Effective anti-flakiness devices, search and destroy

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Like when someone repeatedly, and perhaps sincerely, mentions particular times when they will call you and then fails to call, but continues to make such promises. Another scenario is the person who continually tells you to call them on a specific day to do something and then is always too busy or too tired to do anything.

Obviously this behavior in itself is dud.

What annoys me most about it is emails/calls of this nature don't allow for any closure. In many if not most cases I've gotten annoyed enough by the person's flakiness that I actively do not want to hear from them or see them again, but of course every time they write I feel a bit guilty for feeling this way--followed by another brush of annoyance when the same story repeats itself. It's this stupid emotional volatility (however minor) that this activity produces that really makes it contemptible, no matter whether it's intentional or not (I really doubt it's intentional, but need things be to be bad or annoying?).

Anyway, is there any wisdom at all in trying to end the cycle by emailing a note to the effect of, "Do you realize that this is the umpteenth time you've mentioned calling and you've called perhaps one of these times? Do you realize yourself how flaky you are being?" (IN my cases the difficulties of such a message would be compounded by language issues--it's a delicate enough message to send to someone whose first language is English...)

What's funniest here is that in the two most recent cases of this sort of thing happening to me, I did sort of do something in response, however muted--in one case I wrote a message saying something like "You shouldn' have to feel like you have any obligation to see me, if you don't want to hang out that's fine" and the person responded (perhaps inevitably) "Oh no I really do want to" blah blah blah. The other time I ended a phone conversation of the "You told me to call? What are you up to tonight?" "Oh I'm tired yawn maybe next..." with a curt "Well then call me if you're up to something..." conclusion and then replied to this person's next (!) email with an even more curt--but not overtly dismissive--response (i.e. "no i can't make it sorry"). But a month or two later the person mails me again with the same sort of thing--"let's do something soon, call me" etc. Ack.

How do you put a stop to this behavior? I'm tempted to just say "STOP BOTHERING ME" but in both cases--especially in one case--there has been no overt meanness whatsoever, and I don't want to react with undo hostility. I'm convinced that on most levels these people are unaware of their problem. So what do I do? Just learn to ignore them? I'm about halfway there already, this thread not withstanding (such threads always lend the impression that I'm obsessing, but I'm not, it simply is a curious social situation to which I haven't developed an appropriate response). Or is there something more proactive that I could do that wouldn't simply be futile or meanspirited?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)

note that none of this concerns romantic stuff

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i had (have?) one friend whose behavior was like the above on quaaludes (sp?), where the pattern was similar but so attenuated as to stretch out for years--the latest gap in communication has been about a year and a half, so perhaps it's run its course...

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean every friendship--or almost every friendship--includes an echo of this kind of behavior. some of it is just the inevitable friction created by two humans trying to get their lives in synch for just an afternoon or whatever. but obviously there is a grey area that can be traversed and then some, whereupon one enters the Land of the Flaky.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

"We should get together for a drink about it"

Eventually I managed to work it out as meaning "I don't want to talk about it now and I probably wont have time later either"...

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha I genuinely thought this was about dandruff shampoo!!! I have LOTS to say about THAT!

― Sarah (starry), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah well this thread can about both if you like

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

but if people are trying to dismiss you why don't they just disappear? (this has happened to me to, and after i get over the initial disappointment i'm actually quite grateful.) why do they pop up again without warning, only to flake out again?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

They probably don't realise they're doing it. That's the whole nature of the flaky person really. I am occasionally flaky myself, I fear. They really DO have good intentions, they really DO want to see you. But when it comes to the nitty gritty arrangements...

With me and with people I know, flakiness like this has sometimes been a symptom of depression, or stress. Socialising feels like something you want to do, but also makes you panic, and seems too difficult in practice. Don't know if this applies in your situation though.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Media wankerdom: there is always one contact at some point in your career that arranges meetings/coffee/lunches only to cancel as you are on your way out the door to meet them. Whatever you do and no matter how sorely tempted you might be, do not ruefully ask if something better came along.

Am, don't take this personally - the person probably flakes on everyone. They might have social fatigue, which I get from time to time and duck out of going to places where I said I'd be. Ask if they're okay, and reschedule something that's ticketed so they have to turn up or face opprobrium if they leave you hanging with an extra bought ticket.

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Basically, if they say "I'll call you back". If they do that three times, and fail to, then they are off the list.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I've had this problem with several friends. You can either take it personally, or you can just shrug your shoulders and let it go. A good guideline is to put about as much effort into the friendship as the other person does. I mean, sure, this should be distributed over time, to account for "social fatigue" and other such things. Don't get angry, either, because getting angry is a form of effort, as well. This is important. Return emails/phone calls as often as the other person does -i.e. flake on returning emails that suggest that you do something as often as they flake on doing things.

In a healthy friendship, the effort is balanced. If one person's effort flags, the other person will notice and make an effort to try and make contact. One-sided friendships are not healthy. I've learned that the hard way, but it's an important lesson to learn.

― the river fleet, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 12:08 (twenty-two years ago)

A good guideline is to put about as much effort into the friendship as the other person does.

this is the kind of thing i want to avoid--being so deliberate etc. that takes up too much energy and time.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Flakey = lazy, no?

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd say it was a mixture of lazy, forgetful, contrary and selfish.

(NB I am starting to be a very big fan of selfish.)

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

If you really want to see them and hang out, I've discovered that it can make a big difference if you say "I really want to see you, it would mean a lot to me if we could get together" or words to the effect - really lay it on the line, and hold them to your plans. suzy's idea about something w/tickets is a good one. If you don't really want to hang then whatever. Ignore, delete, erase.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

This sounds flakey in itself, I know, but oftentimes I'll organise to talk to someone/meet them for coffee/hook up at a party or show etc and then my niggling aghoraphobia kicks in, and to leave the house at all seems like too much of a task, let alone negotiating my way through a series of social interactions to meet someone. Some days I'm FINE somedays I'd just rather not deal with anything, and I can't tell in advance when this will be. So I'm a notoriously bad friend, but my pals now know to organise things on the spur of the moment, ie come over and take me out somewhere rather than organising to meet up a few days in advance.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the reason your flakes are acting up?

― julep, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

agoraphobia seems a stretch

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 January 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I am basically this person, which is why like 90% of my friends haven't seen me in two months or more. The reasons for my behavior:

- exhaustion
- dehabilitating panic attacks over something stupid and gay like what I'm going to wear (this has caused me to be over 3 hours late to work, for example, on several occasions)
- illness
- forgetfulness because of trying to juggle too many things
- combination of any of these items

What Tracer Hand said upthread really works, also if you are very firm with dates and plans and don't make it a "ok I'll call you sometime on Saturday and we'll see" type of get together because, in my case, I'm about 400% guaranteed to flake out on that. Also putting the onus on me to decide on plans is a guaranteed non-winner as well. I'm really, really willing to go along with whatever plans anyone else wants to do; however being asked my opinion on the issue or to actually plan the event, unless it is some "down to the wire" major thing that I can convince myself is "work", nothing will ever get done. Your friend might be like this.

Very, very rarely have I ever flaked out on someone because I don't want to hang out with them.

― Allyzay, Thursday, 15 January 2004 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

All that being said, it's not an excuse at all and I wouldn't blame any one of my friends for no longer wanting to hang out with me over putting up witth this one too many times. It's kind of up to you if you want to make the effort to say "OK We're going HERE at THIS TIME and you HAVE to show up" type of thing. The behavior is kind of inexcusable whatever the reason and when other people do it to me I tend to get pissed off, so...

― Allyzay, Thursday, 15 January 2004 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

ally that sounds lame why dont you change?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

just kidding (just realized that the sarcasm of that comment might not have been evident to all)

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha yeah, 200 posts later of people ignoring the sarcasm blatantly arguing about whether or not "That's how I am" is a good excuse or not...

― Allyzay, Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I could have posted what Ally posted. I have most of the same reasons for flaking out on people...it's gotten so bad I have a hard time even answering emails.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha yeah, I often forget to answer people back with emails. Sometimes I have a decent excuse--I've been trying to remember NOT to download my email at home because I am at home so infrequently these days that if I download my email to my home computer instead of leaving it on the web server, it will NEVER get replied to--but other times I've just plain...forgotten. Other times it's because I can't think of anything interesting to say and I get like, haha wow, if I email them something this mundane they'll never talk to me again. As if all my friends are like Oscar Wilde or something?

― Allyzay, Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Why thank you!

http://www.bluesforpeace.com/images/oscar-wilde.jpg

― C.3.3 (Ned), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

(Seriously, both of youse are cool, so don't fret. :-))

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought 'flakey' meant 'nervous and freaked out', like Flakey Foont, Mr Natural's friend in the R Crumb comics?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I lose contact with people very easily - I've changed cell numbers about every nine months since 1999, and I'm really comfortable being by myself a lot of the time (Unabomber alert). When I see friends and we exchange numbers, if they don't call, odds are I'll never get around to it (for many of the reasons Ally listed above, minus the fashion panic), or lose the number or whatever. It's never because I don't want to see them, or anything like that (doubt it is in your case, either).

I've got some close friends that I spent a lot (all) of my time with when life consisted of work, drinking and waking up at 4 in the afternoon. I lost touch with them when I quit and tried to behave like a normal person. I keep thinking I should contact them, esp. one I thought I was madly in love with for a while and acted like a complete asshole to near the end, but I don't know what to say. "Oh, hey, sorry I was an asshole and disappeared off the face of the Earth. I'm alive!" That might be why your 'lude friend hasn't contacted you, Amateurist - it's kind of awkward knowing you're a flake, and I suspect there's a fear of rejection issue there (don't want to be the needy flake calling up, etc.).

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

God Ally you could be talking about me, so OTM. I do say I'd like to see/catch up with people all the time, and then maybe 7 times out of 10 I'll pike. There is often a good reason - I get last-minute requests ("I'm downstairs, come out NOW" when I'm not even dressed wtf) or, its a weeknight and I'm exhausted, that kind of thing. Other times, I get the social phobia too, cant face the idea of going out and being perky even though these are friends and I knew the event was coming up.

I basically have to be told "we're doing X on Y" ages in advance and steel myself to go to it with mental convincing.

I realise this is Not Normal. But nor is it avoiding people. If I dont wanna see someone/go acertain place, I usually say so.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh and I am totally utterly crap at replying to emails too so please dont anyone get offended etc etc.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:41 (twenty-two years ago)

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/~mirror/FFS/Moisturizer-Sunscreens.jpg

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 16 January 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

The flakey people in my life/family are really beginning to piss me off. Not turning up or helping in family events because they're not "in the mood".

Everyone tiptoes around them: don't ask well-known family flakes to do anything as they're unrealiable. Give it to someone like me who runs a full-time demanding job, combined with other responsibilities.

― Bob Six, Sunday, 22 April 2007 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

There is a saying that's been around for a while, "If you want something done, give it to a busy person." People who say this should be suffocated with a pillow and dumped on a city street as a warning to others.

― Aimless, Sunday, 22 April 2007 19:49 (nineteen years ago)

hey, you know, it could be worse - your whole family could be flakes and unreliable.

OK, I guess my brother is on point, but he's the only one

― daria-g, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

i'm super busy right now but i still make time to hang out with friends... it keeps me sane. although sometimes when i'm really busy, exhaustion creeps in and my free time goes to sleeping or staying in and being a lazy sod.

― get bent, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

I've been bad about this for a long time now, and I'm really trying to make a point of keeping plans that I make, even when I really don't feel like it. Not only is this better for my self-esteem and reputation, but it's already led to two pretty fun nights that I didn't expect to be fun.

I think if you learn to keep your plans, you also learn not to make plans you can't/don't want to keep.

― Hurting 2, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:08 (nineteen years ago)

Me and Blount to the thread!

― emilys., Monday, 23 April 2007 00:28 (nineteen years ago)

Hurting OTM

I am the fucking worst. I almost never regret when I just pull the bandaid off and do what I said I would. But yeah, sometimes it can be really hard when the whole isolation feedback loop is in full effect.

― emilys., Monday, 23 April 2007 00:33 (nineteen years ago)

flakey friends are fine, just flake on them too, and the whole thing disappears

― 600, Monday, 23 April 2007 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

i used to know a girl who was pretty flakey so i thought ah fuck it you know, too much other stuff going on to bother. i thought i wont call for a couple weeks

3 years later i got a card saying hey sorry we lost touch, ive moved to london. id actually completely forgotten about her by that time

id also moved to london by that point, so i thought ok give her a call we'll meet up. she was up for that, but then bailed at the last minute. i never heard from her again. i thought it was pretty funny because it was so obviously going to happen

― 600, Monday, 23 April 2007 00:54 (nineteen years ago)

it is really nice when you befriend someone even flakier than yourself, because for once you don't have to be the guilty one in the relationship

― emilys., Monday, 23 April 2007 00:59 (nineteen years ago)

absolutely i have quite a few perfectly satisfactory friendships with peopel i havent spoken to in years:D

― 600, Monday, 23 April 2007 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

and thing is, there are always newer and better people

― 600, Monday, 23 April 2007 01:01 (nineteen years ago)

ha ha...yeah, I think if you just go ahead and make a decision to be rotten rather than wrestling with it everyone will be happier.

― emilys., Monday, 23 April 2007 01:04 (nineteen years ago)

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