Katrina and Rita: A US environmental policy watershed, let's watch

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With the latest Hurricane bearing down on the US coast and likely to hit Texas this weekend, with the attendant shut down in US oil refining capacity, are attitudes towards Climate Change going to change in the US? Is this going to be the Love Canal moment?

Admittedly it's a more complex bundle of issues and the solution isn't as simple as founding the EPA and Superfund.

The biggest barriers to this hurricane season having this effect is the fact that there is no clear scientific evidence that this current upswing in hurricane intensity is Climate Change related. (That warmer surface sea temperatures increase hurricane intensity, is beyond doubt. I suspect though that sustained high fuel prices might do more towards tackling the causes of climate change than any sustained scientific logic.

Anyway, let's watch together.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 22 September 2005 05:10 (twenty years ago)

rita's a mere brock berlin to katrina's ken dorsey

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 22 September 2005 05:17 (twenty years ago)

one of my friends was going on about if all the reports of global warming included "all those record lows we've been having"

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 22 September 2005 05:25 (twenty years ago)

The biggest barriers to this hurricane season having this effect is the fact that there is no clear scientific evidence that this current upswing in hurricane intensity is Climate Change related.

Exactly, end of story, lock thread.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 22 September 2005 05:27 (twenty years ago)

plus, let's see how much larger the call to drill in ANWR gets after this.

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 22 September 2005 05:28 (twenty years ago)

they'll have to deal with some looters first

http://www.svalbard-images.com/photos/polar-bear-004.jpg

― donut Get Behind Me Carbon Dioxide (donut), Thursday, 22 September 2005 06:27 (twenty years ago)

That there is no clear scientific evidence, points to the paucity of data pre-1950 rather than there being no link (or otherwise). The insticntive reaction of a majority of the scientific community is to link the two facts: hurricane intensity is linked to surface sea temperatures in the carribean, and that surface sea temperatures in the carribbean are rising due to a slow down in the gulf stream and north atlantic conveyor due to increased melting of the polar ice caps which in turnis caused by climate change.

It is not a huge leap of faith really.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 22 September 2005 06:46 (twenty years ago)

god hates our freedom.

― viborgu, Thursday, 22 September 2005 07:01 (twenty years ago)

The insticntive reaction of a majority of the scientific community is to link the two facts

what kinda cargo-cult dirt worshipper scientists are these?

― JKex (JKex), Thursday, 22 September 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

you'll note that people who think there may well be a link between climate change and worsening hurricane seasons don't get so abusive about their oppos.

― N_RQ, Thursday, 22 September 2005 09:30 (twenty years ago)

what kinda cargo-cult dirt worshipper scientists are these?

UK.gov's chief scientific advisor for one.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 22 September 2005 09:49 (twenty years ago)

As bad as this is, I can't help but think "God's coming for George".

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Thursday, 22 September 2005 09:57 (twenty years ago)

what's the 'love canal' moment ed?

[oh i can provide 'lady, if you have to ask' it's ok]

― N_RQ, Thursday, 22 September 2005 09:58 (twenty years ago)

Love canal, near the graet lakes, was a toxic waste tip that was created when a project to build a canal went titsup. Decades later it was built over and they built housing schools and the like on top of it. The after some heavy rains (sometime in the early 70s) the watse started seeping up through the group. It prompted the world first retroactive 'Polluter Pays' legislation and a Fund to ensure that the cleanup started before the recovery of funds from the polluter. A major milestone in enviromental protection legislation (and it came from the US!)

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 22 September 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

UK.gov's chief scientific advisor for one.

"Bunch of limey commies..."

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 22 September 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

Hurricanes are a direct punishment from Gaia for polluting her air.

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 22 September 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

The biggest barriers to this hurricane season having this effect is the fact that there is no clear scientific evidence that this current upswing in hurricane intensity is Climate Change related.

Seriously though, I don't think this is a barrier. But it's a matter of how people approach the subject -

Right: We've seen the damage high-intensity hurricanes can do. If we don't do something about climate change, our children and grandchildren will live in a world where they are much more commonplace.

Wrong: If Bush had signed Kyoto, we'd have reversed climate change and this never would have happened! Katrina and Rita are just the chickens coming home to roost!

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 22 September 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

didn't chris already start this thread?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 22 September 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

It is not a huge leap of faith really.

Actually it is, because the "evidence" isn't even remotely clear, and the so-called "instinctive reaction of the scientific community" that you refer to is nothing but speculation and guesswork.

Don't use science as a credibiliy crutch to back up your political agenda. There are plenty of scientifically-supported reasons to support environmental policy changes -- none of which have anything to do with hurricanes.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 22 September 2005 14:27 (twenty years ago)

didn't chris already start this thread?

Yes I did. Here please: Climate Instability + Current Political Situation = Ruin

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 22 September 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

plus that thread didn't feature brits gloating over americans dying

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 22 September 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

I hope I did not coming over as gloating, I'm chiefly interested in seeing how this plays out. There is a way for people to get positives, such as renewables, on the table by promoting them as 'energy security', I was hoping not to dwell on the immediate tragic consequences of the most recent hurricanes. However, i shall go and join the other thread.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 22 September 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

plus that thread didn't feature brits gloating over americans dying
-- j blount (jamesbloun...), September 22nd, 2005.

oh fuck's sake, give examples -- i guess you would have but OH NO THERE AREN'T ANY.

― N_RQ, Friday, 23 September 2005 07:20 (twenty years ago)

did anyone see Jon Snow grilling the representative of the industry's global warming denial wing on channel 4 news last night? he accepted that temperatures were rising, and that this was probably affecting the hurricane season, but spent most of his time simply denying that the scientists who suggested global warming was to blame had any authority whatsoever.

he was like, "yes, the waters are getting hotter, yes we are getting more hurricanes, yes there may be a link, but the scientists *we believe say our industry is not to blame."

― foxy boxer (stevie), Friday, 23 September 2005 09:08 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

http://www.salon.com/books/excerpt/2008/06/06/rove_katrina/index.html

― and what, Sunday, 8 June 2008 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

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