Certified Mail (Letters): aren't they always legal stuff (i.e. subpoenas) if you're not expecting anything?

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The ol' mailman for once left me a very detailed notification slip that there was a certified piece of mail waiting for me at the post office, which is a letter. He went to the trouble of writing a 20-digit article number on the back of the slip, but neglected to fill in the blank where it says "SENDER".

Typically, if my mailman actually decides to do his job and leave me a slip, it is for some expensive order I've purchased over the internet and then he marks the slip as "3rd and final attempt" and scribbles something illegible in the "SENDER" slot, so I go down having no idea if the package is still there or who it's from.

This time, he's taken carful consideration to write down a 20-digit number, which I checked on usps.com and found out it's in their computer database as "delivery attempted, slip left".

Since this is such a much bigger effort than he usually makes... and it's just a LETTER, I'm suspecting it's a tax audit or similar annoyance, because if it was an expensive package from Amazon.com or some other such thing, you can bet it would already be on it's way back to the warehouse, since he's usually too lazy to actually inform me of packages on time (and he certainly never goes to the trouble to write 20 whole digits for the "article number".

The other thing that makes me suspicious is the "SENDER" slot is left blank.

Should I go down and sign for this mystery certified letter? I'm thinking I will go down, present the slip and let them know that I don't intend to sign for it until I see who it's from. I just hope they don't keep record that says "refused by recipient" in the case it is some legal bullshit.

Advice?

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Have you done something illegal?

Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Incidentally, I'm too broke to afford legal representation of any sort and I knw for a fact that if the IRS subpoenas you, they bring you into a private court (because by accepting the subpoena, you've accepted the terms of the subpoena) and the judge is typically a former member of the IRS or at least very much acting in the IRS' interests.

By the way, I've done nothing illegal as far as taxes go, but I just know that if I get roped into such a battle, I will be up shit creek without a paddle, as they say.

I have actually paid taxes every single year, but just the fact that I've gone in and out of freelance employment as well as receiving unemployment benefits after 911 has me paranoid. I just feel like receiving unemployment was probably a "red flag" that I exist and a good opportunity to audit me or some shit.... I've never been audited, but I know that you're basically at their mercy w/o great legal representation. If they decide to throw heaps of bullshit at me, I really have no idea what I could do in my defense without a lawyer, even if the penalties are a mere few thousand dollars (which is about as much as they could possibly be -- $1-2,000 absolute max, I would guess-- but being flat broke, this is a lot for me).

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:32 (twenty-three years ago)

It's not that I'm paranoid about something ILLEGAL I've done, because I haven't done anything illegal. It's the fact that this is a certified LETTER and even the most expensive packages I order are not CERTIFIED unless I specifically ask for it. Also, I have no clue who would be mailing ANY letter to my via CERTIFIED MAIL whatsoever. I have no pressing engagements or orders or deals with major companies, etc. and all my friends send me stuff by plain old regular mail AT BEST.

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Listen, I send certified mail all the time. I mean, not to personal contacts but at work. Tenants and stuff, and just regular notices, stuff I'd need a receipt for to prove they got it. Sometimes I get mail order stuff with certification too. I wouldn't worry so much about it. Worse comes to worse - when you sign for the package, "forge" your own signature.

Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:37 (twenty-three years ago)

jesus, this is like the bar exam. :-)

without knowing the rules regarding proper service of legal papers in scaredy cat's state, can't say definitely. if service by mail is by itself sufficient, and the opposing party can show that it complied with the rule (i.e., by showing that they sent papers by legal service), then just not picking it up won't be enough to avoid "notice" that a suit has been brought against you. alternatively, if SC's state has a "nail and mail service" rule, then they also have to serve SC personally by leaving the legal papers at SC's residence or workplace -- and presumably since they know SC's address for mailing, they know where to serve SC -- as well as mailing the papers. either way, i doubt that by just ignoring the papers altogether than SC can evade being "notified" of any legal action.

so pick it up yer mail -- you've nothing to lose!

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:40 (twenty-three years ago)

and with the IRS, as long as they've sent any notices of tax deficiency to "the last known address," they're covered. and you won't be able to claim that you were improperly served.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Ally, I don't think a forging of signature would hold up in court... the prosecution would say, "You say you never received this? Isn't this your signature?" and I'd say, "Nope" and then he'd go into the postal regulation codes for checking ID and I would like a liar, regardless.

It's just this: my landlord, my temp agencies, and even the unemployment office send/sent stuff plain old MAIL and couldn't care less about "making sure it gets to me" or not.

The only reason people send certified mail is if they have a vested interest or else if you specify it on your order.

I'm serious when I say that no official business or company has ever sent me ANYTHING, regardless of it's importance, via certified mail-- and that includes companies who are sending me payment through the mail and companies who are sending angry requests for payment through the mail.

So, I'm paranoid!

Tad, I had a friend who SEEEERIOUSLY committed tax fraud for several years. This person has since relocated to Canada. By not answering her phone or opening her door to strangers or picking up mystery packages at the post, she successfully avoided the IRS, even when it sent her "plain old mail" threats and notifications. I used to warn this person that one day they are simply going to break down the door and take said person away, but this never happened. This person showed me specific laws that served as his protection. I must say, following these laws, this person avoided hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxes!

But, like I said, I am not commiting tax fraud in the least! However, being wise to these same laws I was informed of, I know that simply by accepting papers, you're compromising your rights, whether it's widely acknowledged or not. A common thing with the IRS is that they try to scare people and drag them into kangaroo courts where their rights are totally voided. The only defense a person has against this is in the very initial stages of the case.

If you are served with anything by the IRS, you can refuse it and then take specified steps to protect yourself, but ultimately, it's a tricky thing and probably not worth the effort (unless you plan to move to Canada).

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:54 (twenty-three years ago)

BTW, I was trying to keep this person's identity super-secret by not disclosing his/her identity. Therefore the sex of the person changed from a "her" to a "him". I didn't even realize that I'd written "her" all those times. Anyway, she's in Canada now, so what can happen to her, right? Fuck it. Hiya, Heather!

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 04:58 (twenty-three years ago)

SC: it isn't a "kangaroo court" (at least if you don't have either a lawyer or an accountant with you). you'll either be audited; or, if you protest upfront you go to the IRS' Appeals Office. either way, no court will deem that you have been denied "due process." and there's a whole body of law (administrative law) that governs what the IRS can and can't do during audits and appeals (which is why you should get a lawyer or accountant).

and another thing -- if this mail is from the IRS, it's a "notice of deficiency" (or "90-day letter") and you don't pick it up within 90 days of its being mailed by the IRS (hence the name "90-day letter"), then you will have to pay the amount that the IRS says you owe, file for a claim for refund, wait till the IRS Appeals rules on the claim, and if you disagree you would appeal to either the U.S. District Court or U.S. Claims Court. whereas if you just get the letter and you dispute the amount the IRS claims you owe, you can file a petition with the U.S. Tax Court within 90 days and not have to pay anything till the Tax Court rules on your matter.

and yer friend in Canada is very lucky.

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 20 March 2003 05:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I guess I'm fucked anyway, if it's the IRS, since I don't actually plan to contest any charges.

I just found this:

If the notice you received was sent by certified mail, be assured that IRS intends to pursue enforced collection action against you as specified in it. IRS will not send you any additional notices during the ensuing 30-day warning period as set out above.

Yeah, I've never been contacted by the IRS before and I haven't done anything wrong, so I can't imagine any tax situation could get to this level of seriousness, so hopefully it isn't some other weird lawsuit. Maybe it's just some official document from some company that wants to make sure I get some thing of some sort.

I still can't help feeling I'm going to jail, man. Certified letters are weird.

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 05:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks for the sound advice, Tad. Also, my friend in Canada is not also "very lucky", she is very STUPID, because I have recently learned that she has crossed the border AS FAR AS NYC (!) in order to take on temporary assignments from her former employers! Now, THAT'S risky. If I ever made it out of the country as a successful tax evader (to the extreme!) I would certainly not set foot in this country again!

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 05:15 (twenty-three years ago)

S.C., your friend in Canada must have made a lot of money and have rather deliberately lied about it to justify moving to Canada to avoid tax penalties. Is your friend George Michael? Boris Becker? If you have simply not paid taxes you owed, the IRS is usually pretty lenient about working out a repayment plan. If you've lied on tax returns that's of course different, but even then, depending on the amount and your willingness to work something out, they probably wouldn't want to send you to jail. How will you make money then? Pick up your mail, it's not from the IRS anyway, although you sound a little too worried. It's probably one of those "you've won a fabulous vacation to Florida, but you've got to view our condos first" ads. The IRS doesn't start out sending certified letters, it starts off with machine printed letters about 18 months after the tax event in question. The audit cycle is about 2 years behind the payment due date.

So approximately how big a tax bill have you been evading?

Skottie, Thursday, 20 March 2003 07:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I haven't been evading taxes, but it just seems to me it would be something bad. If companies send "you've one of fabulous vacation" via certified mail, it would be the first time it's ever happened to me.

The friend I was speaking of was not George Michael, she was simply a 30-something year old woman who had never once paid taxes in her life (not ever!). This sounds pretty ballsy (and it is), but it started out with her move to NY at a very young age. She was just too broke to pay taxes and by the time she started thinking she probably should, years had already passed. She married a guy she met through the internet and therefore had a convenient reason to move to Canada. She was looking to move after 9/11 anyway.

She never seemed very worried about her tax situation. She had a robotic voice on her answering machine and never buzzed anyone in her building. That was enough to evade the IRS for over 10 years.

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 12:07 (twenty-three years ago)

wow: "one" = "won" in above.

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 12:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Ally, I don't think a forging of signature would hold up in court... the prosecution would say, "You say you never received this? Isn't this your signature?" and I'd say, "Nope" and then he'd go into the postal regulation codes for checking ID and

I know that they're meant to but I've NEVER had someone check for ID when picking up a package.

Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 20 March 2003 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Ha, ha! I am stupid. It was actually a response to some resume I sent out ages ago asking to set up an appointment. They must be fairly serious if they're certifying their mail. So, I guess this is good news.

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 16:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Good news indeed! Celebrate by not paying taxes this year!

But seriously...good luck with the interview.

Skottie, Thursday, 20 March 2003 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Dude, I don't think any of you should pay taxes cos I paid out the ass, I'm making up for all of you and you can quote me.

Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 20 March 2003 16:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks, Skottie. I think I will start the interview with an amusing anecdote about how I thought the certified letter meant I was going to be audited, thrown in prison, tried for war crimes and sent to the electric chair. That should guarantee me the job.

Scaredy Cat, Thursday, 20 March 2003 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)


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