Red Dwarf: Sucks or Rules?

I don't understand why people bag on Red Dwarf so much. Taken purely a a sitcom, it's still incredibly funny, and vastly innovative and original.

sorry folx

and i repeat: CAT = GENIUS (for the 1st 2 seasons, anyway).

Was Season 5 the one with The Inquisitor? That was beyond great.

I gave up on season seven about halfway through. Not necessarily bad, just... weird. In a bad way.

The film looks dead in the water.

My abiding memory is DUD but I'm judging on the later, bad stuff.

Even having had Carcass on it can't redeem it.

Just a big dud.

I used to watch the first and second seasons while staying up late in high school--they showed it on PBS, and I thought it was pretty funny even though I probably missed a lot of Brit cultural references. Haven't seen enough of the later ones to compare.

Also, SMEG.

Red Dwarf novels - c/d?

Rules _
_/ \___
\
\
\__
Sucks

Overall: Rules.

Best Line: Yes, but Rimmer Directive 217 states just as clearly, "No chance you metal bastard."

classic, for the most part.

or to put it another way:

DWAYNE DIBLEY!
funny the first time.

me too!

what the fuck happened to Red Dwarf? I actually think I loved 1-6 but from 7 on (what series are we on now? 8? i've missed pretty much every single one of the series just gone), omg wtf!

is it just the same as before? but the expensive cameras put me off? everything is so clean and tidy! part of what made it good was that red dwarf and starbug were supposed to be space vehicles, but they were just complete and utter dumps! i watch the new series now and the place looks like a vision express store.

is it just not as funny as before? the new kochanski is really pretty but she doesn't really fit in as a proper character. Is it just me who's changed? Maybe this is not the time anymore for sci-fi comedy. but i still watch the old episodes now and laugh.

Holly: Good morning, Dave. It is now safe for you to emerge from stasis.
Lister: Haven't I just gone in?
Holly: Please proceed to the Drive Room for debriefing.
Lister: Where is everybody, Hol?
Holly: They're dead, Dave.
Lister: Who is?
Holly: Everybody, Dave.
Lister: What, Captain Hollister?
Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: What, Todhunter?
Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: What, Selby?
Holly: They're all dead. Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: Petersen isn't, is he?
Holly: Everybody is dead, Dave.
Lister: Not Chen?
Holly: Gordon Bennett! Yes! Chen, everybody. Everybody's dead, Dave.
Lister: Rimmer?
Holly: He's dead, Dave. Everybody's dead. Everybody is dead, Dave!
Lister: Wait. Are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?

You can't imagine the disappointment I felt when they first aired Season 3, I did grow to like the new style, but it just wasn't the same show.

The newest ones I've caught glimses of were so dud it hurt.

Agreed, apart from the excellent "You monkeys eat off the floor?" line in the first episode. A character whose only notable characteristic is being two-dimensional doesn't give you a lot of comedy mileage.

What was the awful sitcom Chris Barrie did where he was an obnoxious ex-pro footballer? Made The Brittas Empire seem almost cerebral.

Mr Fibble!

classic

Feeling like I'm having a conversation in a metal club c 1994 (no bad thing).

There's a brand new episode of The Comic Strip] coming to UK Gold. Its a famous five one with all the original cast. Peter Richardson looks really old!

can't wait for that tbh

Looking forward to it myself. Sadly Uncle Quentin wont be in it (unless they get a new actor to play him)

so is these new episodes any good?!?

Can't comment there, but one bit of ephemera unmentioned upthread worth tracking down is the audio book Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers read by Chris Barrie, who does astonishingly good impressions of the other cast members.

Dave is showing the first three episodes again tonight, in case anyone missed them (like I did)

(of the new season I mean)

I totally missed this, so cheers for the heads up. I am fully expecting it to be awful, so anything better than that will be a pleasant surprise.

Not seen the last ep yet but the series has been ok. I dont think anybody expects it to be as good as it was but it was great having it back.

I've seen four or five of them - amazingly, they really feel like circa series 4 or 5 episodes

if by "circa series 4 or 5 episodes" you mean "they feel 20 years out of date" then yes

I thought s7 might have improved with age

no

there are entire episodes in which nothing happens

RIP Rob Grant

there are entire episodes in which nothing happens

The episodes in the first three series where essentially nothing happens are among the best of the entire run. S7 isn't great but... it's better than S8.

even as a kid i remember loving how desolate the show was, how nothing happened, how they were all stuck there seemingly forever. there was something weirdly comforting about it.

been rewatching these from the start, season 1-4 almost always excellent. lots of dated cultural references ("breville" rather than a toasty feels pretty dated, berni inns) but overall the strong writing and characterisation carries it and almost every episode still very funny.

yeah 1-6 are all great TV. 8 is one of the worst things I've ever seen but of course Rob wasn't involved by then.

yeah I watched/rewatched the whole thing (apart from The Promised Land, haven't done that one yet) last year and jfc 8 is terrible. I watched 7 when it came out and hated it then and still don't like it much but maybe because it's not as bad as 8 it seemed a little better this time round

Yeah 8 was unbearable at the time, don't think I've ever watched it all and I've got a box set

Are the ones after 8 any good?

Tempted to try and get my 11yo to watch, as it might appeal to her love of grody sitcoms (friday night dinner, etc) with added sci-fi ish, tho absence of female characters will be a deal-breaker

The bad seasons came out at the same time I started growing out of (or becoming overly self-conscious about) geeky teenage things, so the experience of watching them was doubly excruciating – I thought, had it always been this terrible and I’d just been too childish to notice?

I mean, like a lot of the UK alternative comedy of the 80s/90s, it was incredibly juvenile, but - I dunno - that tone feels sort of charming and innocent in retrospect?

I actually watched a few episodes recently as I thought Doug Naylor came across very well on a podcast. They were fun! Every season from 1-5 has good bits. 6 is tired but has the lightbulb gag. The rest are bad. Haven't seen the revival, except for one time travel episode I can't remember the name of, that was really rather good, but I haven't felt like watching more.

In my head I think "Oh it was nice when a sci-fi show could have two black leads and no one whined about it" but I wonder if that's right

I remember when Rick & Morty started thinking that Red Dwarf was also fairly adept at slipping quite hardcore sci-fi concepts re: time travel and alternate dimensions, etc, into an accessible sitcome format, though I'm by no means an expert in hardcore sci-fi concepts.

Never agreed with the post-S6 hate myself, I like all seasons including 8. Can't imagine fans of the 'classic' run not enjoying the last two series (XI-XII) either as they really aren't doing anything much different from S3-S6 - loved the idea of Kryten's midlife crisis along with many other bits.

I think S6 is one of the best, and S7 has a couple of great episodes and most of the rest is eh fine bit bloated but not terrible, but S8 was so bad it put me off it for good, that two-parter about the badly animated dinosaur was the nadir, and that Dave special (S9?) wasn't much better. Have heard the series since have been better but never got around to checking them out.

of the later ones I enjoyed 'Trojan' most but it's nothing on the original six series
agree a couple of episodes from s7 are up there too

S8, the one where they are jailed? It's alright come one, what's the deal?

The film effect is anathema to comedy, the basic dynamic of four nobs ripping the pins out of each other has gone, I want the SF element to be flavour sauce not the entire motor of the show's existence

There is an absolute dearth of funny lines, I'm not gonna over analyse the badness

yes, and it's not even good sci-fi, it's got the production quality of a CITV show

I think a lot of it is because it just doesn't have the vibe of the show. it seems like a different type of sitcom. the Captain character doesn't work. why did they drag that dinosaur story over 2 episodes, 1 was bad enough. the Cassandra one was ok I guess

I've been going through this, having only seen seasons 1-3 in Portugal and a VHS of some season 7 eps I bought on a trip to the UK.

Much of the first three seasons is stuck in my brain, and while we're not talking masterpieces here I retain quite a lot of affection, introduced me to a lot of cool sci fi concepts.

The move from Red Dwarf to Starbug is a real jump the shark moment though I can kinda see why they would have thought it a good idea: a smaller vessel with vanishing rations ups the ante in terms of despair (as well as making frequent descents to planets more intuitive). But it also removes part of the charm: being alone on this gigantic, deserted ship both adds to the melancholy but also provides a certain charm that the Starbug lacks - horrible as their predicament is there is also a certain "staying overnight at a closed mall" aspect, you can tell they derive some pleasure from treating this formerly regimented place as a playground.

What's also very apparent is that they have no care at all for consistency or continuity in their sci fi conceits: Rimmer's hologram status is very confusing, he gets drunk but complains he can't have food, people walk through him yet he's constantly afraid of things that can't hurt him. To be clear I don't think this is a weakness at all in the early comedic seasons, "whatever works best for the joke" is a good comedic approach to world building, but as it becomes more straightforward sci fi I do feel it will become more apparent that they're not actually good at establishing their own rules.

Also notable: SO MANY classic hollywood references! I wonder how much of that is the authors putting in stuff they dug w/o much care for audience and how much is that those films were still playing on UK tv and as such more present in the culture.

iirc they moved to starbug because they broke the model for red dwarf

lol seriously? could've used some of that ugly CGI budget to have it rebuilt.

ha true, I'm not sure just remember reading that somewhere

I agree that the series loses something when it shifts from Red Dwarf to Starbug, the earlier series kind of work as a meta take on the cliche about how every sitcom can be boiled down to 'two people who don't get on stuck in a room together', only they're not stuck in a room they're stuck in this gigantic ship in an even more gigantic void and they're the only two people who exist anymore. It actually ends up feeling less claustrophobic during the Starbug era.

(I love the opening of the early series with the zoom out from the tiny figure painting the ship with the funereal trumpet - I've never seen this mentioned, but the music must be inspired by the opening of Mahler's 5th symphony, right?)

(To be honest, I think it loses something when Kryten joins as a regular cast member and it becomes more of an ensemble piece instead of being about Lister and Rimmer specifically, but maybe they'd gone as far as they could with that)

I love the opening of the early series with the zoom out from the tiny figure painting the ship with the funereal trumpet - I've never seen this mentioned, but the music must be inspired by the opening of Mahler's 5th symphony, right?)

Yup, entirely otm. It's a striking intro that shows you can make cheap stuff look really impressive. Guitar led theme far too jolly (in the ending version there's the sad lyrics to counteract).

(To be honest, I think it loses something when Kryten joins as a regular cast member and it becomes more of an ensemble piece instead of being about Lister and Rimmer specifically, but maybe they'd gone as far as they could with that)

The fun thing was that prior to Kryten it really was a trio with no loyalties - the Cat is pleasant and gregarious but also very upfront that he would sell Lister and Rimmer out at the drop of a dime.

Kryten also has some pretty troubling swish gay stereotype elements - I'd guess mostly this is just down to the C3PO influence, but it gets quite uncomfortable when Kochanski shows up and he reacts like a spurned lover. I guess they kinda had to do it to have someone play the "dude worried a woman will ruin his bromamce" - it would be out of character for the Cat (tho my cats can be quite jealous and needy now I think of it!), Rimmer would've been much funnier but he wasn't there anymore.

That being said I don't hate Kochanski as a character, why because she looks interesting , and I'm happy that after a rough start they've started giving her some negative traits so she isn't just the grown up woman moaning at the manchild husband that so many sitcom women end up as (tho still a bit too close for comfort!).

On a different note, this show is very obsessed with Herman Goering wearing female underwear. I've counted three references, which is not that much, but some shows never mention it at all!

we're up to season 7 now; i was surprised that almost all of Season 5 stills stands up really well - Quarantine and Back To Reality both really good concepts... last classic season.
Season 6 feels like they're replaying some greatest hits/concepts from older episodes; still some good bits in there but its running on automatic and the fan service feels lazy.

Season 7 feels really off from the start even with the fairly good concept for Tikka To Ride; the jokes are falling flat and they're relying on greatest hits jokes (do you know Lister likes curry). The laugh track also sounds weirdly loud, almost as if its pumped up out of a lack of confidence? Stoke Me A Clipper is a genuinely bad episode. curious to see how the Kochanski episodes will be now but not holding much hope; as a dumb 13 year old watching these on first run, I think i blamed the show losing it on Chloe Annett having bad comedic chops/spoiling the crew dynamic - but i'm thinking it more likely she was unlucky enough to join at the worst possible time. we'll see!

Also not her fault for not being Clare Grogan, I guess

As far as the dud aspects go they're surely less on her and more on the writers not knowing what to do with a female character.

as a dumb 13 year old watching these on first run, I think i blamed the show losing it on Chloe Annett having bad comedic chops/spoiling the crew dynamic - but i'm thinking it more likely she was unlucky enough to join at the worst possible time. we'll see!

One of my favourite podcasts is Sonic The Comic The Podcast, about the 90's uk comic. One of the hosts was in the fandom as a teenager and now recalls with a lot of guilt and sadness how he went along with the general fandom stance that blamed editor Deborah Tate for its decline, as he now knows it was probably inevitable and the result of many factors; if anything Tate struggled valiantly to keep the lights on. I don't think it was just you, my understanding is the RD fandom hated Annett, and it's down to the same thing imo - an easy scapegoat for a bunch of problems. And surprise surprise, in geeky circles these often end up being women.

this made me go back and rewatch the first episode yesterday and what a great little episode it is.

I remember an early BBC2 show continuity announcement that went along the lines of “For fans of other shows about a grown man being harassed by hologram, why not try Quantum Leap”

lol

still gotta check out that ep where he leaps into a monkey

Season seven is a step down, yes, but season eight - oooof.

The narrative these days is "this started as a sitcom and turned into a sci-fi action show" but that's not really it; as NV mentions in earlier posts itt, it doesn't know which one it wants to be. There's tons of comedy in s8, it's just it's pretty uniformly terrible, autopilot stuff.

Of course there's plenty in the show in general that now feels regressive but in the episode I just saw the Cat fantasizes a mate (who of course also has to be black), and then is disgusted to find the real life equivalent is a Jamaican auntie, a pretty bizarrely specific punching down. You get a prison rape joke too for good measure.

It does do the it's-all-in-the-mind stop motion animation thing before Community. Not as well, obviously, but it does do that.