Journeys by Rail vs. Journeys by Road

ever been on a train stopped at Woking, and looked at the town? I have, and you'll never get a more honest, straightforward, accurate view of what vast swathes of England look like. motorways and A-roads disconnect you from life.

its true about railways, towns dont present their best sides to the tracks, but to the roads, so you see a more interesting side, arriving by rail. but i like travelling by roads too, i like it when, on road, there are signs, with other places to the left and right, and they seem exotic and faraway, and i liked the signs saying how many miles to different places, and you see people too.

coming into london via rail i like, but as soon as potters bar is gone, it all races by and theres not enough time to see everything, all of a sudden its alexandra palace-hornsey-haringay-finsbury park and then you're there at kings cross. i like arriving by car, as you weave through the different bits, we used to come in via the A1, finchley, highgate, archway and down holloway road, but then we changed to the m11 and hackney wick-clapton-stoke newington-arsenal (slightly different from now on in new house of course). the sense of districts and life isnt so easy to see by train

http://www.norfolkwidmills.com/images/sign3.jpg

going by road - particularly by bus - can be great too, though, as buses will go through the middle of towns and let you see what they're like.

related to this: the old pre-1960s British roadsigns are *the* greatest symbol of what England used to be: they have an emotional resonance for me that steam-hauled branch lines can't have, because everyone goes on about them too often. my most otherworldly sight of the last decade was going into a part of inland Dorset where they still have the old plain white country direction posts with weatherbeaten black lettering: like, if there was ever such a thing as Mark S's "deep country", *this* is it.

I prefer the train because of the views and the ability to get up and stretch your legs whenever you want, but the car has a certain appeal too - a proper walk when you stop at a service station (rather than bouncing down the aisle clinging to the backs of seats and trying to keep a steaming hot cup of tea upright in a paper bag - why do they give you a cup of tea in a bag?), lack of screaming children and your own music loud rather than somebody else's coming at you tsch tsch tsch from their earphones. Also, you can set your own timetable. You can get very long delays using both forms of transport. To be honest, I tend to fly more than anything these days.

the best train journey i've taken so far was from lyon to rome; leaving a freezing cold lyon at the crack of dawn, edging round the alps, having cakes and coffee in turin before getting the connecting train, seeing the dazzling blue sea of the italian riviera, catching a glimpse of the leaning tower of pisa, and arriving into a warm roman evening.

Mark S: you used to use the phrase "deep country" from time to time relating to the part of Shropshire where you grew up: I know you didn't coin it, but I hadn't heard it much before, so somehow I always associate it with you. or Malcolm Saville, obviously.

What haven't survived nearly as much are the precursors of the triangular pictograms for fords, z bends and so on, which just had a red metal triangle and the hazard in words beneath.

I love the approach to Bristol Temple Meads on the train. The combination of the size of the city and the fact the line bends round as it approaches means you get a really good vista, with the buildings looming into view. London's just too big.....BAM! you hit it, and villages are too small to get the same effect.

the shropshire of 35 years ago was a good deal more "deep country" than it is now, obv: when was the beeching report? 1963? anyway, all the many tiny little railway branch lines were still only quite recently shut down when i wz small (the first stupid step towards the UK's current transport quagmire, of course)

(the day after the big storms i had to stand on the train from shrewsbury to watford junction: abt five hours-worth...)

practically speaking, my mom looking after my dad for all these years — let alone me or becky or professional carers looking after both of them — would have been impossible w/o a car: one or both would have had to move into town or into a home long ago, and it is of course on the back of such necessities (the endless short journeys that make up ordinary domestic life) that car-culture has triumphed

there's a big bypass flyover which cuts through the landscape of my early childhood, which is about five miles from where my parents live: when i take a detour to drive around under it, i find i'm assaulted by a complicated mix of feelings — nostalgic fascination for the elements which survive (like a funny little WW2 series of buildings which used to belong to the org my dad worked for, where they now make glassware, though the pond we used to skate on in winter is right under the flyover now), against a powerful Ballardian rush of abstract excitement for the homogenisation and suburbanisation of the world (I too like airports and motorways and roundabouts and malls all these strange faceless in-between spaces and zones, where you don't really know where you are...)

Pleeeeze tell me what you know as I spend a lot of time on trains and would like to know because I'm curious, would like to know about how unsafe I am and also use it in articles and letters. I won't quote you.

PS - Tains would be better with smoking carriages. Big Love to GNER, Midland Mainline and South West Trains longer distance journeys.

I'd love to see a rock band travel by train. Cross Canada trip hits all major cities, Halifax, Sackville, Moncton, Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Sudbury, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver/Victoria.

You'd think there'd be a website documenting the history of all this with photographs and fonts etc. but amazingly there isn't, or at least Google doesn't throw anything up.

why is rail travel in the uk so fucking fucking expensive, i want a nice holiday with my gf and some of these trips are more expensive than four nights' airbnb for fuck's sake

this is the worst thing the tory government ever did ever (maybe)

ha, it's still way cheaper than in the US. granted, the US is a bit bigger.

cheapest long-distance rail travel i've experienced was in italy. i almost felt guilty it was so cheap.

local rail travel is much cheaper than local bus though!

Slaithwaite-Brockholes (transfer at huddersfield) by train is cheaper, than either Slaithwaite-Huddersfield or Huddersfield-Brockholes

yeah I've experienced Italian rail travel, it's insanely cheap yeah

I'd be all for rail if it went anywhere here (it doesnt) and was a well run service (its not) and wasn't gougingly expensive (it is unless you book way in advance nb they dont provide assistance when someone steals the seat you booked see point 2)

but interrailing Europe was the business

Everywhere I've been in Europe is insanely cheap in comparison to the UK, except they're not actually insanely cheap we're just insanely expensive. It's insanely cheap to travel by coach btw but don't, just don't.

the uk and Germany ime

I've been to more places in Poland than i have in the UK. I've literally never been north of Leicester. When people ask why i point to the fact that the cost of a return ticket to, idk, York for two people would generally get you to Moscow and back with BA. It's ridiculous.

literally?

those shuttle trains to the airport are a ripoff as well tho

Yep, Stansted Express is often more expensive than the flight itself.

what is to be done?

the railways were built for the people, this is one of the great betrayals of our age

Sadly.

The cost of commuting is also horrific - seven and half grand a year if you want to get from Peterborough to London, for example. Nine from Northampton. Five from Luton. Luton!

if there was ever something to get nostalgically Sadly, about, it was this

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513Br0FDMlL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

in my limited experience of rail travel in north america it is pretty awful. not the actual experience of the train journey, which i've found quite pleasant, but in terms of speed and cost.

no separate lines for freight and passenger trains, freight takes precedent so you literally will stop at times to let freight go by.

trains don't go very fast in general.

as a corollary of this it actually takes longer to get places by train than by car.

expensive, very expensive. even more so than britain perhaps.

e.g. car from vancouver bc to portland or - about 500km.

takes 6 or so hours by car depending on the border wait times.

takes about 8 or so hours by rail.

would cost about $170/110 pounds for a return.

(actually just realised that's probably way cheaper than a british rail ticket of a similar distance would be)

london to inverness advance off-peak return is pushing £160 iirc

ouch

jim in glasgow very OTM re US rail travel. I love rail travel love love love it and it's so expensive and impractical that it's not worth it, most of the time.

Exceptions: the Acela line from DC to Boston, and trips from Chicago to the next closest Midwestern City (although even then the scheduling will sometimes make it impossible).

have u looked at flights

do u need a passport for an internal uk flight?

You don't even need a passport to fly to Ireland, though you do need acceptable photo ID. Internal UK flights are the same, typically.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/76ad789df8db423237afa08f662027b7/tumblr_muawpcx1cc1sd6ra5o1_1280.jpg

Really fancied a week down in the West country, until I just checked rail prices. FFS.

Guess where? That's right, the West Country!

A train ticket between two towns just 64 miles apart has been offered for £10,000 by a rail operator's website.