Do protests really make any difference?

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Honestly. Have any political protests ever changed anything (apart from making protesters feel like they've done something)?

Weigh in.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

vietnam, dude

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

This question is not meant to sound apathetic -- though it sort've reads that way. It's a legitimate question.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not saying direct, but, like, you know, eroding the other guy's will to power

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

[joke photo of will to power here]

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

They've made a big mess and jobs for men who pick up burnt banners, puppets, and flags.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Tianamen Square was a bust.

― andy, Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

vietnam, dude

So after roughly ten years of protests we finally got out. Not very efficient.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i've totally been thinking about this lately and i think no, except for me because i got arrested

― JaXoN (JasonD), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

http://pr.indymedia.org/images/protesto_1.jpg

― andy, Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

i think you're not giving enough credit to "how the protesters feel" in that equation. plus, don't be so romanitc. it's not gonna be storming the bastille every time! thank god.

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

hey it was better than sitting on their asses and watching laugh-in

maybe

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

If a massive crowd has torches and pitchforks in hand, they may get some concession. I can't think of any real-life example - except wasn't Jesus executed at night or early morning to keep the crowd from tearing the place apart? So, the protest worked .. a little.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

If their real utility is to show the world at large that people care about an issue and to strngthen and empower those people who care about an issue, fine. But will they change any issues in the short term? Mostly not.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

well, boo hoo!! that's politix, one part theater to a thousand parts boring clerical work.

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

The poll tax riots of the late 80s apparently worked; although it's hard to tell if the tax was dropped in response specifically to the riots, or to its extreme unpopularity.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

well riots are a pretty good barometer for unpopularity i guess

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean shit, if you don't wanna go, then don't go. if you think the people who do are shrill or self-involved or smelly, then say so, fine. but if u say "their effect is only very slight & takes so long & nowhere near as powerful as it should be," and then you do nothing, then you've kinda proved yr criticism true, right?

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

They need better catering.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

and then you do nothing,

You can still vote....which strikes me as being more effective than protesting.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.staticfiends.com/Martin_Luther_King_jr/Martin-Luther-King-Jr-10.jpg

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Why are they always so negative?

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

It might help undecided voters which group they do/don't want to be associated with. It's all just a popularity contest, you know.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm with Alex on this thread

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, the Civil Rights movement and the Quit India movement were very successful folks.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

and Alex is clearly referring to a limited place, time, and content with 'protests', right?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I would bet that 85% of next week's protesters would be "acceptable" for Middle America. However, the media will only focus on the one guy in a thong, burning holes into a flag with a crack pipe.

So don't hate on the protesters. Hate on the media coverage.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

The jury is still out on the American Revolution.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Not for Native Americans.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 26 August 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

and Alex is clearly referring to a limited place, time, and content with 'protests', right?

Well, I'm referring to protests of the sort being planned/bickered-about/fought-over here in NYC in preparation for the RNC.

Personally speaking, I'd love to see Bush voted out of office (actually,I'd love see him literally, physically ejected from office with lots of unnecessary roughness), but I wasn't entirely happy with the notion of my beloved Central Park having to pay the price for it. What the hell's wrong with the West Side Highway? I suppose the theory is that the protest has to be near the convention or in a prominent place to be "effective" (as if Bush doesn't see it happening outside of the convention site's window, he won't know it's happening!!!).

I'm also reminded of the protests prior to the Iraq War (which didn't change anything), which seemed more of a forum for frustrated paper-mache puppet-makers, banner-makers and drum-bangers....many of whom, I suspect, aren't even registered to vote.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I mean the Vietnam war ended in 1975, but still, think of all the babies who were conceived at protests and who were later named Dakota.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

THEY ended up buying into Starbucks when it was just a hole in the wall. And some of their money ends up going to charity. Maybe.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/l/John%20Lennon/The%20Dakota.JPG

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Profound political change only happens gradually or via revolution. Revolution has historically resulted in absolute wankers stepping in to the power vacuum which it creates, therefore I reckon the best course of action is to try and nudge things in the right direction. Protesting is a very good way of doing this; it certainly contributes to the overall political climate. Just don't expect the results to be apparent soon. Or even within your lifetime.

Whatever, it can't do any harm, and it often makes for a good day out.

― Wooden (Wooden), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

*He* won't know it's happening anyway.

I like the idea of ejection with unnecessary roughness. Bush: "Shit! *Hey*!"

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Naked protesters on Anderson Cooper a second ago. I have no idea what their point was, but they sure were naked.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, i saw that too. That sort've stuff, I believe, gives serious protests a black eye.

I thought the banner over the Plaza thing was a neater trick.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 26 August 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I was peripherally involved in protests in Philly for "R2K" (RNC 2000). When the police arrested hundreds of people, they effectively created an organization. People who weren't all that political to start with, but just doing it cuz their friends were doing it became totally politicized when thrown in jail. It boosted their sense of importance. The police people up for days so they became tight with each other. Then they made these people, many of whom were from the suburbs, have to keep coming back to Philly for hearings. A legal defense team and other spin-off organizations developed (including Radio Volta, the station I djed for). That protest made a difference not because it swayed anybody on the other side, but because it rallied the troops on this side.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Friday, 27 August 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"police locked people up for days" - I should really reread my posts before hitting submit.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Friday, 27 August 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Whatever, it can't do any harm

Well, except in extreme cases where people say "look at those idiots, I'll vote the other way to spite them".

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Friday, 27 August 2004 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, didn't anyone take civics class?

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/revolution/teaparty.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/foundingdocs/americancrisis/main.html

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Friday, 27 August 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate grid cities - but one of the things I love about New York is Central Park, and I don't want to see it reduced to mud under thousands of feet.

If protests were not effective, why would the state crack so many skulls to prevent them?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 27 August 2004 02:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I suppose the theory is that the protest has to be near the convention or in a prominent place to be "effective"

This is why I'm a little peeved at UPJ now (though I will still march), because the rally point was supposed to be like West Street and Chambers which is - DUH LESLIE CAGAN - real close to Ground Zero. Isn't that symbolic enough of the Bush administration's failures?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 27 August 2004 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, it's odd. Are protests like magnets - they have a limited effective range? I appreciate that lots of cameras will be at the conference, but surely the idea of a big protest (what will those crazies do?) will draw the cameras. And perhaps all the masked avengers will be busy trying to besiege the convention and you can cut off that section as well.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 27 August 2004 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd just as soon that the site where the World Trade Center once stood not be used as a place for protest or political posturing from anyone k thnx bye.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Cool. Don't you think it's already a political symob though, pergaps the most political in the US today?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

as soon as Dubya went there with the bullhorn, it became fair fucking game.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:16 (twenty-one years ago)

we must protest the reign of the fatties

the very act of marching rejects the sloth they claim as their birthright

we must deny them the indolence and gluttony which they wallow in

only then can this land be free

only then can this once proud nation rise up as a more physically attractive populace

― paladin, Friday, 27 August 2004 03:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Right.
East Germany. Latvia. Borneo. late-80s Cambodia. Russia. South Africa. US civil rights.

Don't rush! it'll come eventually.

― paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:27 (twenty-one years ago)

'Russia' is a bit vague. Doesn;t matter though - when was the last time Russia had a leader who wasn't a wanker?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Gorbachev?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, maybe. Sorry, my historical consciousness tands to jump straight from communism to Putin. Though maybe the ascendency of Putin makes the argument more difficult. I agree with it anyway, being a British-style socialist, I was just wondering about the idea as a whole...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex don't tell me this is a post so you can justify not going this weekend...

― 57 7th (calstars), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not going to be in town, actually, but I can't say I'd definetely go if I were in town (and I don't need to justify it to anyone).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 27 August 2004 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

in france protests (most of em) are almost institutional, and they lead to consultations b/t political figures and union figures or other types which often result in new policies or the reversing of recent policies etc. but that's because there's a something resembling a pre-drawn route from popular protest to political change (albeit a really windy and confusing one). i don't think that's true in the states at the moment.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 27 August 2004 04:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe protests were very important in the history of the Czech Republic but I'm a bit fuzzy on the details now.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Friday, 27 August 2004 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

twelve years pass...

the fate of the Inauguration Day protestors: nearly invisible in US media

http://fair.org/home/mass-arrests-of-protesters-outrageous-in-russia-barely-worth-mentioning-in-us/

― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 July 2017 09:34 (eight years ago)

one year passes...

still a classic

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgbSojwrSnaN1NSnmVGJoMlPsMDjKeejfNpVZg1-Dga54X0z81

― j., Thursday, 22 November 2018 06:52 (seven years ago)

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