Do you think the majority of human lives have been happy ones?

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Historically speaking, has happiness or unhappiness been the default condition for humanity? Should our answer to this affect how we approach our own lives?

Tom (Groke), Saturday, 15 March 2003 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the fact that we can be unhappy/unfulfilled is what drives a lot of us to do whatever it is that we do in our lives.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 15 March 2003 17:05 (twenty-three years ago)

misery=default condition and the fact that we can 'approach' our lives in any fashion is wishful thinking

dave q, Saturday, 15 March 2003 17:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I think most people just get on with their lives, and swing from despair to vague positivity. I suspect that even those whose lives are objectively awful do not live in permanent states of misery.

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 15 March 2003 17:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Historically speaking, I guess not. I don't actually believe that happiness is or should be a constant state for humans, coz it's unsustainable anyhow, as discontent lurks.

Personally, I like being happy, but I know it won't last, but also think it'll come again. So, I guess I believe more in hope than happiness.

jel -- (jel), Saturday, 15 March 2003 17:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Something I was thinkingh about last night, is there a stigma attached to being happy?

jel -- (jel), Saturday, 15 March 2003 17:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Even I'm not permanently miserable. Close, but not quite.

I do hate it when people say stuff like 'life's what you make it' and 'you can do anything you want,' though. Ultimate mother's milk for control freaks, no doubt, but a lot of bull in reality. What I can't do, obviously, is make anyone like me or make someone give me the job I'd like to do... I can try to influence those things, but it's always going to be at least partly out of my hands.

ChristineSH (chrissie1068), Saturday, 15 March 2003 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Historically speaking, has happiness or unhappiness been the default condition for humanity? Should our answer to this affect how we approach our own lives?

Any attempt to answer this question earnestly is going to make me feel like I'm speaking on behalf of all humanity, and that's a big weight, Mr. Ewing.

That said, I think most of humanity (and dare I say most mammals) has some sort of way to convert what is immediately around them -- their beliefs, their environment, their family, their life experiences -- into some form of hope and happiness. What form that takes on -- whether it's religion, physical activity, having cool stuff, solitude -- differs greatly from group to group.

That said, I think one's idea of happiness in their world is going to translate negatively to another, or seem like another person's hell. And vice versa.

I feel I'm extremely lucky compared to most of the rest of the human race, and I do treat others assuming they know that and therefore as kindly and humbly as possible.

donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 15 March 2003 18:42 (twenty-three years ago)

most people tghroughout the ages have probebly mostly been "still got yer 'ealth"

matthew james (matthew james), Saturday, 15 March 2003 18:46 (twenty-three years ago)

i think it is possible to have an approach to life, in the sense that you have goals, ambitions and whatnot. but i suspect that doing so would preclude happiness in its purest sense, which for me would involve lack of desire, and 'going with the flow' / middle of the road tao-ish anti-wisdom. which is an approach of it's own, i guess, but of a different sort - approaching life by attempting to avoid approaching it?

ron (ron), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:27 (twenty-three years ago)

more like forgetting to approach it

ron (ron), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:28 (twenty-three years ago)

i dont like the fact that people assume that if you're not happy then you must be unhappy. i think most people spend their lives in the 'limbo' state between the two. if you asked me right now if i am happy then i would probably say no but thats only because i have an idea of what my life SHOULD be like and currently it is not like that. relative freedom in a capitalist society affords such thinking. perhaps others in the world, esp. in the past did not consider things like that.

just the idea that in human history people have been 'unhappy' is horrible. likewise 'happiness' makes little sense in this context. joy and pain are like two sides to the coin that is your life after all, yeh yeh karma bollocks i know. so basically while i guess you can look at someone's life and say they were mostly happy or unhappy its all relative, even down to their cultural disposition (is 'happiness' considered the target in ALL cultures and ideologies?)

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:30 (twenty-three years ago)

also, its the 'pursuit of happiness' that drives most people in life though to actually attain it then MAINtain it is a whole different kettle of fish. some people go mad because they can't deal with the fact they can do anything they want (e.g. extremely rich people). i'll probably spend the rest of my life thinking about the next thing i'd need to make my life that bit more 'complete' thus make me happy...this is a basic 'reason for living' tho it is very self-centred and the irony is 'happiness' and 'contentment' are more likely to be found devoting your life to helping others and making the world a better place and not worrying so much about what you think you want (as opposed to what you need).

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

is there a stigma attached to being happy?

Cheerful people sometimes get written off as Pollyannas, and the implication is that they aren't "honestly" looking at the world around them.

Still, I'm not sure. I've read philosophical claims that to some degree how one perceives one's situation -- good or bad -- is the key to happiness or unhappiness. However, if someone tried to say that to me, I would be breaking the nearest chair over his head. But then I'm in a rotten mood, and spoiling for a fight.

j.lu (j.lu), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not even sure what I want/need anymore. I've very nearly reached a point where I regard life as essentially futile and disturbingly brief. Society seems too much like a bizarre game that I'm just totally no good at playing.

ChristineSH (chrissie1068), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:41 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree with Jel, happiness is an essentially fleeting condition and nothing to aim for, just enjoy it when it arrives and try not mourn it's passing. I also agree with ron, but I'd characterise this as contentment (I think there is are quite big differences between this and happines), which I believe is more attainable/sustainable.

I think the default condition for humanity is a deep seated sense of loneliness rather than unhappiness, and an extremely difficult feeling to evade. A friend of mine, a former psychiatric nurse, recently described loneliness as the engine that drives all behaviours, which reminded me of an old David Toop article in whch he called it the thing that makes us buy too many CDs, drink too much and screw the wrong people.

Nathan Webb (Nathan Webb), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:41 (twenty-three years ago)

why are humans so dependent on other humans is interesting...

i don't buy the 'driven by loneliness' thing completely because thats the ultimate definition of the word i.e. we are all alone together in the universe or whatever, regardless of whether you have loads of friends and someone who loves you...are there more people in the world who DON'T have that than do?

people are always getting depressed because of all the shit going on in the world, forgetting all the great stuff that happens every day on the very same planet. why does unhappiness seem to take precedence over happiness? perhaps its because unhappiness actually offers the hope of resolving the situation whereas happiness 'merely' offers something of a cul-de-sac i.e. once you're happy you're reluctant to do anything else for fear of losing that happiness...but you can look at that another way of course because happiness and contentment neednt be chained to each other so.

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I have three words for you:

1) Nasty
2) Brutish
3) Short

That is all.

kate (suzy), Saturday, 15 March 2003 20:04 (twenty-three years ago)

You're talking about me there, aren't you?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 15 March 2003 20:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Kate, this is no time to bring Blur up.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 15 March 2003 20:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought it was about former Leeds and Newcastle hardman David Batty

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 15 March 2003 21:50 (twenty-three years ago)

>>Historically speaking, has happiness or unhappiness been the default condition for humanity? Should our answer to this affect how we approach our own lives? <<

I have a feeling people may generally be more pessimstic/negative, but that may be due to the people I've been friends with over the years or people that I've met (I've run across many a social outcast). Its kind of like saying, "do you feel people are generally for or against war in the US?" and answering "no", but only having discussed the possible conflict with a few fellow college friends of yours, your philosophy professor, and viewing a couple episodes of The Daily Show. Not to knock the Daily Show (which is probably the finest source of news in the US today, sadly), but generally your friends and family share your interests and feelings about events, and therefore may blind you to what other believe or feel.

-
Alan

Alan Conceicao, Sunday, 16 March 2003 05:19 (twenty-three years ago)

batty's still on leeds' books... played for the legends this weekend. whilst still in the reserves, poor lad. needs a runout.

matthew james (matthew james), Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:27 (twenty-three years ago)

i read an article in usa today or something once that said people in western cultures are generally more happy and more lonely than people in eastern cultures, because western people view life in terms of individual happiness whereas the eastern viewpoint emphasizes group welfare and duty more.

Maria (Maria), Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:39 (twenty-three years ago)

stevem is really OTM here. The "limbo" state seems much more common for myself personally than happiness or unhappiness. That's the default I think, not unhappiness or loneliness.

Vinnie (vprabhu), Monday, 17 March 2003 02:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't answer this question. I deliberately surround myself with miserable people. :-)

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 March 2003 02:53 (twenty-three years ago)

The question assumes that you could accurately label a life as 'happy' or 'unhappy'. Obv no person's life is going to be all happy or all unhappy. Then you get into how much of their life was happy and how much was unhappy. This is impossible to tell, even if you are evaluating your own life. Even if you could somehow add up all the happy and unhappy moments, would they all have the same weight, i.e. is the birth of your child happy enough to eliminate 20 moderately unhappy moments? This is ridiculously academic.
The question just seems pointless and indeterminable. Even if you could get an answer--let's say 95% of people have lived an unhappy life--why would this change how you lived?

oops (Oops), Monday, 17 March 2003 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

My life changed drastically when one day I realized that happiness and life-events are NOT intrinsically linked together...that it's entirely possible to be happy/fulfilled in one's life, even when events aren't going in your favor; but similarly, I also realized that it's just as possible to be unhappy/unfulfilled in life when events are going in your favor. It's not entirely bullshit to say "life is what you make of it", but it's probably more accurate to say "life is as good as you want it to be".

nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 March 2003 18:59 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe "life is how you look at it"?

oops (Oops), Monday, 17 March 2003 19:01 (twenty-three years ago)

This is an impossible question to answer. Most people aren't happy or unhappy by default, they're just there.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 March 2003 19:06 (twenty-three years ago)

So, I guess I believe more in hope than happiness.
Me too.

Sarah MCLusky (coco), Monday, 17 March 2003 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm with nick and oops that most human problems are problems of perception, and that it's possible to be very happy when things aren't going your way.

i think that the majority of dog lives have been happy ones.

dan (dan), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 01:40 (twenty-three years ago)

The only criterion I can think of applying here is, "Are most people, at the end of their lives, glad they were born?" If your answer is no then I suggest you see a health professional. Seriously.

I deliberately surround myself with miserable people.

I thought this was why most of us post here...

B.Rad (Brad), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 02:14 (twenty-three years ago)

bingo.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 04:20 (twenty-three years ago)

"Nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so" - probably a misquote from Shakespeare, because I'm at work and without my books to check.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 12:25 (twenty-three years ago)


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