Anyone like to share tips on managing a band?

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hey all,
i'm helping my friends' band get their names out there. it's the typical story of talented musicians who are too humble to promote themselves. basically, i'm just looking to groom them and build them up to the point where i can pass them on to a pro...but in the meantime i'm covering the basics (booking gigs, circulating mailing lists, sending out demos, etc...).

i have a decent background in the marketing and publicity end of the music industry but was wondering if there are any managing tips i should know.

thanks!

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

No cocaine til after the gig.

― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Make sure the lead singer doesn't swear at the sound guy. This could lose you potentially 10-15 CD sales per show.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

(I don't know why I typed that. That's an inside joke that nobody on this board is going to get.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought I got it. I must be a loser.

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

inside joke or not, it's true. until you have your own sound person, bend over backwards to kiss the sound person's ass no matter how big of an a-hole he/she is.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

also, have you babysat for more than one child at at time? if you have, try to remember as much as you can about it. i'm serious!

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG sexyDancer couldn't possibly be any more OTM

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah, definitely be nice to the sound person, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. It will definitely have an effect on your relationship with the venue and your future getting booked there.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure how it affects CD sales at the show, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't decide whether I think it'd be good to have a manager or not.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I thought, if you're rude to the sound guy, he won't make you sound good, and then less people will think you're worth taking home.

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, that could be.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's a tactic that my friend's band uses, though I've never done it with any of my bands. They played a free show (It was outside, which probably helps), didn't get paid, and over the course of the set gave out over 1000 cds for free (cd-rs slipped into those cheap white envelopes along with a card with a picture, website, and show info). They swear that it comes back to them right away in the form of show attendance, sales of the actual album, and massive website traffic. I'm sure it wouldn't work for everyone, but they're an extremely poppy band in a college town.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Tell the band to never wear their own band shirts on stage. Please.

Also, send photos in to weeklies and even evening newspapers. Sometimes their just looking for something to fill space: "The Crafties plays the Cock and Ball on Friday..." or whatever.

Demo's are a hard one. Most CD's get tossed in the trash. I don't think that was the case with cassettes in the old days.

― andy, Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Tell the band to never wear their own band shirts on stage

Actually, this works if ALL the band members wear a band shirt. :>

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Who is the band, waxyjax? Promote it here, why doncha?

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.teddyrooseveltandtheroughriders.com/presskit.htm

thanks for all the tips, by the way. the guys in the band are pretty mature--so no babysitting required (unlike past artists i've tour managed).

as for bringing your own sound guy--does that work? aren't most venues cocks about that?

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Demo's are a hard one. Most CD's get tossed in the trash. I don't think that was the case with cassettes in the old days.

Yeah, cassettes got taped over, unless those things were punched out, in which case they were trashed too.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

Yeah, I think Lauren just meant unless you're famous enough to have your own sound guy...

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

no, having your own sound guy is more about affordability, ie. if the band can afford it (which yeah, I suppose ties in to being "famous" but not always). Most venues don't give a shit whether a band brings their own sound guy or not, ime.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I've had quite the opposite experience, when I was playing in rock bands anyway.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

really? I find that they just wanna know in advance, and that's all.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

also most bands are better off having their own sound person even if they can't afford it, because most (but not all) in-house sound dudes are horrible.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

boredoms, ooioo, and rovo all bring their own soundpeople (and boards!) even though it's super expensive to do so.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

as for bringing your own sound guy--does that work? aren't most venues cocks about that?

in my experience it's a bad sign if venues that are used to professional, touring bands don't want you to let you use your own sound person.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess it depends...some places I play just have the bartender doing sound and don't care (or maybe it's the sound guy tending bar?), and some have regular people on staff and won't trust anyone else, or whatever their reason is. Anyway, doing live sound has to be a thankless job, no wonder most sound guys are dicks.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

if it's done right, it's not thankless at all. Sort of a circular effect here, though.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

has anyone had any horror stories of getting screwed by a label?

right now, teddy roosevelt and the rough riders is not signed...however, they've received interst from some big labels (i guess it'd be better if i don't name them). however, i had one A&R guy say he'd like to take them on as "ghostwriters" because he was really into their songwriting but didn't find the fact that 3 of the 4 member of the band wear glasses, and as a whole, wouldn't appeal to the pre-teen set. we're considering taking on some songwriting work to get their foot in the industry door, but i'd prefer to have them build an audience on their own...maybe sign on to an indie label and go that route....

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

hell, while i'm plugging the band...here's their bio:

Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders turns broke-ass twenty-something ennui into lyrical wit and captivating melody. Applying the syntax of rock with quirky pop sensibilities, this four-piece rock ensemble has appealed to audiences for almost five years.

The band formed in 2000 when Detroit rock scene veteran Gabe Snyder implanted himself in an East Village apartment down the hall from Emmy-winning Songwriter Mike Dillenberger. Brought together by spare time, funny anecdotes and malt liquor, the two songsmiths collaborated on their first album Bully!, a lo-fi blend of live guitars, vocal harmonies, keyboard and a rhythm section programmed by Mike himself, which they released in 2001. Later that year, bassist Anthony Ripoli joined the group, crafting low-end arrangements that both complemented and added a new dimension to their sound. They recorded and released their second album, We Come Bearing Rock, in 2003, drawing the attention of high-profile drummer Guy Licata, a faculty member of the Drummers Collective in New York City, whose former students include Sterling Campbell (David Bowie, Soul Asylum, The B-52's) and Arthur Kremer (Stellastar*). Soon after, Guy joined the band, completing the line-up that exists to this day.

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

you need a laywer, asap. do you have one? email me off-board if you need a referral. off the top of my head, i'd say that you should create another entity for songwriting.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

they could maybe sign a separate publishing deal?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

xposting like crazy. anyway there's no reason they couldn't have a publishing deal with a major and ghostwrite, and do their own thing on an indie, unless they're like stodgy about that stuff.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

major label contracts tend be extremely stodgy about that kind of thing.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, i wasn't sure if any sort "exclusivity" clauses are apart of the songwriting situation.

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

your lawyer is your friend.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah a lawyer is def. the way to go.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

one bit of advice that i've heard is to get an intellectual property ,lawyer, not an entertainment one, as entertainment guys don't tend to be too well trained at actually getting a decent, straightforward contract.

still, i'd say to have them do an indie album or two first just to build up their base.

― Lt. Kingfish Del Pickles (Kingfish), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, cassettes got taped over, unless those things were punched out, in which case they were trashed too

What, you never heard of scotch tape? Hell, wadded up pieces of paper works in a pinch as well.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

eh, there were so many, at least a couple doofuses supplied demos on nice Maxell high-bias tapes.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

How come my friends don't offer to manage my band? :(

― Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, I want a manager. How do I get one?

I really feel like I've missed out on something cause no band I've ever been in has ever had a manager. I mean, babysitter cum gig-booker, that sounds AWESOME!!!

We've had our own publicists, sound engineers (urgent *and* key, we've already got one before we've even played our first gig) but never a manager. I always thought they were useless. But now I've read this thread, I want one. Humph.

― Danger Whore (kate), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

They *are* useless. If you can do the work yourself, then do so.

Caveat: Do not write your own handouts, they either get too 'modest' or ridiculously overpraised.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:05 (twenty-one years ago)

(I once saw a Peter Gabriel official website. The amount of praise for what he had done for world music and so-on, I thought to myself "Peter had better not have written this himself, or I lose any respect I had for him" (I don't like his stuff, but whatever)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

We always used to write our own press releases! OK, they were just my mentalist ramblings, but still. Who else are you going to trust to do it?

― Danger Whore (kate), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

One I managed to halt was written by our drummer. It had the deathless phrase "The freshest thing to come out of Reading since...."

Which would have been fine, but he'd attributed it to "a local paper".

Which again would have been OK, but it's not a phrase you would ever use about a Madness/Ska covers band.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

(kate: Was that pic way too big? Sorry)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

No, the pic was fine, I got tons of space in my yahoo account. It was adorable! Thanks for sending it!

― Danger Whore (kate), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah the guys in the band are great writers who are very witty...but when it comes to writing about--or promoting--themselves they tend to hold back for fear of feeling like assholes. i've been friends with them for a long time and so they weren't at all hesitant to let me help them out.

i think if you're an artist who either doesn't need a babysitter, or is P.R.-saavy you don't need a manager. but for everyone else, it would help to have one...

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Screw getting a manager, can I have a babysitter, please?

― Danger Whore (kate), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

at a certain point, it becomes difficult to simultaneously practice, play shows, write music, field constant requests from your publicist, haggle with your lawyer, figure out how to get a free pair of the shoes you wore at last week's shoot, and provide 12 different pdf files of design and copy to your label at a moment's request. at this point, a manager is useful.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, exactly. We reached that point in early 2003, and in the end, the band member who had been all "we don't need a manager! I can handle it all!" up and quit. So go figure.

Or maybe she was just sick of babysitting me... ;-)

― Danger Whore (kate), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i looked at all of my white hair this morning. it was depressing. i wonder if i can bill for my coloring expenses, under some sort of emotional distress clause.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"business attire?"

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Before hiring a lawyer or sound guy*, the most important things you can do are network for the band, help them get shows, get a CD (no one even has cassette decks anymore) to sell at shows and use as a demo, and mostly have them PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE so they get decent enough to need a lawyer or sound guy.

*By the way, the funniest thing in the world was when bands came and played at this club called the Gold Dollar in Detroit which held MAYBE 100 people and a SHITTY PA and they had not only their own sound guy but also stagehands to set up stuff on stage. I won't say the name of the band but their initials were BRMC.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and that sucks about the gray, Lauren!!! Definitely seems like a business expense if there ever was one!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, not to defend that band or anything, but the shittier the PA and the sound system, the more important it is that you bring your sound guy if you don't want to sound like mud.

We took our own soundguy to... I'm trying to think of the smallest venue we ever played... probably Palmers Bar in Brighton!

The worse the equipment, the more the need for a good soundman!

― Danger Whore (kate), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

HA! the BRMC came to the Elbow Room in Ypsilanti, and played for about 12 people after the guys in Paik bored the hell out of the roomful of rockabilly folks there for an earlier act.

of course, this was before i did sound there, but...

― Lt. Kingfish Del Pickles (Kingfish), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I've found that one of the things a manager should do is ensure that the band's lead singer goes out to all of the local bars frequented by music scene types, make friends with the bartenders/door people/owners/promoters, and spend assloads of money on free drinks for those people and every member of another band said lead singer can possibly meet. At that point, the manager doesn't even have to work at booking local shows, and can sit back and watch them roll in.

― webcrack (music=crack), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahahaha!

if only that were possible.

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

also, to ensure that the bandmembers aren't assholes.

i come to find out that asshole bands have asshole fans.

― Lt. Kingfish Del Pickles (Kingfish), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

what is your opinion of Radio Promotion companies like Planetary or AAM? is it worth the money?

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Based on my experiences as a college radio music director, I would think that one of those radio promo companies could be worth it if they had a good reputation. I used to give stuff from AAM at least a cursory listen, because the stuff they distributed at least wasn't usually horribly embarassing, even at worst. But of course, it can work the other way round as well.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

if you received a CD directly from an artist and not a distributor--what were the chances of you giving it a listen?

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, we actually listened to almost everything we received, at least for a few seconds, but I think that's pretty rare for college radio these days. Honestly, a lot of it depended on stuff that shouldn't really matter but does: horrible packaging/cover design or annoying shit like glitter in the mailing package resulted in a lot of nonplaylisted cds.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

no, that makes sense. I used to work at a magazine and currently book parties--sometimes i have a similar attitude (if i'm overwhelmed with demos). i'm confident that our packaging and one-sheet will be presentable (we don't have the cash to go nuts, but i at least know how to avoid annoying my audience)....but i don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot by not using one of these services if it is worth the money they charge.

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

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