countries like france have a successful and respected film industry but england doesnt - what are we doing wrong (again and again)?

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in short - after seeing some films in france last week and witnessing the sheer number of french productions on offer (im not sure which are more succesful there though - foreign or french films), im wondering why englands films are not only so shabby but so few. im hoping the recent comments by hugh grant about the pitiful nature and plentitude of twee rom-coms will cause the industry to rethink what it wants to see filed next to kevin and perry go large or notting hill in my local blockbuster. maybe the market boosted by the awful rom coms will create some room for more films like summer of love. then again it probably wont will it?

titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

We're collectively culturally suspicious of the high-brow and the govt doesn't give tax breaks to the film industry.

beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i find it so odd is that in my youth (i mean in the early to late 80's) all you heard, and i mean ALL you heard, endlessly was
that the industry had had it over here, was on it's knees, there was no money anywhere and such. nowadays things are meant to have picked up considerably on that front and yet the films *then* were ace much of the time, and now they almost all stink without exception.

so how's that work?

and when is PERFORMANCE coming out on dvd while we're at it?

piscesboy, Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

hows that work?

Trying to appeal to the world (i.e. USA) with domestic films.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought this was a Calum thread.

Ol' prune face (Mark C), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

audry toutou. mmmm

lukey (Lukey G), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Excuse me, England?

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Scotland does OK.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

trainspotting!

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

the acid house!

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

French cinema's fucking awful anyway

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

You get a false impression of French cinema in the UK. There is an awful lot of low-to-middlebrow schlock made here that never goes beyond French borders. And yet it is nonetheless true that France has a viable film industry, whereas the UK simply makes a few movies rather than having a fully-fledged industry. Part of the answer might be larger audiences and less resistance to home-grown product. But the main answer (like with everything else that is better in France) is government funding. There is a tax on cinema tickets that goes directly to funding films (there used to be in the UK too; it was called the Eady Levy and Thatcher got rid of it). Also, arthouse cinemas are substantially subsidised.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

you make up for it by having better TV

Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

does it help that hollywood/USA make less French speaking films, and so that helps French films get a local audience (less big budget competitions)?? this is a long shot maybe

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you allowed to speak French in the USA these days?

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Slap Her, She's Freedom


Are there any good French comedy/parody films ala Shaun Of The Dead? SOTD is, perhaps, the new quintessential Britcom flick - the anti-Curtis for the post Curtis generation.

mind you i saw Four Weddings for the first time properly the other night and it wasn't as bad as i feared it would be (except Grant and Mcdowell lacking chemistry really and not enough use of Scott-Thomas)

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

the perception of French cinema in the UK seems to be 'visually lavish, oft pretentious and totally playing on stereotypes but in an admirably confident way' - hence Amelie, TCOLC, La Haine all get the props, and i do like all three - but would be interesting to here of French films that are nothing like any of these yet all excellent.

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

to here of

this cold is really affecting my command of English today

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i have a friend who'd happily support an entire industry of british crime/gangster flicks if he could

kingfish (Kingfish), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Is 28 Days Later a 'British film'?

recent comments by hugh grant about the pitiful nature and plentitude of twee rom-coms

Well, by continuing to star in ALL of them, surely he's not helping?

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

im not sure which are more succesful there though - foreign or french films

american films, unquestionably. paris is something of a unique case, with all the independent theaters showing world films and french art films and older films and so on. but otherwise french screens are dominated by american films and a few french films--some of which are good, a lot of which are out of the whole "cinema du samedi-soir" genre tradition and are merely middling or worse.

the history of french film after world war i is mostly an occasional victory of prestige over profits--films successfully sold to elite audiences overseas, milestones in film style and so on. but the french film industry hasn't been what you might call healthy for a long, long time.

i don't know what the situation with protective tarifs and other state support is right now. certainly many of the art and even many of the auteur films get made thanks to a nexus of firms that get a lot of money from the cnc (national public/private body that coordinates french cinema production/distribution/education/etc./etc.). but the level of support (or "propping up") doesn't extend, i don't think, to laws saying that such-and-such percentage of french screens need to be filled with french movies (as in korea)--i think the situation is less coercive and more complex than that.

anyway that's all to say that while the french film industry may get much respect, it isn't necessarily very successful on purely commercial terms. then again what national cinemas are truly very successful on purely commercial terms nowadays? the american cinema, the indian cinema, the japanese cinema (to a diminished extent), the korean cinema (largely thanks to government quotas).... not even sure about hong kong right now.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 01:55 (twenty-one years ago)

now some french person can post to this thread and shatter my analysis in a million pieces.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

British cinema used to be good. I don't really mind - I couldn't care less if Britain had a thriving film industry, good films still get made somewhere.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 02:04 (twenty-one years ago)

britain has actually had a much harder time than french in one sense at least: they are an anglophone country and as such are even more susceptible to the colonization of hollywood. one answer to this was the "europeanization" of british film in the 1920s but i think the introduction of sound put something of a damper on that project.

anyway even though britain's film industry has, commercially speaking, usually been stronger than the french system (or at least, less chaotic), it's true that britain has historically had a much harder time developing marketable national cinema movements/styles. my impression is that the story of public/private apparati now firmly established in france don't exist to the same extent (to say the least) in britain. even the bfi is starting to move toward something resembling a profit model. the result is a situation where terence davies can't get funding for his new film. surely an indictment of the state of english film. but on the level of its producing art, not profits.

anyway there's a reason i'm not an anglophile....

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, the US keep stealing all our good actors like Sean Connery, Michael Caine, Catherine Zeta Jone...Hahahaha!

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i just read an old article from "variety" that is basically like a manifesto for world domination, and there was a part that read more or less, "...and we will steal all their great directors and actors and they will have no choice but to watch hollywood films."

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i just imagine some mabuse-like character drumming his fingers with glee on a marble desk

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

The conventional wisdon in america is that the rest of the world only likes our very stupidest movies, presumably because more subtle and sophisticated stuff doesn't survive translation. Hence the need for national film industries that can deliver "art" movies written and filmed in the native languages. Since you guy speak english too, there's probably a lot less need for home grown movies. You're also a lot closer to us culturally than France.

Chris H. (chrisherbert), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 03:32 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway there's a reason i'm not an anglophile....

:(

adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 03:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I don't think you're the reason, Adam.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 03:47 (twenty-one years ago)

there is the same need for "art" movies in all cosmopolitan cities of the world, for the same reasons.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 03:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Because twenty-something urban guys want to get laid?

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

and girls too!

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)


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