Football Casuals, RFI, C/D, S&D

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Tell me about this early style tribe. I hear that brands paid pilgramage to included Burberry, Izod and Pringle and am intrigued. Also tell me about the Perry Boys (were they confined to Manchester?). Pictures most welcome.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I suspected this would be from you, Mary! I'm afraid I have little knowledge to impart, except that yes, Perry Boys were a just a Manchester tribe, as far as I understand it.

Not so 'early', I would say? I guess I see it all, loosely, as one of the branches of mod.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

a rather shabby bastard child of mod, but connected nonetheless.

chris to thread, obv.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:37 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.djhistory.com/bb/displayStory.php?id=54&group=g_general

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:41 (twenty-two years ago)

mod as in soulboy semi-urban acid house mod. boys own romanticized...

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Mod as in spending money on top clobber to differentiate oneself from the scum. I've decided I hate mods, recently. Boys Own variety, especially.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:52 (twenty-two years ago)

mmmm, barbour jackets and deerstalker hats? isn't it? enduring image.

Sergio Tacchini tracksuits in pale blue and grey

wallabies

if by izod you mean lacoste, then yes, especially pastel cardigans in the early eighties, and gallini three stripe t-shirts with a huge balloon

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

This page offers a useful introduction:

The early 80's saw the birth of the Casual, out went the previous skinhead fashions and in came Pringle jumpers, Lois cords, Farahs and Burberry scarves. The label was the thing, and the more expensive and exclusive the better. For the first time since the 60's Mod, lads were happy to look trendy and tidy, and these lads would use the terraces at their local club as their catwalks. During the early '80s the choice of menswear in most cities was limited to a few big department stores not like these days. That's why tracking down those obscure tennis shirts became essential for the Casual - Fila, Lacoste, Tacchini etc were the labels of the early '80s.

A lot of the fashion ideas came from abroad, so it's no surprise that the Scousers of Liverpool were at the forefront on the casual movement, their club were regulars in Europe in the late 70s and early 80's thus giving their supporters the chance to shop and thieve their way through Europe. As the grapevine spread news of the Casual phenomenon across the country, a 'uniform' of sorts began to emerge. This could be said to comprise of certain labels such as Slazenger, Lacoste, Ellesse, Burberry, Lois, Kappa, Levis etc. Anoraks, cords and bleached jeans became a regular sight on the Inter City service trains at a weekend. Arguably more importantly were the trainers. The knack of sporting the correct footwear became an art in itself.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

patrick kagoules.....

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 08:11 (twenty-two years ago)

What does 'terrace' mean in this context?

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:18 (twenty-two years ago)

standing areas at football grounds, the cheaper areas and sections where the causals would gather and (among other things) watch the match

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Aha. What is the deal with Boys Own? And what is a kagoul?

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:31 (twenty-two years ago)

a kagoul is like a windcheater. not sure about where boys own fit into all this.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't realize that each club had a nicknamed roughneck following (Aberdeen Football Cauuals, Motherwell Saturday Service)? What are your favorite nicknames and which were the most notorious groups?

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

mary, are you after some hott hoolie action? ;)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Please don't take this the wrong way. I am actually completely against the violent aspect of it. I am more interested in the fashion & historical significance. (And the cute boyz.)

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Mary, read the story in Disco Biscuits written by Gavin Hills about the football hooligans called the Inter-City Firm. Also check Marabou Stork Nighmares by Irvine Welsh (half of which is going on the chib with Hibs). Avoid books about Chelsea Headhunters written by John King, as he is prolierthanthou wanker.

Y'all are forgetting that the most flash hooligans wear Stone Island gear these days.

Italian hooligans dress like English country gents, in Barbour and tartan. Whenever Ed and I passed one in the streets of Florence we pretended to grab our forelocks, genuflect and crow "Squire!" in bad West Country accents.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks, S. Has anyone seen the film The Football Factory?

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i think pete has, i don't think it actually got that big a release...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

John King wrote Football Factory. He is an unbearable rockist.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i've seen it. it's a john king adaptation. it's okay. i don't agree with suzy about avoiding king. he's one of the better voices aon this stuff. kevin sampson's awaydays, about football hooliganism on merseyside is okay, too. at least not london-centric.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, rockist hoolie = "sealed knot society, lets see you try do this one, Luton Town Millwall, 1985"

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh dear. This little mannequin Football Casual boy in my Time Out London with Moz on the cover looks more svelte and stylish than I fear the real FC's were. He certainly doesn't look like he could beat anyone up.

My first port of call is "Among the Thugs" by Bill Buford. Is that a mistake?

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate hooligan books / films but I support a club that had a notorious one in the 70's and 80's, so I've read a couple.

I knew a couple of kids at school who were involved. They were morons, but total fanny magnets.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

re buford, no, it's not bad. a bit rambling at times, but good reportage.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

for the record, i HATE football

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

We all do this mroning.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)

it brings out the nation's latent autism. every single conversation i've had this weekend has involved football and it will be like this for a month. i am already going mental.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)

funniest name has got to be leicesters "baby squad" (reminds me of that monty python "hells grannies" sketch)

― zappi (joni), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

bradfords was 'ointment'

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Unfortunately not very literary.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)

baby squad was a coomon name, mainly for the kids (aged 12/13) who aped (literally) their older compatriots in the full squad.

Chesterfield's own bunch were the Chesterfiels b@st@rd squad - and a right load of tw@ts they were (I went to school with a lot of them, well, the baby squad anyway)

most flash hoolies were wearing Stone Island about 6 years ago really, they've moved up to CP company now it seems and the all too ubiquitous burberry cap was around for a long time but seems to have been coerced into Chav-wear (where a lot of it seeems to go)

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Bill Buford's a great starter as book's about an American trying to get his head around the whole concept.

Kevin Sampson is the former manager of The Farm who've rehashed one of their two hits for this year's England theme (which bugged the hell out of us watching TOTP as all the little footballers behind The Farm were white and it looked v. Tomorrow Belongs To Me. Me to Ed: 'Could this be any more Aryan? Call Benetton quick!'). He knows quite a bit about his subject and there are all kinds of nauseating Face articles about Peter Hooton et al being terrace gods.

Dave, my King-hate arises from a specific incident but it put me right off his writing. Most of the people I recommend can stretch to, y'know, other topics as well - which addresses your latent British autism idea. King however is more twatburger than Aspberger if we're going all spectral

Stone Island worship might well be a Scottish thing. Alan Warner and Irvine Welsh are head to toe in the stuff.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Alan Clarke's 'The Firm' w. Gary Oldman seems to have a big dvd afterlife. It's good (filmed on Thamesmead) but no real fashion details.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Thamesmead is always so much nicer on film: Beautiful Thing, Clockwork Orange, Goodbye Charlie Bright to thread.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

From JtN's link, the under-16 casuals of Motherwell were called the Tufty Club. Seems like Scotland came up with better names?

I read a horrible book by Kevin Sampson on, I think it was, Britpop, or the rise or a band, oh groan.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

ahhh Scotland, always a mile behind ;o)

Is the Bil;l Buford book the other one that's just been made into a film? The film has had terrible reviews from people who know about these things.

That would be Powder, Mary, not great, no.

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:35 (twenty-two years ago)

West Ham's young firm were known as the Under 5's. They had their own calling cards with spelling mistakes et al.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

on my way to a match last season we were in the hole in the wall where there were all sorts of different fans, and one of them was having the piss ripped by his mates for having a burburry cap and scarf on "haha, are you some sort of hoolie?" they were saying to him.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

As far as I know, the Bill Buford book's main legacy is a song called "The National Front Disco."

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

PH is a kind of a terrace god, in that he founded the end, from which many of the new breed of fanzines got their reputation, to me he just seems like a chancer who'll try and make a buck/good time out of any opportunity that comes along, dresses well.

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Boys Own upthread as in Weatherall/Farley/Bocca Juniors? Fanzine or summat?

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:40 (twenty-two years ago)

PH? Did I miss something?

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

enrique - yes, I think that's where it started

Mary PH = Peter Hooton

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

hooton was on tv the other day, in his new capacity as, "style commentator"

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks, ILE Casuals. I can always count on you to get me sorted vis a vis Anglosthetics.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

powder was shite, one of the worst books ever, but awaydays is a bit better. sampson's a pretty clumsy writer, but at least it's a perspective on this stuff from the north of england, different to king et al.
if you want to know about football hooliganism etc, then i think king's the place to go, regardless of what spat anyone has had with him. he could quite possibly be annoying, but that doesn't really matter. he's obsessed with his subject and writes well.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, I didn't know that the Farm (with PH) did All Together Now. I always thought that was a Madchester number.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Powder is only any use to people who know exactly which record company people are being pastiched by Sampson. It is not quite the Bergdorf Blondes of the Britpop books. That would be Camden Girls by Jane Owen.

PH = Peter Hooton, lead singer of The Farm.

(Chris I learned half of my received knowledge about hoolies etc. from $¢0tt K!ng).

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, I'm not surprised!

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

and Mary:
http://www.trackies.co.uk/

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Madchester != bands actually from Manchester, cf Charlatans.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Though see, I've never heard of the Farm, while I have definitely heard that song many mnay times.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:57 (twenty-two years ago)

via Coolio, Pachelbel, Spiritualized et al

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 14 June 2004 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

So no pics? I'm beginning to think these football casuals don't really exist.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/iccoventry/sep2003/9/6/000A1CF2-7D4A-1F79-A8B480C328EC0000.jpg

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.terraceretro.com/backissue/lads.jpg

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.terraceretro.com/backissue/faces.gif

actually, the site these are from isn't a bad intrtoduction

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

haha
http://www.terraceretro.com/backissue/collage.gif

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Beautiful. What site are those from, C?

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

terraceretro.com

I can only find a couple of the back issues though

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

the football factory is a bit rubbish. not as bad as the charles and eddie brimson (is that their names?) books - they are fricking awful. avoid like the plague. what is that I.D. film like? i always wanted to see that, but seeing as it hasnt been mentioned here, maybe its a bit shit.

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

ID is good but is rather gritty and hardly mentions the fashions etc. Filmed largely in Rotherham and Sheffield too.

Charles and Dougie.

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you sure? I thought ID was filmed on the Isle of Dogs? The team is Shadwell, I remember that.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

it was filmed in bradford also, valley parade. about 10 of my friends were extras in that film

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

it's based in shadwell but filmed all over. like most of the stuff abt hooliganism etc, it's a pretty clunky story, but the mood is set well. the reason i like john king is that he's not as obvious as most people who write about this kind of thing. he has a really good, smooth written style that puts him head and shoulders above his peers.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

there's a bit where they go up north, the fight in the market is Rotherham, they're outside sheffield station at one point too.

― chris (chris), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i only started hating football about two years ago, before i liked it a lot. dunno what happened.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I think an important concept to introduce here is 'the flick', usually seen in the company of 'the wedge'.

I read a book by John King called Human Punk. I didn't like it. I didn't like ID either.

I am impressed by Chris's knowledge.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 14 June 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

this excerpt from legendary casual fanzine "the end" will clarify very little, but the fact that "Bruce Foxton in the HMV" is on the list of "outs" for that issue is quite amusing.

― dave amos, Monday, 14 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

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