People Who Never Learned to Drive

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My girl has never learnt to drive nor wants to learn. I am astounded. Why would no one ever want to not learn to drive?

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 10:24 (twenty-three years ago)

i learned but failed test. i need to learn to drive, i really do. i can get away with it while living in england, but in the future its going to be a problem (plus it means GREYHOUNDS for my May trip, though i've warmed to that idea)

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Because filling a car up with petrol seems like too much effort, and travelling on buses/trains is such fun...

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I failed four tests when I was 17/18 (each time on something different apart from nerves which were a constant) astounding my instructor in the process.

Never bothered since then. I think I may have to try and go for it again this year.

― chris (chris), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:29 (twenty-three years ago)

i dont seem particularly bothered about it either, i still can't imagine myself driving which is worrying. i suppose the main thing is that living in London area and if you work in the city then the only time you're going to use the car is to go shopping with which isn't that essential either as the cost of learning to drive then buying and running a car (sadly not everyone has parents who are willing and able to shell out for all that when you're 17) is a lot so unless you're going to use the car all the time its not really worth it...

but having to be driven around by your girlfriend all the time can be quite dud - maybe thats just a stupid male pride issue i dunno, i am a scrub basically - no job either, ha ha. the only thing that makes me want to drive is so i can do road trips - maybe i'll have learnt by the time i am 30 but i wouldnt put a bet on it.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:30 (twenty-three years ago)

My reasons for being 26 and not being able to drive:

1) I live in a large city, and have access to various forms of public transport.
2) I couldn't afford to maintain a car.
3) Lessons are expensive.
4) Environmental/Social impact of cars. Pollution, and more importantly road building and out of town developments.

If I lived in the countryside or a small town, I would probably learn to drive.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:33 (twenty-three years ago)

I can drive but have never done my test as I've always lived in cities and have never felt the need to drive anywhere. Having said this, I'm always ridiculously impressed when a chap picks me up and takes me for a drive.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:33 (twenty-three years ago)

My brother the tubist finally learned to drive at about 21, bought a old clunker, drove into a parked car whilst eating a muffin, and promptly declared to the world that he would never drive again. He hasn't - it's been almost 10 years.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Plus I have a number of friends who have done the lessons, taken and passed the test and then haven't driven for six years and have completely forgotten how to drive.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I think it is essential that she learns to drive. I am willing to teach her But she is dead set against it. We can afford it. I am willing to pay for the lessons. But the thought of driving makes her neurotic!

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 10:35 (twenty-three years ago)

What I mean is this: How can people miss that rite of passage?

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 10:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I never got my full licence. I am terrified of cars. I feel out of control behind the wheel of one. I'm one of those people who don't concentrate on the road so Im better off not, afaic. Plus it saves money. Hell, I get nervy being in cars with others driving!

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:37 (twenty-three years ago)

PS mind you one day I may get a bike license and ride a scooter so go figure.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I have never had so much as a driving lesson, for various reasons (some convenience, some laziness, some rather more personal), even though when I lived in the sticks it would have been useful. In a big city it's just not necessary, and it's not really necessary anywhere. If you've never had it you don't miss it.

Having said that I, like Lara, am always impressed when a chap picks me up and takes me for a ride.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:39 (twenty-three years ago)

s samson i think you're right about the 'rite of passage' thing but as you will see from people's comments its just not economically feasible for many people - still if you fancy paying for me to learn i might give it a shot ;)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Samson, I never learned to drive either. I like big cities and my parents were getting divorced so 'who teaches the kids to drive' became one more thing to fight about and never get done.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I think its daft to think of it as a rite of passage. I can drive and I do. Its a skill, its moderately useful to me.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:43 (twenty-three years ago)

In the area where I grew up driving was definitely a rite of passage, Ed.

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 10:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Avoiding rites of passage = totally classic though.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Interestingly enough, my family is split between folks who absolutely ADORE driving in an obnoxious boyracer manner (Dad, me, my older brother the UPS guy) and those who absolutely DESPISE it and don't anymore or wouldn't if they didn't live in the sticks (Mom, sister, older brother the voodoo priest, younger brother the tubist). We three all think that the other four are way too reactive and nervous, which causes them to be easily distracted drivers; the other four think we're just WAY too intense. I married an "I hate driving" person, too.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I have a fork-lift truck driving qualification, it's not much use when you want to take a spin out into the country but if anyone fancies being driven around B&Q at the weekend...

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I've never learnt to drive, partly because I still can't concentrate enough on walking down the street without bumping into people accidentally so actually putting me behind a large piece of dangerous machinery is not a great idea. Its also partly because I like drinking too much. Plus I'm always skint.

In my experience, people I know who grew up in London never learnt to drive, although my ex (from Cornwall) learnt as soon as she possibly could do and looked at me as if I was a weirdo when I told her I'd never so much as sat in a driving seat.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Ha! Tim you may have described exactly why she's avoided driving.

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 10:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Me too Lara, do you know where we could go and hire them to race?

― chris (chris), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:47 (twenty-three years ago)

If you're doing fork-lift races then I want to be Natalie Wood dropping the hankie to start...

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm afriad you could only be Paula Abdul and Cabbage would have to be Keanu Reeves.

I AM SO ON FOR FORK-LIFT RACING.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:55 (twenty-three years ago)

But would Natalie Wood smoke during the fork lift race? ; - )

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 10:56 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry, it's illegal.

― health and safety (jel), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:56 (twenty-three years ago)

We'll have to set up a Dan and Ned cock-fighting ring nearby as a decoy.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:57 (twenty-three years ago)

The city-thing doesn't really hold water unless you plan never to go anywhere else. Plus, especially at weekends, driving in London is fine. I couldn't imagine not having a car for holidays etc. Any trip to the USA without a car is a nightmare.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 7 March 2003 10:58 (twenty-three years ago)

The next time you are in London you should attempt to drive your hire-car down Oxford Street on a Saturday.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The city-thing doesn't really hold water unless you plan never to go anywhere else.

In my experience, a lot of Londoners don't. Nowhere they can't take a train to, at any rate.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:01 (twenty-three years ago)

This excludes those who are married with children, obv.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:02 (twenty-three years ago)

And boy-racers with small penises.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:03 (twenty-three years ago)

But planning to live in a remote area and without learning how to drive just is not feasible, to me, anyways.

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 11:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, I've not left London since 1999. My main reason for not driving is the environmental impact one, as I use to tell all my friends and family that I wouldn't learn to drive coz of this, and they would have a field day if I suddenly decided to learn to drive (which, I am contemplating).

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:04 (twenty-three years ago)

If you attempt to drive down oxford st on a satuday, or any other day, you'll be hit with an £80 fine, (My sister did this once, its effectively a bus lane)

― Ed (dali), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:06 (twenty-three years ago)

planning to live in a remote area

This is never going to happen for me in the first place. I like people milling about me, street lighting and being able to buy cigarettes at four in the morning.

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:07 (twenty-three years ago)

The next time you are in London you should attempt to drive your hire-car down Regent Street on a Saturday.

(Hit me with it urban geographers!)

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Her thoughts and feelings on living in a remote area could fill a novel and not a thread on a message board! I think she will be fine.

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 11:08 (twenty-three years ago)

**This excludes those who are married with children, obv**

Why?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't drive but I've got a driving licence.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Still can't drive at 27. Failed 2 tests when I was 18/19 (1st time - dumb mistake, 2nd time - nerves) before lack of money forced me to give up for a while. Not much motivation to continue, since then, as I live in a reasonably urban area with public transport links and my job doesn't require it. Also, I never quite got the hang of enjoying it.

Sister went through similar experience and eventually got her licence at age of 30. Her husband has had a licence for years but utterly hates driving and avoids it wherever possible.

― robster (robster), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:11 (twenty-three years ago)

goddam tourists and their hire cars obstructing the buses

― Ed (dali), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:12 (twenty-three years ago)

never learned bcz i'm too lazy with driving tests etc.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't drive but I've got a driving licence.

There is a difference between driving and navigating...

― Lara (Lara), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I enjoy late night driving when nobody else is on the road. I get a kick out of it!

― S Samson, Friday, 7 March 2003 11:14 (twenty-three years ago)

aww, you think I can drive? you're so sweet.

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Dr C - I don't know, it just seems to me like trying to run a family, especially with small children, when neither partner has a car would be pretty difficult in this day and age. Partly, as you say, for holidays and the like, partly for huge weekly shopping trips, and partly because public transport, even at its best, is not especially child-friendly.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Does one "run" a family? I don't know...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 March 2003 11:19 (twenty-three years ago)

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I thought I was strange for not having gotten my license until I was 20.

― Christine 'Green Leafy Dragon' Indigo (cindigo), Thursday, 6 November 2003 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i got mine at 23

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally and maura, people practice their driving all the time on the area of Manhattan down under the Manhattan Bridge, just west of the FDR Drive. The streets are wide and there is never any traffic at all and plenty of room to practice your angle parking, parallel parking stop signs, etc.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 6 November 2003 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"people"

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, i applaud your courage.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I learned how to drive but don't get much, uh, practice

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i got mine at 19 which is freakish for the rural midwest.

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:40 (twenty-two years ago)

in Manhattan, for serious, also up by 125th where it meets the Hudson

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i got mine at 19 too which is equally freakish in a town without sidewalks

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Animals practice their driving in Midtown, the West Side Highway and SoHo and on I-95.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 6 November 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm.

I got my driver's license when I was 17 but didn't really start driving until I was 19. I thought I was a freak for doing that -- many of my high school classmates started driving right when they were old enough to get a license, i.e. age 16. I didn't go to a driving school, which would've saved me a driving skills test from the DPS people (we have no DMV in the state of Texas), but I did have the advantage of having my father teach me how to drive, and my dad was this really amazingly great driver. This means I passed both the written and actual driving tests "with flying colors".

In my parochial-mindedness, I look askance at those Americans who don't drive or don't know how to drive. In Britain, the whole process of driving is much more intimidating because of having to learn how to drive a stick shift and because driving overall is more confusing, so I could understand being a bit shy about those things. But in America, driving is easy and I can't really see how one wouldn't be able to drive or even want to drive.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 6 November 2003 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm 36 and have never learned to drive. I also have a kid. Do I miss it? Nope.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 6 November 2003 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

you can't miss what you never had!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.victoriajackson.com/pics_toonces.jpg

But in America, driving is easy and I can't really see how one wouldn't be able to drive or even want to drive

one would live in a place where everything is accessible by public transportation, sometimes more easily so than by car, and where one's rent/mortgage takes up a much larger part of their income than anywhere else

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 6 November 2003 04:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Ahhh, gabbneb, to actually live in such places.

*stops daydreaming [but not about the sky-high mortgage payments UGH]*

But unfortunately, people such as myself live in places where it is absolutely necessary to drive in order to live any semblance of a normal life. And driving is damn easy. You don't have to actually own a vehicle in order to know how to drive, nor does having a driver's license instantly mean you should now own a vehicle and drive everywhere you go.

But point taken. Even though the scenario you described really applies to a rather small percentage of all Americans.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 6 November 2003 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

My girlfriend is completely exasperated by my lack of interest in cars - esp. classic American cars.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 6 November 2003 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

What sky-high mortgage payments? You can get a nice house in an up-and-coming neighborhood in Portland for under $200,000 -- under $150,000 if you know what you're doing. Is SA really that much cheaper?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 6 November 2003 04:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I got my driver's license the day I turned 16. I got a cdl when I was 19. I am a menace on the road.

ally, i have gotten paid to teach people to drive before. If you ever want to practice and tom is not around you can use my car and we can pretend to hit people on Bedford.

― Carey (Carey), Thursday, 6 November 2003 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Can't drive, won't drive. I am Mr Bus 'n' Train. When I want to treat myself I catch a taxi. 'Home, James'!

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 6 November 2003 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i ain't no taxi driver

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 6 November 2003 05:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Even though the scenario you described really applies to a rather small percentage of all Americans.

right (~5%, estimating conservatively), and a rather large percentage of ILXors, US and otherwise

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 6 November 2003 05:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Drivers smell.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 6 November 2003 05:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I learned once but I forgot. Someone lend me money, plz.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Thursday, 6 November 2003 06:21 (twenty-two years ago)

If you want to learn to drive in NYC, well - QUEENS EXISTS FOR A REASON!!!

I learned to drive when I was a teenager, and trapped in the wilds of upstate NY, four miles from the nearest bus stop. None of my friends in NYC could drive, and now very few of my friends in London can drive. For a long time, I was in Ed's position of being the only person people knew who could drive, and I would have resented it if it hadn't been so good for my social life.

However, in the UK, I've resisted learning to drive English style. Sometimes I regret it, but mostly I don't, as I'm pretty much conceptually against driving. (Yeah, I know that it's an ugly reality in most of the developped world, but I would rather focus on *why*, and on what we can do to make it less so - improving public transport, etc.) I've driven once since I was in the UK, and it was totally traumatic, so I never tried it again.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

(I recommend starting on a stick because the stick -> automatic transition is much easier than automatic -> stick).
-- Dan Perry (djper....), November 5th, 2003 8:24 PM. (later) (link)

That's crazy talk. In all likelihood she won't ever need to drive stick

If you ever come to europe and need to drive you will need to know how to use a manual transmission, 80% and more of European cars are manual. Until very recently manual cars were way more fuel efficient than automatics. Dan is quite right about it being easier to go from manual to automatic than the other way round, plus you can pretend you are a rally driver on twisty roads (NB: not recommended driving practice)

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never even wanted to learn how to drive; I live in a country where the public transport is well organized and reasonably cheap. Private cars are a major, major cause of pollution and other environmental problems, and I think they should be restricted to the disabled and other folks who really need them.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I passed my test at 20 & love driving. J doesn't drive (soon to be rectified) which can be pretty frustrating at times as for obvious reasons the driving always falls to me.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

However, if you are nervous about driving, and don't think you can concentrate on the road and changing gear at the same time, then it may well be worth starting off in a manual, at least until you get more confident on the road.

There seem to be more automatics in the uk these days, and it should be easy enough to get an automatic hire car, if you were just over on holiday.

I learnt in and drove a manual, but 'inherited' an automatic, and I've gone from being very scathing about them, to absolutely loving it.

― Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It is actually easier to learn to drive in an automatic, and then switch to manual once you're more accustomed to the mechanics of driving. Throwing too much at a person all at once can destroy their confidence and make them never want to drive again.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I am a semi-alcoholic/narcoleptic, and anyway am too poor. So I never learnt. I did a few lessons, but I knew that one day I'd kill someone.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, where I grew up, if I *didn't* learn to drive, I would have eventually killed someone. Possibly one of my parents.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Why?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:57 (twenty-two years ago)

You really don't want to know. It's a long and involved story.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

It sounds kinda sad that someone must learn how to drive...

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, if you live in the middle of the countryside and you can't afford taxis and your parents won't give you lifts, how else are you going to be teenage?

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:03 (twenty-two years ago)

That's how America is! Four miles to the nearest bus stop, two miles to the nearest railroad crossing and a gas station style hamlet of a village... ::shudders::

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

That's sad. Public transport should be available to everyone.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, it should. But it's really not exactly practical in places where your nearest neighbours can be 20 miles away! You start to understand the American obsession with the car when you see how far-flung out everything is! And that was upstate NY, which is fairly populated in comparison with a lot of the US!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Public transport should be available to everyone

It just can't happen though, can it? Imagine!

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Huh? In most countries of the South most people don't own cars, and they're still perfectly happy with it. Also, two or four miles isn't that much... Two of my friends used to live in a cottage which was five kilometers from the nearest road and the nearest bus stop, and they still managed to get by. It all depends how you arrange your time. Anyway, if everyone in the Third World countries would have a car like we (or you) do in the North, the planet couldn't possibly sustain the ecological damage; it's hard enough as it is nowadays. So we're setting a pretty bad example here.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, if everyone in the Third World countries would have a car like we (or you) do in the North, the planet couldn't possibly sustain the ecological damage; it's hard enough as it is nowadays. So we're setting a pretty bad example here.

Well, I don't can't drive and anyway I live in a town as all sane ppl should so don't need it. But whaddaya mean 'set a good example' -- isn't that a bit patronizing? In moderation car use is a necessary evil, unless you actually want to live in the 18th century.

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay let's put this way: the number of cars in the Third World countries is on a constant rise, and if the percentage of cars will rise as high as it is the Western countries, it'll be disastrous. But we can't really criticize this process without being hypocritical unless we ourselves lessen our car use drastically. Of course this applies to all consumerism; the current Western lifestyle simply isn't economically sustainable, and at some point the rampant consumption must be stopped unless we want to face major crisis. Like it or not, the Western lifestyle is something a lot of third world people thrive for, so unless we do something about it we're headed for big trouble.

In moderation car use is a necessary evil, unless you actually want to live in the 18th century.

In moderation, yes, and that means all those who don't absolutely necessarily need a private car (i.e. almost everyone except the disabled, maybe) should use public transport and it should be available for as many as possible.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Sure, yeah -- look I'm purer than pure I CAN'T DRIVE which gives me the right to say -- ah, fuck it, let's go to armageddon in a big souped up chevy cos everything is shit and there is no god and there's nothing to live for.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Look, I can (technically) drive, but I choose not to, for reasons like Tuomas outlines above. This doesn't make me "purer than anyone else" or anything like that. I'm lucky because I live in an area with good public transportation, so I have this option, which many people in America *don't*.

People do need to cut down on private transport, for the good of the whole world and the world's resources. But this is never going to happen until public transport gets a whole lot better. Which it's never going to do until people put money into it that they would otherwise spend on private transport - which they don't, because they don't have access to it. It's a Catch 22.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought making public transport work was the state's and the municipalities' job. At least it is in here, and it works fine. I think you need also to change people's attitudes, so they wouldn't think they can't survive without their own car.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought making public transport work was the state's and the municipalities' job.

That's still ppl's money!! A choice to be made. In the US they have cheap gas and low taxes.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Still, apparently some governments choose to support public transport and others don't; also, some tax gas for being ecologically unsafe and others don't. It's not an irreversible situation.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

What I mean is, ppl in America wouldn't vote for that kind of set-up (in any case, I think comprehensive public transport is an impossibility there). In an urban country like the UK I think there's more of a hope, but not if greensters go round guilting ppl out.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 6 November 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

In the US they have cheap gas and low taxes.

Not for much longer if they keep going to war to support that cheap gas...

But I'm not going to go there. Nope.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Thursday, 6 November 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

What I mean is, ppl in America wouldn't vote for that kind of set-up

That's why I said you should change people's attitudes first.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 6 November 2003 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

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People Who Never Learned to Drive - Classic or Dud.