unrealistic (footballing) expectations?

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so, ever since greece won euro 2004 (well, particularly since then) a lot of footballing conversations i've had have been hindered by disagreements over the extent to which having technically gifted footballers matters (me generally being the one who thinks it does matter quite a lot - i mean, if we look through the history of major tournaments, greece and denmark are very much exceptions - international tournaments are usually won by brazils and italys and germanys stuffed dull of quality individual players). i dislike the attitude some irish fans have that we should only aim to qualify for tournaments, and just enjoy the party when we get there BUT i also dislike it when people refuse to acknowledge that the times we reached last 16's and quarter finals (with people like cascarino and kilbane in the side) were good performances (sure, its possible that we could have gone further, but those were still *good* performances - it's at this point that "but greece won a tournament" is usually invoked - but if greece had gone out in the semis that would still have been a *good* performance as well).

i guess it's different at club level - because if a manager has bad players, then its his job to bring good players in - then the question is more about the amount of *money* at his disposal.

i suppose it's difficult for me to pose a question to ilx here, because everyone supports different teams. i suppose i'll ask: what expectations do you realistically have for your preferred club and country? are you more or less demanding than your fellow supporters? To what extent should fans of teams with less playing resources / money demand to compete with teams of greater power/wealth?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 26 November 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd be interested to hear what the scottish and irish football fans expect of their team...

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 26 November 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"But Greece won Euro2004" is become the single most annoying catch-all line to trot out in any footballing debate, especially as they've been pretty poor since.

I had very high hopes for Spurs at the start of the season - a UEFA place and a cup win seemed realistic if only we could score a few more goals. Then we lost to Portsmouth, Santini left and it all went to shit.

England - Get through the group stages, then lose on penalties to the first decent team we meet. Obviously. One day we'll do a Germany 2002 and not meet anyone good until the final.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 26 November 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

"stuffed dull" is a great typo, Kilian.

(I'm sure most people know what I think about AFC Wimbledon by now - it's a kind of artifical position to be in, but one that's very enjoyable and fascinating all the same. I expect to win automatic promotion this season and next, then consolidate in the Conf south before launching a 5-year-plan attack on the Football league)

― He's allergic to lettuce (Mark C), Friday, 26 November 2004 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Bristol Rovers spent decades in the middle two divisions of the English league, and this is now the fourth season ever and in a row in the bottom division. We struggled the last three, but have had a decent start this time. I want us back in our customary home, despite it now being called League One.

England: Matt's about right, but by that point in the big tournaments it's a cup competition, and we aren't so much worse than the rest of the top teams that we have no chance of winning, so I always think we have a hope. I tend to regard last eight as about par, sort of satisfactory.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 26 November 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

One of these days Scotland will make it into the quarter finals at the World Cup. That will be awesome.

― everything, Friday, 26 November 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I still expect Scotland, believe it or not, to qualify for every World Cup and European championships. And once we get there, I always expect them to qualify for the second stage. However, when, as is inevitable, this doesn't happen, I don't get downhearted as I think I always expect them to simultaneously let me down and build my hopes up.

I think I'm more positive about Scotland than anyone I know, which is why all my friends laugh at me when I'm watching football.

With Celtic, I expect them to win every domestic game, but I'm getting better at dealing with defeats (I was out of practice at it, you see...). In Europe, I never used to expect anything until Martin O'Neill took over. That first year, I expected the second stage of the Champions League, and it still hurts that we never made it. The season of the UEFA Cup Final, I don't think I ever thought we'd keep going as far as we did until I was actually in Seville. In the stadium. Then it hit me "fuck, we can win this thing". Egg, meet face. Oh well.

It's heightened my expectations of what Celtic can achieve outside of the domestic game now though. Which is why it's doubly shit when we can only put one past nine men from the Ukraine. Five years ago I'd have taken that as a sign of progress, now it's a sign that we really aren't as good as I like to keep convincing myself we are.

― ailsa (ailsa), Friday, 26 November 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

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