European Elections

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Will you be voting? Do you know what your MEP gets up to in Brussels and Strasbourg? etc etc

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll vote, but nope not really sure what my MEP does.

Also, mayoral elections too.

jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

lib dem in europe for closer more democratic european integration.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

1. yes (but haven't decided for whom yet)
2. yes (I have in fact been to the EP in Brussels many times and once to Strasbourg)

I actually think the EP is an unnecessary tier of European government/decision making. Although I take the point that a democratically elected chamber acting as a check on what the Member State governments and the Commission are doing (and how much it is spending in order to do it) is healthy, in practice it isn't really performing that function. And they are chronically incapable of reforming their scandalous system of perks and expenses.

Jeff W (zebedee), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Unlike last time, I'll vote, probably for some left-wing anti-EU/anti-centralization candidate. It's a hard pick between the Green and the Leftist Party. Some of the Greens aren't quite left-wing, but then again, some of the Leftists aren't that green. I could vote for the Communists, but the Finnish Communist Party isn't particularly credible politically (they haven't had a MP since the eighties). The Finnish Social Democrats have sold their soul to capitalism.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

No-one to vote for in my constituency. Can't vote Labour and won't vote for any of the other parties.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Not too impressed with the choice of candidates in the area but I'll be voting No on this gov's referrendum to kick out the darkies.

fcussen (Burger), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I've already voted - popped it in the post last week some time.

caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

dadaismus - why don't you just vote to reduce margin then?

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i admit i know nothing about the European side of things, mmmmm guilt. i want to vote anyway but have to go halfway across London in order to do so on account of being stupidly absent-minded and not sorting out a postal vote in time.

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Strange phenomenon occurring in Irish elections. The candidates faces on the posters are turning a sickly green colour.

Joe Kay (feethurt), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's like in THEY LIVE - the overlords' control rays are beginning to break down.

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I intend to vote, partly because I get a somewhat wide-eyed kick out of exercising my democratic right. If I were to list the reasons I pay my council tax, 'being able to vote' would up there, a close second to 'I'd get in trouble otherwise'. As for my MEP, I helped to get Jean Lambert of the Green Party into a seat last time, so I guess I ought to feel pleased with myself. She seems like a cool person who doesn't take the piss with public money.

I don't have a problem with the European Parliament per se. I feel that a lot of the EP's intentions are good, but it does have a serious image problem. I don't know anyone who actually uses this website: http://www.europarl.eu.int/home/default_en.htm whereas it is supposedly there for any member of the public to consult.

Daniel (dancity), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeff W, why is the EP 'an unnecessary tier'? Is everything rubberstamped before it gets there? I get the impression that there's even less genuine debate there than in the Commons.

Daniel (dancity), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

London Mayor: 1st choice Green, 2nd Choice Ken

He's done a good job but as a labour party member doen't deserve my first preference vote.

London Assembly: undecided but probbaly green. No idea why I votegreen their environmental policy is good but their economc policy is unrealistic and their global policy is naive.

Europe: Lib Dem, won't vote green as they are anti integration, won't vote labour because of being a neo-thatcherite party. I agree with close European integration albeit much more democratically than has beeen the case up to now.

Local: undecided but I'm not sure it makes much difference really.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 06:10 (twenty-two years ago)

This really irritates me TBH - yes he's a Labour Party candidate, but does anyone seriously think this will be a victory for Blair if he wins? The price of 'I can't vote for Ken 1st choice' could be Steven Norris, which seems utterly perverse.

Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 07:53 (twenty-two years ago)

That kind of knee jerk "I won't vote for Ken coz he's Labour now!" crap, when Ken has been doing everything he can to counteract the Labour shennanigans, in fact you could say HE FOUGHT NEW LABOUR AND HE WON ... urrrgggghhh!!! It just burns me up. This is idealism at its most pointless and least pragmatic.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll vote, most probably. for an ex foreign minister of ours, a social democrat.

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 08:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Putting Ken second choice doesn't give it to Norris, there's no way norris could win on first preference. I'm still voting for Ken, nonetheless I'll be damned if I'll vote Labour in any election whilst they remain a non-socialist democratic. If anything I am not voting for Ken first choice because of the cavalier way in which he was treated last time around and the way in which he was re-instated.

I realise I am not voting for 'coialist choices' in any of the other elections but I am trying to get certain objectives met. I'm wavering away from the greens in the LA and moving towards the LDs. I want the next London assembly and mayor to ramp up the conjestion charge and heavily tax company car parking.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, this thread died rather quickly...

i haven't had my flipping polling card yet (i know i can just take some id, but that's NOT THE POINT). we have had next to no leaflets through the door either, compare it to islington borough bye-elections when we got about 5 bits a day, i suppose all the apparachiks are doing big important things what with there being all these elsections at once.

also also will we be getting results on thursday night? i seem to recall it taking ages for the last euro ones, the drawback of PR of course...

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Euro will be sunday as most of europe votes on sunday. ALl the rest will be thursday night on.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 10:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I've had about a million leaflets through the door, and a fair few letters also from various parties. Maybe it's because Highgate is prime 'they will probably vote so we'd better get at them' territory. I got a very useful leaflet from the library with all the mayoral candidates' manifestoes in it. Hilarity over the BNP one. The Lib Dem geezer looks rubbish and says sod all in his spiel, and the Green blokey is like a lardy Kitten off Big Brother. Terrible teeth and bobbins economics. I'm sticking with Ken.

Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

why is the EP 'an unnecessary tier'? Is everything rubberstamped before it gets there?

Here's an oversimplified explanation: there are two ways the EP is involved in legislation.

On some issues they have the right to be consulted only (so the EP can express an opinion, suggest changes to legislation etc. but the Council of Ministers can and usually does ignore them). To be fair the number of policy issues where the consultation procedure applies has been reduced significantly over the years and the changes to the Treaties proposed in the new EU constitution will probably reduce that by a bit more.

For other legislation, the EP is more of an equal partner in the process (but they still come to it after the Commission and the Council have decided what they want). The EP can pass amendments to the legislation and it then goes back to the Council. If the Council can't agree the changes there is a long-winded 'conciliation' process.

The EP can add value in that is the forum most likely to take on board the views of business and individuals. So in small ways it can improve laws to e.g. remove unnecessary burdens on business. But it is also just as much a hostage to individual government intervention from the big Member States. A good example being the failed attempt to bring in a new Takeovers Directive, which Germany got their MEPs to vote down (having failed to block it in the Council).

I am, I'll admit, a bit biased, having worked both for the Commission and a Member State government on EU legislation. But I do think the current set up isn't working well, and don't see the new constitution improving the situation for the better. What I would prefer to see is national Parliaments much more involved at an early stage in proposals for EU legislation, with national electorates given the chance to express their views via that route.

Jeff W (zebedee), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm all for abolishing the council and commision and making the EP a proper policy making 2 chamber parliament, with an elected leader and a cabinet. (I realise I am in the minority here)

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 10:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm certainly in favour of a more accountable europe, isn't one of the bodies the only decision-making body that meets in secret apart from the north koreans?

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Most cabinets meet in secret and most ministers don't have tv cameras in their offices, that stat sounds like UKIP bullshit scaremongering. A certain ammount of all government is don't in secret. However, the Comission is probably the most powerful quango in the world. The fact that none of the commisioners are elected is quite frightening.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Carsmile is referring to the Council meetings, which are mostly not open to the public at present.

The original point of setting up the Constituional Convention that produced the proposed new EU Constitution was to make the EU more accountable and accessible, but under Giscard's direction it soon ended up as the usual power struggle between the three institutions and wranglings over voting weights and vetos.

Jeff W (zebedee), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, i think it came from a fairly reasonable source, but as you can tell, i'm a little fuzzy on the details, and i take your point about cabinets etc. isn't the WTO the most powerful quango? it's certainly not the UN anyway ;)

x-post, thanks jeff, that's the bunny.

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

essentially what I am saying is that the rationale for keeping council and comission meetings private is the same that keeps cabinet meetings private.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

On some issues MEPs are asked to carry out research on what the Commission has discussed and present them to Parliament in the form of reports. Parliament then votes on those reports. This process is entirely open, as far as I'm aware. It seems both transparent AND very cumbersome.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

the naughty Dutch release their results early:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3792877.stm

zebedee (zebedee), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Robert Kilroy-Silk vows to destroy the EU from within, for goodness' sake!

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

how long before the Rk-S pork-barrel scandal.

Ed (dali), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

What is UKIP actually going to DO in the European Parliament? Just vote against everything proposed ever on principle?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

hopefuly they will abuse their expense accounts as an example to others.

Ed (dali), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Boohoo, the Finnish Greens lost one MEP and Centre Party won one; The Centre and The Rightist Party now have four seats both, while the Social Democrats, The Leftists and the Greens have 5 in total (The Swedish Party has the remaining one seat). Well, at least the Leftists, whom I voted for, kept their one seat. The Leftist MEP is also highly critical of EU's centralizing and militarizing tendencies, which I think is a good thing. The EU of today serves the interests of capital, not those of the people or democracy, plus it's fortressing itself against the rest of the world (against immigrants, for example). The only good thing about the EU is it's environmental policy; that's the one thing where strict co-ordination between nations is better than an open-ended integration (which would be a more favourable alternative to the EU type of centralization).

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 14 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I would never vote Green in UK elections, but it's a genuinely worthwhile vote in European elections.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

centralising, bad, but closer unity good, militarising, bad, democratising, not happening nearly fast enough

Ed (dali), Monday, 14 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

in the South East of England, Labour only got 13.7 per cent of the vote !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/euro_uk/html/35.stm

DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

(Also the Greens are the only UK party voting against the incredibly bad proposed EU software patent laws (the Lib Dems send out press realeases saying that they do but, well, don't, inexplicably). I realise that in this political climate that's fiddling while etc, but it's nice)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

The thing about the UKIP, with all their gloating and promises now to 'wreck it', is that they don't even *want the European project/parliament/Union to work. They are going in, looking to prove their prejudices, rather than to be genuine representatives of the British (well, English) people.

And Kilroy-Silk = 'man of the people': absolutely absurd. It's strange how he somehow seems to have won a lot of popularity, considering that he was never that popular a TV presenter... shows how unsophisticated and 'star-dazzled' the electorate must be. Summed up, really, by UKIP achieving their strongest result, by a good 3% plus, in the East Midlands, rather than as one would expect, the South-East or South-West.

I tell you what, though; the results make me a bit more heartened about the north; the UKIP significantly lower there, and the Tories (who won in the NW and Yorks in 1999) losing out big time, to the LibDems and Labour just about doing okay, considering. Though I am of course forgetting the BNP... who did far too well, even if they didn't win a seat; between 5-8% across t' north, which, as a popular vote shocks me. One could well imagine that sort of vote or more in the odd place - Burnley, Oldham, Bradford etc. - but considering the high 40%+ turnouts in the north, I hadn't expected this across the entire region.

Tom May (Tom May), Monday, 14 June 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)


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