Rolling STL - HOU 2004 NLCS Thread

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the redbirds vs. the astronauts

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Cards in 6. Astros need the Cards' starters to shit the bed and/or take the scenic route to 5-6 innings of work to get to the bullpen. They also need Brandon Backe to keep applying the El Duque clear to his pitching arm.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Cards in 5. If the Cards get half the scoring chances the Braves had it could be a pretty boring series.

― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Cards in 6 if not 5. I think anything else means an automatic World Series title for the AL contender.

(Btw, is Petitte going to be healthy for the NLCS?)

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you guys nuts? Houston is really good! Their big four boppers compare can match up to St. Louis's. Does everyone REALLY think the Cards pitching is THAT superior?

Runs scored in Houston's 5 playoff games: 9, 2, 8, 5, 12

I'll take Houston in 7.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 03:14 (twenty-one years ago)

eh, strike that "compare"

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Astros in 7. If they can split the first two in St. Louis, they'll be in an excellent position coming home.

BBT: Pettitte is out, not coming back this year.

― boldbury (boldbury), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sticking to my prediction from the original playoffs thread -- Cards in 6. Houston a) doesn't have home-field advantage, b) their rotation is all messed up with Oswalt and Clemens both pitching on three days rest in games 4 and 5, c) Cards offense is performing just as well as the Astros' right now, d) Garner v LaRussa, based on what we've seen so far in the playoffs, is a managing mismatch.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Cards in 6. Berkman has the edge on Walker, Beltran at the moment is doing better than Edmonds, Pujols and Rolen smoke Bags and Biggio.

Also, the fact is Clemens and Oswalt are gonna be burned out.

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the cards SP is finally going to slip a bit, but i'm also sticking w/ cards in 6.

― John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

There are plenty of reasons for Cards fans to be nervous. No Carpenter. Rolen hasn't hit at all since coming back. Edmonds has been cold. Clemens owned the Cardinals this year. Lidge means they pretty much have to be tied or winning games by the 8th.

On the plus side, the Cards formula of success most the year has been 1) pitching contains the other team to around 4 runs
2)some combination of Womack/Walker/Rolen/Edmonds/Renteria comes up big. And with all of them being around .300 hitters, the odds are pretty good.
3) Pujols is Pujols.

Cards in 6. And I'm guessing there'll be a couple blow outs on both sides.

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Cards in six strikes me as about right.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

It's gonna be a sweep. Either Houston or St. Louis (I'm leaning STL), but it'll be a sweep.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

pitching matchup for game 1 appears to be pete munro v woody williams.

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"Also, the fact is Clemens and Oswalt are gonna be burned out."

Maybe.

Oswalt looked pretty good and his curve definitely had some movement, until the 5th when he gave up those two solo homers. Clemens won a game and pitched well enough to win a second coming off the flu.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Now that the Braves are out, it's Indifference in a sweep for me. But if I have to pick, I'll say St. Louis in 6.

― William Crump (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

What bnw said, except Astros in 6.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

backe is starting for HOU, not munro.

― maura (maura), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 03:32 (twenty-one years ago)

What is MLB doing putting BOTH games on at 8 tonight, with the debate no less? I want Selig on Rivera's fence.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Which game gets the main Fox nod? Let me take a guess...

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

It's "what America wants". God forbid Fox should expend some effort in trying to interest folks in baseball players & teams outside of the major markets - CLEARLY it's better for the game to be dependant on the success of Boston & New York than to even entertain thoughts of people getting interested in baseball THE GAME.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

omg remember boston vs new york last year?!?! that was crazy!!!! remember which one won the Series?!?! Neither!

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

(just my imitation of the media over the next week)

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

ahahaha. so true.

putting the sox-yanks game as the main game in every market outside of st louis/houston is totally dumb, not to mention ignorant of the many cardinals fans who live outside the st louis area and grew up listening to baseball on that giant clear-channel (the spectrum not the company, although who knows it might be pwn3d by them by now) station in st louis. ah, well, what do you expect from fox.

― maura (maura), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Supposedly Joe Buck himself said last night that Cardinals fans would understand not having their game being the main event tonight; were the strings visible as he said this?

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

We need some photos re: the location of McCarver's hand during that statement.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe Tim was channelling Barnard Hughes from "Midnight Cowboy" at the time: "Get on your knees before Fox HQ, Joe Buck!!!"

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Slam-a-lamma-ding-DONG!

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

In Chicago, it's Astros/Cards on Fox 32, with Yanks/BoSox relegated to FSN.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

George Steinbrenner just wrote a postdated check to Carlos Beltran.

The amount was left blank.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Holy shit did Berkman muff that one!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

POO-HOLES!!! 2-2 game.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

How thankful is Houston that they didn't unload Beltran??

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus. x-post. I just switched over to the Yankees/Sox for a second.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

This is a tough night...plus I'm going to devote 90 minutes to the debate downstairs while running upstairs to check on both games. It's nuts!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I know it was mentioned before, but MLB is just LAME for airing both these games at the same time. Think the NFL would let that shit slide?

That said, the worst crime is that I'm stuck at work for the next hour and a half.

― mattbot (mattbot), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

At least they are broadcasting the other game on cable. I didn't even know that until BBT posted it! And yeah, this would be a good night to go to a sports bar but for the debate.

I'm thinking of listening to the debate on the radio, and leaving the game on TV with the sound down. But we'll see.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

For whatever reason, on DirecTV it shows both FSN and Fox with the Astros/Cards game, but I knew there was no way they wouldn't squeeze the Yankees game on somewhere.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Something to watch here: Brandon Backe for the Astros and his first career start on 3 days rest. It took him 28 pitches to get his first 3 outs. Williams doesn't look so great either, but at least he's pitching on his scheduled spot in the rotation.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Scooter!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh man, Backe is starting on short rest also? I had no idea. If Backe and Munro are the Game 1 and Game 2 starters regardless, what possible benefit is there to pitching Backe on short rest in Game 1 instead of a rested Munro? "Setting the tone?"

― mattbot (mattbot), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Well he did strike out STL's #7-8 and got #9 to 1st pitch fly out. He's at 43 pitches after 2. I imagine his pitch count is probably around 70-80.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm back!

Short debate summary: gEorGiE is on happy pills tonight, the moderator was grilling Kerry and serving up softballs for his golf buddy.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Cardinals offense is getting it together at last, and the Astros' pen is shaky.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, if Pujols don't get you, then Rolen might. If Rolen don't get you, Edmonds will.

10-4 Redbirds.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

It's just a matter of time with that lineup.

Qualls is a rookie. Harville might as well be a rookie (

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Berkman makes it interesting with a 2-run blast in the 8th...but really, is the Cards' pen bad enough to blow a 6-run lead?

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Lead down to 3! (With 1 out left.)

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Izzy saves it. Game 1 to the Cards.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:33 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, don't doubt it, suckas

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If Backe and Munro are the Game 1 and Game 2 starters regardless, what possible benefit is there to pitching Backe on short rest in Game 1 instead of a rested Munro? "Setting the tone?"

I think the rationale was that if you throw Backe tonight, then he would be available for Game 5 on full rest after having Clemens and Oswalt go on full rest in Games 3 and 4.

Personally, I would flip-flop Clemens and Oswalt. With the day off on Friday, Oswalt would still be going on full rest in game 3 on Saturday and Clemens gets an extra day of rest for Game 4. Then Backe in Game 5. Then you have Oswalt available on three-days rest for Game 6 if it's an absolute must, otherwise save him for Game 7 on full rest and have a three-day rested Clemens ready to go an inning or two out of the bullpen.

Of course, the possible rainout on Thursday would make all this moot.

― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 14 October 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

no rainout!!! cheaters!!!!!

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 14 October 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

My main observation from last night is Carlos Beltran scares the crap out of me. Conventional wisdom says the Cards should paste Munro tonight. If the right Matty Mo shows up, we should be in good shape. Having Rolen and Edmonds come through last night was also very nice. And Pujols seemed to show he's ready to match anything Beltran does. Both of these line-ups are brutal. Every at bat seems tense.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

why is Renteria so underrated?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll take that as rhetorical coming from a fellow transplanted midwesterner in the NYC.

Hopefully the Bosox or someone else doesn't try to steal him next year. :(

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

yer right bnw but i still can't pass it up: renteria WAS underrated because he'd been in the league for like a decade and has only been really really good for the past 2.5 years (and actually he wasn't all that great this year).

pujols vs. beltran with the bat is no comparison.

― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 14 October 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

er contest

― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 14 October 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Pujols vs. Anyone in the National League (or maybe either league) except Bonds is no contest. Pujols is maybe the best all around hitter I've ever seen.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

They put up some stats last night about how we owned most the offensive categories (hits, rbi's, avg) for NL shortstops in the past 5 years . And he ain't too shabby w/ the leather either.

(my Pujols vs Beltran contest is strictly limited to the postseason, and Beltran has been on quite the tear)

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 14 October 2004 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

in the nl that might be, but edgar was decidedly sub a-rod/jeter/nomar/tejada before the second half of 2002. the whole complaint about his being underrated is that he wasn't until recently included in their class despite being just as good (obv ignoring that he wasn't included because he wasn't as good!).

― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 14 October 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Rain... Is it gonna hold?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Game is on!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeter and Nomar get more attention then they deserve. Renteria gets less. And it ain't 2002 no more!

Meanwhile, that Beltran guy still ain't regressing towards his mean.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

What is the advantage of havng ice-cold Rolen bat cleanup? Why doesn't TLR move him down and out of the most integral part of the lineup? I could understand if Rolen actually looked decent at the plate, but as is, why not move him down to where he could have less of an effect on these games? If he proves himself batting lower in the order, then move him up, but until then, is it really worth the risk?

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 15 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think renteria (THE CARDINALS BEST CLUTCH HITTER) gets less attention than he deserves. it ain't 2002, it's 2004, and edgar had a .728 OPS this year. he's better than that and i really hope the cards retain him, but it's not hard to see why he's overshadowed in that lineup. meanwhile complaining about jeter getting a lot of attention got pretty old, i dunno, 3 years ago. but otoh i suppose the fawning mediots kind of should've gotten the message by now.

rolen ain't right. he should be batting 6th but 5th is all cardinals fans can hope for. i actually wouldn't mind la russa pulling a torre and slotting him 7th for a game or two to try and shake him up.

walker is incredible.

― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

walker is the pick-up of the season as far as i'm concerned. i doubted his health but he looks fantastic... and not just the longball either.... he's stealing bases and legging out extra base hits.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 15 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

and on cue, rolen kills another rally

― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, i'll shut up now.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 15 October 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

these 5-6th inning 2-out rallys are gonna be the end of the astros AND the yanqz.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 15 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve Kline ain't right :/ good thing TLR micromanaged the bullpen last night! argh

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 15 October 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

POO-HOLES again. Incredible.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

wow.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Back 2 back!

(I hope the Cards can beat the Yankees.)

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

would've been more impressive if it wasn't completely obvious it was gonna happen as soon as micelli entered instead of lidge

manager's slavish devotion to save stat etc

(and now rolen)

― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

!!!!!!!!!! :) :)

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

this is just painful.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

What a difference a year makes, though.

from the Lidge-Dotel-Wagner brick wall, to .... a bunch of shit, and Lidge if you can get to him.

on the other hand, with Dotel no Beltran so what're ya gonna do.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

but they were at him; the announcer said garner was ready to use him for 2 innings or more if necessary. so you look to keep it tied for beltran & co, then save it in the 9th.

― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

what's the Stros' rotation for games 3 and 4?

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i am glad we have tomorrow off so i can calm down for a night

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, Ol' Scrap Iron blew it again, no doubt

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Friday, 15 October 2004 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

garner's such a choad

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 15 October 2004 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm completely without an opinion on this series. I'm not sure what team I dislike more.

Cubs in '05? ;(

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 15 October 2004 07:01 (twenty-one years ago)

what's the Stros' rotation for games 3 and 4?

Clemens then Oswalt. Against Suppan and Marquis.

I don't think it's unrealistic to think that this series could be tied after game 4.

Gotta minimize the bullpen usage. Garner should have left Munro in to face Rolen. Knowing what the bullpen has done the last few days, why go to them when the starter had looked pretty good up to that inning? I have a feeling we might see Dan Wheeler more in tight situations in this series.

― boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 15 October 2004 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sheehan of BP on Games 1 and 2:

"In both games, Garner:

* Went too long with a mediocre starting pitcher with a big platoon split, rather than being proactive about getting him out of the game

* Warmed up Mike Gallo 13 times without using him, despite the Cardinals' left-handed batters coming up in key situations

* Lost the game with his second-, third- and fourth-best right-handed relievers, while saving his best, Brad Lidge, for luggage handling on today's travel day."

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

What is the advantage of havng ice-cold Rolen bat cleanup?

tony la russa is running the numbers through his cray-like mind, bitch. don't mess.

okay, how old is pujols really? he is fucking awesome. but not as awesome as larry walker, who apparently joked about flying to sweden today to see a hockey game. good canadian kid, skates well, muck in the corners

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 15 October 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

okay, how old is pujols really?

well he's from the DR where you're supposed to add 2-4 years to the stated age. but simply judging from Pujol's looks/body/condition/performance I'd say he's at least on the high end of that estimate.

My favorite part of (fellow DR transplant) Rafael Furcal's DUI misfortune was learning that when he got his first DUI a few years ago, his Driver's License said he was 19 and he was charged with DUI as a minor. His lawyer eventually got him off the charge because according to his DR birth certificate, his actual age was 22.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 15 October 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

well, he *is* balding!

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 15 October 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

* Went too long with a mediocre starting pitcher with a big platoon split, rather than being proactive about getting him out of the game

I think he may have pulled both Backe and Munro too fast if anything.

Whatever the age of Alberticus, it takes nadda away from what he's done in his first 4 years in the bigs. Which is waaaaaay more then that Bonds guy.

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 15 October 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

haha whatever. when alberto is still *improving* 15 years from now, we'll talk

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 15 October 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

...and Larry Walker wastes absolutely no time in game 3. Sheesh.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 16 October 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

At this rate, it's gonna be 24-9 Astros.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 16 October 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

this thing where Clemens pitches the ball where people can't hit it is really gay...

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Lidge, Clemens and Beltran may yet save this Houston team...

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

delaying the inevitable.

― John (jdahlem), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Astros make the series interesting, at least.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, we're back! Poo-holes smacks another 2-run homer in the first, Rolen just doubled, and Oswalt doesn't look good. But it is just the first.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

you can't stop the puj

― bnw (bnw), Sunday, 17 October 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

And you can't stop Beltran. Marquis is doing his best to help the Stros, too.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

houston is toast. marquis will settle down, but even if he doesn't, oswalt fucked the stros with that first inning. he had to throw 8 innings today if the astros were to skip their middle relief and get to lidge, and that's not going to happen. i'll be very surprised if he goes more than six.

pujols is a god, and a wrathful one. fear pujols.

― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 17 October 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

dear GOD garner is a moron

― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 17 October 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

dear GOD la russia is a moron

― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 17 October 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Unreal.

Beltran is such a monster.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Beltran and Pujols are putting on a hitting clinic.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post

Beltran just smacked a ball that was 3 inches off the dirt into RF stands. Unreal.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Tavarez, jagmo, you're in a 1-run game in the NLCS. Get a fuckin' clue.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

This is a breathtaking comeback.
EIGHT homers in nine games for Beltran -- there are no words. In the last couple of weeks, he's added another $15-20 mil to the value of the contract he'll sign in the offseason (wherever he ends up signing).
(xpost, yeah, I can't believe he hit that ball out)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Wheels falling off the train...

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

There are good hitters, and then there are those rare few that hit well in the clutch. Beltran is one of 'em. Good lord would I love to have him on my team, but thanks to this display, he just priced himself out of Jerry Reinsdorf's range.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I never noticed this before, but why is Beltran batting 2nd? I'd try to shuffle Bagwell and Kent around to get Beltran and Berkman hitting back to back, 3-4 (or 4-5).

― mattbot (mattbot), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Tavarez is a head case. 'Nuf said.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

HUGE double play.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Woah, the Cardinals coulda saved their bacon with that GIDP!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

That DP was HUGE -- it's the key moment in the series if the Cards end up winning this game and go on to win the NLCS.
(xpost, we all think alike!)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, BBT -- remember the very first game of the season?? Billy Kock gives up a walk-off home run to -- guess who -- Beltran.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Rob, actually, I don't remember that...or at least the Beltran part of it. Hard to remember he was a Royal for so many years!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

that beltran home run was the most incredible thing i've seen this postseason. pls come to new york (next year). i'm begging you.

― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

oh wait, shit -- i just looked it up, it was Marte that gave up the walk-off. in relief of Koch who had given up three earned.

anyway, I had Beltran on my other fantasy team this year (not the ILBB one)(ugh, I finished 11th out of 12 in the other league), so I saw his line every day. the guy can do everything.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll try to find the WSI gameday thread on that...I'm sure I had some pithy comments to add.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Making it seem as though Oswald REALLY showed something by giving up 5 runs and pitching like crap = idiocy.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

So just to stir the turd a little, why is everyone creaming themselves over a guy with a career .844 OPS who happens to be on a two week tear?

― mattbot (mattbot), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Well he was a 40-40 this year ya know? People tend to get a little excited about that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Because he is single-handedly keeping the Astros' franchise's hopes alive during a crucial 7-game series?

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

um, because he's doing it on the sport's biggest stage? a stage on which he's never yet had the opportunity to perform?

Also, OPS doesn't take into account baserunning and fielding and throwing, last time I checked.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

(Berkman's kicking ass, too, btw.)

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, we're even with 3 to go. I'm surprised at the Astros' resiliency, so my hat is tipped in their direction.

Still, I want the Yankees to lose and lose painfully in the World Series, so I still haveta go with the Cardinals as my por favor pick. The Astros would get punked in 4 or 5.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

rwh otm, beltran is a lot more valuable than his OPS. also the guy's been on the cusp of breaking out for the past year at least, and there's a chance this is just the culmination i've been waiting for since his 2003 season (where his peripherals substantially improved to little real result)

― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

<Dr_Morbius>40-40 is just a counting stat</Dr_Morbius>

OK, OK, just a little teasing. I'd love to see him playing for the Cubs next year, or barring that, somewhere besides the NL Central. He's good.

― mattbot (mattbot), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

he's great!

― John (jdahlem), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

He's the best thing to happen to the LCS since B*rtm*n!

― mattbot (mattbot), Sunday, 17 October 2004 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean I-Rod, right? Bartman was only involved in Game 6.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Sunday, 17 October 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

that beltran home run was the most incredible thing i've seen this postseason. pls come to new york (next year). i'm begging you.

Yes, he's JUST what the Yankees need to finally reach their potential as a possible contender. Christ.

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Monday, 18 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, come on, Nate! The Yanks STILL don't have Vlad, Gagne, Ichiro, Bonds and I-rod! Give 'em a break.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Monday, 18 October 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Correction, Beltran was a 38-40 guy this year.

And I'm afraid he's priced himself out of Houston's price range, as well. :-(

― boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 18 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

thus far the series is following the 6 game script most had penned for it. Cards obviously need more from Renteria and Woah-mack. Hopefully, Woody steps it up for his hometown crowd tomorrow.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 18 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"alfalfa", do you have any idea what the yanks average age is?? or who's lined up to play center next year? or first, or second? yeah, sorry, i'm just a typical grossly selfish yankee fan, because obviously we're the yankees, we have no holes, and acquiring star players has had nothing to do with our winning. and even if it did, we've won enough and we should let other teams (like boston) who DON'T normally spend lots of money of superstar free agents take their pick of the litter. yeah. shut up.

― John (jdahlem), Monday, 18 October 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh boo hoo. You'll survive another Mattingly era.

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Monday, 18 October 2004 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

yankees fans: NOTHING IS EVER ENOUGH WHERE ARE THE ROBOTS COME ON WE WANT THEM NOW

― maura (maura), Monday, 18 October 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

there are no good anti-yankee arguments.

― John (jdahlem), Monday, 18 October 2004 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

you say that now...

― maura (maura), Monday, 18 October 2004 03:45 (twenty-one years ago)

please take yanqui talk to the yanqui thread... what the hell!

this is actually a really close series, but unfortunately for the Astros, they're back with Backe and Munro for games #5 and #6.

beltran got REAL cold during the season it seemed like every other month. he's human. but he's real hot right now and that's gonna carry over into his negotians (he's a boras client) so i'd imagine he'll go to a major market next year.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's not forget that this is is Age 27 year (though he might be 28) & it's possible this is just his natural career peak & CB will regress to his "average" performance in 2K2 & will probably not be worth the A-Rodian dollars (in the long term) his playoff performance will earn him.

Yeah, 40-40 (or 38-40 in CB's case) as a benchmark itself isn't all that indicative of greatness (if it's done by a guy that does nothing but homer & only steals at a 60% clip), but the fact that Beltran's a smart baserunner (as implied by his success rate) & has plate discipline & can hit to all fields is the sort of thing that is possibly implied, but should be expounded upon, when someone reaches for the "40-40" shorthand.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 18 October 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a feeling if the Cards win today, we'll see Rocketman back for game 6... at least some of it.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah beltran's at his physical peak right now, but he's gotten more intelligent as hitter as well, and that will carry on. and you don't steal consistently at 90% on speed, either - the dude's obviously a very smart ballplayer. the yankees (sorry g!) should have a big advantage because they'll presumably be more willing to sign him the ~7 years he'll doubtlessly want. i see no reason to think he won't age well, and imo it'd be a worthy gamble.

― John (jdahlem), Monday, 18 October 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not a big Yanquis hater dude (there's plenty more empassioned folx on this very board). Until they start monopolizing the World Series, then I think it's an issue. That's not the case though.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Astros issue apology for replaying Julian Tavarez meltdown on scoreboard

HOUSTON -- The Houston Astros apologized to the Cardinals on Monday, saying they erred a day earlier by showing a replay of St. Louis reliever Julian Tavarez's tantrum on the stadium scoreboard.

The excitable Tavarez tried to trash the dugout shortly after giving up a tiebreaking home run to Carlos Beltran in the seventh inning of Houston's 6-5 win that evened the NL Championship Series at 2. As it turned out, the pitcher broke two bones in his left hand during his tirade, Cardinals manager Tony La Russa informed reporters Monday.

"We made a mistake in judgment by playing that," Astros spokesman Jay Lucas said. "We meant no disrespect to the Cardinals' organization.

"We apologize for it," he said. "We want to show both teams in a positive light. It won't happen again."

Lucas said the entertainment operators at Minute Maid Park who showed the replay did not lose their jobs and were not disciplined. Game 5 was Monday night at Houston.

La Russa was upset that Tavarez's antics were displayed on the board. LaRussa said Monday that the right-handed Tavarez still will be able to pitch in the series.

"I think ever since I've been around, since 1996, the Astros are as classy an organization as anything I've met in the National League," he said Sunday. "But even Sinatra clears his throat, and I think that was below their standards and that was disappointing."

Tavarez, who has been suspended several times in the past, angered the Astros right after Beltran homered when he threw a pitch over Jeff Bagwell's head. They shouted at each other, and Tavarez threw up his arms.

First baseman Albert Pujols and other Cardinals came to the mound at that point, trying to settle down Tavarez. Plate umpire Mike Winters issued warnings to both teams, and there was no more trouble.

When the inning ended, Tavarez bent over as he approached the bench and appeared to scream at himself. He slammed his glove on the dugout roof, tried to yank the bullpen phone off its mounting and threw down a water cooler.

"I just lost my cool," Tavarez said, completely calm after the game. "I was not throwing at him. It was not intentional."

Said Bagwell: "These are heated games. That was my initial reaction."

Tavarez was suspended for 10 games for applying a foreign substance to a ball in late August, and the penalty was later cut to eight games.

In 2003, he drew a three-game suspension for fighting during a brawl while with Pittsburgh. In spring training with the Cubs in 2001, he was suspended for three games after making a flying kick at San Francisco's Russ Davis.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 18 October 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

haha he's like out of 'street fighter'

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 18 October 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

The funny thing is that I'm pretty sure he was a Giant in 2000!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Nope it was 99, but still!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Brandon Backe with an unbelievable PERFECT GAME through 2 full innings. 3 strikeouts, nothing is gonna stop him tonight. Just 7 more innings to go Brandon!!!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

PERFECT THROUGH THREE!!! Who cares about the Sox/Yanqs, big deal!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Hitless through 6 2/3 for Backe. Too bad Williams is tossing a gem, too.

― boldbury (boldbury), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Astros may be catching a break. TLR is lifting Williams for a pinch hitter.

― boldbury (boldbury), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)

kent sure caught a break. wham!

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't like jeff kent. he's an okay hitter, though

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Porn 'Stache with a walk off bomb!!!!

― boldbury (boldbury), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

gygax!'s favorite player comes through ... in THE CLUTCH

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

he looked exactly like frye from ferris bueller's day off coming into home.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

When they gave the intentional walk sign to Berkman I turned to what I assume was another Giants fan watching the game and said "double play, $20". He reached his hand out for a slight moment and then pulled it back perhaps remembering the endless array of double plays mr. "clutch"/"pornstache"/"redneck popawheelie" you name it litany of woes dribbled to SS/2B when he batted behind Bonds.

So imagine my fellow pubmate's surprise when the ball left the bat.

So: Good for Kent, he's finally figuring out how to hit behind a decent hitter. It's about time, unfortunately, a little too late in his career.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

the announcer says Kent "takes it personally" if the batter before him is intentionally walked!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Why should the Astros have to apologize for showing 43,000 people what millions of people also saw in TV? And since, Tavarez broke two bones in his hand during his rampage, the incident has a legitimate effect on the rest of the series. TLR should be more pissed at his guy than the Astros.

― boldbury (boldbury), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

hard not to tip your hat to the 'stros, though.

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 03:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Backe pitched an unbelievable game, especially considering the Cards lineup. That was a big win.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Nothing like Kent bombing Izzy to make a Mets fan feel... ambiguous.

Tavarez was clearly crazy with Cleveland in '97.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Redbird nation questioning TLR's call to give Berkman (w/ a 2-2) a walk once Beltran stole 2nd.

AVG OBP SLG
Lance Berkman after going 2-2 .213 .406 .353
Jeff Kent at 0-0 and beyond .289 .348 .531

It's hard to blame the pitching/manager though when you only get one hit all game.

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It's always easy to blame TLR.

― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

at the time, i figured isringhausen would throw him two balls off the plate and hope he swung at them, so i was kind of surprised too. he's a decent strikout pitcher, berkman's a decent strikeout candidate. maybe you get berkman out, then walk kent to get to ensberg. i don't think it was an absurd decision, though.

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

40-40 is just a counting stat

Har de HAR, Mattbot...here's what makes Beltran great on the paths:

2003: 28 steals in 28 attempts
2004: 42 in 45

Dunno what you guys are smoking if you think he's goin anywhere but the Bronx... If the Astros go all the way, MAYBE they have a longshot.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Does Bernie become the DH then?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

bernie becomes the designated guitarist

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Enrique Wilson on cowbell!

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Take your Yankee talk to the other thread PLEASE!!!!

caption this photo:
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041019/capt.hta13110190435.nlcs_cardinals_astros_hta131.jpg

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"WWWILBURRRR!!!"

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.asstastic.org/images/bonds_kent.jpg

― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Unfazed by Kent's whinnying, Shawon Dunston reaches for yet another glazed Krispy Kreme.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNWZic251BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-nlcs&prov=ap&type=lgns

garner is going to start munro in game 6, clemens on full rest in game 7. i'm kinda shocked about this but i think it's wise.

― John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeff Kent on washboard & Jew's Harp!!

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

The Astro pitching situation reminds me of the Mets in the '73 Series; with a 3-2 lead going to Oakland for Game 6, Yogi Berra started Seaver in Game 6 and Jon Matlack in Game 7 -- both on 3 days rest -- when he could've saved Seaver for 7. (Seaver pitched 5 decent innings and lost to Catfish, Matlack didn't last 3.) A start from a fully rested Clemens makes the most sense in this case... hell, he's 42, and Seaver was 28 in 1973.

If today's NL game goes 18 innings, Fox cuts away for Bos-NYY right at 8:19 ET I'm sure...

Re Beltran, Bernie already said during the summer he'd yield CF to him.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

caption this photo:

riverdancing subway busker jeff kent passes the hat during a recent performance in houston.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"The Astro pitching situation reminds me of the Mets in the '73 Series; with a 3-2 lead going to Oakland for Game 6, Yogi Berra started Seaver in Game 6 and Jon Matlack in Game 7 -- both on 3 days rest -- when he could've saved Seaver for 7. (Seaver pitched 5 decent innings and lost to Catfish, Matlack didn't last 3.) A start from a fully rested Clemens makes the most sense in this case... hell, he's 42, and Seaver was 28 in 1973."

It's also reminiscent of last year's World Series, where McKeon started Beckett on 3 days rest and was planning on starting Pavano on 3 days as well. That turned out okay for the Marlins. Big difference is, of course, that Beckett and Pavano are young and Clemens is older than Methusalah at this point. I think Garner is making the right call.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Good news for Cards fans:

Cris Carpenter, who led the Cardinals' staff in most pitching statistics this year, is making great progress in his recovery from a nerve injury and will probably be available for the World Series.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's hope he doesn't get an enlarged head a la Junior Griffey from all that nerve tonic!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Beltran walks and steals 2B. Morris doesn't have his control down yet.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

1-0 already

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Pujols is unreal.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Pujols 2-run blast into the bullpen

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

How did he hit that out? He was reaching for it and looked way off-balance.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

teh big muskles

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

His half swing on a sinker way outside almost made it to the short porch at Enron/Coors Lite/Minutemaid.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

"Soup" Campbell on the radio is predicting a slugfest, so I pray for a 3-2 Houston win.

Who's Garner's first guy outta the bullpen today?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know but it looks like sooner rather than the 3rd.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Beltran missed homer #9 by about four feet.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

...and Munro gets the hook after 2 1/3

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

So, Biggio: puss arm, or what?

I'm listening on radio, so I can't tell.

p.s. go Cards.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

why am I not watching this? I will go do so now.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Garner will be retro-actively second-guessed for starting Munro now, even though most were in agreement that it was a good decision.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Biggio -- yes, puss-arm; had to one-hop it in, and Ensberg didn't field it cleanly anyway so not even a tag-play

thing is, Houston's entire bullpen now has two days rest thanks to Backe.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops -- sorry about that: it's Lamb at 3rd

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Lamb makes up for it by homering again.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

That play was identical to the run Beltran scored -- ball scorched down the line, takes manic bounce off the wall, and rolls around in left field -- except Pujols got thrown out.
Although crediting the guy who threw the ball is giving him more credit than he deserves.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, Lamb was a spectator on both of those balls hit his way.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Was that a "gutsy" running play by Pujols or just plain stupid? The radio call said he ran through the sign at third.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

He did. It's just a feeling I have ... but if Beltran hadn't scored on an identical play earlier in the game, I don't think he would have tried to score.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, I figure he saw what Beltran did on that -- the carom off the wall -- and figured "fuck it, I can make it"

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i have not watched any of this game because if the cardinals lose ugh

― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

oh boy...

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

god i am gonna have a fucking heart attack

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

shit.
I was just about to type, "they shouldn't have walked Beltran"

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

this is going to be a rotten night.

― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

tie game.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

we need to get out of this inning...........

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSsssssssss

― experimental grandma (deangulberry), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't ask for better hitters in the bottom of the ninth ...
I know TLR is a guy who likes to play outside the book, but you just can't intentionally walk the potential series-winning run.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

It didn't matter though did it? Ensberg was already on 2nd.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

T/S: Bagwell single vs. Beltran HR

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuckin' Isringhausen.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Betcha La Russa doesn't intentionally walk anybody ever again.

I dislike the Astros, but I hate Tony LaRussa.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i hate la russa too but i fail to see how that was bad move especially in hindsight as you're implying. bagwell is not as good a hitter as beltran, and they were one out away from ending the game. the problem was that ultraspeedy carlos could've easily scored on 2 out XB hit, and that didn't happen.

― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

That walk was four times as important as eight home runs.

― experimental grandma (deangulberry), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

It's also the intentional walk that lost a game in this series - you'd think LaRussa would stop fucking with fate.

But - Beltran hasn't had a history this season/series of hitting Isringhausen, Bagwell was 6/15 or something like that. I'd pitch to the hotter guy than the guy who's had success against this specific pitcher.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It didn't matter though did it? Ensberg was already on 2nd.
The tying run, sure, but they ended up with two more RISP in part due to the IBB.

T/S: Bagwell single vs. Beltran HR
McCarver would probably claim they're the same thing.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

didn't realize that stat milo, that does make it quite a bit more muddled.

― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, they said Beltran was 1/7 vs Bagwell 6/15 with 6 BB.
Then again, in case of a grounder, you're better off facing Bagwell and getting a force at any base vs facing the much faster Beltran and having to throw him out at first. Tough decision.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Lidge is so in the zone it's not funny.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

he's out, thank god

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

For Houston's sake, they'd better win tonight because if they lose, use up Lidge (3IP) AND Oswalt, then their relief options are seriously limited if tomorrow's game is close.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The ump is not being generous to Tavarez here. Sheesh.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

If you're going to extend your pitchers like that and invest everything in Game 6, then they could have started Clemens today.
(xpost to me)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, this would be a good time to end the game

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Intentional? Surely not, but, yeah, sorta. Weird.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

That walk was as good as a home run. Oh, wait.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

WHY SWING AT THE FIRST PITCH, YOU IDIOT?

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

YES!!!!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

HOT DAMN.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Lordy does Edmonds have the sweetest swing. MERCY.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

fuck.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it wrong of me to root against Houston just so I won't have to hear the Roger Clemens insanity/hyperbole, no matter who the AL representative is in the WS?

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, did everyone see the "Slam-a-Lam-a Ding Dong" sign?

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

those signs are very very wrong.

― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 21 October 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, you guys should have heard the local sports talk radio guys. They were hoppin' mad at Garner for losing this game. It's so funny how everybody was pretty much looking at game 7 as the game the Astros win because of the pitching matchup and then when they don't win game 6, it's a disaster. First, they were mad because they brought in Miceli instead of Oswalt. Well, if you use Oswalt today, then you blow him for tomorrow. Then they were mad that Garner double-switched and took Berkman out, overlooking the fact that if you don't double switch, then you don't get three innings out of Lidge. Plus, Berkman's spot came up with nobody on and two outs in the 12th, so it's not like they missed out on a great scoring opportunity because the only pinch hitter they had left was Brandon Backe.

It's amazing how two weeks ago everybody was praising Garner and now they complain about every move he makes in the games that they lose. Never mind that the Astros hitters went nine-up, nine-down in the 10th, 11th, and 12th innings today. It's Garners fault they lost because he had already used up all his good relievers and only had Miceli, Gallo and Springer left to use unless he wanted to go ahead and blow out Oswalt.

And I'll say again, that they had the pitching rotation set up to win Game 7. Winning Game 6 would have been a bonus. I'll take a full-rested Clemens against Suppan. I feel good about that matchup. Then one or two innings out of a three-days rested Oswalt and then if needed an inning from Lidge. What does TLR have to back up Suppan? Isringhausen went three innings today and hasn't been very good in the series. Tavarez went two today. Overall, I feel really good about the pitchers the Astros will trot out tomorrow compared to what St. Louis will have available.

Thank you for letting me rant against the idiots I heard on the radio today.

― boldbury (boldbury), Thursday, 21 October 2004 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

After the McKeon that Garner pulled this year he should be damned slightly less often.

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 21 October 2004 05:56 (twenty-one years ago)

hopefully craig biggio will pull a johnny damon tonight.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 21 October 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I am hoping for it to be 10-2 Cardinals by the 4th.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 21 October 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Any more predictions?

I like the Cards. Houston plays fantastic at home, however, their season is over tonight.

Pujols is better than Beltran, better than Ortiz, better than Sheffield... he's getting no attention and that's the way he likes it.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 21 October 2004 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Pujols is getting no attention???

ah, but what's your take on the pitching, dear gygax? I'd be inclined to pick the Cards too, but man, a rested Clemens with Oswalt available...

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Thursday, 21 October 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

If the Astros can keep the pitchers used to Clemens & Oswalt (&, of course, SuperLidge), they have it in the bag. Suppan has to pitch well (obviously) & long (obviously) because the Cards' bullpen hasn't looked all that snazzy, especially Izzy. I imagine Marquis will be available for extended work, though, which is a plus assuming the available Marquis is the one that pitched for St. Louis from June to September & not the Marquis that the Braves dumped on the Cards in the off-season.

HALF-ASS POOPCHUTES PREDICTION: Suppan will falter in the 5th (BELTRAN AHOY!). Clemens will be solid through 5 but will scuffle in the 6th. Oswalt will pitch OK in relief, but will be yanked after throwing more pitches than he should have, & a non-Lidge 'Stro will give up s'more runs & possibly lose the lead. LaRussa will micro-manage to death (cf. the 9th inning of Game 3), allowing the Astros to score a few off of various Cardinal bullpen chumpzillas to take back the lead. Lidge closes it out in the 9th, throwing 15 pitches, 13 for strikes. And a game in the best NLCS no one really talked about will FINALLY have the spotlight all to itself. Astros 7, Cardinals 5.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 21 October 2004 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

WRT: The Rocket. Well he is 42 years old.

2004 Pre-Allstar: 2.62 ERA
2004 Post-Allstar: 3.41 ERA

Both respectable but telling.

And he pitches very well in the Astrodome:
2004 Home: 2.71 ERA
2004 Away: 3.43 ERA

Unfortunately, this ain't the Astrodome.

And how has the Rocket been faring under pressure?
First there's last year's Championship Series Game 7 and the Rocket got the quick hook after pitching four innings of 4 run ball. Not to mention this other highly-watched game a couple months ago where Mark Mulder nobly took 3 strikes looking to get out of the inning.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 21 October 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Gygax!, are you goofin' re: references to the Astrodome in place of the Juice Box?

Clemens was a solid guy in 1986. Somehwere along the way (against those damn Oakland teams & DAVE STEWART), he became a chicken choker. He remained a choker until that one-hitter against the Mariners - then he was clutch. Now, I believe he's in that nebulous region where it's OK for ill-informed generalizing announcers to call him "clutch" because of that one-hitter & his overall excellence as a pitcher in the post-season, along w/ his excellent start earlier in the series. This, of course, disregards his struggles against the Braves in the NLDS (a LOT of walks in the first start, very solid in his 2nd despite the 3 days' rest), but as everyone knows in the field once named after Enron, numbers are there to be used (or ignored) to your advantage.

So I guess this means Clemens is actually a clutch choker. Hott.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 21 October 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

If the home/away split means anything for pitchers, we're toast re: Suppan. Clemens definitely makes me nervous.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 21 October 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Clemens/Oswalt/Lidge, but won't be shocked if the Cards get em early. If Brad gets the save opp, it's over.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 21 October 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

home/away split means nothing here as far as i'm concerned bnw. but i think the astros have to be huge favorites here.

lidge is not superhuman but there's been every indication this year that the cardinals simply cannot hit the guy (2 hits against in 17 and two thirds total innings, i shit thee not)

― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 21 October 2004 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

but he's pitched a fuckload lately. I am hoping his arm pops off.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 21 October 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

hopefully craig biggio will pull a johnny damon tonight.

-- fortunate hazel (fhaze...), October 21st, 2004 9:39 AM. (f. hazel)

eek!!!

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 21 October 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

that's what i was hinting at, bnw. lidge has pitched a lot, but then, not as much as one would first think (he's been efficient, esp. lately). i'm certainly not banking on any kind of collapse from him.

― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 21 October 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

looking grim :(

clemens is getting a nice fat strike zone... cards get hosed in a call at first by don denkinger's ghost.

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

watching this is just torture. and the cards did get hosed on that call.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree. are these games ever fun???

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

:):):):):):)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

no, not fun at all.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

bet the astros are feeling really good about all those stranded runners about now.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

what a funny game. Two pitches, 3 runs.

in his old age, it seems if Clemens hits a wall he ALWAYS hits it in the 6th.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Clemens looks utterly bewildered (sames as he always did against the A's all those years.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

6 outs............

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

3.......

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Why isn't John commenting on how bullshit Tony Womack's injury is? I'd think he'd be outraged.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:08 (twenty-one years ago)

W00T!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Cue up the Enos Slaughter / Jim Lonborg v. Bob Gibson footage!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Did bnw faint?

Anyway, congrats to the Cards. Should be a good one...

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

& fucking hell was Reggie Sanders blessed by the Pope or something way back when? 3 World Series appearances in 4 years, all on different teams?

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I think bnw is having the victory sex.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

haha that was so damn sweet :)

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i so wish i was in the Lou right now

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

yay cardinals! yay scott rolen!! now kick red sox ass!!! maybe nelly can sing the national anthem?!?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought i would really enjoy this game but instead: letdown. i felt totally flat all game, but some part of my befogged brain knows this is good, because i like the cardinals and i don't like the red sox.

alex that is a silly thing to say.

― John (jdahlem), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"yay scott rolen" ??

what kind of Philly fan are you??

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

A Philly phan that was smart enough not to phall for phucking Bowa's bullshit power play manipulations.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041022/i/r727097375.jpg

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:41 (twenty-one years ago)

cry cry cry

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

the astros could have very easily won this series. had edmonds not made *that catch* early on...

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 22 October 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

well, i just found out biggio and beltran signed a letter in support of president bush, so now i feel a bit better about them losing.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 22 October 2004 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, what a series! Congratulations to the Cardinals and their fans. I believe that Jim Edmonds catch is what won this game for them tonight. Not pitching around Pujols and Rolen in the 6th hurt, but not as bad as zero base hits for the Astros after the 4th inning. Although the Astros hit the ball hard throughout the game, the Cardinals just out-defensed them. Just look at the top of the 8th. Beltran hits a bullet up the middle, but Renteria had him shaded that way, Bagwell hits a laser beam that Renteria picks up off his shoe-tops. Berkmans hits a shot up the middle that nicks Tavarez's glove, slowing it enough for Renteria to make the play on it. The Cardinals were the better team tonight and for the season.

― boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 22 October 2004 03:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Giving up a two-run double to BRAD AUSMUS = The Kiss of Death. Seeing Edmonds make that unbelievable catch brought the following question to mind: WHERE THE HELL IS KENT BOTTENFIELD NOW YOU STUPID ANGELS? (Not to say that acquiring Adam Kennedy didn't pay off - 2002 was his (only?) year - but, geez, KENT BOTTENFIELD?)

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Which Fox dope did I hear credit the Cards with a "small ball" identity? How small were Pujols' 2B and Rolen's HR?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 October 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that was Thom Brennamen who was saying that. Yeah, kinda ridiculous when the tying and winning runs were scored on a Pujols double and a Rolen dinger.

― boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 22 October 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I was waiting for Thom to annoint Reggie Sanders and Craig Biggio as "future Hall-of-Famers". In his defense, they did little ball their first run (though the rally did start on a double, but it was by Tony Womack).

WHAT I JUST REALIZED: The Sox traded Womack to the Cards in Spring Training!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 22 October 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, Bidge only has like 1200 more hits than Sanders. He may not be a lock for the HOF, but lumping him in with Sanders is kind of an insult. Sanders has had a nice career, but is he even in the HOF conversation? I know Biggio is.

― boldbury (boldbury), Saturday, 23 October 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

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