What's with the recent crop of critically lauded Canadian Indie Rock?

most of these bands suck though!

I'm a little fuzzy, but I recall the group of just-under-the-mainstream-radar bands 10 years ago consisted mostly of Moist, Our Lady Peace and I Mother Earth. Were there any good bands (I think Cowboy Junkies come to mind)?

Are you kidding me?

Compare that to the whole Constellation phenom earlier; Godspeed got the infamy so a select subset of people started to pay attention to the other bands on the label (and Alien8 too to a certain extent), but because it wasn't the type of baffling pop success that Broken Social Scene had, it didn't have quite the same impact. Now people are paying attention to Unicorns and Les Georges Leningrad and Arcade Fire and etc.

I think it's fun that a lot of these bands are from Montreal now, too. Has there ever been a time when there were so many critically-acclaimed anglo bands were from Montreal? I remember slight pockets where band like the Nils and Asexuals got attention, but never to quite this extent.

Wolf Parade don't suck.
-- Alba (albab...), November 26th, 2004.

Wolf Parade in the wrong business, apparently!

Erm, Sloan, Eric's Trip, Elevator to Hell, Jale, Hardship Post, Treble Charger, Hayden + a bunch of smaller names including the whole Sonic Unyon scene that was big around 1995-6.

Our Lady Mother Moist were big but no one really thought of them as "indie." They were "get hammered at the university pub" bands.

Overall though, I think more interesting question is why all the attention to very white, self-consciously retrograde guitar pop when there is so much else going on in Canada that's new and different? This recent indie rock craze reeks of "Brit-pop."

yes I realize they're a different breed, but just had to get that off my chest.

in a good way - it's a little mistrustful of dominant modes of thinking & razzle-dazzle; likes eccentricity and, well, for lack of a better word - independence (or at least the appearance of independence)

and in a bad way in that it's a little defeatist & insular and stuck in the mud; willing to accept & even celebrate mediocrity as long as it conforms to the rules... and most of all - a willingness to disown &/or backstab anything that gets too big or popular - a real suspicion of any sort of success

or is the USA "rock" & the UK "pop"?

This is something you hear a lot about Canadian culture but I don't think it holds up. Shania, Celine, Bryan, Neil, Joni etc are still loved as "Canadian" even when they don't live here, or even take up US citizenship. However, it seems lots of Canadian artist seem happy to be big at home. Stompin' Tom is a hero to many precisely because he made that his policy. Course, he's pretty punk overall. I loved the fact he gave up recording as a protest against the music industry failing to support Canadian artists. And he kept it up for like 18 years or something! His new album blows by the way.

OTM re. nomeansno. I regard nomeansno and the Rheostatics are the cool old fuckers of the Canadian underground.

Can someone try to explain why The Tragically Hip are so huge in Canada? I mean, they are bigger than just about anyone you could care to name. Grannies love them, mailmen whistle their tunes, the Prime Minister has to pretend to like them. That Gordie bloke is like Bono and Michael Stipe rolled into one for millions of Canucks. I'm mystified.

These days though, you may have a point.

(xpost)

An attempt by someone who's never owned a Hip album: When they came out (late 80s), they had sort of a retro-but-not-too-retro 60s hard guitar rock sound and look at a time when that was very distinctive from what was mainstream at the time. They're not mindblowing instrumentally but they can sustain a strong driving sound and the guitarists come up with solid memorable riffs. The guy has a distinctive voice (I don't have any great love for it but that strained bleating does manage to sound impassioned, sensitive, and clear at the same time and not in cliched ways) and stage presence. His lyrics are quite unique in their fixations with Canadian historical trivia (and not in a terribly sentimentalized nationalistic way) and goofy stream-of-consciousness nonsense. They've kept at it for a good 15 years, putting out a steady stream of stuff at the same level of quality. None of which means I'm rushing to buy their albums but I enjoy a lot of their songs on the radio and understand their success. (Sometimes I find it harder to understand why REM became so 'important' even though I did have all their albums up to 1996 or so.)

I think we should thank the CanCon regulations to some extent for the broad musical renaissance in Canada. I know they can be a pain in the ass for broadcasters etc and I've heard all the arguments against them but musicians are at least guaranteed a platform. On the other hand, hearing the Poppy Family for the 9,000th time on the oldies station just makes me wanna smash the radio.

for americans, wilco & uncle tupelo were pretty canadian... along with the jayhawks & a lot of that "americana"

and relatively similar craftsmanly country-rock rootsy singer-songwriter stuff was pretty much the dominant "alternative" thing in canada pre-sloan (eg blue rodao, hip, grapes of wrath, 54/40, crash vegas, etc) stemming (i think) from a bigtime Neil Young/The Band influence hanging in the air... which is all still present but maybe a little less shameless in stuff like the constantines (who have a Neil cover band in their spare time) & andre ethier's solo record, sadies stuff

and the poppy family were great.

xpost

Perhaps being less fashion driven, Canadian artists are free to pursue different genres and styles. For me, what's really great about living in Vancouver or Toronto is that there are all these little scenes going on all the time, like the country thing, ska bands, goth bands, brit-pop type bands, reggae, tons of hip-hop, house and techno acts, semi-novelty acts (July 4th Toilet/Hanson Bros/Canned Hamm/Smugglers). Nothing really goes out of style. The scenes support themselves and each other. It's eclectic, creative, healthy and produces good stuff in tons of genres.

Even though it's been amply covered by now, I'm still dumbfounded by this statement. When I moved here in 1994 and over the next 2 years or so there was so much press, etc. aboot all the Canadian bands on Sub Pop, all the East Coast bands on labels like Murder and Cinnamon Toast, labels like Derivative and Sonic Unyon popping up and small bands either getting played or performing on The Wedge. Moist and Our Lady Peace hardly fit into this equation. (I was also going to mention that 10 years ago Sloan released Twice Removed, which by 1996 had become "The Best Canadian album ever!" so there's a second Sloan reference)

Knocking the Poppy Family is wrong, too.

i love how so many canadian artists have this complete sour grapes attitude toward US success and this total distain for the music industry not supporting them. um, they've got fucking CanCon (ie. guaranteed 30% radio content of canadian artists), arts and touring grants up the ass, and still can't make a go of it? maybe they just suck shit? perhaps Buck 65 isn't the absolute best example, but of the actual artists in canada making good and interesting music, he's one that never relied on CanCon or some label to do the work for him. instead he worked his ass off, made contacts with good labels (ie. anticon), moved to Paris and actually developed himself as an artist, performer and songwriter, and lo and behold is having a great deal of success in the US. who else is having decent success in the US? Destroyer (on Merge) Arcade Fire (on Merge) Weakerthan (Epitaph/Anti) New Pornos (Matador). so wait, maybe my argument is being thrown out the window with these US labels... maybe it's the canadian labels that suck? i dunno.... this is kinda going nowhere now, but i just never understood why so many canadian artists blame all their ills on everyone else.

35%.

The NP are actually a bad example, as Matador didn't release the first album in the US until it had been out for a couple of years as a Canadian export (and being on a Canadian label with no US distribution didn't hurt Buck 65's last album with regards to getting attention).

also blaming failure on other people is universal, not canadian

xpost

Very true.

Fritz, I hope you are not forgetting the Strange Brew soundtrack album, which features Bob, Doug AND Rush.

There's also the theory that Canada is some sort of goldmine for female talent - ie. Murray-Joni-Celine-Alanis-Shania-Nelly-Avril... er... Rita McNeil...

Indiewise, government grants (when they're not being misdirected) help. CanCon regulations are a mild joke - they help Our Lady Peace far more than they'll ever benefit Broken Social Scene. Though we're just self-conscious enough that we probably invent our own, non-legislated rules.

Otherwise these little theories are cute and help us get through another bleak day round the igloo, but I dunno if there's much to them. We are a self-centred people of low self esteem. Suppose that helps. And maybe we're more open. But then again we never want to talk about race round here (maybe that's why we have so little hip-hop scene to speak of... the illusion of harmony, etc.)

P.S. Hey Fritz, that was a great theory. Can I use it for my next column?

Well, probably because Rush isn't on there. It's actually Ian Thomas, Dave's brother, who does the music on that thing. Rush doesn't appear as far as I can tell.

Whoa, Kon Kan! Haven't heard them in yonks!

i would say that i don't see much "willing to accept & even celebrate mediocrity" in the bss/hidden cameras/arcade fire/constantines/etc phenomenon. quite the opposite actually. canada's never been good at producing the cocky rock star and maybe the current indie crop can be a little self-deprecating, but they've got ambition up the ying-yang, me thinks. they just dunno what to do with it (world domination has never been considered an option).

canada certainly has an indieness to it though. but generally i just think we're confused.

i'd also argue, probably clumsily, that there's something of a european influence in the tiny, self-supporting communities that have sprung up, but that's just a guess...

but more pertinently, why no mention of les georges leningrad yet? i tend to at least critically laud them myself.

I don't get it. So just because the US and Canada are similar culturally, then we should have more of an "in" when it comes to breaking bands in their country? I don't think that's true. If it was, maybe hockey would be more popular there :)

There would be a larger fear, because of these exact cultural similarities, of American music being so popular up here that it overran our own music scene. But that's not quite true either (at least partly due to ConCan).

Anyhow, I'm probably rambling, so consider this:

WOT, NO:
Northern Pikes??
Industrial Artz??
Jamez Bee??

Isn't it more of a language issue? French or German bands for example don't expect to conquer the US while singing in their native language. But do Canadians feel a little left out when the UK and US dominate popular English language music? There is also the factor of Canadian artists who move south and become fully embraced by the US culture (i.e. say Neil Young or the Band) which is not as common of a problem for a place like Australia for example.

And I'm not certain that language plays a central role ... don't the French resent Quebecers? Celine Dion broke through in France, but I believe this was a rare exception? Germans don't particularly care for Austrian music ... the Swiss Germans just want to be left alone ... but maybe Europe is different though. For better or worse, nationalist roots run deep within European nations. Many Canadians might feel as though we, along with the US and the UK and our intertwined histories, should all be the best of buds. It's a colonial mentality, I think. We want the attention from our big bros, and when we don't get it, we fell left out. This is why some get jealous when they see Bush and Blair snuggling each other and cringe at the words "staunch ally" -- hey, I thought you guys were supposed to be best friends with us! But in Europe, people are more likely to feel proud of their own culture while having very little concern about what other countries think of it. And I think we could use a bit more of that attitude -- just be proud of what you've got going for you (culturally) at home, and not worry so much about what other nations think.

Ha ha! In yr face, Robin Black!

I'm a little fuzzy, but I recall the group of just-under-the-mainstream-radar bands 10 years ago consisted mostly of Moist, Our Lady Peace and I Mother Earth. Were there any good bands (I think Cowboy Junkies come to mind)?

WTF? 10 years ago things couldn't have been better. 8 years ago things went to hell in a hand basket. We didn't need ten millions record labels, we had Cargo distributing EVERYTHING it seemed like. Their catalogue in Canada was about the size of Toronto's phone book for chrissakes.
10 years ago Sonic Unyon were doing great, Sloan and their cottage industry were kicking ass, Eric's Trip were happily on Subpop, Thrush Hermit were doing well, Jale were moderately successful, Hardship Post were still together, Change of Heart were still together. A few short years later Cargo went belly up and things started again from the ground up. Murder Records faded, Sloan moved to the big smoke for better or worse, Julie and Rick were doing well in their own projects, Stinkin' Rich became Buck65 at some point but few people noticed outside Halifax, GeekSkull or whatever Phil/Mark's zine was becoming TeenageUSA, Network finally stopped fucking people over left right and centre to focus on Sarah, Weakerthan's would be starting up and the wonderful Endearing was forming if I'm not mistaken.
But those years the cool styles seemed to be ska and swing, which thankfully we more or less stayed clear of (except exBlackpool (Chris Murhphy's preSloan band) guitarist which formed Johnny Favorite's Swing Orchestra, remember them?)

As for alt.country, I'm obliged to also mention Jr Gone Wild, SOTW and Handsome Ned.

Hurrah for more Canadians though. Some must be new if they missed the earlier love in for Con-Can.

You play 30% (and later35%) and it seeps into your music though. I should go see if I can get the CKDU live feed these days. I used to jealous of that station, mind you, we were nicer, till the hippies came.

They're the Canadian Wilco.

The Canadian Status Quo might be closer. I'm just glad that even The (Low I)Q stations seems to have given them a rest.

God, Im going to have to rewrite my list of 90s albums from Canada that didn't even get nominate for that other list.

AND this little nugget from Sloannet archives:
Halifax On Music lineup in 94.
Wed 28th - Spinanes, jale, Al Tuck & No Action, Rebecca West
Thu 29th - Stereolab, Mary Lou Lord, Change of Heart, Zumpano,
Blonde Redhead, Merge, Strawberry
Fri 30th - Sunny Day Real Estate, Thrush Hermit, Horseshoes & Handgrenades,
Treble Charger, Hardship Post, Monoxides
Sat 1st - Scarce, Hardship Post, Local Rabbits, Liz Band, Thrush Hermit
Tristan Psionic, Six Finger Satellite, Pest, Coyote, Plum Tree
Sun 2nd - Meat Puppets, Eric's Trip, Hip Club Groove & Stinkin' Rich,
Trike, Suddens, Mona, Hedge

PS: FEMCON

I would be very surprissed if the CRTC had anything to do with that. They rarely do anything without a year or two of consultation before hand. The NCRA on the otherhand gets hijacked by the overly idealistic from time to time and would be more likely to make this a mandate for their members. Though I thought CITR were one of the saner stations with some influence amoungst that little tea party.

I've since seen Jim Guthrie solo a couple of times and they were pleasant, if forgettable experiences.

IMHO, the best Toronto-based act is Polmo Polpo, by far.

Noodles -- nice review of the mid-90's indie scene ... American *and* Canadian indie rock pretty much passed me by during most of the 90's, but all of the bands you named were certainly great (except Change of Heart, I could never understand the adulation toward them).

come on guys!!!

Royal City have improved greatly as a live act. Though I'm still not sure I'd recomend them. Bad Luck is indeed an amazing song. And they are a great band to take pictures of. They seem twice as exciting on film, even when I accidently overexpose cause I'm an idiot.

SLOOOOOOOOOAN - Twice Removed. HOW IN LIVING HELL WAS THIS NOT NOMINATED FOR top 100 of the 90s??? Due I have to do all the Sloan fandom around here? more importantly they weren't remoured to break up at this point. And they release the bestest single around this time (Same Old Flame)

Forever Again came out in Sept '94, the other 2 ET releases you mentioned were 1993. That Sloan single came out in 1996, and when I saw them in Feb 1995 they had been rumoured to be breaking up for a couple of months by then, but otherwise yr timeline is pretty on.

actually, rusty had a few good songs. "Wake Me" and some other for which I think Bruce LaBruce directed the video. shot in Santa monica, methinks... or West Hollywood. can't recall the name of the track tho.. damn!

They were revered because they rocked like hell! Also everyone should now go out and get Blurton's new album (under the new band name C'mon), Midnight Is the Answer.

-- Apparently now known as (o )( o) ([email protected]), November 27th, 2004.

indeed, it was "Misogyny". thank you.

Zac, as I've told you before, any fool knows that it's goat jizz, not goat piss (thanks go to my brother for that one.)

A: Broken Social Scene, Hidden Cameras, Dears, Death From Above 1979, Stills, Stars, Deadly Snakes, Unicorns, Arcade Fire and so on & so forth... is there a common thread? why now?

A: What's with the recent crop of critically lauded Canadian Indie Rock?

2xpost

And your statement is absurd, btw.

Ha ha! Nice one, rewind (perfect name by the way). Thanks for proving my point.

xpost

Y'know what's weird?
As far as guitar rock goes, the only stuff I listen to pretty much is Canadian. Maybe I get enough of that through CanCon that I don't need to look for it in the world and can concentrate on other things. That's flipping odd, huh?

The best thing about the C'mon album is that if you buy the vinyl, which is on bright orange vinyl, you also get the CD included as a bonus!

Caught them live a few years ago. If its the same band (from Montreal right? Female bassist or was it guitar trades singing with a guy) I'm thinking of there was hope for them, mostly the male singer needed to improve.

I would really like to enjoy Ian Blurton's new stuff but I can't sit through it. Live or on CD it's really a shame. Then again you haven't heard a peep from me about the new Rheos.

Mr. Noodles, do you hate teh goodness?

Answering myself here but yup, that was the band. They were playing with King Cob Steelie, Two Minute Miracles, NQ Arbuckle and The Sadies.

Overall, I guess I'm a little miffed about the idea that Canada is musically indie-inclined. Obviously there are good things going on in Montreal, Toronto & Vancouver, but its only the indie scene that has caught on, not more of a general mainstream desire for indie music. Mainstream radio - even in the big 3 cities - and Muchmusic seem to be led by grunge rock worshippers and unoffensive top 40 pushers.

I saw controller.controller (learn to spell it properly, people! :)) open for Tangiers once and was minimally impressed. Dance-punk/funk/Hot Hot Heat/whatever-the-kids-call-it-these-days has never been my thing, though. Tangiers rocked ass, I'm happy to say.

Spelling schmelling, are you engineer or do you care about the truth like a physicist?!?

I don't know about the hot hot heat, I just kept hearing New Order.

I like New Order.

www.mcrorie.ca

Why isn't there a Pink Mountaintops thread?! I just started a new thread the other day, so I don't want to go crazy on starting new threads.

But the new Pink Mountaintops album is pretty good.

In terms of indie stuff, the best band in Vancouver FYI is Thee Ahs. Actually they have been brilliant for a long time so it's kind of a relief to me that lots of people (locally at least) are finally starting to get it. They just brought out I think their third album which I think is quite brilliant - 9 very dark guitar-pop songs all seemingly connected lyrically. They are fronted by a young woman with a wonderfully rich, soaring voice; backing vocals by another gal, the songwriter, who has a very cool new wave voice and is a great guitarist. They're both around 21. Seen them a bunch of times over the last 3 years or so but their last gigs here have felt like big celebrations - like everyone realises they are destined for bigger things (they are touring the UK over the summer, playing Indietracks and that kind of thing.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdMjdUpAA2o

Thee Ahs are incredible! The (current) album is beautiful, reminds me of Mamas & Papas in all the harmonies, and its full bittersweet amazing songs. Not a duff one at all. Can't wait to see them in the UK, gotta wait a fortnight till Indietracks and then seeing them again a couple of days later.

Great! I would love to hear a report from Indietracks or any of the other gigs. Been tagging along with them for so long now that it's hard to believe they are actually on tour overseas! Each album has built on the previous - the second one, Future Without Her is about as good as the latest but not quite as polished. One of the best things about them is that they are always pushing forward, trying new approaches and writing new stuff. The last couple of times I saw them here they had a bunch of new songs and announced they were recording a new album when they get back from the UK.