SUPERBOWL XXXVII (I think) for us Brits you don't understand this Amercian Football at all

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I've decided to watch the Superbowl this year and get a load of friends round, but I haven't a clue who's doing well, who to look out for . . . . even HOW to watch the superbowl. I tried reading the REAL Superbowl thread, but it might as well have been written in Chinese for all I understood. Any tips?

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Drink. Eat Chips/Crisps. Play Cluedo.

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

learn chinese?

ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

My grasp of the rules are a little sketchy. You get 4 goes to get ten yards, right? And then the other team gets the ball, then rinse repeat until someone scores a touchdown or kicks it through the middle of the poles. Like Rugby League but stopping more often for a breather. Is this right? Or do I need to know anything else before I start enjoying it?

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

but yeah, get a nacho hat that contains dips!!

ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

What date is it on, I am planning to watch it too but it will require the following day off work

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

It's on Feb 6th on Channel 5. The week before there's a program on everyday telling you about the build up, but if its up to Channel 5s usual standard of programming I'd rather have some US-ILE pointers first,.

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks, yeah that's the basic rules alright, from what I've seen it's all about 'set plays' though and making the right one at the right time, and hoping the opposition doesn't predict your intentions. I think.

you might want to learn some of the terms used though.

ie the 4 'goes' = 'downs'
"1st down and 10" = first go, 10 yards to achieve.

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

This'll be a great thread! I am pretty good on the rules and play stuff because I've totally loved American Football since playing MADDEN on my megadrive in like 1994, but I know precisely no players because it's impossible/some effort to follow over here and the Jets are out :(

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Rotel Cheese Dip. ROTEL CHEESE DIP!!!!

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

The basic thing to watch for is that the plays are either "passing plays" (where the quarterback gets the ball and fat men protect him from people trying to kill him for as long as they can, then at the last minute he throws the ball to a guy who's been running upfield, if these work you must say "PEYTON MANNING AMAZING COMPUTER BRAIN" and if these fail you must say "FANCY DAN FANNYDANGLE PONCES") or "running plays" (where the quarterback hands it off to a fast strong guy who runs at/through the enemy team like in british bulldog and hopefully gains like eight or nine yeards; whether or not this works you must shout "THAT'S THE WAY TO PLAY FOOTBALL SOLID RUNNING GAME PHYSICAL NACHOS ETC")

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

This is on my birthday!

I know almost nothing about American football.

sgs (sgs), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

LOOK OUT FOR THE NAKED BOOTLEG AARRRGH

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i learnt all i know about american football from playing computer games too.

i think the idea is to move the ball forward at least 10 yards at a time, without losing the ball, and without being tackled more than 4 times. and also when you touchdown you don't have to be holding the ball when you cross the line, you have to instead throw it hard against the ground so that it bounces back up and you look wayyyy cool as the commentators go "touch dahhhhhhhhnnn!"

and you're allowed to throw the ball forwards. which makes for exciting "passing plays" indeed.

i wonder if it's actually possible to approach the game like you do rugby.

ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, I learnt all my AF knowledge from 'TV Sports Football' on the Amiga (tho a bit of a sod to play with one disk drive). That was around 1990, it encouraged me to start following the game for real but I gave up when Ch4 stopped showing the games. Tried to watch some of the late night ones over Christmas on Ch5.

Doesn't the order change dramatically every season, where teams that were rubbish the previous year are suddendly SuperBowl contenders the next year?

I have now booked the Monday 7 Feb off work!

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

and also when you touchdown you don't have to be holding the ball when you cross the line,

You've missed something crucial here. Possession of the ball is U&K.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

oh i mean like.. in rugby when the ball physically touches the floor you have to be holding it for it to count?? but when i watch american football it seems that you have to be holding the floor as you like walk over the line, but they didn't have to actually physically touch the ball on the floor? they always seem to just run over the line and then slam the ball on the ground whilst waving their arms about or have i missed them doing the actual touchdown??

ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I see what you're saying now. No, they don't have to touch the ball to the ground, just have possession of it when the ball crosses the plane of the goal line. (Yesterday Philly had a TD call reverse because the guy fumbled it a foot from the goal line. He fumbled it into the end zone, which meant that Minnesota got possession. I think that was the only lucky break they caught in the whole game, not that it mattered.)

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Doesn't the order change dramatically every season, where teams that were rubbish the previous year are suddendly SuperBowl contenders the next year?

Yeah! I think this is mainly because of the draft system, so if you come last one year you get first pick of the youngsters the next year. There might be an overall salary cap for all clubs too? So you can't fall behind like in soccer.

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

So if you had a guy standing in the end zone and the ball's thrown to him, is that a touchdown?

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Yup! You just need two feet (bodyparts?) touching the ground in the endzone, you get stuff where people are all "he dragged his driving foot on the floor!" etc

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"if you come last one year you get first pick of the youngsters the next year."

So if you look like you're finihsing last-but-one, can you throw games (or at least put out a weakened team) in order to finish last, just so you get 1st dibs on next year's hott new talent?

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Theoretically, yeah, but it would be a major PR disaster for the team and not really worth it. And if they're worst or second-worst in the league, it would be hard to claim that they were throwing games. They might just be sucking as hard in Week 17 as they were in 1-16. Also, draft value doesn't drop off so much on the rookies between the 1st and 2nd picks overall (imho).

In the '04 draft, San Diego had the first pick and wanted a horse that refused to pull the plow (Eli Manning), one of the variables that makes it really not worth it to sandbag. As someone who still has some ties to Ole Miss, I thought that Archie/Eli shit with SD and NY was shameful.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

They don't do any sort of lottery in the NFL draft? In the NBA, they have a system in place that makes it so the bottom teams in the league all have a pretty good shot at getting the #1 pick.

00ps, Monday, 17 January 2005 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Might someone explain the Eli Manning thing to me? Like, did he just refuse to sign? Is it only a gentleman's agreement that he actually had to?

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

How do they pick what teams play who in the Superbowl? Do teams in the AFL and NFL play everyone twice, then the winners of each league play each o ther in the superbowl, or is it slightly more complex than that?

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I say, gents (and ladies), will you be receiving the spiffing adverts for which this to do is renowned?

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Spiffing adverts? I shoudln't imagine so - channel 5 will have their own ideas about adverts no doubt.

What spiffing adverts?

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I only have a vague understanding of how football works, so this thread is helpful.

Also, the Superbowl is the day after my birthday, but I will be traveling back from New Orleans that day.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a playoff system where roughly the top 6 teams in the AFC and NFC play within their respective divisions, and the in single game eliminations proceed until the Super Bowl.

xpost -- do you happen to recall the famous Apple advert, old bean? I believe that is colloquially referred to as the 1984 ad, as that was both the temporal circumstance and theme. With the madam running with a sledgehammer and throwing it at a large screen.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

1984? I was only 5! Gimme a break!

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Johnney B -- During the regular season, each team plays 16 games, most of which are in their own league (AFC or NFC), including two games against each of the teams in their own division. (Each league has four divisions consisting of four teams each.) The playoffs are a tournament made up of the six best teams in each league: the four divisional champs plus two wild cards. In the first round, the two best teams in each league receive a bye, and the other four teams are matched up against each other. In the second round, the teams that had byes play the winners of the first round games. The third round is the league championship game, and the winners of that round advance to the Super Bowl.

I haven't followed football in years, though, so if I'm a bit off, someone please correct me.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

And regarding the adverts, since more people generally watch the Super Bowl than any other single TV program during the year, it's become the time for companies to roll out all of their new high-profile ads. (A single 30-second spot during the Super Bowl costs millions of dollars.)

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

actual knowledge of the game isn't that important to a good superbowl party. just pick a team to support and get excited when they get close to their goal posts.

far more important are the snacks and the free flow of beer.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I think this will be Super Bowl XXXIX, cause I know the Bears played in S.B. XX, and that was in 1986.

jaymc, didn't they revamp the divisions, and now there's 6 total?? Cause the Bears are in NFC North now, whereas they used to be in NFC Central. I dunno, maybe they just changed the name?

00ps, Monday, 17 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

A 30-second spot nowadays costs upwards of a $Few Million, since as American sporting events go, the SB has the largest concentration of viewers at a single time.

xpost -- Johnney, I was 4! No reason not to know it, chap! Except for being British, I suppose.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

There are 4 divisions in each conference now, where the two wild card teams face the two division winners w/ the worst records.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

So only six of the sixteen games in a regular season actually matter?

RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you mean the six games played against divisional opponents? No: the team's overall record over the 16 games is what counts first. However, if there are ties, then preference is given to the team with the better record against its own division.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. So results against teams not in a division count towards winning a division? That's a bit, er, weird!

RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

How are the wild cards chosen?

RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost) Not really!

The wild cards are the two teams with the best records in the league that aren't the winners of their division.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

oh wow i didn't even know they had more divisions now. grebt thread.

Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel kinda weird explaining all this, as I really don't even care about football at all! I think I just like explaining things.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, it's probably just that I've never come across it anywhere else. Still, it seems a bit forced having divisions for ranking if you don't stick to them for playing purposes. Why not just take the top six teams from the whole conference?

RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

This is just speculation, but I'm assuming that it's done that way (as it is with Major League Baseball and the NBA, which is why it seems perfectly normal to me) so as to be geographically representative. In all three of these sports, the divisions indicate geographical regions. Having divisional champions ensures that each league has at least one team from the east, the north, the south, and the west in the playoffs.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Gravel, it was a game of chicken. San Diego had the first pick and made it clear they were going to pick Eli. Eli (through his mouthpiece/father, former Ole Miss Rebels/New Orleans Saints star quarterback Archie Manning) made it equally clear that he wasn't playing for SD, and would sit out a year rather than sign with them. SD wasn't willing to risk getting absolutely nothing out of the top draft pick, so they made a trade deal with the NY Giants (Eli's preferred team). They made the draft pick and announced the trade about 30 minutes later.

Turned out okay for SD — they have their quarterback situation well in hand with a guy named Drew Brees who has a horrible hairy mole on his face but can play pretty well. Eli sucked hind tit until the last couple of games of the season, when he improved from bad to mediocre. I'm still not convinced he's going to be a great NFL quarterback, or even a good one.

RickyT, that's a darn good question, and there are a couple of teams with 10+ wins this season who are asking it after seeing St Louis and Minnesota (both 8-8) go to the playoffs.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

It's like that in all American sports. You play more games against teams in your division, but every game counts towards your overall record. It'd be pointless to play them if they didn't.

00ps, Monday, 17 January 2005 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Sometimes those geographical divisions were/are a joke. I remember when the Atlanta Braves were in the National League West Division.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Whatever you do, make sure to randomly interject "THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT!!!"

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

So who's in the running for the Superbowl this year? Are they up to the smi-finals or quarter-finals or whatever they call it?

Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Philladelphia?
Pittsburgh?

just educated guesses

Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

NFC:
Atlanta v Philly

AFC:
New England v Pittsburgh

(to be played this sunday)

Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Great thread for American non-football-fans.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, so who's gonna win those matches (Playoff Finals?) and get to the Superbowl? Who's good? WHat's the form? Idiots Guide to Current Football Power Struggles, please!

Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

NFC: Too close to call.
AFC: Too close to call.
Actually, I think Philly will beat Atlanta, but we're in for at least two really good games out of the last three.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone please explain why, strategically, a running play might be used instead of a passing play, and vice versa.

Does it go beyond the obvious, i.e.: running = small gains at low risk vs. passing = potentially large gains at high risk"?

Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Football is runtime, for the most part. Therefore there's the possibility of running the ball in order to run the clock down. If there's a small lead and not much time left in the game, the leading team can just run the ball; take their full 40 seconds on the play clock and etc. Assuming the team is able to put together a string of 1st downs, the losing team doesn't have a teardrop's chance in hell of winning. This is one of the things I don't like about football.

Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

That's really about the size of it. (xpost)

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's a good primer:

http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a/bl_football101.htm

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, there's a general series of things that teams try to do to score.

1st down -- run

2nd down -- run/pass depending on yardage needed and what formation the defense shows

3rd down -- run/pass as above

4th down -- punt/field goal/go for it (depeding on the yardage and feld position and time on the clock and the score)

Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

so who's gonna win

"Iggles"

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

For teams that are fairly confident about their ability to move the ball, 1st down is often a good time to spread the defense and throw it deep for a quick score, with the assumption that if it doesn't work out, you can get your 10 yards on the next two downs.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, you don't want your offense to be too predictable, so its important to use both running and passing plays. If you don't run the ball much (or if the running game isn't very good) then the defense will know when to expect a pass play and can adjust accordingly. A strong, balanced offense keeps the defense guessing.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

It's like chess, except every now and then you get to see Joe Theissman's leg snap!

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

The most conservative form of offense involves running straight up the middle, with many players assigned to block for the runner.

The "shotgun" offense is perhaps the least conservative form of offense: the formation involves many quick players who are talented receivers and few slow players who are talented blockers. The quarterback stands a few yards behind the line and the ball is thrown to him and not handed to him. This is a high risk/high reward style of offense.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

It can also lead to some spectacular sacks.

Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I recently rented a rugby video game and was completely baffled by it.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Running plays from the shotgun = classic.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

many xposts...

another reason why teams do run plays is to keep the defense guessing. If you never ever ran, the defense would set up to defend a pass every time(there's only a few designated pass receivers, so the defense could focus all its attention on them)

i don't know if it was made clear in Jimmy's post about time management that, unless the ball carrier goes out of bounds or an intended pass is not completed, the clock keeps running in between plays. That's why, if a team is behind and there's little time left in the game, you'll see the ball carrier do his best to make it out of bounds after he's gained as much as he thinks he'll be able to.

()()ps, Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

It can also lead to some spectacular sacks.

cf. Marc Bulger getting destroyed last week

Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

This is enlightening. Thanks all.

Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, so who's gonna win those matches (Playoff Finals?) and get to the Superbowl? Who's good? WHat's the form? Idiots Guide to Current Football Power Struggles, please!

The AFC match up is probably the better of the two: Pittsburgh Steelers have the best record in the NFL, yet New England Patriots are defending champs and have a coach widely acknowledged as a genius of defensive schemes and the game of football, in general. Pittsburgh beat New England in week 6 by a wide margin (34-20) and basically were winning handily from opening kick-off. However, New England was without its starting running back (Corey Dillon) and consequently ran 6 times for only 5 yards the whole game. (A normal game has an individual running back going for 100 yards or more.) To add more intrigue, New England has a star quarterback who has already one two Superbowls, while Pittsburgh has a rookie quarterback (who has won 14 straight games, mind) but who had a very shaky outing in his first playoff game last week, nearly losing to the inferior NY Jets.

In the other match up, the Philadelphia Eagles have been one of the three truly dominant teams this season (the others being New England and Pittsburgh) with an extremely athletic quarterback in Donovan McNabb and possibly the best receiver in the NFL in Terrell Owens (or T.O. as he's known colloquially). However - intrigue - T.O. was injured in the second to last game of the regular season and is sidelined for the remainder, making the Eagles shoddy at the receiver positions (you see, when you have a truly great receiver like TO he often will get double-teamed which inevitably leaves someone else open. So a great receiver will make his cohorts better). The Eagles have an amazing defense, as well, that is relentless in its pursuit of the opposing team's quarterback. Atlanta Falcons are the X-factor in these playoffs. They have one of the most gifted athletes around in their quarterback Michael Vick, who can run better and farther than most running backs in addition to his quarterbacking duties. I don't know too much else about Atlanta since they haven't gotten the same publicity or TV time as these other teams.

mcd (mcd), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh and the "Playoff Finals" are called the AFC Championship and the NFC Championship. The winners go to the Superbowl.

mcd (mcd), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Positional Analysis of the Falcons:

offense:

quarterback: Michael Vick is unlike any other quarterback in the NFL because he is one of the very fastest players in the game, while playing a position usually occupied by slow white guys. Additionally, despite his speed, he is actually quite strong, so he can take a good deal of punishment when he's hit. His arm is very strong, but he struggles with finesse plays. His long passes are usually more successful than his short passes, which is the opposite of the status quo.

running backs: warrick dunn is the fast guy, and tj duckett is the bruiser. over the course of the game, duckett will wear down the opposing defenders and dunn will fly around like a mosquito.

wide receivers: Peerless Price is the highest paid, although he has been a disappointment in Atlanta thus far. Brian Finneran and the rest are basically nobodies.

tight end: Alge Crumpler has one of the best names in all of sports. He is thought by many older football scribes to be the best tight end in the nfl. He is certainly the best combination of blocking skills and receiving skills at the position, and is Vick's primary target.

offensive line: the guys who protect the quarterback. this crew is largely unknown, but their coach is perhaps the most famous offensive line coach in the NFL, Alex Gibbs. Alex Gibbs is known as the architect of the Denver Broncos' run game, which has been excellent for nearly a decade under his watch. The Falcons had one of the best running attacks in all of football this year, due partly to Alex's blocking schemes and the talents of Vick, Dunn and Duckett.

defense:

defensive tackles: these are the guys in the middle who clog up the running lanes. Rod Coleman is an excellent DT; his fellow DT Eric Jasper I'm not familiar with.

defensive ends: these are the guys who attack the quarterback. Patrick Kerney is a fast, strong, and fearsome player. Brady Smith is rather nondescript.

linebackers: Keith Brooking is the star of this otherwise nondescript unit. These guys patrol the field and participate in both rushing defense and passing defense. They are largely freelancers, adapting their assignments based on whatever tricks the offense throws at them.

defensive backs: The Falcons biggest weakness. This unit is pretty nondescript, and struggles against strong passing offenses.

kickers: Feeley and Mohr are nothing special.

coach: Jim Mora is a rookie coach, and son of former coach Jim Mora. He notably installed a "west coast offense" in Atlanta, which emphasizes short passing, especially to the running backs and tight ends. Michael Vick has struggled in this system, as he has previously been given a less rigid system.

team: the falcons are perennial doormats, but michael vick is heralded as The Next Great NFL Player, the Michael Jordan of football. His performance has not yet matched his hype, but if he wins the super bowl this year, perhaps this is the beginning of big things. The Falcons were in the superbowl a few years ago, but were soundly defeated.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Crumpler is carrying on the great tight end tradition last seen in Wesley Walls (Super Bowl ring with SF, later reunited with Seifert in Carolina), the scary monster with baby-soft hands. But I'm just prejudiced towards those two players because I like Crumpler's name and Wesley once ran over me on the sidelines during a high school football game. He played both sides of the ball for Pontotoc High School, tailback and inside linebacker.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

If any of you folks new to the game are interested in pursuing it past the Super Bowl, here's ESPN's 2005 Draft section, with order of picks and who's projected to be taken. You'll come across the name Mel Kiper Jr., a walking lacquered hairdo who has actually managed to create a lucrative career out of predicting the draft.

Should I mention the case of Jon Gruden, where one team paid another boatloads of money and draft picks for a coach (not a player)? But that was a bit of a one-time thing, not the norm.

I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Remember, most of all, that 99% of people talking about football know almost nothing about it. (Including me, I know even less these days because I hate salary-cap football.) We pick up what we hear on ESPN and pretend to have learned playing high-school football.

Quarterbacks with suck-ass mobility (Byron "Go ahead, break the other leg I'll still play" Leftwich, for instance) can be a bit safer in the shotgun, less need to drop back and move in the pocket. But it's harder to run out of and there's always a chance for the spectacular sack or a screwed-up snap.

re: contracts - the NFL has only had legit free agency for about a decade. Right now, a player is drafted (or signed without being drafted) and the team has his rights for three years.
If his contract expires in that period, the team a) gets first crack at re-signing him b) can release him outright or c) can make a one-year offer at a set amount ('qualifying offer'). If the team makes that offer, other teams can try to sign the player for whatever amount, but they owe the original team draft-pick compensation based on the qualifying offer. The original team can also choose to match the other team's offer. After his third or fourth year, when a player's contract expires he's an unrestricted free agent and can sign with any team.

There are no guaranteed contracts, a player can be cut at any time (usually because his last-year salary is insane and hurting their cap space) voiding the rest of his contract. So most free agent signings are reliant upon big up-front signing bonuses (Michael Vick and Peyton Manning got insane money - like $14mln+ each) so the player has some financial security because it's assumed that he'll be cut at some point.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Remember, most of all, that 99% of people talking about football know almost nothing about it.

I don't know, considering his tv analyst skills, I'm pretty sure I know more about football than Michael Irvin. Maybe not about the nitty gritty of how a football player does his job or how schemes are developed/deployed, but in terms of value judgements, definitely. There are a whole lot of analysts who say really stupid things, constantly, which I can only chalk up to a lack of critical distance.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe not about the nitty gritty of how a football player does his job or how schemes are developed/deployed,
Well, those would both be pretty important, esp. the latter. Which is what I'm saying - none of us are about to take up coaching, and neither are the pundits and most of the former-jock analysts. We 'know' football filtered through media and what we can understand from seeing it on TV.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh no, I would make a pretty terrible coach, coordinator or player, that's for certain. But I'd make a pretty good sportswriter! :D

polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay I just went on the Channel 5 website and they say no coverage of the play offs or Superbowl this season????? THAT HAS RUINED MY WHOLE DAY!!!!!

Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 21 January 2005 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't ITV buy it? ITV2 have the playoff highlights...

IAGC, that link is great, thanks. I am gonna try and vaguely keep up with it all this year until jue-ish, when I can hopefully start actually following properly.

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 21 January 2005 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah yes, after much searching the ITV website I found a tiny news snippet hidden away which announces they have it at 10:35 on Sun Feb 6, and yes they also have the highlights of teh playoffs on monday night. thanks gravel.

Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 21 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Ste, did it say how long into the night it goes?

Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 21 January 2005 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

the playoff highlights are only on for 1 hour but it didn't say anything about the superbowl itself.

Ste (Fuzzy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Mark, expect about 3 hours.

Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

ITV2 for playoffs and ITV1 for Superbowl night. I have already managed to rope 2 people into my party. *blows party trumpet*

Ste (Fuzzy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

What kind of festive food are you serving your guests? It is said that avaocado sales skyrocket in the U.S. right before the SB because of all the guacamole that we eat during the game/party.

Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

crikey probly just stew (hotpot) we'll see. I'm hoping to convince one of my friends it's best to watch this around his house (he has nicer sofa and enjoys cooking). I will happily supply beer though.

Ste (Fuzzy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I repeat: ROTEL CHEESE DIP

Curious George Rides a Republican (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Also please note that the Budweiser I drank once in your country did not taste like the Budweiser I know and love/hate. The British are likely to hate either, but American Bud is crisp and light whereas the UK version was foul. This may have changed by now but I doubt it. I'm thinking you could maybe substitute with something like Heineken.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you people have like Cool Ranch Doritos or Tostitos?

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, it gets really fun when you make a lot of small bets. Who will score first. Who will get the first interception. What team will have the first injury. Which performer during the half-time show will have a wardrobe malfunction etc.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)

There are also total points bets and spreads that keep the game interesting even if there's a blowout.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)

it will be the patriots v. the eagles (i know that i originally predicted the steelers, but i changed my mind.)

if i am wrong, then you know not to believe any of my NFL predictions again :-)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 22 January 2005 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Remember, most of all, that 99% of people talking about football know almost nothing about it.

A lot of what I know about strategy and play calling (which isn't much) comes from playing games like Madden 2004 (older versions, actually). It is very hard to pick up this stuff by only watching the games on TV.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 22 January 2005 06:58 (twenty-one years ago)

so is everybody still excited?

Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 4 February 2005 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

About the luna picture?

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 4 February 2005 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

picture of the moon?

Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 4 February 2005 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)


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