S/D: Arthurian legend in film and literature

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You can blame this one on the fact that I watched cheeseball schlock masterpiece (and childhood favorite of mine) Sword of the Valiant twice in the past week.
I don't think we've had a big catch-all thread for this sort of thing, just "Excalibur C/D?" and the like.

So, S/D for Arthurian films and literature.
I'm interested to know if anyone here has read any of the pre-Malory stuff: Chretien de Troyes, Robert de Boron, the Vulgate cycle etc.

― It's hard to kill a horse with a flute (AaronHz), Saturday, 27 November 2004 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Search: The Waste Land.
The Fisher King.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

As for pre-Malory legend, I've read bits of lots of things - my old flatmate was doing a phd in medievel history, and he had loads of crap kicking around that I would flick through when bored. 'Read' would be putting it strongly - I'd just read a passage at random. If only I could call my old flatmate to thread, I'm sure he would have some interesting things to say...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Images/knights.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

S: Bresson: Lancelot Du Lac, Python obv.
D: Malory ugh ugh ugh. Most of Idylls Of The King (keep Merlin & Vivien, Guinevere, The Last Tournament), I

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

should have been:

S: Bresson: Lancelot Du Lac, Python obv.
D: Malory ugh ugh ugh. Most of Idylls Of The King (keep Merlin & Vivien, Guinevere, The Last Tournament), I <3 Tennyson but they're his least interesting work by miles. 'A Connecticut Yankee' also didn't do much for me, but I am English so probably took it personally. (Also I was like 11).

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

better

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually I like the plot of Malory's Balin, it is insane and full of dwarves. He is still the worst prose stylist of his millenium though.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

How about people like T.H. White and Marion Zimmer Bradley? Worth the trouble?

― It's hard to kill a horse with a flute (AaronHz), Saturday, 27 November 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

T.H. White should be burned at the stake or thrown into an oubliette or some other appropriate chivalric death for the abomination that is the Once And Future King. I'm quite fond of Marion Zimmer Bradley, despite the annoying wiccan slant, the feminist reading of the Arthurian cycle is quite interesting due to anthropological evidence that Celtic and iron age civilisation in Britain was matriarchal.

Who's the other woman I can't recall the name of? Crystal Caves, Hollow Hills and all that? I admit to having a soft spot for all that because it's all very Roman.

Malory, a nonsense. And all those French idiots whose only interest in the Arthurian cycle was discrediting the Saxon kingdoms of England after 1066. Give me Geoffrey of Monmouth or don't speak to me of Arthurian claptrap.

As to the films... Arthur? Historical? More like hysterical! The only thing they got right was the period. But you know, Saxons. Invading. From HADRIAN'S WALL?!?!? ARE YOU MAD?!?!? No one but an American could mix up Northumberland with Kent. Sigh.

― The Grain of Sand in Lambeth That Satan Cannot Find (kate), Saturday, 27 November 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

What about Thomas Berger's King Arthur book, Arthur Rex? He did a good job with the American West in Little Big Man.

― Ken L (Ken L), Saturday, 27 November 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Who's the other woman I can't recall the name of? Crystal Caves, Hollow Hills and all that?
Mary Stewart

― It's hard to kill a horse with a flute (AaronHz), Saturday, 27 November 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

no no i like t h white. also the berger version is the funniest thing ever.

― Maria (Maria), Saturday, 27 November 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

First Knight anyone?

― Wooden (Wooden), Saturday, 27 November 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

terrrrrible

― Maria (Maria), Saturday, 27 November 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

But it's got Richard Gere as Lancelot!

Yeah, you're totally right.

― Wooden (Wooden), Saturday, 27 November 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm interested to know if anyone here has read any of the pre-Malory stuff

I've read both History Of The Kings Of Britain, and 'Culhwch And Olwen' (which were both written down, at least, at around the same time, and give you utterly, utterly different takes on the subject)

(both in translation. I speak neither medieval Latin nor medieval Welsh)

The best modern literature I've read based on the early Welsh mythos - it's not really Arthurian but it *is* bloody good - is The Owl Service.

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 27 November 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Steinbeck wrote a Camelot novel, the name of which escapes me. I read it when I was maybe 11 or 12, I remember liking it. But then again I was a very stupid child.

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 27 November 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

T.H. White should be burned at the stake or thrown into an oubliette or some other appropriate chivalric death for the abomination that is the Once And Future King.

i rather like "the sword and the stone," though i never made it through any of the other books.

s: "a connecticut yankee in king arthur's court."
d: any movie/cartoon/parody version of same.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 27 November 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Chretian de Troyes is very hard going, and it's very French chivalric centered (yawn). The alliterative Arthur is fun, it's a pre-Geoffrey of Monmouth, I believe, rhyming couplet epic about killing. The Mabinogion is a good source for the Welsh parts of the Arthur legend.
Also search: Tolkien's translation of Gawain and the Green Knight, Wagner's operas (if you like that sort of thing).
(I really thought this was going to be a Masonic Kate thread)

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Sunday, 28 November 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I very much like the Once and Future King. Is this Mary Stewart the romance novelist we are talking about? Someone else wrote a book called the hollow hills, but I can't remember who possibly Jan Mark?

I personally am not crazy about Susan Cooper (the Dark is Rising) but I know others speak highly of her.

(I have only read childrens books about legends)

― isadora (isadora), Sunday, 28 November 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy

― It's hard to kill a horse with a flute (AaronHz), Sunday, 28 November 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

(unbelievably classic and um has merlin in:

ihttp://www.ipdb.org/images/4032/4032f1.jpg)

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 28 November 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry I was thinking of the Hollow Land by Jane Gardam also a good book. Obviously the Hollow Land is a bit of a thing - there are heaps of works with this title.

I think my sister may well very like this Mary Stewart work for xmas. thanks.

― isadora (isadora), Sunday, 28 November 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Mary Stewart's great - she may be romance but she knows a thing or two. Also the Mabinogion seconded.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 29 November 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

(I really thought this was going to be a Masonic Kate thread)

And I really *THAT* predictable?!?!?

If only William Blake had written an epic poem about Arthur, that would be the best thing ever. Ah well.

― The Grain of Sand in Lambeth That Satan Cannot Find (kate), Monday, 29 November 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

No, you're just interested in neat arcane topics of discussion, so I thought it would be you. Plus the Grail quest fits in quite nicely with Masonic legend. If Blake had written and *illustrated* an Arthur piece I think my heart might stop.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha, I was waiting until someone brought up the whole Arthurian/Grail/esoteric connection... For once, I just really didn't want to be the one to bring up Holy Blood/Holy Grail! ;-)

― The Grain of Sand in Lambeth That Satan Cannot Find (kate), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

fifteen years pass...

I love Chretien De Troyes, in the cycle as translated by Burton Raffel.

Is Malory bad? Slightly surprised at the lack of love.

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 October 2020 13:51 (five years ago)

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