acting "against type"

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do you ever make a conscious effort to act in a way which is contrary to yr personality or spend some time expressing views which are the opposite of what you actually think? Can this ever be fun? Can it ever be dangerous? Is it a foolhardy exercise which nobody in their right mind should ever attempt?

MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

If I knew what the hell my type was in the first place I suppose I could answer the question. (I'm not being facetious either!)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

no that's a fair comment, Ned.

MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Expressing views that are the opposite to what I actually think? Nah, I wouldn't do that, it's really quite an annoying thing to do to people. I guess some people who like arguing would do this, but my type isn't one for arguing.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I do it quite a lot. Whenever I think someone's trying to show me how they've got me all figured out or something. It's sort of a bratty thing to do. The way I do it at least.

Huck, Monday, 23 August 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If I'm around a large group of people I don't know very well, I can certainly moderate my opinion; for example, if they were all talking about how great U2 are, I might temporarily change my opinion from "U2 can eat shit and die" to "I suppose some of their early songs are alright" for the sake of not causing a row. I'd never say the opposite of what I think, though.

Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i have certainly made an effort to be less moody and judgemental about people of late. I just wonder if i can ever become less of these things or just ACT less of these things? is your behaviour pretty much set on stone after a certain age?

jed_ (jed), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I spent 90% of my time trying not to be Barry, if that's what you mean. :(

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

But you are Barry! Barry was not made to describe a part of your character. What kind of a crazy name would that be?

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

If I knew how to act against type successfully I'd be doing so right now. But I'm too inept. :(

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I do tend to think that to try this kind of thing on anything other than a temporary basis (which is actually what I think Mark was asking about) is a fool's mission.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it can be a useful way to have a look at things you would normally discount or disagree with. Trying on a completely different skin can open you up or expose you to lots of different perspectives and can in fact, help change sometimes unchallenged, ingrained viewpoints. I've tried this as an exercise in certain situations and been amazed at the results.

Penelope_111 (Penelope_111), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

It does work for some kinds of qualities. Acting gregarious, when one usually struggles to do so, becomes a virtuous circle - people warm to you and things start flowing.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

N, I see Barry as the ranting, apoplectic, Mr Abusing part of me. I wonder if that makes me a bit unhigned.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I think it's not a good idea to split your identity into two.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, I only did undergraduate level psychology, so I wouldn't like to say for sure.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I sometimes ascribe myself to notions of fluidity/multiplicity in terms of personality development/the self. So, maybe it's quite hard to act out of character or against type. I obviously need to read more about these theories.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

If I knew what the hell my type was in the first place I suppose I could answer the question. (I'm not being facetious either!)
-- Ned Raggett (ne...), August 23rd, 2004.

OTM

latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't people tell you, Ned? Or at least, provide the dots for you to join together?

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought this thread was gonna be about tom cruise.

my own efforts to act against type have been grotesque failures.

amateur!!st, Monday, 23 August 2004 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

- Walt Whitman, Song of Myself.

I think this is the first time my English degree has ever proved useful.

Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I suspect that no matter what I do, everyone's typecast me anyway.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't people tell you, Ned? Or at least, provide the dots for you to join together?

I've never sensed a consistent judgment, for better or worse -- in terms of personality traits, perhaps, but as some sort of defined 'type'? Not sure at all.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i think he just means, "acting in a way that is definitively not the way you would normally act." i don't think you need to conform to some preexisting "type" to partake in this.

amateur!!st, Monday, 23 August 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, that's fair, but I'm honestly not sure how I 'normally' act! Like I muttered a bit on the 'meeting new people' thread, what is normal for me can and does change, and not necessarily in a predictable fashion. I don't perceive that as being any different or acting against a core self, but simply facets or reflections of whatever that is.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, know thyself.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I know I've got long hair.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with Ned. That's kinda what I mean by multiplicity.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.flickclip.com/badbioimages/multiplicity.jpg

hast thou forgotten?

amateur!!st, Monday, 23 August 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a great film!!!

jel -- (jel), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

How could I ever forget?

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I forgot to remember to forget.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I try a bit, my hang ups are

(a) that nobody takes me seriously and (b) that some people find me too serious.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I forget to forget, nothing is important...

jel -- (jel), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Ronan, Golf Indie Kid.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Tonight, the bottle let me down.

sexyDancer, Monday, 23 August 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Alba at least I have "golf" before the "indie kid" part.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Golf is nothing to proud of.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

my golf sweater has got mad compliments in the last week at work.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm glad you pulled it off.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Blatant horndoggery.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Can some kind of image be developed for use as a horndoggery caution?

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

There needs to be a Road Trip style film made about the adventures of Ronan and Alba.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd star in it if it got me girls/money/records.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Ronan: Golf Gansta is fooling no one.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 23 August 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

my favorite comedy duo!

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 23 August 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Ronan:Golf Failure.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 August 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Alba can be the caddie!

We have a strong plot here.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 23 August 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

To baulk at the idea of 'type' just shows that you're an individualistic type rather than a collective type (NB: individualism is also a collectively-held meme; witness those streets in which everyone has a slightly different door with a slightly different knocker, but they're all different in the same way). I'm a great believer in types -- phenotypes and genotypes in science, stereotypes and archetypes in art -- but it's something I've been criticized for here... ironically by the very people who went on to stereotype me, in their language, as a 'troll'. I suppose their philosophy is 'Other people can be categorised into types, but I can't, thank heavens.'

Anyway, if resistance to the idea of 'type' is a stumbling block to people answering this interesting question, I'd suggest 'habit' instead. Have you ever acted against habit? You'll know when you're doing it, because it grates, irritates, tickles or hurts.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:24 (twenty-one years ago)

(BTW FYI I am not a troll type, but an 'angry pierrot type'.)

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm a million different people, from one day to the next. I can change."

Thats me. I tend to morph to blend in quietly with those I'm around. I dont much care for asserting a type or personality over others. In a taoist sense, in any case; thats not to say I am a pushover or just act like everyone else to please them. I just honestly find I can bring out all these different bits of me to suit the situation. Demure and quiet, loud and rude, smart, stupid, funny, thoughtful - its all me, I'm never putting on an act.

I *am* often putting on masks though. But thats a whole 'nother story.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

(FWIW Momus I wouldn't say people "stereotype" you as a troll - just acknowledge that you do use such methods to stir debate. Which is a good thing in its way.)

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 05:01 (twenty-one years ago)

This 'Don't box me in, don't pin me down' thing is such a cliche. I hate it when bands say 'Our music can't really be categorised'. It's almost as bad -- and as self-deluded -- as saying 'We just do it for ourselves, and if anyone else likes it it's a bonus'. The point about categorisation is that it can be done, it will be done, it is done. The important questions are the epistemological ones: 'By whom?' and 'To whom?', and 'Who gets to name the categories I'm in?', and 'Do I have a right of reply?' and 'Is my category stigmatised?' and 'If so, can I work on changing that?' To opt out of categories and types altogether is to opt out of the political obligation to do this work, and also to opt out of seeing difference on anything but an individual level.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah it's true that nearly everyone doesn't want to be viewed as a stereotype and yet they stereotype others almost constantly, consciously or subconsciously. It's just a result of the way the brain works.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 05:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Japanese people often categorise others by blood type. They associate different traits with each type.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 05:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I exist mainly for myself, and if anyone else likes me, that's a bonus.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)

We'll mark you down as an introverted convergent middle class Pisces, blood group AB, generic individualist, then. Report to barracks at 2pm, please.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I exist beyond categories really, but since you have categorised me, can I join a club?

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:23 (twenty-one years ago)

what, our cluster isn't good enough for ya anymore?

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Carlin on ILX explained (bonus points if you can recognise the source from which I adapted the following):

Unlike most ordinary ILxors, Carlin was wise and he educated those willing to open their minds to the possibility and scope that come with the freedom to think what you like, and feel what you genuinely feel without shame or embarrassment, by actually embracing that emotion or thought, and celebrating it by sharing it over the internet.

Most of Carlin's more controversial threads provoked a lot of people into posting to express their somewhat prejudiced opinions, and this created the entertainment. Carlin was simply offering alternative proposals - to both contemporary morals and things that we are supposed to think and believe because that is what everybody else thinks and believes - and basicallly told us that when we look at something from a different angle it can make more sense, and at the same time still be considered wrong. His ILx posts promoted individuality at its highest level - the freedom and the intelligence to think and believe something you wish to choose based on quantifiable evidence to support that point of view; not believing something on the sole basis of just being told it, or because it is written down as fact.

Those of ILx who did get it would eagerly await Carlin's next proposition and open their minds to the possibilities, occasionally posting just to have an argument or a laugh. Those who didn't get it (mainly Americans) would be waiting for his next thread just so that they could complain to the moderators, but by doing so would inadvertently supply merciless fun for all the other readers and posters. Those who read long and attentively enough became hooked, and could also recognise other addicts. Carlin educated us, stimulated our interest, challenged us, made us laugh and cry, provoked our anger, and provided substantial entertainment at the expense of fevered egos. What was important was that we were getting everything out of Carlin's writing on a regular basis. It was that extra fuel for our life's blood.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:31 (twenty-one years ago)

narcissistic sociopathic martyr

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

blood type O-

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I would assume from Momus' second link that I am Type B blood, but I don't know whether that is the case or not. Certainly I think the character fit seems more appropriate.

Acting "against type" or "out of character" is something I'm a very strong advocate of. While I do agree with Momus that categorisation is done and always will be done and can indeed be very useful, I also think that many people deny themselves opportunities and experiences, and at a more extreme level cause themselves and those around them emotional pain/stress, simply because they too freely deny themselves certain actions and options because of who they think they are. Especially during my second and third year at university, and occasionally since thn, although less ravenously and recklessly, I acted very deliberately against type and out of character on many, many occasions. Sometimes it wasn't conscious - I was drinking a lot and under considerable emotional stress a lot of the time, which I think impaired my judgement - but most of the time I was aware of what I was doing, and was taking conscious steps to try things I would not have imagined myself doing at previous stages in my life, trying to stretch who I was in order to find out what would make me happy (more details are in this thread - http://ilx.p3r.net/thread.php?msgid=3245776 ).

I believe that most people are capable of doing most things if they simply allow themselves, whether that is doing a piece of deadlined work early instead of leaving it to the last minute, or skydiving, or commiting adultery, or riding a motorbike, or talking openly with a new acquaintance, or eating spinach or anything; if you go at it with the point of view not that you are, say, N1ck S0uth@ll who has never been on a plane and thus must be scared of flying, but rather that you are just a person and other people can do this and thus so can you.

Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Trackback ping, please!

Nihilism: C/D

Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 06:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Acting out of character again, Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (or whatever you're calling yourself this week)? That's bloody typical of you, that is.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 07:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly! Every so often one has to do something saturatingly predictable and in character in order to make the out of character exercises worthwhile!

Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 07:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with Momus about the bands saying "we don't want to be pigeonholed etc etc etc", it's infuriating. I can't stand that "eh whatever" attitude to what's basically marketing, the band should be taking as much of an active interest and making as much effort to control their image and their impact as they can.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Bearing in mind that the "eh whatever" attitude is itself a marketing tool.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 08:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess so, but it doesn't work as well in most cases as a more hands on approach does it? I'm thinking of all the middling to poor selling bands who cling to it so much.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 09:08 (twenty-one years ago)

if they were all talking about how great U2 are, I might temporarily change my opinion from "U2 can eat shit and die" to "I suppose some of their early songs are alright" for the sake of not causing a row.

I end up doing this kind of shit ALL THE TIME, cuz I'm such a music snob:
"Oh, your favorite band is Staind? You're gonna name your first son Aaron Lewis? Uh, yeah they're pretty good!"
It's like that Michael Bolton scene in Office Space. 99% of the time I'm not in a negative enough mood to tell people that I think everything they like is shit anyway.

AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Anime villains are likely to be type AB

Fantastic! Where do I sign up?

Liz :x (Liz :x), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

acting out of character - classic or dud!

I knew we'd done this before. What are the odds on me saying the same thning twice?

Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 10:48 (twenty-one years ago)


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