ZEN ARCADE poll

Oh man, this is hard. Everyone's gonna have a different favourite here! Can't we just pick a favourite side? Mine's side B.

This record makes me curse Spot's friggin ineptitude the most

May vote for "Reoccurring Dreams"; it's a shame they never really went back to that well.

I could give you a different answer every day until the poll ends! Right this second as I'm eating breakfast it's "What's Going On?"

"i prefer New Day Rising and Flip Yr Wig to this . . ."

"This record makes me curse Spot's friggin ineptitude the most"

Both of you: get off of the planet Earth NOW.

I like the record, it just sounds boxy and weak like most of Spot's work.

1. "Newest Industry," 2. "Something I Learned Today." Much that I don't like.

turn on the news

I like the record, it just sounds boxy and weak like most of Spot's work.

The correct term is 'gelatinous', and yes it's an acquired taste, but many of his productions I'm not sure I could imagine a different way.

It's Indecision Time: yes, it's the Husker Du "Zen Arcade" POLL

Gotta Make Polls for the Polls I Make - ILM HUSKER DU POLL RESULTS

spot's production works for me here, voted 'what's going on' since it seemed crazy it only got one vote the last time this album was polled

I think the correct terms are 'cheap' and 'rushed' personally

I really love this album and will find it hard to pick a favourite but MaresNest OTM about the production. "Chartered Trips" is my first impulse.

I was the "What's Going On" vote, and still feel that way. Back when the album came out, I was all about side 3, over time it's become side 2. I don't really have a problem with the production except in the sense that the album only sounds good as it was intended to be played: loud, not on headphones.

I've said all I need to say about this album, but one vote for tooth fairy + princess because pretty sure no one else will vote for it and i love it

zen arcade rehearsal sessions > zen arcade

the sound is thicker imo

I toed the CT line, but LL displaying her usual sharpness of mind for selecting Tooth Fairy, which feels like the heart of the album for me

Can kind of appreciate listening to the album in one go, but In terms of picking out individual songs for personal enjoyment I can't do that anymore

Production is appalling

Absolutely no clarity at all to a song as great as Chartered Trips

I know needs must but having the same guy do all these different recordings for all these very different bands on the same label is completely nuts

All you Spot haters never heard the vinyl, right?

Anyway, I sort of have to struggle with what I think is the best song vs. what is the dramaturgical climax of the album, and even then I end up with 2 songs v. 3 songs.

I haven't, you're right. Does it sound very different?

I haven't spent much time with SST cds because the ones I've heard are poorly mastered and the musicians rant and rave about the poor quality, but I assume so.

yeah the difference between Huskers vinyl and CD/digital is night and day. seriously, the difference is HUGE - zen arcade still sounds claustrophobic on vinyl but the sound is massive and full of the low end punch missing from the digital transfer. same with all the other records

Absence of low end punch is probably the biggest problem imo. Hm, I'll see if I can find it on vinyl. I've still never heard Evol and Sister on vinyl either, hm.

I guess those were mastered by Geffen though.

I have Evol on vinyl and used to have the CD and there's not a whole lot of difference really, apart from the CD having the bonus track Bubblegum but I have that on the 12" anyway, and the vinyl has a locked groove at the end of Xpressway.

There is this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAnFu1qRwXY

so tough to choose, but gonna say Pink Turns To Blue

i'm going to go with I'll Never Forget You, just cause it's so perfectly uninhibited, capturing the all-systems-go urgency and raw honesty of a very specific moment in time.

I'll Never Forget You catapults itself and scrounges momentum in the most leaden, tortured way; i think it's an astonishing song.

"scrounges momentum" <- that it a good phrase for that song

yeah, the cutthroat loose wires of the song seem totally genuine, like a dilation of reflex hysterics, amassing hydra heads by the second. hard to imagine all that anguish and bad blood being enacted on cue.

I love how, in the chorus, his yell seems entirely out of time with the gallop of the band, and yet still in sync with it somehow.

totally

Haven't listened to this album in forever. Going from memory, I'd go for "Somewhere" but I'm gonna give it a fresh spin before voting.

"Indecision time" sums it up pretty well here. Think i'll abstain.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

The production talk is crazy to me. It may come down to a matter of taste, but I'm curious if there are any fans of hardcore or lo-fi punk among the haters. I mean, it takes acclimatizing to the whole aesthetic--it did for me at the time. But this is miles better than most production from the period, especially compared to what came after, not just for Husker but all rock production circa '85-'86. I find Candy Apple Grey unlistenable, and I LIKE those songs.

It's not crazy talk, Husker Du had a massive sound and the albums sound like complete shit.

Don't want to give it all this 'ahead of their time' but in terms of being able to capture the entire scope of the band the band were let down horrifically.

If only they formed in 1989 rather than 79.

So they could have sounded like Doolittle?

There is plenty of decent rock production in the mid 80s, at least in terms of bringing out detail - there is so much detail in HD that is simply lost in those mid 80s albums.

Suppose blame should be apportioned to the band as well for not finding a decent producer after Spot/SST.

Doolittle? Did they release Zen Arcade in 1979? Im saying give them a few years, they would have had a huge sound had they been around in the early/mid 90s.

PRIDE

I'd like to see some of you go into a very rudimentary mid-80s studio with a bunch of LSD circa '85 and come out with Zen Arcade done in like 72 hours. The feat is like filming Apocalypse Now with a Super 8 over a three day weekend.

It needs to be re-mastered sure as the CD has always kinda sucked compared to the original vinyl, but some of this bitchin' is like saying those Charlie Patton recordings would sound so much better if it didn't sound so scratchy. Be happy they made it happen with what they had.

*crystal meth, not LSD

bob mould said in his book they put meth in their coffee before getting to work

I mean, it takes acclimatizing to the whole aesthetic--it did for me at the time. But this is miles better than most production from the period, especially compared to what came after, not just for Husker but all rock production circa '85-'86. I find Candy Apple Grey unlistenable, and I LIKE those songs.

This is SO OTM. The snare drums on Candy Apple Grey sound like cymbals, argh!

earlnash otm.

have always felt zen arcade sounds great.

Pink Turns to Blue over Reoccurring Dreams

Yeah, Pink Turns To Blue probs my favourite track on the album.

Pink Turns to Blue was my no. 1 pick in the Husker Du poll ... But as a track representative of the whole album, I think it's hard to beat Reoccurring Dreams.

That's how I voted in the end.

Tough call for me between "Somewhere" and "What's Going On."

I don't really have a problem with the production except in the sense that the album only sounds good as it was intended to be played: loud, not on headphones.

― dlp9001, Saturday, May 25, 2013 12:21 PM (2 months ago)

...zen arcade still sounds claustrophobic on vinyl but the sound is massive and full of the low end punch missing from the digital transfer. same with all the other records

― i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Sunday, May 26, 2013 3:59 PM (2 months ago)

^ damn straight. new day rising goes overboard with the mindrange-happy tinfoil shrillness, and i'd never single out zen arcade's production for special praise, but it's nowhere near as bad as claimed upthread. i haven't spent much time with the CD, but the vinyl sounds fine. LOUD. that gets said about and even on a lot of albums, so it's easy to ignore, but in this case it's crucial.

not saying the sound doesn't take some getting used to, but nowhere near so much as new day, which i'd always eq the shit out of when making mix tapes.

^ not to disparage NDR

lot of great songs on here, but i'm happy with having voted for "turn on the news". such a sinus-clearing blast, listened to it a million times way back when and still get it stuck in my head every now and then.

turn on the news

high school hippie poet lyrics kinda ruin "turn on the news" for me

I like "pride" cuz it sounds like mould ripped a hole in his gullet and started screaming thru the wound

Can anyone point me at a blog or w/e wherein I can hear a vinyl rip of ZA? I've literally never heard the vinyl, had the cassette as a kid and the cd as a grown up. (Actually I think I had every SST record strictly on cassette with the odd exception of In My Head)

Oh and huevos and zoogz. Otherwise I was an SST tape purist v

'Pink Turns to Blue' was my favourite when I first heard this but now I'm torn between the first two tracks.

high school hippie poet lyrics kinda ruin "turn on the news" for me

"if there's one thing that i can't explain, is why the world has to have so much pain"

i get that, but for some reason, i'm more inclined to smile than wince, especially at this remove. hart's telling it like it is, man, but the self-serious goofiness never seems oppressive. by the time he gets to "keeps us away from who we should be loving SO TURN ON!", the words don't matter anymore. it's all about the last 3 minutes anyway.

And the super chuggy part! That song rules.

oh the chuggy part. Changed my friggin life.

The Zen Arcade outtake boot that float around is worth seeking out- I think ZA is their best production job, and the outtakes without vocals really get the weird power across.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

super chuggy ft(almost)w!

...reportedly a devil worshipper...

The first time I listened to this album I was completely transported and blown away. REALLY connected with it. Never had that feeling on subsequent listenings though. I still like it, but I'm bummed it never struck me as deeply as it did the first time around.

The album cover is forever great and perfect though.

A great album I never listen to often enough, not as much as CAG or FYW at any rate.

Confession time: I've been a fan of Zen Arcade for a decade and a half, but have yet to listen to a single other Husker Du record.

whatever, albums sound like shit, in a way that a 14 year old me was impressed in way with, but right now and the future find myself not bothering to back to.

go back to.

youtube-ing individual songs off albums seems to the be the way ahead

I fucking despise Spot btw, and hope he reads this

What I really mean is this - I'm not someone who ever thinks about production in the way that some would, but the 'production' on those albums, especially when you're considering the relative accessibility of the material contained within, is so frustratingly distracting that it makes me want to turn the album off, or at least never play these albums right the way through.

btw Mould and Hart should both be locked up for allowing the two major label albums to sound as thin as they do.

Reading some stuff about this band and what they 'turned down' makes me wonder

Records sound like what they sound like.

there must be a way of expressing your distaste for the 'poor production' of these albums without sounding like such a spoiled douche. there simply must. (xp)

agree tho that the key flaw in the Huskers' albums is that they shd've sounded like Pyromania

So less Spot, more Mutt?

thanking u

"So less Spot, more Mutt?"

I suppose if you 'did' have Zen Arcade recorded like Highway to Hell, it would probably sound something like In Utero. Huge guitars, big room sounding drums with quite a bit of overdubs on the vocals in the choruses.

Don't forget 'all the mistakes edited out because it was cut up chord by chord and reassembled like on a tracker or something'.

there must be a way of expressing your distaste for the 'poor production' of these albums without sounding like such a spoiled douche. there simply must.

Not spoiled, just exasperated given the fact that so many people are talking about this band 25 years later, have huge critical standing and 'influence', you turn people onto the band and they get the quality of the songwriting but are irritated with the production (or can't make it through an album) - I mean, it's 2013. The legacy of this band in and out of the studio is such a mess, with so much good stuff in the middle of it all. And it seems so easily rectified.

you have the same problem with son house?

So it's 30 years on and I wrote a little something...

http://thequietus.com/articles/16153-husker-du-zen-arcade-review

Great piece. Also,

not even the same year, the same month

Were there other pieces of art in general about young men leaving home, musical and otherwise?

Quadrophenia, which (iirc) RS name-checked in its ZA review.

Rather. Were there any quite like this at this time, with all the silences and elisions as important as the blunt directness? Precious few, and for its time, perhaps nothing else.

OTM.

I think Zen Arcade sounds ok the way it is. I hadn't before heard that "private remaster" dlp posted upthread. It was nice, heard a few things I hadn't noticed, but I still prefer the beefy static version that was originally released.

Now, New Day Rising, on the other hand....

great piece, ned.

I still prefer the beefy static version

<3 the sound of beefy static <3
happy birthday zen arcade!

don't wake up don't wake up don't wake up WAKE UP

This anniversary happens to fall during a week when I am deeply obsessively passionately immersed in Meat Puppets '84-'86 (the unjustly neglected third of the holy SST trinity IMO) so I am finding it hard to change gears and wanna listen to huskers tbrr

huskers, pups, minutemen, its all gooooood

I WILL
NEVER
FORGET
YOU

I WAS TALKING
WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN LISTENING

Don't worry.

Don't worry.

DON'T WORRY.

No more dope and too much rope she's lying on the bed

Re-discovering 'Recurring Dreams'. What a piece!

does anyone know if there's a story behind the album title?

I'll Never Forget You catapults itself and scrounges momentum in the most leaden, tortured way; i think it's an astonishing song.

― charlie h, Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:11 AM (five years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

Standing by the sea atm

I guess subsequent production styles tainted everyone, but I distinctly remember putting on Husker Du circa 1985 and thinking "yes! finally a band with the right amount of distortion and chaos." It sounded brutal at the time, not tinny. 100% of my listening was on LP or home dubbed cassette, though.

I thought the productions sounded great up to New Day Rising, it was after that it went tits up when they tried to get clever. Imagine Zen Arcade produced like a Sugar album, ugh

not sure how I voted originally but yeah Standing By The Sea is my current fave, What's Going On a close second

Let me offer my own ranking

woah - chartered trips and broken home are two of my favourites on there. and i've always though Turn On The News was a clunker!

I used to hate "Turn on the News"--you might be the first person I've found who shares that opinion. Haven't heard it in years (decades), so I gave some of it a listen on YouTube. That first line makes me wince as much as ever ("If there's one thing that I can't explain/Is why the world has to have so much pain"), and it still sounds pretty bombastic. I think it may be the model for School of Rock's "Step Off," or at least the chorus is.

"Pride" is sandwiched between "Beyond the Threshold" and "I'll Never Forget You" -- such a juggernaut of a section.

they may have made this on inhuman quantities of speed but it's a real stoner album. i used to think the sound sucked but it's actually perfect, mould wouldn't get this crystalline balance again until sugar (where it both works and sounds good)

Hat tip - that's a great take. This release is so great. Always has been.

I loved the sound of metal circus, zen arcade, eight miles high. and new day rising

flip your wig sounds awful glad we agree