What's up with The Fall re-issues?

In terms of these particular issues, the Fall page:

http://www.visi.com/fall/

...is always best starting point. The discography page will explain the difference between the various issues.

xpost with Scott!

*whistles*

"Remastered for 8-track tape"

I might wait. If there's a key thing to note right now, Poortheatre, it's that the Sanctuary/Castle company is finishing up what might as well be the definitive reissues of the earliest days through Perverted by Language, which should be coming out in four months.

cruiser's creek makes me sad too. and tempo house. brix makes me sad. "Edie"! man, i can't even play that thing. I can't afford therapy! ya think i'm made of money!?

Wow, Scott. I thought I was the only one on substances here. I feel much betterer. I want to raise a big fat fucking mug of beer to Tempo House, ya'll!

But REMEMBER

We are responsible adults.

Not as such. Most of its tracks have surfaced as bonuses on the recent string of reissues and there's a two disc distillation that covers much of the same ground.

Here are the topical pages if anyone is interested:

History of re-issues: http://www.visi.com/fall/discog/albums.html

Recent re-issues: http://www.visi.com/fall/discog/recent-and-future.html

---

ROOM TO LIVE

1. Joker Hysterical Face (4.48)
2. Marquis Cha-Cha (4.31)
3. Hard Life In Country (6.12)
4. Room To Live (4.14)
5. Detective Instinct (5.42)
6. Solicitor In Studio (5.21)
7. Papal Visit (5.33)

BONUS TRACKS:
8. Joker Hysterical Face (4.47)
9. Town Called Crappy / Solicitor In Studio (6:30)
10. Hard Life In Country (8:32)
11. Detective Instinct (7:12)
12. Room To Live (4:32)
13. Words Of Expectation (9:13)

Track 8 from Derby Hall, Bury 27th April 1982
Track 9 from Hammersmith Palais, London 25 March 1982
Track 10 from Victoria University, Wellington, New Zealand 19 August 1982
Track 11 from Lesser Free Trade Hall, Manchester 22 December 1982
Track 12 from Arena, Rotterdam, The Netherlands 12 February 1983
Track 13 from Larry's Hideaway, Toronto, Canada 21 April 1983

---

PERVERTED BY LANGUAGE

CD1:
Original mix of album:
1. Eat Y'self Fitter (6.35)
2. Neighbourhood Of Infinity (2.40)
3. Garden (8.41)
4. Hotel Bloedel (3.45)
5. Smile (5.07)
6. I Feel Voxish (4.19)
7. Tempo House (8.51)
8. Hexen Definitive/Strife Knot (6.55)

BONUS TRACKS:
Rough Trade 7" single RT133:
9. The Man Whose Head Expanded (4.19)
10. Ludd Gang (2.31)
Rough Trade 7" single RT143:
11. Kicker Conspiracy (4.18)
12. Wings (4.25)
Outtake:
13. Pilsner Trail (4.49)

CD2:
John Peel Session #6:
1. Smile (5.11)
2. Garden (10.00)
3. Hexen Definitive/Strife Knot (9.07)
4. Eat Y'self Fitter (7.01)
Remixed track from 1998 CD reissue:
5. Garden (8.42)
Live:
6. Neighborhood Of Infinity (3.07)
7. Smile (5.39)
8. Tempo House (7.17)
9. Perverted By Language (1.34)
10. Wings (3.35)
11. Backdrop (11.11)

Track 6 recorded at Alabamahalle, Munich, Germany 4 April 1984
Track 7 recorded at White Columns, New York 4 May 1983
Track 8 recorded at White Columns, New York 4 May 1983
Track 9 recorded at Electric Ballroom, London 8 December 1983
Track 10 recorded at Hammersmith Palais, London 25 March 1982
Track 11 recorded at Concorde, Brighton 27 October 1983

CD2 track 6 from Palace Of Swords Reversed
CD2 tracks 7&8 from Speed Trials LP (Homestead Records US)

---

Meanwhile, another Fall board post from one of the admins says this:

Beggars Banquet have today confirmed that, subject to Mark's agreement, they very much want to pursue, in the first instance, remasters of :

- The Wonderful and Frightening World of The Fall
- This Nation's Saving Grace
- Bend Sinister

By all accounts there was a very enthusiastic response to the suggestion at a recent Beggars Banquet management meeting.

It's too early at this stage to say precisely what the tracklisting will be for the albums, but we are talking double CDs for each, as requested by fans. The suggestions made by folks here are all being seriously considered and the first draft for WAFW is now pretty much done and dusted.

The plan is to release all three (WAFW, TNSG and Bend Sinister) together, as retailers seem to respond well to this, plus it saves on advertising costs which is always a bonus.

It's not possible to look beyond Bend Sinister at present, so please don't ask at this stage. Clearly if the first three sell well, then it ain't ruled out, but neither is it ruled in. So please hang back on suggestions on these (Frenz Experiment, I Am Kurious Oranj and Seminal Live) for the time being.

It's also not possible to confirm final tracklistings until such a time as Mark agrees to the listings, so please don't ask. Rest assured, the plan is to include some quality extras, which include some of those suggested, on the CDs alongside the contemporaneous singles.

Once there's more news I'll keep you posted

---

And on top of *that* Sanctuary is still on track to do In a Hole (I'm still wondering what more they can add to the Voiceprint reissue, though) followed by Infotainment and Middle Class Revolt, then possibly more.

Meanwhile, the live Vault series is now on track, initial releases according to the official website being: Oldham 1978, Retford 1979, Los Angeles 1979, Glasgow 1981 & Hof [Germany] 1981. Hof is a double CD, the others are all single disc.

Mark has asked us to publish the letter below sent by himself on May 10, 2005 to Rob Ayling, head of Voiceprint Records, regarding the legality of the Live From The Vaults series.

http://www.visi.com/fall/news/pics/05jun16_mesletter100505.jpg

Rob Ayling responds:

Just thought I would up date you and the rest of the loyal Fall fans the world over . .

Further to Mr Smiths letter to me 10th May 2005, where he closes his letter with the line "i will not cash that cheque until ready"

I can now confirm Mr Smith has in fact cashed "that cheque".

It is now all systems go on . . . . . The Vault Series . . . . . I hope you like them !

So there's what's known. The latest on the thread on the message board seems to raise further doubts, though.

The very first one, sans bonus tracks, didn't.

The first CD reissue with the bonus tracks did.

The now DELUXE EDITION of Grotesque (with even more bonus tracks).. I don't know! I'm still trying to get through the other issues? But I doubt it, given how very well done the Live At The Witch Trials and Dragnet Deluxe issues were.

Spurred on by the enthusiasm of new boy Clayts and an announcement by MES that he is definitely on board with communicating with us more than ever before, there are lots of projects afoot...

Fall gigs available for download for a nominal fee. Clayts will be in charge of this area and has a vast number of gigs at his disposal. He's thinking of offering mp3 gigs for around £2 and hopefully uncompressed wav/flac gigs for £3 (it's very easy to convert a flac to a wav and burn an audio CD). There will probably be the availability of pre-burned CDRs for those without a fast connection and/or CD burning capabilities. All proceeds will go to hosting the files on an external server and any monies left over go to the Fall. Much discussion over on the Fall Forum, and Stranger has a thread/poll about which gigs should be made available.

Official Fall t-shirts for purchase through the site, with all proceeds going to the Fall. Voice your opinion on what designs you'd like here.

We're fine tuning some new design ideas about the site, including a cross-site navigation system that'll appear at the top of every page. This will make it much easier for people to jump around from area to area. I don't think the Fall News will change too much, at least not in the near future, apart from a vast improvement to the ever-increasing Fall News archives. Although I've decided to adopt Clayts's excellent idea of adding a little added 27 June note to each heading, and they've badgered me into adopting the UK's day/month/year format.

The Shitty Reissues: the ones from Cog Sinister circa 1999-2001 or so that were cheaply mastered from bad vinyl at worst, mastered decently from used vinyl at best.

The Decent Reissues: the ones redone circa 2002 that fixed the horrible precedent that the Shitty Reissues almost set... this includes Room To Live and In A Hole.

The Deluxe Reissues: the ones that add all sorts of bonus tracks, have great liner notes, comes in a paper covering over the case, usually is good for completing things that fell in the cracks before.

...

So, it's easy to get confused.. Slates and A Part Of America Therein will probably never get Deluxe reissues as they are just a 10" and a live album respectively, so some things will never get past Decent reissues, which is fine. I just get confused when a Deluxe reissue is upgrading a Decent reissue, etc.

These are Expanded Editions, but not Deluxes... I guess it's just a matter of semantics at this point. But see, the only way you could find Slates or A Part Of America Therein on CD before was on that DOJ two-fer. Maybe they're best put in the "Deluxe" camp.. shrug.

To make things more confusing, there were these makeshift U.S. CD issues of Dragnet and Early Fall 77 to 79 that were decent but added no new tracks.. so those might be filed under Decent, and I think Dragent was an IRS CD way back in the day. But these never had a Shitty Reissue phase.

ARRRG. Well, it's the Fall catalog after all. If we didn't pull our hair out, it wouldn't be the Fall catalog.

I say "bah" to your endless unexciting repackagings. I say "bah" to your pointless compilation albums. I say "bah" to the endless live albums. You are not the fucking Grateful Dead.

And I say "bah" to the mediocre bands you have cobbled together since Scanlon and Hanley and Wolstencroft left and the mediocre albums you have released. (And yes, that includes the last one that everyone loved so much when all it really was was a bunch of people trying to make an album that sounded like the Fall used to sound.)

Why don't you cut out all the crap with the endless releases and concentrate on putting together a real band and making some decent music. Here's an idea, why don't you be the new singer in the Magic Band w/ John French and Mark Boston and the other guy they had?

Sincerely,

Your fan

I really can't keep up with all these reissues at all, I'm relieved that Donut et al are explaining it. I've been asleep at the switch, I mean I got all those things on vinyl in the 80's and then some of it I rebought on CD circa '90 and then I quit buying old Fall material. I'm shocked to learn that there were three reissues of Live At The Witch Trails, Room To Live, and In A Hole.

All I want is Fall In A Hole really because that's like the only pre-'90 Fall release I can think of that I never owned in any form ever. I just never saw it in stores back then. I don't even think the radio station had it. But what pisses me off is these reissues keep coming with ONE new track on em. Why not put all the unreleased songs on one damn CD? I wouldn't care if they did that and charged $60-80 for it.

The new Room To Live can pretty much replace any previous reissues you had... I can't tell if it's mastered from tape or vinyl, but it sounds good, and seems flawless to me. The bonus tracks are all live, and I could live without, but they're not bad to have at all.. Man, "Solicitor In Studio" is such an amazing song, now that I finally get to hear it loud and sounding good.. studio AND raw live.

I wish I could say the same about the new 2-CD reissue of Perverted By Language. It's mostly mastered from vinyl.. i can say that for sure... except for the first half and the "kick conspiracy/wings" single.. and maybe the new bonus "pilsner trail"..

You can hear the vinyl surface noise CLEARLY before "I feel voxish".. but it's very very clean vinyl. I wish I could say the same for "The Man Whose Head Expanded" single, but both A and B sides to that single have clear pops and cracks in it.. unlike the previous 1998 reissue that stuck otherwise clean versions of the 1983 era singles at the BEGINNING of the track listing before the actual album. FUCK. See, I was totally trusting all these Castle 2004/2005 reissues until now. This is just NOT a good way to bow out.

But then I listen to CD 2... ok, the peel session #5.. that's on the box. The remix of "Garden": nice.. the live tracks: like Whoa! They're pretty rough sounding, but they kick absolute ass.

So, I'm a bit schizo about the new Perverted By Language reissue. It's worth having for all the previously unreleased stuff, but you get stuck with a partially vinyl-mastered album and a BADLY vinyl mastered single... not the end of the world, but I expected far more from the quality that the Castle reissues have been providing thus far.

I'm just pissed off that I have to hang on to my previous issue of Perverted By Language in order to have the clean version of the album and singles, AND have the new one to have all the previously unreleased stuff which is priceless. (Of course, I can just rip them all and sell them all back, but I've already dedicated this much to the Fall, and I'm not about that) Ah well. Life sucks die etc. (And i BET YOU they will re-reissue an apology version which fixes these issues.)

I mean, I can understand the latter complaint, but jesus fucking a.

I'm going to pretend I haven't read that.

I hope so, because the one on the album fucking sux

sadly i have a bunch of these. :-(

the fall are like the only rock band i know to have a discography as extensive and chaotic as any jazz musician's. and i keep buying.

-- Dadaismus (dadaismu...), July 8th, 2005.

I'm glad to read this! Always thought Perverted by Language was their worst album (at least up until the recent "me and your granny on bongos" period).

don't know if this characteristically great douglas wolk article in the believer has been linked to yet

The Real New Fall LP is - IMO - the equal of any of the stuff I own....maybe a shade off of Nation's Saving Grace, but not really by that much....If it had been released in like 86 or something it would considered a huge classic....

i. I have been presented w. a variety of bands throughout the years tht are passed on to me as classic, great whatever via critical osmotic crypto-fascist pressure (this is I'll build em up, but don't you dare knock 'em down parade of critical darlings which is highly personal and very probably universal.) so ok, the fall were one of them - a band I hadn't heard, with a back catalogue I didn't know but a reputation with so much weight in the circles I moved, they were practically the center of the vortex: so I thought I would be a little dick and dismiss them, say fuck you, set myself up in direct opposition to this, cod-vice politico-critical nonsense I know and that's why I didn't go through with it - I tried to be a bit more honest (however much I achieved that well wahey wawho) and I tried to use my ears and my brain for a change. the time I wrote the review I was listening to A LOT of grime and noticing a lot of prima face surface similarities between the two musics but one I found very exciting, the other I couldn't get with, y'know wouldn't accept my invitation to dance.
ii. "all this at one time stunning and new but now just old and original" = not overtly negative response to the music, not overtly positive - more critical in its technical sense - this music was once really new, y'know, I can't really hear it now but I've got different ears attached to the first ones that heard it, and maybe you can hear it, bryan, I dunno, cool, but I can't, I want to understand why a. the fall are so feted and b. why I can't hear it. what is the context that I am in, what is the context that the fall exist in that I can't hear it and they can't transmit it? where does the background end and readable figure begin, y'know?
iii. "reissue is no inoculation against time's passing" /= "I hate reissues". and at brass tacks yeah maybe there is something as asinine at the heart of this comment as "this music is now different." but that is also an interesting question - commodity-based artforms are liable to the glories and tortures of contingency unleashed i.e. art released into new worlds, new worlds can be become. who knows. I need an editor perhaps.
iv. I'm sorry you found it obfuscatory because in a way it was - I was trying, in a way, to wriggle the noise of the fall out of myself. yes I know it's pretentious who am I etc. but an editor once told me not to try solve all my existential tingles in the space of 200 words. I told my friend frank kogan this and he said, "of course, who do you think you are, bob dylan?" he's right of course, and why can't music criticism make it's own claims. anyway - it goes back to my misunderstanding of the fall's ability to thrill - if I can thrill myself by replicating the fall in the thing I most love (haha if you don't know by now = me) then I can't maybe understand the fall's majesty.
v. I fucking LOVE the fall now.

haha "clearly stated"

Seriously though c'mon you don't get pumped up when you hear Theme From Sparta FC?

I guess the music and arrangements/playing is maybe a little more straight ahead and garage-y, minus some of the shambling of the earlier stuff (that I've heard), but honestly I think it's really great...I listen to it often....

oh XP

oh OK

What are you saying here?

And it's not like I'm listening to those old Fall reords every day, so yet another "lesser Fall album" doesn't seem to have much purpose for me. That said, I do own the last two and I think the Classic Fall Mode is at least better than albums like Levitate and The Marshall Plan (both of which I sold back).

Well, let's see...I've got a lot to digest here. I also got the Cog Sinister reissue of In A Hole, and another CD called Backdrop which I just got cause it had a higher number of songs I hadn't heard on it compared to other CD's I saw.

Someone is playing drums in a building next to my house. And I thought it was because I had put on "Hip Priest" in the next room without realizing it. In fact, I had put on no music at all in that room. And I heard these drums...

This is a useful report. I've been looking forward to this one (PBL is my favorite), and while I am disappointed to hear about the vinyl thing, it will be interesting to hear the original mix of the album (I have the 1998 CD), plus the additional stuff.

I thought the new Hex sounded worse than the 2002 reissue did...
-- svend (sort...)

The 2002 one is "Hex+," right? That's the one I'd like to find, as long as its sound is a significant improvement on the 1999 CD. Plus it has both sides of the "Look, Know" single, which I've never heard. The bonus stuff on the latest Hex reissue seems kind of slapdash and incomplete. (I already have the Hex-era Peel sessions elsewhere.)

(Obv I am not well.)

didn't that come out in like 1999??

The second disc of the Cerebral Caustic reissue is comprised mostly of "pre-release rough mixes" of the album tracks to which I say, "LOL."

Yes, quite different.

Actually if the liner notes mean anything these mixes *could* be the ones with Dave Bush's contributions before MES dumped him and removed his efforts. As I actually like what he did very much with the band around that time I'm curious to hear these.

---

Mark's autobiography - The Two-Year Gap - is due to be published by Penguin in November 2006. Brix is also writing a book about her time in the Fall. Can a made for TV film be far behind?

From the latest Penguin Rights Guide

THE TWO-YEAR GAP
Mark E Smith with Austin Collins [sic - it's actually Collings, who did that MES interview in the Guardian last year]

Still going after thirty years, The Fall are one of the most distinctive British bands, their music - odd, spare, cranky and repetitious - an acknowledged influence on The Smiths, The Happy Mondays, Nirvana and Franz Ferdinand. And Mark E. Smith IS The Fall - 47 members have come and gone over the years yet he remains its charismatic leader, a professional outsider and all-round enemy of compromise, a true enigma. There have been a number of biographies of the legendary Smith, but this is the first time he has opened up in a full autobiography. For the first time we get to hear his full, candid take on the ups and downs of a band as notorious for its in-house fighting as for its great music; and on a life that has endured prison in America, drugs, bankruptcy, divorce, and the often bleak results of a legendary thirst.

Manchester band The Fall was founded in 1977 and was one of a trio of great bands (with Joy Division and the Buzzcocks) to come out of the city at that time. They have released a remarkable 79 albums and still continue to tour at a punishing rate. Having survived punk, 80s indie, Madchester and Britpop, they continue to have a near religious following.

Mark E Smith was a founder member of The Fall and still lives in Manchester where the band was formed. This is his first book.

Viking
November 2006
288pp
US Rights: Penguin UK
Translation Rights: Luxton Harris

And from bookseller.com (Viking is part of the Penguin Group)

Tony Lacey at Viking has world rights in a memoir by Mark E. Smith, frontman of rock band The Fall. Smith will tell his story of infighting, drugs, imprisonment, bankruptcy and divorce in The Two-Year Gap, written with Austin Collins [sic]. Publication will be in April 2007. The agent is David Luxton at Luxton Harris.

So it appears that the UK edition will be out this November, and the non-UK editions in April 2007. It was the same for Simon Reynolds's recent postpunk book.

No word I know of beyond that one report above. Possibly still being considered.

patience

A Part of America Therein, 1981, remastered, with twelve tracks.

Slates, remastered, thirteen tracks.

Slates/A Part of America Therein, 1981, remastered, fourteen tracks, different from both of the above.

All three released within a month of each other in early 2005 by Sanctuary. So, what the hell? I was under the impression that Slate was appended to earlier CD issues of A Part of America Therein because it was a short EP, but...I...different tracklistings...oh dear, I think I've gone cross-eyed.

So which do I get, and why?

The "Slates" remastered CD contains the original mini-LP plus 4 tracks from a Peel session, the 2 tracks from the Lie-Dream/Fantastic Life 7" and "Medical Acceptance Gate", an outtake previously available on a compilation CD.

The "A Part of America" remastered CD contains the original 8 tracks from the album plus 4 additional live songs recorded around the same time.

If you have the Peel sessions set, you'll have less reason to need the remastered "Slates", except that "Lie Dream of a Casino Soul" and "Fantastic Life" are both great songs. They are available elsewhere. If you need "Medical Acceptance Gate", your only other official option is that compilation where it and their cover of "A Day in the Life" (from the late Beggars' Banquet era) are the only real selling-points.

The 4 live songs added to the "A Part of America" remastered CD aren't officially available elsewhere.

More Fall talk needed. These reissues, all of which were fantastic in terms of bonus tracks. liner notes and attention to detail, are often available cheap. Collect 'em all!

Allegedly we're going to get deluxe reissues of "The Wonderful & Frightening World" and "This Nation's Saving Grace" imminently.

Now someone needs to reissue a deluxe "Marshall Suite"!

I used to get the cassette versions of the Fall albums when they were on Beggars, because of all the extra tracks (in fact I'm sure that version of "won&Fri" is the definitive version)

^^^me too for all the Beggar's releases originally. (Still miss the live 'City Hobgoblins' on Bend Sinister!)

don't forget "Guide Me Soft", still only available on the BB cassette version of I Am Kurious Oranj.

"City Hobgoblins" is the version found on "Palace Of Swords Reversed", you mean "Town & Country Hobgoblins", which is exclusive to the cassette:
http://www.divshare.com/download/9093235-840

"Guide Me Soft" is on the CD version of IAKO.

ah, thanks, didn't know that

The extra tracks on "Seminal Live" also make the cassette (CD?) version definitive, and, um, alright really.

The studio tracks on "Seminal Live" are solid but the live bits are uninspired. Worth the dollar I paid for it.

The studio tracks aren't exactly inspired, though. I'm a huge fan but that's definitely one of their most inessential releases.

Ah, just checked the Fallnet: For some reason, thought there were more studio tracks (as opposed to more Live tracks, which there are)

you need that old pinball machine

You do indeed.

H.O.W. is essential Fall, the only really necessary track off Seminal. But Pinball Machine is lots of fun too.

I also like Mollusc In Tyrol! Perhaps an inessential record, but by no means bad.

I was wondering about the state of the back catalog and found this short article I had missed from last August:

http://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/we-never-fell-out-with-mark-cherry-red-s-iain-mcnay-on-the-fall-reissues-campaign/073452

beggars banquet did super-deluxe-type reissues of two of the '80s albums and they are amazing--tons of outtakes, rarities, and incredibly extensive liners that went through the relevant era in copious detail with interviews from all the major players, plus excerpts from tons of contemporaneous reviews, interviews, etc etc etc. just incredible. but i think the series that those were a part of was discontinued.

sometimes i wondered if the chain of title on those fall records was clear, but then i remembered that for all his other problems, MES could actually be a pretty sharp -- and ruthless -- businessman. my guess is that he took care to retain the copyright on all fall albums from the beginning. though i doubt he was of much help to anyone searching for original session tapes, etc.

also by "sold us the rights" does cherry red guy mean... licensed the rights, or outright sold?

I assume he means licensed (would be wild if otherwise)

but who would own them now, anyway? mark's sister?

this all makes me so sad. he should still be with us...

Beggars Banquet is finally reissuing Bend Sinister as a 2CD or 2LP in March — a less deluxe affair than those Omnibus editions, but gathering up relevant singles/rarities/BBC tracks and a few unreleased versions.

It's great that it's coming out but between the original, the 458489 B-Sides comp and the Peel box, there's only 4-6 previously unreleased tracks.

Apart from those mid period records currently rare and highly priced the main thing I want on lp is the peel sessions. Is this a completely forlorn hope?

probably, yeah, it would be like a 12-LP set?

since this thread is active I might as well put this here:

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/mbzeg8/the-oral-history-of-mark-e-smith

Awesome that BB is finally doing bend sinister, it’s actually pretty intriguing to hear how it will sound given the piece of fall lore that says John Leckie gave MES a cassette of his final mix to listen to and MES insisted that the release be mastered from the cassette instead of the tapes, causing Leckie to head for the hills. Bend subsisted definitely belongs up there with its predecessors and towers over its immediate successors.

Psyched to have that live take of hobgoblins back in my life (grew up with the tape)

Keiron Melling: We were sat in a bar, and he decided he wanted some new shoes and asked Dave [Spurr, Fall member 2006-2017] to go and get him some. Dave asked him what size and Mark had no clue, so he took his shoe off and drew round it on a piece of paper, and just gave that to him to take to the shoe shop.

lmao

practical to the last

Not really, should have drawn round his foot.