The REAL goths

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Can someone provide me with some historical background, or a link to some about the original goths? I know very little, except I think they were in Germany or something and I heard the phrase Visigoths used, and I've heard certain achitechture described as "gothic." Did they have the same dark fascinations as the dreary Cure listening teenage sort do? If not, where are the modern goths finding their influence, and what connection do they have whatsoever?

I'd really like to know.

― David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 19 January 2004 07:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn't this an MTV show?

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 19 January 2004 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

The Goths were basically one of the Germanic tribes that lived in central Europe back in the first centuries of our time. They didn't live exclusively in the area where Germany is now, but were spread around Europe. They were often divided into two groups, the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths (meaning "Western" and "Eastern Goths"), but I'm not sure whether they themselves used those names. Their kingdoms later dissolved, to become parts of other kingdoms. The term "Gothic" was adapted much later to describe certain Middle Age architectural styles, it doesn't relate to the actual goths (though I don't why such name was chosen). In the 18th/19th century "Gothic" was also used in reference to certain type of Romantic art, which centered around moon-lit nights, dark castles and all sorts of weird mysteries. For example, the book "Dracula" could be described as Gothic. This is where the current Goths take their name from.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 19 January 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

So, no then?

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 19 January 2004 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

The term "Gothic" was adapted much later to describe certain Middle Age architectural styles, it doesn't relate to the actual goths (though I don't why such name was chosen).

I think it was because during the Renaissance some people tried to characterise Medieval architecture as being the product of post-Roman barbarianism.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 19 January 2004 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Does your cable companies lineup incude the History Channel? If so, you are in luck. Theres going to be a four part series called "The Barbarians" that starts tonight. One part is about the Goths.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 19 January 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Go here for details:
http://www.historychannel.com/barbarians/
(You need Macromedia Flash to view the web presentation.)

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 19 January 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it was because during the Renaissance some people tried to characterise Medieval architecture as being the product of post-Roman barbarianism.

OTM. It was a Mannerist called Giorgio Vasari who coined the term.

Gothic architects were obsessed with getting as much light into their buildings as possible. Light = God. Buttressing the structure meant that the walls could be have windows and a clerestory added below the ceiling. The internal columns didn't need to be as thick either so they managed to achieve an effect that the structure was hanging from the sky and just glancing the ground. The term Gothic as applied to dreary Cure listening teenagers has nothing to do with Gothic architecture but to do with Gothic Literature. Horace Walpole's "The Castle of Otranto" (1765) is the first Gothic novel. I think the term Gothic came about because the novel's setting but then came to be applied to any novel that had a dark, supernatural theme.

I was a dreary Cure listening teenager. Once, in Reigate, some similarly dressed friends and I got set upon by some 'casuals'. One of them said to my friend J: "You're a Gothic aren't you?". J replied "No, I prefer to see myself as neo-Georgian". It didn't help the situation.

― Alfie (Alfie), Monday, 19 January 2004 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Dammit, I was just reading about the Goths somewhere, but I cannot remember exactly where. Considering how many books I've flipped through in airport shops and in-flight magazines I've read in the past week, I can't for the life of me remember where.

But yeah, what Tuomas said. Germanic tribes. Sacked Rome and all that.

I wish we had TV up here in Vermont. I'd *love* to watch that special on the History Channel. Maybe I should ask a friend to tape it.

― the river fleet, Monday, 19 January 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Asterix & Obelix about to fight some real goths....

http://www.gthomas.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pics/goths.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 January 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Gothic architects placed windows high on the walls b/c this would allow light to enter places of worship without people being distracted by things going on outside. Thus there is a parallel between the huge, dramatic shadows produced in gothic buildings and the contrasts between light/dark in gothic art/literature.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 19 January 2004 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

To carry on from Alfie, the full title of the Horace Walpole book was "The Castle of Otranto, a Gothic Story" (where "gothic" meant medieval). It was a pretty dark and morbid book, so the word "gothic" took on the new definition when people were reminded of his book when they heard the word. The goth music/style around at the moment comes from that definition.

― oscillatingocelot (oscillating ocelot), Monday, 19 January 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

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