What is happening in US clubs?

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A lot of people have dies recently in three dfisasters. I take it these things are regulated city by city. it appears to be worse bad a some of the worst moments of the late 80s and 90s in the UK, what can be done to avoid these deaths. Are these events exceptions or the rule? What are US clubs like anyway?

Ed (dali), Sunday, 9 March 2003 20:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I went to a show at a millspace where 8 punk kids live and they didn't seem to have made much improvements to their fire safety. There were several exits but you'd have to know the place ok to find them. I definately could have.

Jon Williams (ex machina), Sunday, 9 March 2003 21:03 (twenty-three years ago)

What are US clubs like anyway?

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donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 9 March 2003 21:11 (twenty-three years ago)

right now? probably not too much (sunday, 2pm PST).

gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:09 (twenty-three years ago)

(but you know that in madrid there is probably some club that opens at 2pm on sunday).

gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:10 (twenty-three years ago)

hell there's clubs in sheffield which open at midday on sunday.

Ed (dali), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:12 (twenty-three years ago)

They are like this:

Honestly it was a hotbed of slug sin. There were slugs in feathered head-dresses dancing, and slugs drinking absinthe and being letchy, slugs doing little dance of the seven veils strip shows, slugs with cigars in little fedoras, slugs tucking slug money into the slug garter belts of other slugs.

It was either salt, or finding decent God-fearing slugs to come and preach at them.

-- Anna (Fieldingann...), September 4th, 2002 7:08 PM.

That Girl (thatgirl), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:18 (twenty-three years ago)

(but you know that in madrid there is probably some club that opens at 2pm on sunday).
-- gygax!, March 9th, 2003. (later)

hell there's clubs in sheffield which open at midday on sunday.
-- Ed, March 9th, 2003. (later)

i knew that would be misintrepeted... i just remember in madrid we didn't go out until after midnight and some clubs wouldn't open until 6-8am on sunday... lousy attempt at humor, i know.

gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

when gatecrasher was still the thing it used to go gatecrasher 10pm-6am, Insommniacz 4am-12pm, and I can't remember what 12pm -10:30pm. Not that I ever did, hard house and trance just aren't my thing.

Ed (dali), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

US clubs are places where people go to see and be seen, to spend money and have a good time. Often there is either a marquee DJ or live music involved. Sometimes the live music consists of cover songs or variations on old standards, other times the musicians play original songs and sell t-shirts at the door. Some clubs involve DJs and bands together in different rooms throughout very large buildings, with many different bars and occasional fancy-dress boys and girls walking through the crowd proffering 'shooters', usually drinks with several different kinds of liquor, brightly colored and with flashy names.

Often at clubs there is an element of drug use and crime flowing throughout the crowd. People sometimes go to clubs to score drugs such as Ecstasy, cocaine or acid, and dealers of these substances are often on hand to provide them what they want. Sometimes fights break out and blood is spilt, usually among young men, though no one can ever remember why afterwards.

Getting into a club can be very difficult or very easy. Some clubs are 'all-ages' and allow anyone inside, providing that they can show a form of government identification that proves their legal status re: consumption of alcohol. Drinking is a very important part of the US club experience and it is considered impossible to run a successful club without selling beer at inflated prices to the crowd. This requires a liquor license from the local government, which may threaten to repeal it if the club is found in violation of any number of laws including fire safety regulations, underage drinking, smoking and drug statutes. As a result of this, club owners may enforce tougher door policies to prevent certain elements of society from entering. Clubs may also enforce a 'dress code' of sorts in order to make the experience more fancy for everyone inside.

US clubs have calmed down a great deal since the days of dropping amyls into the ventilator at Studio 54; however, they remain a vibrant and sometimes dangerous world of fun and risk for young and old alike across this wonderful country.

Millar (Millar), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:43 (twenty-three years ago)

That sounds like a press release.

Ed (dali), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:46 (twenty-three years ago)

You asked.

Millar (Millar), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:48 (twenty-three years ago)

it provides very little information as to why these tradgedies are happening right now. Is it unhappy coincidence or is there something more to be said about the unscrupulous nature of club owners.

Ed (dali), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Club owners aren't in my mind any more unscrupulous on the whole than members of any other entrepreneurial profession. I think the Great White incident and the trampling in Chicago are unhappy coincidence obviously and if anything they have much more to do with blind panic on the part of drunk people in crowds rather than evil or negligent management. The Chicago incident especially seems just a horribly unfortunate result of someone's overreaction (and the current warning climate).

Millar (Millar), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:56 (twenty-three years ago)

news stories of a feather flock together

ron (ron), Sunday, 9 March 2003 23:03 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't see the Chicago nightclub and Times Square stories as that related. Chicago was a problem because fire code violations turned an average nightclub scuffle into a deathtrap, whereas the Times Square victims were victims of actual psycho urban violence. One can be minimized or avoided without a complete overhaul of the gun laws, the other really can't.

There was a similar deathtrap incident at a night club ("social club") in Harlem a few years ago where a bunch of people were horribly trambled after a fire. The common element is the lack of enforcement of the fire code and cabaret licenses. Clearly, the prevention would be to enforce cabaret licensing more strictly as has happened nearly to a fault under Guiliani in New York but that too has its detractors. When clubs are licensed, they search at the door for things like pepper spray, metal, magic markers, almost anything, but these underground clubs have no fear of losing their license. The downside is having the Chicago Police all up in your shizznitt all the time (as you may know, Chicago has lots of problems), but the fact that this happened in the near South Side is why it's getting international press. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that this type of tragedy is underreported.

What do you think of the cricket riot fatalities in India and can they be prevented in the future?

felicity (felicity), Monday, 10 March 2003 01:14 (twenty-three years ago)

great white club tradj was a roadhouse disater. west warwick is an sailor port, working class. chicago, nyc different stories. along these lines, people do get stabbed all the time, in the "meathead"clubs; the gangbanger-techno type clubs, from what i hear.
the indy/rock club scene in boston/nyc is harmless. when was the last time stereolab or cul de sac had pyro on stage ya know??

kephm, Monday, 10 March 2003 21:48 (twenty-three years ago)

two words:

crash worship

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 10 March 2003 21:57 (twenty-three years ago)

i think that much of this is coincidence... however, i can imagine that it is getting more difficult to run a legal club in this country. electronic music events, especially in the midwest (from what i have heard), routinely get busted even if proper permits have been obtained. at one point, the us government was prosecuting a few promoters under the so-called "crackhouse law" which states that if drugs are being done in certain places, the owner can be held responsible for those actions and put into jail for 25 years. the charges were eventually dropped. glowsticks, among other raver accessories, were actually written into a proposed law as "drug paraphanelia", but that didnt pass either, thankfully.

guiliani's administration revived the idea of the cabaret liscence. the liscence permits dancing (right?) in clubs, and the law was written in the early 20th century, and, if i remember correctly, there was a racist motivation for it.

also, a number of large clubs have been shut down, most notably twilo and buzz here in DC. i think drugs were an issue in both closures, and also the fact that twilo was using a private ambulance firm.

most of the above is not directly related to the tragedies that have recently occured, but i wonder if any of these events could have been prevented if the relationship between club owners and the police wasnt so antagonistic?

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 10 March 2003 22:02 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the Great White incident and the trampling in Chicago are unhappy coincidence obviously and if anything they have much more to do with blind panic on the part of drunk people in crowds rather than evil or negligent management.

The RI event happened in a wood structure that allegedly was using flammable material for soundproofing. If the latter is proven the owners are going to be hit with some serious lawsuits.

If I correctly remember articles about the Chicago incident, the owner didn't have a license to run a club on the second floor and the police previously had tried to bust the owner for letting in too many people relative to the number of exits. Although the stampede sure didn't help.

when was the last time stereolab or cul de sac had pyro on stage ya know??

Last week Skeleton Key's second percussionist whipped out a buzzsaw and applied it to one of his pieces of junk; sparks flew but didn't catch anything. I wonder what would have happened if the local police patrol had been there at the time. (The Black Cat has been making a point of cooperating with the local police [undoubtedly because the club wants to increase their legal permitted capacity]. Whenever I go there at least once during the night I see a uniformed policeman checking out the place.)

j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 10 March 2003 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I just read abt the 42nd St. incident today, so I am now wondering about all this. Club owners have always violated safety regulations, but all of a suddent people are in the news apparently dying because of it. I tend to think that the real cause lies elsewhere. In all three cases panic and stampeding led to more deaths and injuries than would have occurred otherwise, and I think this may have more to do with the current warning climate and people's paranoia than we might at first presume. I for one have been scoping out clubs and purposefully spending less time underneath lighting rigs, even though to be quite frank my daily workplace is much more of a target than any DC/Balto nightclub.

Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:04 (twenty-three years ago)

It may also have something to do with that inexplicable journalistic phenomena of suddenly giving a lot more attention to a story that otherwise would have gotten half a paragraph on page 10 after your competitors make a BIG HUGE deal out of a similar story. Or not.

-M, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 01:44 (twenty-three years ago)


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