things that have nothing to do with the subject at hand?"

artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I know, I know, it's just his schtick...

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do you insist on being such a ridiculous literalist, Shakey? How does what I wrote "have nothing to do with the subject at hand" when somebody up above wrote "The early stuff sounds very post-punk to me -- like a British Talking Heads. Jerky, funk-influenced rhythms + a little attitude." The best music XTC ever made has a lot more to do with the Talking Heads than with the Beatles or Brian Wilson. I really don't give a shit about their later tedium. (And they were less funky than the Beach Boys used to be, anyway.) (And if they were trying to be the Beatles or Beach Boys, well, 10cc and Boston and ELO and Wings and the Knack were a lot better at it.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

you brought up funk, which has nothing to do with XTC (and no one up to your post had mentioned it), then you went off on your usual rambling spiel where you namedrop a million bands ranging from the obscure to the mainstream (many of which bear no relation to the music being discussed), use some false modesty to cover your ass ("I could be wrong,", "maybe", "my memort is crappy" ad nauseam). I mean, don't you get tired of doing the same joke over and over?

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, really chuck you're just as predictable as Geir Hongro, someone should just write a program to do your posts for you and you could retire in peace.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I think XTC's early period has a lot more to do with Capt Beefheart, Kinks, Can, Roxy Music and Brian Eno, Sparks, David Bowie, etc - the same group of influences Talking Heads would have had.

And 'funk' isn't really something I've ever associated with them, in any phase.

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i am sure chuck can defend hisself, but how could anyone ever tire of his schtick? it is hilarious and occasionally (or always or never - doesn't really matter) makes sense. and he doesn't always invoke the schtick anyway.

artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

>>no one up to your post had mentioned it)<<

uh, yes somebody did. and i just quoted them in my previous post. (and again, sasha frere jones has defended xtc to me as a funky band as well. i don't really care whether you think funk has nothing to do with xtc; some people clearly disagree with you. and i answered them.) and ALL of the bands relate to the music being discussed, or I would not have mentioned them. (and my memory IS crappy sometimes. though apparently not as crappy as your reading comprehension.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I understand that it's your journalistic mission to show how every band is related to every other band and how genre labels are essentially empty and useless and how it's all just music maaaaan, but y'know, that just doesn't seem like an interesting or useful goal to me.

But hey, go nuts. You tell those people (all one of them on this thread) that XTC is NOT funky! YEAH!

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I was trapped in an elevator with Colin Moulding for nearly eighteen hours once, and lemme tell you, toward the end we were both of us getting way funky.

nabiscothingy, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

> think XTC's early period has a lot more to do with Capt Beefheart, Kinks, Can, Roxy Music and Brian Eno, Sparks, David Bowie, etc <

Two of which I mentioned on this thread before anybody else had, but since I was obviously just picking random bands out my ass who have NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH XTC (even though ALL of the bands I named have a fairly similar aesthetic to XTC, i.e.: jagged or ornate artiste pop songs with wacky lyrics, more or less -- plus almost all of them are British, as I recall, oops fuck you), I guess that's just a coincidence. (Hell, if saying XTC isn't funky offends people 'cause nobody would ever think to call XTC funky in the first place, I'll just say XTC never seemed very SMART to me, either. But now I guess people will tell me nobody ever thought XTC were smart! I can't win.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

touched a nerve there...

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"jagged or ornate artiste pop songs with wacky lyrics"

yeah, that's totally what I think of when I hear the names Molly Hatchet, SuperTramp, and Dead or Alive. (clue: this is sarcasm) Carry on...

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

this is a guy who can play these jazz-inflected ultra-composed and just blazingly precise breaks, and yet nary a one of them lasts longer than ten seconds. Which extends all over the band: they’re ridiculously adept at lots of aspects of their songwriting and musicianship and performance, but for the most part they pump that skill into building up the kind of Catchy Pop Songs anyone could be doing.

I think this gets at a lot of what I like about the XTC songs I like. I love the brief guitar "solos," if you can call them that, on a song like "Ten Feet Tall." Actually, it kind of reminds me of the solos you get on the first side of the Velvet Underground's The Velvet Underground.

Much of the time I like them in spite of their quirkiness, which probably makes me less than a true XTC fan. I like them primarily for narrowly musical reasons (and because the fun things they do musically also move me), and because I do like many of the lyrics, at least in bits and pieces. The lyrics usually make plenty of sense to me, and on English Settlement, I like the way, for instance, "Yacht Dance" picks up the same themes as "Sense Working Overtime."

I don't know if I'd called them funky (and I am less and less sure I even know what funky means--I think I go for a different type of rhythm than what funk is about), but I think they are very strong rhythmically at times. It's not just a matter of melody.

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

chuck thinks bob seger is funky

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I was trapped in an elevator with Colin Moulding for nearly eighteen hours once, and lemme tell you, toward the end we were both of us getting way funky.

spill it. Oh, Chuck, fwiw, Colin Moulding is a huge Free fan.

Smart? I don't know. I would like to see you argue your way out of saying "XTC aren't anal enough".

x-post

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

But so Chuck not caring about later-XTC is an obvious non-shocker. The thing about later-XTC is that it’s hard to defend it using any sort of grand history-of-music “this is what they contributed” theory. Hence the Beatles/Beach Boys talk: much of the material is just good pop, done good and well. Somewhere in all of that, though, I think there are flashes of things --- not even full songs, necessarily, just stuff-they-did --- that are nothing short of amazing, in all sorts of directions: I’m thinking of things on Skylarking like “Mermaid Smiled” or that sorta post-Police post-Bush “Another Satellite,” or the almost-concrete construction of “Dying,” or even their weirdly nice cod-jazz rhythmic inventions, like Oranges and Lemons’s “Miniature Sun.” Good pop, done well --- often in really interesting ways. After Oranges and Lemons I have no coherent defense for them, except that the pizzicato-pluck first song on the first Apple Venus is just magnificently arranged and the vocal performance is terrific.

Speaking of relevant bands: Stump! I feel a grand convergence between A Fierce Pancake and like Black Sea / bits of Drums and Wires.

I think we can grant Chuck's point that XTC were never particularly funky, let it die, and instead focus on this: the words don't make sense? Whuh? If anything this band's main word-problem has been making a little too much sense.

nabiscothingy, Monday, 28 June 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think their words ever made sense.

I'm with Nitsuh, I couldn't disagree more - Partridge is a fan-fucking-tastic lyricist, and even their psyched-out imagery at least fits the music.

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 28 June 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

skylarking sounds great if you are stoned. or so i've heard.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

>"jagged or ornate artiste pop songs with wacky lyrics"
yeah, that's totally what I think of when I hear the names Molly Hatchet, SuperTramp, and Dead or Alive. <

It *should* be what you think of when you hear Supertramp, since it's exactly what Supertramp (as influenced by late '60s Beatles as XTC, and with their best album the same year as *Drums and Wires*) did. Dead Or Alive and the other '80s MTV Brit dance bands I named (ABC, A Flock of Seagulls, Frankie Goes to Hollywood) evolved out of the dance oriented Brit new wave XTC were part of circa 1979, and all made it dancier and more propulsive. Molly Hatchet were mentioned as a parenthetical aside in the post expressly to suggest that artsy British pop was hardly the funkiest white pop music around during the time XTC were doing their most rhythmic work. So yeah, again, they all had something to do with the subject at hand. Sorry if I didn't lead you by the hand explaining that step by step the first time.

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

These days, Partridge's words (and be honest, when people talk about XTC, they're usually really just talking about Andy Partridge - even though "Grass" might be the best song on Skylarking) are as much word association as they are functional, narrative-driven prose. However, I agree, he's one of the great lyricists (see especially "No Language in Our Lungs", on almost this very topic)

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

That's weird, I heard the same thing (on Skylarking) (while stoned) (the first song is called "Grass!"). Skylarking still feels like a big terrific musical to me, not least because the songs clearly describe a life cycle. (I've always wondered about the notes crediting Rundgren with the "sequencing concept" or something of that sort; clearly it went from the lyrics up!) (This is also why the substitution of "Dear God" bothers me --- not just because "Mermaid Smiled" is way way better but because that it completely alters the mood of the life cycle to put a moment of religious crisis in there instead.)

Another interesting reference point: Partridge vs. Costello. (Up through "10,000 Umbrellas" vs. The Juliet Letters!)

nabiscothingy, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost ruins joke; joker gets high and listens to skylarking

nabiscothingy, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

steve miller sues

nabiscothingy, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

>If anything this band's main word-problem has been making a little too much sense.<

In fact, you could almost say their sense was working overtime! (But I couldn't.) (I do think dleone's "not anal enough" comment was pretty funny, though. And no, I can't make that argument, either.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

summer's cauldron is the first song on skylarking.

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

1000 Umbrellas = wow

cavalcade of x-posts

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

does everyone ignore colin's sacrificial bonfire?

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I will stick up for Robyn's quirkiness through Fegmania or so!

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Skylarking and Talk Talk's The Colour Of Spring were two of the very first cds I ever bought after my dad bought me a cd boombox when I graduated from high school. Those two cds set me up for some major disappointments as far as sound quality went when I made future cd purchases in the 80's. Wait, scratch that. I didn't buy them. I stole them from the record store that I my brother worked at.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

And Globe of Frogs!

re: robyn

danh (danh), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, one thing that should be pointed out here is that I have never owned a very expensive stereo, which might explain something about why these guys have never hit me for the past 25 years. And my socks frequently tend not to match, as well. Plus I don't speak British.

cgycj, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I wouldn't mind listening to some of the old albums right now. I don't know what i have anymore. i haven't heard anything by them since the peter pumpkinhead album. i didn't care for that one at the time, but i might like it more now.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i've been listening to them non-stop since this thread started.

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, in the sense (working overtime) of somewhat rhythmic late '70s Brit new wave jumping-around music for hyperactive aesthetes "progressing" toward prissy and way less rhythmic post-prog '80s Brit art-rock for genteel aesthetes who read too much, I think the Police are an obvious comparison who have barely been mentioned on this thread and maybe should be more often. But that's just me.

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck, I first got into Skylarking on a monoaural single earphone (the kind old people used to use to listen to the TV), so I don't know if that cuts it! And I mentioned the Police, but there's this giant split in the Fun Quotient that made me feel bad doing it. Same vague Jamaicanisms and yelpy inflections and sharp guitars and movement toward new wave and then "adult pop," but god what a different tone.

A thousand pardons on Summer's Cauldron, yo. And I certainly don't forget "Sacrificial Bonfire"; I just always get distracted by "Dying" first. Colin's songs have an especially Muppetty quality that's sometimes just wrong (by the Apple Venuses he was turning into the High Llamas in a really bad way) and sometimes sweet -- Bonfire's on the way-good side.

nabiscothingy, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember being annoyed when I heard XTC's "Ella Guru" cover. At first it bothered me that they were playing it note-for-note, until I realized that they were even playing the tape edits in Beefheart's original identically, so I was impressed. I think my favourites are "Snowman" and "Helicopter". Um, I wish I had more to say.


...And PLEASE, don't let's start that old "Bob Seger, funky or not?" farce again! There's no convincing anyone who hasn't heard his old stuff, it's a futile argument.

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm just saying. chuck fancies himself a funkologist...

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

>vague Jamaicanisms <

Oh yeah, wait, wasn't XTC's second album a dub record? I'd totally forgotten about that. Did they ever pick up on that, or did they just abandon it? I guess I think of them as getting way LESS fun over the years, just like the Police (whose first three albums hit me as even more fun than the first three XTCs, which it may surprise people to hear that I actually DO like regardless.) Anyway, their career progressions seem very similar to me. As they got older and more pretentious, they retreated from energy and rhythm and boucing around... Either way, why did both bands decide as they got older that their experimentation would involve melodies more than rhythm, and would have more in common with, say, Yes (or, I dunno, Gershwin or somebody -- you tell me) than with Lee Perry? Or is that only my imagination? And if not, am I the only person here bugged by it??

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I'd be less bugged by it if (like Gershwin or somebody) they were better melodists than they actually are.

* Runs for cover *

* Adds disclaimer that he is not an XTC expert *

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

go 2 is not a dub record by any means.

there are "vague jamaicanisms" spread throughout all their early work.

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I'd be less bugged by it if (like Gershwin or somebody) they were better melodists than they actually are.

Don't make me start writing lists!!!

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I remain open-minded!

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck, I see some of the Police/XTC comparisons but Andy Partridge and Sting are coming from such different places - Partridge has the innocent exuberance, and Sting was fame-obsessed and pretentious. Plus, Partridge fired the band member he hated the most after their second album, relieving them of the (productive?) band tension that the Police lived with through Synchronicity.

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think XTC got more pretentious. More whimsical. More pastoral. More 60's-obsessed. But there was always humor. Unlike the Police for the most part.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

>go 2 is not a dub record by any means<

Is the first one? (Oddly, for a long time the main commercial new wave radio show in Detroit was called "Radios in Motion"!) I haven't listened to the first or second one for ages, and now I kinda want to (maybe even the fourth; I liked "Generals and Majors" okay.) Anyway, I could have sworn that one of those early records had a bunch of dub versions on it. But, though I'm sure Shakey will think I'm just being falsely modest and shticky again (hey, it's FUN shtick! and hardly my only one!!), maybe my memory's just wrong. It's been a while.

Scott, I think I frequently *equate* "whimsy" with "pretension." (I have really never been a huge whimsy fan, I have to admit.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I really started getting into XTC more while listening to a cassette mix on a car on what I think was a mono tape player.

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 28 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

chuck - but you like pastoral-prog. that's why you might like some of Skylarking.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

XTC use muso tendencies to *attempt* to make better music. Sting uses muso tendencies to cultivate a ridiculous image of being some kind of Rennaissance man.

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, I could have sworn that one of those early records had a bunch of dub versions on it.

It did. You're thinking of this:

http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDMISS70406171620380159&sql=A2ju67ub070jk

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

for the record, Crime Of The Century is by far my fave Supertramp album. But then I've only heard a couple Supertramp records.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

>chuck - but you like pastoral-prog. that's why you might like some of Skylarking. <

Yeah, I actually remember that album having fairly pretty melodies when it came out, but then I forgot about it. I should play it back to back with the first Stackridge album sometime and see what happens. (But first I have to track down a copy of Stackridge!) (Plus, obviously I don't think "pretentious" equals "bad" per se'. And I LIKE Yes and lots of prog rock. Maybe even more than Lee Perry, when you get down to it. But Yes had a better rhythm section and a better singer than XTC, I think.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Ned's right, this is the dub I was thinking about: "XTC's Go+ EP (packaged free with initial copies of the Go 2 album in the U.K.) "

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Even without a dub remix, there are obvious nods to dub on Drums & Wires and English Settlement.

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 28 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

>XTC use muso tendencies to *attempt* to make better music. Sting uses muso tendencies to cultivate a ridiculous image of being some kind of Rennaissance man. <

Well, it seems to me that, on Synchronicity and Ghost in the Machine, Sting was really doing the former at least as much as the latter. But of course there's no way to know anybody's intentions.

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

XTC used to
'dub' live in the studio,
by leaving notes out

there's a whole cult thing
built around partridge bad luck,
battles with stage fright--

I just like the songs,
some are funny some are not,
too many lyrics

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I don't think that pretentious equals bad, I just don't think of XTC's music as being all that pretentious. Big and ambitious sometimes.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

too many lyrics

You're related to Emperor Joseph, aren't you.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

100 posts and I didn't get a lick of shit for my Smashmouth comparison!

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

when i think of pretension i do think of later police and stuff like U2 (two kinda contemporaries) where the feeling is that "overblown" equals "emotion" or something like that. I always got the impression from XTC (up until the apples & oranges album which i did think was kinda overblown) that they were enamored with the 60's ethos in regard to the "possibilities" of rock/pop/recording studio. Sound, big ideas, etc. Maybe in an artsy way, but for themselves first, and the audience after. Hey, wait, maybe that is pretentious.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I take it back. XTC were pretentious. But in a fun, smart, goofy, nerdy, way. Which is why critics love them. Or did love them. I always knew people who loved them who didn't listen to TONS of punk/new wave/alt/indie. I think they brought an element of classic-rockness to new wave/post-punk that kinda comforted people in a way. People could listen to something kinda hip and still get their Beatles. Like Hitchcock. Which is fine.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, both Smashmouth and XTC sort of sound like the Cars or ? and the Mysterians but not nearly as good, I guess. Except Smashmouth sound fatter. Which is to their credit. And less ambitious. Which is not. XTC never sound big and ambitious to me. They sound THIN and ambitious. I wish they sounded bigger. Or at least fatter. Smashmouth are all thumbs; XTC are all pinkies in the air. Smashmouth could afford more pinkie in their music; XTC could afford more thumb.(Also, both bands recall plenty of other bands who Shakey Mo thinks they have nothing to do with. But he is so fucking wrong it's not funny.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus, several of their lyrics would seem to recall "Cups and Cakes" by Spinal Tap. Except Spinal Tap had a better sense of humor about it.

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I think all I have in the house are the 2 dukes of stratosphere albums. But that's cheating.

I think they could sound sorta fat. There is some stuff I remember from Mummer that is kinda big and fat.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

XTC are huge gnome-twee-treefolk-fairytale psych fans.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

see, i like twee. and even whimsy.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

??!!

2. Being eccentric--Are they as enjoyably and interestingly eccentric as either Kate Bush or Peter Gabriel?

Peter Gabriel = interestingly eccentric?

If by "interestingly eccentric" you mean "dull as dishwater," then perhaps I see what you're saying. On the other hand I'd be just as confused since Kate Bush is called the same thing in that statement.

I [heart] XTC, though I don't think there's much I could say that hasn't already been said on this thread.

martin m. (mushrush), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, it seems to me that, on Synchronicity and Ghost in the Machine, Sting was really doing the former at least as much as the latter. But of course there's no way to know anybody's intentions.

Right, IMO the Police achieved a very tricky balance of eclecticism and well-crafted pop songwriting on GitM, but from there the band (and later, Sting solo) got progressively middlebrow and "tasteful". Sting also got progressively more popular, at least for a while. XTC on the other hand, at about the same time, somewhere between Black Sea and English Settlement, got near the same balance, but ended up getting progressively less popular, emphasizing their idiosyncrasies and eventually settling into some kind of insular, baroque anglo-pop. Personally, I like latter day XTC, but there was a fork in the road circa 1981, and they took the path less traveled (and consequently, less followed).

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok dleone, but see, to me, it seems it's not so much that XTC chose their idiosyncrasies or the road less traveled as they picked the WRONG idiosycrasies and the WRONG road. Their earlier albums sound way MORE idiosyncratic than their later stuff, not less. Not to mention way less middlebrow (because way livelier, for one thing.) And I don't see how their earlier albums were more influential on the rest of music, if that's what you're suggesting; if anything, indie rock after '80s XTC (at least until the last couple years) emphasized prissy melody, not energetic rhythm. Prissy melody was the road MORE traveled. To me that's obvious. But again, my ears aren't yours...

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, "insular, baroque anglo-pop" (especially with obscure quasi-literary/look-how-clever-we-are lyrics) describes just about every band to come out of England for the past decade or more, not to mention Americans ranging from, say, Pavement to Flaming Lips to Polyphonic Fucking Spree. It's been the standard indie way of doing things for ages. And in that context, XTC strike me as *generic,* not special at all. And even in the early '80s, it's what every Brit from Squeeze to Elvis Costello on *Imperial Boredom* was doing, I thought..

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not suggesting any of their albums are that influential, really. And there are a lot of people (including fans and Virgin employees) who agree that they chose the wrong path. In this case, the "right" path would have been towards whatever sold more records. And I guess I define idiosynrasy differently than you; I see their ES and onwards output as drawing on their own personal peculiarities and tastes much more than their early records (which I also like). Partridge and Moulding seem like second rate pop stars at best to me, but perfectly suited to make music all day in their backyard shacks.

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

someone, long ago so wisely said:

all people with a soft spot for the Beatles and the Kinks type of music will migrate to XTC with little pain.

Many things can be said about XTC, but for me to simplify it as much as is humanly possible: well-written, hoppy-boppy, finger-snappin', sing-along, quality, tap-your-foot POP SONGS, which 99 times out of a 100 are written by British artists. XTC fall well in line with this. Tim, have you heard "Life Begins at The Hop"? If you tell me you can sit still to that, then you might as well forget about XTC altogether.

In another XTC thread, I said Skylarking is the best Beatles-influenced album that has ever or will ever be made. Period.

English Settlement was honestly THE most difficult XTC album for me. I bought it a long time ago, sold it, and only tried to get into it again years later after I'd already gotten into ALL their other albums, and I still found it difficult. It frankly pains me to think an XTC novice would be using it as a starting point.

Ned, thanks so very much for clearing up the 'dub experiments' confusion without me having to explain it. I came across that CD quite innocently while on my XTC fanatic phase and was totally floored by that CD. I do NOT think it sounds "dub" in the sense of "reggae", nor do I believe it was even meant to imply as such. I also think this CD ["Explode Together: The Dub Experiments 78-80"] should NOT even be thought of next to the rest of XTC's stuff. For me it was a totally different thing, nearly a different band, but as I said, my jaw dropped nonetheless. Anyone who likes obscure weird post-punk stuff like me should check this CD out regardless of what you might think of XTC. It's a whole different ballgame!

Bimble (bimble), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, sticking up for "Sacrifical Bonfire" - count me in.

arrgh ILMers sending me on a mini-XTC trip when I've got so much other new music to listen to...arrggghhh do you people never quit?

Bimble (bimble), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

> not to mention Americans ranging from, say, Pavement to Flaming Lips to Polyphonic Fucking Spree. It's been the standard indie way of doing things for ages<

Actually, Guided By Voices and Elephant 6 bands might be even better examples. {And honestly, I don't believe any of this music (including XTC) really sounds much like the Kinks --who I often love -- at all.}

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

FWIW, I don't see any connection between XTC and prog

or XTC and Peter Gabriel

or XTC and Kate Bush.

Though I love Gabriel and Bush in their own ways.

Bimble (bimble), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Partridge and Moulding seem like second rate pop stars at best to me, but perfectly suited to make music all day in their backyard shacks.

Damn, man. It's not like we're talking about Marshall Crenshaw. Did Fuzzy Warbles make you that bitter?

Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

XTC songs that are blatant Kinks homages:

Fruit Nut
the Affiliated (Dukes of Stratosphear)
Earn Enough For Us
Respectable Street
Love on a Farmboys Wages

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn, man. It's not like we're talking about Marshall Crenshaw. Did Fuzzy Warbles make you that bitter?

Dude, where do you think they recorded Apple Venus? ;)

dleone (dleone), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"Blatant homages" =/ "sound much like the Kinks"

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm just sayin. I know how much you like to argue semantics.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"Respectable Street" is super-Kinks

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck, here's your chance to list a bunch of bands you can insist "sound like" the Kinks. I'll get you started by suggesting Grand Funk Railroad, Kix, Big 'n' Rich, the Television Personalities, and Guns n Roses....

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

"respectable street" doesn't touch the kinks. though it shows a clear influence in the lyrical ideas and in the oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo backing vocal part. which is to say it sounds like a record made by a band that admired the kinks, nothing more, nothing less. i like "respectable street" quite a bit. i like the kinks quite a bit more.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

With regard to Marshall Crenshaw, I would say that I like "Some Day, Some Way" more than any XTC song that I have heard to date.

* still remaining open-minded! *

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't hear it (though I can see why somebody would say that about its song title) (though in my head it sounds more like the Jam, for some reason!) Is it supposed to sound like "Well Respected Man"?

xpost


The Kingsmen sounded like the Kinks sometimes. So did Slade. Even AC/DC. But I don't think anybody sounds like them very often. I think they're an easy crutch used by people who want to describe so-called "pop" bands who sound "British" and "vaguely '60s" and, um, "ornate." (So are the Beatles.) I've never heard an XTC song as pretty as "Waterloo Sunset." (I guess part of it is, it seems bizarre to me to act like the Kinks or Beatles sounded just ONE way.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

> not to mention Americans ranging from, say, Pavement to Flaming Lips to Polyphonic Fucking Spree. It's been the standard indie way of
doing things for ages<

Actually, Guided By Voices and Elephant 6 bands might be even better examples. {And honestly, I don't believe any of this music (including
XTC) really sounds much like the Kinks --who I often love -- at all.}

-- chuck (cedd...), June 28th, 2004.


Yeah, but a lot of these bands weren't very good at it. I think XTC were pretty good at it. That's the difference for me.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

There are lots of XTC songs that would sound a lot like Kinks songs if Ray Davies sang them! hahahaha! But it's true kinda.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

>it sounds like a record made by a band that admired the kinks, nothing more, nothing less. i like "respectable street" quite a bit. i like the kinks quite a bit more. <

xtc:kinks::whitesnake:led zeppelin, maybe

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

None of these auxiliary artists come anywhere near the consistency of Partridge's output. Can anyone think of a bad Partridge song? I can't, but I'm trying.

(I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and) Whittle Away My Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh god Partridge has let off some fart bombs. "All You Pretty Girls"?

I just realized that REM is totally XTC now in that no-drummer-lets-get-crazy-with-the-Sgt.-Pepper-bullshit way.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Are Modest Mouse big XTC fans? Don't ask me why I thought of that. Although their singer did sport Partridge's Amish farmer look for a while.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

plus hairlines and all

(x-post!)

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(though in my head it sounds more like the Jam, for some reason!)

well, they were two late '70s, early '80s bands who were very enamored of the kinks and wished they could be just like them. so it makes total sense that those two bands would end up having more in common with each other than either one had with the kinks.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

And at least Slade and (Bon era) AC/DC (and possibly the Jam, early on, though I never listen to them) kept plenty of the Kinks' hard rock in their music hall, which is more than you can say about just about any of the '80s/'90s art-pop bands who allegedly do the Kinks thing.

xpost

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I would love to hear ray davies sing some jam songs like "english rose" or "thick as thieves". don't ask me why.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, REM's current drummer is the hardest rocking drummer they have ever had. He wasn't in the band yet when they recorded the last album.

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

That was a ton of X-posts to Anthony, obv.

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

i like the jam quite a bit, but paul weller couldn't hold a candle to ray davies as a lyricist. paul weller was one of the clunkiest lyricists britain ever produced as far as i can tell. he sort of got away with it because the lyrics sort of matched his clunky cockney singing voice, but i think they might sound truly awful coming out of the mouth of a good singer like ray davies.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually kinda hated the Jam back in new wave days, to be honest. There were hundreds of journeymen new wave rock bands way more catchy in 1978 or 1979 (and Weller wasn't half the singer Noddy Holder or Bon Scott was, obviously, and their rock wasn't as hard and their Brit wasn't as music hall.) So if they were as half-assed as you say, that's a relief, really. I've just been giving them the benefit of the doubt today for, um, singing about tube stations or whatever.

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I like The Jam! I like their songs! Yeah, the lyrics were clunky. But I'm a Crass fan, so.......

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

best jam song of all time: "start," which is the one where they ripped off "taxman" pretty much note for note. in other words, the one where they went beyond pretend flattery to actual flattery. "tube station" was more of a pretend flattery kind of thing, though its heart was in the right place.

(and i repeat: i actually like the jam.)

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I just put on "In the City" and I'm surprised to hear how much he had the early Townshend guitar sound down. He had the Rickenbacher and Vox amp, obv, but he played the style well (well-er than some?), too--rhythm and lead.

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

He was a good singer, too!

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I could just never figure out how come the bomb was "in" waldour street instead of "on" it. (plus, sham 69 seemed a lot more fun.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 23:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I like their kinks cover too.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Oddly, though, I remember having a small soft spot at the time (c. 1982) for the otherwise probably terrible "Town Called Malice," probably for its Supremes "You Can't Hurry Love" bassline (that the Smiths stole a couple years later in "This Charming Man" I think.)

chuck, Monday, 28 June 2004 23:38 (twenty-one years ago)

For me, The Jam was a childhood fave. So my opinions on their music is colored by that.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The canned phil collins horns that Weller took with him to the style council could be hard on the ears. (on the later jam stuff)

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i got the Jam dvd and I was highly entertained by all the videos that i could never see cuz i lived in america. There are a lot of brit ILMers who hate the Jam. I'm wondering if this is partly cuz they were so popular in the U.K. and they got sick of wellermania.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"Town Called Malice" is fab-yoo-lous.

Tim Ellison, Monday, 28 June 2004 23:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck is correct, I think, to say that post-XTC Brit indie bands seemed to go for the pop at the expense of good rhythm, but XTC has something that many of these bands do not: incredible rhythmic integrity. How could you overlook that about them? The drum tracks on English Settlement (for instance, and since it began the thread) are unorthodox, driving, multilayered, very syncopated at times, and fun (yes even fun to dance to!). Partridge *always* plays with a keen feel for rhythm, even when the melodies are so up-front as to make rhythm easy to overlook. That's the thing: XTC are *so* melodic that people tend to overlook or ignore their amazing sense of rhythm. Maybe it's because even their rhythms are played melodically, if that makes any sense -- that is to say, their rhythms seemed as thorough-composed and well-thought-out as their melodies. That makes them unfunky I suppose, but it sure as hell doesn't mean they don't have rhythmic vitality.

Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

(I guess part of it is, it seems bizarre to me to act like the Kinks or Beatles sounded just ONE way.)

I think this same statement applies completely and thoroughly to XTC, too, and is one reason for their appeal.

Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Clarke B otm about XTC's sense of rhythm. I think Partridge was probably a drummer in another life (actually, I heard him play drums on the album he produced for Martin Newell, and he wasn't so unfunky!). Furthermore, Moulding is about as solid, in the pocket bassist as you'll find.

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks, D.

Less funky than ABC or Dead or Alive or A Flock of Seagulls or Frankie Goes to Hollywood or any of those guys, obviously.

XTC's is a different, more organic, more submerged, subverted funk -- the groups you mention use driving drum-machine four-to-the-floor rhythms, which yeah obviously are "danceable," but does that automatically make them funky? XTC make you feel the offbeats; how is that not funk?

Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I would think "Statue Of Liberty" is funkier than anything by those groups.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

two of whom have made albums I prefer to any XTC full-length

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

scratch that, no flock of seagulls album beats Black Sea (though a hits comp would)

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

and scratch that again, ABC could get their little sashay funk on

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, I was just about to ask if the first Flock of Seagulls album one of them.

Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

WAS one of them...

Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

oh man if the best half of each of the first two FoS albums were put together I'd demand everybody stop talking about XTC this very second.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

and we would all stop
and then sneak round the corner
and all laugh at YOU

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

anthony, there is a great FOS best-of.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

which I'd totally buy if I didn't already own the first three LPs.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Who would be with Anthony on his side of the street?

A Flock of Seagulls: A-
Listen: B+

Black Sea: B+
English Settlement: B+
Mummer: B-

Why, it's Robert Christgau!

Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

switch the grades for A Flock Of Seagulls and Black Sea for me though.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

however, the A Flock Of Seagulls/Listen amalgam would get a solid A.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

why bless my lil stars,
I'm just shocked as shocked can be!
mike score, ant, and bob!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey so Chuck: the difference between XTC's latter-day wide-eyed baroque-pop experiments and the wide-eyed baroque-pop experiments of yr average present-day indie band is that yr average present-day "we love Pet Sounds" "collective" is either totally faking it or at least getting a little bit of dress-up mileage out of the fact that they think they're doing something unusual; these are groups that load on the toy-instrument arrangements and make big arm-waving gestures at all their highly-composed key changes and and essentially make a big production out of it all. Whereas XTC, even when they genuinely are making a big theatrical dress-up production of it all ("Ballet for a Rainy Day" sounds like someone asked Patridge to score a puppet show or children's animation), never have that quality; better yet, all of their "sophisticated" songwriting and arrangement is genuine honest-to-God good songwriting and arrangement, not just an exercise in capturing the mood and trappings of lush/complex pop. Just as an example: you'd have a hard time picking any band out of the circle you just drew that actually does songs as through-composed as a lot of the latter-day XTC stuff -- at best you'll find people just cramming a whole bunch of different parts into one song and cheekily calling it a "symphony." More importantly, you probably won't find any who do things that actually read as straight-ahead pop songs but are as subtly weird as a lot of the XTC stuff is (see, once again, that first song on the first Apple Venus, which sounds like any old pop song but when it comes down to it has an almost Meridith-Monky element in the organization). The only baroque-indie-psych band I've ever heard to come anywhere close to the feel of something like Skylarking is maybe the Ladybug Transistor on The Albemarle Sound, and that's still a good way off.

Listen = A+

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I first bought Listen as a total joke in high school and wound up repeatedly spinning "Wishing." While crying.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe there's a thread where I note I would like to live inside the big keyboard overdub finale.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

...with a girl.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

/dork from heaters>

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

see, I was gonna say what Nabisco said but i didn't cuz I don't like to show off. Oh wait, its really just cuz I'm a little slow. But I did say something similar when I said that all those bands that Chuck mentioned were nowhere near as GOOD at it as XTC. And I was almost gonna write, but I didn't, that all those Elephant 6 bands and the like SHOULD have been studying XTC records instead of Pet Sounds cuz they might have learned something that they could actually use.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually I'd add to that whole thing that the "we love Pet sounds" indiedom stuff tends to shoot for childlike or even childish vibes, or even occasionally makes a big show of being saccharine, whereas XTC combined the lavish-musicianship with sounds and themes that were both pretty often very adult. The whole life-cycle conceit of Skylarking has a lot of the beginning sporting that cheeky child-wonder/nostalgia thing, but by the back end it's gone somber and serious and adult ("Dying," for God's sake people, "Dying"), and apart from the Dukes material that really did seem to be their dominant mood.

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, even their cheeky shit seems serious -- even "Sgt. Rock" sounds to me like a song for a 50-year-old man to sing.

nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

They just had more depth. A lot of those indie-kids were trying to make Pet Sounds right out of the gate and that's not a really good idea. (Then again I can't stand The Soft Bulletin so sometimes the with-age-brings-experience theory doesn't really fly either.)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

(and Robert Pollard never seemed that deep to me either. As far as music-making goes. So, maybe it's less depth and more talent.)

Moderator-don't let GBV and F.L. fans see these posts.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

XTC never really did concept albums. Skylarking is the obvious exception, and Oranges and Lemons is clearly a baby boy's introduction to the world, but ultimately each album's just a mash of songs.

The Ghost at Number Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

To sum up thread: They are good.

Sansai, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Teh best evar, in fact.

The Ghost at Number Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 05:11 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah what Nabisco said, took the words right of my mouth (it must have been while you were kissing me).

My favourite XTC moment is the first 4 songs from English Settlement. You'd be hard pressed to find an album which starts off with 4 better and more appropriately programmed songs.

mentalist (mentalist), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Terry Chambers's departure perhaps had a subconscious (?) origin in the band's near co-option by the early 80s Steve Lillywhite sound.

Although he recorded "Drums and Wires" perfectly nicely, you can hear Lillywhite's increasingly bad sonic habits (cf. "War", "Steeltown") coming to the fore on "Black Sea".

Although "English Settlement" documents the band's recovery from drums-far-too-loud syndrome, full recuperation (or abreaction) resulted in the genius Chambers losing his essential place within the XTC gestalt.

Which is a bit less gestalty than it used to be. Obviously.

Neil Willett (Neil Willett), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 05:59 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread could serve as a band obituary.

The Ghost at Number Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

seven months pass...
Heard Peter Gabriel's "Games Without Frontiers" on the radio today AND IT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE XTC.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 5 February 2005 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh Pshaw!

Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 5 February 2005 04:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I get the feeling that if I read this thread it its entirety (or at least since my one paltry post) that it's going to make me very mad indeed, so I am not going to.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 5 February 2005 05:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, really.

Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 5 February 2005 05:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"XTC non-fans watch sports.

XTC fans go shopping!

*lift hands in confusion*

Guys! What's up with THAT?"

= summary of this thread.

donut christ (donut), Saturday, 5 February 2005 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I once loved them; I still think "Drums and Wires" is pretty great, and I still love "Jason and the Argonauts." At the time, seemed like a good way out of prog-rock with their use of watered-down Captain Beefheart guitar moves, and Terry Chambers was a great drummer. But now, when I think about it (not often) it all seems like that typical prog-rock progression, from stuff that was complex, just complex and "heightened" enough (considering their sources, just like you'd say Yes derives from the Byrds) to stuff that was all dependent on overstatement, just like Yes on "Close to the Edge" and "Topographic Oceans." Just that XTC were "new wave" therefore "more grounded in reality and cool music like the Magic Band" than Yes. I find "Mummer" and "Big Express" quite annoying records; I like "Skylarking" but never listen to it. The "Wasp Star" records aren't bad. But viewed as pure how-they-play, they were pretty great, it's just for me that generally ain't enough no more.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 5 February 2005 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...
I've had drums and wires for a while and liked it okay. Then today I bought Skylarking on vinyl and was struck repeatedly on its inaugural spin that it could possibly be the most beautiful album I've ever heard. I want to play it again, but have to wait until tomorrow, and I fear it won't live up to the HYPE I've decided it deserves. I'm particularly digging the very subtly wrought tempo shifts and theme changes, which are often an about-face mid-song, yet don't necessarily disturb the flow or the mood of the song. Even the album as a whole seems to maintain some coherent mood (which I somehow associate with a cold summer day after rain) despite the restless invention that occurs. I can hear the beach boys, but it's as though they've been bottled and left to mature. To pursue that metaphor: I can't wait to pour shiraz in my ear tomorrow.

Anyways, it was one of those rare first listens that vindicates the time and money that is put towards finding and buying dozens (hundreds?) of lesser musiks in the hopes that there is something like this somewhere out there. Any suggestions as to where to turn next? I suppose more 80's xtc would be a good place to start, but other bands/albums?

Merci.

thrwice (The Giant Mechanical Ant), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 03:51 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...
Results 1 - 10 of about 23,100 for Mummer pastoral. (0.21 seconds)

I've been relistening to [i] Mummer[i] lately. It's the first XTC album I actively anticipated at the time, after falling in love with [i]EnglishSettlement, and I still love it, but why "pastoral?" Yeah, there's the rural setting of "Farmboy's Wages" and a few more acoustic guitars here and there, and "Wonderland" is a more conventionally pretty song than they've written previously, but are "Great Fire" or "Deliver Us From The Elements" really that different-sounding than anything on the previous two records?

Did the "pastoral" descriptor originate with some record company press release and get taken as gospel by writers 'round the world? Trouser Press Record Guide even says "music for picnics" -- which I find ludicrous applied to "Human Alchemy."

Dan Peterson, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

oo great fire--must listen to that right now

cutty, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

_Mummer_ was my least favorite album before _Wasp Star_ (which I feel is half-baked, "I'm The Man Who Murdered Love_ is particularly dire). But the demos found on the Fuzzy Warbles series, particularly of the two aforementioned "Great Fire" and "Human Alchemy" are revelatory. Too much production sheen has consistently been a problem for the lads since _Mummer_ and the demos are more fun to listen to.

Mr. Odd, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

they are my favorite band that is not al green or prince

strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

I guess that's another question: does "too much production sheen" not negate "pastoral?" Mummer wasn't exactly recorded in a barn direct to 2-track.

Dan Peterson, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

I would like to hear XTC covering Whitesnake's rock anthem "Here I Go Again."

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

3.2/10

strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

I wouldn't mark Coverdale's piteous pharynx quite that highly.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

dull.

strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:32 (nineteen years ago)

null.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

Since this thread is resurrected, there was a few comments circa 2004 about XTC being prog, which was pretty much dismissed, at least until the later albums.

I first heard them doing the 3D ep (pre first album) tracks on a kids TV show called Magpie right at the start and immediately thought of the non-intrumental tracks from the mid 70s King Crimson albums, compare the flurry of falling over themseleves notes in Dance Band with Crimosn's 'Great Deciever' as an example. Though they toned this down a wee bit with the Beatlesish pop of White Music, it was back by Go2 and Drums and Wires did even better by seamlessly adding it to the beatles ish pop. By which time King Crimson had reformed and were also adding that herky jerky sound to their 80s recordings. (to quote Craw above)

Incidentally on that Magpie slot, Barry Andrews had 'All human life is here' spray painted on his keyboards, but I thought for some reason he had written 'All human life is hole' and wrote that on the back of my jacket.

Sandy Blair, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

I bet getting XTC on Magpie was Tommy Boyd's doing.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 26 March 2007 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

What? and all these years I'd been crediting Susan Shranks, or the one that looked like Leo Sayer.

You can see the barry andrews keyboard writing at the end of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5mys1mhGJA

and this is maybe the Magpie recording (though they either also did Dance Band or its not):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIRKA6y9m7M

Lots of prog going on in those clips too, Crimson or VDGG prog anyway - though the songs are short and fast its still prog.

Sandy Blair, Monday, 26 March 2007 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

derail apology. it is stranks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep3rAfPvkrY

Id forgotten about Tony Bastable and his very smooth hair. was he the model for Frank Sidebottom.- wonder what happened to his career.

Sandy Blair, Monday, 26 March 2007 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

I was first exposed to XTC in 1984 through "Senses Working Overtime", which I loved as a cartoonish novelty pop tune. I liked it so much that I randomly bought Mummer, 'cuz it was the only XTC cassette at the mall shoppe. I found it extremely dark and oppressive. In its inaccesibility and alienated strangeness the opposite of what I loved about "Senses Working Overtime". I stuck with it, though, and listened to it over and over again on my Walkman (this was during my first exposure to "difficult music", and I was listening to a LOT of both Peter Gabriel and King Crimson at the same time, trying to figure out how this stuff could be so compelling and so unpleasant at the same time).

Eventually, I didn't hear Mummer as "wrong". I just heard it as pop. I felt that I'd accomplished something significant. This wonderful music had rewarded my patience and dedication with something that would never have been available to me if I hadn't been willing to work so hard for it, and the experience colored the way I approached music for years afterwards. From there, I worked backwards, first picking up The Big Express (much easier to relate to). Since I still hadn't found a copy of "English Settlement", I bought Waxworks and that sealed the deal on my eternal love for this band.

Anyway, I can totally see why some would compare the band to King Crimson, Gabriel, etc. -- the more abrasive and/or song-oriented fringes of 80s prog. I certainly saw the parallels at the time, though they make less sense to me now. And I can see why others would see them as a nothing more than a fistful of pop hooks strung together by English whimsy and/or way too much caffeine.

Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

Tim, did you ever get around to Drums and Wires? That's the XTC I like. It's basically smart new wave. It's a bit cute, but also a bit dark, and it's very energetic.

dan selzer, Monday, 26 March 2007 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

Agree about Drums & Wires, and the albums that preceded it. I bought Go 2, White Music and Drums & Wires in quick succession during the peak of my XTC crush. Loved 'em then and love 'em still. Smart, catchy, spastic new wave. So immediately accessible and seemingly effortless that when I finally got around to hearing English Settlement the following year, finally closing the loop on "Senses Working Overtime", I was put off by its labored obtuseness (outside the obvious hits, I mean).

If I wanna listen to XTC nowadays, I'm probably gonna reach for Drums & Wires or Skylarking.

Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

Absolutely: Drums & Wires was the first for me, then Skylarking.
The English Settlement is a bit difficult record; I like it but I can understand if someone finds it tiring.

zeus, Monday, 26 March 2007 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

I've been curious about The Big Express for years and have never been interested enough to buy it. I started a thread about it too.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 26 March 2007 18:42 (nineteen years ago)

The Big Express is fantastic. Almost alarmingly varied from song to song, and the production is extremly slick and rhythm-heavy. A lot of the songs have a disorienting edge of clangy paranoia that's unique in the XTC catalog. Wonderful melodies and syncopation though. Search "All of You Pretty Girls", "Seagulls Screaming Kiss Her, Kiss Her", "This World Over", "You're the Wish You Are I Had", "Reign of Blows", "Train Running Low on Soul Coal".

If you stripped away the dissonance and punchiness, you'd have something very similar to Skylarking.

Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

"All You Pretty Girls" made me nauseous. "Seagulls..." is psych-rock pedantry. But I love "This World Over" – it's all the best parts of a Police and Rush song combined.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

There you go then. Agree about the "This World Over" - very reminiscent of Ghost In the Machine era Police.

Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

But I'd still love to hear it.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:11 (nineteen years ago)

If I had a copy...

Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

I think Tim's comment about them not being "energetic" is funny...I've been reading a lot of press from back then and XTC was like THE group to reference if a band's music was angsty and frenetic.

dan selzer, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

Depends on the record/era. Early stuff is extremely buzzy and antic. Increasingly less so after Drums & Wires. By the time you get to Skylarking, "energetic" is probably the last word you'd use to describe their sound.

Pye Poudre, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

I saw their bit in Urgh! A Music War doing "Respectable Street" the other night on VH1C and they were awesome live, tons of energy and stage presence, with Andy doing all these theatrical gestures and facial expressions. I was a little shocked.

marmotwolof, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, watching XTC live videos on youtube has definitely made me appreciate them even more -- "All Along the Watchtower", in particular, is utterly brilliant insanity.

bernard snowy, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

gee, i always thought the reason i liked them was that they had catchy, memorable songs

latebloomer, Monday, 26 March 2007 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

yeah fuck it I'm putting on Fossil Fuel RIGHT NOW

marmotwolof, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:21 (nineteen years ago)

i could listen to black sea every day

strongohulkington, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:22 (nineteen years ago)

that's the strongest album for sure

cutty, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

i dont think ive ever been as confused as when i heard that song "the loving" off of the supposedly really recommended album "oranges and lemons".

"is this supposed to be..?"
"what is this?"
"whaaa?"
i dont get it

davedestroybox, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

Just for the record, Martin Newell, mentioned in the original thread, is basically sort of an XTC protege, with Andy Partridge producing his most famous albums.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:47 (nineteen years ago)

I've experienced more frustration trying to get into XTC then any other band I can remember. I have English Settlement and Skylarking, and I've given them both at least a dozen spins each in the past month, with little success. I wouldn't put so much work into it except that so many people here and elsewhere whose musical opinions I normally respect love them. I'm put off by the cheeseball factor of XTC, which is at times overwhelming and always seems to at least linger in the background. I can't get into Andy Partridge's voice. The way he growls "...and the Devil too" in Dear God. Listening to them gives me a faintly nauseous feeling that reminds me of when I was trying to undertand the appeal of Squeeze a few years ago. I don't mind the instrumental aspect of them too much (I particularly like the playing on Summers Cauldron), although in general it just seems bland.

I'm 23. Maybe this is one of those things where you had to be there. I know a few younger XTC fans, but in general it's my slightly older friends who were buying the releases the day they came out that always seem to sing their praises the loudest.

Z S, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

(Squeeze the band, not Squeeze the VU album, although getting into either seems equally difficult to me)

Z S, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 23:55 (nineteen years ago)

I will say that what I love most about XTC, what I continue to be inspired is not the performances, but the songs themselves. The chords, the melodies, the words -- the basic elements of the songs. I think those are the things that make XTC interesting, really unlike any other band.

Dominique, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 00:35 (nineteen years ago)

There's a reason "Dear God" wasn't supposed to be on Skylarking.

nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 02:05 (nineteen years ago)

the bass line in 'mayor of simpleton' is majestic!

calstars, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 02:13 (nineteen years ago)

Dominique OTM. It's about the tunes. If you don't get that, you're probably not going to get it. The point is that many of their songs are hummable, will stick in your head, etc. If you're not looking for music that does that, forget XTC.

Barring that, forget Skylarking and English Settlement and try the albums Black Sea or Drums & Wires. Folks who can't stomach the later stuff should at least catch a glimpse of the best of their earlier stuff.

Bimble, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 04:28 (nineteen years ago)

Alright, I'll give Drums & Wires a go. If that doesn't stick after half a dozen listens, I QUIT, wink wink.

I don't know, I certainly understand the songwriting over performance thing, and I feel like I definitely respect some artists who have the same schtick, namely Dylan and Cohen (although I enjoy their voices, actually), but I just don't feel the same way about XTC, at least not yet.

Z S, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 05:43 (nineteen years ago)

But Dylan and Cohen are very much about lyrics, while XTC (in spite of some very great lyrics) are mainly about melodies and harmonies.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 08:26 (nineteen years ago)

"There's a reason "Dear God" wasn't supposed to be on Skylarking.

nabisco on Wednesday, 28 March 2007 02:05 (7 hours ago)"

Don't agree. 'Dear God' is much better than 'Mermaid Smiled', which was clearly the only weak track on Skylarking

zeus, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

who sings at the beginning and end of Dear God? I often wondered.

I suppose XTC are a band composed of English eccentrics and if you like English eccentricity, then you'll like XTC. I remember Andy Partridge being interviewed around the time of Nonsuch and he said that "Americans like us coz they see us as three Robert Morleys"

Grandpont Genie, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:12 (nineteen years ago)

Jasmine Veillette

Mark G, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

who sings at the beginning and end of Dear God? I often wondered.

Judging from The Mojo Collection, Andy Partridge doesn't even know himself. He was apparently "just some American kid Todd Rundgren brought into the studio".

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

"Americans like us coz they see us as three Robert Morleys"

especially funny considering probably 90% of Americans have no idea who Robert Morley is (including me!). But I do have an inexplicable soft spot for English eccentricity, its true.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

sigh..

[Removed Illegal Link]

Mark G, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

http://chalkhills.org/reelbyreal/s_Dear.html

Mark G, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

just wondering, if I do this, does it work?

Mark G, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

Agree about "Dear God" not belonging on Skylarking. Bought that album and the accompanying E.P. when they first came out. I loved the album from front to back the first time I heard it. And I had a really hard time with "Dear God" (E.P. b-side). Don't get me wrong: I liked the song. It's almost overwhelmingly powerful and instantly unforgettable. But it's also cheesy and overstated and ham-fistedly obvious. Still, I was totally blown away and couln't for the life of me see how it had failed to make the final cut, especially given semi-filler like "Mermaid Smiled".

Then they went ahead and put in on the album after all, and I finally understood why they'd left it off in the first place. As a weird gift from the margins of the band's career, "Dear God" is tremendous. But as an album track that you have to listen to every time you play the record, it's too much. It doesn't belong there, and it throws the whole thing out of whack. It's a single, a song made to stand on its own.

Pye Poudre, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

thanks RSM!

Dominique, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

there are a LOT of people who only bought skylarking for dear god, so, you know, it made sense from that angle. it was a phenomenon at the time. radio played the hell out of that song. and the video was on mtv forever.

scott seward, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

I've always thought it was a song that seemed way cool when were young and rebellious but rather one-note and stupid now.

Skylarking didn'tn really take off sales-wise in the U.S. until early '87, right? It made the P&J poll for both '86 and '87.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

English Settlement was the first XTC album I ever bought (15 years old, new when it came out). I'm baffled by all the hate: it's my favorite XTC albums and one of my favorites from that era period. Really, "Senses Working Overtime" isn't getting the love?

mike a, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

Curious whether ZS upthread likes Of Montreal or not

mitya, Thursday, 29 March 2007 06:15 (nineteen years ago)

After driving around with the Mummer cassette on repeat in my car a couple weeks ago, I'm currently doing the same with Oranges and Lemons and thinking I dismissed it unfairly when it was first released. The whole first side ("Garden of Earthly Delights" through"Scarecrow People") is well-written, beautifully produced and INSIDIOUSLY catchy pop. I have had the hooks from every one of the songs rattling around in my head for a week. It trails off a bit for me on the second side, but overall I'm loving it enough to maybe re-buy the copy of Nonsuch I got rid of.

Dan Peterson, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

In fact, I love Of Montreal, especially their past couple of albums. That's why my inability to enjoy XTC is sort of baffling to me, and I keep trying and trying.

People keep referring to XTC's "English eccentricity", and maybe that's part of why I like Of Montreal and not XTC. That is, maybe I can relate more to Kevin Barnes' American eccentricity where I don't really "get" Andy Partridge's. That said, my least favorite Of Montreal moments are when Barnes' lets his cheesiness shine through ("I need a lover with SOOOOOUL Power!" on the latest album, for example). I don't like Of Montreal because of his American-ness, I like them because I like the songs/melodies themselves, similar to XTC's main selling points. The difference is, XTC's supposed mindblowing songwriting isn't really obvious to me.

Z S, Thursday, 29 March 2007 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, but didja try Drums & Wires yet? *goofy grin*

Well, I've finally given up my Fuzzy Warbles rebellion. As soon as I get some cash here I'm going to start digging in. I have heard from more than one person that they're spotty, so no one need warn me, but I guess it's just something I have to do, and the time seems right. Anyone want to give me a recommendation as to which one to start with or does it matter? Is there some kind of box set or something? Ah, I see there is...and look at this interesting Monstrance video on this link. Is that his new band or what? It's not like XTC at all, but interesting, as I say:

http://www.amazon.com/Fuzzy-Warbles-Collectors-Album-Partridge/dp/B000ICLTT6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7598448-1088122?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1175221226&sr=8-1

Bimble, Friday, 30 March 2007 02:27 (nineteen years ago)

"Dear God" makes great sense as a single, because it's essentially a novelty message song: once that sort of thing somehow breaks into radio, half the people who hear it are bound to be really impressed by the sheer seriousness of its having a point. But that's the same reason it doesn't have much replay value, once you've absorbed the idea -- beyond which it just doesn't fit with the tone of the album very well, I don't think. (I.e. Pye OTM, I guess.)

Although OMG screw you, "Mermaid Smiled" is not semi-filler! "Mermaid Smiled" is one of the bestest things on there! I am going to pretend that this is self-evident, and this song was the one swapped out for "Dear God" just based on life-cycle sequencing issues, not because anyone doesn't like it.

nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 02:49 (nineteen years ago)

not much Nonsuch love yet: there's some good stuff on there! Rook and My Bird Performs for example.

King for a Day is probably my least favourite XTC song - the only song by them that could seriously be described as bland.

Grandpont Genie, Friday, 30 March 2007 08:29 (nineteen years ago)

"Nonsuch" is their second best album ever. Only beaten by "Skylarking". An absolutely marvellous album!

Geir Hongro, Friday, 30 March 2007 08:48 (nineteen years ago)

Bimble: There is a fine "Fuzzy Warbles" thread on the sandbox.

Jump in point: Any except for number eight (starting to barrelscrape)

But it's all good. Spotty? ach what isn't?

Mark G, Friday, 30 March 2007 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, Nonsuch is a masterpiece as well. It was the third XTC album I've heard, but then it was a disappointment 'cause I was young and I would have liked new wave stompers like "Helicopter" or "Outside World". But in the last few years Nonsuch has grown on me, a truly great album.

Nabisco: I bought the original Skylarking first with 'Mermaid Smiled' and I don't know why, but that was the only track I liked to skip.

zeus, Friday, 30 March 2007 09:55 (nineteen years ago)

Nabs & Zeus:

I don't have any special dislike for "Mermaid Smiled". I just never loved it. Sounds mushy and undecided to me -- more vague genre pastiche than anything with real meat on its bones. I wouldn't have been any sadder to lose "That's Really Super, Supergirl" *, "Season Cycle", or "Big Day". But for thematic reasons, I can see why "Mermaid" went on the block first.

* Imagine a lot of folks would argue with me here. "Supergirl" always made my teeth hurt. Similar stuff on 25 O'Clock and Psonic Psunspot is much more successful (esp. "Vanishing Girl").

Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

I like "Supergirl," agree with you about "Season Cycle," and see what you mean about "Big Day," though I'm pretty fond of the r&b flourishes in that last. (Like the twangy backing on the "deafened by the bells" lines, which I think is pretty much the sort of thing that blew up into the aquarium Scritti sound on Oranges & Lemons.)

nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

the weird disparity of opinion on specific XTC songs is always interesting to me. for ex., stuff other posters find treacly or too slick or whatever may be another poster's favorite song on the album. A lot of stuff people have noted as their favorite tracks on Nonsuch or A&O are things I hate! (Rook? ew.) But it says something about their range as songwriters, being able to appeal to a strange variety of aesthetics.

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

Nonesuch was the first I owned, and I thought at the time that if this was XTC I wanted nothing to do with them. "Dear Madam Barnum" and ""Books are Burning" are cool, but you have to endure cranky, didactic piffle like "The Smartest Monkey" and "...Peter Pumpkinhead."

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

see I think "Books are Burning" is total "didactic piffle" (although yes so is "Smartest Monkeys" - I hate both songs). "Peter Pumpkinhead" is pretty good, but really stupid JFK video wtf.

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 30 March 2007 16:53 (nineteen years ago)

"That Wave", "Humble Daisy", "Omnibus" are some of my fave XTC songs

Dominique, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

Just listened to "Big Day". It's better than I'd remembered. Not a knockout, but the mood is gorgeous. Better than a lot of stuff on Oranges & Lemons, which I didn't like then and don't like now. Can see how the one anticipates the other, even though the Scritti (Politti?) reference goes right over my head.

Why is Nonesuch so much better than Oranges & Lemons, when they sound so similar? I ask 'cuz I suspect there's no real difference except that the songs on Nonesuch are simply more catchy, more immediately appealing to my ear. The difference is critic-proof: there's no non-music-theory-based way to explain it. You either hear it or you don't.

Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

"That Wave", "Humble Daisy", "Omnibus" are some of my fave XTC songs

I skip all those. Never understood the love for "That Wave", which just sounds so ugly and unformed to me... my favorite Nonesuch stuff is probably "Then She Appeared", "Ugly Underneath", "Holly Up On Poppy"

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

P.S. Agree about the crappiness of "Books are Burning", "Smartest Monkeys" -- hell, even "Peter Pumkinhead" annoys me. But "Humble Daisy", "The Disappointed" and "Omnibus" are great. Not a great record, but it's got moments.

Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

ooh the Dissapointed is good yeah

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

I certainly hear a difference in the production -- Nonsuch has a lot of "modern" touches, like added compression, generally louder overall, deeper bass, higher highs, etc. To my ears, the songs are a bit more straightforward, not always structurally, but with fewer bells and whistles added to the arrangements.

Also, Nonsuch for me represents the "new era" XTC; Partridge's voice sounds a bit different, maybe a bit thinner, but also going for those falsetto lines more.

Dominique, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

But Dylan and Cohen are very much about lyrics, while XTC (in spite of some very great lyrics) are mainly about melodies and harmonies.

I sometimes chafe at Geir's reductions, but this is kind of OTM, at least in terms of describing why I like XTC and why I don't have a whole lot of use for Dylan and Cohen.

jaymc, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

also greatness on Nonsuch is the very end of "Wrapped in Grey", with AP going up that high note

Dominique, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

Dominique OTM. Partridge's strained falsetto leaps on the choruses almost never work for me. They often seem to indicate a failure to come up with something compelling, going instead for a dramatic (and frequently awkward) progression/resolution.

Also agree about the "bells and whistles". O&L (and XTC's post-Skylarking output in general) suffers from this overcomplexified frilliness. Not so much in the production, but in the arrangements and the songs themselves. A Sting-like fondness for jazz/R&B strategies filtered through a fussy psych-prog sensibility that too often stands as a baffle between the tunes and their delivery.

Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:26 (nineteen years ago)

Hee. Last post, meet x-post.

Pye Poudre, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

but you have to endure cranky, didactic piffle like "The Smartest Monkey" and "...Peter Pumpkinhead."

Not too much of a problem considering both are among the definite highlights on the album.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 30 March 2007 22:04 (nineteen years ago)

'Nonsuch' always seemed more organic than 'Oranges and Lemons', the latter had a kind of dated sound, while 'Nonsuch' is timeless. I like almost every song there, but 'Books Are Burning' and 'Peter Pumpkinhead' are preachy and cliched a bit - 'Then She Appeared', 'Humble Daisy', 'That Wave' or 'Ugly Underneath' are my favourites perhaps.

zeus, Friday, 30 March 2007 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

I absolutely loved Oranges & Lemons when it came out but it does sound a bit dated today.

Nonsuch is a real mixed bag - the quality of the tracks varies considerably from nearly-unlistenable ("Bungalow") to excellent ("The Disappointed"). I would rank "Wrapped in Grey" up there with the best pop music of the 20th century though. Everything about it is brilliant.

It took me a long time to get into XTC, and I only kept at it because most of my friends were completely nuts about them. Finally, one day I was listening to "Skylarking", it all just clicked, and they became one of my favorite bands.

The Breadmaster, Saturday, 31 March 2007 00:04 (nineteen years ago)

I bought Nonsuch when it came out and remember being completely disappointed with it, to the point that I just sold it back and remember nothing at all about it now. But I also remember that my life was going through some major changes at the time and wonder if that might have prejudiced me at all. (I found the same kind of disappointment with another fave artist of mine's album that year, Robyn Hitchcock's Mossy Elixir)

Oranges & Lemons wasn't very good as an album either, but it did have some highlights. "King For A Day" being one of them and I will NOT tolerate any dissing of that song. We will have to step outside if you're going that route, heheh.

Thanks Mark G, I still think the best thing to do is get the big ass box set. (I usually spell it 'arse' but I feel like spelling it the US way in this case) I knew there was a thread about Fuzzy Warbles somewhere here...

Bimble, Saturday, 31 March 2007 01:45 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...

Finally!

I picked up Drums and Wires a few days ago, and I'm glad I made one more attempt with XTC. I don't know what happened in the 3 years between Drums and Wires and English Settlement, but if "Complicated Game" were to get into a schoolyard fight with a song like "Senses Working Overtime" (which I like, even), the latter would get bloodied and then have to watch his girlfriend make out with "Complicated Game".

Great song, great album. I also bought Black Sea, but I think I'm going to listen to Drums and Wires again first.

Z S, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 00:01 (eighteen years ago)

'Complicated Game' is one of my favourite XTC songs, and one of their most underrated, period. Does the quiet to loud thing better than just about anything else, has great lyrics, and sports some truly unhinged guitar work.

Just got offed, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 00:04 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9GIxfbfob0

cutty, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 00:20 (eighteen years ago)

the bonus tracks on the Black Sea CD are seriously incredible. "Smokeless Zone" sounds not just weird but utterly unique, unlike anything else I've ever heard, while remaining effortless and extremely fun; "Don't Lose Your Temper" has a guitar line that puts a smile on my face every time I hear it and is possibly better than anything on the album proper. especially after the rather dour "Travels in Nihilon", those tracks are like perfect little blobs of sunshine-flavored jello (wait, what the fuck?).

bernard snowy, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 00:56 (eighteen years ago)

Actually, the best thing about the song is Partridge's delivery of the final, climactic 'God asked me...' verse. It's perfect, and I don't think vocal echo/multi-track has ever worked more splendidly. Repeat after me: RightRaRightRaRightRaRightRaRightRightRight!

OMG bryson strikes! "Smokeless Zone" is my favourite track off Black Sea (with the possible exception, and here's where you LOSE, of "Travels In Nihilon")! You forgot "The Somnambulist", btw, which still scares the living crap outta me.

Just got offed, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 01:02 (eighteen years ago)

I wasn't counting "The Somnambulist" because I'm still not sure what to make out of it. it's sort of like those bonus tracks at the end of the notwist's Neon Golden, in that it's good, but so distinct in sound and mood from the rest of the album that it almost feels more like commentary than music.

bernard snowy, Tuesday, 17 July 2007 02:22 (eighteen years ago)

nine years pass...

an old friend asked on fb which album his friends had owned the most copies of (in various formats), and my answer was XTC's Oranges & Lemons. i hadn't listened to it in a long time, so i pulled it out and listened to it in the car today.

to explain the appeal of XTC the first time they appealed to me is pretty easy: i was 12, they were weirder than anything i had heard before, they sang about politics and how horrible people are, they welcomed me into the garden of earthly delight, funny songs about love and genitals, their songs were catchy and not all the same, they weren't scary, and nobody else i knew had any idea who they were.

i vividly remember seeing them perform on MTV, which is what made me want to buy the album the first time. now that it's 2017, i remembered that i can see if that performance is on youtube and it is! i also found my 8th grade yearbook last week at my parents' house and i think XTC saved me from developing into a boring conformist.

all that from this performance of "scarecrow people", the song i remember liking when i saw this, probably sitting at home by myself bored and watching mtv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI8MalyCCGU

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 21 April 2017 19:00 (nine years ago)

i calculated incorrectly -- i was 13 but the sentiment remains true

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 21 April 2017 19:03 (nine years ago)

They're radio promo tour for O & L boots are pretty dope. Fun banter and slick guitar inter-play ...

BlackIronPrison, Friday, 21 April 2017 19:08 (nine years ago)

Their - duh

BlackIronPrison, Friday, 21 April 2017 19:09 (nine years ago)

man, wish I had a cool story like that. mine is I heard "Generals and Majors" on internet radio and then had to play it 10 more times, and eventually wondered what their other music was like

frogbs, Friday, 21 April 2017 19:11 (nine years ago)

I honestly can't remember what my first exposure to them was. "Skylarking" was the first album I bought, but prior to that I was def familiar with Senses Working Overtime and a few other singles thanks to 91X airplay.

Οὖτις, Friday, 21 April 2017 19:13 (nine years ago)

For me, it was just a case of knowing their two most well known tracks well ('Making Plans For Nigel' and 'Senses Working Overtime') and then checking out the albums to see if the rest of the stuff was any good. It was.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Friday, 21 April 2017 19:15 (nine years ago)

my memory of seeing that performance always made me doubt my sanity -- did it even happen? did i dream it up? i'm glad to realize i wasn't imagining it. such a great album all the way through.

at the time i was into INXS, REM, etc (lol) but also had one Cure album -- as a littler kid I loved The Beatles and XTC was the most appealing combo of modern humor and topical subject matter + well-crafted Beatley songs. i also hated Reagan and nuclear bombs so the political songs resonated a lot. i feel fortunate to have had nothing better to do that evening than watch tv by myself.

eventually i found Skylarking at the library.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 21 April 2017 19:18 (nine years ago)

Was 15, had seen them on Urgh! and then noticed cheap cassette of English Settlement at rockheads in downtown St. Paul (the version without Africa, cockpit, leisure etc on it-- I still don't like those songs being there). Loved it right away. The year after, Skylarking came out and became the huge album of my circle of high school friends.

gimmesomehawnz (Jon not Jon), Friday, 21 April 2017 23:15 (nine years ago)

I doubt I'm the only one that discovered them this way, but They Might Be Giants have a song called "XTC vs Adam Ant" and I was at the age where I was just starting to learn about music not on the radio and would check out literally any band I heard about. Also got into Adam Ant that way, but he is not as much a fave

Vinnie, Saturday, 22 April 2017 01:15 (nine years ago)

about a year and a half ago a good friend of mine made a very passionate and long post on FB explaining why, "after 20 years of near constant music consumption," he'd concluded XTC was his favorite band ever, for all the reasons we know... i was in new york and about to go to Other Music so i picked up Mummer and The Big Express there. ended up being my last visit there before it closed.

the O&L radio tour is sweet. the way their guitars blend on Love on a Farmboy's Wages - oh man

https://youtu.be/cTtFTHI7Or0?t=20m13s

flappy bird, Saturday, 22 April 2017 01:16 (nine years ago)

I doubt I'm sure I'm the only one that discovered them this way, but it was on the 1982 WOMAD benefit double album Music and Rhythm, which had a bunch of artists who played the first WOMAD festival and which I bought for the unreleased Peter Gabriel, Pete Townshend and Jon Hassell tracks. It also had "It's Nearly Africa," which I completely flipped out over.

Bought English Settlement a few weeks later and flipped out 14 more times (see, 'cause there's a total of 15 tracks). By the time Mummer came out a year later, I had bought every album and most of the singles, EPs and side projects (with a big thank you to the late lamented Venus Records on 8th St. in NYC).

Hideous Lump, Saturday, 22 April 2017 05:38 (nine years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.