different cities and their different cultures of protest (and response)?

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ok people who have marched in difft cities at difft times, is there a lore and a feel to how a march/manif unfolds (and is policed) in Chicago, compared to San Francisco, say?

mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 March 2003 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

(ie fashions change, and so do times: but what DOESN'T?)

mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 March 2003 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I've been in many of the huge DC marches, plus many in Chicago. In DC, they appear to be used to it - there was a very free and un-crammed feeling to those protests. Lately, in Chicago, they've taken to lining the streets with Ninja Turtles and once you're marching, you can't leave, nor can people on the sidewalks join. I don't know how it is elsewhere.

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 24 March 2003 19:04 (twenty-three years ago)

my fave chant was from 1994 when i marched w/ravers and burnouts and the SNP and "solid middle-class families" against the Criminal Justice Bill - "polis polis get to fuck, polis—get to fuck!"

sadly it has proved unpopular in New York

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 March 2003 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

(yes i did try it out in February!)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 March 2003 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

There was also some bottle-throwing in the 94 CJB protest, with surprisingly little fear of repercussion. And lots of techno, obviously.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 March 2003 19:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Chicago is of course notoriously and forever the home of the police riot during the Democratic Convention in 1968, so I guess I was partly asking in reference to that: is there a kind of institutional memory of that kind of response (for marchers as well as police) and does this colour or affect protests today?

Tracer, was that Glasgow in 1994?

mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 March 2003 19:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark - oh yes, definitely. There was one demonstration last year - an anti-globalization sort of thing - where the police hyped the thing to death and were overprepared. I think they ended up outnumbering the protesters and they actually pissed a lot of people off by blocking off streets and even not allowing people into certain areas unless they lived there. They assumed that there would be riots and that the city would be trashed. Nothing of the sort happened and the police ended up looking silly. The advantage for us is that they're dogged by this terrible reputation. We had a second protest last Friday - the day after the mass arrests, and there was much less trouble from the police, although we did feel penned in.

There are very few places to protest in Chicago. Grant Park, the site of the '68 protests, is now totally off limits.

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 24 March 2003 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)

sat in sf i passed a few turtles in front of a "subway" shop and a retail center, but i split off after about 45 mins from the march and got on the real subway, no problem. mark s, are you in sf? i protested against vietnam as a teenager in sf, and the moods were much more jovial. there are some older protesters like myself, but the change here is it's all much more serious. we know he's not our president. there was no assination of a charasmatic leader preceding this war, therefore there is not the clarity of the slain hero's legacy leading us forward. it's more serious now and more confused.

jameslucas, Monday, 24 March 2003 19:29 (twenty-three years ago)

"off limits" ?

yes mark I was in Glasgow. I think relations w/polis in the US are more respectful, partially because of the deep memory of those images from Chicago and elsewhere - protests still have the color of the 60s; they haven't grown modern enough here to scribble over that memory with an opaque enough layer of relevant lived experience (whereas in France for instance I think they have) - nobody wants their skull cracked open - also we are super-sensitive to criticism for acting odd or aggro, "buncha lazy students", so probably over-compensate the other direction i.e. the constant insistence on overwhelming presence of baby-strollers etc, reminiscent of constant "Out" magazine/Will and Grace-style protestations of "we're really oh so normal, honest"—but also because, at least in New York, the FD and PD have been humanized by the WTC attacks and people can see that their jobs are relatively shitty and thankless and that, as has ALWAYS been the case in New York, they have much bigger fish to fry elsewhere instead of wasting time doing the mayor's protest-busting dirty work, and we think we know that they know that

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 March 2003 19:34 (twenty-three years ago)

also in Glasgow the CJB was specifically an enforcement measure giving the cops vast new powers; these new powers were passed by an English parliament but set to be "focus-grouped" in Scotland first; the police really were the enemy in a way, running only a very close second to England

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 March 2003 20:34 (twenty-three years ago)

London is very well laid out for marchesand rallies, it seems, and in the main there is an appropriate degree of respect between demonstrators and the police hard learnt from the poll tax riots, the south african demos and some anti-globalisation ones. The only heavy police presence on saturday was the ring of police in flourescent jackets around the US Embassy. Big demos end in hyde park, smaller ones at trafagar square. Most marches take in parliament square and whitehall.

Ed (dali), Monday, 24 March 2003 20:46 (twenty-three years ago)

jameslucas, no, not sf, i'm in london

mark s (mark s), Monday, 24 March 2003 22:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Re: institutional memory: during the WTO protests it was very obvious that the Seattle PD had not only NEVER experienced anything of the sort, but seemingly hadn't trained or prepared in ANY way for the number of people they were going to have to deal with, even though the protests had been planned at least a year in advance. (Teargassing people at 8am for sitting on the sidewalk [which is illegal in Seattle!] = a FULL DAY of rioting and dumpster burning, rather than just a few stragglers at the end, as most current anti-war protests have seen so far.)

chester (synkro), Monday, 24 March 2003 23:07 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Local/021803_war_protesters_blast_tear.htm

Speaking of unprepared. I guess those canisters of tear gas were going to expire or something.

David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 01:28 (twenty-three years ago)

on saturday there were armed soldiers on the rooftops watching our demo. Deadly buzz.

Dublin doesn't really have much of a tradition of street violence, notwithstanding the aberration of the May Day events last year (a cop riot if ever there was one). demos here have been good natured; before the war they were almost carnival-esque.

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 15:59 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...
i just thought i'd mention that half a million people marched in downtown dallas yesterday against the senate anti-immigration proposal. DALLAS.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:10 (twenty years ago)

Dallas' hispanic population > 35%

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:14 (twenty years ago)

lotsa money there too

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:15 (twenty years ago)

dallas is in TX tracer. why does this surprise you?

Miss Misery xox (MissMiseryTX), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:15 (twenty years ago)

gabbneb is totally underwhelmed by half a million people marching in dallas i guess - good for you gabby. i am derrrrrrrr quite aware that there are a lot of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. gen immigrant families in texas (i've been to ft. worth twice in the last three months, and my dad spent the first 20 years of his life there) - it's on the front lines in ways that maybe no other state is, but even though texas is notorious for its "politics" i.e. "bidness" - i never thought of it, and dallas especially, as a place where half a million marchers would take over the streets. i am really really happy about that. it's intense. 500,000 people!! that's what, 10 yankee stadiums??

even knoxville got 2,000 people. the marchers showed up and frist sent down these two old uptight west knoxville biddies who reused to come over to where the marchers were and told the organizers that they should have called to make an appointment. (they had been calling fruitlessly for weeks)

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 April 2006 22:19 (twenty years ago)


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