Am I crazy for thinking my friend shouldn't have a baby?

I mean, we're supposed to just keep mum about these issues? Why?

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xpost again

Part of the problem is that women are taught that this is not only their duty, but their life-goal. Then, they make the choice, and are miserbale for the rest of their lives. What about finding herself first? Really being a person who feels like they have something to offer a child? What about being happy on her own?

Babies don't necessarily give unconditional love the way dogs do. They can be extremely hard work, very demanding, very ungrateful, very selfish. Her baby might grow up into a little person who hates her for not being able to provide a better life for him/her - a proper family, the latest trainers or computer games which all his/her friends at school have because Mummy doesn't have any money or a good job because she dropped out of school. Kids can be cruel and resentful. You can offer a child all the love in the world, but don't underestimate the powerful effects of peer pressure and social circumstances on their relationship with you.

Also, the child may end up loving her, but she may end up hating the child once she realizes she has scrapped what is normally the best part one's life, or abandoned many potential futures, to have a baby. It sounds like she's trying to fill a void (as noted earlier), which is a terrible reason to have a baby. But I don't know what you can do to prevent it.

She needs to find who she is first, and why she seeks love. A kid will not give her that. In fact, a kid gets in the way of that, and she'll only end up resenting him/her.

She has SO much to learn about herself right now. This is the time for her. She'd be so angry if she gave that up. God, there's so much to see and do at 18! And having a baby is not one of them.

But, of course, I got the piss ripped out of me for elitism. However, things like this thread make me KNOW I WAS RIGHT.

I don't know what this word was supposed to be, either. My brain is against me. I am going to start keeping a list of words like this and "oxo-culture" which just pop up randomly in my posts. Am I getting Alzheimers or some such degenerative brain disease?

I should also note that my elitist viewpoints on devolution were formed back in the 90s when none of my friends seemed to want to have children, ever, and I thought this was a sad shame, because most of them were better qualified to be parents than the people I did see having children.

However, two things have changed since then. First off, the baby as accessory fad at the turn of the milennium. I'm not saying that my friends were having babies because of fads, more because there seemed to be a change in the culture that was more accepting of babies among hipsters. (Sorry to use that term.) Secondly, I see the friends who *didn't* have children taking a more active role in the raising of their siblings' children. Fulfilling the role of "crazy cool aunt or uncle" who will provide good alternative role models.

I still think LB's friend is deeply psychologically scarred, and the last person on earth who should be raising a child at the moment. But then I think most people on this thread have agreed with that.

Seven years later they now have two children, are separated after an abusive marriage, are still on welfare and my cousin is a drug dealer.

I don't know what my point is other than I think sterilzation should be pushed on everyone no matter what their educational level.

But they were fucked up in their turn.
By fools in old style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can
And don't have any kids yourself.

(Don't feel like an idiot, I think you know who the idiot is in that scenario LB).

This is also odd. If you have a 'feeling' you can't have children, there are presumably tests you can do without actually having to try it out just to see...

I already feel so sorry for this baby. What a selfish, deluded bitch.

I know that I have gone through baby crazy phases, but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't have a baby when I had that urge at 18. I mean, I was pretty obsessed at that point, but somehow I knew it wasn't a great idea. They aren't like puppies, as CJ pointed out.

And this baby is going to be her life?? She hates her own life?? Poor baby!

And I've always been against this having-a-kid-as-a-namesake-only mentality. Oh, let's hurry up and have a kid so in case I die, it can grow up without a dad.

Anyway, I realize I'm just rehashing what others have said. I'm sorry your friend reacted so impulsively on the phone and didn't hear you out. I can only hope that after she hung up, she thought a little more about what she's planning to do.

(You know, I was just discussing with co-workers this morning about the guy that works in our warehouse department. He is VERY slow, is married to someone who is slow and much younger, was abused very badly growing up, so was his wife... and his wife's first kid was taken away by the state because she wouldn't restrict the kid's access to the grandparents who were obviously abusing him as they did her. They are still around too. And now she's preggo and they're both really excited. And I'm thinking, huh, maybe some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids. Shouldn't there be a line drawn?)

When my mum (who is deaf) was pregnant with me, a shopkeeper looked at her bump and said: 'oh, do they let you?' If people like her decide who is a suitable parent, then no way.

Um, yeah, while having a baby isn't necessarily something that ruins one's life, I'd say she'd do well to wait several years. A boyfriend I had tried the 'wanting someone to carry on (my) family name' bit when I was 18 and he was about to be shipped off to the Gulf - I told him to buy a dog.

Sure, it's been done, very often quite successfully, I know that... but much like spandex, just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it.

I have to thank everybody here, y'all have made me feel a little better (even though I'm still worried as hell about my friend).

"(On the bright side, the baby will probably be eaten by the neglected weiner dogs.)"

I wouldn't put it past them, they are pretty mean dogs.

If this is one of your friend's issues, could you perhaps convince her to go to a gynecologist for a preconceptional checkup? Perhaps she'll listen if a doctor tells her there's no medical reason for her to rush into parenthood.

x-post. So yeah, if you're going to involve yourself, stick to arguments like that one.