UK 'Super Thursday'

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Wooo, what a lot of scary parties there are! A whole party for Pro-Life? Who are the 'English Democrats'? If we aren't voting for people but parties (in Europe), why is the Labour MP George Galloway's name actually on ballot papers next to the Respect coalition? Crazy scenes...

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The first time I've ever been confronted with the ¦3NP on the ballot paper, and although I knew it would be there, it came as quite a shock. Nasty.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

And right at the top, too... I didn't know it would be there, which is, erm, insular of me.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Galloway got kicked out the party didn't he?

i'm surprised they've been allowed to call it "respect" as i thought the organisers of london's premier anti-racism summer day out (heavily supported by ken) might have complained that it could be misleading...

i'm voting tonight.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

My first reaction was to *do* something like scratch out their logo or somesuch but since anything like that would have spoilt the ballot paper, I dutifully put a little kiss in the box of the best lot to keep them out, like a good subject.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The worst think about the ¦3NP on the ballot was the fact that due to strict alphabetization it came first. Boo. One of the voting ladies got in a tizzy about me taking my polling card away after I voted, I pointed out I didn't need it to vote so could have left it at home.

Ah I always feel good about voting.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:48 (twenty-two years ago)

The nice voting ladies at my Polling Station handed me my Polling Card back, so I took it away even though I didn't really want it.

I find voting oddly unfulfilling, but not as unfulfilling as going on demonstrations. You just like voting when you know that some other sucker has to count the papers, Pete.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Very disheartened by the whole experience. I made my mark, the most yuninspiring bunch i've had to vote for for some time.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

voting's GREAT tim, do you really not get a "wahey, i'm PARTICIPATING in DEMOCRACY" feeling? i know i do :)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm with Carsmile. I haven't voted yet, cos I'm waiting for the postman to turn up with my fuXXoring Glasto tickets.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Demos are awful, it's true, but I do get a mild buzz out of voting -- which is probably pathetic.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I get a "oh, was that my participation in democracy then?" feeling. (Though I do participate in other ways too, obv).

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I got a photocopied leaflet from the UKIP the other day. it even had spelling mistakes. Pls hold me back whilst i rush to vote for them!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

It's definitely cooler to be excited about voting than to be all miserable about it like me. I'm jealous of your buzz and would hate to harsh it.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I will vote this evening, after ordering a recycling crate and going to the library. I may even help an old lady across the road, oh what a model citizen am I. ¦3NP blokey looks comically evil in his manifesto picture.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:02 (twenty-two years ago)

From the Guardian:

As for the BNP, its electioneering scales new heights of sophistication. In one recent press release, the party describes its top campaign team driving through cities basking in thumbs-ups from black residents. Another contains what may well be an exclusive revelation. "The government is already planning to build five giant new cities, each the size of Birmingham, over the next 30 years to house over 5 million new immigrants." Can there be such a thing, in local election strategy, as being too clever by half?

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The woman at my polling staton this morning asked if I wanted her to 'throw your polling card away for you'. I clutched it to me though, since I slightly suspected her of corruption.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i hope i get the democratic buzz tonight after going all the way back to NW6 (that's North West Zone 6, not postal code) to vote and then all the way back to Harringay afterwards...

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:31 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a truly biblical journey, stevem -- make sure you take a pregnant woman with you.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I voted this morning.
That Euro ballot paper was huge! I couldn't believe how big it was.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

...it was hard to get it in the slot.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, maybe you can help -- I totally recognized the guy behind the desk there -- do you know who he was? Possibly he employed me as a temp at some point.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:37 (twenty-two years ago)

it was the first time i've ever voted in a polling station, as i've always voted by post before. i was kind of surprised that i didn't need to give any form of id or anything; i didn't get a polling card (useless royal mail), so all i did was point at my name on a list. quite a lot of opportunity for fraud, i'd've thought.

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I was upset to be told that the ballot paper was not to be folded. Folding the ballot paper is the key symbol of the secret ballot. I half expected to see a lackey of the local Laird outside in a whipping kind of mood.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you may have had to go to the other table. They were women on the table I went to.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Mm, there was a lady and this guy. It was on Blue Boar St.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I had to fold the ballot paper three times just to get it in the slot!

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

oh right, different polling station! My polling station is St Matthews Parish Centre, Marlboro Rd.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Archel: gasp! We had to place ours face down in a funny tray thing. I think they were going to be read and counted by modern information computing technology.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

bah, modern information computing technology taking away the right of local government workers/bank clerks to earn a few quid counting ballots...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Mine was truly old-school foldation all the way. Gah, Tim and his edgy multi-culti-info-technology.

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

We had to show a special embossed mark to the man. However he didn't look very interested in it.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm surprised (as always) by the lack of ID required as surely it means unofficial proxy voting becomes all too easy (darn why didn't i think of that...)

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

You used to get good money being a poll clerk.

I fucked my postal ballot up, like a tit.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

How did Herod cope without CHADS, etc?

― Enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. Matt is going with his blind friend to help him vote later. I don't really understand how official proxy voting works, but the people there this morning didn't seem like they'd stop Matt from marking Colin's form for him, tbh...

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

That old-fashioned voting might be alright for the provinces but we wouldn't tolerate it in our high-intensity just-in-time hyper-hip London polling life.

My polling station was some kind of baptist church.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

has there actually been a discussion thread about eg the london mayoral election, btw?!

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

At my polling station there didn't seem to be any effort at secrecy. No curtains on the booths, no folding papers (I know that's standard for this)... and some helpful guy there took my papers and put them in the boxes. I'm sure this can't be right. Especially as he got a good look at my votes. And the woman with the register was deaf so I had to shout my name and address, so this guy knows Everything.
xpost by a mile.

― beanz (beanz), Thursday, 10 June 2004 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

the no curtains thing is to make they can keep an eye on you - make sure you don't sneak extra voting cards out of your coat, etc.

― Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

That makes sense. I can't believe they're allowed to take your cards though. Well if the BNP are successful in my area I'll know whom to blame.

― beanz (beanz), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:09 (twenty-two years ago)

is there actually chance of norris being mayor, or is that just wishful thinking from the evening standard?

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

actually william hill apparently have norris at 6-1 and ken at 1-12, so i probably shouldn't worry.

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

beanz, it's not *really* a secret ballot anyway, because they write your ballot paper number next to your name, so in theory one could go through and work out who voted for what. this was partly why my grandfather rarely voted...

our polling station is also some sort of church, although it was good to see the school at the bottom of the road being used too. they always used to use my primary school, then one year they thought, "hang on, why don't we use the community centre, then we won't have to shut the school". a sad day...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i feel left out! does anyone know how long (if ever) i have to live here before i can vote? someone asked me the other day and i have no idea...i know basics about immigration and dual citizenship and stuff, but don't know if i'd be able to vote even if i end up like that...

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

If you end up with british ,or indeed any other european citizenship, you will be able to vote.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)

i *think* you need to be a citizen and on the electoral reegister and that's it...

...oh, and not be in prison or a loony.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

CarsmileSteve: good point (xpost)
Dirty tricks allegations

― beanz (beanz), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

...oh, and not be in prison or a loony.

oh darn. well, it was worth asking...

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

BBC LONDON last night said Norris and Livingstone were neck and neck. Arse and tit more like. Livingstone in the bag, though we won't find out officially until about 2pm tomorrow I guess.

Livingstone being the official Labour candidate won't hurt him because the other three elections in London give the vote plenty of chances to give the Labours a bloody nose.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 10 June 2004 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 126 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

the backlash Ken is facing:

a: the congestion charge, very unpopular with the petrolheads [also Ken outsourced the jobs to Coventry, not looking after London's interests]

b: ken loses his maverick independence rejoining the labour party

c: the labour party not popular with many voters due to Iraq, and more right wing policies such as tuition fees.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

but he's KEN! also the alternative is SHAGGER NORRIS!!!!

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

d. irritiating voice and cheap demagoguery.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

there were other alternatives on the ballot such as Simon Hughes and um.... wacky Frank Maloney

Norris will the get the petrolheads vote.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

BUT KEN WAS ALWAYS ANTI-WAR!!!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not like he's suddenly started supporting the war since he rejoined the Labour Party, has he?

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

But people will assume that, in rejoining the Party, he's gone soft on the war-mongers and Their War. And so on.

― cis (cis), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

well no kate, but, "he has rejoined the party"="quite how against the war is he?" in some strange people's minds...

x-post

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Although... wait, when /did/ he rejoin the Party? Was a while back, wasn't it?

I'm more inclined to think that, with Ken, it's more a question of personality than party - but if people think of his specifically as 'the labour candidate' they might well assume he's representative of the party line.

― cis (cis), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

he was the official Labour party candidate = therefore sitting duck for protest vote, there ain't no fat franky dobson this time around !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i think ken rejoined sometime in 2003, google to find out

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

not before the war though, unless i am mistaken...

anyway, WHERE ARE MY DAMN RESULTS??? maybe the hyper efficient scanners aren't working...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 11 June 2004 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Conservatives have won:

Barnet and Camden
Croydon and Sutton
Brent and Harrow

Lab won:

City and East
Lambeth and Southwark
Enfield and Harringay

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed, don't do that to me. A slow scroll suggested that Norris had it...

(I wish the BBC front page did not have Patrick 'Mad As A Hatter Macgooghan" on it, he looks unerring like Norris to me).

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

So far thats 226,805 constituency AM votes to the conservatives and 208,291 to lab. Even assuming people don't split tickets it comes down to second preferences and there are still other constituencies to come in. The constituency boundaries are a bunch of arse though. CAmden and Barnet what the fuck is that?

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Bexley and Bromley
Ealing and Hillingdon
South West

all elected conservative members

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.londonelects.org.uk/

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

UKIP put labour into 4th in bexley and bromley

ooh eck

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

in fact UKIP and Respect pretty strong all around.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I told you Bexley and Bromley were fucking shit, didn't I?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

The hipsterwideboy they intervied on ldn voted UKIP becausehe thought 'the asylum situation is getting out of hand'. twat arsehole cunt

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

We are truly in a third 50s

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

How do people KNOW the asylum system is getting out of hand? The average Londoner wouldn't even have noticed if they weren't being told about it in five different papers every single day...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn these asylum seekers coming over here cleaning our toilets, hoovering our offices, it shouldn't be alowed.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

also for that matter broadcasting our tv, building our broadcast playout systems and training our broadcasters (as he three iraqi refugees at work do)

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I have been mysteriously removed from the electoral roll, so no vote for me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

But as we know, Matt, even middle class suburban Londoners mix with a melting pot of different cultures every day.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

we wrote to your council and told them you were a loony

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

A question: did UKIP challenge for many Council seats outside London? There is a clear incentive to stand for the London Assembly because the proportional representation system benefits them. That soesn't really apply elsewhere though.

And the percentage change in vote share for the big 3 parties that we're seeing so far in London (compared to 2000 election) on only a slightly increased turnout (Labour down 6% on average, Lib Dims 0% to +3%, Con -2% to +2%) doesn't really translate into the scary overall percentages nationally that were mentioned this morning on the back of the Council election results.

― zebedee (zebedee), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't think so. That's the BNPs turf, think of them as two sides of the same coin or the ABC1 and C2DE aspect of the same grouping

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

UKIP 148 wards contested, BNP 80 wards contested

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

so far BNP 7 councilors up 4 and UKIP 2 up 1

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

YAY KEN!

― cis (cis), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

It's Ken

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Surprisingly he got more 2nd pref votes than Norris; in fact, Norris's 2nd pref votes were announced first and weren't enough to close the 140k+ gap from the first round.

Ken : 685541 + 142839 = 828380 (55.4%)
Steve: 542423 + 124755 = 667178 (44.6%)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

phew

double the congestion charge now please

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

damnit I need birmingham, epping forest and the london top up now

― Ed (dali), Friday, 11 June 2004 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The local BBC news was going on about "First UKIP councillor in Britain elected in our area!" They interviewed him. He's a Hull newsagent, and the feeling I got from the interview was that he's not at all bright.

(or maybe I'm just a snob. Bad grammar didn't stop Prescott, after all.)

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 11 June 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, it's not all that surprising that Livingstone got more 2nd pref votes considering that Lib Dems got 284k votes to BNP/UKIP's combined 174k.

Ken actually got a grand total of 251k 2nd pref votes (which means nearly 20% of Norris voters liked Ken second) and Norris got 223k (14% of Kennites went silver on Shagger). LD got 465k best-loser nods and the Greens 209k.

The BNP beating the Greens on 1st pref is pretty depressing.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 June 2004 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

go ken!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 11 June 2004 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Other statistical tidbits:

Norris won only 3 of 14 constituencies on 1st pref: Croydon & Sutton (grr), Bromley & Bexley and West Central. Respect's overall 5th place comes chiefly from their performances in City & East (3rd!) and North East (4th). Simon Hughes beat Norris into 3rd in Lambeth & Southwark.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 June 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, I'm spouting electoral balls - Norris also won Havering & Redbridge. Respect had the greatest deviation in local performance: from 0.6% of the vote in Bekkksley & Bromley to an amazin' 12% in City & East.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 June 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

On the second preferene run-off, Livingstone was only down by 2.5% from 2000; far more comfortable than was predicted, eh?

Considering that, to my knowledge, the UKIP, BNP and CPA were the other parties of the right, and only got about 11% between them, it's not surprising that Norris couldn't break through further.

― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 11 June 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Michael; BNP beating Greens... aye, too right. But, Respect weren't around last time, and they clearly split the left vote.

There may have been less of a Labour % as last time in terms of Dobson/Livingstone making up 52.1% then, but the other centre-left/left parties actually did much better:

2000 LD 13.1, GP 2.2.
2004 LD 15.2, GP 3.1, Respect 3.6.

― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 11 June 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Phew. I can continue my househunt without worrying that the busses will cease. Double the congestion charge? Just ban private cars from the centre of London and institute whopping fines. Woo!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Saturday, 12 June 2004 07:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with DC: asylum seekers are a legend to most people: something they have heard about, but never seen evidence of.

― the kenfox, Saturday, 12 June 2004 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The weird thing is, that most people conflate "asylum seekers" with "beggars". In my last job, my department actually worked with asylum seekers. It was eye-opening on one level, in that this was a hospital treating the physical effects of torture. It was eye-opening on another level, as a department that was desperately looking for medical translators, having doctors, scientists, educated people that they were not allowed to employ. Anyway, this hearsay, basically what my old boss at the hospital told me, but it certainly put the whole controversy in a completely different light.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Saturday, 12 June 2004 09:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Time to move back to Italy I think.

I am apalled by the strength of the UKIP vote, and the strength of the BNP vote as well, I know they got no seats, but UKIP plus BNPplus englishdemocrat beats labour in the shareof the vote.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 14 June 2004 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought we'd run out of racists when every member of a particular generation had died but sadly they just keep making more of the fuckers.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 June 2004 06:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the only areas where BNP support is reassuringly low (3-4%) are where UKIP are returning MEPs. Xenophobia finds a home on an 'anti-bureaucracy/anti-corruption' ticket and RK-S gets a new job out of it.

We're still waiting for Scotland/Northern Ireland Euro results, yes? At least an opportunity there for the UK-wide Tory share to fall even further below 1832 Reform Act levels. Small comfort.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 14 June 2004 06:57 (twenty-two years ago)

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