West of Chicago: another america location question!

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des moines
pierre
sioux falls
fargo
bismarck
billings
butte
helena
boise

these places seem impossibly far away and strange, in an almost unknowable way. i cant imagine what they're really like. i have an impression that they are Germanic possibly even Nordic.

I talked with Sam, and a few other people, about whats between chicago and seattle. and the consensus is, 'a whole load of nothing'.

(i know ive left minneapolis/st paul off this, but weve had threads about that, these places are more unknown to me)

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 9 February 2003 01:26 (twenty-three years ago)

It depends on what you're looking for.

― Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 9 February 2003 01:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Um, what was the question?

From my POV, these sorts of towns are so fully dominated by their surounding geography that the best way to understand them would be to get a good atlas and look at their elevation, average rainfall, topographical relief and typical agriculture. For the most part these are "market towns" that serve the surrounding countryside.

Except Butte, MT. It is (was) a mining town, not a farm town. Think rough, dirty men with whisky and dynamite and you'll be approaching the truth. The middle of town is a huge mining pit. However, cheap Chilean copper has put Butte back on its heels. I'm not sure if Anaconda takes much out of the ground anymore.

― Aimless, Sunday, 9 February 2003 01:53 (twenty-three years ago)

"i have an impression that they are Germanic possibly even Nordic" - good call.

― James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:05 (twenty-three years ago)

If you have a chance to drive through I-90 and I-94 from Chicago to Seattle, I recommend it. (Those are the highways that go through North Dakota and west). Stunningly beautiful geography.

Aimless pretty much described Butte, MT accurately. I'll add that it's kinda frightening for those reasons.

Boise is alright, but it does have one of the greatest records in the country.. the Record Exchange... if you're into that kind of thing.

The Fargo/Moorhead area is a dishoveled pile of dirty scrap metal dressed in major chain motels and fast food places along the highway. Venture a mile or two north of the highway, and you're basically in Anaheim, CA but in a deep freezer.

The Bismarck/Mandan area is kinda charming. Not much there at all, and I highly recommend going to the capital building just to see the orthogonal "North Dakota Capital" building.

Not much in Billings or Miles City or other "major" cities in Montana though. Though I've never been to Helena.

Missoula, MT (which is just west of Butte) is an interesting college town area, as is Moscow, ID. Neither are worth going out of your way, though.

Coeur D'Alene, ID is kinda pretty but oppressively white. I mean that literally and figuratively. I actually think Spokane, WA is prettier than Coeur D'Alene but that's just me.

...

In brief, that area is worth a great scenic drive.. especially in the spring, when the snow is still around but not necessarily falling on you too heavily, and the temperatures are not fatally cold.

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Ok, I suppose a train ride would work too. :) But make sure you hit the Rockies during the day, when you can actually see them!

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:21 (twenty-three years ago)

one of the greatest records in the country

record stores.. oops

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Aimless and donut bitch = OTM. I live 3.5 hours drive north of Fargo. I've only been there a couple of times (haven't been anywhere else on the list, though they're not a whole lot different, I don't think). I'm not sure what the Nordic thing means, except that yes, Swedes and Norwegians live in Minnesota and North Dakota, and it's cold. Stores with names like "Hornbacher's". Everything's a little scarier than here (more guns and flags). I love driving across the prairies. Most people find it boring. Driving through the Canadian Shield is FUCKED UP. So terrifying.

― Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 9 February 2003 02:27 (twenty-three years ago)

The Canadian Shield? Explain. You mean Highway 1? Or customs?

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 9 February 2003 03:45 (twenty-three years ago)

i love these cities, they feel small and intimate, and desperate to show the big boys what they are up to. except montanna which is evil.

― anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 9 February 2003 03:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Heh heh. Highway 1/17 (roughly) from the Manitoba/Ontario border to, I don't know, Sault St. Marie? SEAN C. TO THREAD! Lots of skinny undivided highway, animals, and semis passing people nearly running you off the road. Lots of fatalities. The reason why most people drive through the States from here (it's a little shorter to go through the US as well if you're driving to Toronto or wherever east).

― Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 9 February 2003 03:54 (twenty-three years ago)

When people do things in this part of the world, you can generally count on the fact that they mean it.

― Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 9 February 2003 03:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Aaah. All I remember is that my drive from Detroit to Toronto on 401 being completely frightening. Even on snow packed roads, semi-trucks somehow can't go slower than 140kmph. Fucking hell.

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 9 February 2003 03:57 (twenty-three years ago)

it didn't help that 401, in of itself, is a dismally boring drive south of Toronto.

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 9 February 2003 03:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm going to be doing that drive next week (going from Pearson to Windsor). I smartly reserved a big car for the drive.

― Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 9 February 2003 04:03 (twenty-three years ago)

if you did do an amtrak trip and you wanted to break it up, which of these do you reckon would be best for an overnight stop? glasgow, malta, havre, shelby, browning or east glacier park?

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 11:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Motherfucking Wheaton, yo.

― Graham (graham), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 11:30 (twenty-three years ago)

My dad said Butte was one of the worst places he'd been to. (he also got sued by B*tte Mont*ana Mining so that may have something to do with it but that happened some years after he'd been)

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 11:53 (twenty-three years ago)

So pronounced with the silent E, then?

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 11:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Interestingly, I may be going to Glacier National Park soon. My grandfather was born in West Glacier. It's supposed to be stunning.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 15:05 (twenty-three years ago)

VERY stunning. I had a chance to visit Montana a few times when I was younger -- my grandparents lived in the Bitterroot Valley, the whole A River Runs Through It setting and all that -- and we did an extended trip up to Glacier and into Canada. Lovely doesn't begin to describe it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 16:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Isn't there a vast pit of seething toxic waste in the center of Butte? (Note: I am not kidding.)

― Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 16:05 (twenty-three years ago)

That's such a self-contained question of beauty I think all of us -- even Dan -- could only boggle at it?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 16:17 (twenty-three years ago)

(Yes, I know, it's beautiful. But could someone answer it in seriousness before you and Dan have at it?)

― Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Uh huh.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 16:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Tourism (n): going places in another country that most citizens of that country usually try to avoid.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

I've been through Montana and Idaho a few times. I don't remember very much except for Yellowstone, which is -RAD-... and only 5 hours drive from here! Although last time I went to Yellowstone (10 years ago) it didn't seem to make as big of an impression on me as it did when my family visited when I was about 6... back then it seemed so... bizzare

― Mandee, Wednesday, 12 February 2003 19:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Stay overnight at Glacier - it's breathtaking - I actually prefer this park to Yellowstone (which is too crowded and too over-developed, in my opinion). Also check out Flathead Lake (yeah, talk about an un-PC name!). Oh, and back to Glacier - one of my favorites drives is through Glacier into Alberta - by way of the "Highway to the Sun." It goes above tree-level and the views are incredible - words do not suffice.

Oh, and if you're in Canada, go to Banff (spelling?) - Lake Victoria is stunning.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 21:59 (twenty-three years ago)

canadian shield = continental plate, very stable center of continent.

― keith (keithmcl), Thursday, 13 February 2003 05:08 (twenty-three years ago)

three months pass...

I am seriously considering taking my mom to Glacier. She is afraid of flying so I may get a family room on Amtrak. I'm wondering if it's worth the considerable outlay.

Actually, renting a car and driving out there is almost as expensive, and would be a ridiculous strain on me - if I had more time for a lengthy road trip, I'd do it.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 20:42 (twenty-three years ago)

i have an impression that they are Germanic possibly even Nordic.

Don't look at me.

I once did a greyhound trip south of this. it went SF to Chicago stopping at Cheyenne, Salt Lake, Omaha, Des Moines, Reno, and other places. many of my fellow passengers were Amish. Or old ladies with handheld casino games.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:23 (twenty-three years ago)

your fellow passengers were more than likely Mennonites, not Amish.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Big wide hats, old fashioned clothes, bushy red beards, funny dialect?

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Their babies were dressed just like them, but in miniature! The men would go out and eat at Burger King while the women would have to stay on the bus with the kids. Fascinating.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Amish don't travel by bus and eat at Burger King. Mennonites do.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought that was a bit strange (Burger King).

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 21:38 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

VERY stunning. I had a chance to visit Montana a few times when I was younger -- my grandparents lived in the Bitterroot Valley, the whole A River Runs Through It setting and all that -- and we did an extended trip up to Glacier and into Canada. Lovely doesn't begin to describe it.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), February 12th, 2003.

I grew up in Hamilton - lived on the west side of the "Bit'rut" (glottal stop). Ned, what town did you grandparents live in/near?

― Maria D., Saturday, 19 June 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

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