ILE -- has it Dumbed Down?

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I was looking back and found this:

Jacques Derrida

And it's like PHEW BLIMEY COR they's some smart chappies.

Or is that sort of thing always a rarity?

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

And there are pirate jokes!

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

there'll be tears before bedtime

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

we're waiting for our second wind

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

*bronx cheer*

― oops (Oops), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Not so much dumbed down as SEXED UP, RRRRROOOOWWWWRRRRR!!!

(Come on, I start threads about history and historical politics, and, erm, how much I fancy Cambridge Historians, what more do you want?)

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Much as I enjoy a good natter on the subject, haven't we covered this one to death? Jess not to thread.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair point, and that's what I like too. Maybe I'll take a sabbatical and read up on rockin' JD, sexy MF, loungin RB, 'crazy' JL, and fashionable D&G, et al, then I can bring it with the big boys.

xpost

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex T is a very Special mang.

Barry Lasagne has a good point.

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

However I am reading GOETHE at the moment. Only because it sounds a bit like "goth". So far it is better than "Derrida for Beginnxx0rs"!

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's AMAZING RANDY when we need him?

― Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:09 (twenty-two years ago)

No.

― Pauline (starry), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Student: Mr Derrida, do you think that at the centre of any problematic there is a paradox?

Derrida: Well, yes and no.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, and no. Although if all of ILE were intellectual threads discussing Derrida, I doubt I'd ever contribute.

― Mandee, Friday, 7 November 2003 11:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the rise of Google has contributed to this dumbing down of ILX, but in the nightmares I was having a few minutes ago imprisoned women were oozing melted butter so I should go away now.

― Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

No, its dumbed up.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

oozing melted butter

orifice butter?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i have dumbed down for sure!

― geeta (geeta), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"there'll be tears before bedtime"

isn't it like 4 AM in seattle or wherever you are?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I fucking hate these threads with a burning passion. Just felt like sharing.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

You aren't the same Dan Perry who put up a thread the other day asking 'where did it all go wrong for ILX, I'd rather put a shoe in my face' are you?

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan when is your Christmas single coming out???

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Christ, I'd better get on that!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Poop, uh huh huh...huh uh huh.....

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

(That thread was asking "What has ILE been like for you the past couple of days?", not "What's wrong with ILE?". I don't know why I was expecting people to get that when pretty much the entirety of ILE history shows that people would read it exactly the same way you did, Enrique.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait. If any of you out there thinks this place has suddenly become a bastion of pure idiocy, once again you are SO spoiled. I've just come back from viewing the forum I used to be a regular participant of and nine out of ten of the threads therein were filled with even more banality than what can be evident on this forum. Maybe this is because the latter forum is just a forum filled with Average Janes (and the occasional Average Joe), and maybe more is expected of this forum because this is supposed to be a forum filled with people who are NOT "little people" and certainly not Average Janes or Joes, but recognize that this place is actually one of the more intelligent, insightful, and intimidating places on the Internet.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't take Enrique's question as a rehash of the hoary old 'nu ILX sux' chestnut, but as a more specific one.

I still think Frank Kogan was right that ILX, while good at producing certain kinds of knowledges, is not the ideal forum for that kind of intellectual endeavour. I'm not sure why this is, but I think it's too easy to bluster (I'm guilty of this myself) or be more argumentative than strictly necessary (Guilty of this also, but compare the guy when I gave a talk to a student philosophy society 'But you're wrong: all of JD's arguments are either trivial or fallacious!')). I find it hard -- as a much of a 'professional' at this as you can be, although I still feel like an amateur -- to achieve a professional level of detachment talking about stuff which is also quite close to my heart / sense of self-worth. I'm happy to explain why (for example) I don't find the terms post-structuralism or post-modernism useful, but I don't really have the time or energy to persuade anyone who doesn't want to be persuaded that they should think my way -- or Derrida's way -- about things. (See -- I should be doing something else RIGHT NOW!)

― alext (alext), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

DAN -- no I didn't think that but then this thread was in spirit of jest so i though ow fuck him when you said fuck this then and deliberately misunderinterpreted yourn. Nerrr!

― eNRIQUE (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen, my friend, complaining that ILE can be dumb sometimes is denying that every one of us can be dumb sometimes. We all do dumb things and make dumb jokes in real life. Should we pretend to be something else when we're on the internet? Should we censor ourselves so that we only come across as witty, intelligent people, denying our natural urge to make penis and fart jokes? No, because that is a denial of part of us. Down here, it's our time. Up there, it's their time. Next time you take a test...it could be in a new school. The next time you look at the sky...it could be over a new town. Don't say die, Goonies never say die!

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

With regard to the original question... I also wonder what would happen if we revived the exact day on which the Derrida discussion took place, and saw what other wonderfully intellectually stimulating debate was going on.

Threads taken out of context always lend a misty eyed status to old ILE.

Like I said, there are many enjoyable and stimulating debates STILL HAPPENING, dumbed down or not, that get missed because people are too busy watching the carcrash of the megathreads.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Do the truffle shuffle NA -- it was kind of a joke anyway, I know full well ILX '01 wasn't all discussions of Bergson (check this -- ed.) et al.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/archive.php?board=1&date=5%2F11%2F2001

I mean, look at it! The contentious "who is your most favourite/least favourite poster" thread dates from that week.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

ILE has definitely dumbed down, there is no two ways about it. Whether it's a good or bad thing is your own matter but ILE has dumbed down, it was a very different place before. It was never about pretending to be something else either or some prescription people had, there were alot of really really intelligent people here, I know I wasn't one but if you look at old threads you'll see it clearly. Those people no longer post, for the most part. There are traces of genius here and still lots of exceptionally clever people but it isn't quite the same.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Quick note in addition to original post: The forum I used to go to wasn't filled with idiots or "slow" people. The "slow" people were there, sure, but they were in the minority. The forum was mostly made up of quite bright and capable individuals. The fact that they just go about living their everyday, average lives is probably what makes that forum not filled to the brim with "intellectual" conversation. Those who've got a lot on their plate offline don't want to go online and talk about Soren Kierkegaard, for example. They want to talk about Schwan's or high school memories (the forum is largely populated with people in their late 20s - early 30s and it's rare to see someone who's even just getting into college) instead.

Addition: Thank you, Kate, for bringing up the points you're bringing up. Suddenly this forum doesn't seem quite as intimidating.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I really can't stand when people refuse to accept the possibility that the board changes over time, and I used to do it myself which makes me a hypocrite.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan otm.

― Nicolars (Nicole), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I made poopy this morning.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan: Maybe it's not so much that less intelligent people are posting here nowadays, but rather that the "regular people" are starting to come in (um, like me for example) and post and we're not as likely to get into highly intellectual conversations, because we don't have the luxury of being able to think as deeply about those things as others might.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

*laughs at Spinktor's post*

That's da spihwit!

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, maybe you got smarter, but still think you are dumb. Hence board appears to have got worse.

No, this place goes in cycles, and you have to hit the right combination of posters for any thread to work. Same as it ever was.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Perhaps Pete.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

What really is the point of all these threads, aside from making all of the current and/or NEW CONTRIBUTORS feel bad or inadequate about themselves? For fuck's sake. I mean, i know this was created in jest but enough already with the mentalist ilx snobbery...and i say this as one who's been here on and off since '01...

I just talked to one of our beloved old time regulars, who told me tonite that she is quitting ILX, precisely because of the reason that a few people continue to bitch about how much worse it's gotten, which makes her feel bad for her newcomer-ilx friends. She's tired of seeing them attacked on a constant basis, and is just weary of it all, so is leaving for a while. That's all these threads are accomplishing, I guess: wearying everyone out

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

'ILX snobbery'...pfbtbt! Never!

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Pete is OTM. That said, I am usually not especially bothered by these things usually and even *I* think ILE has been a bit crap the last week or so. I just don't want to get the stage where genuine discussion (of anything, from Derrida to Hollyoaks to what flavour crisps is best) gets outweighed by list threads or picture threads or endless variations upon the same theme (like the logout one for today), where everyone is just talking over each other with no real interaction between posters.

Ronan - who used to post that isn't doing so any more?

It has nothing to do with new/old contributors - I think the forum is better off for the contributions of Enrique or Stelfox or whoever, even if I don't necessarily agree with what they're saying.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure we attack newcomers much. It's more that we're getting so used to being here that politeness and consideration is replaced by our baser, more selfish opinions towards other old hands. IMHO.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=1637058

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It has nothing to do with new/old contributors

If it doesn't, then why would it matter who stills posts here or not ?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

well I'm thinking of old threads where you had pinefox, robin c, jerry the nipper, nabisco later, and more whom I probably have forgotten. Look at some of the old ILM threads even, you'd be shocked at the difference.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

But those people still post! Pinefox and StevieT are regular contributors, Carmody puts a word in occasionally and did so on the IDS threads just last week etc. But the volume of posts has made their contributions looks smaller as ILE has got bigger.

ILM has dumbed down hugely, but ILE was just as much about irrelevant nonsense back in 2001 as it is now. Look.

Whats Your Favorite Vegetable

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

meta question: is il* getting nastier?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 7 November 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 179 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Ronan, you have just revealed the secret to my happiness!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

and the key to my unhappiness. (I'm happy really)

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

No, see, you couldn't say that about Galliano, for instance. What I get from Galliano is a complete and nasty awful taste in my mouth and it doesn't matter what I'm thinking before I drink it.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh that brilliant analogy clinches it.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, can I ask you a question?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

yes. was that it?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

No. There's a different one.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

John Galliano is totally overrated, see the fashion thread for details.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Go for it.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you think that Nude Spock still wants his dog to lick peanut butter off his balls? That's kind of nasty :/

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Well wang dang doodle.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it is a matter for Nude Spock and his dog.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

if you'd put more into that analogy, Ronan, you could have gotten more out of it. It's your own fault you feel this way.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

right now it's your fault.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I am going to go rethink and tomorrow when I log into Ronan.net I will have a different attitude.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Let me know what are acceptable opinions in future to avoid these situations.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan.net:

http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/images/Ravers.jpg

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh my god.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.xpressdrugtest.com/images/ecstasy.jpg

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Look I like you Tom, normally, I'm sure I've upset you now or you think I'm a dick perhaps, but I don't really want that. I do believe alot of what I said and I think some other people agree with me but didn't pursue it as much as I did maybe. I hope it's no big deal.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow I hope my sysadmin at work never looks at my history, in the past week I have done searches on:

ecstasy
ravers
golf raving
bukake
"amazing ally"
jon spencer

And those are the ones I can share publically! this is the most worrying news ever.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan- if you feel its that terrible then why can't you start a few threads discussing things you want to discuss. It won't solve the 'problem' of boring pic threads but at least you could get more out of it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

You haven't upset me, Ronan. I hope I haven't upset you. I was just egging you on. I understand that in your current situation things can seem exceedingly boring or bleak (or perhaps I don't understand at all, but it's not really important) and I suspect that trying to sort out why ILE does or does not disappoint you lately won't help.

Superboy and the Ravers would be the best pub cover band ever.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

this is the most worrying news ever

Ally, I'm starting to think you could write for Q!

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

my current situation? heh makes it sound like I have a disease or a gorilla living in my house or something.

I am forever doomed to be a rave stereotype particularly after posting that bad Mr C impression on the what do you look like thread.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

ally did you find anything for golf raving?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

No! I also cannot find the picture of Superboy and the Ravers with Gareth's head superimposed onto Superboy and it's the worst day of my life!!!!!!!!!!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

My last searches are:

osaka pink salon
dwarf lifespan
japanese octopus ball
qoo
holzmarktstrasse galerie
supervening
verstehen definition
gout
ruthenian
tailor of dunblane

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Verstehen!! You...beginner

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, so you know all about the methodological hermeneutics of Schleiermacher and Dilthey, eh, Allyzay?

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes. But I don't know the lifespan of a dwarf, I'd be interested in finding that out. What did you discover, Momus-san?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Dumb this down, then, suckers!

I just wanted to know if dwarves can live beyond 36 because I'm writing a story about them, and wanted to make one character 36. Actually Google mostly gave me results about plants, so I assumed there wasn't really a problem with a 36 year-old dwarf, and ploughed on with my story.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I imagine they live to be old, I don't see why they wouldn't. Assuming all they have "wrong" with them is dwarfism and there isn't an underlying medical issue causing the dwarfism, like Kid Rock's poor, poor Joe C.

Also, you might find it fascinating that Schleiermacher's career and training as a Protestant theologian, and classical philologist offered him a first hand experience with hermeneutic praxis!!!!!!!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"This is not thread" was high concept, just so ya know.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Next time I won't Google, I'll 'Allyzay'!

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

13) Suddenly...MOMUS!

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

So what did you find out about 'bukake' (sic) then?

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

okay, better go check on my pizza, you all are just getting two jel posts today, sorry! See ya, have fun!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The search is actually on "bukkake", I apologize for this. I found many photos of Japanese noodle dishes, and they all looked quite appetizing but the concept of it put me off completely. Either that or it made noodles much...sexier, perhaps?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

You obviously have 'family filter' on.

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I am doing these searches at work, so it is highly likely that the "family filter" is automatically turned on. I was v. disappointed with the result of this search to be honest. However, I was not disappointed enough to repeat the search since, on my home computer.

It was "research" for an ILX thread that I decided needed bukkake photography. So I put up noodles instead.

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

There was a thread on bukkake?!

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

She said no such thing, merely that there was a thread that needed bukkake.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

That's kind of all threads though, isn't it?

― Allyzay, Friday, 7 November 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

ILE -- has it cummed up?

― Momus (Momus), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

precisely ally, you have the best judgement ever.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 7 November 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm surprised no one has cited a very good thread on Post-structuralism recently.

Yes, we've lost some very intelligent posters, and I'd be very pleased if Nabisco and Josh started posting ten times a day - but we have gained some very intelligent ones too. I like the mix of styles and approaches here, and have no problem with there being dumb stuff. I'm also a bit mystified by the impulse towards navel-gazing, the inclination to argue about these things rather than to pick out and enjoy the stuff you like best, and to try to instigate more of that kind of thing.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i also like how we can get to the point where the threads cause certain ILXors to threaten taking their own lives.

― Jay Dee Sah Mon (Kingfish), Friday, 7 November 2003 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, I've lurked here since 2001 and it's my opinion that ILE hasn't suffered any degradation of quality at all - bar a lot of the angsty navel-gazing which has been going on lately.

It's ok guys, y'all have a very cool cubbyhouse and it's not going to fall out of the tree any time soon!

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Friday, 7 November 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

ILE -- has it Dumbed Down?

Yes. In the last 36 hours.

― Skottie, Monday, 10 November 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

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