PEOPLE WHO SUCK: job recruiters (do not read if you are a recruiter who sucks)

on the point, recruiters suck completely. i don't understand why people use them anymore, esp. in tech and given donut's point re: employers' market. my company just got burned by one (too long of a story) and they are going right back to 'em again for another. guh. hello! this is like $8-10,000 you're tossing away not once, but twice. i guess if we had an HR person who came in more than 3x/week, maybe that'd help...

also, my office mate (who was hired like 4 months ago via a recruiter and who doesn't suck) got a call from the recruiter who placed him for another position. office mate was like, "uh, you already got me a job." and the recruiter was all like, "oh, that's right! just checking in to see how it's going!" parasite.

fuck you, buddy. i'm not going to lie about my interests or life EVEN if i need the money (badly). if someone isn't interested in hiring an employee who has a LIFE outside of work, then they should just hire fucking robots. BESIDES GUESS WHO WORKED A FLOOR ABOVE ME AT TEH BANK? l@ura c@ntrell. i doubt her superiors were upset because, you know, she had talents other than analyzing equity.

he THEN goes on to tell me about a story about "an american indian with long hair" who despite his impeccable qualifications can't get a job. HELLO DISCRIMINATION.

bah. people fucking suck sometimes.

-- hstencil (hstenc!...), July 8th, 2005.

Extremely fucking sad but true. I've had to go through the same thing. I mention that I took a month road trip after being laid off OVER THREE YEARS AGO, and I got asked by a few employers "Were you not interested in honing your skills for future employment opportunities during that time, instead?" after I had told him that I had taken the rest of the eleven months afterwards to do just that.

It's apparently a big secret to employers, but here's a hint.. interviewers are often incredibly shitty and stupid interviewers.

Wording it differently is key; a company will want a commitment and reassurance that you can keep one. Everyone eventually takes "time off" and people understand this-- if it is not, "oh I did some traveling" it should be framed on the opportunity not to be missed and the what-you-gained or why-you're-passionate about your experience.

Regardless, this kind of behavior is just messed, and I can see where it would piss you off.

I played down the fact that I make films when I interviewed here because I wanted to seem committed to a job that would then pay me money to do whatever I am interested in. Now they're more than happy to let me take long lunch breaks to get to the lab or half-days because I am shooting.

You don't owe employers/recruiters an explanation about personal life type of stuff, but if they insist on an explanation.. eh, it's like being a witness in mock trial, when someone would ask me a question beyond the scope of the facts we were given. It was an open invitation to MAKE SHIT UP that portrayed my character in the most positive light I possibly could.

i agree. one of the reasons the whole thing was distressing is not two seconds before i told the guy about travelling, i told him that i had been laid off. i didn't leave teh bank just to be managing a rock band, the touring thing just happened as an opportunity i felt i couldn't pass up (y'know, at worst a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity) before i went back to working in more "traditional" industries. the guy didn't really seem to bother to listen to me, anyway.

i don't agree that lying to make myself "look good" is that great, either. on a micro level, sure it only can benefit me, but i think we've had enough of making things "look good" in the business world lately, ie:

http://www.corante.com/mooreslore/archives/images/bernie%20ebbers%202.jpg

and i don't think any financial company needs or can afford less ethical employees right now.

what, he was doing michael jackson-type stuff too?

Fucking seconded.

Following a redundancy from a crap job, all this year I've been trying to break into a new industry and it's incredibly hard work. Consequently I've been out of work for a very long time. But recruiters and employers don't want to hear that you've been working your arse of to get your foot in the door of a proper career. They want to hear that you've been working. They want to hear LIES. Why? Because everyone else that's going for that same job is lying, and the one who gets it will be the one who told the best lies.

It's only recently I discovered that I've been unable to get work for this long because I've been honest with recruiters. A couple of weeks ago I stopped being truthful and started telling them what they want to hear, and suddenly they're all interested in me.

OMG

"i don't namedrop"

NB the recruiters on my contract are all really nice and definitely have lives outside of work, but then again I also work with them from the phonerview scheduling standpoint and not so much the headhunting standpoint.

Liars get caught.

do recruiters not understand that I can't take calls at the office? i'm turning my ringer off

recruiters always try the phone because they know you'll just delete the e-mail. I never get calls at my office though

One guy at my office had his office phone shut off because of recruiter calls. Then they started randomly calling other people in the office trying to get him.

recruiters always try the phone because they know you'll just delete the e-mail. I never get calls at my office though

-- El Tomboto, Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Lol I've already made contact with them like 30 times and have been on interviews

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Java/J2EE Engineer w/ TS/SCI - 120K to 150K Columbia MD
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Half my g-junk-mail.

Unfortunately, my experience shows that it is the hyperactive runt with poor social skills who calls at the least appropriate times who gets you the job because he's doing that to the employers as well. The nice guy who you wouldn't mind going for a beer with and knows how to use email just doesn't come through with the goods.

I have a follow up interview

ooh i hate recruiters/agencies. i had a bad experience a few years ago with an agency that didn't want me to walk out on a job where there was some clear sex-discrimination stuff going on, because the client was "too important" to them.

i've also come away with some really bad advice -- turns out stamping job candidates into a mold makes them exactly like everybody else, and in fact a lot of employers LIKE uniqueness and personality! and the ones that don't -- well, we're probably not a good match in the long run anyway.

I only get spammed with SQL Server jobs out in Hertfordshire or further for some reason, always from agencies I've never signed up with. I suppose maybe all the London jobs are easy enough to fill they don't need to randomly spam people.

So is there any site on the internet where 80% of the job listings are NOT a bait-and-switch for a recruiter?

Because I am working up a truly poisonous hatred for these lying, weaselly sacks of shit.

Not sure. HR depts at companies now don't want to deal with direct candidates, or if they do, they'll sit on your status for months after a good interview hoping you'll just go away.

On the slight plus side, some recruiters have improved.

Still lame that it's almost impossible to get hired directly on merit. (although that's always been naïve thinking)

So is there any site on the internet where 80% of the job listings are NOT a bait-and-switch for a recruiter?

my understanding is: they post these fake listings to get applicants to send resumes/references, for pretty much the sole purpose of gathering leads from the previous employers' contact information.

they're working for their clients (the companies they headhunt for), not you (the applicant).

Optimally, you'd think they would want to make everyone happy. And some do, I'm certain.

I feel like the difference between good and bad recruiters is the difference between accident and wrongful death lawyers and low-life ambulance chasers. At best, recruiters help match the right people with the right job. At worst, they catch people during what is a very difficult and painful process and try to make some scratch off them.

I'm just tired of all the lying. Why do they lie to me? To what end?

Ok, I am very encouraged by this recruiting company: http://www.instanttechnology.net/

I just got back from a sit-down with them, and I'm impressed with their people, their organization, and their no-bullshit approach. The first good sign was that when they called, they said, "Hi my name is (blah), and I'm a recruiter." Points for using that dirty word. Most recruiters know that people hate recruiters and think they are out to screw with them, so they make up euphemisms. The fact that they were up-front about it was the first sign that they are NOT out to screw me over.

not really had much experience with these dudes but one guy is putting me fwd for a few things lately, i feel like i've heard so many bad stories i keep assuming everything he does or says is a smokescreen for something else.

eg i went for an interview last friday, got called back on tuesday, and he told me it's me vs another guy, a guy who is his candidate also. he then rang this morning and said they're still deliberating, but they'd like to interview me for another more senior role, bigger money and stuff. he said they thought i might be more suited to that.

i find it all a bit weird...obv it's good to be told they want to interview me for another role, but i'm sort of conscious of being in the mix for a role way more above my abilities (and the job spec appears like it is to some extent) and losing out on the first role as a result. he says it won't affect my chances for the first role but i kinda find the whole thing a bit weird...

i guess it's partly cos i hear so many bad stories about recruiters...but also having someone else act as intermediary between the company and you does create some suspicion, like for all i know he's just telling them i don't want the first job so his other candidate gets it and then he can gamble on me getting the second one...

In my experience recruitment agents are as tricky as fuck, but I've never known one that's outright lied to an employer about what the candidate said re: the vacancy.

The reason being that agency lies tend to come out when the employer interviews the candidate, and agencies are always trying to set up a relationship where they are the sole agency with an employer.

So the agency isn't going to outright lie to the employer.

i guess i sort of wonder...if they're getting me in for this second role then really it seems like i am out of the running for the first one...

maybe, maybe not. it's true that a lot of that stuff is a bit out of your hands once there's an intermediary. try to see that as a positive, though, i.e. they're worrying about it so you don't have to.

like, at a certain point you have to trust that they know what they're doing.

I think it's unlikely you're out of the running for the first role because it's not in anyone's interests to waste an hour of their client's time interviewing you for a position you have no chance of getting.

i've done that interview tho you know? like i feel now they're putting me fwd for a tougher role it seems as if the first one has gone...if that makes sense. and the danger is i end up between the two. i can get the second role i think but it's a much longer shot, is a managerial position and i've no experience in some of the things they want...

i guess it's partly cos i hear so many bad stories about recruiters...but also having someone else act as intermediary between the company and you does create some suspicion, like for all i know he's just telling them i don't want the first job so his other candidate gets it and then he can gamble on me getting the second one...

Full disclosure, I work in this industry and a load of people involved in it are sharks but there are a lot that play a basically straight bat as well. It's more likely that the agency has been brought in because the client doesn't actually want/can't spend the time finding people themselves and they've instructed the agency to put forward 2-4 ppl, I doubt he's that invested in any one candidate getting the job over another, especially if the salary's fixed.

But if it's the client that want to see you for the more senior job then that's a good thing surely? It means they rate you higher than the other guy and they want to see if you have potential to do the bigger job. It's in the agency's interest as well because if they place both of you, they get more cash.

Basically, you need to be straight with the employer when you go into see them, don't say you're underqualified as they might see that as potential to grow into the role, but let them know that if the more senior one doesn't work out you're definitely still interested in the first job. Keep the employer in the conversation so they know where your head's at.

yeah largely it is a good thing, that's actually a good point about the employer, i can talk it through with them when i've interviewed for the second role.

Rule of thumb tends to be that the more junior the positions the agency handles, the shiftier they're likely to be with the candidates - they'll be a lot more careful about fucking about with senior level people who could be their next client. But if you're unsure about whether the guy's trustworthy then you don't want to be relying on Chinese whispers to get your message through to the employer.

I've no real reason not to trust him, I met him and I liked the guy to be honest. Just the natural distrust of the recruiter I guess, maybe totally unfair. One of the interviewers said he knows the recruiter and has worked with him before and he's a v good guy also.

never had any success using agencies, always managed to find work without them thankfully (tho not without going thru the horrible process of being cold-called, made to jump thru their hoops, never hearing back from them about applications or even interviews etc.) but you always think you should use them based on other peoples experiences (most developers i know get jobs thru them with relative ease).

Yeah all my jobs have been friend word-of-mouth (IT industry is suprisingly insular) but the job I'm in now I got via a recruiter, oddly enough. All well and good. Except for the six months afterward where they'd ring me and my boss on occasion asking "how is the job going" and "do you know anyone else you want to hire" - fuck off you sharks.

yeah I never really would use them, it's not really been necessary as all my work has been in BBC. but am going for some private sector jobs now as am sick of being fucked around and earning shit money, even within that though it just kinda happened by accident that I got in touch with this recruiter about one job and he arranged a meeting and stuff.

it helps a shit ton if you know someone already with (and liked by) the recruitment agency and they refer you. i just got my housemate a job by referring him to reed (after they'd told him there wasn't any work) and he was working within a couple of days.

big name recruitment agency who i was with before i got a permanent position were taking £15.50 an hour for me and paying me just over half of that. they also charged the company a month's wages to buy me from them which nearly cost me the job. i work for a charity, our staffing budgets are pretty tight.

he just called me back and said it's not really an interview for the more senior job, just a 30 min informal chat with a sort of pre-prepared task involved. i think i have a really good chance with that in mind. this job would be a major leap for me so let's hope so!

waiting on absolute confirmation but recruiter just called me to basically congratulate me on getting the more senior job. if it all comes through i'll be "editor", and earning way more than i've ever earned. get in!

GET IN! There's a pint waiting for you at that gig on Sunday.

hang on, which gig? sounds good all the same!

Eyepatch dude in Dalston? ISTR you're going.

i didn't get a ticket in the end but i may turn up nonetheless, i will let you know!

so if your most recent recruiter has good links to your employer, is it foolish to check in with him and ask him to keep an eye out for jobs for you? more speculatively than anything else... not looking for an instant exit.