computer people: question about privacy on the www

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
So I'm pretty clueless when it comes to how the internet works, how web sites keep track of page views, how cookies work, etc. I've been reading all sorts of things that talk about the invasion of privacy, individualized advertising, and assorted alarmist big-brotherish type things. I don't know what to believe.

I'm wondering if those of you in the know can tell me what information gets stored about a web site's visitors.

(For example, on a small scale: If I visit your blog, do you know that your page got one hit? Can you find my IP address? Can you track how I got there? Can you tell which of your pages I visited? Can you tell how many times I came back? Or what?)

What parts of my browsing habits are visible to the people behind the web site?

alexandra s (alexandra s), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

who have you been stalking?

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

who haven't I been stalking is the real question....

alexandra s (alexandra s), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

you should stalk me. I'm interesting.

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

online stalking C/D?

alexandra s (alexandra s), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

omg, quit following me!

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

In your small scale example, alexandra, I can tell the following from the logs on my site:

- The IP address of the visitor
- Which page they came from (whether it was another page on my site or some other site. Note that there is no info here if they came from a bookmark or by typing in a URL directly -- the referrer field only shows up when the visitor got there by clicking a link)

From that info, I can tell which pages one user visited in a single sitting, given that their IP address + referrers would make a little path through the pages on my site that they'd looked at. I'd also be able to tell if they reloaded a single page multiple times.

Given the way a lot of internet service providers set up their services, a single user's IP address can change, so it's often hard to track one specific user's multiple visits over time, though in the short term it can be done the way I describe above.

The thing is, log files are a big load of text, and unless you know what you're looking for or have some kind of reporting software that parses them and constructs reports, it's unlikely you'd notice any one user unless they were behaving weirdly. The most common thing I do personally is filter my log file to see where hits are coming from (so I can tell if any other websites are sending me a lot of traffic) and occasionally I will check hits to specific pages if I want to see how they're doing. I rarely if ever track one user's trail through my site.

martin m. (mushrush), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I find your IP address: yes if you program the site to find out; however, it's not a great lot of use, since the majority of ISPs dynamically allocate IP numbers these days.

Can I tell which pages you visit: yes; if I log which pages your IP number went to.

Can I tell if you come back: not really, assuming your IP number is reallocated by your ISP to someone else.

Can I track how you got there: not unless the URL contains something to say where it came from, which would have to be done by design; often search engines do this with their "sponsored links". People often talk about cookies with respect to this; however, you can't read a cookie that was written by a website in a different domain (assuming browser software is working as expected).

Again, assuming no software flaws in your browser, only your browsing habits on a particular site are visible to an individual site.

Keith Watson (kmw), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Interesting. Thanks!

alexandra s (alexandra s), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I find your IP address: yes if you program the site to find out; however, it's not a great lot of use, since the majority of ISPs dynamically allocate IP numbers these days.

Furthermore, if an AOL user visits, they may well appear to have a different IP address for each individual page request, making it much harder to track them through the site.

caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

However, a webmaster can write software that will put a cookie on your computer. Then when you come back to my site, you'd send back that cookie, and I would know it was a repeat visit, and could tie it to an earlier visit. Even if you IP address changes, the cookie will stay there until it is set to expire or until you manually remove the cookie from your browser.

lyra (lyra), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Also isnt it the case that if you browse via a proxy only the IP of the proxy appears in the page hits? Which means you're effectively covered, if much/all of your ISP also uses same said proxy?

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 03:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Supposedly quite soon, I am getting a big package of software to do all of this stuff for me. W3btr3nds or something like that, I think it's called. You can track almost anything about your visitors. Where they came from, what pages they looked at, even the path they took through your site. You can find out what IP address they have, or track repeat visits through cookies. You can tell what kind and version of browser they use, what kind of operating system/computer they have, even what resolution screen they use. Fantastic amounts of information! OK, all of this is tracking your computer, not necessarily *you*. But still. I'd empty my cookies frequently if I were you.

The good news is, however, the sheer volume of freaking data means that we only really pay attention to general trends in traffic. I don't look at this info and go "Wow, look at all this personal information I have about people, mwah hah hah!" rather I go "crap, another report I have to make for the Marketing Department. Feh."

Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 07:07 (twenty-two years ago)

to add to the above (which is all pretty spot on):

as keith mentioned, cookies are only readable by the site that set them so if ilx has set a cookie on your machine (which it probably has as that's how it rememebers who you are) no other server will be able to read it (so amazon.com can't find out you're an ilx reader for instance).

that said, because lots of ads in commercial websites are served by one or two advertising companies (doubleclick springs to mind, advertising.com is another) then they can tell which other sites that are also served by them you have visited recently and can sell this information to both the websites involved.

have a look through your cookie cache, it's quite enlightening.

i have a bigger problem with sites that require registration and will often lie about my details. giving each one a different (but valid) email address is often useful because it lets you see who sells on your information to spammers.

koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 07:42 (twenty-two years ago)

God, yes, as soon as you put in any of your personal details into a registration (or even a quiz) it lands straight in a database! And databases of contacts are counted as company assets to be used or sold if necessary. Yes, there are laws about this sort of thing, but as my recent thread atests, that doesn't mean that the people doing such things are even aware of or follow those laws.

Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 07:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I find it interesting that people worry about being tracked when they'll happily talk here, or on LJ or whererver, about themselves, what they did, who they shagged, how much they earn, where they eat/drink, what music they buy, the drugs they take, the jobs they screwed over....

... etc etc etc...

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I don't worry about it so much (though I have toned down much of this kind of talk through awful experience) because I know the people who programme the database, and I don't think that they're selling on that information any time soon. Who knows, when Noodles gets desperate enough for coffee, maybe he'll auction the database to a marketing firm, but I doubt it. ;-)

Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Yabut they dont have to sell anything - Ive seen people be found by exes, family, etc from google searches... anyone who leaves regular names and whatnot in public places is open for being found!

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yup. I know. ILX has certainly been used by stalker freak psychos to find me!

Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

so would people with live journals be able to track their readers in this way?

gem (trisk), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't know. I've never had a livejournal (because I believe that diaries should be private) so I can't tell you how their stats work.

Apostrophe Catastrophe (kate), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I just be careful about what I say in public. Example: that OK Cupid thing has that questionare, and a lot of the questions are about drug/sex habits. I skipped all of those. Who knows where that stuff ends up!?

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

nine years pass...

If I want to move away from gmail and get my own domain and email address, a) is this a valid way to reasonably secure my email? B) can you recommend a registrar ?

I can't keep up, I can't keep up, I can't keep up (calstars), Wednesday, 30 October 2013 20:55 (twelve years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.