One week vacation?

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What's all your take on this?

So I took a new job. The salary was agreed upon, I learned of the health coverage, etc, and that there was "paid time off."

I take the job and am given an employee handbook. It explains that new employees accrue time off, and are entitled to "one week per year." After three years of employment, you graduate to two weeks per year.

At the interview, I didn't even think to question that the vacation was two weeks a year... I took it for granted. That seems the rock bottom minimum these days for a fulltime office job in the US. (Yes, I know you Australians take 8 months off or whatever, but it's a little different here.)

So infrequently do I get to use this word properly, but ONE WEEK A YEAR sounds downright "Dickensian," or am I mistaken and being a spoiled snot? (This is a wealthy, profitable company, BTW.)

― andy, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

One week? The hell? What kind of ripoff is that? Fuck 'em.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Sarah's job has something like this, but they are idiots.

― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

What about sick days?

― Doobie Keebler (Charles McCain), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I get no weeks. So there. I've taken like 5 days off since May/01. Kill me please.

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, one week is pretty poor.

― jushinthunderliger (deangulberry), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

That's ridiculous. You crazy Americans.

However, my stance on this has softened a bit since someone said that in US, it's often easy to take unpaid leave. Seeing as you tend to get paid more overall, if you're allowed to a couple more unpaid weeks, it doesn't really seem like much to moan about.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah. I get 1 week my first year, 1 week my second year, possibly 2 weeks my 3rd year, but they retain the right to change that at the last minute. A bunch of my coworkers only had 1 week their 3rd year because of some technicality on their start dates. One woman had already PAID for tickets and a hotel room over Christmas and had to lose money on it and come to work instead.

I have a coworker who was supposed to retire this year but LAST YEAR they decided to change the retirement age and upped it by three years!!

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

sounds pretty normal to me.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

um, xpost

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I only get one week of "Vacation time" but I also get four "personal days" and sick leave. And I accrue another sick day every two weeks or so and another vacation day every three. I spend half my time at work completely wasting time on the interweb, so who am I to complain?

― Trip Maker (Sean Witzman), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

still it's bullshit because 2 weeks is the minimun standard.

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

that is fucked, even my wife's place of work gives 10 days (which is way too few). one week? what the hell????

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

That sucks. I thought my job was a little tight with the vacation. It's a weird system where I earn a little under 1 vacation day/month, so it adds up to somewhere around 10-12 days per year. We also get half a sick day per month, which is just as good as vacation.

Find out what other people do to get around it, i.e. using sick days, etc.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Andy, what's the accrual rate?

― jushinthunderliger (deangulberry), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't get sick days or personal days. I do play around on the web but I don't feel so bad about that. I still get my work done.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

This whole thing of quotas of sick days is completely ridiculous. Either you're ill or you're not. If you're not, you don't get the day off. If you are, you do.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Blimey! I'll be on 27 days next year.

What a rough deal, I dunno what to say, one week totally sucks :(

I'd be willing to get paid less if it meant more time off.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think this is weird. I just started a new job yesterday, and I have two weeks but thought it to be generous. The only thing that seems unfair is having to wait until your third year to get the extra week. A first year with one week and a second year with two weeks sounds about right to me. (I'm pretty sure this is what my old job was like, but I don't remember.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

They canceled a fair bit of my vacations last year so I get 26 days this year. Plus I'm cashing in on a 'Moving Day' in the near future.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but it's to discourage people from abusing it when they're totally healthy, like we obviously do.

(x-post)

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

In my last place of work (where I was quite ill a lot last year and had to take a couple of days off here and there) you were only allowed three periods of sick time in a year. If a fourth incidence of being sick occurred within the calendar year, tough shit, you didn't get paid. It was supposed to discourage people from taking sickies, but even with a doctors line, I still couldn't convince them to pay me as I was genuinely unable to go to work and not just skiving.

(xpost)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Ailsa, is that not illegal to do based on being an unreasonable clause unworkable in law?

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

However, my stance on this has softened a bit since someone said that in US, it's often easy to take unpaid leave.

Yes, it's called quitting. Seriously, depending on the job, it's not a very easy thing to do.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and while they do have 401(k), there's no employer match! What's the point then, I might as well head down to Bay Meadows and drop it on a filly in the 3rd.

― andy, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Look Americans, stop fooling yourselves. You should all be RIOTING at the lack of vacation time you are given at your jobs. Stop being so fucking passive.

Andy, this is not fair, period.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, it's called quitting. Seriously, depending on the job, it's not a very easy thing to do.

Well in that case, you are all nuts and should move to Canada after all. Or just move jobs a lot.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I technically only have a week, but I have one of those jobs where you accrue time off as you work, so you actually "earn" vacation hours quite quickly. By January I'll have earned a week off, and I will have only worked here 3 months.

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

How much does the rest of the world get?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

My first job out of college I got 25 days a year, so 5 weeks. I think 4 weeks is pretty standard in the UK.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I get five weeks, except I didn't use it all last year, so have a total of seven weeks for this year (Oct-Sep, as I work in a uni). We also close down for a while at Christmas and Easter, and those extra days (six a year, it usually is) are free bonus holidays. I'm unaware of any specific limits on sick time - I've missed about three months this year, for reasons discussed elsewhere, and I've been fully paid for all of that, and it doesn't affect my holiday allocation.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

B-b-b-but if we're all laying around in the sun or visiting art museums, the Chinese will sneak up and steal our worldwide economic dominance! You wouldn't want the see Mao on your Happy Meal, would you?

― andy, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

A happy worker is a productive worker.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

A friend of mine had a job where he got something like 3 days of vacation the first year, which grew to 5 days the 2nd year, and that was that. Then they changed it so after 5 years you would get 10 days' vacation but you would no longer get any sick days.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Needless to say after three years there he finally found the balls to quit!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Where did he find them?

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I think his girlfriend had to lend him some, I'm not sure.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

It IS bullshit and I AM outraged, but American employers have their employees by the balls, so whatchya gonna do? Riot? Okay, by the time I get back from rioting there's already going to be a new guy sitting at my desk.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, duh. But it worked nearly 100 years ago, it could work again today.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

yes we do not get to stay the dominant economic power and get to own your asses by taking three weeks of vacation a year and paid sick time! we'd be no better than swarthy foreigners if we did that.

no employer-match on the 401k: my last employer (w@[email protected]) did this bullshit. there was some arcane reasoning behind it that had to do with maximum contributions and the ability to take loans on it though, meaning they'd rather their employees take loans and go into debt to themselves than be more generous and perhaps minimize the necessity to take the loans in the first place.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

My horrible old job was exactly like that! I'm so glad to be out of there. Only a week off is pretty terrible, but there are places with even worse situations than that.

― Leon the Fratboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I get four weeks. I used to get a lot more in my last job.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

listen, McDonalds may not be ubergenerous with time off, but you get to eat fries every damn day, so what are you complaining about?

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I should point out that my friend was working a somewhat professional job (he was a draftsman at a firm that made children's playground equipment).

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

FOUR WEEKS? *faints*

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Andy,

This is very disheartening. If anything could be gleaned from this experience, it is to negotiate benefits PRIOR to accepting a job. I have done this a few times (eg, "I'm very excited about this job offer except I've already planned a 2 week vacation in the month after next...") to satisfactory results.

Does this mean that I can gossip about your old boss with you now? ;-D (just kidding, she is my old buddy though).

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I want to go back to working in an artsy movie theatre. I only got minimum wage and no vacation or sick days or anything, but FREE MOVIES! FREE COKE! FREE POPCORN!

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Ailsa, is that not illegal to do based on being an unreasonable clause unworkable in law?

suzy, I have no idea if that's illegal but it was in my contract and anyway it wasn't the worst thing that happened to me there that year, long story, wouldn't have wasted the effort of contesting it for a couple of days pay. I just quit instead (thereby losing the redundancy package that would have *obviously entirely coincidentally* come my way had I not quit two days before my post was made redundant).

Anyway, I now get 20 days annual leave but have to save 3 days up to take at Christmas as the office is shut. Which is a bit sucky, but the job is like a zillion times better, so I don't care.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

we do the "accrue vacation days" thing at PSU. It's nice.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i get almost a full day accrued every two weeks. I guess this means I could take a day off every two weeks if only they'd fucking let me

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 8 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

if only the democrats spoke up more for workers rights

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

all they care about are those GAYS getting married! they are out of touch with the common man!

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

We also get more bank holidays than you, I think, though not as many as the rest of Europe. The TUC is campaigning for two more at the moment.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't phantom 25 days vacation. That just doesn't exist in the USA. In fact, even if I'm gone a single day it seems I come back up to my ears in work - in some places, if you are gone, someone else does your job. In the US, when you are gone, NO ONE DOES YOUR WORK and you're still held responsible for it. This is why no one takes a holiday. (This is probably untrue in some cases, but every job I've ever had no one has been around to cover for me)

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't be afraid, America. Take a holiday!

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

It's what life is for!

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

but you have to get a job where you don't actually do anything, like 95% of the people on ILX! then it doesn't matter! (xpost)

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

45 regional offices are depending on me right now!

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

And yet here I am, smooshing my little fists on this keyboard: susfbfuisvjkbfhbguisrseui[bgudv sdhuvgiubgs

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't phantom 25 days vacation.

Awesome.

― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Although I am a little annoyed that since I'm the new person, I get to hang around every single day around the holidays because everyone else is getting the hell outta dodge. OH WELL, BROWNIE POINTS OR WHATEVS

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Mandee is completely OTM. When I miss a day of work, all hell breaks loose. The week before last I went downtown one day to a training seminar. The company paid for the training as it is job-related (for me and two coworkers) and paid us for a regular work day. But then when I got back the next day to 30+ work emails and a stuffed in box and all these fires to put out, the VP was like, "See what happens when you miss a day of work, Sarah?" God forbid I take actual vacation days. That was a mandatory work trip.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I am working up until the holidays, but the maintenance dude is bring in his Playstation and GTA San Andreas so it should be fun (if my boss doesn't find out)!

― Leon the Fratboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, Thursday and Friday I am going offsite for training and I fear my inbox when I return on Monday.

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Some of my coworkers have been with this company over 20 years. They hate to take time off because they can't think of anything fun to do. When they do take time off, they just spend the day at home cleaning or running errands. Lately, they've all been groaning, "Oh, I still have 10 days I need to take off before hte end of the year. I don't know WHEN I'll do that." It's hard to be full of respect and admiration when I hear things like that.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Sarah is OTM about Mandee being OTM. If I took a week off (which I'll have to in June for the gigs in Switzerland), the rest of my team will have to pick up the slack and then they will all hate me forever.

Actually, a big vacation like that can be planned for, but it's almost worse if I take an impromptu day off.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

At my last job, my officemate took two week's vacation leaving no instruction nor any way of getting a hold of her, and no passwords to her e-mail or anything. I was given the responsibility of covering for her... which was COMPLETELY unfair because we usually had split up the duties between the office. I nearly died that week.

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

What about taking a leave of absence or a sabbatical after putting in a few weeks?

― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously though, I think it stinks, and I would really have second thoughts about the job if this happened to me.

― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Take a holiday, go anywhere in the world: the Seychelles, Peking, Vancouver, Patagonia... and in exactly ten minutes a German or Australian will walk by in a Speedo. You can set your watch by it.

― andy, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Pretty much every job I've had has a standard 4 weeks (20 working days) paid holiday leave, plus 5-8 days sick leave (though you have to show med certificates if you have more than one day in a row off, or they can dock pay depending on the company.

On top of that we have quite a few public hols - xmas day, boxing day, easter (2 days), labor day, and daft ones like Melb cup and the Queen's birthday that isnt even on her birthday.

We're Australian. We work when we bloody well feel like it mate. Siddown and 'ave a beer willya.

(seriously though, having said all this, many of my friends in IT and the law and suchlike work 12 hour days for no overtime as we dont have a real union for IT workers, and a lot never get to take their holidays as they're too busy).

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

20 days is the utter minimum for permanent staff in the UK. I've never had less than 23, and have 25 now. None of this restricted number of sick days nonsense, either, and I only have to get a doctors certificate if I have more than five ill days in a row. You Americans need to get yourself a decent labour movement, pronto.

― RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

We have a massive labor movement, but their influence is waning, especially with the loss of manufacturing and the growth of Walmart-type jobs... work 39.9 hrs a week, $7.50 a hr, no healthcare, no nothing. The Teamsters will still bust some heads when it comes up, though. (Of course, the American Labor movement is notoriously corrupt as well.)

― andy, Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Perhaps they could join the E.U.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it because I have worked for two big American companies that I keep getting shafted with regard to sick time and annual leave?

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, it is actually.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I quit then! (I don't, really, but are you serious? Can they take their shitty restricted sick day policies and impose them abroad? Because RickyT's post seems to imply that it's not the done thing in the UK and I am especially ignorant about my rights at work and just take what is thrown at me)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think you're alone, ailsa.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

A week's leave is insane. Seriously.

I work in a UK university and get 26 days plus the period between Christmas & New Year when the place is closed.

Having said that... for the last three years, I've averaged 10-11 hour days Mon-Fri, plus maybe another 4-5 hours over a weekend, and frankly ludicrous amounts of travel to meetings in the UK and elsewhere not counted in that. No-one covers for me in the office when I am on the road, so with ubiquitous connectivity, increasingly the expectation is that I'll still do the firefighting via email on top of whatever I'm doing at the time. :-(

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I need a vacation. Actually I'm too poor to go on vacation.

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't suggest I was alone, alba. I just wondered if my old contract of employment was acceptable, not that I can do anything about it, but it would be nice to know for future reference.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't, really, but are you serious? Can they take their shitty restricted sick day policies and impose them abroad?

Yes, Ailsa. I have a few friends who work for American companies in London and they have some shitty employment policies. But they get Thanksgiving off so yay!

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

University staff traditionally get especially generous leave. Does that not apply in the US too? What about schoolteachers? They must be especially envied in America.

In my last job (national newspaper) I got about 25 days leave plus public holidays, plus in return for opting to not have a lunchbreak longer than 15 minutes (though no one minded if you took a full hour quite often anyway) I got another day off every fortnight. Which adds up to about 50 days, I guess. It was a bit ridiculous, to be honest.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

What is this "lunchbreak" of which you speak?

;-)

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I worked at an art school here and i had to take xmas and easter off unpaid. :(

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't get Thanksgiving off in four years! I didn't get the Scottish bank holiday either (2nd January) because the head office was in England and didn't get a holiday so why should we, and had to work whatever the English bank holiday that they get instead of 2nd January (do they get two in May or something, or was it the one at the start of August) because my office was in Scotland so why should we get a day off when the rest of Scotland was working. I think they were a bit selective. Not that it mattered because I used to spend every frigging weekend in there and stay on late unpaid. I'm glad I don't work there anymore.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Did you get any of the Fair days off, or is that a silly question?

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"What about schoolteachers? They must be especially envied in America..."

My stepmom is a teacher, and she has to by her student's supplies out of her own pocket! There are actually California school districts doing PAY CUTS for teachers, not raises. Not an enviable job, not at all.

― andy, Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

bwahahahaah (no)

xpost to alba

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I just meant for the annual leave, not anything else.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

So did I. I got 20 days annual leave, and the standard bank holidays except the 2nd January. And three sick days per year. Glasgow Fair Friday/Monday, no chance :)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

The Bureau of Labor Stastics is telling me that the average schoolteacher pay in America is $44,367, which seems not too bad.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry ailsa - the 'I just meant for the annual leave, not anything else' post was in reply to andy.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

In America, 44K won't buy you a tent in a park. We're all millionaires and we're all on TV.

― andy, Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, I thought you were insinuating that all Glaswegians got pissed and threw a sickie at the start of the Glasgow Fair :)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

School teachers generally get all summer off, don't they? I think times are a-changin, though.

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry andy - I'm so naive!

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah things are really screwy and dumb in the US, everyone has big houses and fancy cars but it's all just piles of debt, no one really owns anything outright. Except my parents. Who paid off their house within a year of purchasing it.

― planescapin' 'til dawn (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, we're all in debt too. Except me. I sit on my cash mountain, rue missed opportunities, and hope for the coming apocalypse.

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I sit on my cash mountain

Alba really truly is OTM (sorry, couldn't resist)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

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