Do you find it hard to muster sympathy for sex addicts?

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I shouldn't, I suppose.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

They come too quickly

sexyDancer, Monday, 9 August 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it hard to muster anything after they're through with me (ka-zing!).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

in my day we called them "nymphos"

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

in my day we called them every day (ka-zing-a-ding-ding!)

oops (Oops), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

holy shit, you deserve an award for that one

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

he does!

adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but this was a serious question

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

But seriously...Charlie Sheen has my utmost sympathy.

adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost sorry

adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

That was supposed to be in tiny type, to indicate my embarrassment.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely it depends on the personal situation of the addict in question? I mean, if you are a rich, hunky, successful sex addict who gets to fuck lots of nice girls then no. If you are, say, married with kids or driven towards doing all sorts of degrading things just to get your end away then yes.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously, Nick? Why? Have you encountered sex addicts in real life and have had to make a snap judgement that you've later regretted?

(in his last sentence, Matt DC foresees his own future)

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it hard to sympathize with someone like Eric Benet.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread could be a Daily Mail article :(

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I'm not aware of meeting sex addicts. But I suppose lots of people who can't bear being single might be sex addicts by a nicer name.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it hard to be sympathetic in the sense that claiming to have an addiction to something that isn't physically addictive can seem like abdicating responsibility. But then, sometimes it helps people recover from obsessive gambling/shopping/sexing if they see their behaviour as an addiction that they have to recover from.

But then, I find it hard to muster up sympathy for a lot of people.

Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it hard to muster sympathy for dickheads.

RJG (RJG), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never thought about sex addicts before. Except that I think my friend is one. Once he left the room and I was putting a CD on to play on his computer when I found he had a porn folder with different sub-folders labelled "pregnant", "pissing", "late 20s" and stuff. it was creepy. he also has a very busy love life.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going to start using 'sex' as a verb more.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I found he had a porn folder with different sub-folders labelled "pregnant", "pissing", "late 20s" and stuff

This is a sorry arrangement. He needs to build a relational database so that he doesn't get confused when looking for pregnant pissers in their late 20s.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

A "late 20s" pr0n folder is in itself hilarious!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to know a girl who I'm convinced was a real sex addict. We went on a camping holiday and she and my friend, her long suffering boyfriend, spent more time in the tent than out of it. It came to the point about two days in when she whispered something in his ear and he shouted "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I'M *SORE* HERE WOMAN!" This was in a very quiet pub in a tiny village in Ireland, and everyone stared.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Masturbation is not sex, dudes.

sexyDancer, Monday, 9 August 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I found the whole thing a sorry arrangement. My mum mustered pity for him when I explained I thought he was a sex addict, however I suppose I myself did find it difficult to do so.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

it may not have been "late 20s" exactly!

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Unlike Cathy, I think it can be useful to see non-physical things as having addictive properties.

This, from the Economist, on the science of love.

I get a kick out of you

Feb 12th 2004

Scientists are finding that, after all, love really is down to a chemical addiction between people.

Over the course of history it has been artists, poets and playwrights who have made the greatest progress in humanity's understanding of love. Romance has seemed as inexplicable as the beauty of a rainbow. But these days scientists are challenging that notion, and they have rather a lot to say about how and why people love each other.

Is this useful? The scientists think so. For a start, understanding the neurochemical pathways that regulate social attachments may help to deal with defects in people's ability to form relationships. All relationships, whether they are those of parents with their children, spouses with their partners, or workers with their colleagues, rely on an ability to create and maintain social ties.

Defects can be disabling, and become apparent as disorders such as autism and schizophrenia—and, indeed, as the serious depression that can result from rejection in love. Research is also shedding light on some of the more extreme forms of sexual behaviour. And, controversially, some utopian fringe groups see such work as the doorway to a future where love is guaranteed because it will be provided chemically, or even genetically engineered from conception.

The scientific tale of love begins innocently enough, with voles. The prairie vole is a sociable creature, one of the only 3% of mammal species that appear to form monogamous relationships. Mating between prairie voles is a tremendous 24-hour effort. After this, they bond for life. They prefer to spend time with each other, groom each other for hours on end and nest together.

They avoid meeting other potential mates. The male becomes an aggressive guard of the female. And when their pups are born, they become affectionate and attentive parents. However, another vole, a close relative called the montane vole, has no interest in partnership beyond one-night-stand sex. What is intriguing is that these vast differences in behaviour are the result of a mere handful of genes. The two vole species are more than 99% alike, genetically.

The details of what is going on—the vole story, as it were—is a fascinating one. When prairie voles have sex, two hormones called oxytocin and vasopressin are released. If the release of these hormones is blocked, prairie-voles' sex becomes a fleeting affair, like that normally enjoyed by their rakish montane cousins.

Conversely, if prairie voles are given an injection of the hormones, but prevented from having sex, they will still form a preference for their chosen partner. In other words, researchers can make prairie voles fall in love—or whatever the vole equivalent of this is—with an injection.

A clue to what is happening—and how these results might bear on the human condition—was found when this magic juice was given to the montane vole: it made no difference. It turns out that the faithful prairie vole has receptors for oxytocin and vasopressin in brain regions associated with reward and reinforcement, whereas the montane vole does not.

The question is, do humans (another species in the 3% of allegedly monogamous mammals) have brains similar to prairie voles?

To answer that question you need to dig a little deeper. As Larry Young, a researcher into social attachment at Emory University, in Atlanta, Georgia, explains, the brain has a reward system designed to make voles (and people and other animals) do what they ought to. Without it, they might forget to eat, drink and have sex—with disastrous results.

That animals continue to do these things is because they make them feel good. And they feel good because of the release of a chemical called dopamine into the brain. Sure enough, when a female prairie vole mates, there is a 50% increase in the level of dopamine in the reward centre of her brain.

Similarly, when a male rat has sex it feels good to him because of the dopamine. He learns that sex is enjoyable, and seeks out more of it based on how it happened the first time. But, in contrast to the prairie vole, at no time do rats learn to associate sex with a particular female. Rats are not monogamous.

This is where the vasopressin and oxytocin come in. They are involved in parts of the brain that help to pick out the salient features used to identify individuals. If the gene for oxytocin is knocked out of a mouse before birth, that mouse will become a social amnesiac and have no memory of the other mice it meets. The same is true if the vasopressin gene is knocked out.

The salient feature in this case is odour. Rats, mice and voles recognise each other by smell. Christie Fowler and her colleagues at Florida State University have found that exposure to the opposite sex generates new nerve cells in the brains of prairie voles—in particular in areas important to olfactory memory.

Could it be that prairie voles form an olfactory “image” of their partners—the rodent equivalent of remembering a personality—and this becomes linked with pleasure?

Dr. Young and his colleagues suggest this idea in an article published last month in the Journal of Comparative Neurology. They argue that prairie voles become addicted to each other through a process of sexual imprinting mediated by odour.

Furthermore, they suggest that the reward mechanism involved in this addiction has probably evolved in a similar way in other monogamous animals, humans included, to regulate pair-bonding in them as well.

Sex stimulates the release of vasopressin and oxytocin in people, as well as voles, though the role of these hormones in the human brain is not yet well understood. But while it is unlikely that people have a mental, smell-based map of their partners in the way that voles do, there are strong hints that the hormone pair have something to reveal about the nature of human love: among those of Man's fellow primates that have been studied, monogamous marmosets have higher levels of vasopressin bound in the reward centres of their brains than do non-monogamous rhesus macaques.

Other approaches are also shedding light on the question. In 2000, Andreas Bartels and Semir Zeki of University College, London, located the areas of the brain activated by romantic love. They took students who said they were madly in love, put them into a brain scanner, and looked at their patterns of brain activity.

The results were surprising. For a start, a relatively small area of the human brain is active in love, compared with that involved in, say, ordinary friendship. “It is fascinating to reflect”, the pair conclude, “that the face that launched a thousand ships should have done so through such a limited expanse of cortex.” The second surprise was that the brain areas active in love are different from the areas activated in other emotional states, such as fear and anger.

Parts of the brain that are love-bitten include the one responsible for gut feelings, and the ones which generate the euphoria induced by drugs such as cocaine. So the brains of people deeply in love do not look like those of people experiencing strong emotions, but instead like those of people snorting coke. Love, in other words, uses the neural mechanisms that are activated during the process of addiction. “We are literally addicted to love,” Dr Young observes. Like the prairie voles.

It seems possible, then, that animals which form strong social bonds do so because of the location of their receptors for vasopressin and oxytocin. Evolution acts on the distribution of these receptors to generate social or non-social versions of a vole. The more receptors located in regions associated with reward, the more rewarding social interactions become.

Social groups, and society itself, rely ultimately on these receptors. But for evolution to be able to act, there must be individual variation between mice, and between men. And this has interesting implications.

Last year, Steven Phelps, who works at Emory with Dr Young, found great diversity in the distribution of vasopressin receptors between individual prairie voles. He suggests that this variation contributes to individual differences in social behaviour—in other words, some voles will be more faithful than others.

Meanwhile, Dr Young says that he and his colleagues have found a lot of variation in the vasopressin-receptor gene in humans. “We may be able to do things like look at their gene sequence, look at their promoter sequence, to genotype people and correlate that with their fidelity,” he muses.

It has already proved possible to tinker with this genetic inheritance, with startling results. Scientists can increase the expression of the relevant receptors in prairie voles, and thus strengthen the animals' ability to attach to partners. And in 1999, Dr. Young led a team that took the prairie-vole receptor gene and inserted it into an ordinary (and therefore promiscuous) mouse. The transgenic mouse thus created was much more sociable to its mate.

Scanning the brains of people in love is also helping to refine science's grasp of love's various forms. Helen Fisher, a researcher at Rutgers University, and the author of a new book on love, suggests it comes in three flavours: lust, romantic love and long-term attachment.

There is some overlap but, in essence, these are separate phenomena, with their own emotional and motivational systems, and accompanying chemicals. These systems have evolved to enable, respectively, mating, pair-bonding and parenting.

Lust, of course, involves a craving for sex. Jim Pfaus, a psychologist at Concordia University, in Montreal, says the aftermath of lustful sex is similar to the state induced by taking opiates. A heady mix of chemical changes occurs, including increases in the levels of serotonin, oxytocin, vasopressin and endogenous opioids (the body's natural equivalent of heroin).

“This may serve many functions, to relax the body, induce pleasure and satiety, and perhaps induce bonding to the very features that one has just experienced all this with”, says Dr. Pfaus.

Then there is attraction, or the state of being in love (what is sometimes known as romantic or obsessive love). This is a refinement of mere lust that allows people to home in on a particular mate. This state is characterised by feelings of exhilaration, and intrusive, obsessive thoughts about the object of one's affection.

Some researchers suggest this mental state might share neurochemical characteristics with the manic phase of manic depression. Dr. Fisher's work, however, suggests that the actual behavioural patterns of those in love—such as attempting to evoke reciprocal responses in one's loved one—resemble obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD).

That raises the question of whether it is possible to “treat” this romantic state clinically, as can be done with OCD. The parents of any love-besotted teenager might want to know the answer to that. Dr. Fisher suggests it might, indeed, be possible to inhibit feelings of romantic love, but only at its early stages. OCD is characterised by low levels of a chemical called serotonin.

Drugs such as Prozac work by keeping serotonin hanging around in the brain for longer than normal, so they might stave off romantic feelings. (This also means that people taking anti-depressants may be jeopardising their ability to fall in love.) But once romantic love begins in earnest, it is one of the strongest drives on Earth. Dr. Fisher says it seems to be more powerful than hunger. A little serotonin would be unlikely to stifle it.

Wonderful though it is, romantic love is unstable—not a good basis for child-rearing. But the final stage of love, long-term attachment, allows parents to co-operate in raising children. This state, says Dr. Fisher, is characterised by feelings of calm, security, social comfort and emotional union.

Because they are independent, these three systems can work simultaneously—with dangerous results. As Dr. Fisher explains, “you can feel deep attachment for a long-term spouse, while you feel romantic love for someone else, while you feel the sex drive in situations unrelated to either partner.”

This independence means it is possible to love more than one person at a time, a situation that leads to jealousy, adultery and divorce—though also to the possibilities of promiscuity and polygamy, with the likelihood of extra children, and thus a bigger stake in the genetic future, that those behaviours bring. As Dr. Fisher observes, “We were not built to be happy but to reproduce.”

The stages of love vary somewhat between the sexes. Lust, for example, is aroused more easily in men by visual stimuli than is the case for women. This is probably why visual pornography is more popular with men. And although both men and women express romantic love with the same intensity, and are attracted to partners who are dependable, kind, healthy, smart and educated, there are some notable differences in their choices.

Men are more attracted to youth and beauty, while women are more attracted to money, education and position. When an older, ugly man is seen walking down the road arm-in-arm with a young and beautiful woman, most people assume the man is rich or powerful.

Of course, love is about more than just genes. Cultural and social factors, and learning, play big roles. Who and how a person has loved in the past are important determinants of his (or her) capacity to fall in love at any given moment in the future. This is because animals—people included—learn from their sexual and social experiences. Arousal comes naturally.

But long-term success in mating requires a change from being naive about this state to knowing the precise factors that lead from arousal to the rewards of sex, love and attachment. For some humans, this may involve flowers, chocolate and sweet words. But these things are learnt.

If humans become conditioned by their experiences, this may be the reason why some people tend to date the same “type” of partner over and over again. Researchers think humans develop a “love map” as they grow up—a blueprint that contains the many things that they have learnt are attractive.

This inner scorecard is something that people use to rate the suitability of mates. Yet the idea that humans are actually born with a particular type of “soul mate” wired into their desires is wrong. Research on the choices of partner made by identical twins suggests that the development of love maps takes time, and has a strong random component.

Work on rats is leading researchers such as Dr. Pfaus to wonder whether the template of features found attractive by an individual is formed during a critical period of sexual-behaviour development. He says that even in animals that are not supposed to pair-bond, such as rats, these features may get fixed with the experience of sexual reward. Rats can be conditioned to prefer particular types of partner—for example by pairing sexual reward with some kind of cue, such as lemon-scented members of the opposite sex.

This work may help the understanding of unusual sexual preferences. Human fetishes, for example, develop early, and are almost impossible to change. The fetishist connects objects such as feet, shoes, stuffed toys and even balloons, that have a visual association with childhood sexual experiences, to sexual gratification.

So love, in all its glory, is just, it seems, a chemical state with genetic roots and environmental influences. But all this work leads to other questions. If scientists can make a more sociable mouse, might it be possible to create a more sociable human? And what about a more loving one? A few people even think that “paradise-engineering”, dedicated to abolishing the “biological substrates of human suffering”, is rather a good idea.

Progress in predicting the outcome of relationships, and information about the genetic roots of fidelity, might also make proposing marriage more like a job application—with associated medical, genetic and psychological checks. If it were reliable enough, would insurers cover you for divorce?

And as brain scanners become cheaper and more widely available, they might go from being research tools to something that anyone could use to find out how well they were loved. Will the future bring answers to questions such as: Does your partner really love you? Is your husband lusting after the au pair?

And then there are drugs. Despite Dr. Fisher's reservations, might they also help people to fall in love, or perhaps fix broken relationships? Probably not. Dr. Pfaus says that drugs may enhance portions of the “love experience” but fall short of doing the whole job because of their specificity.

And if a couple fall out of love, drugs are unlikely to help either. Dr. Fisher does not believe that the brain could overlook distaste for someone—even if a couple in trouble could inject themselves with huge amounts of dopamine.

However, she does think that administering serotonin can help someone get over a bad love affair faster. She also suggests it is possible to trick the brain into feeling romantic love in a long-term relationship by doing novel things with your partner.

Any arousing activity drives up the level of dopamine and can therefore trigger feelings of romance as a side effect. This is why holidays can rekindle passion. Romantics, of course, have always known that love is a special sort of chemistry. Scientists are now beginning to show how true this is.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

she whispered something in his ear and he shouted "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I'M *SORE* HERE WOMAN!" This was in a very quiet pub in a tiny village in Ireland, and everyone stared.

Man, I wish I'd been in that pub. I would have sprayed beer everywhere, in a comedy fashion.

I know a man who is seeing a shrink about his sex addiction. It's not so much that he absolutely has to shag all the time, but that he is incapable of forming proper relationships with women because he either wants to fuck them, in which case he spends all his time figuring out how to do that, or he doesn't, in which case he wants to have nothing to do with them. He doesn't know I know about it, and it definitely affects my opinion of him.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

That article was so cute, about the prairie voles, and then...

Men are more attracted to youth and beauty, while women are more attracted to money, education and position. !!!!!!

Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, it's true, on the whole. Good for women. At least money, education and position are partially within one's control, unlike youth and beauty. Hurrah for women and their meritocratic mating patterns.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it true? It doesn't fit with any of my experience of women, but I suppose I don't know *that* many. Maybe this is a question for Calum...

Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, undoubtedly.

Rememeber Cathy, that you are

a) quite young and
b) indie.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

: (

Cathy (Cathy), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

so wait, if i give a man oxycotin he'll fall in love with me?

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

He'll probably fall, that's for sure.

Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

there's definitely some truth to that. as one approaches 30, certain traits that would have been charming or at worst charmingly eccentric a decade ago become hanging offenses. or at least cause for immediate and permanent dismissal from the premises.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Please provide examples!

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i suppose it's not really money, education and position, exactly.. more like getting really, really fucking tired of that whole indie boy thing: oh waah look at me i'm so pathetic my shirt is too small and i'm going to take it out on you because my band/writing sucks and i refuse to work anywhere besides kim's which means if you wanna come over you have to go to bushwick.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 9 August 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

If any woman ever found that attractive I would disown her. Not that I see women as possessions.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

you just see them as your children!

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

girls do strange things in those university/post-university years, alba. what can i say?

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry.

RJG (RJG), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, I mean "sorry".

RJG (RJG), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

lauren OTM

tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

do these "indie boys" actually exist? i must move in the wrong circles.

purple patch (electricsound), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

the only person i'm apologizing to is myself.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 9 August 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think you should accept your apology.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I am not indie. : (

Cathy (Cathy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i second lauren OTM. did you read the bust article on wimpsters? a little heavy on the bitters, but definitely had some points.

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 07:23 (twenty-one years ago)

as one approaches 30, certain traits that would have been charming or at worst charmingly eccentric a decade ago become hanging offenses. or at least cause for immediate and permanent dismissal from the premises.

This is just as true if you're male, I think. Well, ok, it's true for me anyway.

Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 07:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"Why does she have to go out with him when she could go out with me" indie misogyny is the worst, I think.

Having said that perhaps the torturing women in a dungeon kind is actually the worst.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

roll a 20 sided die for dexterity.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:43 (twenty-one years ago)

disclipline = discipline

butishouldbegettingafreepermanentpassontyposbynow (Vic), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Torturing women in a dungeon is somewhat less socially acceptable though.

Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:44 (twenty-one years ago)

from that ladder theory site -


On Cuddle Bitches

Cuddle Bitches
cuddle bitch(n) - a guy who never gets to sleep with a girl but gets to have intimate moments with her like cuddling, spooning, or otherwise being affectionate. Usually this will occur in private. She probably considers him a really sweet guy, which is the kiss of death.

First off, cuddle bitches are bad, bad things to be. Maybe the worst thing to be. I mean, being an Intellectual Whore is bad, but being an Intellectual Whore who has to endure blue-balls is bordering on criminal.

Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Vic, you weren't who I was thinking of.

I think I also made it clear that this one male was getting more variety than his partners were, so to speak. I only go out with one guy at a time. And yes, I think he had some kind of acceptance neurosis tied up in the sex pursuit, definitely, an insecurity none of the women in question shared. It was sad because he was nice when he wasn't trying to prove how in demand he was.

What was really funny is that the reason none of the girls really worried about the others is that he wasn't worth fighting over.

suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I would like to make it clear that I do not hate suzy or women generally. I do hate Richard Herring though.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

You have to remember that men are judged differently than women when it comes to the number-of-partners thang, and that created a huge insecure vaccuum that a number of inadequate men, starting in their teens, unsuccessfully try to fulfill during the brunt of their adult lives. " yeah I never got any in high school - oh if the guys could only see how i've reached the double digits now" sort of thing. Or maybe I'm entirely wrong.

Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:01 (twenty-one years ago)

And you just picked the WRONG indie-famous-comedians, I dunno

Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Confused by contemporary dating mores? Always seem to end up with a B-list misogynist stand-up trying to get his own back on womankind? Join Vic's indie-famous comedians matchmaking service and say hello to a whole world of moderately-famous-but-really-quite-nice-underneath guys.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Free membership benefits include a 30-day cancellation policy, in which your indie-famous-comedian-that-didn't-work-out will promptly be placed in a cold local dungeon for you to torture at will. Offer ends soon.

Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I only went out with one! But various friends who sampled the field report that this sort of sexual self-aggrandisement is sadly all too common with his brethren. Also these creative guys don't actually come into their own until they're early 20s so all they have to go on is years of being ignored by the Darias and Janes of their world, who naturally veer toward creative guys. Then they get a deal or a contract on their first try, and girls notice them because they're out getting noticed (and vice-versa). Essentially you're dealing with a lot of people whose talents have been pupating in bedsits, alone, who are unused to socialising and suddenly they feel successful at it for the first time. Bigheads are common; a defensive attitude is easy to take as a result. It's still wrong.

I don't really do double standards as far as personal behaviour goes.

suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

That sounds true to me, despite having no actual first-hand to go on.

ENRQ (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Erm, the main paragraph, kids, not the bit about suzy's single-standards.

ENRQ (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm aware that sexism is a two-way street, and that often a promiscuous man is doing homosocial performance art for his buddies. But deep down his extreme need for validation is no different from that of a promiscuous woman in the same circles.

suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:38 (twenty-one years ago)

a few darwinianish "scientists" and the King in The King and I would disagree with you there!! but I think that's oftentimes tru.

Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread was prompted by my learning that Russel Brand has been treated for sex addiction, btw. I think this may have coloured my judgement.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Essentially you're dealing with a lot of people whose talents have been pupating in bedsits, alone, who are unused to socialising and suddenly they feel successful at it for the first time.

oh, god. a loaded sex gun, basically.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

See? The Jane Lanes of ILX concur.

suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet Russel Brand walks up to women and tells them he's a loaded sex gun.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Russell Brand is Gene Simmons?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know. But it's very important to spell his name with one 'l'.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Understood Mr. Dast0r.

Ned Raget (Ned), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is funny. LIKE A FOX.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

THIS IS AN ADDICTION I DEALT WITH

Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

"DEALT WITH"


*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*FAP*

Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Here comes phase two of this thread.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha!

PHASE 1: "Here is my witty bon mot about sex addiction bookended by unsurprising misogyny towards Suzy. Cheerio!"

PHASE 2: "WUNCE I PUT MY NUTZAKC IN A BLLENDUR OMG!!!!!1!!111!! (fagtog)"

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I AM NOT A MISOGYNIST.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I LIKE MISO SOUP

Red Panda Sanskrit (ex machina), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't say you were, (Jessica) Alba! I was more talking about the person going after Suzy and intentionally misusing the buzzword of the thread.

DOES NO ONE UNDERSTAND MY COMEDIC GENIUS? *cuts off ear* (ow)

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I AM NOT A SEX ADDICT

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

So we've got VangoghDan Perry now.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I AM NOT A SEX ADDICT

A LIKELY STORY

Gwen Stefani (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(See, because Alba was indirectly quoting K's Choice, so I quoted No Doubt back at him... oh fuck it *removes other ear*) (ow ow)

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Superstar DJs have the best life, and get to try out being sex addicts too.

bah. the worst. here, we move from sex gun to sex pest. get away, please.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Curses. Ronan is fired as my personal manager with immediate effect.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

nah. i wouldn't be too hasty.. one good (?) thing about these scenarios is that there will always be a never-ending stream of girls in their early 20s what don't know any better. go to town!

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

But they will grow older and come to look on back on me with contempt. I cannot stand the thought of this.

DJ Cassandra

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I want to be DJ Loaded Sexcannon

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.allenphotos.com/vanity.gif

Hey, we're corn-fed Minnesota honeys Vanity 6 and we say: I'm a sex shooter, shooting love in your direction...

suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

On no! CONFLATING VANITY 6 AND APPOLONIA 6! Oh NO!!!

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

OH NO! TOO MUCH TIME AWAY FROM THE HOMELAND!

(It's Apollonia, by the way...)

suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I realized that right after I hit Submit, but I don't have any more ears to sacrifice to the thread.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"Loaded Sex Gun (I'm a...)" in stores now.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, I've never really thought about sex addicts. I guess, I could muster a little sympathy for them.

jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, that indie comedian thing seems common among aspiring indie rockers and artsters i know. a gf of mine suggests it's because these nerds finally have the confidence they never had at the age when going thru a frat-boy stage was a bit more forgiveable. so now they're in their early-mid-late 30's seeing that their wit and sensitivity could get them laid and seek to fuck someone new every week. something of a sex addiction. filling up some hole. winning some competition. especially since these particular guys i'm thinking of have something of a juvenile fame obsession too (do they just want groupies?). but most ladies i know in their early 30's aren't exactly keen on it. the fact that you can get someone hot into bed just isn't that novel or interesting. they're looking for a bit more and can end up feeling hurt/confused/disappointed/pissed about this shit. and for all the philandering these guys expect you to infinite patience for (yeah so i fucked you last nite and i'm ignoring you and shamelessly flirting with her today, what, are we married?), they get extremely jealous if you mention another guy (and god forbid he has a better record deal or is getting more press). which is what suggests this isn't good-natured fooling around or grown-up casual/poly sex. human beings in getting irrationally attached to people they just fucked shockah!

so yeah, it's hard to feel sorry for a person who's problem is directed outward and mostly hurts other people. as opposed to someone who takes everything out on themselves. you can think at least i'm not him, at least i try to be sensitive to others and pursue healthy relationships and he obviously has issues and blablabla. but when you see someone getting action all the time while you are decidedly not it short-circuits some self-worth thing. which i guess is why they do it.

ok, sorry, was that too serious? perhaps this topic just cut a bit close this summer...

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

No, that was good.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

why has all disccusion of sex addicts on this thread been focused around str8s?

blah, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Sadly, I was listening to "nasty Girl" when I came across this thread.

Dan, did ya ever read that scary story 'bout how Vanity walked offa 'Purple Rain' and castings were held to find a 'Vanity lookalike'? Apparently Aollonia auditioned, Prince vanished with her for a couple of days and she came back with the job.

True or myth, I can deal with that but now this REALLY depresses me, http://www.denisematthews.com/

H (Heruy), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)


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