Why does Europeans never want to listen to country music?

maybe this is all over-inflated in my mind because of lolGeir, but at the risk of making a vast cultural overgeneralization it does seem to me like of all the types of music America has energetically exported to the rest of the world, country music is the one that never caught on. Jazz, rock, hip hop - all of these have their fanatical non-American devotees. It's roots are, like numerous other more popular American musical subgenres, a combination of African-American and European immigrant cultures. Lyrically it covers all kinds of universal themes. It's more often than not populist and catchy. But country seems to occupy a peculiarly all-American place in global culture, and I'm not sure why this is. All answers/speculation that are not from Geir are welcome...

and I think this applies to non-European countries too. I don't think Hank Williams is huge in Brazil, although there may be some subculture in Japan that is obsessed with Buck Owens, I dunno...

the Brits adored country music

uh this should be on I Love Music. shit. mods!

There have been plenty of country singles that have made #1 in the UK charts.

now or 40 years ago?

It was the BBC who made that excellent Lost Highway doc series on country music.

Garth Brooks was (is?) massive in the UK and Ireland

Need I remind you of the Stones' fascination with country? Or the English folk movement?

there's a show on one of the satellite channels that features Irish, UK and American Country. it's not really singles chart massive over here but there's a huge fanbase still. and the Germans seem to be pretty keen too, there's a bunch of German country bands.

They just don't have their own country traditions over there, though. I mean, Irish country music is analogous to something like The Chieftains.

"For us, 'American' represents the westerns, Texas, the Indians, freedom," said Dominique, who lived near Dijon and was dressed in jeans, boots, a shirt emblazoned with American flags, a cowboy hat and carried a pistol strapped to her hips. Her husband, a retired railway worker, was outfitted in similar garb. "For decades we've only listened to country music," she added. "No French music, only country music and bluegrass."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/travel/08iht-festival.1.7019482.html

there's a bunch of German country bands

This is fabulous news. I'll be on youtube if anyone needs me.

i used to know a little drunk guy who wore a stetson and called himself Tex btw.

Country and Irish is its own, terrifying thing. It's basically all my hometown radio station plays

germany LOVES country music.

country music and Manowar.

i mean, there is a reason that the bear family exists in germany and not here. they are addicted over there.

Scandinavians are pretty good at cranking out alt.country now and then.

given that Tejano music is a fusion of German & Mexican musics, I'd think there'd be a way for that kinda rootsy thing to cross over there. At a festival in Munich one summer I heard a local oompah band cover "Mendocino", a start.

i mean, there is a reason that the bear family exists in germany and not here. they are addicted over there.

― scott seward, Monday, April 25, 2011 11:19 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

otm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAE9Hylcj48&feature=related

Hull Trawlermen were often into their cowboy culture, i guess they thought of the sea as being like the open range, which accounts for our Rugby club's theme song.

5 CDs and a 120 page book. wow. want. go germany.

http://www.bear-family.de/out/1/html/0/dyn_images/z1/bcd16094.jpg

http://cdn.healthhabits.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/myth-busted.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1BDRerUtMQ

Need I remind you of the Stones' fascination with country?

yeah and Jagger's take on it is ... conflicted to say the least. also Stones/Beatles not necessarily representative of general populace music-tastewise.

Or the English folk movement?

uh, I'm gonna let this one go lol

i mean, there is a reason that the bear family exists in germany and not here. they are addicted over there.

this is a good point, hadn't occurred to me!

Happy to learn that I am just wrong and Geir is weird. Am currently surveying my Hungarian in-laws for how they feel about it.

English:
5-CD boxed set (LP-size) with 120-page hardcover book. 124 tracks; playing time approx. 6 hrs 25 mns. -- 'The single most important event in the history of country music.' (JOHNNY CASH, on the 1927 Bristol sessions). This is the foundation of country music! An unsurpassed storehouse of traditional American music, featuring the first recordings by the Carter Family and Jimmie Rodgers. The legendary sessions issued complete for the first and only time, including the ultra-rare follow-up sessions from 1928! -- The recording trip made by Victor Records to Bristol, Tennessee in July-August 1927 was a defining moment in country music. Producer Ralph Peer found two acts that acquired national and international fame: Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter Family. But more than a hundred other recordings were made at the Bristol sessions of 1927 and '28. There were ballad singers, street evangelists, string bands, gospel quartets, harmonica virtuosos, Holiness preachers, blues guitarists and rural storytellers. A snapshot of rural American music was caught in an era of rapid change: pictures of a past almost beyond recall, but preserved for ever in these magnificent recordings. -- The five CDs in this set gather every surviving recording from these sessions, including alternative takes. The accompanying 120-page, LP-sized hardcover book contains newly researched essays on the background to the sessions and on the individual artists, with many rare and unpublished photographs. Also included are complete song lyrics and a detailed discography, illustrated with reproductions of the original recording sheets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_l9T1iM84k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTfWTqQ0dM

Read the "Herre" of "Hot in Herre" in German in my head

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERVZYGAzJcU

Never heard of these particular artists, but this displays most of the defining characteristics of Country and Irish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP5n0yflDZo

My aunts in Kerry would be so down with this.

Scandinavians are pretty good at cranking out alt.country now and then.

Yeah, whatserface from Bettie Serveert had a side project called Chitlin' Fooks that were pretty much this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcs7loUWwzo

sorry but the Netherlands isn't in Scandinavia iirc?

Not that this says anything representative about national taste, but Germany did send a decent pop-country song to Eurovision a couple of years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQqRNq9YqYw

Ah, for some reason I was confusing Bettie Serveert w/ The Cardigans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbi2i0j0k9M

mo dutch country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ8mY1C89po

I like the skiffle beat of that German Eurovision song but it's not really...country? That Dutch business qualifies just fine. I think it's in the swing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Ly_b6rS-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jc2efqj5Js

I guess that skiffle was coming straight out of country, so you could argue that it's actually deep in the dna of british rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbAh1DvvtL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qjNyHsWD7g

Whoever moved this thread I haet you because you're making me read ILM. Also I just tried to post 3 times and couldn't figure out why I only got a blank screen.

SO ANYWAY. That Pussycat song is great, AND youtube tells me they're playing in Brooklyn in May...??

The skiffle-style beat is way prevalent in country music up until the last 30 years or so.

Friend of mine linked this on Facebook the other day. More Country & Irish hotness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KulZbuZFet4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8HnzjBXG9k

IT'S NOT THE SKIFFLE, IT'S THE LACK OF SWING. Although thanks for all these youtubes because they are a treat.

Country clearly came from the Irishes and Britishes that settled in Appalachia a couple centuries ago, right? Especially Irishes. It's no wonder there are a lot of traditional Irish touches in early American country, and it still carries over in some smaller ways now.

Yeah, I take Appalachian clogging and highland dance classes, I am somewhat aware of these ties. :D

Oh, that wasn't directed at you, but rather a general statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHfp78kOjkk

I WILL SPARE YOU REDNEX

Country clearly came from the Irishes and Britishes that settled in Appalachia a couple centuries ago, right? Especially Irishes.

yeah, a lot. but there's German elements too - polka, for ex.

Totally forgot that Steps originated as a line-dancing thing. That was huge in Ireland in the '90s too.

i mean, there is a reason that the bear family exists in germany and not here. they are addicted over there.

hm, I assumed a lot of those European roots-oriented labels (Bear Family, JSP, Charly, Snapper, Proper) were just trying to reissue stuff without having to worry about American copyright litigation & import their products to the US to sell at (with the exception of Bear Family) budget prices. I wonder how their album sales break down w/r/t American vs. European audiences.

country + glossy Scandinavian chartpop = bliss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHirD3BfzMg

isn't country music pretty big in Norway? Wikipedia names Heidi Hauge and Bjøro Håland as a couple of popular country acts their, but I don't know how closely their music resembles modern American stuff.

Bjøro Håland (born 6 October 1943) is a Norwegian country singer.

He was born on Håland in Norway and grew up in Audnedal with five siblings. In 1960 he emigrated to the USA. He worked as a construction worker and sang in bars. He moved back to Norway in 1966.

Håland has released 22 records which have sold four million copies.

yeah, country is huge there. not too surprising, since the ruralist and patriotic themes resonate well with norwegian life and culture.

i buy shakey's basic contention - with a thousand caveats, but still: yes. american country is somewhat unique in its resistance to transfiguration through export. i mean, all musical genres come from somewhere, a specific point in time, place and culture. but most become plastic as they move out from that point. they usually bear some authenticating stain of the ur-culture that bore them, but they adapt to the needs of other times, places and people, even eventually recolonizing the land of their birth in new "foreign" guises. this has been true to at least some extent of the blues, jazz, rock, funk, punk, disco, dub, metal, etc.

doesn't really seem to have been true of american country. country is probably appreciated all around the world, but it hasn't often been successfully recreated in mutant form, recreated to suit alien needs. its core identity, the way it symbolizes a specific culture and its ethos, seems resistant to this sort of creative meddling.

maybe this has something to do with the fact that country is the symbolic voice of america's dominant (white) culture, and that america herself so dominated 20th century pop. like country is somehow too strongly tied to an ostensibly indomitable white-american-ness to ever surrender comfortably to other hands. does this make sense? i ask myself, i guess. why would rap, for instance, be less "indomitable" in this sense? perhaps because rap cannot claim to so easily speak for dominance, for specific power. it therefore becomes more easily metaphorical, suited to the needs of those coming up from under other sorts of oppression.

this analysis doesn't sit well with american country's long history of outlaw/outsider/rural-as-underclass posturing. that's probably another argument though...

Isn't there at least one middle aged bloke in every English town who calls himself "Tex", wears a Stetson, listens to country music a lot and dreams of a cowboy life while driving around in his Mondeo?

Or is this a television sitcom thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abmrAf0evgk

with a thousand caveats, but still: yes. american country is somewhat unique in its resistance to transfiguration through export. i mean, all musical genres come from somewhere

Hmmm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMr6SSHP-A0&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm4v_A7E7zU

doesn't really seem to have been true of american country.

now that i've said this, and in light of the last few posts above (note chilli on ruralist & patriotic norwegian country), i've got my doubts. maybe american country is better integrated into world pop than i thought. and maybe the difference is not that country resists this kind of transformation, but that america is not interested in transformed country. we sometimes accept the mutant versions of rock and even rap that arrive from distant shores, but we keep country sacred. it must be authentically american even to exist.

otfm

Just commenting to nth the observation that country in many forms, from early Johnny Cash to sons of Mayo putting on fake American accents singing about corner forwards, is massive in large tracts of rural Ireland.

http://www.glasgowsgrandoleopry.co.uk/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-8EOf8GlnI

"i ask myself, i guess. why would rap, for instance, be less "indomitable" in this sense? perhaps because rap cannot claim to so easily speak for dominance, for specific power. it therefore becomes more easily metaphorical, suited to the needs of those coming up from under other sorts of oppression"

Personally, I never thought to American country and folk as inextricably tied to an expression of white American political/cultural "dominance". I love Johnny Cash, Lefty Frizzell, Marty Robbins, Porter Wagoner because their songs have an universal emotional power, and I guess it's the same for lots of other people.
If Europeans who love country can't really grasp it or recreated it, maybe its because a) it is not an easily manageable musical form and b) still has strong, intense cultural connotations rooted in American reality.

Country's hugely popular with older people across Europe. It's also absolutely massive throughout the West Indies, again mostly with older people but it's very widespread. If you walk into a mall or supermarket in Trinidad, there's a decent chance that they'll be playing Nashville pop-country over the PA.

Despite all of this evidence of Country's euro-popularity, time and again here, when we discuss some huge song like "Before He Cheats" or "Need You Now", some poster writes something like "But I have never heard of this song because I live in Europe."

Before He Cheats made no impact here but Need You Now was a top 10 hit across Europe.

I also wouldn't underestimate the pull of country mythology and its crossover with the mythology of the Western film genre. As mentioned upthread, there are lots of guys in Middle England watching John Wayne films and dreaming of big skies and steer-ropin'. The Western has, to a degree, been adapted to domestic realities when it has been taken up abroad but there's a fixed classic vision that mirrors a lot of the themes in the kind of classic country music European singers seem to love replicating.

You could also argue that most countries already have their own form of humour-laden, anti-authoritarian traditional music (whether it's folk ballads or calypso) and hybridisation is either unnecessary or so natural as to not be noticed.

xpost
I work in a record store and certainly big country stars are not popular here (with the exception of Shania Twain): there is anyway a consistent audience made of loyal aficionados who regularly buy records from artists as different as Brad Paisley, Faith Hill or Dierks Bentley.

"also wouldn't underestimate the pull of country mythology and its crossover with the mythology of the Western film genre. As mentioned upthread, there are lots of guys in Middle England watching John Wayne films and dreaming of big skies and steer-ropin'"

This totally otm.
Especially immediately after World War II, western films and actors like John Wayne (regularly pronounced Yon Vayne) were immensely successful here and shaped a new interest for real and mythological American hystory (one of the reasons behind the spaghetti western phenomenon and the way Morricone handled country music, by the way).

history, even.

Country clearly came from the Irishes and Britishes that settled in Appalachia a couple centuries ago, right? Especially Irishes.

By Irishes, you mean Ulster by and large... and that's not quite the same thing

Country music is huge on the Norwegian countryside. The Norwegian country audiences tend to prefer an even more watered down kind of Norwegian country music, partly influenced by Swedish "dancebands", over the American equivalent though, and the more pop oriented Nashville country that has dominated the Southern US market since the early 90s has never really caught on here (although "Achy Breaky Heart" was a bit hit).

xp to Tom D

True, and, as has been pointed out many times already, Country was huge in Ireland until the late 80s/ early 90s, but it's now a shadow of what it was: younger folk outside the cities, that were once its staple audience went, almost as one, over to cheesy rave and techno and never came back. The exception is Ulster - the province as a whole, and not just the 6 counties of Northern Ireland, where country is still mainstream.

Some examples of hugely popular Norwegian country acts, selling hundreds of thousands among not very educated people in the Norwegian countryside, hated with a passion by critics, music geeks and virtually all Norwegians living in more urban areas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETgFd0-1DWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETgFd0-1DWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeDpBljiO2w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig0RUj3WN9s

It should also be added that Jim Reeves is one of the bestselling singles acts ever on the Norwegian market.

(Second link was supposed to be this one):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VwfGmsb93g

selling hundreds of thousands among not very educated people in the Norwegian countryside

*chuckle*

Note that these are all really horrible, and probably part of the reason why country is not being taken seriously as a music form in Norway.

I discovered Marie Fisker (from Denmark) through her appearance on last year's Trentemøller album. Highly recommended alt-country in the Patsy Cline lineage. The album Ghost of Love is pretty good, but this earlier recording plays up the Cline influence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDkzzyW_qyE

some of those alt country people play to large audiences in the UK but mean next to nothing in places like France or Germany. I've been waiting five years for Lucinda Williams to tour Europe. still waiting.

Bjork has spoke often about her affection for Dolly Parton's songs.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4561/spurdersteine.jpg

alt country was kinda big around europe around the turn of the century. Uncut was basically a fanzine for alt country at the time.

man, that's for sure. all those friggin' magazine sampler CDs i got with lambchop and whiskeytown tracks on them.

brits still love the eels a lot? you can take that guy if you want.

Son Volt! Damien Jurado! In this month's Uncut!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJAjIq4OSB4

Uncut was basically a fanzine for alt country at the time.

It still is. It covers all kinds of other music as well, but Americana is what its accompanying CDs tend to be about. They have added a retro/baby boomer element to their coverage, but there is still a whole lot of Americana.

alt country was kinda big around europe around the turn of the century

I would say this was true of the UK only, not continental Europe at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EsQMOrzZiQ

apologies if mentioned before (i doubt it though)

(dutch country btw)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ubouXZnjidE/TLCF5IK32eI/AAAAAAAAARY/acJNcK0ogZY/s1600/Caravan+front.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ubouXZnjidE/TLCQyQ0IgMI/AAAAAAAAARg/M4alYff8cmo/s1600/In+The+Morning+front.jpg

um, not that they are from europe...

to answer the thread title question - it is because country music is shit.

You just wiped out almost a century's worth of very diverse music with one word. Congrats!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paa2NRBA7eU

real country appreciation in the UK is more underground than indie nowadays.

seriously though there's a hell of a lot of alt country indie schmindie love for wilco, ryan adams etc over here, but most fairly hip younguns just won't bother looking further than that unless there's an obvious indie connection or it's old stuff served up to them by hip sources (johnny cash and the like). yes there was huge country love in the 40s, 50s, 60s and with Dolly and a bunch of the outlaw stuff after that, but nowadays when country artists do come over and play it's a pretty funny and definitely "uncool" mixture of people at the shows, lots of slightly older people, some really funny townie people in cowboy hats who know more brad paisley lyrics than i'd assume a lot of american would who've obviously been turned onto random country acts via the internet, all very unfashionable but these people are genuinely into it so have a great time at the shows.

2 major reasons why more mainstream country stuff isn't as big as it possibly could be in the UK nowadays-

1. most of the artists are on major record labels - in the states they're being pushed by country subsidiaries like capital nashville or at least by product managers at majors who know how to push things to country radio etc and have an obvious audience to promote to. However there's nothing like that in the UK - so for a lot of big acts the people told to promote them here either don't know how or don't think it's worth the effort as 'there's no country audience in the UK' (the fact that audiences have to be created and nurtured probably doesn't cross many minds). in the last few years some huge country albums just haven't been released, or have taken years to come out here - because the UK labels either saw no point in releasing them or released them with no promo push. i'm totally convinced if someone put effort into really pushing some of the Rascal Flatts or Keith Urban singles to mainstream UK radio they would be huge over here.

2. a connected reason many don't come over to tour/promote is that the country audience has been so ill nurtured that touring isn't financially viable outside of a few big cities; thus it's pointless for big american acts to work hard to tour anywhere but in the USA - why would they switch from packed arenas in the USA to 1500 seaters in a few UK cities where often their albums aren't even available?

also people have lousy taste - and aaaalso there's still a lot of post-Deliverance/Easy Rider prejudice against the south/southern culture that is probably deeply embedded in people's minds along with Achey Breakey Heart and other assorted bad shit that puts people off. country is really not cool, and you know people love being cool. These factors are probably just as prevalent in the U.S. actually, but still play a part.

is there any well-known country artist that DOES take the time to tour at all in the u.k. or europe? i would think someone like willie nelson would draw just as a pop icon kinda thing. or dolly even. the living legend thing. someone must go over there!

I know Dolly does shows but does she really still do long tours...? I know Willie does. that dude puts out an album every year.

is there any well-known country artist that DOES take the time to tour at all in the u.k. or europe?

Well, Taylor Swift...

and my parents went to a Dolly P show here (Norway) maybe two years ago, so yes.

a hoy hoy

They're probably the exceptions actually in both playing the UK at least once ever few years, not sure about europe.

Taylor is the obvious pop crossover exception; we'll see how that lasts in 5-10 years when some of the fairweather friends have grown out of her a bit I guess

other than that there are maybe 5-10 (at the most) mainstream country acts per year in London, and they probably only do a Manchester show and possibly an Irish date too at a stretch. actually maybe someone Irish on here can confirm but i'd assume it still sells okay over there - there seemed to be lots of Irish people holidaying in and around Nashville every time i've been.

Most relatively successful US country acts play a limited number of shows if they come over but they tend to be fairly well-paying, i'd say. For example, they might not sell out Wembley Arena but quite a lot of them play places like the Royal Albert Hall where they can target a relatively affluent fan. I'd guess most of us wouldn't necessarily know if Rascal Flatts, for example, were touring here - the shows are usually advertised in unfashionable places (Culture section of Sunday Times / Daily Mail, etc) and don't get picked up for review often.

It's worth remembering that BBC Radio 2 still draws an enormous audience and they'll always have at least a few modern country songs on the playlist. They also have a dedicated country show aimed at more traditional fans. Taylor Swift aside, not much is going to chart high but they probably sell a reasonable number of albums.

Some of the typical mainstream acts are popular enough here to get these weird special made compilations

http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/008/659/0000865957_350.jpg

The above has been heavily advertised on TV and probably sold a lot.

taylor swift audience at shepherds bush last year was completely different to every other country show i've been to in London at least - seemed to be 95% young girls, 4.9% parents, 0.05% music biz people, 0.05% me and the wife and a few other random people.

Shepherds bush empire or hammersmith apollo seem to be the common places - i'm thinking its probably the same promoter who does
the work on those shows.

latest Rascal Flatts album hasn't been released here and they've not played here for an age, if at all.

oh come on what about the 0.05% perverts

xp

i'm a definite pervert.

worse pervert count for any show i've been to = vanessa carlton at shepherds bush empire. entire front row were middle aged fat guys.

ew

I think Kris Kristofferson tours Europe a fair bit?

yeah i saw him late last year, was great. I think he has enough 60s/folk/pop/rock/movie crossover action to bypass the country stigma though, and again very old audience at that show, all 50 and 60 somethings

I would guess it also doesn't help country's popularity in Europe that it seems to be very popular among a particular group of Americans (you know, Southern religious far right conservatives) that basically doesn't exist in Europe at all. We have far right working class people here too, but they are not by far as linked to fundamentalist Christianity that the American right seems to be. Thus, even supporters of far right populist parties in Europe don't really feel like they have much in common with the stereotypical Southern US country fan.

basically doesn't exist in Europe at all

lol

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/National_Front_at_gay_pride_2007.jpg

"The Progress Party currently regards itself to be a "libertarian people's party",[93] and its ideology to be classical liberalism[2] or conservative liberalism.[94] The party identifies itself in the preamble of its platform as a libertarian party, built on Norwegian and Western traditions and cultural heritage, with a basis in a Christian understanding of life and humanist values.[93] Its main declared goal is a strong reduction in taxes and government intervention.["

no similarities there, nope

Comparing a marginal extremist movement in the UK to a very mainstream culture in the American south feels a bit pointless, really. In Texas, the typical average white man on the street hates gay people and black people. It's not like that anywhere in Western Europe (although it may occur in certain Eastern European countries)

how about this nazi-sympathesizing pederast-protecting far right asshole:

http://theislamicstandard.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/evil-pope1.jpg

In Texas, the typical average white man on the street hates gay people and black people

oh do tell

Shakey: I sincerely hate the Progress Party, but it is very far from Christian fundamentalism. For instance, it has a very liberal view upon alcohol politics.

Mind you, I didn't say the far right doesn't exist in Europe, but it's actually more anti-religion than pro-religion in a lot of ways. Particularly if religion means Islam.

For instance, it has a very liberal view upon alcohol politics.

so do most southern racist christian fundamentalists FYI

Surely, there are definitely lots of similarities between supporters of European populist right wing parties, like both appeal most of all to what could easily be defined as white trash. But the view upon religion is very different. And also, most (not all) Western European populist right wing parties are considerably less outspoken homophobes than the American right wing is. I cannot quite imagine right wing Americans using gay rights as a (in this case, cheap) argument against Islam, but the European right wing often does.

That said, Progress Party is probably the most popular party of choice amongs Norwegian country fans. So surely, there is a link there.

rmde

i leave for 5 mins and GEIRBOMB.

The majority of mainstream US country doesn't have any really obvious evangelic push. There's some sentimental god bothering but thats really not the reason for the suggested lack of worldwide success.

In Texas, the typical average white man on the street hates gay people and black people.

Which street is this?

just to again reiterate that country and western is huge in rural ireland, tho most of the 'stars' are local and not yanks.

Kris kristofferson plays two or three times a year just in mayo tho.

In Texas, the typical average white man on the street hates gay people and black people.

I'm not proud of rural regions like East Texas or the Panhandle where this may be true, but the mayor of the largest city is an lesbian, and it may be the most racially and culturally diverse large city (by fraction) in the nation. And even the rural areas used to be remarkably progressive, the civil rights movement only succeeded after a progressive Texan became president.

I really doubt that the percentage of white texan men who actively "hate" black people is even in the double digits.

As a white man in Texas, I felt it my duty to SB Geir. Let's avoid jumping to conclusions about places you've never been please.

Why does Finns hate Texans?

Geir figures if he calls other people racist nobody will notice that he's actually the racist

otm

You people have a completely wrong idea about who racists are. The archetypical racist is a white working class man with no education and hardly no IQ who hates black people because he feels threatened by them. Middle or upper class people are never racists.

personal best

cool theory

Geir, are you ever drunk while posting on ILM?

norwegian moonshine! he's loaded on it!

Due to the very high taxation of alcohol, moonshine production primarily from potatoes and sugar continues to be a popular, albeit illegal, activity in various parts of the country. Moonshining occurs in the Mid- and North-Norwegian regions in particular and rural areas in general. Norwegian moonshine is called "hjemmebrent" or "heimebrent" (which translates into English as "home-burnt") and sometimes also "heimkok"/"himkok" (meaning "home-cooked") or "heimert"/"himert" (slang) in Norwegian, and the mash is called "sats". In rural parts of eastern Norway, it is also refered to as "ni-seks"(meaning "nine-six", refering to the alcohol content, 96% ABV) as a common moonshine variant is rectified spirits from potatoes. In the county of Telemark mash is also referred to as "bæs". In the old days on Finnskogen they called the mash Skogens vin ("Wine of the forest"), a name used by poorer people without access to distilling equipment. When talking to foreigners, some Norwegians use the term "something local" about their moonshine. In Norway, moonshine is commonly mixed with coffee, and sometimes a spoon of sugar. This drink is known as karsk, and has a special tie to the mid- and north-Norwegian regions, but is also enjoyed elsewhere. A common joke is that the traditional mixture was made by brewing the strongest, blackest coffee possible, then putting a 5 Øre piece (a copper coin of size and color of a pre-decimalization English penny, no longer in circulation) in a cup. Add coffee to the cup until the coin can no longer be seen, then add hjemmebrent, straight from the still until the coin can again be seen. Apple juice is also a common beverage for mixing, as it is said to "kill the taste" of bad moonshine.

i've had this before. woooooooooooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. drunk as a skunk. poured it in my coffee.

I had a foreigner on slsk IM me to discuss country/folk yesterday. We had a long conversation

interesting -- i knew moonshine was popular in norway but never that it was such a developed part of the culture. finns are more often the ones portrayed as the crazy/drunk

You people have a completely wrong idea about who racists are. The archetypical racist is a white working class man with no education and hardly no IQ who hates black people because he feels threatened by them. Middle or upper class people are never racists.

This is, without a doubt, the funniest thing you have ever written.

Signed, someone who has experienced racism first-hand from middle- and upper-class people.

What may sometimes be construed as "racism" by middle or upper class people usually isn't. It may be classism though, and classism may possibly be confused with racism by people from certain cultural backgrounds. If somebody doesn't say racist stuff directly, then it is wrong to interpret it as racism. Hitler, for instance, never left any doubt about his racism, never tried to hide it. Racists usually don't.

I've said it before but... my mind boggles that geir has avoided permanent sb'ing over the years.

anyway, awaaaaaaay we go!

wow wow wow

honestly, i can't remember the last time it was even funny

And now a Norwegian is going to lecture an African-American on what is and isn't racism, and is going to further imply that said Africa-American is lower-class enough to have really experienced class bias.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cqRiF3AlZ_c/TaykZBna1EI/AAAAAAAAAb8/xNz8Ckob5SI/s400/300px-Do_Not_Adjust_Your_Set.jpg

I come from a musical background where music is supposed to be a result of intellect, supposed to be clever and skillful and trained, supposed to be from the head, not from the body.

That musical background is very different from R&B, and means I cannot accept the musical values of R&B. But that doesn't mean I am racist, just that, for me, music is something intellectual, elite oriented and not for the masses. The masses are supposed to be audiences, not performers.

This is built upon the classical tradition, which is from Europe, and in Europe, only white people lived when that tradition was developed by - largely - middle and upper class people btw. But that doesn't make it rascist. NOR classist. Because everyone can try to learn that tradition if they only get into it. And make music as brilliant as those who are already into it make. Skin colour is of now interest, because black people can make just as good classically influenced head music if they only try.

Basically, to make good music, you need to be middle class. But black people can also be middle class.

dan

can you pls just take a minute to think about what geir's told you and maybe consider that you *imagined* it all along?

i think it's worth a moment of yr time dude

Is it time to finally sb the hell out of Geir, you guys?

oy you're not allowed cheerlead for sb's i remember that distinctly

oh man <3 geir.

Sorry, I've never sb'ed anyone ever. I don't know the ruleses.

You people are just trying to invent some stupid reasoning for defending over-simplistic and corporate commercial music when there is no other good reaosn to defend it.

Prog rock, sophisticated pop and similar genres are superior to other popular music, not because they are "white", but because they are more clever, more sophisticated, more head music.

Generally, music should be cool, calm, collected and intellectual. Not emotive.

For the same reasons, it's about time AOR and soft rock stop taking shit. Because they are obviously superior to other more "emotional" genres. They have more skills, are more clever, and as such are superior.

Music should not be emotive?

WHY DO YOU THINK MUSIC EVEN EXISTS?

And basically - this is also my problem with country music. Too simple, too down to earth, to "man on the street". Good music shouldn't be like that.

Head music?! Ha ha ha! That is pretentious twaddle trying to cloak itself in pseudo-intellectualism!

XX-Post: Emotions should be in the music itself, not in the performance. Just look to classical music. Anyone should look to classical music. Classical music is the blueprint.

Wtf are men in the street supposed to listen to when they're throwing back a couple of brews after a 40, 50, 60 hour week, Geir? Bach?

Geir, I've always found you peculiar, but today I find you revolting.

What do you mean, "you people?"

Classical music is the blueprint.

Never mind the thousands of years of music that came before it.

not in the performance

And what about Pagannini? Liszt?

I hope all of you guys arguing with Geir realize ur just the straight men in this conversation

this guy gets better with every post.

it's about time AOR and soft rock stop taking shit.

but you hate the carpenters!!

Not to mention every worthwhile opera singer ever...

Also fuck the idea that music is 'supposed' to be anything.

Wtf are men in the street supposed to listen to when they're throwing back a couple of brews after a 40, 50, 60 hour week, Geir? Bach?

Or Genesis. Or Yes. Or even 10cc or Prefab Sprout or Scritti Politti for that matter. As long as it's intelligent and skillful and not too emotive.

but you hate the carpenters!!

No, but they had too much of a country element in their music for their own good. And were obviously not as skillful musicians as Toto or Asia.

i can take all the madness the world has to bring
but i won't last a day without geir

what book should one read after a hard day down t'pit

great thread

Yeah, I can see an average guy who, say, works as a busdriver clocking out and heading for the local bar and getting his drink on and unwinding to Scritti Politti while he and his buddies play a round of darts. Because what he really wants instead of just a comfortable atmosphere of music is something he'll have to focus on.

Sometimes music is specifically designed to be body-oriented and not cerebral - dance music for example. And country, at least once upon a time, was the inheritor of various Western European folk traditions played by ppl before the advent of the wireless - is that all something that should simply be cast aside? That's not only cavalier in the extreme but extremely naive.

You just don't like country. I don't care why - that's your business. But trying to build a viable, universal intellectual reason for your dislike is a fool's errand.

what book should one read after a hard day down t'pit

I believe one starts w/ 'Sons and Lovers'.

Sometimes music is specifically designed to be body-oriented and not cerebral - dance music for example. And country, at least once upon a time, was the inheritor of various Western European folk traditions played by ppl before the advent of the wireless - is that all something that should simply be cast aside?

Folk music/traditional music from all parts of the world is generally very overrated, and may as well be overlooked. It is the intellectual musical traditions that count, not the folk/traditional ones.

so, add classism to the charges against Geir. this may be the first time i've ever sb'ed anyone, so congrats melody-man.

i've never seen the word 'is' used like that before

Can't imagine ever sb'ing someone who brings so many unintentional lolz.

Well, I am definitely classist. And music needs to be a tad good bit classist, because working class people have never had taste.

intellectual musical traditions that count, not the folk/traditional ones Well, then screw Gershwin, Smetana, Chopin, Dvorjak, Liszt, etc...

Btw, I'm not sb'ing anyone here. I'm just shocked at the callowness of your aesthetics.

I hope all of you guys arguing with Geir realize ur just the straight men in this conversation

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 27, 2011 5:45 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

If somebody doesn't say racist stuff directly, then it is wrong to interpret it as racism.

jesus christ geir what the fucking hell is wrong with you

This thread suddenly became

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSzPGrazPo

logic dictates that one should stay away from threads like this but in my 21 years on message boards THAT could well be the single most ignorant and fucking misguided sentence i have ever read

Well, then screw Gershwin, Smetana, Chopin, Dvorjak, Liszt, etc...

They were using folk traditions as a kind of spice in their music. Sometimes they would use a bit too much of it, but when they found the balance, it worked out fine because they are anyway so much better, so much more skilled, so much more clever, than those talentless folk musicians they were partly influenced by.

we have never really had a better troll, ppl

black music: from the body
white music: from the head
geir: not racist

To claim that black music is from the body and white music is from the head is extremely oversimplified. Skin colour doesn't belong in music, and Stevie Wonder made some perfectly wonderful head music in the 70s.

SHUT UP

All answers/speculation that are not from Geir are welcome...

I knew geir would ruin this thread. before he showed up I was actually learning stuff! bah

I will not shut up until you guys accept that one can consider middle class based head music to be objectively superior to folk oriented and overemotive music without being a racist.

And country music, for the record, is very much white music. But still oversimple, overbasic and basically usually without value because it isn't intellectual enough.

99 per cent of all music rooted in the American south sucks. Regardless of it being "black" or "white".

I will not shut up until you guys accept that one can consider middle class based head music to be objectively superior to folk oriented and overemotive music without being a racist.

given your comments, you're not exactly the best advocate for that argument.

geir are you having a bad day?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4548748354_ab79eb69a0.jpg

given your comments, you're not exactly the best advocate for that argument.

Well, here I started off attacking country music for being too simple and too basic, and its supporters for being dumb and ignorant redneck idiots. If you take a look at the skin colour of most country music performers, and those redneck trash idiots that listen to it, you will find that their skin colour is, indeed, rather white.

But they are still stupid and oversimplistic and need more cleverness and skills.

My birthday isn't until August, but I <3 <3 <3 you all for this lovely gift!

Geir, if you are at all typical of your country's intellectual mainstream, then i would've ended up slapping on greasepaint & started to worship Odin and burn stave churches too if i were Norwegian.

http://pineappleope.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jackson_popcorn.gif

You can be both classist and racist, dum-dum. In fact, the two generally go hand in hand. But for calling my family "dumb, ignorant redneck idiots," you can go fuck yourself, and enjoy your SB.

― still stupid and oversimplistic and needs more cleverness and skills (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 28 April 2011 09:22 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Politically, musically and culturally, the world would have been a much better place had the American south never existed at all.

http://i.imgur.com/Fvbd5.jpg

he comes from the land of Quisling, lest we forget

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHnFIaLp_ys

suicide by sb

Geir if you were any more pleased with yourself you'd disappear up your own ass.

Politically, musically and culturally, the world would have been a much better place had the American south never existed at all.

You're a professional troll, obviously. It takes skill to come up with something that actually makes me want to fly to Norway and punch the fuck out of you. I'm one of the most passive and laid back people you'll ever encounter.

not to mention that Norway is basically the Mississippi of Northern Europe, the inbred retarted so-called culture of the Nordic peoples. if it weren't for oil, Oslo would be the Tuscaloosca of the Fjords.

Yeah, it reads like self-hate.

Geir doesn't recognize body beating, only head beatings

i sold the bluegrass 45 album i had to a japanese guy today. he was thrilled. he'd never seen it. and here i thought maybe the bluegrass 45 were a national treasure in japan or something. the guy who bought it is in a blues band in japan called Juke Joint.

Yes, there are some people in the Norwegian countryside who are a bit like rednecks. I am not exactly proud of those people being from Norway.

this is a great thread

maybe you could relocate them to some camps xpost

Anyway, if the rest of the US had been more like New York, Boston, San Francisco and possibly even LA, the US might have been quite nice actually.

man ilx has really sucked lately

You're a professional troll, obviously. It takes skill to come up with something that actually makes me want to fly to Norway and punch the fuck out of you. I'm one of the most passive and laid back people you'll ever encounter.

― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 28 April 2011 00:40 (8 minutes ago)

threatening violence is p fuckin lame but then you a retard and serial geirtroll victim so

nak go away

hiphop is from NYC. be careful what you wish for.

And from LA. But I can hardly see hip-hop happening without what happened in Memphis 10-15 years earlier. :)

go to sleep geir u prince of ilm, and troll another day

guys there's no reason this thread can't defeat its evil destiny and find redemption

besides

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NAaiRYUBos

threatening violence is p fuckin lame but then you a retard

lol u fucking geir noob

Geir, prepare for your mind to be blown.

(Everyone else cover your eyes/ears)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etr7UtnUflM

hi blueski, u are also a retard and p easily and gainfully trolled but i cbf'd tonight

there is a thread on ilm showing my appresh of geir's peculiar derangement, fwiw

guys there's no reason this thread can't defeat its evil destiny and find redemption

― i've got blingees on my fisters (darraghmac), Wednesday, April 27, 2011 11:53 PM (5 minutes ago)

that would probably involve you getting over your ilm hate and posting some connaught country and western faves

i dig linda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEiH-YSj8U&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNaHdYMTmk

now it's back on me huh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps2Tgh1cnVo

No video results for “declan fucking nerney”

threatening violence is p fuckin lame but then you a retard and serial geirtroll victim so

Nice use of the "r" word. Real thoughtful of you.

I never really considered hopping a plane to Norway and tracking Geir down to give him a fat lip, fwiw. I don't have the time or the money. I just said the particular sentiment he expressed makes me want to.

You're welcome to fuck off as well, though, nakh.

i mean this is what linda started out doing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk80wvKYfv0&feature=related

thanks deems

\(^o^)/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk3sxlydr1A

kinda surprised anyone actually finds geir funny anymore. I mean all of these "jokes" are older than the crustiest vaudeville routine at this point

Mick Flavin
Born Ballinamuck, County Longford, Ireland

Yes, a black country singer. And a black gentleman named George Duke did a great keyboard job on this very proggy Zappa song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg6X2hsl52E

It's just great because they prove that music doesn't have a skin colour and that people of any race can be represented in all kinds of genres. Unlike what some people think when they have this idea of some genres being "black" and others being "white":

totally backing geir up with that last one tbf

eh i meant with the youtube i posted, i'm totally not backing geir up on the xps

there is a thread on ilm showing my appresh of geir's peculiar derangement, fwiw

sounds great...

listen to shakey, everyone. he's the voice of reason on il...wait a minute, no he isn't. what's going on around here?!

the world has gone topsy turvey! why DID linda martell start yodelling????

craic as an adjective, wow

farmer dan strictly holding up the clownish end of culchie and western

when she realised her full name was 'lindancer martell'

And to get back on topic, and also be positive about some country music, this is still a fantastically beautiful song and always will be. He was even from the American south. So there are some exceptions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmMd7xWxbX0

this thread has been like a core dump of hongro derangement. which is, um, kinda entertaining ... or like eating a pound of raw sugar.

farmer dan is merely a second rate exponent of everything richie kavanagh has mastered though

gmme a sec

"culchie and western"
About 91 results (0.13 seconds)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXjhG0TFLCM

"Unlike what some people think when they have this idea of some genres being "black" and others being "white"

geir, you have to understand, if i searched ilx i could find five zillion instances of you saying your thing about black and white genres and pretty much NOBODY else saying any such thing. you dig, mr. prefect pitch?

I am putting it in brackets because there is no such thing.

i mean you are kinda obsessed abou the idea of there being no such thing as black and white genres and you are constantly bringing that up even though nobody has said ANYTHING about there being black or white genres. just trying to be as clear as possible.

There is folk-derived music and non-folk-derived music. I definitely consider the latter to be way superior to the former, but that has nothing to do with skin colour or ethnicity. Folk-derived music is often considered to be more "real" and in some cases more "black" (unless it is country music). But it isn't. It is just less skilled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8LCYS_85Dk

ALL music is folk-derived, you dolt.

Classical music is not folk derived. Indian ragas are not folk derived. Chinese orchestral music is not folk-derived. Symphonic rock is not folk-derived. Psychedelic twee pop is not folk-derived. Soft rock is not folk-derived.

looool richie kavanagh

i can't think of a uk equivalent to this dude

jethro def the comedic equiv

http://i.imgur.com/DChSB.jpg

Psychedelic twee pop is not folk-derived.

Yeah this sounds nothing like folk music at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em4Yl8qIm9Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC0sL50jKE4

no more beer

"The Gnome" sounds more vaudeville/music hall to me.

THat is because what you know about music would fit in a thimble. A very, very small thimble.

English folk music would be more like reels and jigs and so on. Fairport Convention were folk-derived. But also not very twee nor psychedelic.

nah english folk is softly strummed lutes innit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8

if there isnt a "hey nonny ho" in it it is not english folk music.

there are goddamn rules about these things people

geir knows about music. it's just that 99% of what he says related to it has always been remarkably obstinately deranged for some reason.

and those dudes were all middle class or better iirc

Actually there is a lot of influence from Medieval instrumental music in the music of Genesis. But I see it as a closer relation to classical than to folk.

cool

who are your favourite medieval intstrumental composers?

And "Brave Sir Robin" is hilarious, has always been hilarious and will always be hilarious. :) But the world may dispute exactly how historically correct it is. :)

that bluegrass 45 guy has a really cool mandolin

just fyi I am cracking the fuck up over here

http://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/pride_charley.jpg

"Wait a second everybody, Geir is here, and we need to learn about ourselves."

This thread makes my head hurt.

i know this is redundant at this late stage, but still:

And basically - this is also my problem with country music. Too simple, too down to earth, to "man on the street". Good music shouldn't be like that.

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 22:43 (Yesterday)

A song that doesn't work as a football chant is not worthy of coverage.

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 16 April 2011 17:33 (1 week ago)

Scotland hasn't really been covered, but I don't know a single older person who doesn't have Jim Reeves, Slim Whitman, Patsy Cline etc. records kicking about.

http://www.thespacebar.co.uk/ebayscans/49929.jpg

Y'all been trolled by a smooth Geirminal

x-post

Yeah, Hogmanay comedy shows are probably still making Sydney Devine jokes every year.

When I was a kid I had relatives who used to own record shops in Scotland (when there were still plenty of independents). They were out of the centre of town, in fairly working class areas. They sold chart pop but their bread and butter, especially as far as albums was concerned, was C & W. Hank Snow, Charlie Pride, Patsy Cline, Jim Reeves. Not because it was a C & W specialist retailer but because that's what sold.

And that may be the real issue. C & W sold massively in the UK, but to the kind of folk that hipsters and critics didn't want to be like. There was plenty of listening to C & W, but very little public discourse about listening to C & W.

I have given this all of ten seconds thought so this might be way off the mark, but would it be true to say that at some point in the Eighties (or earlier?), the likes of Bruce Springsteen and John Cougar Mellencamp and maybe Bon Jovi and things like that took the place of c&w in the European psyche as music that best represented the honest working man in America and all the romantic notions that we might attach to such a figure, and country's redundancy from that point of view was compacted by it's association with some of the cornier singers who older generations preferred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA7BqD8XLEA

^ anyhow, best UK 'country' song?

Everybody involved in this thread should SB themselves, myself included. Is Geir, if it even is him, going through some sort of life crisis?

musician, sb thyself

geir seemed to be cursing more than usual

It was Geir's Greatest Hits, only it was the Rhino boxed set with all the hits instead of the watered down K-Tel version.

This is possibly the finest Geir-goes-crazy thread of all time, you all need more cleverness and skills.

^^^ OTM

Nah, you expect racism from Geir but not class hatred, I don't think he's covered that before

If a Geir rant can't be used as a football chant it's not worthy of coverage

http://www.hiphopgalaxy.com/IMG/skillz_image.jpg

Middle or upper class people are never racists.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/61/Diana_and_Unity_Mitford_salute.jpg

"Oh I say, Diana, who could that fellow be referring to?"

"Jolly Spiffing, Unity"

For my (English) parent's generation America was a great thing, Americana to be devoured from the blues and Elvis onward. For this generation... less...so. My folk's are still well into country music... even to the extent of going to Dollywood (!) They still go to gigs in the UK by the likes of Tom Pacheco etc.

dollywood rules

And basically - this is also my problem with country music. Too simple, too down to earth, to "man on the street". Good music shouldn't be like that.

I know this is trollfeeding but like every pop musician everywhere knows that the biggest badasses from a technical standpoint are country musicians, reggae musicians, and jazz musicians, though jazz guys are sort of out in their own world. but the dudes from Toto & Asia, for example, who you mentioned upthread, would be the first to tell you that none of them are players of the caliber of a Nashville session cat. The musicianship in Kingston or Nashville on any given day is the highest musicianship you're likely to find outside of Julliard or Berklee - those guys can play anything brilliantly in one take without needing direction & can give you five different & equally brilliant looks in five consecutive takes - having seen it in action (watching Horsemouth Wallace do drum takes & working with a Nashville session dude) I can attest to the following: anybody who talks any shit about country and/or reggae musicians is completely ignorant.

too much suit and production going on here, but gotta be honest i'm feeling the tune

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGlbW851D6c

I woke up very early this morning, just in time to catch this (it must be said that Marty Stuart has a remarkable haircut):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcJ80pKqsA0

I would like to know more about the current global situation of "country music"

is yr average young-person-on-the-street in london/paris/etc more likely to recognize a photograph of taylor swift, or of kanye west

london/paris/cairo/berlin/omaha/etc

*as groundwork for future studies in this field, to fix the extent of garth brooks reverse-migration in the early 90s

my daughter's well into Taylor and not really bothered about Kanye but i wd've thought that Taylor Swift has crossed over far enough to be anomalous re: Country as a genre

Tons of boots-wearing country bands in Oslo, fwiw. I don't really think that's a recent development, though. However, in recent years a lot of people who might otherwise have ended up as typical indie-kids, hipsters, whatever, have gravitated towards American trad. music. And I don't think it's a pose or a trend, really. I frequent these quarters myself.

Townes Van Zandt got a tribute record a few years back, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqwTPh61C7E

They just don't have their own country traditions over there, though. I mean, Irish country music is analogous to something like The Chieftains.

― Johnny Fever

can't remember did we refute this at the time but it's about 100% incorrect tbh

Yeah, that was a weird statement. Was this thread the end of Geir? Has he ever been back? He appeared to have finally lost it on this thread.

idk iirc i'd seen him worse but tbh ppl got reeeal mad this time for somewhat less than usual provocation i thought (lost in the mists of time tbf so pinch of salt there) and he reacted more than usual

is there a scots tradition of C&W btw?

i have no interest in hearing any obv but am curious to see how closely it mirrors our scene and the clear break btwn trad/C&W as seen here

I think it's almost identical!

oh yes

sydney devine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inVqMfzmkAA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGX9dBzRg58

Tom still has nightmares about Fran and Anna

yeah i figured

saw a couple of shots of one of the mulls last night, could have been home in every way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsi8u9h-LpM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh4rJaXmF7I

the scots and irish all grew up on john wayne films it seems

no fucking examples i said

Don't think this hasn't been mentioned yet:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xOcdlFOsr4s/S9QNa5tXSPI/AAAAAAAACTE/smCvkjrqB1U/s1600/oprygovan%20%281024x768%29.jpg

Sydney's signature tune https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9-X2BQioSI

Scandinavia also has a lot of "Dance Hall"-bands, originally a Swedish concept, I think. Popular primarily with older people, and in rural areas. Some of it sounds like really, really bad country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wsdRwylUu4

Less country, more dance hall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_qVUCYkN0

It was interesting to hear the Proper farewell To Ireland box after familiarity with more popular bits of country and rock'n'roll and hear where certain elements come from. & most of that is 1st and 2nd generation Irish so hasn't had a chance to morph into something else like rural hillbilly and other regional forms had after a few generations. & that would be more the source of Irish music into the roots of country I would assume though probably find with a bit of research that the influence & interplay with both more modern forms of Irish/Scottish/other national forms was more complex.
Just thinking that a lot of folk and blues songs had roots in tunes actually written for stage performances/musicals that had become pretty much folk through popularity of playing. & after several years people forgetting that the source was originally more artificial. That is to say music written specifically for stage performance becoming leaked and brought into almost a folk canon by being played by people who weren't referring back to sheet music and possibly weren't aware of such a thing existing.
Also wondering what the crossover between players in bands that had been playing Irish music and those later playing country etc. In the case of the bands on Farewell To Ireland set at the time, the 20s and 30s those recorded seemed to consist to a great degree of people in Police and I think Fire Brigade bands. But I'd wonder about people being able to go professional which at the time didn't seem to be as yet an option but might become one as recording became more popular and then being the people being brought in to back early country/western artists. Not really sure where the pool of players for country music came from in the early days.
Also that in reading the Hank Williams book that I'm currently reading there is a distinction being made between country players & western players. Country is more rural, like fresh off the farm whereas Western is more sophisticated. & there was a major move of people from very rural areas towards living in local towns in the early years of teh 20th century, maybe more after WW1 or the depression, leaving more urbanised people looking down on them. I think you seee examples of this in cartoons/films from the era where you do get characters introduced as out and out hicks/country bumpkins.

Which in short was my rumination on the idea that country in Ireland was represented by bands like The Chieftains. Very much the wrong direction of influence I would think.
& I am aware of artists like Big Tom and several others who do represent what Country & Irish actually means. Very maudlin side of country.

Not bad for my fluey head, grammar not perfect.

Interesting to note that people like Blixa Bargeld of Einsturzende Neubauten are major country fans. Not sure what the story is on Country-rock bands elsewhere in Europe. I think the Rockingbirds were quite popular when they were around in the mid 80s. & there have been waves of country/Western related bands in the UK pretty much ever since the style codified.

sorry there should have been a break after the sentence about Blixa. I heard he was studying pedal steel guitar a few years ago.

Before the Irish start getting the credit for everything, as usual, I don't think the Irish settlers in those places in the US where C+W developed were very Irish.

It just happened that the early recordings set I had was Irish, early 20th century. There are other bits in the make up of the musics like German and other folk musics, hymns etc. But there are recognisable elements you hear in bits of that music that you do hear in later c&w and rock'n'roll.

Also that the thought was triggered by the reference to the Chieftains not somebody like Ougenweide or Malicorne or Battlefield band or whoever.

xpost tell me more!!

tangential to thread subject, I was in Omagh earlier this year for the bluegrass festival (which is apparently the largest outside N.A.?)—quite surprised, then amused, to see Irish blokes dressed up as Confederate soldiers (who were, I take it, no less impressed to meet REAL LIVE AMERICAN SOUTHERNERS)—I also became #1 superfan of a shit-hot band of siblings who looked to be barely secondary-school-aged; asked the youngest how an irish kid gets into bluegrass music and she replied "well, our mum's been bringing everyone to the festival since before I was born, so..."

(bluegrass music, in case anyone's confused about it, is not actually 'traditional' here or anywhere else, but the WW2-era result of jazz influence on appalachian string bands... frequently appears alongside 'celtic' on radio programs & in record stores, tho)

to see Irish blokes dressed up as Confederate soldiers

Well you were in Ulster after all

xpost tell me more!!

Well, you know how in the US there's the Irish and the Scotch-Irish? And everybody seems fine with the Irish, 'cos they're all cute and twinkly and put-upon and oppressed, while the Scotch-Irish are all sort of grumpy and intense and rebarbative (a bit like Van Morrison)...

are they the same as ulster-scots tom? i'm guessing so but i don't want to ignore a vital splinter section anywhere

What, a bunch of headbangers from Ayrshire? Probably.

are they the same as ulster-scots tom? i'm guessing so but i don't want to ignore a vital splinter section anywhere

― Victims’ tears deter rodent paedophiles (darraghmac), Thursday, October 3, 2013 8:43 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes. and most of appalachia was settled by these folks

A+ classic batshit Geirsplaining itt

yeah I had totally forgotten about it. was this his last tour-de-geir?

he's been around

bernard was the bluegrass festival held in the Ulster American Folk Park by any chance?

https://www.nmni.com/uafp

Omagh, so I would imagine so

extra jealous if so, have long had a dream of seeing exactly how dour that place is one day

yeah it was in the Folk Park. not sure how it's "dour" tho? tbqh (unless you meant "dire", in which case

mostl y I appreciated the the signage (comically different from our own)

i dunno bernard me and my wife used to drive past the park on the regularly and we built up a picture in our heads of this tribute to grim hard-working Prods pioneering their way cabin by cabin for Jesus across Americay

like "folk art as expression of know yr place under God" kinda thing

oh wait I found my notebook from that day of our* trip!!! enjoy y'all:

A BILLBOARD:
don't get caught out by
out-of-date food!!

Radio 3 announcer
rolling, with obvious relish,
the R in 'Requiem'

Lonesome River Band:

"she always knew I'd
never change / Like i knew
she'd never stay"

Small boy in 'ULSTER RUGBY'
shirt holding head & crying

(sign above large stage,
Bluegrass festival)

OMAGH DISTRICT COUNCIL
Leading...
Delivering.....
Excelling........

* = me, my father, & his father before him

also recorded in my notebook: Stirling Castle tour notes; astonishment upon hearing new Rod Stewart single "Brighton Beach" at breakfast one morning; "fresh dulse = ??"

; idea for a TV show called "(The?) Castlecats"

ok "The Castlecats" sounds awesome

Duilsk is where we eat dried seaweed.

I dont know about europeans but I can say from personal experience that Mexicans love country music. The gambler might be the top song in a non spanish language that every mexican knows by heart.

I don't know why that makes me happy, but it does.

I was obvs talking out of my ass when I said The Chieftains were Ireland's country music. Sorry, everybody.

Probably cos I have a headful of cold I neglected to point out that there was a major influx of Irish people to America in the middle of the 19th Century escaping the 'famine'. Meant that there were other irish traditions entering play than Irish scots' music.
Not sure about distribution of where they headed to settle. Have heard that there were a large number fighting on the confederate side at least partially because freed blacks would have been going for the same niche in society in terms of work that they were trying to carve out for themselves.

Famine gets quotation marks since the idea that there was a famine is a misnomer, during that time landlords still managed to export large amounts of grain.

here now there was a famine and leave it at that or take it to the brits thread and lets really kick off

hey it's not really a famine if your colonial masters have got food

Probably cos I have a headful of cold I neglected to point out that there was a major influx of Irish people to America in the middle of the 19th Century escaping the 'famine'. Meant that there were other irish traditions entering play than Irish scots' music.

Well, true, but they weren't they mostly in the North? I actually don't know though, I just assume the South isn't really the place to be celebrating St Paddy's Day.

The early Ulster immigrants and their descendants at first usually referred to themselves simply as "Irish," without the qualifier "Scotch." It was not until more than a century later, following the surge in Irish immigration after the Great Irish Famine of the 1840s, that the descendants of the Protestant Irish began to refer to themselves as "Scotch-Irish" to distinguish them from the predominantly Catholic, and largely destitute, wave of immigrants from Ireland in that era.[14] The two groups had little initial interaction in America, as the 18th century Ulster immigrants were predominantly Protestant and had become settled largely in upland regions of the American interior, while the huge wave of 19th-century Catholic immigrant families settled primarily in the Northeast and Midwest port cities such as Boston, New York, or Chicago. However, beginning in the early 19th century, many Irish migrated individually to the interior for work on large-scale infrastructure projects such as canals and, later in the century, railroads

The Ulster Irish migrants from the first wave were mainly originally Hugenots iirc that were brought to Ireland for farming, so there's a Low Countries source of origin really rather than an Irish one.

Now it's getting even more complicated

FWIW I don't think there's a great deal of awareness of contemporary mainstream country here in the UK. When I tell people (music enthusiasts or generalists) I am interested in country, 99% of the time they say something like "oh Dolly Parton and stuff yeah?". Taylor Swift's pretty well known, past that I don't think anyone has much of a profile (a few really switched-on people will have a sense of Toby Keith as the dude who was all "put a boot in your ass it's the American way" but not many of those would have heard the record).

That's not to say there's no following for contemporary stuff - it's a big global pop music and that spreads through the usual channels of Vimeo and so on, people get to hear stuff, people like stuff. Kacey Musgraves's audience (maybe 300 people)at the Bush Hall the other month was mostly an enthusiastic and young pop crowd, and she's booked to play the (2000-ish?) Shepherds Bush Empire this month. Think she's getting some love as the next thing to listen to if you're into Taylor.

Nevertheless, it's my view that "country" as a concept still means as steel guitars and rhinestones to the massive majority over here, and much of what's in the country chart just wouldn't code "country" to British ears (if Jon Bon Jovi has a hit single here with a song that's charted Country in the US (this may have happened for all I know), virtually no-one would recognise that sound as country music. The fact that Lionel Ritchie gets on the country charts is met with genuine surprise and sometimes incomprehension!

Ronan Keating, bless his boring cotton socks, had some hits some years back covering the more ballady end of the country charts in pretty similar versions. Again, those records just wouldn't code as country over here as far as I can tell.

Please note: the above may be completely wrong in repect of under-25s, I don't know any of them.

AN ERITH singer is ‘on cloud nine’ after winning a national competition for the second year running.

Wayne Jacobs, Riverdale Road, has scooped the National UK Country Music Award again after getting the top gong last year.

The 51-year-old discovered he had won with song I Want my Daddy on Saturday (September 7) at the ceremony in Derby.

Mr Jacobs wrote the hit based on a true story about a firefighter who was hit by a truck on a highway in Kentucky.

strange last words for a 51 yr old firefighter but im not gonna judge we'll all be there or thereabouts someday and are like to say something as bizarre in such circumstances i'm sure

ctrl-f Mumford gives me no hits on this thread, so I'll just say that there are reasons we try to keep non-Americans away from banjos.

(not that Americans are all that reliable with them either)

Billy Connolly was damn handy on a banjo. My dad saw his and Gerry Rafferty's folk act The Humblebums many a time

Garthmania hits Ireland

Country music singer Garth Brooks starts a world tour this July with five sold-out concerts at Croke Park. That's 400,000 tickets - or nearly one for every 10 Irish citizens. Why does Ireland love Garth so much, asks comedian Colm O'Regan?