― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)
you might want to learn some of the terms used though.
ie the 4 'goes' = 'downs'"1st down and 10" = first go, 10 yards to achieve.
― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)
I know almost nothing about American football.
― sgs (sgs), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)
i think the idea is to move the ball forward at least 10 yards at a time, without losing the ball, and without being tackled more than 4 times. and also when you touchdown you don't have to be holding the ball when you cross the line, you have to instead throw it hard against the ground so that it bounces back up and you look wayyyy cool as the commentators go "touch dahhhhhhhhnnn!"
and you're allowed to throw the ball forwards. which makes for exciting "passing plays" indeed.
i wonder if it's actually possible to approach the game like you do rugby.
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)
Doesn't the order change dramatically every season, where teams that were rubbish the previous year are suddendly SuperBowl contenders the next year?
I have now booked the Monday 7 Feb off work!
― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)
You've missed something crucial here. Possession of the ball is U&K.
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)
Yeah! I think this is mainly because of the draft system, so if you come last one year you get first pick of the youngsters the next year. There might be an overall salary cap for all clubs too? So you can't fall behind like in soccer.
― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)
So if you look like you're finihsing last-but-one, can you throw games (or at least put out a weakened team) in order to finish last, just so you get 1st dibs on next year's hott new talent?
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)
In the '04 draft, San Diego had the first pick and wanted a horse that refused to pull the plow (Eli Manning), one of the variables that makes it really not worth it to sandbag. As someone who still has some ties to Ole Miss, I thought that Archie/Eli shit with SD and NY was shameful.
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)
― 00ps, Monday, 17 January 2005 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)
― Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)
What spiffing adverts?
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)
Also, the Superbowl is the day after my birthday, but I will be traveling back from New Orleans that day.
― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)
xpost -- do you happen to recall the famous Apple advert, old bean? I believe that is colloquially referred to as the 1984 ad, as that was both the temporal circumstance and theme. With the madam running with a sledgehammer and throwing it at a large screen.
― Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)
I haven't followed football in years, though, so if I'm a bit off, someone please correct me.
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)
far more important are the snacks and the free flow of beer.
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)
jaymc, didn't they revamp the divisions, and now there's 6 total?? Cause the Bears are in NFC North now, whereas they used to be in NFC Central. I dunno, maybe they just changed the name?
― 00ps, Monday, 17 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)
xpost -- Johnney, I was 4! No reason not to know it, chap! Except for being British, I suppose.
― Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)
― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)
The wild cards are the two teams with the best records in the league that aren't the winners of their division.
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)
― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)
Turned out okay for SD — they have their quarterback situation well in hand with a guy named Drew Brees who has a horrible hairy mole on his face but can play pretty well. Eli sucked hind tit until the last couple of games of the season, when he improved from bad to mediocre. I'm still not convinced he's going to be a great NFL quarterback, or even a good one.
RickyT, that's a darn good question, and there are a couple of teams with 10+ wins this season who are asking it after seeing St Louis and Minnesota (both 8-8) go to the playoffs.
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)
― 00ps, Monday, 17 January 2005 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 17 January 2005 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)
just educated guesses
― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)
AFC:New England v Pittsburgh
(to be played this sunday)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)
Does it go beyond the obvious, i.e.: running = small gains at low risk vs. passing = potentially large gains at high risk"?
― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)
http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a/bl_football101.htm
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)
1st down -- run
2nd down -- run/pass depending on yardage needed and what formation the defense shows
3rd down -- run/pass as above
4th down -- punt/field goal/go for it (depeding on the yardage and feld position and time on the clock and the score)
― Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)
"Iggles"
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)
The "shotgun" offense is perhaps the least conservative form of offense: the formation involves many quick players who are talented receivers and few slow players who are talented blockers. The quarterback stands a few yards behind the line and the ball is thrown to him and not handed to him. This is a high risk/high reward style of offense.
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)
another reason why teams do run plays is to keep the defense guessing. If you never ever ran, the defense would set up to defend a pass every time(there's only a few designated pass receivers, so the defense could focus all its attention on them)
i don't know if it was made clear in Jimmy's post about time management that, unless the ball carrier goes out of bounds or an intended pass is not completed, the clock keeps running in between plays. That's why, if a team is behind and there's little time left in the game, you'll see the ball carrier do his best to make it out of bounds after he's gained as much as he thinks he'll be able to.
― ()()ps, Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)
cf. Marc Bulger getting destroyed last week
― Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)
The AFC match up is probably the better of the two: Pittsburgh Steelers have the best record in the NFL, yet New England Patriots are defending champs and have a coach widely acknowledged as a genius of defensive schemes and the game of football, in general. Pittsburgh beat New England in week 6 by a wide margin (34-20) and basically were winning handily from opening kick-off. However, New England was without its starting running back (Corey Dillon) and consequently ran 6 times for only 5 yards the whole game. (A normal game has an individual running back going for 100 yards or more.) To add more intrigue, New England has a star quarterback who has already one two Superbowls, while Pittsburgh has a rookie quarterback (who has won 14 straight games, mind) but who had a very shaky outing in his first playoff game last week, nearly losing to the inferior NY Jets.
In the other match up, the Philadelphia Eagles have been one of the three truly dominant teams this season (the others being New England and Pittsburgh) with an extremely athletic quarterback in Donovan McNabb and possibly the best receiver in the NFL in Terrell Owens (or T.O. as he's known colloquially). However - intrigue - T.O. was injured in the second to last game of the regular season and is sidelined for the remainder, making the Eagles shoddy at the receiver positions (you see, when you have a truly great receiver like TO he often will get double-teamed which inevitably leaves someone else open. So a great receiver will make his cohorts better). The Eagles have an amazing defense, as well, that is relentless in its pursuit of the opposing team's quarterback. Atlanta Falcons are the X-factor in these playoffs. They have one of the most gifted athletes around in their quarterback Michael Vick, who can run better and farther than most running backs in addition to his quarterbacking duties. I don't know too much else about Atlanta since they haven't gotten the same publicity or TV time as these other teams.
― mcd (mcd), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― mcd (mcd), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)
offense:
quarterback: Michael Vick is unlike any other quarterback in the NFL because he is one of the very fastest players in the game, while playing a position usually occupied by slow white guys. Additionally, despite his speed, he is actually quite strong, so he can take a good deal of punishment when he's hit. His arm is very strong, but he struggles with finesse plays. His long passes are usually more successful than his short passes, which is the opposite of the status quo.
running backs: warrick dunn is the fast guy, and tj duckett is the bruiser. over the course of the game, duckett will wear down the opposing defenders and dunn will fly around like a mosquito.
wide receivers: Peerless Price is the highest paid, although he has been a disappointment in Atlanta thus far. Brian Finneran and the rest are basically nobodies.
tight end: Alge Crumpler has one of the best names in all of sports. He is thought by many older football scribes to be the best tight end in the nfl. He is certainly the best combination of blocking skills and receiving skills at the position, and is Vick's primary target.
offensive line: the guys who protect the quarterback. this crew is largely unknown, but their coach is perhaps the most famous offensive line coach in the NFL, Alex Gibbs. Alex Gibbs is known as the architect of the Denver Broncos' run game, which has been excellent for nearly a decade under his watch. The Falcons had one of the best running attacks in all of football this year, due partly to Alex's blocking schemes and the talents of Vick, Dunn and Duckett.
defense:
defensive tackles: these are the guys in the middle who clog up the running lanes. Rod Coleman is an excellent DT; his fellow DT Eric Jasper I'm not familiar with.
defensive ends: these are the guys who attack the quarterback. Patrick Kerney is a fast, strong, and fearsome player. Brady Smith is rather nondescript.
linebackers: Keith Brooking is the star of this otherwise nondescript unit. These guys patrol the field and participate in both rushing defense and passing defense. They are largely freelancers, adapting their assignments based on whatever tricks the offense throws at them.
defensive backs: The Falcons biggest weakness. This unit is pretty nondescript, and struggles against strong passing offenses.
kickers: Feeley and Mohr are nothing special.
coach: Jim Mora is a rookie coach, and son of former coach Jim Mora. He notably installed a "west coast offense" in Atlanta, which emphasizes short passing, especially to the running backs and tight ends. Michael Vick has struggled in this system, as he has previously been given a less rigid system.
team: the falcons are perennial doormats, but michael vick is heralded as The Next Great NFL Player, the Michael Jordan of football. His performance has not yet matched his hype, but if he wins the super bowl this year, perhaps this is the beginning of big things. The Falcons were in the superbowl a few years ago, but were soundly defeated.
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)
Should I mention the case of Jon Gruden, where one team paid another boatloads of money and draft picks for a coach (not a player)? But that was a bit of a one-time thing, not the norm.
― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)
Quarterbacks with suck-ass mobility (Byron "Go ahead, break the other leg I'll still play" Leftwich, for instance) can be a bit safer in the shotgun, less need to drop back and move in the pocket. But it's harder to run out of and there's always a chance for the spectacular sack or a screwed-up snap.
re: contracts - the NFL has only had legit free agency for about a decade. Right now, a player is drafted (or signed without being drafted) and the team has his rights for three years. If his contract expires in that period, the team a) gets first crack at re-signing him b) can release him outright or c) can make a one-year offer at a set amount ('qualifying offer'). If the team makes that offer, other teams can try to sign the player for whatever amount, but they owe the original team draft-pick compensation based on the qualifying offer. The original team can also choose to match the other team's offer. After his third or fourth year, when a player's contract expires he's an unrestricted free agent and can sign with any team.
There are no guaranteed contracts, a player can be cut at any time (usually because his last-year salary is insane and hurting their cap space) voiding the rest of his contract. So most free agent signings are reliant upon big up-front signing bonuses (Michael Vick and Peyton Manning got insane money - like $14mln+ each) so the player has some financial security because it's assumed that he'll be cut at some point.
― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)
I don't know, considering his tv analyst skills, I'm pretty sure I know more about football than Michael Irvin. Maybe not about the nitty gritty of how a football player does his job or how schemes are developed/deployed, but in terms of value judgements, definitely. There are a whole lot of analysts who say really stupid things, constantly, which I can only chalk up to a lack of critical distance.
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 21 January 2005 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)
IAGC, that link is great, thanks. I am gonna try and vaguely keep up with it all this year until jue-ish, when I can hopefully start actually following properly.
― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 21 January 2005 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 21 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 21 January 2005 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)
― Curious George Rides a Republican (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 22 January 2005 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 22 January 2005 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)
if i am wrong, then you know not to believe any of my NFL predictions again :-)
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 22 January 2005 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)
A lot of what I know about strategy and play calling (which isn't much) comes from playing games like Madden 2004 (older versions, actually). It is very hard to pick up this stuff by only watching the games on TV.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 22 January 2005 06:58 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 4 February 2005 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 4 February 2005 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 4 February 2005 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)