Question to American librarians and Americans who use libraries.

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I figure theres a few of you here so how do you deal with the Patriot Act? I understand that this says that librarians have to provide information about what books people have borrowed and which websites they have surfed to the FBI when requested, but they aren't allowed to tell you whether they have or haven't. Do any libraries in the US have signs like these up?

― hamish (hamish), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 04:52 (twenty-three years ago)

This is a very good question indeed, Hamish -- I did draft and post a fuller answer here, but it occurred to me on reflection that there is a sticky point in UCI library policy which I think I'd need to discuss more thoroughly with my library supervisors before reposting. Suffice to say that there HAS been much discussion of what the Patriot Act implies, though no such signs have been posted or proposed yet.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 05:02 (twenty-three years ago)

In Portland, they have not and will not post signs; however, they do not, have not, and will not keep records of what their patrons check out except for what you currently have checked out, and what you owe late fees on. Not exactly comforting. Recent protestors have deliberately checked out items together to test the act (e.g. City Water Supply and The Safe Handling of Poisons), and the American Library Association itself is lobbying to get this portion of the PATRIOT act excised.

― Ryan McKay (Ryan McKay), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 05:18 (twenty-three years ago)

i just got a library card today. i was going to check out "120 days of sodom" and now i'm glad i didn't.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 05:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I seem to remember seeing a recent poll/survey in which a really shockingly high number of librarians said they would not comply with Patriot Act requests. Obviously it's a lot easier to say this on paper than to openly defy a federal request, but it was nice to see at least the theoretical opposition in action.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 05:20 (twenty-three years ago)

The American Library Association has an Office for Intellectual Freedom that been a sort of clearinghouse for Patriot Act/library related info.

― Chris Barrus (xibalba), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 05:47 (twenty-three years ago)

That site is a bit chaotic but I'm impressed by the ALA's stand against various Administration measures.

Does anyone know if the portion of the Patriot Act that concerns patron records applies equally to public (municipal) and private libraries? And what of public university libraries?

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 05:57 (twenty-three years ago)

And what of public university libraries?

Definitely to them -- that's my library, University of California, Irvine, for one.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 05:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I fear for all the children checking out David Macaulay books.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 06:02 (twenty-three years ago)

This hasn't been an issue for me because I'm in corporate library, but here is a link that provides a lot of info on the patriot act and libraries:

http://www.ala.org/alaorg/oif/statepatriotresolutions.html

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 11:48 (twenty-three years ago)

This is the point at which I'm thankful to work in an English library.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 11:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not going to say too much about this, but I will point out that the circulation system we use (likes most, or all?, automated circulation systems) does not keep records of what library patrons have borrowed in the past, so that information would not even be available. (Whether the FBI could make arrangements to somehow get this information directly from the large companies that operate the circulation systems used by libraries is another question. Is it really gone so that it could never be recovered, or is the information kicking around somewhere?)

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 25 March 2003 14:24 (twenty-three years ago)

(Whether the FBI could make arrangements to somehow get this information directly from the large companies that operate the circulation systems used by libraries is another question. Is it really gone so that it could never be recovered, or is the information kicking around somewhere?)

That's an interesting question.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Indeed it is.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 March 2003 15:34 (twenty-three years ago)

get this information directly from the large companies that operate the circulation systems

Library circulation systems are not all run by large companies (at least here they aren't); and now with open source systems you can set them up without dealing with any companies at all.

― hamish (hamish), Wednesday, 26 March 2003 03:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm pretty low on the totem pole here, but I'm pretty sure we get rid of such info.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 26 March 2003 03:19 (twenty-three years ago)

though, yeah, that large company deal may be the case.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 26 March 2003 03:19 (twenty-three years ago)

two years pass...

Those signs (from the original post to this thread) are neat. It's amazing that there are open source library systems.

I wish I was going to this: http://www.ala.org/ala/pressreleases2005/may2005/obamakeynote.htm

― youn, Sunday, 22 May 2005 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

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