The obligatory lesbian scene

re: the question...because most men enjoy lesbian sex scenes, but for most of them it's just a minor kink, not something they wanna see an entire movie of?

I only enjoy watching exclusively lesbian movies anyway (too much information, I know); the lesbian scenes in straight porn are almost always pretty dire (gangbusters is right!)

(Dan, that's a much more interesting topic; let's run with it.)

uh, what?

Cameron Diaz, Lucy Liu, Calista Flockhart, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Neve Campbell, Meg Ryan, Nicole Kidman, Mena Suvari, Drew Barrymore, Liv Tyler, Winona Ryder, Brittany Murphy, Selma Blair, Kate Hudson, Chrsitina Ricci, Jennifer Aniston, Rebecca Romijn Stamos, Angelina Jolie, the list goes on and on...it's quite stunning when you think about it.

I'm not against it, for obvious reasons, but I am quite aware that in most of the cases it's pandering on a very clear level...you get to perv on hawt girl-on-girl action and fancy yourself a Gay Rights Activist at the same time (wonder how much of "The L Word"'s core viewership are straight males?)

Stating the obvious, I don't think you could come up with a similairly long list of homosexual actors who've played gay roles.

anyway, more broadly, I'm inclined to think the 'lesbian thing' in porn, while seeminly harmless, is based on a rather nasty set of problems. I hate to quote Bill Maher -- "[men] agree with both of them" -- but I think he's more or less otm.

theory: porn-lesbianism is a way of creating women who think and fuck not like real actual lesbians but like men... there's no possibility for male EMPATHY (secret currency of porn) with the women bcz all they want to do is FUCK MEN (ew gay ew!) so, w lesbo pR0n, male viewer is allowed to think: "impossibly remote and unlike-any-woman-I-know overdone and enhanced blonde, on this we can FINALLY UNDERSTAND each other: we both want to fuck the overdone and enhanced brunette"

-- g--ff c-nn-n (misterhungr...), September 7th, 2003 11:32 AM.

from here:

Why do men fetishize lesbians?

Male sexuality MUST be more complex than "Two breasts good/FOUR BREASTS AWESOME" otherwise I'm going to go drown myself.

(xpost: Who started namecalling threads, you massive self-important tool?)

(how long have you been building up this resentment? What did I do to piss you off *before* that thread? Cos it seems to have exploded from nowhere. Evidently I'm a bad judge of who my friends are)

OK, OK, I'm going.

And for the record, saying "What kind of sick fuck starts a thread like this?" is not really a great way of:

a) showing that you like or respect someone
b) showing that you're worried about someone
c) making the person you're talking about think you're really interested in anything but unprovoked character assassination

Sorry, Dan.

I didn't have any resentment towards you which factored very heavily into the massively negative reaction I had to the moderator board thread.

All of my previous ILX joking aside, it is seriously depressing to think that male sexuality is that easy to figure out. Only I don't know why I care. (Actually I do know why but it's really sad and stupid so I'm pretending I don't.)

(xpost: Ha, I like the implication that gay scenes between guys with tiny penises would be okay.)

With all lesbian movies it's a different sort of thing: I mean, it's a common argument from ppl who watch that sort of stuff that the male body is *simply a turn-off*. I share that view, too. I guess on some level it has to have to do with a certain amount of sexual insecurity, a certain level of prudishness even? Plus the fact that male porn stars are almost always portrayed as macho jerks doesn't exactly help, in my experience.

Mind you, as always with this stuff there's a gigantic level of variety and it's unfair to dump it all in the same category. I mean, I've seen some lesbian porn that was just hateful, stupid shit, and some that (as far as this is possible in the medium) were actually quite inoffensive (as far as that is possible in this medium); I mean, of course I rationalize this stuff, otherwise I'd be wallowing in self-loathing, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that, at its best, the male infatuation with lesbianism can contribute to helping them understand feminine sensibilities, as opposed to trying to transform them into male ones.

Hahaha, of course this is all from a total het viewpoint, but then that's what the great majority of this stuff seems to be geared towards.

tons and tons of xposts

(obviously identical twin porn would be the exception that proves the rule)

This may be somewhat obvious, but there's a kind of virgin/whore thing going on with male attraction to lesbian sex - we get to see them all naked and sexin' it up, but no penetration (at least in softcore porn/mainstream films) and no semen makes it somewhat "clean"/virginal/innocent. We get to see a sexual side of the women without them being "sluts."

Yup, this OTM also. Mind you, when most of the rest of the porn one is exposed to is "ANAL SLUTS LUV IT WHORES GIANT COCK CUNT CUM HOORAY!" type stuff, it feels like a kind of healthy reaction, almost.

(answer: oh, just about a century or two, probably.)

And what about one female equivalent of the genre, which might be the women who write and read slash, which focuses on gay male sex/relationships?

(I fully acknowledge that looking at porn to find representation of a "respectful" sexual relationship is not necessarily going into a situation with realistic expectations.)

Also, while I do take on board the "virgin/whore" argument as valid, a large part of me is scoffing at some of the multiple girl pile scenes I've seen and reconciling those scenes with that argument.

(xpost Dan, that day is now; most of the viewers of "Queer As Folk" I know are straight women.)

I don't think you or anyone else here really know what my viewpoints on the matter are, so kindly do not make assumptions. However, I don't think any absolute statement (such as the one you made, ie they just *are*) accurately describes every person who engages in homo or bisexual acts.

I don't know if there are many women that I have personally known who have not engaged in at least one 'bisexual' act - no matter what orientation they profess now.

those who felt the need to put me in my place.

Haha, dude, I wasn't trying to put you in your place (in fact, I don't think I even know my place! HAW!); I just thought your comment was kinda odd and decided to enagage in some spirited debating. Or maybe the weed's fucking with my short term memory, and I really was being an awful, awful asshole - it happens sometimes. In any case, peace d00d. *hugglez*

hstencil, can the same statement be applied to your male acquaintances? I mean, I live in a severely homophobic place, so that kinda situation is very alien to me. Have heard stuff from my scandinavian friend, tho.

Yeah! Because lesbians aren't gay.

Oh I wasn't referring to you. Don't worry bout it.

I think Andrew's otm -- sexy is sexy, and sexy stuff provokes sexual responses. Straight guys can admit to getting off on two women without threatening their own sexual identity. We could also get off on two men, but we mostly won't let ourselves. Also, I think whoever said straight guys would be shocked by real lesbian sex is 100 percent wrong; I think plenty of straight guys would totally dig real lesbian sex. Go film some and put it up online and see how you do.

"Wide areas of Tokyo now sit below sea level, protected by aging dikes."

Frank Miller to thread

File under 'Threads that have not aged well'

Why does most otherwise heterosexual pr0n contain at least one scene

One can only imagine the extensive research behind this observation.

I initially interpreted the thread title as being a complaint about some kind of club or party scene.

Ah yes the burgeoning scene of obligatory lesbians

I also read it that way. Like "man, I got to quit this scene"

In every town, there's an obligatory lesbian scene.