COO: English English v American English

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In present day global terms, which "language" is more relevant.

Ginger Baker's Hairpiece, Friday, 14 March 2003 03:26 (twenty-three years ago)

This thread is silly and is designed to provoke bashing of one side or the other. English English and American English are as different as American Republicans and Demoncrats, which is to say, not very, and in no fundamental way. The spelling of a handful of word forms varies--slightly--and some nominal forms vary, but no more so than regionally in the U.S. or Britain themselves. Klassenkampf always comes into this argument too, which isn't fair: A West Virginia hillbilly accent and an Oxford drawl may be mutually-unintelligible, but, so would they be to different strata in their respective countries. W.F. Buckley and Prince Philip probably would have little trouble understanding each other, but neither could talk to anyone in Brixton or Detroit.

Far more interesting are the hairpieces of celebrities, cf. G.Baker's Hairpiece, Yaphet Koto's, Ted Danson's, Bea Arthur's, etc.

Skottie, Friday, 14 March 2003 03:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Ted Danson has a hairpiece? wow.

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 14 March 2003 03:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Yaphet and Ted I've actually seen. With Bea, I can only dream...

Skottie, Friday, 14 March 2003 04:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Revolting, filthy dreams, sure, but there you are...

Skottie, Friday, 14 March 2003 04:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks Skottie for your wonderful insight. Isn't the world a better place that you a place an intention in a place where it really isn't? If you look at parts of the world like the Asian Subcontinent and parts of Africa like Nigeria, English English has been far more influential there than American English. But I believe it is changing with American English's dominance of all sorts of media from the pervasiveness of Gangster Rap to long and twisted arms of American television shows like Bay Watch and the Young and the Restless. Americanism like "bust a cap in his ass" even made it into English movies like "Snatch." I believe American English has more influence these days in the United Kingdom than English English does in America.

Ginger Baker's Hairpiece, Friday, 14 March 2003 04:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm glad you're intention is serious--threads like this usually devolve into bashing, there are numerous examples here...

But anyway, I don't think our positions are that far apart actually. I'm saying there's little difference between the English used in Britain & the USA, you're saying the cultural dominance of the USA is greater because of exported media products. Sure, I buy that, but supporting my point is that no one in England has any difficulty understanding what "bust a cap in his ass" means. There aren't two languages in the same way that say India has hundreds of languages that all derive from Sanskrit but are mutually unintelligble. Even the local dialects in a country like Germany are not necessarily understood from town to town.

I believe American English has more influence these days in the United Kingdom than English English does in America.

And I'm saying that America has more influence in the UK than the UK has in the US but that this is cultural/economic imperialism with language as one of many of the vehicles, but that the language isn't a significant difference between the countries.

Skottie, Friday, 14 March 2003 04:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I think you may be underestimating the divides between the meaning of spoken words of different dialects that spring from the same language. There are definitely barriers between generations.
Teenagers can move in and out of a dialect that is unintelligible to their grandparents.There are certainly certainly differences in regional dialect and economics levels. I have a hard time understanding urban dialect that is heavy in the use of words like "peeps, shorties, blounts, fat ones, geezer, skranks, skeezers, bling blings and tadows." The way the language is used is influenced in great part by one's perception and station in life. Yes, a bloke across the great pond can understand "bust a cap in his ass." That is because he has been influenced by one of many Americanisms to escape North America. And, I think it part, not all, of the the Globalization of America.
I even see it creeping into former British strongholds like India. In flicks like Monsoon Wedding I heard some Americanism and the talk show that was in the movie mentioned the American influence on India as dangerous rather than a British one.
I don't think it a force in modern empire building but a product of it, for sure.

Ginger Baker's Hairpiece, Friday, 14 March 2003 04:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Speaing of empire building, I choose Jamaican English. Full of diminuitives.

"Flippy floppy the burger on the griddle, mon. I saw you last night."

felicity (felicity), Friday, 14 March 2003 05:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Patois v. creole v. pidgin FITE!

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 14 March 2003 05:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Assuming American English has a greater influence over English as world language on the basis of American English dominating the mass media isn't a good theory. Linguists have done studies on the impact television, movies, etc. have on language and effect is negligible.

Slang and catchphrases spread far and wide but have little long-lasting impact... that's just the nature of slang. Other features of dialect like prosody, lexicon and syntax do not seem to be affected at all by mass media.

-fh

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 14 March 2003 10:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Accents I can usually recognize and their stereotypical signifiers, in no particular order:

Proper mid-western (bland American):?
Down East: 'Ayyyuh' ('yes')
Boston: 'Cah'
New York: 'new yawk' (thought about "f&*) you", but thought better)
Philly: (included only cuz a friend insists there's such a thing)
Tidewater: (can't think of a word, but I can recognize this accent)
"Proper" Southern: (think Scarlett O'Hara)
Redneck Southern: (think Toby Keith)
Redneck Mid-western: 'warsh', of course
Texan: 'noocyoolar' 'Amurkin'
Cajun: ?
Minnesota: (drawn out o sounds, sing-songy intonations)
Canada: 'Aboot'
Scots: ('aye's, rolling r's- can't miss this one)
Aussie: you know
Strine: impenetrable
Jamaican: 'mon'
Sow thefrican: a's become e's, pinched sounding
Standard brit: (think Madonna)
Cockney: 'wiv'
Geezer: (that Streets guy)
Liverpudlian: (watch as I offend- is this called scouse? Think Beatles. And question: what is the northern thing with the 'nowt's in it?)
Irish: ?
Indian: (sorry, but I can't get Apu's voice out of my head)
Native American: (I can't explain it but I recognize it, it comes across as kind of detached and meditative. Or I've seen too many movies)
Many regional ebonics: (I'm not qualified here)
California: (Uh, I don't know, mostly proper mid-western sounding with "like" punctuating it?)

Hunter (Hunter), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:50 (twenty-three years ago)

That made me laugh for a long time.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Nice one, Hunter. (There is such a thing as a "Philelphia" accent.)

felicity (felicity), Friday, 14 March 2003 21:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Philadelphia is actual an active breeding ground for linguistic deviation, according to some linguist or other.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 14 March 2003 21:13 (twenty-three years ago)

There's also a Pittsburgh accent, which makes most others sound very worldly indeed. . . http://www.pittsburghese.com/

mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 14 March 2003 21:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Aw, thanks.

Philadelphia is actual an active breeding ground for linguistic deviation, according to some linguist or other.

It seems to hover there, like the worlds easiest overhead smash. Someone? SOMEONE??

Hunter (Hunter), Friday, 14 March 2003 21:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Active breeding ground for linguistic deviation? This just gets better and better.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 14 March 2003 23:33 (twenty-three years ago)

"There is such a thing as a 'Philelphia' accent."

I really don't notice this accent at all, maybe it's because I am just used to it so much.

A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 14 March 2003 23:40 (twenty-three years ago)

It's subtle, like the Five Towns (New York) accent. But it's out there.

felicity (felicity), Friday, 14 March 2003 23:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Phil-dulfya people say "wooder" for H20.

Tidewater Virginia is canadian with a slight southern accent: they say a-boot too.

Skottie, Saturday, 15 March 2003 00:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Phil-dulfya people say "wooder" for H20.

Ha ha, I was trying to remember that one. My ex from Montgomery County spoke like that.

My 57th Street dentist likes to crack himself up asking me to say "roof" in my suburban Chicago accent and "What do you call that big long sandwich that you eat? A 'sub'? With a 'pop'? Ha ha ha."

felicity (felicity), Saturday, 15 March 2003 00:35 (twenty-three years ago)

"Phil-dulfya people say 'wooder' for H20."

whoa, yeah you're right.

A Nairn (moretap), Saturday, 15 March 2003 00:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually that thing about California/Midwest, not simply a "like" thing if that even applies even more, but words like such as soil" are here (CA) two syllables but one in Nebraska.

Leee (Leee), Saturday, 15 March 2003 01:55 (twenty-three years ago)


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